Oh hi, hello there, this is Let's talk about MIT's baby, and I am your host, live here with more of every correct person's favorite ancient Greek playwright Euripides.

Oh hi, hello there, this is Let's talk about MIT's baby, and I am your host, live here with more of every correct person's favorite ancient Greek playwright Euripides.

Is it possible to love an ancient writer like too much? If so, it's probably me and this guy truly, Like every time I think I've reached peak Euripides, I read another play and then he just like outdoes himself just one more time. It'll never stop until maybe I've read all of his plays. That's the only time. So today we are back with the second part of euripides Ion. The Ion is particularly interesting because, like I said last week, all the characters of the play are found in existing mythology before Euripides' play was written, but the details surrounding Apollo and this like missing identity, seemed to be only found in this play. That might mean he invented them, or it just may be that a source is lost, but a boy, is it fun to speculate? This is also true? Remember of his Medea. The most dramatic and famous plot point of Euripides' play is the moment when she kills her children, and this detail does not survive in a source from before the play, so Euripides, he liked to play with existing mythological characters and stories. He liked to make them bigger and better, more dramatic and mysterious. He liked to write realistic women, not idealized women, not some kind of ideal creature in the eyes of the Athenian men, but real, complex and convincing women. Even though this play is called the Ion, like it is Creusa who is stealing the show over me. And remember, this play features a traumatic story of sexual assault, so do take care. It makes it something to be cautious of. But it's also such a rare example of sexual assault by a god being taken seriously by the ancient author. It is a real trauma that is being examined. It is not just glossed over like a thing that always happens. And so I think it is just it's utterly invaluable, and this translation by Cecilia Leshnig has utterly it's it's bursting with righteous feminine rage, like both Euripities and Cecilia have done some incredible work here, and I'm honestly never getting over it. So where did we leave off? Last week? We were introduced to our places characters via a god's monologue. Hermes introduced us to the play and its setting, telling the audience about Creusa, the daughter of Erectheus, one of Athens's most famous mythological kings. Creusa was raped by Apollo near the Acropolis of Athens, at a place the Athenians call the Long Rocks. She became pregnant, as is always the case with gods and humans, and hid the birth from her father, and when the baby was born, she brought it to the same place where she had been assaulted and left the baby there to be exposed. Later, she married a man named Suthus. He wasn't an Athenian, which is a pretty big deal, and Athenian citizenship laws typically require the man to be Athenian in order for any children to qualify. Suthus and Creusa were together for years, but have remained childless, and eventually went in search of guidance from the oracle and a reminder because it comes up. Another name for Apollo is Loxius, particularly when referring to this like Delphic oracular Apollo. And there at the Temple to Apollo in Delphi, Creusa meets a temple attendant named Ion. What she and Ion don't know, but the audience and we do know is that he is her son by Apollo, brought there by the gods and raised at the temple. Creusa shares a little bit of her story with Ion, though she tells him that it happened to a friend of hers. She's there in Delphi to see if the oracle will share information about her child, whether he lives or died, and she encourages Ion to also look for his mother. There is so much kindness and empathy between them, this shared story of loss that is much more shared than they realize. This is episode two sixty one. Keeping the Secrets of Apollo Euripides is Ion, Part two. Creusa tells this temple attendant what happened to her friend, that she lay with Apollo and in secret bore his child. The attendant, who only Hermes has by now called Ion and not to his face, is incredulous. He doesn't want to believe that Apollo would have hurt a woman like that, that it must have been a lie that she came up with in her shame. Creusa insists it's the truth, and Ion asks her what happened after then? Like what happened to the baby. That's what Creusa is at the oracle to ask. Last she or rather her friend, knew the baby had been exposed in the very same place where the assault had happened, but she'd returned to where she'd left the baby and he was gone. There wasn't a speck of blood left behind. It was as though he disappeared, So now she's seeking answers whether he is even still alive. Like I said last week, one of the biggest thrills of a Greek play is not what secrets will be revealed. The audience always knows the truth right from the start, but instead how they're going to be revealed to the characters, and what will happen once the reveal has taken place. We all know Ion is Creus's son by Apollo, but they don't, and so we watch as they talk in circles, talking about each other, without realizing that is who they're speaking with. Ion wants to find his mother, Creusa wants to find her son. They just don't realize they already have, which is why the next question Ion asks is how long has it been? How old would the child be if he lived? Oh, she says he'd be about your age. And at this Ion is ready to find fault in Apollo. He tells Creusa, quote the god wrongs her to leave the mother in torment ever since, she says, the woman hasn't been able to have children, to which Ion says, quote, what if Phoebus took him and raised him in secret? What if Creusa's reply quote taking for himself the joy they should share is wrong?

Is it possible to love an ancient writer like too much? If so, it's probably me and this guy truly, Like every time I think I've reached peak Euripides, I read another play and then he just like outdoes himself just one more time. It'll never stop until maybe I've read all of his plays. That's the only time. So today we are back with the second part of euripides Ion. The Ion is particularly interesting because, like I said last week, all the characters of the play are found in existing mythology before Euripides' play was written, but the details surrounding Apollo and this like missing identity, seemed to be only found in this play. That might mean he invented them, or it just may be that a source is lost, but a boy, is it fun to speculate? This is also true? Remember of his Medea. The most dramatic and famous plot point of Euripides' play is the moment when she kills her children, and this detail does not survive in a source from before the play, so Euripides, he liked to play with existing mythological characters and stories. He liked to make them bigger and better, more dramatic and mysterious. He liked to write realistic women, not idealized women, not some kind of ideal creature in the eyes of the Athenian men, but real, complex and convincing women. Even though this play is called the Ion, like it is Creusa who is stealing the show over me. And remember, this play features a traumatic story of sexual assault, so do take care. It makes it something to be cautious of. But it's also such a rare example of sexual assault by a god being taken seriously by the ancient author. It is a real trauma that is being examined. It is not just glossed over like a thing that always happens. And so I think it is just it's utterly invaluable, and this translation by Cecilia Leshnig has utterly it's it's bursting with righteous feminine rage, like both Euripities and Cecilia have done some incredible work here, and I'm honestly never getting over it. So where did we leave off? Last week? We were introduced to our places characters via a god's monologue. Hermes introduced us to the play and its setting, telling the audience about Creusa, the daughter of Erectheus, one of Athens's most famous mythological kings. Creusa was raped by Apollo near the Acropolis of Athens, at a place the Athenians call the Long Rocks. She became pregnant, as is always the case with gods and humans, and hid the birth from her father, and when the baby was born, she brought it to the same place where she had been assaulted and left the baby there to be exposed. Later, she married a man named Suthus. He wasn't an Athenian, which is a pretty big deal, and Athenian citizenship laws typically require the man to be Athenian in order for any children to qualify. Suthus and Creusa were together for years, but have remained childless, and eventually went in search of guidance from the oracle and a reminder because it comes up. Another name for Apollo is Loxius, particularly when referring to this like Delphic oracular Apollo. And there at the Temple to Apollo in Delphi, Creusa meets a temple attendant named Ion. What she and Ion don't know, but the audience and we do know is that he is her son by Apollo, brought there by the gods and raised at the temple. Creusa shares a little bit of her story with Ion, though she tells him that it happened to a friend of hers. She's there in Delphi to see if the oracle will share information about her child, whether he lives or died, and she encourages Ion to also look for his mother. There is so much kindness and empathy between them, this shared story of loss that is much more shared than they realize. This is episode two sixty one. Keeping the Secrets of Apollo Euripides is Ion, Part two. Creusa tells this temple attendant what happened to her friend, that she lay with Apollo and in secret bore his child. The attendant, who only Hermes has by now called Ion and not to his face, is incredulous. He doesn't want to believe that Apollo would have hurt a woman like that, that it must have been a lie that she came up with in her shame. Creusa insists it's the truth, and Ion asks her what happened after then? Like what happened to the baby. That's what Creusa is at the oracle to ask. Last she or rather her friend, knew the baby had been exposed in the very same place where the assault had happened, but she'd returned to where she'd left the baby and he was gone. There wasn't a speck of blood left behind. It was as though he disappeared, So now she's seeking answers whether he is even still alive. Like I said last week, one of the biggest thrills of a Greek play is not what secrets will be revealed. The audience always knows the truth right from the start, but instead how they're going to be revealed to the characters, and what will happen once the reveal has taken place. We all know Ion is Creus's son by Apollo, but they don't, and so we watch as they talk in circles, talking about each other, without realizing that is who they're speaking with. Ion wants to find his mother, Creusa wants to find her son. They just don't realize they already have, which is why the next question Ion asks is how long has it been? How old would the child be if he lived? Oh, she says he'd be about your age. And at this Ion is ready to find fault in Apollo. He tells Creusa, quote the god wrongs her to leave the mother in torment ever since, she says, the woman hasn't been able to have children, to which Ion says, quote, what if Phoebus took him and raised him in secret? What if Creusa's reply quote taking for himself the joy they should share is wrong?

Oh?

Oh?

How I mentioned lately how much I love euripidies, Like, not only do we have this woman who is basically a princess of Athens, visiting the temple of Apollo alone and in secret from her husband and having to relive her trauma in doing so, but she's there as the explicit master of her enslaved attendance. Her husband is off somewhere, hasn't been heard from yet, and she shares not only the story of her trauma with Ion this attendant, but backs herself at every turn. When Ion wonders if the woman is lying, Creusa insists. And when Ion even proposes the idea that Apollo raised this child, Creusa is ready to push back on that idea too, to point out how wrong it would be, and of course, you know that's exactly what happened. Apollo took that from her. She exposed the child certainly, So that doesn't to suggest that she doesn't bear some blame. But I think all listeners of my show should understand the complexity of assault and the reaction to it, let alone when that assault results in a child. Anyway, modern abortion is awesome, and the right to have one should be protected at all costs. Oi moi, the attendant, Ion replies, her fortune is in turn with my suffering. Creusa tells him that she believes his own mother misses him. They're just comforting each other. They're sharing their star and their traumas, their sadness and comforting each other over it. And we as the audience, know the truth that they are mother and son, that their stories resemble each others because they are one and the same. But well, this is the whole place, So it's going to be a while before either of them realize the truth. Some drama's gonna happen. Not to worry, Ion isn't ready either. He is still too devoted to Apollo to see too far beyond. He asks Creusa why she thinks that the God would tell her the truth about something he so obviously tried to keep hidden. He tells her that the act the rape, shames Apollo and so she shouldn't ask about it. This is where they diverge. Creusa says quote. Yet the woman who suffered this tragedy feels it acutely because again, this is one of the only narratives from ancient Greece that features rape of a human woman by a god and treats it as exactly that, as an assault, a trauma that left a lasting tragedy on this woman who survived it. So often I hear from other classicists that we shouldn't read so many of these myths as assault purely because you know, the ancient Greeks apparently didn't conceptualize consent, or rather just because our concept of it and rape is generally different now, or because they're gods, it can't be rape, Like I call bullshit, because just because the myths don't themselves don't feature the women's trauma doesn't mean it wasn't broadly understood in that world, like only that it didn't make it into the myth thos, maybe because it took someone like Euripides to examine these instances, or or maybe because too many other works are lost, but either way, the ion is proof of so much of the ancient psyche and how that God's forsaken phrase lay with can just be utter bullshit, like even in the ancient world. Creusa so desperately wants to ask the oracle about her child, but Ion knows Apollo. He tells her that there is no one who will give her this oracle, that if Apollo were made to seem unjust, whoever uttered such a thing would be punished. He tells her to give it up, that no one can question the oracle about the crimes of a god. Mortals cannot force anything from a god, and if they managed it, they would regret it. Quote what they give us willingly we live to enjoy. Creusa isn't having this. She's not backing down, and she's not going to let this temple attendant tell her to stop her search. She won't let Apollo wrong her any further. Creusa's denial after Ion tells her not to question the gods, is utterly badass and directed directly to Apollo. She tells him first and foremost quote Phoebus, not just then and there, but here and now you wrong the woman who is not here, though her words are through me, she will maintain this separation she's created. That she is speaking of a friend's experience and not her own, but that doesn't mean she will treat it any less seriously. She accuses Apollo of not saving the son he fathered even when he should have, and that even now, though he is the prophetic god, he refuses to answer the question of whether the child lives. Fine, She eventually agrees with ion quote, I must leave off if I am prevented by the God from learning what I need to know. There, she adds, there's my husband anyway, Kazuthus is coming towards us. Keep what I've told you secret from him so he won't learn my secret search and the story of my friend won't get back to him. Quote. Women's issues are hard for men to grasp, and the good women get confused with the bad, so we are all disparaged. We are born to misfortune. Euripides really like just coming out here and speaking real truths about the polite of ancient and let's be honest, modern women. My kingdom for a time machine, Like there's literally no ancient person I would like to meet more than this man. Xuthus greets Creusa and praises the god. She asks him how his own search for answers went. He was at the cave of Trifonios, another oracular sacred space, where he was asking about their inability to have children, something he will also ask this oracle. That oracle Xuthus says didn't want to step on apollos oracles toes, but did say that neither of us will return home childless. Creusa's happy with this or She appears to be at least thanking leto the mother of Apollo and noting, quote, whatever our relationship with your son was in the past, may its future fall out better. Absolutely, Suthus grees, having no real idea what she's talking about. I'm ready to ask my question of the god. So he prepares to go inside the temple where the Pithias speaks Apoulo's oracles to be interpreted by the priests of the same god. But before he goes, he asks Creusa to go to the altars and pray to all the gods that quote the oracles we receive from Apollo's household promise of children with that suitas heads inside the temple, Creusa agrees to go pray to the gods. Quote. If Loxius is willing now to atone for his earlier misdeeds, he would still not ever be altogether a friend to me. But whatever he wants, he is a god I will accept. Having said that, she also leaves the stage. Ion is left with the chorus and considers everything he's just learned. It's clear that for all he was kind and empathetic to Creusa, he understood her pain. He still is ready to question her intentions. He wonders about her, how she hated the god and spoke in riddles, he notes, quote, either she has deep affection for the woman on whose behalf she is consulting the oracle, or she is silent about something that must be kept secret. It's all about hinting to the audience of what's to come, reminding them of the truths they know, which the characters do not, because the next lines have i On questioning who Creusa even is to him. She's not his family, he notes. Yeah, he needs to leave to poor water, he says, but before he goes, he needs to speak to Apollo. And here this is a paragraph of ancient Greek text that I never ever thought I would read. In the seven years I have been podcasting the stories of mythological women, that I've been railing against the gods for the sheer volume of rapes they commit in the stories. In the seven years of specifically calling out Zeus and Poseidon for their crimes. I never thought a paragraph like this existed or could. I'd never imagined it as possible. Have I built it up enough? Jesus? Fuck, that's it's going to deliver. It's probably longer than I should read aloud, but I see no other option because the speech, this and this fucking translation of the speech, they just go. They go too hard. So Ion wants to have these words with Apollo right just indirectly, standing outside of Apollo's temple, who he has dedicated his entire life to, and speaking aloud to the god. Quote, what is wrong with him? Does he abandon young virgins after raping them? Is he apathetic to the deaths of children born from these affairs? Don't do it? You have power. You should pursue virtue. Whenever mortals do wrong, the gods punish them. How can it be right that you, who write the laws for mortals are guilty of transgressing them. If I know this won't happen. But for the sake of argument, if you and Poseidoned and Zeus, who rules the sky, had to pay the penalty to humans for rape, you would empty your temples atoning for your wrongs. You do wrong seeking pleasure without forethought. It is not right anymore to speak ill of men. If we imitate what the gods consider fine, But for those who teach us these things, it's another story. I just okay, let's say one piece again. You have power, you should pursue virtue. What a concept, What a concept that those people with power should use it for good? And then there's another line that I have to say once more because it just hits so fucking hard. It also is just it's still like the other two reel. If you swap out the word you for, say, the Western imperialist complex, how can it be right that you, who write the laws for mortals are guilty of transgressing them. The chorus of women sing for Creusa. They sing prayers to Athena, herself childless save for Athens. They sing to her, and to Artemis, sisters of Apollo. They pray to these goddesses, singing of mothers and motherhood, of childless women whose support matters whether they've given birth or not. They sing to goddesses while noting their relation to the God whose prophecy they seek, but they don't sing or pray to him. They pray to these goddesses that quote the ancient line of Erectheus, with clear oracles meet at last with lasting fertility. They sing of the happiness that children bring their parents, how they shine a light on their ancestors and pass down the wealth to future generations. But even then they pray that quote, the caring for children come before wealth and royal halls. They sing of being blessed with children and living modestly, how that is more than enough. And remember they're a chorus of women. Then the song turns. It turns to crews as past and what she's been through. So they sing to the daughters of Aglawis, who danced in the grass before Athena's temple, while Pan played his pipe and quote where a sorrowing virgin gave birth to Phoebus's infant and exposed it a bloody feast for birds and beasts. The crime of a violent rape. It's horrifying this part of their song. It's meant to tear at heart strings and wrench at the audience. An audience of men. Remember, written by a man for an audience of men. It's not fair to say there were no women in the audience, but officially, officially, there were no women in the audience. You cannot convince me that Euripides wasn't one of the best men in the ancient Greek canon, that he wasn't a man who cared deeply, so deeply for the things that women went through in his world. He's writing of terrible things, but that he's writing them at all and politically is so rare and meaningful that the horrors just fall away. What were left with is proof that not only did the ancient Greeks have the ability to conceptualize the horrors of assault by men or gods because duh, they did, but that at least some of them recognized not only that it was bad, but how even the mythos would have affected the very real women around them. At least this man set out to share that empathy with others, tried to emphasize to the men of his city that women faced unique threats divine or mortal. That's not to say that rape wasn't illegal then it was, but it was more about spoiling your possession, not about actual trauma. That's why this means so much. The chorus's final lines of this prayer song are quote. Not in my weaving, nor in other tales have I heard that children born to mortals from gods have a share in happy life. It's a beautiful and sad line in itself, but I want to bring attention to a couple of things in it. These are meant to be women, right this chorus. They would have been played by men. Everyone in this play would have been a man. But listen to what they're saying, like, they aren't just relaying events of the play or providing commentary here, they are representing women broadly. The audience isn't just told that they're women. They are hearing women's voices here. They say that, not in their weaving or other tales have they heard? That is an acknowledgment of the real lives of women, not mythological lives, not men's ideas of women's lives. But instead, it's a statement that real women would have made, because real women of Athens would learn each other's stories through weaving and telling tales. These are the voices that I think about all the time, like the women who were alone in their homes all day, with only their friends, other women to speak to and learn from, to share stories, good or bad, warnings or praises to each other, not for the men to hear. This is Euripides, not only acknowledging that but appreciating its value. Ion returns to the stage and speaks with this chorus of women, first noting how they keep their watch and wait for Creusa. Then he wonders about suit this and asks if he's still inside the temple, asking after the oracle's prophecy. He is, they say, but as they're speaking, he finishes and he exits the temple, joining him on the stage. Casuthus is happy. He's excited. He he goes to Ion and greets him, quote, my boy, be happy. This is a fitting way for me to address you. Ion is a little confused. He tells Suthus that he's happy enough. Xuthus then asks to embrace Ion. He wants to hug him again. Ion is confused. He asks if the God has sent him some kind of madness. Xuthus tells him that, of course not, no, he's great. He just wants to quote to embrace what is most precious to me. Again. Ion is confused. He tells Suthus to stop. He says no, that he might damage any of the sacred dressings that he wears as this attendant to the God if he were to be embraced by this stranger again, though Suthus wants to hug, noting that he wouldn't be grabbing another's property but his own, which is of course a very weird way of getting his point across. I won't spoil it for him, but oh is he being a fucking weirdo and borderline abusive? Ion is not having it, thankfully. He even threatens Suthus with an arrow in his ribs, to which Suthus asks why Ion quote refuses to acknowledge me, your nearest and dearest again, Southus, you could be going about this in a better way, but he doesn't, and I think that that is so deeply on purpose. Suthus is an incredible contrast to both Creusa and this Chorus of Women, where Creusa and the women were kind and calm and empathetic. They were inherently warm and good to Ion. Suthus is just full on. He's coming at Ion without explaining himself. He's emotional and irrational, he's possessive, and while he's being a man, a distinct an intentional contrast with the many, many women who've already been on the stage to share their stories, their traumas, their hopes and dreams. Only for this bumbling man to come out of the temple to Apollo where he just literally and figuratively was speaking with this god whose assault of his wife is the plot of the play, and it starts trying to force an embrace on a boy who doesn't want it, telling him that he is Xuthus's property. The messages that Euripides is conveying with this play are just again like they are bigger and better and more powerful than I even thought possible for Euripides, I'm honestly just like incomplete awe that it just keeps getting bigger and stronger than more of this that I read, and we're waugh. Aon tells Casuthus that he won't be humoring this madness, to which Xuthus says, quote, do your worst, but if you kill me you will be your father's murderer. Suthus has just told Ion that he basically has to hug him because he's his son, to which Ion unsurprisingly basically says, what the fuck are you talking about? Suthus just says, quote, a running account would make the story clear to you, Like, okay, dude, then share that account and yeah, Ion is us and essentially says that. So Suthus, again being the patriarch, says simply quote, I am your father and you are my son. Says who? Ion asks? Xuthus says that Apollo brought him up, but he's south as his son again, just making statements for Ion to take us backed. So Ion says, basically, you're telling me to leave you, but only with yourself as evidence. So Suthus admits that that's true, and it's only since speaking with the god that he can even say that much. So I was like, okay, there, it is like this the oracle was a riddle. You've been tricked, Sutha says, quote, then I didn't hear it right. Ion asks, quote, what were Loxius's exact words? Ion is being very patient, explicitly displaying character traits and demeanor that do not resemble Suthus, but Creusa. He keeps asking questions, pulling information from Suthus with quick replies between the two. Through this back and forth, it's eventually revealed that the oracle told him that the first person he encountered when he left the temple was his natural son. But when Ion asks quote her own child or the gift of another, Soothus admits, quote, a gift, but still my own. And when Ion asks who his mother would be, then Southus just says, quote, I was so overcome by this news that I didn't think to ask, And that's when I actually screamed out loud when reading this. But wait, it gets better. Ion asks, quote, was I born from mother Earth, to which Xuthus says, quote, soil does not give birth to children. And there it is. There's so much going on here, But before we look at that, okay, Ion's response to is to ask how Suthis could be his father, to which Southus just says that he doesn't know. He just trusts the God. Like Southus doesn't want to learn, he doesn't want to understand, He just wants to possess. But back to that being born to the soil bit the entire mythos of the city of Athens, which is deeply, deeply sacred to the city and its citizens, all of whom claim Athenian lineage. Like explicitly states that Athenians are born from the soil of Athens. They are Atoxenus. It's a mythological means of establishing indigeneity, being quite literally born of the earth itself. So Xuthus is making a really egregious insult to all Athenians by saying this line as like a throwaway and given Euripides to Athenian and the play would have been performed in Athens in front of an audience of Athenians. This is a very intentional slight But of course it's not just that. Through this entire character of Xuthus, Euripides is creating a man who stands in complete contrast to Ion's character, who instead explicitly resembles Creusa's character. And Uthus is not just like bumbling in this interaction, but like intentionally patriarchal, and I do mean that in the big sense of the word. In addition to the small Suthus is being patriarchal by establishing himself as Ion's father like quite literally the patriarch, but he's also being patriarchal. And how he does it, how he is claiming Ion as his son, because he's not doing it out of love, He's not showing an actual like affection for Ion. He's claiming ownership. Where Creusa asked Ion questions about his life and his story and his family, where Creusa showed empathy for his story and his background and thought about Ion's mother and she was sad, and Suthus just takes Suthus asks no questions. He doesn't want to know anything about Ion. He just hears he has a son and immediately wants the possession that comes with that. He wants to possess a son because of everything it means for Athenian men. He you know, Ion is a son and not a daughter. And so Suthus, through Ion, feels like he's being granted an heir, someone to carry the citizenship, someone to carry Suthus's name and his wealth. Where Creusa wants a child to love, Suthus wants a child to possess because and here is where I intentionally generalize. He is representing men patriarchy, and Creusa is representing women and I don't want to say patriarchy, but I really do mean it as a way like as opposite to patriarchy, where broadly women are wired to be concerned with kindness and care and understanding and empathy. And men, and again I'm intentionally generalizing, men have proven that when in control, they are primarily concerned with power and more control possession. Suthus, who is quite literally standing in for the patriarchy here, has proven that he doesn't care why or how ion is his, just that he is. He wants to take what he thinks is his to possess it without question, let alone the consent of the one that he is seeking to possess, which is of course why patriarchy. Big patriarchy spawn imperialism. Under patriarchy, the main concern is power, control and ownership over land and wealth. Imperialism is the only way that the people in power believe they can continue to hold that power. They must take it by force, no matter the damage it does to the people or the earth. There is no concern for the actual land. That's why they bomb and destroy, why they burn thousand year old olive trees while claiming to be the true inheritors of that land. But how can anyone claim to be the wardens of a land when they show no desire to care for it, when they will burn ancient trees and bomb the earth with chemicals and damage that will last for generations to come, all to establish more power, to take more land from those who have cared for it for generations, just so they can extract its resources to build more wealth. There's a lot to debate about what exactly it means to be indigenous to a land. I am born of a colonizing group. I exist as a colonizer on land, and that was colonized by patriarchal imperialism. So I won't pretend to have the answers, but I will say that it is difficult to see how anyone can be indigenous to a land when they slash and burn a land where they plant invasive trees on mass in order to keep other people out, where they destroy and balm and soak with the blood of children. It's difficult to see how those people are meant to be that land's caretakers when they show no intention of caring for that land. In order to claim ownership of land, the intention should be to care for it. To love it and cherish it for its natural state. The intention should not be to bulldoze and set it on fire. That's just more imperialist destruction. But I guess I was still talking about I on and his father, right. Ion refuses to accept Suthus's claims without evidence without asking questions, because he is Creusa's son, so he says, well, you must have had an affair then if I was your child. Suthus concedes that that's true, and he blames his youth because we're not meant to like suit this. That much is very clear. He doesn't. He does clarify though, when asked that the affair that he had that could have resulted in a child was before he married Creusa. Okay, Ion says, quote, that was when you fathered me. Sutha says, quote, the time matches. Again. He is uninterested in the evidence or the details. He's basically just like, yeah, sure, I mean, like, I had sex at least one time before I married Crisis, so like that must be it. And when Ion is like, okay, well how did I end up here, Suthus might as well just say I don't know, but don't worry. It gets better. Ion keeps pressing. He does actually care to understand this new information. He wants to know the details, So he's like, okay, so have you ever been to Delphi before? Soothus is like, yeah, one time with for a Dionysian festival. Okay, Ion continues, so did you stay with sponsors at the temple? Yeah? I met some girls here too. Suthus says, were they initiates? Then? Ion asks, which is when Suthus says that the women he met back then were main ads devotees to Dionysus, which says a lot about where this is going. Ion asks if he was sober or drunk. Suthus just says, quote enjoying the pleasures of Bacchus. So basically, Euthus is revealing that he got drunk at a presumably orgiastic festival to Dionysus, and he very well could have fathered a child during that time. This bit of the story is so fucking modern, isn't it Like a man being told he has a son and now he's just going back in his memory trying to figure out how it could have happened, And the answer is a drunken night at a party that he barely remembers humanity never changes. Ion keeps trying to ask questions, but Casuthus doesn't seem to have any other answers, and slowly, though it's clear that it's not something Ion is ready to easily accept, he does finally say that, like it would be wrong for him not to believe Apollo, so he's basically having to concede this new information purely because of his devotion to the god. So finally, eventually they do seem to kind of embrace in some way. But even then Ion is clearly so uncomfortable with the whole situation, Like he has to ask if he should touch Suthus if he was his father, or to it Becauzuthus tells him yeah, because he should listen to Apollo, Like it's just so icky for everyone. Ion isn't happy about this. He isn't happy to have this father, let alone someone who is clearly not looking for a meaningful relationship but like an answer to a problem. Finally, after he seems to like reluctantly accept that like this must be true, he doesn't ever turn affection toward Xuthus or even like really acknowledge anything. Instead, he directs his words to someone else, quote, dearest mother, will I ever see your face? I love to see you now more than ever before, whoever you are. But it could be that you are dead and we cannot see you even in a dream. Oh, Nerds, this fucking play, I'm completely obsessed, Like it might be my favorite ever, not even halfway through, but fuck everybody's going He's going so hard on anti patriarchy, Like, I don't think I'm reading too much into this. I think it's fucking clear on the page, the symbolism in Creusa and suit This as these like wild contrasts of power and family, Like I'm fucking fascinated. I also love that Ion kind of lacks gender, or rather is fluid, Like we know he's a boy biologically, but he's been raised at this temple, so like he hasn't been socialized like a boy would normally. He's been socialized to be a temple attendant more than anything else. So instead of fitting into one gender, he's sort of taking on this role of an in between, Like he's like a blank slate through which we can see the contrast between how Creusa feels and how sooth This feels, and how they both behave so that the gender dynamics at play are like exclusively between those two, with Ion as this kind of like mediator. The idea that I picked this play purely because there's like a weird moment with Gorgan Blood that we haven't even gotten to yet is so wild to me now because I'm truly not sure how I've I've just I don't think I've ever been more in awe of your Ypandies's work. The number of times my jaw just fucking dropped or I've shouted something out loud while reading this, like I can't quite believe it's real, quite honestly, and surely that's also in small part to the translation. It's really fucking beautiful. And also it's free online if you're curious. I've linked to an absence description, But maybe wait until after I finished with the series, because I have a feeling these episodes are only going to get better, Like this is exactly what I needed. I knew Your Ypandies would bring you back into this world that I love and like remind me why the ancient world this was fucking fascinating and meaningful in how these stories remain so relevant today and oh he was all I needed. Let's finish off the episode with a five star review from one of you amazing listeners in this one, well that's pretty fitting. It's from a user in the States called Telephone CMN best mythology podcast. I love this podcast so much. Well researched and hilarious. Live is an engaging storyteller who doesn't shy away from acknowledging the brutality and general horror of women's lives in the ancient and mythological worlds, while at the same time making her love for the classics very clear. That's right, folks, two things can be true at the same time. She draws astute parallels to modern life and somehow manages to keep it all incredibly funny. Live is doing her part to dismantle the CIS hetero patriarchy through storytelling. She's a queen and you should listen to this podcast. I mean, I hope it's clear, but that one made me really happy, like just our real joy. Le's talk about Mith's Baby is written and produced by me Live Albert Nikayla Smith is the hermes to My Olympians. My assistant producer, Laura Smith is the audio engineer and production assistant. The podcast is part of the iHeart podcast Network. Select music in this episode was by Luke Chaos. Listen on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and help me continue bring you the world of No Still. If you were gonna donate to my Patreon, give it to Gaza instead. Thank you all so much. I am live and I love this shit.

How I mentioned lately how much I love euripidies, Like, not only do we have this woman who is basically a princess of Athens, visiting the temple of Apollo alone and in secret from her husband and having to relive her trauma in doing so, but she's there as the explicit master of her enslaved attendance. Her husband is off somewhere, hasn't been heard from yet, and she shares not only the story of her trauma with Ion this attendant, but backs herself at every turn. When Ion wonders if the woman is lying, Creusa insists. And when Ion even proposes the idea that Apollo raised this child, Creusa is ready to push back on that idea too, to point out how wrong it would be, and of course, you know that's exactly what happened. Apollo took that from her. She exposed the child certainly, So that doesn't to suggest that she doesn't bear some blame. But I think all listeners of my show should understand the complexity of assault and the reaction to it, let alone when that assault results in a child. Anyway, modern abortion is awesome, and the right to have one should be protected at all costs. Oi moi, the attendant, Ion replies, her fortune is in turn with my suffering. Creusa tells him that she believes his own mother misses him. They're just comforting each other. They're sharing their star and their traumas, their sadness and comforting each other over it. And we as the audience, know the truth that they are mother and son, that their stories resemble each others because they are one and the same. But well, this is the whole place, So it's going to be a while before either of them realize the truth. Some drama's gonna happen. Not to worry, Ion isn't ready either. He is still too devoted to Apollo to see too far beyond. He asks Creusa why she thinks that the God would tell her the truth about something he so obviously tried to keep hidden. He tells her that the act the rape, shames Apollo and so she shouldn't ask about it. This is where they diverge. Creusa says quote. Yet the woman who suffered this tragedy feels it acutely because again, this is one of the only narratives from ancient Greece that features rape of a human woman by a god and treats it as exactly that, as an assault, a trauma that left a lasting tragedy on this woman who survived it. So often I hear from other classicists that we shouldn't read so many of these myths as assault purely because you know, the ancient Greeks apparently didn't conceptualize consent, or rather just because our concept of it and rape is generally different now, or because they're gods, it can't be rape, Like I call bullshit, because just because the myths don't themselves don't feature the women's trauma doesn't mean it wasn't broadly understood in that world, like only that it didn't make it into the myth thos, maybe because it took someone like Euripides to examine these instances, or or maybe because too many other works are lost, but either way, the ion is proof of so much of the ancient psyche and how that God's forsaken phrase lay with can just be utter bullshit, like even in the ancient world. Creusa so desperately wants to ask the oracle about her child, but Ion knows Apollo. He tells her that there is no one who will give her this oracle, that if Apollo were made to seem unjust, whoever uttered such a thing would be punished. He tells her to give it up, that no one can question the oracle about the crimes of a god. Mortals cannot force anything from a god, and if they managed it, they would regret it. Quote what they give us willingly we live to enjoy. Creusa isn't having this. She's not backing down, and she's not going to let this temple attendant tell her to stop her search. She won't let Apollo wrong her any further. Creusa's denial after Ion tells her not to question the gods, is utterly badass and directed directly to Apollo. She tells him first and foremost quote Phoebus, not just then and there, but here and now you wrong the woman who is not here, though her words are through me, she will maintain this separation she's created. That she is speaking of a friend's experience and not her own, but that doesn't mean she will treat it any less seriously. She accuses Apollo of not saving the son he fathered even when he should have, and that even now, though he is the prophetic god, he refuses to answer the question of whether the child lives. Fine, She eventually agrees with ion quote, I must leave off if I am prevented by the God from learning what I need to know. There, she adds, there's my husband anyway, Kazuthus is coming towards us. Keep what I've told you secret from him so he won't learn my secret search and the story of my friend won't get back to him. Quote. Women's issues are hard for men to grasp, and the good women get confused with the bad, so we are all disparaged. We are born to misfortune. Euripides really like just coming out here and speaking real truths about the polite of ancient and let's be honest, modern women. My kingdom for a time machine, Like there's literally no ancient person I would like to meet more than this man. Xuthus greets Creusa and praises the god. She asks him how his own search for answers went. He was at the cave of Trifonios, another oracular sacred space, where he was asking about their inability to have children, something he will also ask this oracle. That oracle Xuthus says didn't want to step on apollos oracles toes, but did say that neither of us will return home childless. Creusa's happy with this or She appears to be at least thanking leto the mother of Apollo and noting, quote, whatever our relationship with your son was in the past, may its future fall out better. Absolutely, Suthus grees, having no real idea what she's talking about. I'm ready to ask my question of the god. So he prepares to go inside the temple where the Pithias speaks Apoulo's oracles to be interpreted by the priests of the same god. But before he goes, he asks Creusa to go to the altars and pray to all the gods that quote the oracles we receive from Apollo's household promise of children with that suitas heads inside the temple, Creusa agrees to go pray to the gods. Quote. If Loxius is willing now to atone for his earlier misdeeds, he would still not ever be altogether a friend to me. But whatever he wants, he is a god I will accept. Having said that, she also leaves the stage. Ion is left with the chorus and considers everything he's just learned. It's clear that for all he was kind and empathetic to Creusa, he understood her pain. He still is ready to question her intentions. He wonders about her, how she hated the god and spoke in riddles, he notes, quote, either she has deep affection for the woman on whose behalf she is consulting the oracle, or she is silent about something that must be kept secret. It's all about hinting to the audience of what's to come, reminding them of the truths they know, which the characters do not, because the next lines have i On questioning who Creusa even is to him. She's not his family, he notes. Yeah, he needs to leave to poor water, he says, but before he goes, he needs to speak to Apollo. And here this is a paragraph of ancient Greek text that I never ever thought I would read. In the seven years I have been podcasting the stories of mythological women, that I've been railing against the gods for the sheer volume of rapes they commit in the stories. In the seven years of specifically calling out Zeus and Poseidon for their crimes. I never thought a paragraph like this existed or could. I'd never imagined it as possible. Have I built it up enough? Jesus? Fuck, that's it's going to deliver. It's probably longer than I should read aloud, but I see no other option because the speech, this and this fucking translation of the speech, they just go. They go too hard. So Ion wants to have these words with Apollo right just indirectly, standing outside of Apollo's temple, who he has dedicated his entire life to, and speaking aloud to the god. Quote, what is wrong with him? Does he abandon young virgins after raping them? Is he apathetic to the deaths of children born from these affairs? Don't do it? You have power. You should pursue virtue. Whenever mortals do wrong, the gods punish them. How can it be right that you, who write the laws for mortals are guilty of transgressing them. If I know this won't happen. But for the sake of argument, if you and Poseidoned and Zeus, who rules the sky, had to pay the penalty to humans for rape, you would empty your temples atoning for your wrongs. You do wrong seeking pleasure without forethought. It is not right anymore to speak ill of men. If we imitate what the gods consider fine, But for those who teach us these things, it's another story. I just okay, let's say one piece again. You have power, you should pursue virtue. What a concept, What a concept that those people with power should use it for good? And then there's another line that I have to say once more because it just hits so fucking hard. It also is just it's still like the other two reel. If you swap out the word you for, say, the Western imperialist complex, how can it be right that you, who write the laws for mortals are guilty of transgressing them. The chorus of women sing for Creusa. They sing prayers to Athena, herself childless save for Athens. They sing to her, and to Artemis, sisters of Apollo. They pray to these goddesses, singing of mothers and motherhood, of childless women whose support matters whether they've given birth or not. They sing to goddesses while noting their relation to the God whose prophecy they seek, but they don't sing or pray to him. They pray to these goddesses that quote the ancient line of Erectheus, with clear oracles meet at last with lasting fertility. They sing of the happiness that children bring their parents, how they shine a light on their ancestors and pass down the wealth to future generations. But even then they pray that quote, the caring for children come before wealth and royal halls. They sing of being blessed with children and living modestly, how that is more than enough. And remember they're a chorus of women. Then the song turns. It turns to crews as past and what she's been through. So they sing to the daughters of Aglawis, who danced in the grass before Athena's temple, while Pan played his pipe and quote where a sorrowing virgin gave birth to Phoebus's infant and exposed it a bloody feast for birds and beasts. The crime of a violent rape. It's horrifying this part of their song. It's meant to tear at heart strings and wrench at the audience. An audience of men. Remember, written by a man for an audience of men. It's not fair to say there were no women in the audience, but officially, officially, there were no women in the audience. You cannot convince me that Euripides wasn't one of the best men in the ancient Greek canon, that he wasn't a man who cared deeply, so deeply for the things that women went through in his world. He's writing of terrible things, but that he's writing them at all and politically is so rare and meaningful that the horrors just fall away. What were left with is proof that not only did the ancient Greeks have the ability to conceptualize the horrors of assault by men or gods because duh, they did, but that at least some of them recognized not only that it was bad, but how even the mythos would have affected the very real women around them. At least this man set out to share that empathy with others, tried to emphasize to the men of his city that women faced unique threats divine or mortal. That's not to say that rape wasn't illegal then it was, but it was more about spoiling your possession, not about actual trauma. That's why this means so much. The chorus's final lines of this prayer song are quote. Not in my weaving, nor in other tales have I heard that children born to mortals from gods have a share in happy life. It's a beautiful and sad line in itself, but I want to bring attention to a couple of things in it. These are meant to be women, right this chorus. They would have been played by men. Everyone in this play would have been a man. But listen to what they're saying, like, they aren't just relaying events of the play or providing commentary here, they are representing women broadly. The audience isn't just told that they're women. They are hearing women's voices here. They say that, not in their weaving or other tales have they heard? That is an acknowledgment of the real lives of women, not mythological lives, not men's ideas of women's lives. But instead, it's a statement that real women would have made, because real women of Athens would learn each other's stories through weaving and telling tales. These are the voices that I think about all the time, like the women who were alone in their homes all day, with only their friends, other women to speak to and learn from, to share stories, good or bad, warnings or praises to each other, not for the men to hear. This is Euripides, not only acknowledging that but appreciating its value. Ion returns to the stage and speaks with this chorus of women, first noting how they keep their watch and wait for Creusa. Then he wonders about suit this and asks if he's still inside the temple, asking after the oracle's prophecy. He is, they say, but as they're speaking, he finishes and he exits the temple, joining him on the stage. Casuthus is happy. He's excited. He he goes to Ion and greets him, quote, my boy, be happy. This is a fitting way for me to address you. Ion is a little confused. He tells Suthus that he's happy enough. Xuthus then asks to embrace Ion. He wants to hug him again. Ion is confused. He asks if the God has sent him some kind of madness. Xuthus tells him that, of course not, no, he's great. He just wants to quote to embrace what is most precious to me. Again. Ion is confused. He tells Suthus to stop. He says no, that he might damage any of the sacred dressings that he wears as this attendant to the God if he were to be embraced by this stranger again, though Suthus wants to hug, noting that he wouldn't be grabbing another's property but his own, which is of course a very weird way of getting his point across. I won't spoil it for him, but oh is he being a fucking weirdo and borderline abusive? Ion is not having it, thankfully. He even threatens Suthus with an arrow in his ribs, to which Suthus asks why Ion quote refuses to acknowledge me, your nearest and dearest again, Southus, you could be going about this in a better way, but he doesn't, and I think that that is so deeply on purpose. Suthus is an incredible contrast to both Creusa and this Chorus of Women, where Creusa and the women were kind and calm and empathetic. They were inherently warm and good to Ion. Suthus is just full on. He's coming at Ion without explaining himself. He's emotional and irrational, he's possessive, and while he's being a man, a distinct an intentional contrast with the many, many women who've already been on the stage to share their stories, their traumas, their hopes and dreams. Only for this bumbling man to come out of the temple to Apollo where he just literally and figuratively was speaking with this god whose assault of his wife is the plot of the play, and it starts trying to force an embrace on a boy who doesn't want it, telling him that he is Xuthus's property. The messages that Euripides is conveying with this play are just again like they are bigger and better and more powerful than I even thought possible for Euripides, I'm honestly just like incomplete awe that it just keeps getting bigger and stronger than more of this that I read, and we're waugh. Aon tells Casuthus that he won't be humoring this madness, to which Xuthus says, quote, do your worst, but if you kill me you will be your father's murderer. Suthus has just told Ion that he basically has to hug him because he's his son, to which Ion unsurprisingly basically says, what the fuck are you talking about? Suthus just says, quote, a running account would make the story clear to you, Like, okay, dude, then share that account and yeah, Ion is us and essentially says that. So Suthus, again being the patriarch, says simply quote, I am your father and you are my son. Says who? Ion asks? Xuthus says that Apollo brought him up, but he's south as his son again, just making statements for Ion to take us backed. So Ion says, basically, you're telling me to leave you, but only with yourself as evidence. So Suthus admits that that's true, and it's only since speaking with the god that he can even say that much. So I was like, okay, there, it is like this the oracle was a riddle. You've been tricked, Sutha says, quote, then I didn't hear it right. Ion asks, quote, what were Loxius's exact words? Ion is being very patient, explicitly displaying character traits and demeanor that do not resemble Suthus, but Creusa. He keeps asking questions, pulling information from Suthus with quick replies between the two. Through this back and forth, it's eventually revealed that the oracle told him that the first person he encountered when he left the temple was his natural son. But when Ion asks quote her own child or the gift of another, Soothus admits, quote, a gift, but still my own. And when Ion asks who his mother would be, then Southus just says, quote, I was so overcome by this news that I didn't think to ask, And that's when I actually screamed out loud when reading this. But wait, it gets better. Ion asks, quote, was I born from mother Earth, to which Xuthus says, quote, soil does not give birth to children. And there it is. There's so much going on here, But before we look at that, okay, Ion's response to is to ask how Suthis could be his father, to which Southus just says that he doesn't know. He just trusts the God. Like Southus doesn't want to learn, he doesn't want to understand, He just wants to possess. But back to that being born to the soil bit the entire mythos of the city of Athens, which is deeply, deeply sacred to the city and its citizens, all of whom claim Athenian lineage. Like explicitly states that Athenians are born from the soil of Athens. They are Atoxenus. It's a mythological means of establishing indigeneity, being quite literally born of the earth itself. So Xuthus is making a really egregious insult to all Athenians by saying this line as like a throwaway and given Euripides to Athenian and the play would have been performed in Athens in front of an audience of Athenians. This is a very intentional slight But of course it's not just that. Through this entire character of Xuthus, Euripides is creating a man who stands in complete contrast to Ion's character, who instead explicitly resembles Creusa's character. And Uthus is not just like bumbling in this interaction, but like intentionally patriarchal, and I do mean that in the big sense of the word. In addition to the small Suthus is being patriarchal by establishing himself as Ion's father like quite literally the patriarch, but he's also being patriarchal. And how he does it, how he is claiming Ion as his son, because he's not doing it out of love, He's not showing an actual like affection for Ion. He's claiming ownership. Where Creusa asked Ion questions about his life and his story and his family, where Creusa showed empathy for his story and his background and thought about Ion's mother and she was sad, and Suthus just takes Suthus asks no questions. He doesn't want to know anything about Ion. He just hears he has a son and immediately wants the possession that comes with that. He wants to possess a son because of everything it means for Athenian men. He you know, Ion is a son and not a daughter. And so Suthus, through Ion, feels like he's being granted an heir, someone to carry the citizenship, someone to carry Suthus's name and his wealth. Where Creusa wants a child to love, Suthus wants a child to possess because and here is where I intentionally generalize. He is representing men patriarchy, and Creusa is representing women and I don't want to say patriarchy, but I really do mean it as a way like as opposite to patriarchy, where broadly women are wired to be concerned with kindness and care and understanding and empathy. And men, and again I'm intentionally generalizing, men have proven that when in control, they are primarily concerned with power and more control possession. Suthus, who is quite literally standing in for the patriarchy here, has proven that he doesn't care why or how ion is his, just that he is. He wants to take what he thinks is his to possess it without question, let alone the consent of the one that he is seeking to possess, which is of course why patriarchy. Big patriarchy spawn imperialism. Under patriarchy, the main concern is power, control and ownership over land and wealth. Imperialism is the only way that the people in power believe they can continue to hold that power. They must take it by force, no matter the damage it does to the people or the earth. There is no concern for the actual land. That's why they bomb and destroy, why they burn thousand year old olive trees while claiming to be the true inheritors of that land. But how can anyone claim to be the wardens of a land when they show no desire to care for it, when they will burn ancient trees and bomb the earth with chemicals and damage that will last for generations to come, all to establish more power, to take more land from those who have cared for it for generations, just so they can extract its resources to build more wealth. There's a lot to debate about what exactly it means to be indigenous to a land. I am born of a colonizing group. I exist as a colonizer on land, and that was colonized by patriarchal imperialism. So I won't pretend to have the answers, but I will say that it is difficult to see how anyone can be indigenous to a land when they slash and burn a land where they plant invasive trees on mass in order to keep other people out, where they destroy and balm and soak with the blood of children. It's difficult to see how those people are meant to be that land's caretakers when they show no intention of caring for that land. In order to claim ownership of land, the intention should be to care for it. To love it and cherish it for its natural state. The intention should not be to bulldoze and set it on fire. That's just more imperialist destruction. But I guess I was still talking about I on and his father, right. Ion refuses to accept Suthus's claims without evidence without asking questions, because he is Creusa's son, so he says, well, you must have had an affair then if I was your child. Suthus concedes that that's true, and he blames his youth because we're not meant to like suit this. That much is very clear. He doesn't. He does clarify though, when asked that the affair that he had that could have resulted in a child was before he married Creusa. Okay, Ion says, quote, that was when you fathered me. Sutha says, quote, the time matches. Again. He is uninterested in the evidence or the details. He's basically just like, yeah, sure, I mean, like, I had sex at least one time before I married Crisis, so like that must be it. And when Ion is like, okay, well how did I end up here, Suthus might as well just say I don't know, but don't worry. It gets better. Ion keeps pressing. He does actually care to understand this new information. He wants to know the details, So he's like, okay, so have you ever been to Delphi before? Soothus is like, yeah, one time with for a Dionysian festival. Okay, Ion continues, so did you stay with sponsors at the temple? Yeah? I met some girls here too. Suthus says, were they initiates? Then? Ion asks, which is when Suthus says that the women he met back then were main ads devotees to Dionysus, which says a lot about where this is going. Ion asks if he was sober or drunk. Suthus just says, quote enjoying the pleasures of Bacchus. So basically, Euthus is revealing that he got drunk at a presumably orgiastic festival to Dionysus, and he very well could have fathered a child during that time. This bit of the story is so fucking modern, isn't it Like a man being told he has a son and now he's just going back in his memory trying to figure out how it could have happened, And the answer is a drunken night at a party that he barely remembers humanity never changes. Ion keeps trying to ask questions, but Casuthus doesn't seem to have any other answers, and slowly, though it's clear that it's not something Ion is ready to easily accept, he does finally say that, like it would be wrong for him not to believe Apollo, so he's basically having to concede this new information purely because of his devotion to the god. So finally, eventually they do seem to kind of embrace in some way. But even then Ion is clearly so uncomfortable with the whole situation, Like he has to ask if he should touch Suthus if he was his father, or to it Becauzuthus tells him yeah, because he should listen to Apollo, Like it's just so icky for everyone. Ion isn't happy about this. He isn't happy to have this father, let alone someone who is clearly not looking for a meaningful relationship but like an answer to a problem. Finally, after he seems to like reluctantly accept that like this must be true, he doesn't ever turn affection toward Xuthus or even like really acknowledge anything. Instead, he directs his words to someone else, quote, dearest mother, will I ever see your face? I love to see you now more than ever before, whoever you are. But it could be that you are dead and we cannot see you even in a dream. Oh, Nerds, this fucking play, I'm completely obsessed, Like it might be my favorite ever, not even halfway through, but fuck everybody's going He's going so hard on anti patriarchy, Like, I don't think I'm reading too much into this. I think it's fucking clear on the page, the symbolism in Creusa and suit This as these like wild contrasts of power and family, Like I'm fucking fascinated. I also love that Ion kind of lacks gender, or rather is fluid, Like we know he's a boy biologically, but he's been raised at this temple, so like he hasn't been socialized like a boy would normally. He's been socialized to be a temple attendant more than anything else. So instead of fitting into one gender, he's sort of taking on this role of an in between, Like he's like a blank slate through which we can see the contrast between how Creusa feels and how sooth This feels, and how they both behave so that the gender dynamics at play are like exclusively between those two, with Ion as this kind of like mediator. The idea that I picked this play purely because there's like a weird moment with Gorgan Blood that we haven't even gotten to yet is so wild to me now because I'm truly not sure how I've I've just I don't think I've ever been more in awe of your Ypandies's work. The number of times my jaw just fucking dropped or I've shouted something out loud while reading this, like I can't quite believe it's real, quite honestly, and surely that's also in small part to the translation. It's really fucking beautiful. And also it's free online if you're curious. I've linked to an absence description, But maybe wait until after I finished with the series, because I have a feeling these episodes are only going to get better, Like this is exactly what I needed. I knew Your Ypandies would bring you back into this world that I love and like remind me why the ancient world this was fucking fascinating and meaningful in how these stories remain so relevant today and oh he was all I needed. Let's finish off the episode with a five star review from one of you amazing listeners in this one, well that's pretty fitting. It's from a user in the States called Telephone CMN best mythology podcast. I love this podcast so much. Well researched and hilarious. Live is an engaging storyteller who doesn't shy away from acknowledging the brutality and general horror of women's lives in the ancient and mythological worlds, while at the same time making her love for the classics very clear. That's right, folks, two things can be true at the same time. She draws astute parallels to modern life and somehow manages to keep it all incredibly funny. Live is doing her part to dismantle the CIS hetero patriarchy through storytelling. She's a queen and you should listen to this podcast. I mean, I hope it's clear, but that one made me really happy, like just our real joy. Le's talk about Mith's Baby is written and produced by me Live Albert Nikayla Smith is the hermes to My Olympians. My assistant producer, Laura Smith is the audio engineer and production assistant. The podcast is part of the iHeart podcast Network. Select music in this episode was by Luke Chaos. Listen on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and help me continue bring you the world of No Still. If you were gonna donate to my Patreon, give it to Gaza instead. Thank you all so much. I am live and I love this shit.