He Is Not All That, Pygmalion the Misogynist Mythological Incel

Published Feb 13, 2024, 8:00 AM

The story of Pygmalion is... so much. Plus, the time a man "fell in love" with a statue. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!

CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.

Sources: Ovid's Metamorphoses, translated by Stephanie McCarter; Clement of Alexandria, translated by GW Butterworth; The Erotes, attributed to Lucian of Samosata and translated by AM Harmon; for more on the statue.

Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.

We must then approach the statues of the gods closely as we possibly can, in order to prove from their very appearance that they are inseparably associated with error, For their forms are unmistakably stamped with the characteristic marks of the daimones the spirits. At least, if one were to go round inspecting the paintings and statues, he would immediately recognize your gods from their undignified figures. The pyre indicates Heracles, and if one sees a woman represented naked, he understands it is golden aphrodite. So the well known Pygmalion of kip Rose fell in love with an ivory statue. It was of aphrodite and was naked. The man of Kipros is captivated by its shapeliness and embraces the statue. This is related by Philostefanos. There was also an aphrodite in Canidos, made of marble and beautiful. Another man fell in love with this and has intercourse with the marble, as Posidipos relates. The account of the first author is in his book on kip Ros, that of the second in his book on Canidos. Such strength had art to beguile that it became four amorous men, a guide to the pit of destruction. Now, craftsmanship is powerful, but it cannot beguile a rational being. Nor yet those who have lived according to reason. They say that a maiden once fell in love with an image, and a beautiful youth with a Canadian statue. But it was their sight that was beguiled by the art. For no man in his senses would have embraced the statue of a goddess, or have been buried with a lifeless paramour, or have fallen in love with the daimone and a stone. Hi, Hello there, and welcome. This is let's talk about myths baby, and I am that host of yours, she who is finally attempting a regular scripted episode again. I'm live now. I had quite the adventure deciding on today's episode. I'm going to relay it to you. It's falling right before Valentine's Day, and you will know how much I love a theme. So I thought i'd go looking for a romance story from Greek myth in case there's any I missed or wanted to dive deeper into. So first I do a little Google search, see what the varied listicals think are Greek myths most romantic stories, and that's of course where you get things like Hyacynthis and Apollo. You know, the one where the guy gets killed by the frisbee or Odissy is in Penelope, you know, the one where the guy is gone for twenty years and sleeps with a bunch of other women before coming home and tricking his wife. Needless to say, not quite the romances I was hoping for. The list I did look at, though it listed if it's a Nianti, which of course is a favorite of mine, it's romans. It doesn't count with what I wanted. But and you know, I've already told it, which is where this is going, because this list was made exciting by the fact that this random website that I clicked on used my episode on if It's a Nyanthe to describe the list anyway, at least I got an ego boost out of it, even if it was deeply unhelpful. But then I turned to Twitter, and no, I will not call it x. I asked for romance stories from Greek myth that don't end in death, and I got it, well, basically got confirmation that this doesn't exist, at least in the way that I want it, And now you might be thinking, O live now. Now here are some obvious examples to the contrary, and to that, I say, let's look at some of those. See, I'm not saying there aren't happy couples in Greek myth, but instead that there aren't romance stories that feature happy endings, and Greek myth is the key, So Cupid and Psyche doesn't count. People were naming couples like Ares and Aphrodite, or Perseus and Andromeda, Odysseus and Penelope, admotism Alcestis, you know, amid others that didn't fit because again they don't have Greek sources. It's the whole other issue. But see again, these are happy couples, not couples with romance stories that have happy endings. Aries and Aphrodite, while I love them, don't really have a story of romance that ends well. Perseus and Andromeda the same. Their story ends well, but it isn't about their romance. They just get married because he saves her, and Odysseus and Penelope, while like on top of the cheating, the Odyssey is still about Odysseus coming home more than it is about any romance with his wife, like we would not describe the Odyssey as a romance an adventist and Alcestis like I mean, I guess it's closer, but in my books, it isn't romance when the woman dies, because the man can't accept his own fate, even if she does come back to life at the end. The closest that people did suggest was the wonder that is europees is Helen conveniently replayed for you all recently when it comes to that one, though not quite fitting what I want, at least, it's more about my own feelings, like I prefer to think of that play as one of about Helen's liberation and intelligence rather than her romance with her like doult of a husband. Instead, I'm convinced that the consensus is that there are is no story that survives from Greek meth that can both be reasonably called a romance and has a happy ending. And that's kind of the fun of it in its own way, you know, and frankly it fits this week's vibe anyway. So instead we're looking deeper at a story that is entirely Roman but also is so often listed as a Greek myth romance, but in addition to being entirely Roman, is also just fucking weird, and rightly so. Since Friday's conversation is going to be with an amazing PhD student Image in Brisco, Oh my god, we we had so much fun. Image is studying none other than Ovid's pick up artist manual, the rs Amatoria that I think I it was like two years ago that I shared stuff with you guys. Anyway, that's the absolutely bananas work. That's just utterly horrifying. So it seems only right that if you know, if Friday's episode is going to be about how horrifically disturbing and misogynistic that work is, then you know today's can be similar. This is episode two forty eight. He is not all that Pigmalian the misogynist mythological in cell. The passage that I read at the top of the episode is by a man named Clement of Alexandria. He was a Greek Christian philosopher writing in the second century CE, and well, he was pretty interested in criticizing paganism, which is where that passage comes in. He's speaking of people who fell in love with statues and is doing so by criticizing the pagan gods, and frankly, I just want to read it because it seems to have a nice little list of people who fell in love with statues, and even the guy who had sex with one, which we will get back to later. It is important to say that there are multiple references to a man coming on a statue, because men and do not not all men me. If you are a man who wouldn't come on a statue, then you can just assume I'm not talking about you. This is where Pygmalion comes in. Pygmalion is mentioned in a few texts just for being like a king of that area, or you know, being a father to somebody or other. But it is only in our precious of it, its metamorphoses, where we get the good stuff, a story that is not so different from of its oars amatoria. Really, now, I have told this story before, but so long ago, in like a mini myth, and it deserves so much more, and honestly, I just want to talk about it some more, and the statues. We will get to the statues. Besides, we have Stephanie McCarter's translation of the Metamorphoses. Now to be working with, and it feels necessary, not least because, oh my god, her translation of this story is so good. Pygmalion is ostensibly a story of romance. It has been painted and sculpted. It has been retold in poets and fiction, plays and movies. Just a glance at the pieces of reception that are listed on its Wikipedia page gives you a very real sense of just how lasting and loved this story is and was it has been for millennia. There is a Dryden poem, a William Morris poem, Tennyson, and Robert Graves. That's just from the list of poems from England. There are poems on Pygmalion from Scotland and Ireland to Germany and Romania. The list of American reception is incredibly long. There are short stories by Nathaniel Hawthorne, Lovecraft, Updike borhaz Asmob and Matteline Miller. There are novels based on the myth, things like Henry James's Portrait of Lady Didn't Know That. The myth inspired Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale. The list is long. The most famous is probably George Bernardshaw's Pygmillion, on which my fair Lady was then based hell, even Pete Wentz a follow boy, Yeah, millennial icon I suppose has a work listed on Wikipedia as being based on or inspired by Pygmalion, like just the inspiration alone. The list of opera, ballet and music is so long I didn't even dive into it. And of course there's screen adaptations of many of those works that were inspired by this myth, countless Pygmalions, my Fair Lady, even Hitchcock's Vertigo is listed as being thematically linked, and of course, of course the millennial powerhouse filma that is Freddie Prince Junior and Rachel Lee Cook's She's All That. All these stories told over thousands of years in countries all over the world, so many languages and author's so much inspiration from this one short little myth that survives only in of its metamorphoses, A little story that at its heart is ah A story about a man either creating a so called pan because he doesn't like the real women around him or has is so common in these inspired works. The story of a man changing a woman to fit his personal ideal of what a good and lovable woman has to be. That's so fucking romantic. It's no wonder my generation of women has to constantly work on building some version of ourselves that exists beyond the male case, beyond men's imagination of what we should be. Happy fucking Valentine's Day? Am I right? So? What is the actual mythological story of Pygmalion, this piece of work that inspired so many poets and authors and playwrights and screenwriters and directors. Surely it has to have been just beautiful and romantic to have inspired such an unprecedented volume of art over to millennia. It begins, quote Pygmalion watched them pass their lives in crime, and, outraged by the myriad faults that nature gave women's minds, he long lived on his own without a wife and shared his bed with no one. Mm hmmm, m yeah, we're gonna keep going before past judgment, right, Okay, I'm sure it's gonna turn around into something beautiful enough to provide so many muses of inspiration to so many artists. Pigmalian, spending his life hating women for their very nature, their existence, end, and every little thing that went on in their feeble little lady minds, decided to sculpt his own out of Ivory. He was a talented artist, like all those who were inspired by him after the fact, so talented that when he sculpted his ideal woman, he gave her quote beauty with which no woman can be born. Immediately after sculpting such a stunner, the ideal woman, the perfect specimen, well, of course he fell in love with her. Or rather it it's a statue. His biggest qualm with women was their minds. That was made very clear in the story's first lines. So obviously, once he created the most beautiful woman to ever, well, I guess not live. I suppose obviously he would fall in love with his own statue. Because she had no mind, She could not speak, She couldn't nag him or titter in his ear about Sidley trivial things like women are wont to do. Pygmalion fell in love with his silent, mindless Ivory statue, and as one does when one creates their ideal woman, who in no way resembles reality, his first thought was, quote, she looks like a real virgin, alive, you'd think, and wishing to be roused, if not so modest. This is like those ai images of quote unquote traditional families where the nice, big blonde white family is smiling, but also everyone has six fingers and no teeth, you know. Pygmalion spends his days staring at his creation, at his perfect, silent woman. He loves her so much. He wants her to be real, but of course not real, because real women are garbage. He wants her to be real the way he sees her in his mind, silent and without thought or opinion, the perfect woman. He wants this so badly that quote. He often strokes his masterpiece to test whether she's flesh or that same ivory, and won't admit that she is still ivory. The word stroke, I think is doing a lot of work here. And when his strokes prove that she is tragically still made of ivory, he turns to kisses. He kisses his statue, and he imagines she's kissing back. He talks to her, rather talks at her. Ha am I right, And he holds her tight. He imagines his fingers imprint on her flesh. He worries he might bruise, and that perfect skin of hers. Note he does not imagine her speaking back to him, only that she is fleshy as his love grows. Pygmalion starts bringing his perfect fau woman gifts all the things that girls like, obviously, shiny pretty things, flowers and pearls, gems and even well birds. Ladies like birds. Right, He dresses her in beautiful, rich clothes and jewelry. His his perfect mindless woman, looks the part. She is fancy and put together, she will impress all the other men. The perfect woman is a woman who impresses men and keeps her mouth shut. Of course, though he clothes her well quote nude, she is no less beautiful. Pigmalion brings his perfect woman to his bed. He lays her down next to him, make sure her head has a pillow beneath it, and he well all it isn't explicit about what happens next. It's time now for the festival of Venus Aphrodite on the island of Cyprus. The cities are full of celebration. It's Aphrodite's island, after all, we're better to hold a festival to the goddess of beauty and love and sex. There are sacrifices to the goddess, and enduring one such sacrifice, Pygmalion stands next to the altar, and he prays to the goddess quote, if God's you can grant all things, let my wife be. He did not dare to say, my ivory virgin, like my ivory virgin afrodit He heard him, There's no doubt about that. The flames of her altar shot up to the sky and confirmation. And when the festival is over, Pygmalion heads back to his house and quote. Back home, he seeks the statue of his girlfriend. He lays her down on the bed to give her kisses, and she seems warm. Yeah, this dude is totally fine. He's definitely not a proto in cel who is objectively dangerous to the people around him. So he's kissing his statue on his bed as one does, and this time she feels warm. She even feels a little soft. Finally, the ivory does sink under his fingers, as he's always imagined it might. It feels like wax softened by the sun. Very symbolically, you described quote a thumb can bend and mold it into many shapes as it grows more usable with use. Do you think that's only describing the feeling of softened wax. Hmmm, Well, Pygmalion slowly realizing that his girlfriend's statue is perfect, silent and mindless woman whose only flaw was that he couldn't well, you know what, he couldn't really do. He couldn't fuck her. I'm not sure why I'm pretending to be coy. His only complaint was that he couldn't fuck her. Let's read between the lines here. But now she is real, She's alive. Pygmalion feels her pulse and immediately sends out prayers of thanks to Afro a tity for so obviously heeding his request. And then, well, you know, he's got work to do. Quote he kissed real lips at last. Feeling his kiss, the virgin blushed, raising scared eyes to heaven. She saw her lover and the sky at once. And then well, nine months later a child was born, so you know. But no, no, we are not told that she ever speaks a single word. She's still perfect, after all, a perfect, mindless, silent woman who's more beautiful than any other and is now well fleshy. So that, my friends, is the beautiful and romantic and heartwarming story that inspired so many artists and poets so to millennia as someone who grew up watching My Fair Lady, and also she's all that. I don't love it. It's not ideal. There's a statue that was found on the island of Canidos in modern Turkey. It was believed to be one of the most beautiful statues ever created in the ancient Greek world. Of course, it was of Eportite, because who else could be so beautiful except while like apparently a woman named Freeny, who was said to be the muse, the model even for this statue by the famed sculptor Praxateles. You might remember this name and the statue a little bit from a conversation I had towards the end of last year time as a flat circle with Melissa Funky. Go listen to that if you haven't. It was so good. She was so famously beautiful that Plato wrote a line where Aphrodite herself saw the statue and asked when it was that Practicellis saw her naked, but he was able to sculpt with you know, such accuracy. Another poet said that while Practicellis may not have seen the godess naked, he instead created what he knew that airies would have wanted to see you. You know, the statue probably are like a copy of its pose. She's got her hand covering her bits, but otherwise like just let it all hang out. But the original piece was it was said to have a stain on it. And thank the gods, there is a work attributed to Lucian of Semisada. You remember him. He wrote about people going to the moon. It was amazing. That presents a fictionalized visit to this temple where the statue was, and these people viewing the statue. I'm not going to provide all the details of who they are the story, but basically the story behind this stain is told to these people and it's good. So I'm going to finish off today's episode on men who want to fuck statues of women because they hate real women by reading it to you. In the midst thereof sits the goddess. She's a most beautiful statue of parry and marble, arrogantly smiling a little as a grin parts, her lips draped by no garment. All her beauty is uncovered and revealed, except in so far as she unobtrusively uses one hand to hide her private parts. So great was the power of the craftsman art that the hard, unyielding marble did justice to every limb caracles at any rate, raised a mad, distracted cry and exclaimed, happiest indeed of the gods was Ares, who suffered chains because of her. And as he spoke, he ran up, and, stretching out his neck as far as he could, started to kiss the goddess with importunate lips. Calikratidas stood by in silence, with amazement in his heart. The temple had a door on both sides for the benefit of those also who wished to have a good view of the goddess from behind, so that no part of her be left unadmired. It's easy therefore for people to enter by the other door and survey the beauty of her back. And so we decided to see all the goddess and went round to the back of the precinct. Then, when the door had been opened by the woman responsible for keeping the keys, we were filled with an immediate wonder for the beauty we beheld. The Athenian, who had been so impassive an observer a minute before, upon inspecting those parts of the goddess which recommend a boy, suddenly raised a shout far more frenzied than that of Caracles, Heracles. He exclaimed, what a wealth proportioned back, what generous flanks she has, how satisfying an armful to embrace, How delicately molded the flesh on the buttocks, neither too thin and close to the bone, nor yet revealing too great an expanse of fat. And for those precious parts sealed in on either side by the hips, how inexpressibly sweetly they smile. How perfect the proportions of the thighs and the shins as they stretched down in a straight line to the feet. So that's what Ganymede looks like as he pours out the nectar in heaven for Zeus and makes it taste sweeter. For I'd never taken the cup from hebe if she served me. When Calikratidas was shouting this, under the spell of the goddess Chracles, in the excess of his admiration, stood almost petrified, though his emotions showed in the melting tears trickling from his eyes. When we could admire no more, we noticed a mark on one thigh, like a stain on a dress. The unsightliness of this was shown up by the brightness of the marble everywhere else. I, therefore, hazarding a plausible guess about the truth of the matter, supposed that what we saw was a natural defect in the marble. For even such things as these are subject to accident, and many potential masterpieces of beauty are thwarted by bad luck. And so, thinking the black mark to be a natural blemish, I found in this too cause to admire Prexateles for having hidden what was unsightly in the marble in the parts less able to be examined closely. But the attendant woman who was standing near us, told a strange, incredible story. For she said that a young man of not undistinguished family, though his deed has caused him to be left nameless, who often visited the precinct, was so ill starred as to fall in love with the Goddess. He would spend all day in the temples, and at first gave the impression of pious awe, for in the morning he would leave his bed long before dawn to go to the temple, and only return home reluctantly after sunset. All day long he would sit facing the goddess with his eyes fixed uninterruptedly upon her, whispering indistinctly and carrying on a lover's complaints in secret conversation. But when he wished to give himself some little comfort from his suffering, after first addressing the Goddess, he would count out on the table four knuckle bones of a Libyan gazelle and take a gamble on his expectations. If he made a successful throw, and particularly if ever he was blessed with the throw named after the Goddess herself, and no dice showed the same face, he would prostrate himself before the Goddess, thinking he would gain his desire. But if, as usually happens, he made an indifferent throw onto his table and the dice revealed an unpropitious result, he would curse all canidos and show utter dejection, as if at an imremediable disaster. But a minute later he would snatch up the dice and try to cure by another throw his earlier lack of success. But presently, as his passion grew more inflamed, every wall came to be inscribed with his messages, and the bark of every tender tree told of fair Aphrodite, Praxiteles was honored by him as much as Zeus, and every beautiful treasure that his home guarded was offered to the goddess. In the end, the violent tension of his desires turned to desperation, and he found in Audeat a procurer for his lusts. For when the sun was now sinking to its setting, quietly and unnoticed by those present, he slipped in behind the door, and, standing invisible in the inmost part of the chamber, he kept still, hardly even breathing. When the attendants closed the door from the outside in the normal way, this new anchises was locked in. But why do I chatter on and tell you every detail the reckless deed of that unmentionable night. These marks of his amorous embraces were seen after day came, and the goddess had that blemish to prove what she'd suffered. The youth concerned is said, according to the popular story, told to have hurled himself over a cliff or down into the waves of the sea, and to have vanished utterly. Have I mentioned how much I love the ancient world? That's one of the most absurd things I've ever read. I it was that was a joy. Thank you all so much for listening. This was a very fun episode to write to get me like back into the love of the show and like what a I mean horrifying story honestly Pygmalion, I mean the others mostly the most bizarre and hilarious thing I've ever read Pygmalion, though like few like I am. I'm so thrilled to have had Stephanie mccartter's translation, because I have a feeling that, like maybe the man who've translated it in the past didn't necessarily see like all the levels of gross in know abits writing there like it is wild, truly unhinged behavior reminds me way way too much of the whole Incell Realm, the whole the woe is Me, no woman likes me, when the truth is that it's because they want to be able to treat women like mindless voiceless statues like no they don't like you, don't be awful. And now that I'm back writing regular episodes, we are also back to reading a five star review from one of you amazing listeners. Honestly, I haven't gotten many new ones lately. This one's quite old, so you know like feel free to leave one to make my crumbling life just like a little bit brighter. No pressure though. This review comes from a user called Greamy Girl twenty one from Australia. The catapult of my love into Greek myths. I have loved Greek mythology since I can remember, but when I discovered Lives podcast many years ago, my obsession truly began. I've been listening to this podcast since pretty early on and have listened to her grow and evolved with every year. I used to enjoy the myths, but I've since learned so much about ancient Greece and beyond with Live's constant educational content and conversation episodes. Not only has this podcast brought me so much joy throughout the years, but I often feel like I'm having a conversation with her myself while listening. A number of years ago, I had the pleasure of traveling to Greece, working on farms and backpacking through some of the most mythological historical places on the mainland. The whole time Live was with me and my headphones, and that felt pretty special. Not to mention here that review was a fucking joy. Thank you, like thank you so much. I read that also like it's old, So I read it during a particularly dark level of sad last month and it helped a lot, and I couldn't wait till I was writing again so I could read it on the show. So truly, whoever you are, Greeny girl, thank you so fucking much. Let's talk about this baby is written and produced by me Live Albert MICHAELA. Smith These the Hermes to My Olympians, better known as the assistant producer. Laura Smith is now the production assistant and audio engineer. Select music used in this episode was by Luke Chaos. The podcast is part of the iHeart Podcast Network. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the Agent Mediterranean by becoming a patron where you get bonus episodes and more. Plus you just help me visit patreon, dot com, slash mits maybe quickly link in the episode description, I am liv and I love this shit like even when it's absurdly wildly ridiculous misogyny, because, like fuck knows, I want to share it so we could make fun of the problematic men together like a team