The finale of Seneca's Thyestes is just... horror, from start to finish. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. And this one features *graphic* infanticide and cannibalism... Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Sources: Seneca's Thyestes, primarily the version translation by Emily Wilson with long passages quoted from the Frank Justus Miller.
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
On the summit of the citadel. A part of Pelops's palace faces south. Its farthest side rises to mountainous height, and overlooks the city, having beneath its menaced the people insolent to their kings. Here gleams the great hall that could contain a multitude, whose gilded architrave's columns glorious with varied hues uphold. Behind this general hall, which nations throng, the gorgeous palace stretches out over many a space and deep. Withdrawn there lies a secret spot, containing, in a deep valley, an ancient grove, the kingdom's innermost retreat. Here no tree ever affords cheerful shade, or is prune by any knife. But the ye tree and the cypress and woods of gloomy ilex trees wave obscure, above which, towering high, an oak looks down and overtops the grove. From this spot, the sons of Tantalus are wont to enter on their reign. Here to seek aid midst calamity and doubt. Here hang their votive gifts, resounding trumpets and broken chariots, spoils of the mertoan sea, and wheels overcome by treacherous axel trees hang there and memorials of the races. Every crime in this place is Pelops's Phrygian cap hung here, spoils of the enemy and the embroidered robe token of triumph over barbaric foes. Oh hi, hello there, this is let's talk about myths, baby, and I am your host live here, with the final episode covering the very Roman version of one of the darkest and most horrifying stories from Greek myth, the murderous and cannibalistic revenge plot forced cannibalistic, i should say, revenge plot of Atreus, King of Mycenie, which seems like as good a time as any to remind you of today's very specific trigger warnings, which is basically that there are going to be some kids killed and eaten and it will be graphic graphic. This is Seneca writing Greek myth and spooky season. After all, it is really very horrific and absolutely disgusting. I love it, but well maybe you won't, so take care. Let's resituate ourselves, shall we before we close this fucked up chapter. In the Royal House of myceni a house that is not finished with its familial horror and violence. It's just going to move on to another generation once this one is sordid. It began with Tantalus, a king of the East and a child of Zeus. He got haughty, cubristicingly, on a whim, decided he'd invite the gods to a feast at his home and feed them a special dish of his son Pelops. This, as you well know, was the last time the gods ever dined at immortals home. They restored Pelops, giving him a new life, and he went on to do a couple other little murders, as one does, before giving his name to the Peloponnese and taking hold of the royal house of Myceni. He then had two sons, Atreus and Thiistes. They fought for the kingdom, brother against brother, not in hand to hand combat, but well. Thiistes seduced Atrius's wife, stole her away from him, and used her to take the throne from his brother. Atrius eventually got it back and he banished Thiestes to a life of exile until well right now, Thiistes has returned with his two sons, and he believes that not only has his brother forgiven him, but he's offering him half of the kingdom. Thiistes doesn't want it. He just wants to be welcomed back home, but Atreus insists. Seneca's Thistes began with a Fury on the stay, conversing with the ghost of Tantalus, brought from his eternal punishment in the underworld to help and watch as his grandsons destroy each other. The fury Maghera had a grand time plotting what would happen in the house, imagining all the worst crimes, crimes that she would cackle with joy to witness before taking on her role as one of the areunaways. The furies goddesses of vengeance, but they are not just goddesses of any old vengeance. They play a very very specific role in the punishment of crimes. They punish people who commit crimes against family members. In the myth itself, Atreus would enact his revenge against Thyestes regardless of whether there was a Fury there cheering him on from the sidelines, though he never sees her. But the way Seneca's story is told, the Furies feels vital to the entire plot. Seneca seems to theorize on what would make Atreus this? Does anyone really come up with a plot so horrific all on their own? Can anyone truly imagine doing something that horrible just because they're angry at their brother? Or does it take a Fury herself to set it all in motion? They began the play together, not just laying out the horror that was to come, but fighting over it. The ghost of Tantalus doesn't want to destroy his family line, he doesn't want to inflict more horror upon them. But the Fury, cause, the Fury makes it all so tempting. She makes him want it, or makes it just impossible for him to resist it. And yet neither of them do anything explicit that suggests that they're the reason why Atreus is going to do what he's going to do. The Fury doesn't reappear in the play. She only interacts with the ghost of Tantalus, and frankly, that just adds to both of their impact. It does, however, mean that I don't get the chance to quote from her again. But I'm not ready for her to be gone. Well, let's remember her last lines to the ghost of Tantalus. The last moments she has to call for the violence of Atreus, for the destruction of Thiestes, for the furtherance of the curse on the royal house of Myceni, because she makes it count. This very rage of yours distributes throughout your house, so even as you may, they be driven on raging to quench their thirst, each in the other's blood. Your house feels your approach, and it has shrunk in utter horror from your accursed touch. Enough, more than enough, go you to the infernal caves and well known streams. Now is the grieving earth, weary of your presence. Presence. This is episode two thirty four. Children make for a very impious meal. Seneca's Thyestes, Part three. Such things are past belief Atreus. There, the fierce and savage, reckless of soul, and cruel at sight of his brother, stood as one amazed. There is no power stronger than true love. Angry strife between strangers does endure, But whom true love has bound, it will bind forever. When wreath by great causes roused, has burnt friendships, bonds, and sounded alarms of war, when fleet squadrons with ringing bridles come, when the brandished sword gleams now here now there which the mad god of war, thirsting for fresh flowing blood, wields with the rain of blows. Then will love stay the wheel and lead men, even against their will, to the clasped hands of peace. The chorus has fallen for Atreus's trap just as well as Thiestes has. They're convinced. You can see in this opening of their ode that I just read that Atreus has forgiven his brother for everything. That one look at his sibling was all it took for him to see past everything that's happened before. They believe Atreus's words that he has set his anger aside, that he has welcomed his brother home with open arms, that all is forgiven and they can be a happy family. That brother will rule with brother, and the cousins will become fast friends, become like brothers themselves. Everything is right in my scene. All is well. The chorus is thrilled, relieved. They can now celebrate this return of Thiestes after so long in exile, so long with these brothers separated by their hatred. But it's all over now, or well it's not. But the chorus and Thistes sure think that it is alone on the stage. Now, with both brothers and the two boys having gone into the palace, the chorus goes on, they wonder what God was able to achieve this after such strife. They tell the audience that just before Thiestes returned, all of Mycenie was preparing for a civil war, that the citizens were preparing, that the men preparing to head to battle if they had to, even though their weapons were old and rusty from so many years of peace. They were mending the palace, the walls of the city, just preparing for the worst. And yet now the chorus determines that there was no need for them to panic. Atreas and Thiistes will not be fighting. There will be no violence that they'd all expected. All is going to be well. There's still going to be peace in Mycene, only now real and much better. Piece between brothers, the chorus sings of change, how nothing lasts, not the good or the bad. Everything is fleeting, and everything strong eventually becomes weak. Quote. No one should trust too much in his good fortune, no one should give up hope of better luck. Clotho mixes good with bad and stops fortune from standing still. Each man's fate rolls around. The chorus makes it very clear the fates Clotho among them, don't work for anyone. Fortune can turn when you least expect it. And of course this isn't just a song for the sake of it, it's a cue. When the chorus finishes their song, a messenger arrives on the stage. He sets the mood immediately, calling out to the sky, asking what possible wind could come and just sweep him away, in case him in clouds, to quote, tear my eyes away from such abomination. This house would make blush even Pelops and Tantalus. It's happened, then we know it. The audience would know it. But it's the chorus who's yet to understand exactly what has happened in the house of Atreus to their royal family. And frankly, even we and the audience could never have imagined how Seneca will have made it happen. The messenger is not all right. He's messy, he's unsure where he is, he's shaken up by what he knows. He asks the chorus where he is, though surely he knows. What he wants to know is how something like this could happen. In a place like Mycenie. Maybe somehow he's ended up somewhere else, in some barbarian land of the east where it's something like this could even have in that's right, they've got to throw in just a hint of xenophobia for good measure. But no, Messenger, this is very much still my scene. This is a very Greek thing to do. The chorus tries to drag the news out of him. He's talking in riddles, seeking any means of just not being there, not holding on to this news. But finally he relents and he tells them what he knows. The speech I read before the episode began. That's how the Messenger opens his speech to the chorus. He tells them about this secret space attached to the palace. It's an ancient grove, hidden away, so hidden that it isn't reached by the palace servants. No one touches the trees there they grow wild. It's there that the line of Tantalus takes up their rain over the city. It's there that they go for guidance when things look bad. The grove holds mementoes of the past, the trumpet that started the race between Pelops and Anymaeus hangs from a tree, so does the latter's broken chariot, the cause of his death and the reason Pelops was able to marry his wife Hyppodamia, how they could go on to have their two sons, Atreus and Thiestes. The tree holds the whole family history. It even holds the remnants of Pelops's Eastern origins, the hat or headdress that he wore before he came to Greece and reigned over Myceni. There in the grove there is also a dark spring, quote a black and stagnant pool, most like the ugly water of terrible Sticks by which the gods swear faith. A dismal spring starts forth beneath the shadow, and a sluggish black pool creeps along. Such are the ugly waters of dread sticks, on which the gods take oath. It's said that from this place, in the dark night, the gods of death make moan with clanking chains. The grove resounds, and the ghosts howl mournfully whatever is dreadful, But to hear there is seen throngs of the long since dead come forth from their ancient tombs and walk abroad, and creatures more monstrous than men have known spring from the place. Nay More, through all the wood flames go flickering, and the lofty beams glow without the help of fire. Often the grove re echoes with three throated bayings. Often the house is of right with huge ghostly shapes. Nor is terror allayed by day. The grove is night unto itself, and the horror of the underworld rains even at midday. From this spot. Sure responses are given to those who seek oracles. With thundering noise, The fates are uttered from the shrine, and the cavern roars when the god sends forth his voice. The messenger goes on in his description of this place, it is both sacred, vital to the kingdom of Mycenae, and where the kings go to feel connected to their land. Then it is dark and dreary and ominous, and frankly just screams for horrific things to happen in it. He tells the chorus that rumors say that sounds are heard from the grove, the groans of spirits at night. Quote all things that make one shudder even to hear are made visible. He says that in the growth tombs burst open, and from them the living dead escape. Flames sparkle, though nothing burns. Phantoms curse the space. The light of day doesn't even reach this grove. It's as though it is perpetually night. This is where Atreus brought Thiestes's two children. The messenger goes on to tell the chorus quote, the altars are adorned. How can I say this? The little princes have their hands tied back. He binds their poor little heads with a purple band. The messenger goes on to explain how Atreus did it, not just the act itself, but what it meant. This wasn't just a killing. It wasn't just murder. It was a sacrifice. Atreus turned it into a ritualisting killing. He set it up as though they weren't children that he was killing, but some beast meant for slaughter. Incense burned, wine was poured in libation. Quote all due ritual was observed in case such a horrible crime can be done properly. The chorus asks the messenger, just who was holding the knife? I can't help but quote a longer passage here. So this is the miller translation. He is priest himself. He with baleful prayer, chance the death song with boisterous utterance. He stands by the altar. He handles those doomed to death, sets them in order, and lays hand upon the knife himself attends to all. No part of the sacred right is left undone. The grove begins to tremble. The whole palace ways from the quaking earth, uncertain where to fling its weight, and seems to waver. From the left quarter of the sky rushes a star dragging a murky trail. The wine poured upon the fire changes from wine and flows as blood from the king's head falls the crown twice and again. The ivory statues in the temples weep. These portents moved all but Atreus, alone, true to his purpose, stands and even scares the threatening gods. Even the grove doesn't want Atreus to do what he is going to do. Even nature and the gods are recoiling at what this man is planning. All of these details that the messenger provides are meant to emphasize, in these strongest possible terms, just what a crime this is. It is beyond the pale, It's unimaginable, it is quite literally the worst thing a person could do. Everyone knows it, and yet Atreus just keeps going. Even his crown, the symbol of his rulership over Myceni, doesn't stay on his head as he does this, even it is revolting from his touch. The messenger continues. He tells the chorus that in that moment Atreus stood looking at the boys. He stared at them, flitting between the two quote from the Wilson again, he wonders which to slaughter first and which to butcher second. It makes no difference, but he ponders and enjoys order in brutality. When the chorus asked, the messenger told them it was Tantalus Junior that he killed first, and this is Seneca. So the chorus then asks the messenger to explain how the boy looked when he was murdered by his uncle. He stood strong, he tells them, he didn't waste words trying to plead for his life before Atreus plunged his sword into the boy's body. It wasn't instantaneous, but eventually the boy's body collapsed back on to Atreus, and then he did the same to place the knees, dragging him to the altar and sacrificing him like an animal, cutting off his head and letting it fall to the ground. But he wasn't done. Atreus was mad with rage, completely overcome and lost in his own fury, quote holding out the sword drenched in the two boy's blood, careless where his fury leads him, cruelly drives the blade into the chest of the child, right through, and the blood that poured from the boys put out the fires that surrounded them. And when the chorus screams out in horror, calling the act one of savagery, the messenger asks them, did you think that would be it? If that was the case, Atreus would be almost divine. No, the messenger tells the chorus, that was just the first step in Atreus's crimes, Oh crime incredible to any age, which coming generations will deny. Torn from the still living breasts, the vitals quiver, the lung still breathe, and the fluttering heart still beats, but he handles the organs and inquires the fates and notes the markings of the still warm entrails. When he has satisfied himself with the victims, he is now free to prepare his brother's banquet. With his own hands. He cuts the body into parts, severs the broad shoulders at the trunk, and cuts through the arms. Heartlessly, strips off the flesh and severs the bones. The heads only he saves, and the hands that have been given to him in pledge of faith. Some of the flesh is fixed on spits and set before slow fires, pangs, dripping other parts boiling waters, tosses in heated kettles. The fire over leaps the feast that is set before it, and twice and again thrown back upon the shuddering hearth, and forced to tarry there, burns grudgingly. The liver sputters on the spits. Nor could I well say whether the bodies or the flames made louder groans. The fire dies to down in pitchy smoke, and the smoke itself, a gloomy and heavy smudge, does not rise straight up and lift itself in air upon the household gods themselves in disfiguring cloud it settles. Did I need to read you all that incredibly graphic scene, one that I think I could convincingly argue is the most horrific scene of all ancient tragedy. No, I did not need to do that, But gods, did I want to? This play is so fucked up? Should I feel badly over how much I love it? Because I don't. When the chorus asks the Messenger what it was that Atreus did next? Did he dare refuse burial to the corpses, because that is the worst thing that they can think of, refusing burial? No, the Messenger says, I wish he'd left them on the earth to rot. That would be a mercy. And he goes on detailing everything that Atrian did to the children in the speech that I just read. And now that's not even the full speech. I just couldn't even justify quoting anymore. But he does go on. He calls to the sun itself, saying it's set too late to stop what was going to happen. Quote the father rips apart his son's putting into his murderous mouth, his own dear flesh and blood. His hair is wet and shiny with perfume, his body heavy with wine, His mouth is overstuffed, his jaws can hardly hold new morsels. Oh thiestes, The Messenger goes on, you are lucky to be ignorant of what you've just done. It's too bad that the day even had to begin at all. If only the sun could take it back, hide all of the horrific crimes under this cover of darkness quote, but we must see this evil All is now revealed, With all of this news now forced on them, all of the horror of Atreus's vengeance revealed. The chorus sings. They sing of darkness, literal and metaphorical. They sing of the darkness that has descended on the kingdom of Myceni. It is as though day has turned to night. And what it takes for the gods to cause such a thing? Has the chariot gone off its track? How does that happen? Quote? Is Hell's dungeon opened to reveal the conquered giants in a new attempt at war? They go on. They ask if the punished Titius has healed his wounds and his rage has been restored. They ask if Typhon has freed himself, if he is stretching all of his limbs into the air. Have those who were vanquished on the flaggery and field where the gods fought those giants? Have they returned and forced the mountains from their prison gates. Does this mark an end to dawn and dusk? They say that the sun, as he was setting into the west, has been surprised by the dawn. Everything is wrong, The world is off its kilter. The crimes that have just been committed are so horrible that nothing can remain as it was. The earth might as well have stopped spinning. It is not something one worries lightly that the god's will or already have abandoned humanity entirely because of what Atreus has done. The chorus of Mycenaeans fear that this might mean the end of everything, that the world itself will collapse into chaos, the sea might swallow the earth, that the sun will never shine again, the moon will never shine in the night day quote, the mass of gods will be heaped away into a single chasm. They wonder if the constellations of the zodiac and beyond will change their shape, if they will be lost entirely. Quote we were born for a cruel lot, whether we poor things have lost the Sun or forced him into exile. And then Atreus returns to the stage and gods, is he proud of himself as a peer of the stars. I move and towering over all touch with proud head the lofty heavens. Now the glory of the realm I hold now my father's throne. I release the gods for the utmost of my prayers have high attained. It's well, it's more than well, And now it's enough even for me. But why enough? No? I will go forward, even though the Father is full fed with his dead sons. That shape might not hold me back. They has departed on, while heaven is tenantless. Oh that I might stay. The fleeing deities might force and draw them here, that they might all see the avenging feast. But it's enough if the Father sees, even though daylight refuses me aid, I'll dispel the darkness from you beneath which your woes are lurking. Too long you lied at feast with care free and cheerful countenance. Now enough time has been given to tables, enough to whine for such monstrous ills. There needs thyestes sober. Even Atreus considers that the gods have fled the heavens because of what he's done, but he's not worried about it like the chorus is. Instead, he wishes that he could have held them back, forced them to watch this feast of Thiestes. But it's okay. He thinks, as long as Thiestes is there, h he'll be satisfied. And of course Thiastes is there. Atreus is speaking. Now, after they have feasted together, Thiestes' is belly is full, he is satiated and full of wine, among other things. Now it's time for the party to start. Atreus directs his slaves to open the palace to reveal Thistes at the banquet table, where he's a little out of it. Actually, he's so full of food and wine, so overcome by being home after so long. Atreas speaks to his slaves, quote, how sweet to watch him looking at his children's heads, How sweet to see his altered face. To hear him as his first grief gushes out, Atrius is just he's so excited for this reveal. I'm so excited for the show, and tell that he's about to put Thiestes through. He's so full of joy watching his brother. He talks about him being so full that he lets out a belch that he's actually quite drunk, almost sloppy drunk from the wine. Wine. That oh look, he says, Thiestes is having another sip of wine. Wonderful. Quote the vintage wine camouflages the blood. May this drink right here, right now, round off his meal, a cocktail of his children's blood.
Okay.
Finally Thiestes speaks, and he's relieved. Quote away with grief, away with fear, with that companion of my exile. He's just happy to be home, he goes on, quote the sense of loss is worse than suffering. Good for me. Phew, Seneca, you are really twisting that knife, aren't you. Diastes continue speaking. He's talking about how he really should be happy because everything that's happened was all that he's wanted. He's home, he's been welcomed. He should be so relieved. So why is he feeling so off? He starts talking about how he's he's having trouble showing any sort of happiness, how he can't seem to revel in the joy that he obviously should feel. Why is why is he in pain for no reason? Why is he crying for no reason? He talks about he has that he has an inexplicable desire to tear at his royal clothes, to destroy them, to scream and grown. Quote the mind gives indications of a grief to come profit of its future pain. Seneca does he knows what he's doing, while Thiestes is on the surface entirely ignorant of what's happened to his children. He's having like bodily reactions that tell him that something is horrifically wrong, even if he doesn't know what it is yet. He's fighting with these feelings though like he doesn't understand them. He's just sad and terrified for no reason. Quote there is no cause. Is it grief or fear? Or does great pleasure make me cry? Hatreus, though, isn't revealing himself yet, he wants Thiestes to be even deeper into his celebrations. He calls to his brother that they need to celebrate such a great day quote today my throne is solid and we are bound in solid trust, sure peace, to which Thistes notes that he's full of food, full of wine, and quote the only thing that could increase my pleasure as if my boys could join me in my joy. Oh your boys are here now, don't you worry, Atreus tells Thiestes. Quote they are here and always will be no part of your children can ever be taken from you. Then Atreus tells Thiestes that he will He will bring him the faces of his sons that you know that he longs to see. Just now. They're with my own sons. They're enjoying the feast. But I'll bring them in here. He adds, quote, have a drink. This is a family cup. That Thiistes moves to take a drink from the cup with the wine that's not just wine, raising the glass in honor of his brother. But something's wrong. His hands won't seem to hold the cup to his mouth when he tries to take a drink, that the wine pours out and spills, and he doesn't get a drop. How frustrating, he says, Why is he having so much trouble with what should be such an easy thing? And these are Thiestes's next words from the Miller translation. The lifted wine recoils from my very lips, around my gaping jaws, cheating my mouth. It flows, and the very table leaps up from the trampling floor. The lights burn dim, Know that the very heavens grow heavy. Stand in amazement between day and night, deserted. What next now more, still more, the vault of the shattered sky is tottering. A thicker gloom with dense shades is gathering, and night has hidden away in a blacker night. Every star is in full flight. Whatever it is, I beg it may spare my brother and my son's, and may storm break with all its force on this vile head. Give back now my son's to me, So Atrius does. He goes inside, and he returns with a covered platter, while Thistes waits, his stomach rumbling and churning his body, rejecting the food and wine that he has just gorged himself on. And when Atreus has returned with that platter, he removes the cover, revealing the severed heads of Thiestes's two children, and tells his brother, quote, get ready to hug your children. They're here already.
Do you not recognize them?
I recognize my brother. Can you endure o earth to bear a crime so monstrous? Why does it not burst asunder and plunge you down to the infernal stitgy in shades and by a huge opening to void chaos, snatch this kingdom with its king away? Why does it not raise this whole palace to the very ground and overturn myceni. We should, both of us, long since have been with Tantalus rend asunder your prison bars on every side. And if there is any place beneath Tartarus and our grandsires bear with huge abyss, let down your chasm and hide us buried beneath all Asheron. Let guilty souls wander above our heads, and let fiery Phleagathon with glowing flood down, pouring all his sands flow tempestuous above our place of exile. But the earth, all unmoved and insensate mass. The gods have fled away, needless to say yes. Thiistes recognizes his sons as his brother holds their severed heads before him. Oh aren't you happy, Atreus taunts his brother. You wanted your children here they are, and now why don't you give them a kiss and a hug? Thistes, I mean God's I think he's just in shock, or his body has already prepared him to face this, because he only wants his brother to let him bury his son's bodies. He knows there's nothing left to be done for them now, but it's too late to save them. But he can give them peace. He can bury their bodies if Atreus will allow that, after what he's done. But all that Atreus did is now revealed, because he tells Thiestes quote, you have all that remains of your children, and even what does not What Thiistes asks, are their bodies left somewhere to be eaten by wild animals, to which Atreus just says, quote, you are the one who feasted on your son's ugh thisds groans. It was this that made the gods turn away from us. It was this that gave us night when it should be day. How is it even possible to mourn them now? Quote these are the parts that even their greedy father did not have room for. Inside my belly, they heave. The horror struggles to escape, there is no exit. Thiistes makes a move now to take Atreus's sword. He talks about thrusting it into his own chest so that he can join his sons, but he can't. The sword won't do it. He wants to tear at himself, to beat at himself, but he can't because that would be unkind to his son's bodies, which are now fused with his own. Quote, Look, my children and I weigh down one another. The crime at least is balanced. But no, Atreus does not think that even this was enough to repay Thiistes for his crimes. Quote, even this is too little for me. I should have poured hot blood into your mouth directly from their wounds, to make you drink them alive. He talks about how he was too impatient in his rage to do such a thing, even though he wished he had. Now he rushed himself to the salaughter, the sacrifice Thyestes' children. He tells Thiastes how he dismembered just how he cut them up into little pieces quote which I plunged into the boiling pots and had them simmered on a gentle heat. He tells Thiistes that he cut the muscles off of their arms and legs and skewered them on spits. But he says, my vengeance was a failure. It would have been so much better had Thiistes done it all himself. Quote. The wicked father munched up his sons, but did not know it, nor did they. Thiistes replied to his brother, to this horrific news, and even more horrific sight is his final speech in the play, and it needs to be read, So here's the miller translation. Here, Oh you sees by shifting shores imprisoned, and you too hear this crime. Wherever you have fled, you gods, here, lords of the underworld. Here, lands and night heavy with black tartarian fogs, give ear to my cries to you and I abandoned. Only you have looked on my woe. You've also been forsaken by the stars. No wicked, Please, will I make not for myself? Implore? And what now can I ask on my own?
Behalf?
For you? Shall my prayers be offered, Oh you, exalted ruler of the sky, who sits in majesty upon the throne of heaven, And wrap the whole universe in awful clouds, Set the winds warring on every hand, and from every quarter of the sky. Let the loud thunders roll. Not with what hand you seek houses and undeserving homes using your lesser bolts, but with the hand by which the threefold mass of mountains fell, and the giants who stood level with the mountains these arms let loose and hurl your fires. Make compensation for the banished day. Brandish your flames, and the light that was snatched from heaven with your lightnings flash supply let the cause lest you hesitate too long. Of each one of us be evil, If not, let mine be evil. Aim yours at me through this heart, send your three forked flaming bolt. If I their father could give my sons a burial and commit them to funeral flames, I must be myself be burned. But if nothing moves the gods, and no divinity hurls darts against the impious, may night stay on forever and cover with endless darkness, boundless crimes. No protest do I make o sun? If you'd stay where you are. Oh there it is, Atreus says, there's my real prize. This would have been a waste if you weren't in pain like you are now. Atrius even seems to think that this confirms the paternity of his own sons, that this restores his marriage, and when Thiistes asks what his sons could possibly have done to deserve such a fate, he just says, well, they were your sons. Atrians says, I, Well, I'm convinced that he's he's somehow possessed by this fury because he seems to just devolve into full blown delusion. He tells Thiistes that he's not heard about losing his sons. He's hurt because Atreus got to his plan first. He claims that Thiastes would have and even planned to do the same thing to him, quote, you have the plan to lay out the same menu for your credulous brother, to make their mother help attack the children and kill them the same way. Only this stopped you. You thought they were yours. Yes, Atreus believes that thy yests would have done exactly the same thing. The only reason that he didn't already murder and carve up Agamemnon and Menelaus with the help of their mother was because Thiestes thought that they were his sons and not Atreus's. Thiastes is not about to argue with this man. He's too far gone, both of them are. Instead, he just says that he will leave his brother to the punishment of the gods. They will take their revenge. The furies will come for him, surely, to which Atreus replies with the last line of the play, quote and for your punishment, I give you your children. That play was so fucked up it was so fucked up. I don't even know how to fathom how fucked up that was. Holy shit, I'm never getting over this. I love that so much. Truly, that was worse than any horror movie I could name. It was. It was laid out so beautifully, the suspense was incredible. Like the speeches, Oh, the speeches. Honestly, I don't even I don't even have more to say now, because I'm just like, I'm too in awe of how fucking fucked that was. So thank you for listening. I just I love Seneca, I guess, and I certainly love Spooky season and having any reason to make.
Episodes like this.
Now. A couple just quick translation notes. Every time I've quoted something without like clarifying that it's a quote, it's always the long passages, and usually you know, before the episode or after music or something. That's always been the Frank Justice Miller translation. That's the one that's out of copyright, and thus I can read it however much I want. I've also adapted it in small ways just to make it easier to understand or cut it for length. But thank fuck we have that translation though, Because Seneca speeches, they're too good to avoid quoting at length. But all the other shorter quotes and the translation that I've been referring to for like all of the details themselves is Emily Wilson's this edition though too. It's really great and it's affordable if you're interested. It's the Oxford Classics and it has this play and his madea and more highly recommend. I do have the ebook and it was like nine bucks. I don't know how much more the print, but I imagine it's still pretty affordable. And finishing off with a review from one of you amazing people. This comes from the very seasonally appropriate username goth ghost King in the States. Let's talk ab outmits maybe is amazing. I just recently started listening, but I love this podcast. I've been into mythology since first grade, and this podcast is an amazing source for it. I love all of the sarcasm and how Live calls out all the sexism and toxic masculinity and the various other problems. Greek mythology is amazing, but let's face it, it's got some problems. I also love how she mentions Achilles and Patrick Less probably being in a relationship, and how this podcast is like, Hey, being gay isn't a new thing. I just love this podcast so much. Thank you so much for that review. That was really lovely. It made my day. May all make my day consider leaving one. This episode featured brand new, custom created magnificent music. It is by Luke Chaos and Luke came through and completely rushed this so that it could would be in this episode of all episodes, So thank you. Let's talk go. Mis Baby is written and produced by me Clave Albert MICHAELA. Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians, my assistant producer. The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeartMedia. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron, where you'll get bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com slash myths Baby, or click the link in this episode's description. I am liv and I love this shit even but it's one of the most horrible and disgusting things I've ever read into a microphone.
Thank you.
Seneca S.