As an extension of the podcast series, the producers would like to share the full interviews of our subjects from the series. Their accounts and memories offer a fascinating look into the legacy of Len Bias. We begin the interview series with a look at the effects of the drug laws that were changed following the death of Bias. Dave Ngrady, executive producer of the series, interviews Dorothy Gaines, a victim of overzealous prosecution and mandatory minimum sentencing which sent her to prison for a crime she did not commit. Dorothy shares her personal and tragic family story on how the death of Len Bias shook her family to the core and how it still continues to affect their lives to this day. Dorothy is one example of the thousands of lives that were affected by the changes of the criminal justice system due to the War on drugs and the drug related death of Len Bias. Is Mama Craft and the People's.

As an extension of the podcast series, the producers would like to share the full interviews of our subjects from the series. Their accounts and memories offer a fascinating look into the legacy of Len Bias. We begin the interview series with a look at the effects of the drug laws that were changed following the death of Bias. Dave Ngrady, executive producer of the series, interviews Dorothy Gaines, a victim of overzealous prosecution and mandatory minimum sentencing which sent her to prison for a crime she did not commit. Dorothy shares her personal and tragic family story on how the death of Len Bias shook her family to the core and how it still continues to affect their lives to this day. Dorothy is one example of the thousands of lives that were affected by the changes of the criminal justice system due to the War on drugs and the drug related death of Len Bias. Is Mama Craft and the People's.

Let's start really from the beginning, how your life was changed following the arrests, why you were arrested, at least what law enforcement claimed, and then and then we'll go from there.

Let's start really from the beginning, how your life was changed following the arrests, why you were arrested, at least what law enforcement claimed, and then and then we'll go from there.

In nineteen ninety three, Alabama law enforcement claimed that I knew about some drug dealing going on.

In nineteen ninety three, Alabama law enforcement claimed that I knew about some drug dealing going on.

They came into my house and raided and there was nothing.

They came into my house and raided and there was nothing.

That was Alabama court and then after Alabama court, and you know, Alabama don't send you to trial unless you have evidence, but the Pharoh government does with conspiracy. So it was turned over to the faiths. And that's how it all started in nineteen ninety three.

That was Alabama court and then after Alabama court, and you know, Alabama don't send you to trial unless you have evidence, but the Pharoh government does with conspiracy. So it was turned over to the faiths. And that's how it all started in nineteen ninety three.

And can you explain why Alabama law enforcement felt compelled to search your home. You had a relationship with a gentleman I think who.

And can you explain why Alabama law enforcement felt compelled to search your home. You had a relationship with a gentleman I think who.

Was dealing here?

Was dealing here?

You have relationship with a dealer name at that time was my comradid husband. He was more as a user than a drug person that was dealing drug. He was a user, but he knew some guys that was into that type of business. He testified that I knew anything, that I didn't know anything about what was going on. But they still even offer him to be released of the fourteen years and he would just testify against me, and he refused to do that.

You have relationship with a dealer name at that time was my comradid husband. He was more as a user than a drug person that was dealing drug. He was a user, but he knew some guys that was into that type of business. He testified that I knew anything, that I didn't know anything about what was going on. But they still even offer him to be released of the fourteen years and he would just testify against me, and he refused to do that.

Tarbor called the Alabama prosecutors decided not to prosecute you, correct, because they didn't have no right.

Tarbor called the Alabama prosecutors decided not to prosecute you, correct, because they didn't have no right.

I didn't have any They didn't have an el say, Alabama didn't prosecute me. The case was then later the federal government picked it up.

I didn't have any They didn't have an el say, Alabama didn't prosecute me. The case was then later the federal government picked it up.

And tell me what you recall about the trial when the federal government process charges against you, and how and what happened there what you thought was for some injustices there as well.

And tell me what you recall about the trial when the federal government process charges against you, and how and what happened there what you thought was for some injustices there as well.

Okay, during the trial and we went to trial at nineteen ninety.

Okay, during the trial and we went to trial at nineteen ninety.

But it started off with they came and arrest me, and I went and made a magist de bond, signed my own recovernists and I was on pre trial, had a group report with the probation office on pre trial. Then I ended up going to trial with like four other people, and I begged them let me go to trial alone, but they wouldn't let me go to trial, or they tried me with four other people. And one of the people they tried me was was a young lady that was working out of macdone's. And it was a guy there in the trial that say that he had bought an ouncer crack cocaine from her, and the juror they asked him to point out the woman that he bought the ouncer print cocaine from, and he pointed out a juror. So we just knew the trial was gonna be thrown out because he didn't he would nobody had never seen this guy they had brought in the testifact. It was just somebody after jail that they brought in and he picked out a juror.

But it started off with they came and arrest me, and I went and made a magist de bond, signed my own recovernists and I was on pre trial, had a group report with the probation office on pre trial. Then I ended up going to trial with like four other people, and I begged them let me go to trial alone, but they wouldn't let me go to trial, or they tried me with four other people. And one of the people they tried me was was a young lady that was working out of macdone's. And it was a guy there in the trial that say that he had bought an ouncer crack cocaine from her, and the juror they asked him to point out the woman that he bought the ouncer print cocaine from, and he pointed out a juror. So we just knew the trial was gonna be thrown out because he didn't he would nobody had never seen this guy they had brought in the testifact. It was just somebody after jail that they brought in and he picked out a juror.

So we thought the trial was gonna be thrown out. And there it is.

So we thought the trial was gonna be thrown out. And there it is.

That prosecutor told me that when the guy saw the lady the last time, she was heavy, and you know how the prosecuted just try to and they went on and bought and the trial see up again, you know, went on.

That prosecutor told me that when the guy saw the lady the last time, she was heavy, and you know how the prosecuted just try to and they went on and bought and the trial see up again, you know, went on.

So that day I testified.

So that day I testified.

That I knew nothing about it. Even the guy that I was living with testibut it. I knew nothing about what was going on that I was, you know, worked, and I never knew that he was a drug dealer, a user. He testified to that, and that's when, you know everything, My judge, everybody got involved. So they ended up blocking me up. My judge, so no, I'm gonna let her go home because my mother was suffering from cancer. So he let me go home and stay until time for me to be sentenced. March ten or nineteen ninety five is when I was sentenced in nineteen years and seven months and that's when my son jumped in. The judge left and the FBI and the Martians had to pry him out. The judge left and the judge was crying. He did not want to send me to prison, and that relationship started being. You know, the judge was the one that wrote a letter to the president.

That I knew nothing about it. Even the guy that I was living with testibut it. I knew nothing about what was going on that I was, you know, worked, and I never knew that he was a drug dealer, a user. He testified to that, and that's when, you know everything, My judge, everybody got involved. So they ended up blocking me up. My judge, so no, I'm gonna let her go home because my mother was suffering from cancer. So he let me go home and stay until time for me to be sentenced. March ten or nineteen ninety five is when I was sentenced in nineteen years and seven months and that's when my son jumped in. The judge left and the FBI and the Martians had to pry him out. The judge left and the judge was crying. He did not want to send me to prison, and that relationship started being. You know, the judge was the one that wrote a letter to the president.

Oh I didn't know that, yes, saying what that You know, it was just a few lines. I can get the letter. I have it in my file, just a few lines. He said that.

Oh I didn't know that, yes, saying what that You know, it was just a few lines. I can get the letter. I have it in my file, just a few lines. He said that.

You know, this was the case that he was compelled to do this for it was his first time he ever doing it, and the prosecute.

You know, this was the case that he was compelled to do this for it was his first time he ever doing it, and the prosecute.

Was just blow because they couldn't believe that he wrote a letter.

Was just blow because they couldn't believe that he wrote a letter.

To the president.

To the president.

Your son. Let's go back to your family a little bit. Tell me about what your family life was like, or what your life was like before the arrest. You had children before the rest.

Your son. Let's go back to your family a little bit. Tell me about what your family life was like, or what your life was like before the arrest. You had children before the rest.

Yeah, before the arrest, my life was I thought was perfect. I mean I did everything in the book because my children. Father died when my son was two and my daughter was three. That's when he had a mass upont I taking the age of thirty two years old. So it just me and my kids and Natasha was eight. Natasha is my oldest child. So with just a threell we had a lovely life. You know, I did nothing that I always set up myself, Dave that I did nothing unless my children was involved.

Yeah, before the arrest, my life was I thought was perfect. I mean I did everything in the book because my children. Father died when my son was two and my daughter was three. That's when he had a mass upont I taking the age of thirty two years old. So it just me and my kids and Natasha was eight. Natasha is my oldest child. So with just a threell we had a lovely life. You know, I did nothing that I always set up myself, Dave that I did nothing unless my children was involved.

I never drink. I've never been to a club in my life.

I never drink. I've never been to a club in my life.

Everything I did I did it with my children, boy Scout, girls, scout, going to movies.

Everything I did I did it with my children, boy Scout, girls, scout, going to movies.

Everything involved my children.

Everything involved my children.

So this was a big setback when I left my kids and they were the only you know, I was the only painter, not just I was the only.

So this was a big setback when I left my kids and they were the only you know, I was the only painter, not just I was the only.

Parent of my kids. Hed my mother was stuffed from cancer.

Parent of my kids. Hed my mother was stuffed from cancer.

And what kind of work were you doing at the time.

And what kind of work were you doing at the time.

I was working.

I was working.

At the hospital as a nurse, so I you know everything that went down the draint at that moment.

At the hospital as a nurse, so I you know everything that went down the draint at that moment.

What what can you tell us about your connection to this gentleman who had who was using drugs?

What what can you tell us about your connection to this gentleman who had who was using drugs?

What was he just a friend? Was he? Why would they.

What was he just a friend? Was he? Why would they.

Think that he was my guy? He was my guy friend. Let me tell you something about him. You would never have known he was a user.

Think that he was my guy? He was my guy friend. Let me tell you something about him. You would never have known he was a user.

He was what you call a he works every day every day, clean cut. You never would he was what you call a closet user. You didn't, you could.

He was what you call a he works every day every day, clean cut. You never would he was what you call a closet user. You didn't, you could.

Not tell he used drugs bias. Yeah, you could not tell he used drugs. To this day, you would never have never nobody, everybody was surprised that he was a drug user.

Not tell he used drugs bias. Yeah, you could not tell he used drugs. To this day, you would never have never nobody, everybody was surprised that he was a drug user.

And explain again that connection.

And explain again that connection.

Did that connection impact you being uh?

Did that connection impact you being uh?

Law enforcement coming after you? Is that what that was the big reason that.

Law enforcement coming after you? Is that what that was the big reason that.

That was a connection.

That was a connection.

That was a connection that law enforcement come after me and my daughter's grandmother, my daughter's oldest daughter, Natasha grandmother, her son testified against her, and natasha father testified against me and his mother and she was like sixty some years old and she went to prison. So yeah, there was a whole type of connection.

That was a connection that law enforcement come after me and my daughter's grandmother, my daughter's oldest daughter, Natasha grandmother, her son testified against her, and natasha father testified against me and his mother and she was like sixty some years old and she went to prison. So yeah, there was a whole type of connection.

Yes, tell us again what happened with your how old your son was? Can you relive that moment in court when when you were convicted and how he reacted?

Yes, tell us again what happened with your how old your son was? Can you relive that moment in court when when you were convicted and how he reacted?

Uh, my son was madews.

Uh, my son was madews.

And when I was twenty years to live in the pool.

And when I was twenty years to live in the pool.

And my son and mess every sister the day. Ever since that day I went to prison, we j be living picked up. Don't send me to prison. He has been missed from ever. He's not in prison doing forty he.

And my son and mess every sister the day. Ever since that day I went to prison, we j be living picked up. Don't send me to prison. He has been missed from ever. He's not in prison doing forty he.

Mhm hm, So my life has just been tore up ever since that day.

Mhm hm, So my life has just been tore up ever since that day.

Mhm.

Mhm.

What what were the what were the charges against your son that he's in prison now?

What what were the what were the charges against your son that he's in prison now?

Robbery? He got on drugs real bad when he was young.

Robbery? He got on drugs real bad when he was young.

Hm, And how much of how much of his behavior do you figure as related to what happened to you?

Hm, And how much of how much of his behavior do you figure as related to what happened to you?

One hundred percent? My son tried to kill himself while I was gone. He set himself, but he took over those He did everything to not leave.

One hundred percent? My son tried to kill himself while I was gone. He set himself, but he took over those He did everything to not leave.

I was aware he was he had challenges, Dorothy, I didn't realize it was that hard.

I was aware he was he had challenges, Dorothy, I didn't realize it was that hard.

I'm sorry, yes, O. How often do you talk with him or communicate with him?

I'm sorry, yes, O. How often do you talk with him or communicate with him?

Every other day?

Every other day?

I tried to communicate him every the other day. My son stay out, was stay up fifteen times?

I tried to communicate him every the other day. My son stay out, was stay up fifteen times?

Why he been gone? He was stay up fifteen times and didn't sometime? He got a stroke cut last year.

Why he been gone? He was stay up fifteen times and didn't sometime? He got a stroke cut last year.

While in prison.

While in prison.

Well in prison did me and his daughter was going to see him and we almost got killed going to see him in bad.

Well in prison did me and his daughter was going to see him and we almost got killed going to see him in bad.

Correct.

Correct.

He has one child and she's now trying to commit suicide last month herself.

He has one child and she's now trying to commit suicide last month herself.

Who Dorothy, As you're talking through this and we're listening to this, it's pretty hard to hear. But how are you how do you keep all this? How do you keep it together? With all this what is your what is your foundation of what keeps you going?

Who Dorothy, As you're talking through this and we're listening to this, it's pretty hard to hear. But how are you how do you keep all this? How do you keep it together? With all this what is your what is your foundation of what keeps you going?

Just hoping one day is going one day we can have enjoyment of seeing each other again on the outside. It's just been like I've been in prison for the last thirty years. It's been like prison.

Just hoping one day is going one day we can have enjoyment of seeing each other again on the outside. It's just been like I've been in prison for the last thirty years. It's been like prison.

Hm.

Hm.

Oh, lord Mercy.

Oh, lord Mercy.

Can you tell me about the rest of your family, how they're doing and and and I know how from talking with you over the last a couple of years that you're taking care of some of your grandchildren.

Can you tell me about the rest of your family, how they're doing and and and I know how from talking with you over the last a couple of years that you're taking care of some of your grandchildren.

Correct, Is that correct?

Correct, Is that correct?

Yes?

Yes?

I'm uh Phillip's daughter, uh Taylor, and my my daughter that when I went to prison, char Or, she's she was eleven at that time, and she was molested by a family member that has got her so messed up that she's on drugs and alcohol as well. So I'm having to help take care of for her kids. All that happened while I was inconcrated. She was right by a family member.

I'm uh Phillip's daughter, uh Taylor, and my my daughter that when I went to prison, char Or, she's she was eleven at that time, and she was molested by a family member that has got her so messed up that she's on drugs and alcohol as well. So I'm having to help take care of for her kids. All that happened while I was inconcrated. She was right by a family member.

I'm sorry, who was your daughter?

I'm sorry, who was your daughter?

Yeah, Charro the level when she was eleven at the time I went to prison, and you know, mentally, it messed with her a lot, and so she started drinking and started doing drugs as well. So she has four children, So I just I know I ain't no guests. That's why God keeping me here, is why COVID. I mean, hey, it's a reason for my life. Hopefully one day I'll see the sun shame.

Yeah, Charro the level when she was eleven at the time I went to prison, and you know, mentally, it messed with her a lot, and so she started drinking and started doing drugs as well. So she has four children, So I just I know I ain't no guests. That's why God keeping me here, is why COVID. I mean, hey, it's a reason for my life. Hopefully one day I'll see the sun shame.

And who cares for your Who cares for your children? Where they were adults? But are they.

And who cares for your Who cares for your children? Where they were adults? But are they.

You're helping care to be clear, helping care for their their children as best you can?

You're helping care to be clear, helping care for their their children as best you can?

Correct?

Correct?

Yes, yes, yes, it's a hard journey. But I'm trying to.

Yes, yes, yes, it's a hard journey. But I'm trying to.

Do with how are you? How are you doing that? What do you because you're not able to work? You're not working? Correct?

Do with how are you? How are you doing that? What do you because you're not able to work? You're not working? Correct?

No, I'm not working. I don't think I get an SSI disability.

No, I'm not working. I don't think I get an SSI disability.

Okay, let's talk a bit. When you were incarcerated, what did you do?

Okay, let's talk a bit. When you were incarcerated, what did you do?

I'm I think it's fair to say that you felt you were unjustly convicted? Of course, what did you do to try to first deal with the fact while you were in prison that you don't felt you shouldn't have been there? And secondly, what did you do to try to, if anything, fixed your situation?

I'm I think it's fair to say that you felt you were unjustly convicted? Of course, what did you do to try to first deal with the fact while you were in prison that you don't felt you shouldn't have been there? And secondly, what did you do to try to, if anything, fixed your situation?

I start well, when I went to I went to FRISM and I started writing out, I started calling out, and I remember I got in touch with jeded Reno, and I was explaining them on a letter about what had went down did It wasn't fair.

I start well, when I went to I went to FRISM and I started writing out, I started calling out, and I remember I got in touch with jeded Reno, and I was explaining them on a letter about what had went down did It wasn't fair.

How could I be charged with something I never done?

How could I be charged with something I never done?

And and I remember her office writing me back, and I end up still writing and writing. And then when I went to prison, I wrote letters and different people from all over England would get my got my story. They send somebody over here to do a film about how they were sending American people to prison on conspiracy.

And and I remember her office writing me back, and I end up still writing and writing. And then when I went to prison, I wrote letters and different people from all over England would get my got my story. They send somebody over here to do a film about how they were sending American people to prison on conspiracy.

They did that when I was in Mariana prison in nineteen ninety nine, they sent somebody from England. Then different magazines like Marie Clair and Ebony Essence. And you know, Philip was in the last book that JFK put out before he got killed in the plane crack.

They did that when I was in Mariana prison in nineteen ninety nine, they sent somebody from England. Then different magazines like Marie Clair and Ebony Essence. And you know, Philip was in the last book that JFK put out before he got killed in the plane crack.

There was a story about him. Was in that book called Joege the last book that was put out. They wrote a story about him in that book. I mean it just I just sent in prison. I just I didn't go to prison. I just put' simp there. I just let myself write in prison, knowing that I needed my children needed me. So I started writing out and begging for help on outside. I started begging for help for somebody, some organization to take hold of my son and be a mentor.

There was a story about him. Was in that book called Joege the last book that was put out. They wrote a story about him in that book. I mean it just I just sent in prison. I just I didn't go to prison. I just put' simp there. I just let myself write in prison, knowing that I needed my children needed me. So I started writing out and begging for help on outside. I started begging for help for somebody, some organization to take hold of my son and be a mentor.

But I and get that part of it. But I did.

But I and get that part of it. But I did.

People did start writing out about my story and doing a lot of things.

People did start writing out about my story and doing a lot of things.

So while you were in prison, you were doing all this, did you darthy Did you think that you.

So while you were in prison, you were doing all this, did you darthy Did you think that you.

Were going to be in there for a really long time? Like, uh, were you gonna do your you were gonna it was.

Were going to be in there for a really long time? Like, uh, were you gonna do your you were gonna it was.

A mindset thing. I kept saying every day, I was not going to do that time. I kept telling the officers that I was not going to do that time. And I remember one day I kept on talking. I said, I'm going home, and they sent me to the site ward. They said I was losing my mind because I had twenty years. How was I going home? And I said, I'm going home. I'm gonna fight my case. I'm going home, and they sent me to the site war.

A mindset thing. I kept saying every day, I was not going to do that time. I kept telling the officers that I was not going to do that time. And I remember one day I kept on talking. I said, I'm going home, and they sent me to the site ward. They said I was losing my mind because I had twenty years. How was I going home? And I said, I'm going home. I'm gonna fight my case. I'm going home, and they sent me to the site war.

Did you when you got arrested, when you were convicted you did you understand what the laws were and how it related to the death of Len Bias at that time?

Did you when you got arrested, when you were convicted you did you understand what the laws were and how it related to the death of Len Bias at that time?

Did you know who Lenn was? Did you know any of that?

Did you know who Lenn was? Did you know any of that?

No?

No?

I did not, No, No, I did not.

I did not, No, No, I did not.

When did you finally become aware of that?

When did you finally become aware of that?

I remember reading about uh, Lenn biased. I think it was. I don't know what was. Eric was talking.

I remember reading about uh, Lenn biased. I think it was. I don't know what was. Eric was talking.

About it when that's when everybody was running and jumping and lend biased. They didn't really look into the law. They were just upset because Lynn had od and they just changed the law.

About it when that's when everybody was running and jumping and lend biased. They didn't really look into the law. They were just upset because Lynn had od and they just changed the law.

And he said like overnight, Oh that was.

And he said like overnight, Oh that was.

That was uh oh yes, okay. But when did you When did you become.

That was uh oh yes, okay. But when did you When did you become.

Aware of Len's history and how his death affected uh?

Aware of Len's history and how his death affected uh?

While I was inconcentrated, because I knew nothing about any of this before I went to prison. That's why I was the person to try to read now and let people know, you gotta be knowledgeable stuff. But before I knew nothing about conspiras. I knew nothing about practic cocaine. I knew nothing about any of it.

While I was inconcentrated, because I knew nothing about any of this before I went to prison. That's why I was the person to try to read now and let people know, you gotta be knowledgeable stuff. But before I knew nothing about conspiras. I knew nothing about practic cocaine. I knew nothing about any of it.

Did you find out about him just reading about it while you were in prison?

Did you find out about him just reading about it while you were in prison?

Is that what you're saying, Yeah, I found out about I was convicted.

Is that what you're saying, Yeah, I found out about I was convicted.

I didn't know any thing about any of this.

I didn't know any thing about any of this.

And how did it? How did that make you feel when you found that out? Did you.

And how did it? How did that make you feel when you found that out? Did you.

Enough that there was a whole lot you could do at that point beside what you were doing? But did you think about that and said why you know this doesn't make sense or did you have any kind of reaction to that?

Enough that there was a whole lot you could do at that point beside what you were doing? But did you think about that and said why you know this doesn't make sense or did you have any kind of reaction to that?

Well, yall have a reaction to it, because the thing about the way I looked at with crack cocaine, it's just like with a chicken.

Well, yall have a reaction to it, because the thing about the way I looked at with crack cocaine, it's just like with a chicken.

You can take a chicken, you can boil.

You can take a chicken, you can boil.

It, fry, barbecue, and bake it, but when it all boil down, it's a chicken. And it's the same way with crack cocaine and powder. They give you more time for having crack cocaine and dup of powder, but the basic thing is the head thing is its problem. So why they give you more time for crack dup of powder? Well, that was some of the scenarios I was looking.

It, fry, barbecue, and bake it, but when it all boil down, it's a chicken. And it's the same way with crack cocaine and powder. They give you more time for having crack cocaine and dup of powder, but the basic thing is the head thing is its problem. So why they give you more time for crack dup of powder? Well, that was some of the scenarios I was looking.

At as you researched it.

At as you researched it.

Did you understand why that was why they were what the reasoning might have been for a severe more severe sentences for crack as opposed to powder.

Did you understand why that was why they were what the reasoning might have been for a severe more severe sentences for crack as opposed to powder.

You know, uh uh Daves. To this day, I'm still upset because I still don't understand why, because to me, patter would be more potent to me, uh to me with crack. They say they break the crack down with bacon power all that, so it's broke down, So why would it be more to bee or penalty unless it's because of the race that's using the drugs.

You know, uh uh Daves. To this day, I'm still upset because I still don't understand why, because to me, patter would be more potent to me, uh to me with crack. They say they break the crack down with bacon power all that, so it's broke down, So why would it be more to bee or penalty unless it's because of the race that's using the drugs.

Okay, I don't under Let's move forward to Uh, how did it? How do you remember it happening where you were? Were President Clinton pardoned you?

Okay, I don't under Let's move forward to Uh, how did it? How do you remember it happening where you were? Were President Clinton pardoned you?

How did it? How did all that transpire?

How did it? How did all that transpire?

Well, it all comes about a lot of people got involved, like Aery.

Well, it all comes about a lot of people got involved, like Aery.

Sterling Sterling build a campaign families against mandatory minimum.

Sterling Sterling build a campaign families against mandatory minimum.

Uh.

Uh.

It was a lot of people that came on board that uh got involved. And like I say, all my writing did not go in vain. I wrote to everybody, right, That's all I did was my money in prison was about stamps and wrote out and people would you know, another guy named Ira Glassner on this radio show called uh, I got all this stuff, but his name was just people all over that heard about my story just like it was a while, I just caught on fire and they couldn't believe that this has happened.

It was a lot of people that came on board that uh got involved. And like I say, all my writing did not go in vain. I wrote to everybody, right, That's all I did was my money in prison was about stamps and wrote out and people would you know, another guy named Ira Glassner on this radio show called uh, I got all this stuff, but his name was just people all over that heard about my story just like it was a while, I just caught on fire and they couldn't believe that this has happened.

When you found out that you were gonna be how did you find out that you were going to be pardoned?

When you found out that you were gonna be how did you find out that you were going to be pardoned?

And okay, it.

And okay, it.

Was the twenty second day of December. Uh, you know, it was that Friday before Christmas coming up. And in prison, they always give you a Christmas bag to everybody that's in prison.

Was the twenty second day of December. Uh, you know, it was that Friday before Christmas coming up. And in prison, they always give you a Christmas bag to everybody that's in prison.

They had locked down for lunch. Well, I called home that morning. I call home.

They had locked down for lunch. Well, I called home that morning. I call home.

I always call my children on and I call home that Friday morning, and my kids will telling me, well, a lot of press that come to the prison, but put it in a lot of press.

I always call my children on and I call home that Friday morning, and my kids will telling me, well, a lot of press that come to the prison, but put it in a lot of press.

They come to the prison and interview me.

They come to the prison and interview me.

And I had an interview supposed to been that Friday morning, and the guy put the interview off and told me he was gonna come on that Monday.

And I had an interview supposed to been that Friday morning, and the guy put the interview off and told me he was gonna come on that Monday.

So that Friday morning, I called home.

So that Friday morning, I called home.

My kids told me, said, Mama, someth going on because a lot of people report us been calling us all morning. So then I asked to use the phone. Of course, you know you got women's in prison. They love soap operas. They're not gonna let you see the TV or any of that. So about one o'clock I came into the unity lockdown to give us all the Christmas bag for Christmas, and I happened to call my attorney. I had to end up with some pro bono attorneys that heard about my case out of Maryland. I think it was Maryland shot Holler and Stewart Firn and I called, and my lawyer say, doth what are you doing?

My kids told me, said, Mama, someth going on because a lot of people report us been calling us all morning. So then I asked to use the phone. Of course, you know you got women's in prison. They love soap operas. They're not gonna let you see the TV or any of that. So about one o'clock I came into the unity lockdown to give us all the Christmas bag for Christmas, and I happened to call my attorney. I had to end up with some pro bono attorneys that heard about my case out of Maryland. I think it was Maryland shot Holler and Stewart Firn and I called, and my lawyer say, doth what are you doing?

Where are you at?

Where are you at?

I said, wait the hell you think I'm in prison? You know, just like that, he said, you're in prison. She said you got released it. I said, all I got released? They she said, yeah, you and Kimba Smith got released day and I just they said I fainted.

I said, wait the hell you think I'm in prison? You know, just like that, he said, you're in prison. She said you got released it. I said, all I got released? They she said, yeah, you and Kimba Smith got released day and I just they said I fainted.

I don't know, I fainted.

I don't know, I fainted.

You got released on the same day as Kimber.

You got released on the same day as Kimber.

Yeah, he would really he spoke of us that day. Wow, he's still twenty seven.

Yeah, he would really he spoke of us that day. Wow, he's still twenty seven.

Yeah, we've Kembas says, we've talked to Kemba and and she's got it.

Yeah, we've Kembas says, we've talked to Kemba and and she's got it.

She's actually there working.

She's actually there working.

On a feature film about her, and she had to check with her attorneys to make sure that what we're doing is not going to interfere with.

On a feature film about her, and she had to check with her attorneys to make sure that what we're doing is not going to interfere with.

The future film. So hopefully i'll hear back from herny day.

The future film. So hopefully i'll hear back from herny day.

Yeah, but she as you know, she she gave us a lot of good stuff for the book.

Yeah, but she as you know, she she gave us a lot of good stuff for the book.

But I didn't know that.

But I didn't know that.

That's that's interesting, all right, So tell me about the transition once you left Once you left prison, what was that.

That's that's interesting, all right, So tell me about the transition once you left Once you left prison, what was that.

Transition like for you?

Transition like for you?

What did you see in your family, what did you see, what did you think was ahead for you?

What did you see in your family, what did you see, what did you think was ahead for you?

Where you could go.

Where you could go.

Well, when I left prison that day, my son, when I got home, you know, of course, was.

Well, when I left prison that day, my son, when I got home, you know, of course, was.

So much media around, so much media.

So much media around, so much media.

And when I got home, my uh my kids kept pitching me because they couldn't believe I was real. They couldn't believe that I was there, or my son, and you could see that he was just he just was I don't know, he just was standing off and she just he couldn't just believe that I was home.

And when I got home, my uh my kids kept pitching me because they couldn't believe I was real. They couldn't believe that I was there, or my son, and you could see that he was just he just was I don't know, he just was standing off and she just he couldn't just believe that I was home.

And you know, I saw.

And you know, I saw.

That all the damage had been done, was going on, and it's like you walk into a fire and you see it, but then you don't know which way to go with it. And you know, the worst day right now that I regret that I did not sit down instead of coming out trying to fight the law, trying to do everything for everybody doingthing, I didn't sit down with my kids to really find out what they had been through mentally and try to get them some help mentally. And I'll tell you about it. They come out of here and your children been hurt. To first put time with your kids and find what did they go through and what need to be done. Because I was thinking that by me coming home that was a healing part. That was all they needed. That wasn't all they needed. I needed to see what had happened to them that Davids. They had been done.

That all the damage had been done, was going on, and it's like you walk into a fire and you see it, but then you don't know which way to go with it. And you know, the worst day right now that I regret that I did not sit down instead of coming out trying to fight the law, trying to do everything for everybody doingthing, I didn't sit down with my kids to really find out what they had been through mentally and try to get them some help mentally. And I'll tell you about it. They come out of here and your children been hurt. To first put time with your kids and find what did they go through and what need to be done. Because I was thinking that by me coming home that was a healing part. That was all they needed. That wasn't all they needed. I needed to see what had happened to them that Davids. They had been done.

So Dorothy, take us through those first five or six years when you're now out and what are you trying to do to accliment yourself back into society, help your family and also make sure this isn't going to happen to anyone else if you could well.

So Dorothy, take us through those first five or six years when you're now out and what are you trying to do to accliment yourself back into society, help your family and also make sure this isn't going to happen to anyone else if you could well.

That was the main thing.

That was the main thing.

The focus was trying to make sure other women's and people knew about after I had experienced a hard weight, trying to make sure that it was out in the public about crack cocaine. It was out in the pub about the conspiracy law. The main thing is people don't understand the conspiracy law. And then that's when there's a guilt by association came out that I don't know if a lot of people have. That explains a lot about how women get cooked up with guys like I did with Mercedes ral playing that role, you know. And then they did the Snitch thing in nineteen ninety nine with PBS front Line that shared a lot of light on how this thing happens when it comes to snitching. You know, you don't have to know it for it. Just get people just a lot that bothers me a lot. So you know, it's a lot of light has been shedded, you know. And I have to say that, you know, I put put a lot of focus out there. Again, like I said, I should have been trying to find out what was going on my kids, and now I'm I'm the review.

The focus was trying to make sure other women's and people knew about after I had experienced a hard weight, trying to make sure that it was out in the public about crack cocaine. It was out in the pub about the conspiracy law. The main thing is people don't understand the conspiracy law. And then that's when there's a guilt by association came out that I don't know if a lot of people have. That explains a lot about how women get cooked up with guys like I did with Mercedes ral playing that role, you know. And then they did the Snitch thing in nineteen ninety nine with PBS front Line that shared a lot of light on how this thing happens when it comes to snitching. You know, you don't have to know it for it. Just get people just a lot that bothers me a lot. So you know, it's a lot of light has been shedded, you know. And I have to say that, you know, I put put a lot of focus out there. Again, like I said, I should have been trying to find out what was going on my kids, and now I'm I'm the review.

Percussion is in my left. You know. I did all that running around here there and young and now I'm.

Percussion is in my left. You know. I did all that running around here there and young and now I'm.

Still suffering with these kids that that got messed up doing these drug logs while I was gone, and it's like a recycled thing. It's drifted on down to the next generation of kids.

Still suffering with these kids that that got messed up doing these drug logs while I was gone, and it's like a recycled thing. It's drifted on down to the next generation of kids.

Tell us take us through your personal life. How long it took you to Readjust did you.

Tell us take us through your personal life. How long it took you to Readjust did you.

Were able to get work? Were you uh were.

Were able to get work? Were you uh were.

You struggling to find work? And how what was happening with your family at the time.

You struggling to find work? And how what was happening with your family at the time.

It's been a struggle since I come home, Dave.

It's been a struggle since I come home, Dave.

It's I mean, uh, the work ethic thing with you know, with that fellow thing I had on my work because I was I was commentated, but I wasn't partnered, so you know it it was a long time, a lot of things, housing and all.

It's I mean, uh, the work ethic thing with you know, with that fellow thing I had on my work because I was I was commentated, but I wasn't partnered, so you know it it was a long time, a lot of things, housing and all.

You know, there wasn't let you get housed if you had a drug fell on the record. It was a lot going on that.

You know, there wasn't let you get housed if you had a drug fell on the record. It was a lot going on that.

We had to fight through, even with voting rights, so we I had to get out fighting for voting, fighting for housing, and fighting for food stamp. You had to fight all these things because you could rob somebody, kill somebody, you would be utible for housing and foodstack. But if you had a drug record, you couldn't.

We had to fight through, even with voting rights, so we I had to get out fighting for voting, fighting for housing, and fighting for food stamp. You had to fight all these things because you could rob somebody, kill somebody, you would be utible for housing and foodstack. But if you had a drug record, you couldn't.

So it was a still a fight.

So it was a still a fight.

And how long did that is? That? Does that exist today?

And how long did that is? That? Does that exist today?

Is that A lot of it still exists today. A lot of it still exist today. A lot of it is getting better, but you know, it's still a fight. It's so much when you have a drug record.

Is that A lot of it still exists today. A lot of it still exist today. A lot of it is getting better, but you know, it's still a fight. It's so much when you have a drug record.

Take us now through how your family evolved, when you when you were released, when your your sentence was commutated or commuted, how you tried to keep the family together, how the family evolved, What happened in the family.

Take us now through how your family evolved, when you when you were released, when your your sentence was commutated or commuted, how you tried to keep the family together, how the family evolved, What happened in the family.

Yeah, Uh, well, when I came home, you know, my daughter had come out of college to raise my kids. My eighteen year old daughter had to stop school and she had three kids of her own, and she had to take on my kids, and it was just impacted home, her trying to struggle and take care of the kids, and me myself coming out as another person involved in.

Yeah, Uh, well, when I came home, you know, my daughter had come out of college to raise my kids. My eighteen year old daughter had to stop school and she had three kids of her own, and she had to take on my kids, and it was just impacted home, her trying to struggle and take care of the kids, and me myself coming out as another person involved in.

It was like.

It was like.

I'm trying to the perfect word for it. It's like it's a bottle of struggle. But it's still is not any opening there, you know, It's just it's still this cycle just still goes on.

I'm trying to the perfect word for it. It's like it's a bottle of struggle. But it's still is not any opening there, you know, It's just it's still this cycle just still goes on.

It's not where are you just free minded that you just everything is going all right?

It's not where are you just free minded that you just everything is going all right?

It's not.

It's not.

It's not.

It's not.

It's a struggle there that had just messed up the whole life of the family, and it just goes from year to year.

It's a struggle there that had just messed up the whole life of the family, and it just goes from year to year.

To year and it's not getting a break.

To year and it's not getting a break.

And what happened to your How does your daughter's life evolve? You tell us a little bit about your son to be more specific about what happened to all of them.

And what happened to your How does your daughter's life evolve? You tell us a little bit about your son to be more specific about what happened to all of them.

Okay, my oldest daughter when I left, was eighteen. She was in going into college. She was the one that took on my two smaller kid to cause she didn't want them to go into aposter care because my mother had counsel anyway, you know, so she didn't want to go in there. So she took all that big responsibility herself and you know, and family is allso they're gonna stand by and help you. But after so long people disappear. They'll say they're gonna do something, they disappear. So all this struggle for the time I was gone was on her. Her burden along with trying to go to school and take care of her family, and then with the problem that my two children had, which was charged with you at that time was eleven, That's what I told you, that was molested by a family member and she ended up on drugs and alcohol and still on drugs and alcohol that to this day.

Okay, my oldest daughter when I left, was eighteen. She was in going into college. She was the one that took on my two smaller kid to cause she didn't want them to go into aposter care because my mother had counsel anyway, you know, so she didn't want to go in there. So she took all that big responsibility herself and you know, and family is allso they're gonna stand by and help you. But after so long people disappear. They'll say they're gonna do something, they disappear. So all this struggle for the time I was gone was on her. Her burden along with trying to go to school and take care of her family, and then with the problem that my two children had, which was charged with you at that time was eleven, That's what I told you, that was molested by a family member and she ended up on drugs and alcohol and still on drugs and alcohol that to this day.

That's why I'm having to help take care of her kids now.

That's why I'm having to help take care of her kids now.

And Natasha is the oldest, which she's she has a level head, but that was a big verd but she has a something like a counselor thing going on with her right now. So she's on a lot of pressure, sick herself. That's the oldest child. And you know, we know we talked about what Philip had, but Philip has one daughter that she is struggling mentally, that tried to kill herself a month ago, and I'm having to help take care of his child.

And Natasha is the oldest, which she's she has a level head, but that was a big verd but she has a something like a counselor thing going on with her right now. So she's on a lot of pressure, sick herself. That's the oldest child. And you know, we know we talked about what Philip had, but Philip has one daughter that she is struggling mentally, that tried to kill herself a month ago, and I'm having to help take care of his child.

So that's just the way it's going on now.

So that's just the way it's going on now.

The oldest daughter. What is she is? She does she have a profession? Is she able to?

The oldest daughter. What is she is? She does she have a profession? Is she able to?

My oldest daughter was going to school to be an attorney, but now she her profession. She's a school teacher. She's a school teacher, and.

My oldest daughter was going to school to be an attorney, but now she her profession. She's a school teacher. She's a school teacher, and.

She tried to teach criminal justice within the school system to try and tell kids about it. And I've been over to her school to speak. But she is she's a school teacher with the criminal justice side on that. So she's doing good trying to keep kids out of trouble in school.

She tried to teach criminal justice within the school system to try and tell kids about it. And I've been over to her school to speak. But she is she's a school teacher with the criminal justice side on that. So she's doing good trying to keep kids out of trouble in school.

Okay, that's interesting. That's very positive. I mean, that's that's fantastic.

Okay, that's interesting. That's very positive. I mean, that's that's fantastic.

Yeah, she's doing good with that.

Yeah, she's doing good with that.

Okay. What what do you think was the clincher to get you your sentence commuted?

Okay. What what do you think was the clincher to get you your sentence commuted?

Well, like I said, all the publicity that I did have, UH, my son wrote a lot of letters to the judge, and I also wrote the president and my kids UH, the campaigns that family against mandatory minimum and Eric Sterling iran UH and then with the probo on lawyers out of UH the trot hollering Steward, they was able to have a sit down talk with.

Well, like I said, all the publicity that I did have, UH, my son wrote a lot of letters to the judge, and I also wrote the president and my kids UH, the campaigns that family against mandatory minimum and Eric Sterling iran UH and then with the probo on lawyers out of UH the trot hollering Steward, they was able to have a sit down talk with.

UH Eric holding mm HM, which was the Attorney general at that My sister Attorney General. So it was a lot of things.

UH Eric holding mm HM, which was the Attorney general at that My sister Attorney General. So it was a lot of things.

Played a lot of roles in that I put yourself out there in the immediate and people reading about it, and people people, a lot of people just don't know that. People a lot of people think that when people go to prison they actually held ten keys of drugs. They don't think that people set up in prison because they had knowledge of I didn't help the process, you know, And this is something that I wanted people to know, especially when they set the people over in England to come over here and interview me.

Played a lot of roles in that I put yourself out there in the immediate and people reading about it, and people people, a lot of people just don't know that. People a lot of people think that when people go to prison they actually held ten keys of drugs. They don't think that people set up in prison because they had knowledge of I didn't help the process, you know, And this is something that I wanted people to know, especially when they set the people over in England to come over here and interview me.

I mean, hey, they couldn't believe that you say, actually sending people to prison, you damaged the family for life? For what reason? That's what I don't get. For what reason? I told them they could give me the life on a monitor, life on probation.

I mean, hey, they couldn't believe that you say, actually sending people to prison, you damaged the family for life? For what reason? That's what I don't get. For what reason? I told them they could give me the life on a monitor, life on probation.

I didn't care as long as I didn't leave my children because I knew what the damage was gonna be.

I didn't care as long as I didn't leave my children because I knew what the damage was gonna be.

How do you put this all in perspective, all these things that have happened to you, and and sort of justify or accept all this and put it all on perspective.

How do you put this all in perspective, all these things that have happened to you, and and sort of justify or accept all this and put it all on perspective.

Every time my phone ring and I see that prison number come across my screen, I'm scared to answer because you never know what has happened on the inside. You know, my phone ring at two o'clock in the morning, I don't know if somebody calling to him my son has gotten killed, because I've had those tragic.

Every time my phone ring and I see that prison number come across my screen, I'm scared to answer because you never know what has happened on the inside. You know, my phone ring at two o'clock in the morning, I don't know if somebody calling to him my son has gotten killed, because I've had those tragic.

Phone calls before. So you know, it's just you.

Phone calls before. So you know, it's just you.

I live every day on pen and needs afraid. I have not been in peace since I've been out of prison. I'm still in prison. I'm just I've just got my freedom, but I'm I'm I'm mentally in prison still. And then and then uh, legacy to me, you know, like it was a mistake. You know, a good guy that made a bad choice, and he didn't know he was making that bad choice.

I live every day on pen and needs afraid. I have not been in peace since I've been out of prison. I'm still in prison. I'm just I've just got my freedom, but I'm I'm I'm mentally in prison still. And then and then uh, legacy to me, you know, like it was a mistake. You know, a good guy that made a bad choice, and he didn't know he was making that bad choice.

He didn't know. I know he didn't. I'm quite sure.

He didn't know. I know he didn't. I'm quite sure.

I know he didn't know that he was gonna o D on those drugs. But it wasn't it wasn't what he done. It was a choice he made. The prosecutors the federal government, because they're still locking people up for life on drug charges. They're not looking into the fact of how many children that you are, you are you are bringing into the prison system by locking their parents up. They need to get to the barb and see see a lot of this stuff going on with these kids. Now it's mentally because you don't know what has happened in these kids life that has.

I know he didn't know that he was gonna o D on those drugs. But it wasn't it wasn't what he done. It was a choice he made. The prosecutors the federal government, because they're still locking people up for life on drug charges. They're not looking into the fact of how many children that you are, you are you are bringing into the prison system by locking their parents up. They need to get to the barb and see see a lot of this stuff going on with these kids. Now it's mentally because you don't know what has happened in these kids life that has.

Caused them to do the things they're doing.

Caused them to do the things they're doing.

Then I breaking down and make sure these children see that pair that is important when a child is a mother and a father's and Trithlen that these children have communication with their parents.

Then I breaking down and make sure these children see that pair that is important when a child is a mother and a father's and Trithlen that these children have communication with their parents.

And that's what happened with my kids.

And that's what happened with my kids.

They had no transportation to come and see me when they wanted to come, and when they did come, they cried the whole while it was there, not.

They had no transportation to come and see me when they wanted to come, and when they did come, they cried the whole while it was there, not.

Wanting to leave it.

Wanting to leave it.

They pay off they they didn't even want to work to visit room. My children come because they want to cry and scream.

They pay off they they didn't even want to work to visit room. My children come because they want to cry and scream.

So we were time to go. So your damnity.

So we were time to go. So your damnity.

Children aren't flying, But things ain't gonna happen in the children you studied down to them.

Children aren't flying, But things ain't gonna happen in the children you studied down to them.

That was Dorothy Gaines, who was convicted of drug crimes related to the death of Len Bias. Her sentence was later commuted by President Bill Clinton. Len Bias a mixed legacy. The interviews was produced by Daveon Grady and Don Marcus. He had it all strong, quick, and he.

That was Dorothy Gaines, who was convicted of drug crimes related to the death of Len Bias. Her sentence was later commuted by President Bill Clinton. Len Bias a mixed legacy. The interviews was produced by Daveon Grady and Don Marcus. He had it all strong, quick, and he.

Was so Len bias.

Was so Len bias.

A mixed legacy is distributed by the eighth side number.

A mixed legacy is distributed by the eighth side number.

Just for greatness and loss, that you're known of all of her memories, Remember me.

Just for greatness and loss, that you're known of all of her memories, Remember me.

I hope they do the same.

I hope they do the same.