Former NC State star and NBA center Chris Washburn talks with Executive Producer Dave Ungrady about his own struggles with drug use causing him to be in and out of basketball and the effect Len Bias's death had on his life and others. Certain claims in the interview made by Washburn are unsubstantiated and are not to be taken as statements or facts from the producers of this podcast.
Uh get it all quick, and he was so Chris.
You you may recall, Uh we had a couple of recent conversations and I asked you how first you had your barbecue place still going, that little restaurant.
No, No, I closed it down a few years ago because I uh got a certification as a peer support specialist in North Carolina, which just mean that a prayer, a person has gone through some things and got over it. Uh now a live to go back and help some other folks do the same thing. So once I got that certification, I couldn't spend as much time at the restaurant as I needed to be there. So the rest things for me to do was just shut them down.
So that leads me to my next question. I remember reading that you were going to do something to help I think it was youth or someone who was in recovery or something. Can you plain what how that's work, what's happening there, and how that's working?
Well? What I s thought it was a program called Thoughts, Action Consequences. And again it's not just for athletes, it's for the student Uh. Actually the student body going to different churches in the Speed, different youth groups in Speed uh. And then again, it's just preparing the kids to be ready for whenever they get to to where they're trying to go in life, that they're if they're ready to be there, you know. Unfortunately, say, when I got to the NBA, I was prepared physically, but I wasn't prepared mentally, you know. And and that comes for not surrounding myself with people that were trying to do the same things. So I try to get the kids to understand that in order to get to it the next level, you need to surround yourself which people are trying to do the same things that you're trying to do.
Can you say the name of the program again, slowly?
It's called thoughts, Action consequences.
Thoughts, Actions consequences. Great, Okay, they see is this something that you started?
I did? Yes, I did?
And how many years has it been around?
I'm looking at not ten years?
Wow?
One on eleven?
And what's the Can you be a little more specific on what you're focusing on with that? Obviously the name says a lot, but can you give me examples how you try to mentor these as well as the primarily youth or adults as well?
Can I say, anyone that's trying to get to the next level in life, but trying to get into a different position. I think this program here, this program can help because again it doesn't just specify as athletes trying to get to either college or to the pros. This is just a general thing for UH in life. Like I said, the versus just wants to be the top UH manager or supervisor for McDonald's, or the next person wants to be the next CEO at the company. If you're not prepared when that opportunity or that or opens for you, then once you get in there, you won't stay lost. And a lot of times I go back to myself because, like I said, I was prepared for the NBA UH physically, I wasn't prepared mentally. And then also my surrounding circle was so big that anybody could get to me. So the main thing was that once, once an opportunity presents hisself, you have to be ready because that door may shut quicker than it opened up for you.
Okay, well, let's that's impressive. And I'm going to get to when you were at NC State and when you met Land and what happened in your friendship with him, But can you give me an example or two of some things that you're teaching these people. What are some of the themes or what are some of the uh, some of the briefer or two or three strong, strong lessons or messages.
What the maining lesson is is that although I was sixty eleven at a young age, I was still a follow and and and the guy as I was falling were not guys that were trying to get to a next level of sports or trying to do more positive things. Although I was, I was a big kid, I was I hung with older guys. You know, I was sixt eleven when I was six seven in the seventh grade, so that already put me in a different class so people I could hang with because I could be in the streets playing with guys my own age. But then people would be like, why is this grown land playing with these kids, not knowing that I'm a kid as well. So I never really had a childhood. So when I got with these older guys, I would kind of act out and do things, and they were kind of laugh and kind of you know, you know, smirk it off because I was young, instead of kind of correcting what I was doing because that that never changed as I got older. You know, I kept still trying to if I didn't understand that, I'm trying to be the funny one, you know, in the group instead of, like I said, understanding. So I want these kids to understand that it's all right not to understand everything. You know what I'm saying, It's only wrong when you don't ask questions, because when the course is present to you and you can't answer it, then people look at you like, you know, why are you here? And then also I want the kids to understand that all friends are not meant to go where you go. You know, my thing was I wanted to open the door for everybody to come in with me. But but but everybody you know can't go, which is the saying that I say out now, everybody I know can't go where I go because we don't have the same intention. And then also another thing is if you get the chance to be an athlete or someone one there changes their money status, that everybody jumps on your wagon is not helping you go to the same goal. So I'm just on the wagon to ride. You know, someone ed see what you drop or they can pick up what you might not miss, you know. And I say that because I had agents back then that was writing themselves checks and I lost seven hundred and fifty thousand, and I never knew about it because I wasn't handling my own finance. And then and then another big thing is I want the kids to understand. So that's when I talked to the college athletes, we need to take a finance course, because again, once we get off to this deal of money, don't want somebody just hading your money and you know nothing about it like I did, you know. And it's another fast funny coming from a guy that only had a four four seventy esaight sport. And again that's only because I never took the SAT. At that time, the scores didn't matter, so I just went in and I bubbled everything and went to sleep for the three hours and left. And when the scores came back, although the state gives you four hundred, I only made seventy points on my on my own, so it's like, you know, I may only got maybe two questions right on the whole SAT. So then it goes into how did this kid get into a Division I school? You know what I'm saying he must be semi re target, not understanding that I never took the actual test because at that time, coach, we said, you've already tied your sins the formality just going and take the test, and you know, and and and that's it. Not knowing like they said, I would go and bubble everything and go to see the next thing. I know there was national news and it This is even before the internet, you know. So again I want the kids to understand that anything in life, you know, you have to sit down and especially for yourself, understand the things that's coming to you. Understand your finance, Understand where money goes. Understanding that you can't help everybody you know, and and and and just shut the lit.
Now are you Are you doing this primarily through speaking? Are you doing seminars? And how does it work?
Well? I get it a lot of times. I say if I go places like Alaska, I went over there and I stayed about seven days, and I hit multiple schools here in the States. I may go to churches and do some youth grow I do a lot of basketball camps and the something I've also done. Uh, it's funny because I was banned from the NBA. But a lot of times the NBA pays me to come back and tweak to the kids about what to do on what not to do, you know what I'm saying. So a lot of the guys, uh, you know recently coming to the NBA know who Chris Washburnt is with. They might not know who Ano another person in the in the eighty six draft is because they're not relevant at this time. So the NBA still keeps me kind of relevant even with the younger guys, you know. So so again I said, I had that fall early on, you know what I'm saying, and so this gives me a chance to still be involved, but also kind of He'll hope that these kids don't get those same pitfalls as I went through.
I'll move on after this. Are you able to make a living off of yours? This is your full time work? Now, this is your p It.
Is full time work. I do make, I do make. This is my full time there. But right now I'm calling you. I'm talking to you for my truck because I'm on set right now shooting a movie called The Mutt with their Costrata and some other people in it. So I'm I'm I'm sitting in the truck having to do this during my lunchtime. He had just uh that while we're on set. So again, I try to stay busy. Uh uh. It's funny because I feel like I make more money. I've made more money outside of basketball than the time I did while I was in basketball because my time was so short. So again, so I'm thinking it's tan off at the end.
Part excellent, Well, good luck with that. Are you are you? Are you playing an acting.
Role or I am an actor in the role of the Mutt is an actual Italian mafia movie. Uh, the Mutt, this guy named Joey. I played Chris, my actual self in the movie. I'm Joey's best friend, and so I have a lot of roles in this movie. But to day, at the first day of shooting, So right now I'm sitting outside of the prison. We got with us some scenes inside the prison we have to shoot, So right now outside the pridgon and get ready to start back up again. Don't get like they thought again, so I'll try to stay busy.
Yeah, it's success like fun Good luck with that. Let's talk about the main reason where we're talking today, as I write in the book you you told me that you met Lynn in nineteen eighty four when you went to College Park to play Maryland. Can you tell me? And you got into a little bit of the specifics, but if you can recall maybe more detail, how did you did you walk up to him, did he walk up to you? How did you meet Lenn And what happened when you were did you guys hang out on that trip.
Yeah, we need to back it up a little bit. I'd watched Lynn well most of the time when I played, and coaches or people came to us, he had a certain player and I would hear about it. This was my fuge to make sure that at the end of that game you were talking about me, you know. And so I watched Lynn. Maryland had played Carolina and Lyn had a back to back it hit a jump shot, came me and throw the ball or dunk back with the one Mark Okay, I got and I saw that that clip and I was, I was this got here and it was like I could never do I could I always do more than Brad daughter would hear my name, you know what I'm saying, And a lot of the other guys I could still hear my name over. I can never hear my name over this Lynn biased guy. It was the eighty five eighty sixth season, I mean eighty five eighty six season. I got to see Lynn, and like I said, I'd been hearing about Lynn during the season. I hadn't seen them really that much because we were both playing at that time. But I knew we were going to Maryland and I just had to see, you know, how tall and Land was, how it was built, all this kind of stuff, because that would give me my satisfaction. Once a guy out the court kind of bring my nerves down on guys. Sometimes I would see guys need to be talling what what media had said. They are are shorter, so I had to see him. So once I saw him, you know what I'm saying. And again what Once we got on campus, we had a shoot around coach that we were here, hang out for a little while and go back to the hotel. Me and Nate went off to the where the classes were, and I was asking FoST where's Lynn at? Where is Lynn? And they actually directed me to the building in the class where he was at, and I guess the belly run when we went through and he was walking down the hall and I saw him and we talked right then for just a few minutes, and I just just had to see the physical him, and that's the first time i'd seen him, and you know, and I spent a little more at ease because I was a little taller than them, so I thought that was gonna hold some weight when we played, you know. But again we under spoke for a second. We said what I seen the night of the game, and uh, we lost that night. You know, he had a decent game. And then I finally saw why they were talking about Lynn Bias so much, you know. And and like I said, now you have to understand that was during mid season. Then lend them came to Raleigh play us at our home court, and after that I think they left right out. But it wasn't until after season that when in North Carolina has a thing called bomb storming.
Christ If we could back up for a little bit, so when you were when they came down to play against you in eighty six in Raleigh. I remember after that game, Len got suspended because he broke curfew. He went to a party with Keith Gatlin and John Johnson called her. They said they went with some some NC State players and called a freak mama contest. Okay, you remember if you were at that party.
Now, it wasn't it wasn't with me. Okay, it wasn't with me because at that time I said, I never hung out with Leon or anything until the bomb.
Star Okay, all right, yeah, so go ahead, did the Barnes. Okay, the barn storming.
At that time, I wasn't going, bro I was, you know, bomb stormer for senior people that had already declared they would go to the NBA. And at that time I had declare I was going. And so you know, I didn't even go to the game in North Carolina. But about about about twelve one o'clock in the morning, I get knocked at my door and it's the little guy that used to run around with the Renzo Charles. But he was also good with Valvano and all the coaches, and yeah, he would do little things for them, so make sure the players that get get the practice on time, or make sure that we could make a doctor's appointment something like that. So he was real good with the coaching staff. So he knock on the door. I looked out. Now, and I saw him and it was no problem me over the door. When I opened the door, Linn popped around the corner and I was, you know, and I was surprised. You know, Lynn in town, you know, and uh, you know, now I'm like the I'm like the groupie now, you know. Yeah, theyn't come on in, you know, sit down, let's talk, and all that kind of stuff. But they were doing some other things, which I told you before. I'm actually trying to get my book and stuff going. I can't give you all those in room details, but understanding that when he left that night, when they actually left that night, well not even that night, that morning, because I had to get them out of my bathroom so I could go in take a shower, so I had I had a seven fifty class that morning, and uh, let's just say I never made it to that class.
Well, Christ if I could interject, you told me for the book that that's that he introduced you to cocaine that night.
You just told me. That's correct, that's correct, that's correct, right, okay, right, And that's what and that's that. That's at that point where I said I never went went back to class. And to the point that coach reading them called me to the office and told me that I was going to be ineligible the next season. So I've already been suspended my freshman year, I played my sophomore year. Now you telling me I'm probably be in eligible my junior year. And so at that point I had I knew a couple oft eighties, So I called one and he told me he would put his ear out there to see if what he could hear. As for as well, my name fell in the draft, and uh, first time they called Chris.
Can we back up a second and go back to that night, please and tell me what more you remember about that was it? Were you surprised when when Lenn pulled out the covers wherever pull out the cocaine?
Well, well I wasn't surprised because again I didn't see who pulled it out. It wasn't in a power form. It was already in a glass jar to say, and they were needing the other I was one of the only me and maybe two other players had telephones. The other two guys were, as we said, back their nerves. You know, I was a cool guy, So you could come to my room in any time and use my phone, So they came to my room to use the phone. Like I said, they went off into the bathroom and use my phone and stuff. And I went back to sleep, but I had to get up for my seven fifty class. They were still in the bathroom. So there has been in four or five hours. And so when I came out, I told him, ID, that's which places. When I came out, I guess the person that they were waiting on came and help them do what they were doing. I came back out, and you know, someone asked you to try something of of of a status. You know that I put them on. You know, I don't want them to think I'm not cool, you know what I'm saying. So you offered me something I tried. You know. Now again just like back in the day when when somebody offered me marijuana, I tried it. Never got hooked on it, but I tried it, you know what I'm saying. So I tried this as well. But it was just something totally different about this here.
Were you surprised? Are you surprised that one was doing that?
I was. I was surprised yet because again I'd never done it. You know, I've always sayed, natural. I tried, you know, when I tried it that first time, Just to be honest with you, you know, I enjoyed it up until I finally quit fourteen years later. You know, it just gave me a different uh different a different body field. You know. I've seen the other players on other teams, uh snort cocaine before the games, you know. And so my thing was, I played a lot of times again guys that was already jacked up on something, not knowing it. You know what I'm saying, I'm out there playing natural. But when I tried that, you know, it made a big change in my life. And like I said, I never went back to class. I ended up leaving State. I left a car there, I left, closed everything. I never went back for almost until after the draft. And why did you leave? So why did you leave so quickly? But I left because coaches let me know that I was gonna be ineligible uh the following season. I hadn't know. I hadn't been in any class when they left that morning. I never left and went to class after that, you know, I stayed in the room. And then because once that high war all and it was such a new drug, I found myself riding around Raleigh, you know, wanting to find it, but scared to ask people for it because everybody knew who I was.
That that affected you that quickly, you wanted more that quickly.
Just I was hook the day one first hit. I was hooked. I never wanted to do classes or anything like that. So I said, when I actually went to the NBA, I was already damaged to it. That's why I just like I say when I tell the kids, when I talked to the kids about foss actually consequently being prepared when you get there, I was. I was unprepassed. I was already a crackhead going to the NBA. It was just at that point in time, I was a millionaire crackhead going into the NBA, and I I was new to the drugs through it. I wasn't addicted to it. Shit. I wanted to do it, you know what I'm saying, so I could put it down and go to practice or go to games. But as the addiction progressed, I started missing practices. I started coming late the games, you know, to the point where the NBA started taking notice and tipped off to my first rehab.
And then if I recall you had several other stints in rehab as well.
Right, Oh, I mean I went to rehab two two times, maybe three times in the NBA. One I went three times while I was in the NBA. When I left, uh, the rehab without the NBA's permission, That's when I found out that night on ESPN's I had been banned from the league. And so I mean, and again I'm just sitting there watching it. I'm not even getting high. I'm watching TV. I just left the rehab center because I was I wasn't doing drugs before I went, and I was just hanging around the same area. And the you know, dad, they said, I'm hanging around in the same areas, how much be doing something? So they put me back off in the rehab. So me when my my smart intelligence back then I left and they called me and they gave me they gave me an hour to get back. And you know, Chris always liked to walk the edge sometimes, and uh, you know, and and after that time went over, they didn't call me back or anything. Like I said. I saw ESPN to Chris Washburn's band from the NBA. And first thing, this is the junkie side of me was this was the first thing I thought about, was cool, No more practice, you know, not thinking that, no more income, you know. So and even the fven though it was said to me over the the TV, I stilled with the practice the next day, and to my knowledge, at that time, I was actually escorted or work in the arena because I wasn't a player no more. So now I'm seeing the guys going in, going down the hill, going into the Omni. I'm standing at the top of the hill, awaven to try to flag him down because I don't have any money and I want to get high, you know. And you know, I knew where we used to go after practice to go eat lunch and all that, and as a team, a few of us will get together to go. And so I started stalking those places out and then the guy started seeing me hanging in those places anywhere, started going to the different places I didn't know about, you know, And then so against I had to learn that.
Quick.
And hey, Chris, when Lynn died, did that impact your cocaine you so all? Did you think, oh my goodness, it killed him and could kill me.
I did, because I said we'd just gotten drafted that Tuesday, and I spoke to him briefly after the draft and told him I was coming through d C that Friday because I was gonna go back down the state. Did everybody see my new car? And then gone back to Heckory, my little hometown so my friends and family could see me. You know what I'm saying, that the new NBA guy. But and so we said, yeah, you know, we're gonna meet up. I said, I'll call you when I get in the Maryland such and such. I had his number at that time. And then, like I said, I was down. I was downtown in Manhattan doing uh, some kind of photo shoot and got asked me out here about Land and I say, now what about you know what I mean? You know he had died, and I didn't believe that time. The guy went and got a New York coach. He'll remember on the back of the post it showed me laying it passed. Now again, I was actively getting high at that point in time, so it did shape me. You know what I'm saying. I did stop for uh, you know, for a period of time. This was still before preseason even started, so I stopped. I went all the way through preseason without doing drugs. Right at the end of pre season, me and coach Carl had gotten into it, and that just gave me an outlet to, well, let me go find me some cocaine. You know, I know how to get rid of this problem right here, let me go get high and so again, and that just started it back up before a period of time to answer you. Unfortunately, I did have a a reagion of, uh, of not stopping, maybe slowing down, maybe not doing it like he did because over over the times, uh, you know, because I'm probably in a different circle than a lot of folks. Looking looking in on, I found out that he was drinking it as well as snorting and smoking. And see, when you do the cocaine cocktails, it freezes your whole body, so you can't tell when your heart is real fast, you know. And see, there are certain ways you can do to do cocaine. And my main thing was, I said I was never I started snorting in the beginning after I was introduced to it by smoke weight, and I saw the snorting, uh, you know, messing my nose up too much. What people would do can identify what I was doing. Smoking, I thought was a closet type thing. And and and that's what I chose to do. I never shot it up or did anything other than smoke.
So so how would they drink it? What would they put what liquid would they put it in?
They can put it in any kind of drink. I mean, it's just a clear power. And now you do it, once you drink it is just it just freeze your inside, just numbs the old inside. But when you do that, you can't feel your your heartbeat. You know what I'm saying. You can't. You can't tell when you've had enough to say.
And so like what was in your understanding that that's how Lene consumed it? He would drink it.
No, that's how I consume it. That that that one time is what I heard. And he tried to goain't cocktails because now he has the money to do these kinds of things. See before, you don't have that kind of money to just blursion. Uh drug cocaine wasn't back.
Then now now also did you, uh do you recall a few and Len used cocaine together after that first time.
No, never never got a chance to do again after that, after the bomb storming when they came back. But I had plans on using that weekend.
Yeah, okay, what I have now. I don't know if it was you or someone else told me they thought he was using cocaine during the draft up in New York.
It wasn't me to say that, but I wouldn't. I mean, I was using right before the draft I got in. Uh well, we were. We actually walked in, both of us walked in after the hit Tall Brad daughter's name, you know. And so that was just just that quick because by the time we sat down there and called him, and you know, by the time the switch started rolling off my forehead, they called me, you know, And but yeah, I just saw each other passing the hallway and that was it all right.
Now, uh Len's legacy, as you probably realized, it's pretty diverse. I mean, it saved people's lives. People say they never used drugs because he died through using cocaine. It affected a lot of lives. It altered lives. It altered your life by having him introduced it to you. How would you what would you or how would you summarize lens legacy? Not just the basketball We all know him as a basketball player, but other than that, what do you think was the biggest impact of his death.
It brought away I think to uh to the drug scene more so especially in the eighties where the NBA was just finally getting over the air on era in the seventies. You know, it just brought a light to show that, you know, Year the five specimen, a great athlete and it could kill him, you know. Uh. And here if you look at that whole first round draft, my yeah, uh Lan guy Lynn Tarfe Bedford. A lot of us was dabbling back then with it. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't look at it. I wouldn't harm Land's legacy with it because again it was a trial and arab here. You know, when we were all young trying something different. We all thought we were superman back then, so we would try things that we didn't think would hurt us or you know, or we would give things to each other that we didn't think would hurt the other person. That that this is a drug that can actually keep even uh guys in great shape.
How has as you look back on, as you would, well, you went to jail for a little bit.
Correct, I went to prison for three years.
In prison for three years. As you look back on your ordeal with drugs and serving prison time. Do you think this would have happened to you if you hadn't if you hadn't used cocaine that first time?
Was like, I don't, I don't know. I think I would have passed. You know, I missed a lot of things that I went through just from that one night, because again I didn't The only other person I was hanging with at State was Nate McMillan, and they didn't do any any kind of drugs. You know, we were beer drinkers, you know, I was. I was a little weed smoker back then, but Nate was a beer drinking and that's as far as That's as far as my range went. And being in North Carolina, the little country city there of Raleigh, cocaine wasn't big, you know. Now again, would I may have tried it later on, because again I didified myself in the rooms, even in the NBA, with other high profile guys that were doing things. And again I feel part too, because I didn't want them to feel a dope, and I was going to be the one to ra I'm out of say anything. So who's to say that, you know, a year or two later, five years later on down the road that I would have walked in the room and you know, one of the all Star guys lay up, been there and offered me something. I was just taking it.
You know, well, let me let me work this a different way. Do you blame Len for your situation?
Oh? No, I can't blame them, because again, I was abroad. I was still nineteen years old when I took it as a new right wrong. My thing was, I was just unafraid of anything. You know, I blame myself more so because I was unafraid of saying no, feeling like guys are gonna look at me different.
Do you use Lens Do you use Len's story at all in your presentations when you talk to people?
No? No, I mean no, no more than that. Yeah, look at it like this. A person, an enemy couldn't give you anything because they couldn't get close enough to you. You always get things good or bad from the closest people from you, I mean around your friends. And so again, if I didn't know Lynn, lincoldn't have got to me Lincoln and gave me. But because we were in the same profession, you know, I wanted to be more more like him more so on and off the court. I guess that I was willing to take a chance and and and entering his world and where I should have stayed into mind and then well we could still court exist on the court. I didn't have to jump off to his lane, you know, uh, just to be a part of and and And that's the only thing I blame myself off. Now.
I imagine your your story is so strong in itself, you don't really need to refer to what happened to lend to teach people. You know, this is what you shouldn't do. So as you look at back, look back at everything that you've been through, Chris, with drugs and and and serving prison time, and how you have you you have recovered? What is the biggest takeaway for you? What's the most important thing that that you you think back on and say, hey, you know this happened for this reason, or this happened for that reason, or anything to that effect.
Well, I mean when Land came to my room that night, it was for a reason, you know, and never knowing the reason was stretch out over forty years almost because I sit back and look at it, that Land would have probably never came to my room that night. That's that I was never introduced to drugs. Let's just say that, Uh, you know, I went off and had a great career. I may or not have met the ladies that I have, so I may and I have the kids that I have. Now you know, I may, and now I have met U Man. And I went to the gym that night because I was doing something else. I wouldn't have met my wife that night, you know. And so again a lot of these things I could be mad about, but and reverse, a lot of these things that happening good for me now came from that. You know. See, let's just understanding that if I'd had one hundred million, one hundred and fifty men like they started giving athletes back then, how to probably put my mom off into a home when I found out she had all times, instead of you know, shutting my house down in Texas and moving back, taking on the responsibility for teen years and helping her. You know what I'm saying, Because if I had one hundred and fifty million something like that, how to pay somebody else to do that, so I wouldn't had these last ten years with her sport. She just passed last US last May at ninety years old. So again I got a lot of good out of the wrong. I guess the worst part is I never got to really fulfill my basketball part where I could actually really seen well, you know, where I could have been, because on each level I played, I've always excelled and to All Star or you know, uh, one of the best, and so you'll actually get to the NBA where you know, all of this stuff to be in stone. Now I kind of gave it away freedom, you know, and and and those are the only things that I'm mad about, you know.
Could you could you go as far as saying you're glad it happened that Lennon introduced you to cocaine? Would you know that far?
I've no none. I wouldn't say that because again I never know what I could have actually been without the use of it. But again I'm not mad at him because he did, because again it opened up different doors that I may not have opened. You know, if it didn't introduce that to me, you know, I may have been on a different street doing something else and not have met the people that I've met over the course of the years because of what you know, what I got from him that at that time. But uh no, I'm not. I don't get upset about it because you know I did that at nineteen. If I'm still mad about something nineteen, uh and and may I'll be fifty five years old, you know I'd be crazy. You know, life is too short. I sit back now, I believe it or not, and look at all the guys that stayed in shape but did all the correct things, and that are dead now. You know that, the athletes, You know, I can still better bay about my friends, Anthony Mason shackle Put, when the war Ridge, you know, all these Bobby Field, all these guys did it correctly, and but but Butter not here at this time. I'm still here and I did it wrong with wrong, with wrong than anyone. So I must have a story to tell that someone. I hadn't met that right person yet, you know what I'm saying, because I'm still here. But there's the reason. While I'm still here, And like I said again, you know, cocaine opened up a lot of doors for me that it should have also opened up a lot of doors that it shouldn't know. It's just now that I know how to do around those doors that opened up. You know that I shouldn't be going to and I didn't when I was younger.
Okay, I have you been following the movement to try to change sentence sentencing maximums for drug possessions and all the social change happening there. Are you aware of that?
I am? I am.
What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it's heading in the right direction? Now we're drug crime drug drug sentencing should be reduced based on the crime. Do you have What are your thoughts on that?
I would think that and and again this is just Chris being an athlete. Especially the cases that are involved in marijuana. The marijuana thing, I don't see it being bad because I know a lot of guys that would rather smoke marijuans that take all the percase said, uh, hydro codones that the doctors prescribe us. They would rather smoke marijuana where it's more relaxing for them. Now I can see them throwing those kind of cases out. The cocaine, again, those are harsher drugs. And now these days, because when I talk to the kids, they're not just using cocaine, they're using scent and all they're using uh myths and all these different things to to add into it. So my question is, back when I was in the eighties, and I asked a lot of kids the back when I was in the eighties, Uh, there were three main addictions out there, heroin, cocaine, alcohol, and now those same addictions out there, but now we also have myth Uh, you have a flocker, you have wax sir, all these different drugs, and I'll be asking the kids, how high do y'all want to get it? Because a lot of time you're adding all the drugs on top of drugs they get you. You can only get so high, and then once you get that high, what is the plan after you get high? You know? And and and so that's why I said thoughts actually consequences, because if you if your time just sitting around planning on getting high, you're not playing on the future. And I'm the first one to say that after basketball left me, it took me a long time before I found me your niche as far as what I wanted to do, and that didn't last on because I was looking at that chick, compare it to an NBA chick, and it just didn't add up, you know. So that you kind of missed doing regular. That's why I had to start opening up things and working for myself. But you know, but but no, like I said, the drugs, uh, the marijuana part. And then I can see, you know, letting them everybody out that because it's now starting to be legal everywhere.
But you do, you have a position on reducing crimes for cocaine possession and distribution as it's trying to be implemented all that, the Social Justice reformed, the sentencing reform laws.
But I look at the cocaine just like they're looking at the myth. Now. Back then they back then cocaine and we were added, you know. Now the myth is more if they need help. You know, I look at and actually been an addict. Yeah, you can't live life on life terms. You need something to cope with you an addict. But cocaine wise, you know, I think everyone needs him. I think everyone needs the first, second, third, fourth, fifth chance, you know, because look at me. I went to rehab fourteen times. You know, I went fourteen times. And when I finally got it and I didn't go to rehab, I just came to a point where I was tired of doing it. You know, you can't make a person even now, even when I was in prison, because I wouldn't actually trying to stop getting huh. I was smoking, cracking prison, So it's in there as well, you know, So it only comes out to the person wanting to actually stop. I tell a lot of the kids, you can't do nothing for mom and daddy, baby, sister, brother, none of that kind of stuff. Until you're ready to stop, You're gonna keep doing it. Because I said, I waste a lot of people's money in time fourteen times, you know, until I was ready to stop myself, you know. And when I was ready to stop myself, believe or not, I never picked it back up. June June of two thousand and ten, sorry, June of two thousand and one is when I stopped. So I'm going on twenty years this June, and again, is it hard, Yes, because I'm just one one year away from being back to where I was at before. But the best thing I do know about this is that I know the knowledge of it now. I know if I take a hit, that I'm a liable to give all my jewelry away, upon my cars and different things better than in the beginning where you know, you knew I knew anyone. I didn't know anyone had done cracked or real cocaine, you know when I first started. So I had to kind of, you know, feel my way through you know, alcohol because my dad was a big drinker, I knew I never wanted to drink a lot of alcohol. To this day, I don't drink, you know, so so things presented to me I kind of watched and filtered out, you know, to do it in the bad. That was just something brock to me that I didn't know anything about. Chris.
Thank you so much for all your insights and your reflections.
Thank you, Len Bias A Mixed Legacy. The interviews was produced by Daveon Grady and Don Marcus any becaust Lend. Bias A Mixed Legacy is distributed by The Eights.
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