Hoops Tonight - CELTICS-SUNS REACTION: Jaylen Brown & Boston cruise past Kevin Durant & Devin Booker without Tatum

Published Mar 27, 2025, 6:53 AM

Jason reacts LIVE after the Boston Celtics and Jaylen Brown take on the Phoenix Suns and Kevin Durant/Devin Booker. The Celtics are without Jayson Tatum after he injured his ankle against the Sacramento Kings. Then, Jason discusses the Los Angeles Lakers epic game winner on a LeBron James tip in after Luka Doncic's missed floater against Tyrese Haliburton and the Indiana Pacers.  

Timeline

4:15 - Start

5:45 - Celtics/Suns

21:00 - Lakers/Pacers

46:00 - Mailbag

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)

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Of the show.

You guys know the joke before we started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at Underscore JCNLTC. You guys don't miss you announcement. So forget about a podcast feed where you get your podcast under Hoops tonight. It's also super helpful for leave a rating and a review.

On that front.

We also have brand new social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook where Jackson's making some great content throughout. Make sure you guys follow us there. Last, not least, keep dropping mail bag questions in our YouTube comments for our regular mailbags that we do throughout the weeks, we do them about once a week and we take those questions from the YouTube comments. Make sure you guys drop your questions there. All right, let's talk some basketball. So I thought the Celtics just put on a driving kick clinic tonight. I thought Phoenix had a extremely foolish game plan early in the game. They were like strong side zoning with Nick Richards. So basically like when Jalen Brown would dribble into a post up on the left side of the floor, Nick Richards was waiting on the right side of the block. There was a lot of overhelp and double team stuff with Phoenix early in the game on Jalen Brown. They had a lingering double team against Jalen Brown at the left wing. They had even just a random drive with from Derek White that seemed to be under control where Nick Richards just over committed to help and it led to another wide open three for Chris ops Porzingis. But to Jalen Brown's credit in particular, even though we hit a couple threes early, the three coming off of a wide screen on the left side, he hit another three off of an offensive rebound that was wide open at the top of the key. But he didn't really force the issue early on. He just took what the defense was giving them with those skip passes and the easy rotation situations, the easy advantages that were there on the week side of the floor, and that again, I just thought it was foolish because you're not even making the Celtics compromise you by attacking in a certain type of way. You're just giving them open shots by loading up on the strong side, which is like, absolutely not how you want to defend the Boston Celtics. You want to try to The Boston Celtics kind of have a little bit of a multiple personality type of you know, type of characteristic as a basketball team, and over the course of the last few years, they've been more onto the like where're hunting now, those great catch and shoot looks, We're going to move the ball around, but they've had potential over the years to kind of slip into.

Settling and playing a lot of one on one.

ISO ball, and you're never going to bait them into that sort of play if you just load up on the strong side and make those reads obvious and easy. And that just really set a tone for the rest of this game. And I thought everybody, starting from Jalen Brown down, just everybody was committed to that process of getting great shots, turning good shots into great shots. I talk about this concept all the time, but it's a simple idea of not falling victim to your talent, you know, like it's like you Peyton Pritchard can just walk up the floor and just hit a hard step back on and in and out dribble and get a three whenever he wants. Derek White can come off of a switch and a ball screen and just hit that pull up three during that switch interchange when there's a gap between the defense and look against the best defenses in the league, there's a certain amount of those shots that you have to make and your goals as a playoff team trying to get to to that you know, four playoff rounds and to get the Larry O'Brien trophy. But that is an order of operations that you follow, and you want that sort of shot to be something that you can make, that you will take, but it's not what you're actively hunting for. We've talked about this when in our last mail bag, the idea that your order of operations should be wide open, layup, wide open, catch and shoot three for the first like fifteen to twenty seconds of the shot clock before you even consider taking those unless you're in a great rhythm and it just feels good and you're in that sort of zone where you're starting to be more aggressive for your shot earlier in the clock. And like they just stayed relentless with that, and they're just so incredibly difficult to handle when they're playing that brand of basketball. This is a foundational part of Boston's basketball culture that is even separate from Jason Tatum. And like, if you're wondering how you win without your star, it's about having a basketball identity that is separate from the star. Now, the star you should have added to that identity and be a part of that identity. But when your team has a basketball identity that is separate from the Star that's what allows you to have success that this is a tough game, guys. This is on the road against the Sun's team that has won i think five out of six and is playing some of their better defense and doing some of their better rebounding over this phase of the season. Like, that's not an easy win. And you're going in there without Jason Tatum and you beat that shit out of them, And that stems from that basketball culture. And that's the thing. Like whether it's you know, Tatum and Brown and Porzingis with Derek White and Drew Holliday, or if it's some random combination of players and guys like Peyton Pritchard and Sam Hauser who will be in the playoff rotation. If it's Tory Craig that comes in and brings the style, it's Baylor Shiraman has been playing a little bit more as of late. Like it's coming and it's like, we're gonna expect you to defend, to run the floor, to get in your proper spacing, and when you get these catches with these advantages, like if you got to a catch and shoot, look you take it. If not, we're driving these closeouts. We're moving without the basketball and staying fluid, finding those openings for those kickouts, making those kickout passes, and being relentless about that pursuit of the great shot. Again, like that the good shot, you can fall victim for your talent to your talent and start settling, but the pursuit of that great shot is what actually allows you to have sustained success. There's a lot of these examples that you'll see where a player will come out and this has happened to Jylen Brown in his career before, where he comes out and he'll hit a couple of really tough early shots and you'll have a thirteen point first quarter or something like that. But like often those really difficult shot making sequences have a quick ending point and all of a sudden it turns into, well, like, how are you going to generate the great shots that we need to have sustained success over the game. The second thing I wanted to talk about in regarding this specific concept is just how dangerous or how different Boston's geometry is offensively because of what chrisops porzingis and now Horford can do. They're both knocked down three point shooters, hit six more threes in this game, but at the same time they can do scoring against mismatches in the post. They can be those connective playmakers. Again, when we talk about what makes the Boston drive a kick attack work, it's not just guys who can drive and Tatum and Brown and guys who can hit, catch and shoot threes in everyone else. Everybody has to be able to do all of the things. Everybody needs to be able to hit the shot but also to drive to close out, but also be able to make the read when the next wave of the defense shows up, and often what ends up happening. Like you want to know why Nick Richards looked completely lost in this game at times. It stems from the fact that it's unusual to face a team that has two five men who can both block multiple shots in a game like they did tonight, like do big man stuff, but also dribbleshoot and pass the way that they do, and that just puts you in a lot of really uncomfortable positions. Nick Richards is gonna want to help at the rim in transition defense situations, even when it's not necessarily a straight line drive. Why Because he's not used to having to account for the seven foot three guy who's trailing in transition and can knock down a twenty eight footer. And that's what it even gets crazier with Porzingis is he can push it even further and further out. But I was just really really impressed by the Celtics tonight. I thought Jalen Brown played one of his best floor game type of games in terms of just his decision making, feeling the flow, knowing when to attack, when to keep the ball moving. The centers were just absolutely absolutely demolishing them. I thought Sam Houser was great off the bench tonight. Seven straight wins for the Celtics. They've had a pretty light schedule in this face since the Thunder game, they had won six in a row, but they put a nice signature win on the end of that win streak by beating the Suns tonight. Again, that's a hot Suns team that was playing some really good basketball, a desperate Suns team that needs every single one of these wins, and Boston just thoroughly outclassed them on the Phoenix front.

You know, I've talked a.

Lot about this, these teams that are in that like kind of third tier of championship contenders where it's like you have your top tier championship contenders. These are the teams that really truly believe they have a great chance to win the title. Then there's like that second tier teams where it's like these teams, if you catch them on the right night, they look terrible, but you catch them on a different night, they look amazing. They struggle with consistency, but there's always that belief that stems there because they have these moments we beat these guys in this big game we did, like the Bucks for instance, like we you know, won the n Season Tournament and we shuck down the Oklahoma City Thunder and really dominated them. Like they have things they can point to that are like, these are signature wins we've had that add legitimacy to our pursuit.

Of the trophy.

But in that third tier, it's this group of teams that it's like do they even think they can win?

Right?

And what ends up happening in that tier is they have really sloppy effort and execution, in large part because it's hard to get the guys to commit to it because they don't even think they can compete with the best teams in the league even when they do those things. And that's the thing, Like, this is a Sun's team that has been defending and rebounding at a top ten level over this six game stretch, and they were hopeless to guard the Boston Celtics tonight, and so a loss like that can be really demoralizing. And their schedule is brutal down the stretch. This is going to be a tough go here for Phoenix. But as I talked about when we talked to Suns on Tuesday morning, I'm a strong believer that this is a vitally important phase for the Suns right now, this next stretch of ten games or so, because this is how you're going to set the identity for what you're pursuing next season. If your goal is to make some slight tweaks and go at it again with Devin Booker and Kevin Ran, it's going to start with the basketball culture that you establish now. And that's going to be difficult when there's not a lot to play for within this particular season. All right, let's move on to Lakers Pacers. So the end of the game sequence in crunch time, the Lakers went with their five shooter lineup, This is the Big Three, so Austin, Luca, and Lebron with Dorian Finney Smith and Ruy Hatchimura as the other two guys. This, in my opinion, is the best lineup that the Lakers can put together in terms of their version of the drive in kick talent. I've talked about this a lot this year, but the two teams with the two lineups that I think, well, the Celtics have a couple of different versions of it. But the two teams that I see as like true driving kick teams that can actually put five players on the floor that can all play this style and make it work are the Celtics and the Lakers. The difference is the Celtics can do it with five guys that are all great defenders too, and guess what, That's why I think they're the favorite to win the championship this year. But the Lakers can put together a similar lineup with Luca, Lebron, Austin, Dorian Phinney, Smith and Ruey in terms of you can't lead any leave anybody open, but you also have multiple players on the floor that if you let them play one on one, will torch you. They can actually force teams to choose between allowing wide open catch and shoot threes or allowing Luca and Lebron to pick on their weakest defenders in one on one situations. The conundrum presented for the Pacers this specific five man group was who does Miles Turner guard and who does Ben Mathern guard. Ben was having a really nice offensive nighties the latest and a long line of athletic guards that have given the Lakers some issues. He was getting into their bodies and forcing turnover or excuse me, forcing fouls and getting to the foul line, getting into two players at the rim and finishing there. He had a big time game, right, So they're closing with Miles Turner and Ben Mathern, who are they gonna guard? Well, Miles Turner's on Ruey Htchimura and Ben Mathern was on Austin Reeves, And so the Lakers just started to attack those two every time down the floor in the clutch, and they generated four consecutive wide open threes, like completely uncontested threes. Ruey brings Luca brings Ruey into the ball screen. Miles Turner doesn't want to give up the pick and pop three to Ruy, so he just throws a quick hedge and then sprints back to Ruey. Well, when he throws the hedge, Luca is able to turn the corner, gets Downhill, creates a wide open kickout three to Austin. Reeves has all day to look at this three out of the left corner. Next possession they're running off ball screen gets it's Austin screening for Lebron. That gets Matherin switched on to Lebron. What do they do? Throw the ball in the post to Lebron. Bron starts to back Ben Mathurin down Pascal Siakam double teams one pass away from Austin Reeves, kick out another completely uncontested, wide open three for Austin Reeves. After losing Luca Downhill on that Ruey ball screen, Miles Turner doesn't want to hedge and recover this time, so he stays on Luca. Two on the ball swing swing, there's Ruey wide open for three. Very next possession, exact same thing happens again, exact same two on the ball sequence, pitch it back for Ruey again, completely wide open three. Four times in a row, Austin missed both of his Ruey made both of his that put him back up by six. Now, even if you look at the two botched possessions for the Lakers like rue and he got Ruey when he got blocked at the rim or Austin in his turnover, like there were openings there. The Ruey situation, he kind of made the classic young player mistake of not just sticking with what's working. He went away from it. Miles Turner was kind of trying to jam him on the screen, and instead of just forcing his way up and setting the screen so that he can run the same action, he slipped out of it towards the basket and Miles Turner was able to recover and block him there. The Austin play ball screen, low Man another wide open kickout three to Dorian Finney Smith in the corner. Austin just had a bad passing angle and ended up turning it over to stop even when Carlisle put in the defenders puts in Aaron Nee Smith puts in Jars Walker. Dorian Finney Smith drives a close out after Luca curls on an off ball screen and gets downhill again draws help at the rim.

Kickouts.

Dorian Finney Smith dfs rips through the closeout. When he rips through the closeout, Austin Reeves is wide open on the left wing with like sixteen on the shot clock. Dorian just makes a bad decision at the rim and tries to shoot through two guys and ends up missing the shot. But like they have the ability with that lineup to relentlessly create completely uncontested threes. That's the bind that the Lakers put you in. Whether it's Jackson Hayes's a vertical spacer and more of a four out one in look, or it's that DFS RUI group, they can put you into some really difficult positions defensively trying to guard them into half court and guys, it's only gonna get crazier as Lebron gets into a rhythm. This is what's been weird about the sequence. When before Lebron's injury, Lebron was playing super well, Luca was in the upside down, couldn't make a jump shot to save his life. Luca gets his rhythm while Lebron's injured. Lebron's back now and he didn't make a field goal for the first three quarters of this game, and it still felt like the Lakers could get whatever they wanted, and so like that to me is what is the exciting part of the potential of this Lakers team. We're gonna talk about their defense in a minute, and there's obviously some problems there that they need to work out right now, but they should theoretically be able to, even in the playoff context, great shots over and over and over and over again, and that's gonna be what makes them so difficult to deal with. On the game winner, it's an interesting sequence. The Pacers get back into the game. I talked about the execution lapses, like this was a game where it felt like the Lakers were just in control every time and he made a run, the Lakers would be able to just flex their muscles, get great shots, get stops, and regain control of the game. But they damn near blew this one. They go up one to eighteen to one to twelve late in the fourth quarter, and there's just this really pathetic stretch of defense from Luka Dancic and Ruey Hachimura, just a bunch of really bad reps on of on ball defense where they lost control of Angel Emhardt and tyres Halburton and they just gave up a bunch of easy shots. And earlier in the game the Lakers were doing a lot of helping and rotating and doing a great job of shutting down that drill penetration against matchup hunting and things along those lines. But late in the game the Lakers had completely let go of the and they're help and recover and just straight up we're giving concession layups, like just we're letting when those guys would get dribble penetration, just let them go. And so again that's another thing we got to get into. But they end up toasting this off and Haliburton gets an and one against Luca that puts him up one nineteen to one eighteen, and so Carlisle makes a defensive sub takes Haliburton out, takes Miles Turner out, puts Jars Walker and Aaron Nee Smith. Then the idea here is they can do more switching, they can rotate better, and it did work for that one possession. They got to stop again Dorian Finney Smith just has to make a good read on that kick out to Austin and it could end up in another wide open three. But they ended up through their rotations, through their speed rushing Dorian Finney Smith into making a bad decision. Like one of the differences between the previous looks before the defense sub was the Lakers were able to get the wide open three right away off that first action. When Indiana brought their better defenders in, they force the Lakers to break them down incrementally, and again they did. They run the off ball action, they get Luca Downhill, Luca gets Downhill, draws help at the rim that forces Andrew Nemhard to rotate to the right corner. Luca makes the kickout. Dorian Finney Smith drives the closeout. But because there's more links in that chain, there's more potential for a mistake. Dorian Finney Smith makes a mistake and ends up in a stop right like that, in the same way that every offensive play you make makes a defender make a decision, every rotation you make as a defender makes the offensive player make a decision and ends up getting a stop. Dorian Finney Smith drives the close out, forces the layup, it ends in a miss. Carlisle hangs on to his last time out, presumably for just whatever might arise in the final minute in a situation where you might need a final shot, but it has a catastrophic blowback in the form of now you've got this group without Tyrese Haliburton on the floor that got to stop but needs to score, and that ends poorly as Ben Matherine has to throw up that kind of bs double pump jump shot at the top of the key, and now it's a live ball situation in Carlisle can't stop the clock and it's the final possession of the game. Kick ahead, Lebron gets Ben Matherin in the post and Lebron just makes a really smart read like he just he sits there and he goes Luca's trailing the play wide open, like there's no reason for me to do anything here. That's the second or third best player in the world just standing wide open at the top of the key because everyone's paying attention to Lebron rifles it to Luca. Siakam closes out at him, beats him off the dribble, and honestly, I thought Luca's look was great, that little floater in the lane. That's a really really high percentage shot from Luca. But the other downside of having Myles Turner off the floor not enough size around the rim, and so Lebron did a really nice job of getting inside a rebounding position on Jaris Walker after the kickout pass to Luca, and he just went right up and tapped it in right at the buzzer. And honestly, it masked a bunch of mistakes from the Lakers, because they those execution lapses were bad enough to cost the Lakers that game, and Lebron just made a play at the end and ended up being enough. It's funny because when all the drama was going down after the three quarters where Lebron didn't have a made field goal and he only had three points, I actually thought Lebron was playing really well at that point in time. Like if you look at the way the flow of the game was going, Like Lebron missed some easy shots that he typically makes in the early portions of the game. He like smoked a left handed layup that's like a layup he never misses. He missed an easy floater driving a close out off the right wing. Like there were some misses that were uncharacteristic, but like he wasn't really forcing the issue and the team was scoring well and things were going good. Second quarter stretch. It's the Austin Lebron group. Austin was cooking. Austin had it going. Lebron was still making plays. They were running a lot of two man game at the top of the key, and there was some switching, there was some uh. There was a two on the ball situation where Lebron got a roll and rifled a short roll pass to Dorian Finney Smith in the left corner and knocked down at three. Like, Lebron was still making plays in that stretch, but he just wasn't co opting the offense because why would he. Austin Reeves was cooking. Austin was crazy good in that second quarter scoring stretch, and so Lebron just facilitated as a connective playmaker in the offense and focused his energy on defense. That was an excellent defensive stretch for the Lakers that they won on. I think like a it's like a fifteen to oh or a seventeen oh run. Like they were really good defensively in that stretch. And so yeah, like, how is that going to manifest if if Lebron is going to not try to grab the rein so that he can allow Austin to get into a rhythm that's gonna hurt his scoring totals. Like Lebron could have been aggressive there and might have had a better box score performance, but it wouldn't have been what was best for the team. I mean, I mean, these things are really COMPLI this is why I don't believe in box score watching. Like Luca, for the record, had thirty six, seven and seven, I think, and I thought he also had a very uneven game, Like forget about just the final stretch I talked about. Luca was brutally bad on offense or on defense in this game. From the start in the first quarter, he was like losing track of Obi top In on a simple little off ball action or giving up easy dribble penetration because he's just not competing on the ball. Like I'm not worried about it, because I know Luca can be better than that. Like who knows if he's good enough to do it against the Celtics we're gonna find out, or against the Thunder we're gonna find out, or against one of these higher level Western Conference teams. But like, he can do better than he did tonight. Luca had an uneven game. I didn't think it was Luca's best game. They got killed in Luca's minutes. The Luca off groups are where the Lakers really took command of this game. So like it's one of those things where that's why box score watching is so pointless. Luca had thirty six, seven and seven, Lebron had thirteen, seven and thirteen or whatever it was that he had, and like Lebron was just doing it in different ways defensively as a rebounder, like timely scoring in various points of the game. So that's what's kind of interesting about it. But that said ended up being like kind of bad for Indiana that Lebron only had three points going into that fourth quarter stretch because Lebron had a bunch of favorable matchups in that early fourth quarter stretch against Indiana's bench, and he just got super aggressive going downhill and quickly got over that ten point mark and blew the lead out to double digits pretty quickly there. But of course more execution lapses were preventing them from gaining complete control of the game. But all in all, I thought Lebron, even though he didn't score the ball super effectively tonight, I just thought he played a really good game. And I mean hell, he literally made the play that won it. So again, as I always talk about, like no matter how bad things are going, just make a play, just make a play, and you can make it all go away. There's a version of that where they lose and everyone talks after the game about how poorly Lebron played looking at the box score, and even though that wouldn't be full context to everything that he did, he made one play at the end and it erased everything and now he's the hero, and it's just a reminder of why that resilience is so valuable. I want to talk a little bit about the Lakers in the big picture before we wrap up and head to our mailbag. You saw their offensive potential in a lot of ways tonight, right We talked about the five out spacing, their consistent ability to generate great shots. But they still have a lot to clean up on. And this is the exciting part about them putting it all together and becoming a true championship contender. Like I talked about with Golden State and the Lakers, they're the two teams this year because of their substantial changes at the deadline. They're basically new basketball teams, especially the Lakers because it's such a stylistic shift going away from Anthony Davis right, and that means this is training camp. This is where you're becoming the team for this team, specifically uniquely under the circumstances. This is where they're learning each other. This is where they're they're in like the December January phase, or excuse me, the November December phase that all of the other top tier championship contenders we're in. They're still learning about what they need to get better at, learning about what their identity is. And some of that is problematic in the sense that they don't have a lot of time, But at the same time, it's exciting because it means there's a lot of potential on defense. For instance, Luca and Rui just their attentiveness and their competitiveness on the ball. I thought both of them all night, including the late game stretch. We're just really sloppy on that end of the floor. The consistency of the teams help in rot help in recover situations, and how well they rotate when they give up dribble penetration. They had so many excellent possessions tonight when Lebron is really flying around and helping recover every and Dori Infinny Smith is flying around and everyone's committed on defense, they can be really, really good. Do I think they're going to be a top five defense with Luca, No, but they certainly can be in that six to ten range.

They've shown it.

They've shown it with Luca before Lebron James got hurt when they went on that big winning streak, and so a lot of this is gonna be you have to manage a certain amount the wear and tear on all these guys' legs over the course of the final ten games of the season. But at the same time, this team needs a certain baseline of their habits on defense in terms of their commitment for forty eight minutes to doing what they need to do and help in recover situations. Because they have Austin and Luca out there, Jackson out there, Gabe out there, guys that teams will look to attack from time to time, and so this is going to be its team that's going to have to be really sharp in their help and recover situations. And they had some real inconsistency with that tonight. That's something you need to polish up on offense. I talked about Lebron getting in a real rhythm. To me, what's exciting about this team offensively is when you get both thirty point per game Luca and twenty seven point per game Lebron both, you know, sixty sixty three percent true shooting. When they're both at that level, that's where the real offensive upside is there, and that's what I'm waiting to see over the final few weeks. Continuing to improving, continuing to improve attacking teams that switch a lot of screens again Indiana, one of the big issues there down the stretch was their ability to attack a screening action with Miles Turner where they were either hedging or doubling that created natural openings for them to capitalize on. Their offense has always looked great against that sort of defense since the Luka Doncics trade. Getting it to the point where they succeed well against switching defenses over the course of the next few weeks, that's going to be an important part of putting.

This all together.

And then, lastly, the overall laps is in execution. This has been an issue with this team that I think has extended even pre Luca, but has continued under Luca where it's like the ninety seconds at the end of a quarter where you have a sloppy turnover, a bad shot, compounding mistakes like the Austin throws that lob to Lebron. This is a huge sequence, Like it's a seven point game. If Lebron catches the lob and dunks it, they go up nine miles. Turner deflects it, they go out the other way and score. Seacom scores on a eurostep that cuts it to five. Is a huge four point swing in the fourth quarter. But Austin goes down right after that in Jack's up a step back three early in the clock, Like that's compounding the mistake.

That's the kind of thing that.

Leads to the bursts of runs that can take what look like efforts where you watch the Lakers and it looks like they're controlling a game, but somehow the other team is lingering. And a lot of that stems from these just these lapses in judgment, these compounding mistakes that end up undoing a lot of their success. But all in all, I was impressed. Every time you have bad back to back games like what happened to Chicago against Chicago and at Orlando. It's always kind of an inflection point for me between the good teams and the bad teams. The bad teams tend to spiral. Oh, you're going to play the Pacers at home, who have won seven seven of eight red hot Pacers team. Then you have to on the back to back head to Chicago. Like, that's a tough stretch of games. But like the good the bad teams will spiral in those situations. The good teams are like, fuck that, we're better than the Pacers. Let's go beat them. And again, like I thought this game, even even with Lebron effectively stealing it at the buzzer, I thought the Lakers played a lot of really, really good and dominant basketball in this particular game. The question is can they continue that on the road in Chicago tomorrow. It'll be really interesting to see how they do it from the rotation standpoint too, because I'm sure some guys are feeling pretty sore.

After that after that particular game.

All Right, that's all I have for those For tonight's games, We're gonna get into our mail bag, Jackson, what do you got for us?

Man?

What is going on? Jason? Everyone in the chat please continue to ask your questions. I will be picking some from the chat to start with. Let's go with what is your favorite type of defensive player to watch? I personally love a versatile forward like Tomani Kamara.

Imani's awesome, and Timani has some characteristics in the archetype I'm talking about, too, because he is big and strong and has a strong base. But I have always been partial to the lower center of gravity, like wider bodied, like bigger, stronger, like fire hydrant type of wings. This is like like yea you dor, Alex Caruso, Bruce Brown kind of fits this mold. Terrence Man kind of fits this mold, like even like to a lesser extent for Laker fans, like this is what Jordan Goodwin's archetype is. He's just a much lesser version of it. But I find that they can win battles on the ground more than some of the taller rangier wings can. I think I think the taller ranger wings are more valuable in rotation situations because of their ability to cover ground, But I find the the those fire hydrant guys to be tougher. Part of it, too, is like I'll just be honest, like from my own playing experience, like, I think that the most effective form of defense is disrupting the base, not disrupting the top of the shot. These guys are professional shot makers. They don't see hands in their face, but if you bother their rhythm, if you break up their ground game leading into the shot, you can force missus. And that's why I'm a big believer in that archetype. I just think they're good at disrupting bases.

I like that. I like sort of the the Draymond Green, versatile big type who can sort of do the two places at ones thing. But in terms of guard wing defenders, this is just a personal preference, I think because I when I play basketball, I gamble a lot defensively, so I like players like Gary Payton and Marcus Smart, who You're like, that dude is going to disrupt something. He might get lost a time or two making a bit too gambly of a gamble, but he is disrupting something every possession, and they're like, I've been I'm on the Gary Payton, the second hype trained kind of. I think that if he could shoot and got thirty plus minutes a game would be in the defensive player of the Year guard like, you know, not the guards don't hit it very often, but he would be in that defensive player of the Year guard like conversation because he is so disruptive. No one wants to dribble when that guy. He has mastered the pick the pocket clean thing. His hands are crazy.

Gary Payton's one of my favorite players because we competed against each other a bunch in college and he was always just a really nice guy and someone that I enjoyed competing against. And he was one of those guys too that he was one of those guys too that like kind of felt like he was in that same archetype we're talking about of like kind of a lower center of gravity, groundbound like ball pressure guard. But he struggled to find his footing in the NBA there for a while. But like Golden State's been such a natural fit for him because of his read and react talent and that ability to you know, like play in that inverted spacing that Steph creates. But yeah, I mean, like it is it. It is all about personal preference at the end of the day, and like a lot of it has to do with scheme too, Like there are if you're in a switching scheme, then the range yer forwards are more valuable. If you're in a drop coverage scheme, then like a certain type of guard defender becomes more valuable, or rim protector becomes more valuable. Like so much of it depends on the surrounding talent as well.

I like this one that we just got from Kyle. What is the biggest mental advantage matchup you've seen in your time watching a basketball? Example being it felt like the Nuggets really owned the Lakers in that twenty two, twenty three, twenty four phase and it felt like there was sort of like a mental block. There are there any other ones that you can think of? That's a hard question of it.

I think the obvious one is the the Warriors advantage over the Clippers in the mid twenty tens. That was the one where, like legitimately, year after year after year, it just.

Felt like they couldn't win in that matchup.

There are several good ones, though, just kind of a funny one starting to bloom here between Minnesota and Denver two. Uh, but uh, the Lakers Denver one. I was on the wrong side of that one. That's a brutal feeling, but yeah, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go with Clippers Warriors.

I the ones that popped to mind for me because I'm a Celtics fans are ones that flipped actually, like it did feel like they had a little bit of a mental advantage. John lebron Or when he was still in Cleveland the first time, and then he gets over the hump in Miami and it's like, Okay, there's no we have no chance to beat this guy none. And the same thing is true. I think of the wait to the two ten Celtics against Pagasol, where in eight they're like, they just put that in the box. They just put that dude on an absolute cage. And then you have all the stories about Kobe over the summer talking to Pal YadA, YadA, YadA, and it did genuinely feel like he was kind of unguardable in twenty nine and ten, I was like I hated Pagasol as a kid because I was like, this dude dominates us after we completely held him in check.

For dude, it's it's I think getting humiliated is the best thing that can happen to you as a basketball player. I remember I remember one of the last times that I got humiliated. There was a a dude from Toronto who was playing with me in this uh this like professional league that that they were getting ready to start up in India, and we had all signed deals and we were like doing this like two week kind of like promo thing in the US and then we were all about to ship out to India and then the league ends up fold the league ends up folding, and the whole thing falls apart. But I meet this guy from from Toronto, and he was just like better than me at everything, Like he was taller, but he was also like big and strong, but like a little bit bigger and stronger than me, Like he was a little bit better at handling, a little bit better at shooting, like a little bit better at everything, and the worst fucking He was super nice and he was and like we because we were together for like two weeks, like him and I had like done I talk quite a bit, got to know each other a little bit. Like we were both working in real estate at the time, as like our like day job, and it's just like but what ends up happening is you get your ass kicked, and like that reinvigorated me in my like player development stuff, and I spent most of COVID like adding all these little things to my game because I just got sick and tired of that dude kick in my ass, Like it's it's so good, like like that can be the best thing that happens to basketball players get humiliated.

Someone in the chad also said, Lebronto is another.

That's a great one, per great example of.

This, one perfect example of this, of this sort of thing we're describing. All right, hey, Jason, what would you do if you if you were the new GM of the Dallas Mavericks and the goal is to win a championship next year or like as soon as possible, love the show, keep up the day.

If the goals to win the championship next year, you run it back and you and you lean on the concept that you made this trade for to begin with, even if we can all agree that it was bad reasoning, which is, if you put together these vaunted ad Derek Lively PJ Washington lineups with all of this versatility on the perimeter, with obviously Kyrie's out there, but you've got like a big shooter positional defender in Clay. You've got a ball handler and Spencer Dinwoodie or a guy that can do a little bit of both in Naji Marshall or I don't know why they got rid of Quinton Grimes. That was a really weird one and like that that kind of feels like the latest and a long line of like why did they let him get away?

Kind of situations?

But they traded him for Kayleb Martin.

I don't understand it, man, but like it's it's and Kayla Martin's a great defender and and but the thing is is that that was something Quentin did pretty well too, in addition to his scoringtop But the point is is that like, you're not gonna make some sort of sweeping change that's gonna bring you championship contention. It's that tiny window of Nico Harrison's reasoning when he made the Luca trade, which is like, what if we become the best defense in the league and give me Kyrie Irving and a huge, physically imposing team, and let's see if we can just win rock fights. And there's a chance there. I would call it a very slim chance, but there is a chance there.

Yeah, I suppose the only real other move I could think of if you're trying to do something that you do sort of haven't I mean not this season because they can't stay healthy. They almost have an overabundance of bigs and Derek Lively. It's really young, so I'm wondering if there's like a way you can trade Lively and packaging with a contract for another wing. But you might as well just run.

With what they got. I think.

I think if Dallas traded Derek Lively, then there would be an actual riot.

Right there is no more than the window is like nine months, Like you don't even have a window anymore, Like that.

Is the window that season.

Uh, let's do this one between the second tier teams, second tier title contenders, which potential matchup would be the most fascinating from a round one moment?

Okay, let me pull up the standings here.

I was gonna do the same.

So I think that these ones in the middle of the Eastern Conference are going to be fantastic. I'm super excited for these and it's up in the air a little bit. But with the it looked like it was gonna be Piston's Nicks, and the Pistons have had some success against New York this year, and they had been able to do some matchup attacking there. But Milwaukee with the Dame injury, is now dropping games and they could end up dropping. It's kind of a bummer, and who knows, maybe Yiannis will be able to pull them up. But like Pacers, Bucks is such a great rivalry already, and I think Nicks Pistons Pacers Bucks would have felt like an old school Eastern Conference throwdown between the Knicks and Pistons, and then like a rivalry between the Pacers and Bucks. So let's hope that those two series kind of come to fruition out west. I think it would be really fun to see denver La in a series that's completely different now than Anthony Davis has gone, with all the bad blood that exists between those two teams, but I still consider them to be upper tier contenders, so I'm gonna go with I think I think Golden State Houston would be a ton of fun because of the Dylan Brooks thing. And yeah, there's the Dylan Brooks thing. There's also like talk about his styles, make fights type of series, like all the experience, all of the veteran know how in IQ is going to be in Golden State's favor and then Houston's just going to have an absurd athletic and physical advantage at like a bunch of spots on the floor. So, like, I think, I think that would be a fun one as well.

That is really fun. Dylan Brooks has now that he is not He's somehow not as like present in our lives. I think because Houston doesn't get national TV games as even as much as Memphis did, he he's become a little bit more of like a benign fun figure than this kind of like actually kind of grading personality. So I agree with that. I think that you're so right about the East, and I think any of the three four, five six orientation kind of works. The one we have actively right now is nix Bucks, Pacers, Pistons and getting a Malice at the Palace teams rematch with Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Duran on one of the teams while the Pacers are like kind of chip like chirpy. Yeah, I think that there's the way that that series gets really physical in a way that I'm not sure if Indiana is prepared for, and I'm not sure the NBA referees are prepared for and I think that you could have a real crazy, really fun Pistons.

There's upset potential there too because Detroit. Yeah, we talked about it earlier with the Lakers, but Kate is Luca light, so to speak, and Indiana presents a lot of those similar situations that Luca just put them in, where like he can get two on the ball or force hedges which unlocks his playmaking. Like Detroit's gonna be able to get good shots in that series, so that that would be a fun one too.

Detroit's gonna be able to get good shots against most people. I think Kate, like in a games slow down. Great perfect for Kate Counningham, No issue, zero issue for Kate Counningham. All right, let's do how long have we been going here?

Let's do a couple more and then we can We've been going for about twelve minutes.

Let's do.

Uh. This is sort of piggybacking off of our episode today which had Bucks fans and the comments very upset. We're talking about another another NBA, another NBA media personality talking about shipping Giannis out. But it was just a speculative thing and then everyone's talking about it.

Okay, I'm sorry, Bucks fans, but if you don't acknowledge that there's a potential Yannis trade in the future, I don't know what to tell you. That's not to say that it won't happen, like that, it's possible that they pivot and get him to recommit, but like it's looking bleak right now and so like.

And we're not rooting for him to go to New York or anything. Jason is just commenting on the stage.

If he becomes available, the thunder ari potential threat because they have the necessary assets. If they were to pull it off, that would be fucking terrifying. That's literally, That's right. That's all we're getting at.

It, all right. This question, though, is this person said, I think giannest is going to ask for a trade on the offseason, looking at potential landing spots. I would like your thoughts on a Jaw for a Yannis trade, and how would Triple J and Yannis sort of pair together as a front court duo. That's a complex question, but it is an really interesting one because I do think I feel like there's some weird like Jaw, the vibes around jar are strange in general.

Two, the Grizzlies have struggled capitalizing on spot up possessions, which has been part of their issue with kind of like succeeding succeeding as teams get rim protection in front of jaw and kind of pack the paint and cause their offense to slow down. I think my gut feeling is that the Yannis Jaron Jackson fit would be super clunky, because I've talked a lot about this, but like when it comes to shooting bigs, there's a fine line between a guy that shoots, you know, in a certain percentage from three and like, oh, we're chasing this guy off the line. And if you're gonna pair Giannis with a big, it's gotta be someone who is very comfortable out there operating almost exclusively. And part of the issue there too is Jaron Jackson is at his best when he's playing with his back to the basket and taking all those little hooks and floaters and spins and all that kind of shit. And where's Gianni's gonna stand during that? That that's where it gets tricky. I think that's a I think that's a tricky matchup or tricky fit.

I should say, all right, for our last question, let's do this one. If Cleveland wins a wins a ring this season or at all in this era, would you classify Donovan Mitchell as a quote small guy being the guy on a championship team. The only ones we've really seen before being Isaiah Thomas and Steph Curry, who is really good. He's like Dwayne Wade size sort of. So it's like and we don't, I don't think of Dwyane Wade. That might but it's a really fun question.

Yeah, you know, they're not the twenty fifteen Hawks where it's like nobody's a star, but it's a similar version of that with star talent in the sense that, like, to me, this is like Donovan's clearly the best player, but they all kind of feel on similar tiers for me, where it's like Darius Garland has been unbelievable this year and has become one of my favorite players in the league to watch. Evan Mobley is a defensive Player of the Year candidate who runs action for them and can go for twenty twenty five on any given night. Jared Allen, we talk about your value on your specific role in your specific team. Jared Allen's finishing ability in ball screens and his ability to switch on defense in pick and roll like unlocks so much of their floor on both ends of the floor, and so like almost it almost reminds me of the Pistons in the sense that, like Isaiah Thomas was the tip of the spear that put them over the top. But you don't look at those teams as like carry jobs. You look at them as like you know, by committee, if that makes sense.

For sure.

All right, guys, that was fun as always. We sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We got a bunch of content coming out over the next couple of days. Between mail bags, we have uh we did about forty minutes with Sam as Fondiari on a bunch of warrior stuff. I am getting on a plane tomorrow for one last bit of respite before the playoffs. I'm going to see three nights of Debt and Company at the Sphere. I'm super, super, super irrationally excited about that. So we're gonna take one last little break and then then it's grime time and we're gonna be uh covering the playoffs closely. Again, I appreciate you guys for rocking with me and supporting the show. We got lots of content coming out over the next couple of days, and then I will.

See you again live on Monday.

What's up guys. As always, I appreciate you for listening to and reporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.