It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan DevineIt’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

A Renaissance of Our Own: The Stories We Tell Ourselves with Rachel Cargle

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Can grief be an opportunity for growth and self-understanding?

The answer, of course, is yes: but it’s a bit more complex than that. This week, author, philanthropist, activist Rachel Cargle on survival optimism, the resilience narrative, and why questioning the stories you tell yourself - with curiosity and kindness - is a powerful path of healing. 


In this episode we cover: 


  • How was grief modeled for you growing up, and how does that affect later grief?
  • Can your memory of childhood grief be… entirely wrong? (or at least, inaccurate)
  • Can you do grief wrong?
  • The difference between curiosity and judgment
  • Is it ok to feel relieved when a sick person dies? 
  • Rachel’s new book, A Renaissance of Our Own


We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.


Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

Related episodes:

Gabor Mate on why we celebrate trauma, aka: resilience 

Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the power of storytelling as an act of healing

About our guest:

Rachel Cargle is a writer, entrepreneur and philanthropic innovator. Her new memoir, A Renaissance of Our Own, centers the reimagining of womanhood, solidarity and self. In 2018 she founded The Loveland Foundation, Inc., a non-profit offering free therapy to Black women and girls. 


She’s also the founder of Elizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre, a literacy space designed to amplify, celebrate and honor the work of writers who are often excluded from traditional cultural, social and academic canons. For more on her many endeavors, visit


About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief


Additional Resources:

Read Rachel’s new book - A Renaissance of Our Own


The Great Unlearn – a self-paced, donation-based learning community


The Great Unlearn for Young Learners – an online learning space for young folks launching in 2022


Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here


Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

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Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyo 
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