Hi friend! Thank you so much for downloading this podcast of In the Market with Janet Parshall, and I sincerely hope you hear something that will encourage you, edify you, enlighten you, equip you, and then we'll get you out the door into the marketplace of ideas. But before you go, let me tell you a little bit about this month's truth tool. It's written by a man who is a chronic doubter. Doctor Bobby Conway was a Christian, and after years he began doubting his own faith. As a result of that, he's come out now stronger, fully committed to the validity and the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but keenly aware of the kinds of questions that chronic doubters ask. So in his book, Does Christianity Still Make sense? Doctor Conway does a superb job of telling us how we can answer 20 of the most difficult questions you and I will ever be asked about Christianity. Questions like why are there so many scandals in the church? And aren't Christians just a bunch of hypocrites? And why does God allow evil in the world? Is there really reliable evidence for the existence of God? This is a must read for everyone who wants to know how to contend for the faith when they get out there in the marketplace of ideas. This is this month's truth tool, and it's my way of saying thank you. When you give a gift of any amount to in the market with Janet Parshall, just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 and ask for your copy of Does Christianity Still Make sense? And I'll gladly send it off to you as my way of saying thank you for financially supporting this program. You can also give online just go to in the market with Janet parshall.org. Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of the book. Click on Make Your Donation online. And likewise you'll also get a copy of Does Christianity Still make Sense? While you're there, consider becoming a partial partner. Those are my group of friends who give every single month at a level of their own choosing. They always get the truth tool of the month every month, as long as they're a partial partner. And they will also get a weekly newsletter from me that includes some of my writing and an audio piece just for my partial partners. So pray about it. Consider a one time gift or an ongoing contributor to the program by becoming a partial partner. 877. Janet 58. That's. 877 Janet 58 or online at In the Market with Janet parshall.org. Thanks so much. And now please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends. This is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour with us. Today's program is pre-recorded so our phone lines are not open. But thanks so much for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.

Hi friend! Thank you so much for downloading this podcast of In the Market with Janet Parshall, and I sincerely hope you hear something that will encourage you, edify you, enlighten you, equip you, and then we'll get you out the door into the marketplace of ideas. But before you go, let me tell you a little bit about this month's truth tool. It's written by a man who is a chronic doubter. Doctor Bobby Conway was a Christian, and after years he began doubting his own faith. As a result of that, he's come out now stronger, fully committed to the validity and the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but keenly aware of the kinds of questions that chronic doubters ask. So in his book, Does Christianity Still Make sense? Doctor Conway does a superb job of telling us how we can answer 20 of the most difficult questions you and I will ever be asked about Christianity. Questions like why are there so many scandals in the church? And aren't Christians just a bunch of hypocrites? And why does God allow evil in the world? Is there really reliable evidence for the existence of God? This is a must read for everyone who wants to know how to contend for the faith when they get out there in the marketplace of ideas. This is this month's truth tool, and it's my way of saying thank you. When you give a gift of any amount to in the market with Janet Parshall, just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 and ask for your copy of Does Christianity Still Make sense? And I'll gladly send it off to you as my way of saying thank you for financially supporting this program. You can also give online just go to in the market with Janet parshall.org. Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of the book. Click on Make Your Donation online. And likewise you'll also get a copy of Does Christianity Still make Sense? While you're there, consider becoming a partial partner. Those are my group of friends who give every single month at a level of their own choosing. They always get the truth tool of the month every month, as long as they're a partial partner. And they will also get a weekly newsletter from me that includes some of my writing and an audio piece just for my partial partners. So pray about it. Consider a one time gift or an ongoing contributor to the program by becoming a partial partner. 877. Janet 58. That's. 877 Janet 58 or online at In the Market with Janet parshall.org. Thanks so much. And now please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends. This is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour with us. Today's program is pre-recorded so our phone lines are not open. But thanks so much for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.

Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

Americans worshiping government over God is extremely rare.

Americans worshiping government over God is extremely rare.

Safety move.

Safety move.

By a major 17.

By a major 17.

Years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.

Years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.

This is not. The. End.

This is not. The. End.

Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for joining us. Hey, when we walk around Vanity Fair. If I can borrow from John Bunyan today, we call it the marketplace of ideas. I can pretty much guarantee you that at one of the booths, they're going to be talking about the best selling book of all times. Yeah. Don't look for it right now on the top of the New York Times best selling list. Nonetheless, it remains the number one seller in the history of publishing. Can you guess? You can use a lifeline or call a friend if you want to. Nah, I'll make it easy for you. It's that book that's on your nightstand that you should be reading on a regular basis, the one I hope is not covered with dust. The one that I hope is a lamp unto your feet and a light unto your path. And I hope it's the word that you're hiding in your heart so you won't sin against him. Shall I go on? Yeah. And here's the bad stuff. The bad stuff is the data out there that says you and me, the followers of Christ, those of us who have confessed with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed in our heart, that God has raised him from the dead. We're not doing so good in this area. In fact, the word illiterate comes to mind. Yeah, we should be reading it because I don't know how you go through life without bread. I don't know how you go through life being thirsty when living waters in the Bread of Life is offered in that book on a regular basis, how do you go through life? As we often quote Billy Graham, by saying The Bible should be in one hand, the newspaper in the other. If you are not reading it. And why do we sometimes say some really bizarre things about the Bible that are not about the Bible at all? So the time has come for us to start thinking at a 400 level class. Okay. No more primary level Sunday school class. These are tough times. They require mature saints. Bold and courageous, muscular saints. I'm going back to Brother Paul, who told us to put away those childish things and to grow up. And I would venture to say, just spend five minutes. No, you won't be able to last that long. Two minutes going through the news channel. And I bet you're going to say, wow, things are upside down. Yep. They are. And the only way you make sense of that mess out there is by looking at what Dwight L Moody called the straight stick of truth, the word of God. So we're going to talk about the Word of God. How did it come to be? What does it mean to be inspired? What does it mean to take the word literally when someone says to us, oh, come on, ignorant Bedouins, they wrote it 500 years after the fact. And there was this like this council, I don't know, some hundreds of years ago. And they went, okay, we'll pick those books, but we won't pick those books. Really? We're supposed to be prepared. Uh oh. Yeah. That means you're going to have to do some homework, study to show yourself approved unto God. A workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. So, yeah, we're going to have to roll up our sleeves. We're going to have to do our homework. Because how in the world are we prepared to give a reason for the hope that resides within us if we don't? So there's this marvelous new book out that's succinct, it's pithy, it's to the point, and it's one of those pocket books that you need to be reading on a regular basis. It's simply entitled seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. Now, if you're like me, a book like that gets your attention. But then when you realize that the author is academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College all the way in Melbourne, Australia, and then you decide to open the book and read it, then you realize that he's the author of more than a dozen books, including What Christians Ought to Believe and Evangelical Theology. He also runs a popular studies blog called while I can't Even Say the name, I'm going to get Mike bird to tell me how I pronounce that, and he can be followed on Twitter as well. It's early. I mean, really early in the morning. I hope Mike has grabbed himself a cup of coffee because, well, I'm getting ready for supper and he probably hasn't even had breakfast yet. Mike, the warmest of welcomes. Can't believe that we have technology that connects my half of the globe with your half of the globe. Welcome.

Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for joining us. Hey, when we walk around Vanity Fair. If I can borrow from John Bunyan today, we call it the marketplace of ideas. I can pretty much guarantee you that at one of the booths, they're going to be talking about the best selling book of all times. Yeah. Don't look for it right now on the top of the New York Times best selling list. Nonetheless, it remains the number one seller in the history of publishing. Can you guess? You can use a lifeline or call a friend if you want to. Nah, I'll make it easy for you. It's that book that's on your nightstand that you should be reading on a regular basis, the one I hope is not covered with dust. The one that I hope is a lamp unto your feet and a light unto your path. And I hope it's the word that you're hiding in your heart so you won't sin against him. Shall I go on? Yeah. And here's the bad stuff. The bad stuff is the data out there that says you and me, the followers of Christ, those of us who have confessed with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed in our heart, that God has raised him from the dead. We're not doing so good in this area. In fact, the word illiterate comes to mind. Yeah, we should be reading it because I don't know how you go through life without bread. I don't know how you go through life being thirsty when living waters in the Bread of Life is offered in that book on a regular basis, how do you go through life? As we often quote Billy Graham, by saying The Bible should be in one hand, the newspaper in the other. If you are not reading it. And why do we sometimes say some really bizarre things about the Bible that are not about the Bible at all? So the time has come for us to start thinking at a 400 level class. Okay. No more primary level Sunday school class. These are tough times. They require mature saints. Bold and courageous, muscular saints. I'm going back to Brother Paul, who told us to put away those childish things and to grow up. And I would venture to say, just spend five minutes. No, you won't be able to last that long. Two minutes going through the news channel. And I bet you're going to say, wow, things are upside down. Yep. They are. And the only way you make sense of that mess out there is by looking at what Dwight L Moody called the straight stick of truth, the word of God. So we're going to talk about the Word of God. How did it come to be? What does it mean to be inspired? What does it mean to take the word literally when someone says to us, oh, come on, ignorant Bedouins, they wrote it 500 years after the fact. And there was this like this council, I don't know, some hundreds of years ago. And they went, okay, we'll pick those books, but we won't pick those books. Really? We're supposed to be prepared. Uh oh. Yeah. That means you're going to have to do some homework, study to show yourself approved unto God. A workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. So, yeah, we're going to have to roll up our sleeves. We're going to have to do our homework. Because how in the world are we prepared to give a reason for the hope that resides within us if we don't? So there's this marvelous new book out that's succinct, it's pithy, it's to the point, and it's one of those pocket books that you need to be reading on a regular basis. It's simply entitled seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. Now, if you're like me, a book like that gets your attention. But then when you realize that the author is academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College all the way in Melbourne, Australia, and then you decide to open the book and read it, then you realize that he's the author of more than a dozen books, including What Christians Ought to Believe and Evangelical Theology. He also runs a popular studies blog called while I can't Even Say the name, I'm going to get Mike bird to tell me how I pronounce that, and he can be followed on Twitter as well. It's early. I mean, really early in the morning. I hope Mike has grabbed himself a cup of coffee because, well, I'm getting ready for supper and he probably hasn't even had breakfast yet. Mike, the warmest of welcomes. Can't believe that we have technology that connects my half of the globe with your half of the globe. Welcome.

Well, thank you very much for having me, Janet. It is a pleasure to be with you and your listeners.

Well, thank you very much for having me, Janet. It is a pleasure to be with you and your listeners.

Thank you so much. All right. First, how do we define the name of the blog?

Thank you so much. All right. First, how do we define the name of the blog?

Well, the blog's name is called Euangelion. So that's where I blog from time to time. Um, otherwise people can find me on, um, Michael f bird Substack. Com excellent. The two places I tend to hang out online.

Well, the blog's name is called Euangelion. So that's where I blog from time to time. Um, otherwise people can find me on, um, Michael f bird Substack. Com excellent. The two places I tend to hang out online.

Good. Okay, I love language. What is your religion?

Good. Okay, I love language. What is your religion?

That's Greek for gospel.

That's Greek for gospel.

Oh, awesome. There we are. We were all improved just by that one word. I thank you for that, Mike. Okay, you write this book in the beginning, in the preface, and it's quite in some respects comforting but also disturbing that you really wrote this book. Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. For Bible believers. Now, there's a presupposition there that one would assume we would have already understood as a Bible believer what the Bible is all about. But you say otherwise. Tell me what evidence you have to that end?

Oh, awesome. There we are. We were all improved just by that one word. I thank you for that, Mike. Okay, you write this book in the beginning, in the preface, and it's quite in some respects comforting but also disturbing that you really wrote this book. Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. For Bible believers. Now, there's a presupposition there that one would assume we would have already understood as a Bible believer what the Bible is all about. But you say otherwise. Tell me what evidence you have to that end?

Well, a number of things, um, Christians can often have their own presuppositions or simply things that they've never considered. You know, for one question, you know, how do you know which books should be in the Bible? I mean, it's one thing to say the Bible is the Word of God, but there is no book of the Bible which tells you what the table of contents should be. So. So this is called the formation of the biblical canon. So that that's sort of, you know, one thing that Christians aren't aware of. And then you've got a few other sort of things. Like how much historical background do I need to know in order to grasp the Bible? I mean, do I have to do like a PhD in Egyptology in order to properly understand the the history of the Hebrews in Egypt? Do I need to know all about, you know, Latin and the Greco-Roman world? So how much historical background do I need? And does it really help me as I read the Bible? And yeah. Another thing is, how do I how do I read the Old Testament? There's a lot of issues in the Old Testament that I, I'm not sure if it applies to us. Like, you know, the conquest narratives, you know, what do they mean? How do we apply them? I mean, how do we read the Old Testament just generally as Christians, you know, if we believe that all things point to Christ, if we believe that he is the epicenter of Scripture, what does that mean when we read the Old Testament without being needlessly cheesy about various things or, you know, without, um, just saying, well, let's just interpret it the way they would if they were living 500 BC with no knowledge of Christ. So, I mean, there's questions like that that come up time and time again that I like to deal with in this book.

Well, a number of things, um, Christians can often have their own presuppositions or simply things that they've never considered. You know, for one question, you know, how do you know which books should be in the Bible? I mean, it's one thing to say the Bible is the Word of God, but there is no book of the Bible which tells you what the table of contents should be. So. So this is called the formation of the biblical canon. So that that's sort of, you know, one thing that Christians aren't aware of. And then you've got a few other sort of things. Like how much historical background do I need to know in order to grasp the Bible? I mean, do I have to do like a PhD in Egyptology in order to properly understand the the history of the Hebrews in Egypt? Do I need to know all about, you know, Latin and the Greco-Roman world? So how much historical background do I need? And does it really help me as I read the Bible? And yeah. Another thing is, how do I how do I read the Old Testament? There's a lot of issues in the Old Testament that I, I'm not sure if it applies to us. Like, you know, the conquest narratives, you know, what do they mean? How do we apply them? I mean, how do we read the Old Testament just generally as Christians, you know, if we believe that all things point to Christ, if we believe that he is the epicenter of Scripture, what does that mean when we read the Old Testament without being needlessly cheesy about various things or, you know, without, um, just saying, well, let's just interpret it the way they would if they were living 500 BC with no knowledge of Christ. So, I mean, there's questions like that that come up time and time again that I like to deal with in this book.

Yeah. And you do it so beautifully. Quick question before we go to our first break. So if I'm one of those people who's put the bumper sticker on my car that says, God said it, I believe it, that's that I'm going to ask the question. I want to give you enough time to answer the other side. So here's the question. You see that bumper sticker on the back of the car and you say, you know, I believe it. I don't I don't care about the historicity. I don't care about the validity. I don't care about the historical substantiation. I don't even know if I understand most of the Old Testament, but I believe Jesus is my Savior. Isn't that good enough? So that's my question. Mike. What do we do when someone says that's good enough? I've recognized Jesus as Messiah. I've confessed my sins. Isn't that good enough? Mike Bird is with us, academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. Sounds like he's in the same room with me, doesn't it? Amazing technology. Great. Important book that should be on your library shelf. Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. We're going to examine some of those things this hour, and you can join with your questions. (877) 548-3675. What do you say to a believer who's losing their faith? Why are we seeing a rise in the nones, those who don't connect with any religion. That's why I've chosen. Does Christianity still make sense? As this month's truth tool read how a chronic doubter learned to answer some of the most difficult questions about Christianity. As for your copy of Does Christianity still make sense when you give a gift of any amount to in the market, call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet parshall.org. Very important conversation this hour. You have to know what you believe and why you believe it. So Mike bird joins us all the way from Melbourne, Australia and what a kind gentleman he is to get up so early and to join us on the other side of the globe. He is academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He is the author of the book we're discussing this hour, seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. It's one of those marvellous ready reference books that will help you better contend. If I can borrow from the book of Jude 87754836758775483675. So Mike, before we get into some of these points, I want to cut away some of the bramble bushes and one of them, and we're talking to people all across the United States might be this idea. Look, I believe it. I don't want to I don't have a master's in theology. I don't have a doctorate in theology. Um, I'm not someone who lectures at a college. I just know that Jesus is Lord, and that's enough for me. And so everything that we're going to talk about, they might say utterly immaterial. I have the most basic of truths down I want to give. I want you to give us a defense on why, yes, praise God that he's Savior in your life. But why do we need to know about the Word of God? Why is this imperative for us as followers?

Yeah. And you do it so beautifully. Quick question before we go to our first break. So if I'm one of those people who's put the bumper sticker on my car that says, God said it, I believe it, that's that I'm going to ask the question. I want to give you enough time to answer the other side. So here's the question. You see that bumper sticker on the back of the car and you say, you know, I believe it. I don't I don't care about the historicity. I don't care about the validity. I don't care about the historical substantiation. I don't even know if I understand most of the Old Testament, but I believe Jesus is my Savior. Isn't that good enough? So that's my question. Mike. What do we do when someone says that's good enough? I've recognized Jesus as Messiah. I've confessed my sins. Isn't that good enough? Mike Bird is with us, academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. Sounds like he's in the same room with me, doesn't it? Amazing technology. Great. Important book that should be on your library shelf. Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. We're going to examine some of those things this hour, and you can join with your questions. (877) 548-3675. What do you say to a believer who's losing their faith? Why are we seeing a rise in the nones, those who don't connect with any religion. That's why I've chosen. Does Christianity still make sense? As this month's truth tool read how a chronic doubter learned to answer some of the most difficult questions about Christianity. As for your copy of Does Christianity still make sense when you give a gift of any amount to in the market, call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet parshall.org. Very important conversation this hour. You have to know what you believe and why you believe it. So Mike bird joins us all the way from Melbourne, Australia and what a kind gentleman he is to get up so early and to join us on the other side of the globe. He is academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He is the author of the book we're discussing this hour, seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. It's one of those marvellous ready reference books that will help you better contend. If I can borrow from the book of Jude 87754836758775483675. So Mike, before we get into some of these points, I want to cut away some of the bramble bushes and one of them, and we're talking to people all across the United States might be this idea. Look, I believe it. I don't want to I don't have a master's in theology. I don't have a doctorate in theology. Um, I'm not someone who lectures at a college. I just know that Jesus is Lord, and that's enough for me. And so everything that we're going to talk about, they might say utterly immaterial. I have the most basic of truths down I want to give. I want you to give us a defense on why, yes, praise God that he's Savior in your life. But why do we need to know about the Word of God? Why is this imperative for us as followers?

I think you need to know more about the Word of God so you can deal with some of the tricky questions it throws up for you. Or you can respond to some of the, um, the fake news that people often say about the Bible. Let me give you two examples. You know what happens if you're, you know, in the lunchroom at Walmart or wherever you work and someone comes up to you and says, you know, I saw you reading a Bible at lunch. I mean, I mean, I thought the Bible was invented by Constantine in the fourth century.

I think you need to know more about the Word of God so you can deal with some of the tricky questions it throws up for you. Or you can respond to some of the, um, the fake news that people often say about the Bible. Let me give you two examples. You know what happens if you're, you know, in the lunchroom at Walmart or wherever you work and someone comes up to you and says, you know, I saw you reading a Bible at lunch. I mean, I mean, I thought the Bible was invented by Constantine in the fourth century.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You know, you know that they've been reading a bit of Da Vinci Code or something, or who knows what kind of crazy stuff you can find on YouTube. Now, what would you say to that? I mean, you know, how do you know for certain the Bible wasn't invented by Constantine in the fourth century, some sort of religious conspiracy theory to control the Roman Empire. So that's that's one. That's one thing. Okay. That means what you need to know about how the Bible came to be. Okay. Let me give you a second example. Now imagine, you know, you're a parent and you've got a couple of teenagers and one of your teenage children comes home and says, you know, mom or dad, you know, um, why is it there's stuff in the Old Testament? Now, a lot of the laws about like, don't eat pork, don't eat shellfish. You know, we don't obey those laws. But the laws about, you know, um, you know, homosexuality and that being prohibited. How come how can we we have that one. It's like we're picking and choosing just arbitrarily which commands in the Bible we keep and which ones we reject. I mean, you know, is it is it like a, like a pick and choose kind of thing we can do? Now, if you're a parent, I mean, what do you say to that? You know, so that's the type of thing. Well, so that's the sort of things you can encounter. And unless you know a little bit actually about the Bible. You could find yourself being lost for words or not knowing how to respond either to maybe an apologetic question in the lunchroom, or one of the real concerns about the Bible that one of your teenage kids may have.

You know, you know that they've been reading a bit of Da Vinci Code or something, or who knows what kind of crazy stuff you can find on YouTube. Now, what would you say to that? I mean, you know, how do you know for certain the Bible wasn't invented by Constantine in the fourth century, some sort of religious conspiracy theory to control the Roman Empire. So that's that's one. That's one thing. Okay. That means what you need to know about how the Bible came to be. Okay. Let me give you a second example. Now imagine, you know, you're a parent and you've got a couple of teenagers and one of your teenage children comes home and says, you know, mom or dad, you know, um, why is it there's stuff in the Old Testament? Now, a lot of the laws about like, don't eat pork, don't eat shellfish. You know, we don't obey those laws. But the laws about, you know, um, you know, homosexuality and that being prohibited. How come how can we we have that one. It's like we're picking and choosing just arbitrarily which commands in the Bible we keep and which ones we reject. I mean, you know, is it is it like a, like a pick and choose kind of thing we can do? Now, if you're a parent, I mean, what do you say to that? You know, so that's the type of thing. Well, so that's the sort of things you can encounter. And unless you know a little bit actually about the Bible. You could find yourself being lost for words or not knowing how to respond either to maybe an apologetic question in the lunchroom, or one of the real concerns about the Bible that one of your teenage kids may have.

Love love love, love the response. And let me add one more layer to that if I can, particularly in these latter days. You know the book of Colossians, and I love this verse. Maybe it's because I'm here in Washington, DC, but I love that verse that says that this is war, that we can be taken captive through vain and hollow philosophy. So if you're watching some cable television network in the United States and they're telling you how the Bible came to be, or you're reading The Da Vinci Code and you're reading what Dan Brown has to say about the origination of the Scripture. You can be taken captive. So this is a matter of guarding your heart as well as knowing what you believe. So let me go back to one of the key questions. And you touched on it in your opening remarks, and I'm so appreciative of that. A lot of people are thinking, wait a minute. So, um, was somebody sitting there taking notes at creation. So how do we get the Pentateuch? And then how did we find the Psalms? And then how are those books included in the Old Testament? And then there's that whole business about what was and wasn't included in the New Testament. So if I can let me break this up, Ottenuti go to the Old Testament first. How did we get the books of the Old Testament?

Love love love, love the response. And let me add one more layer to that if I can, particularly in these latter days. You know the book of Colossians, and I love this verse. Maybe it's because I'm here in Washington, DC, but I love that verse that says that this is war, that we can be taken captive through vain and hollow philosophy. So if you're watching some cable television network in the United States and they're telling you how the Bible came to be, or you're reading The Da Vinci Code and you're reading what Dan Brown has to say about the origination of the Scripture. You can be taken captive. So this is a matter of guarding your heart as well as knowing what you believe. So let me go back to one of the key questions. And you touched on it in your opening remarks, and I'm so appreciative of that. A lot of people are thinking, wait a minute. So, um, was somebody sitting there taking notes at creation. So how do we get the Pentateuch? And then how did we find the Psalms? And then how are those books included in the Old Testament? And then there's that whole business about what was and wasn't included in the New Testament. So if I can let me break this up, Ottenuti go to the Old Testament first. How did we get the books of the Old Testament?

Okay, well, the Old Testament has got a number of different parts. You've got, first of all, which is the the law of Moses, the Torah. Okay. Then you have the prophets, and then you have what's called the writings. That's generally how it breaks down, or at least how it breaks down for, for, uh, the Jewish people, uh, now where the Torah came from. Now, that's a disputed question. Um, there's all sorts of theories about all different sort of sources that were put together. What I think you have, you have a number of oral traditions. Okay. That then became written and crystallized. They seem to be centered around Moses as either the one who passed them down or transmitted them, but they're also transmitted in such a way that they clearly have a post Moses perspective, like they'll talk about certain areas that have a name, but that name was only known once Israel had come into the Promised Land. And you have this, you know, this sort of body of oral and then eventually written traditions, uh, about the law, about God, creation, Sinai, you know, and Moses's role, that type of thing, which then kind of gets put together, probably just before or just after the Israelites or the Judeans go into exile. And that, that that becomes the, the main, if you like, package of Israel's faith, you know, the law of Moses. Then you have a number of prophets whose work is also collected and brought together, and then various writings. You've got the Psalms that includes, you know, things written by David and and things written by other people as well that are also brought together. And by the time you get to the first century, uh, you know, the time of Jesus and the apostles, um, even the Jews are beginning to kind of crystallize their own body of sacred literature. And you can see this in certain places. Like in the author Josephus, he refers to a number of books of the Jews, and then in the later rabbis, that also becomes something they're concerned with. What are the holy books of the Jewish people? Uh, so that's that's a very quick nutshell. The canonization of the Old Testament, which, you know, Christians as people who believe they they belong to the sacred heritage of Israel. They've largely inherited the Old Testament for themselves, although for the early church, they accepted mostly the Greek translation of the Old Testament. So the Hebrew Bible as it was put in Greek, and that became their scriptures, that was their Bible. That's what they preached and taught from when they said, Jesus, um, rose from the dead according to scriptures. That is the type of book they're talking about. They very much affirmed the Jewish scriptures and believed it was authoritative, normative, and most importantly of all, they believed, rightly understood. It also pointed to Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Okay, well, the Old Testament has got a number of different parts. You've got, first of all, which is the the law of Moses, the Torah. Okay. Then you have the prophets, and then you have what's called the writings. That's generally how it breaks down, or at least how it breaks down for, for, uh, the Jewish people, uh, now where the Torah came from. Now, that's a disputed question. Um, there's all sorts of theories about all different sort of sources that were put together. What I think you have, you have a number of oral traditions. Okay. That then became written and crystallized. They seem to be centered around Moses as either the one who passed them down or transmitted them, but they're also transmitted in such a way that they clearly have a post Moses perspective, like they'll talk about certain areas that have a name, but that name was only known once Israel had come into the Promised Land. And you have this, you know, this sort of body of oral and then eventually written traditions, uh, about the law, about God, creation, Sinai, you know, and Moses's role, that type of thing, which then kind of gets put together, probably just before or just after the Israelites or the Judeans go into exile. And that, that that becomes the, the main, if you like, package of Israel's faith, you know, the law of Moses. Then you have a number of prophets whose work is also collected and brought together, and then various writings. You've got the Psalms that includes, you know, things written by David and and things written by other people as well that are also brought together. And by the time you get to the first century, uh, you know, the time of Jesus and the apostles, um, even the Jews are beginning to kind of crystallize their own body of sacred literature. And you can see this in certain places. Like in the author Josephus, he refers to a number of books of the Jews, and then in the later rabbis, that also becomes something they're concerned with. What are the holy books of the Jewish people? Uh, so that's that's a very quick nutshell. The canonization of the Old Testament, which, you know, Christians as people who believe they they belong to the sacred heritage of Israel. They've largely inherited the Old Testament for themselves, although for the early church, they accepted mostly the Greek translation of the Old Testament. So the Hebrew Bible as it was put in Greek, and that became their scriptures, that was their Bible. That's what they preached and taught from when they said, Jesus, um, rose from the dead according to scriptures. That is the type of book they're talking about. They very much affirmed the Jewish scriptures and believed it was authoritative, normative, and most importantly of all, they believed, rightly understood. It also pointed to Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Wow. And that's the Old Testament we're talking about, too. Don't miss that. (877) 548-3675. If you have general questions about how we got our Bible, Mike Burt has written a wonderfully important book for our times and an important book to be in your ready reference shelf. It says seven things I wish Christians knew about the Bible. Back after this. Seven things I wish Christians knew about the Bible. That's the brand new book by Mike bird. Mike happens to be academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He's the author of more than a dozen books. And by the way, I have a link to his Twitter feed so you can follow him as well. Just go to in the market with Janet parshall.org. Click on that red box that says Program Details and audio takes you right to the information page. There's a little longer bio for Michael, the link to his Twitter feed, and on the right hand side, the book that we're talking about, that, if I may be so bold, should be right there. As part of your legacy library. You should know it, understand it, apply it so that you can contend for the faith. (877) 548-3675. Mike just gave us a beautiful overview of how the books of the Old Testament were put together. So, Becky, in Florida, this would be a really good place for you to ask your question. Please go ahead.

Wow. And that's the Old Testament we're talking about, too. Don't miss that. (877) 548-3675. If you have general questions about how we got our Bible, Mike Burt has written a wonderfully important book for our times and an important book to be in your ready reference shelf. It says seven things I wish Christians knew about the Bible. Back after this. Seven things I wish Christians knew about the Bible. That's the brand new book by Mike bird. Mike happens to be academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He's the author of more than a dozen books. And by the way, I have a link to his Twitter feed so you can follow him as well. Just go to in the market with Janet parshall.org. Click on that red box that says Program Details and audio takes you right to the information page. There's a little longer bio for Michael, the link to his Twitter feed, and on the right hand side, the book that we're talking about, that, if I may be so bold, should be right there. As part of your legacy library. You should know it, understand it, apply it so that you can contend for the faith. (877) 548-3675. Mike just gave us a beautiful overview of how the books of the Old Testament were put together. So, Becky, in Florida, this would be a really good place for you to ask your question. Please go ahead.

Thank you for taking my call. I believe in the Catholic Bible. There are the Maccabees and the Book of Wisdom. But in the Protestant Bible that I read, it's not in there. So how can I say, isn't it man who decided to put Maccabees in there and not, not put Maccabees in there?

Thank you for taking my call. I believe in the Catholic Bible. There are the Maccabees and the Book of Wisdom. But in the Protestant Bible that I read, it's not in there. So how can I say, isn't it man who decided to put Maccabees in there and not, not put Maccabees in there?

Ah, that's a good question, Becky. You're referring to, uh, a body of literature called the Apocrypha. Now, that is a number of writings that can be found in the Greek Bible, but not in the Hebrew Bible. Now, you remember when I said that the the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, was translated into Greek around the same time? A number of other writings were also, um, either originally found in Greek or translated into Greek, and that includes the Maccabees. Um, The Wisdom of Solomon, the Book of Judith, and that type of thing. Now those are writings which are about Israel, about the Jewish people, but they're not found in the Hebrew Bible. They're not recognized as authoritative by Jewish communities. But they did come to have an important role in some Jewish communities. And thus, uh, there's a knock on effect in Christian communities. But by the fourth century, Christians began to differentiate those books of their own biblical canon that overlapped with the Jews and those that didn't, and the ones that didn't became to be known as the deuterocanonicals or like a second canonical status. Or they could be called the Apocrypha. Now, Protestants maintained reading the Apocrypha right up until about the 1880s. That's when the American Bible Society stopped printing the Apocrypha in the King James Bible. Up around that time, most Protestant denominations have said the Apocrypha is useful for reading, for knowledge about the Jewish people in between the old and the New Testaments, providing good background about the time of Jesus. It's even got some, you know, wise things in it. But it's not to be the basis for our primary doctrines of God and about Jesus. So that's referring to the Apocrypha, something that you'll find definitely in Catholic and Greek Orthodox Bibles. But Protestants have been a little bit hesitant about in the last 150 years.

Ah, that's a good question, Becky. You're referring to, uh, a body of literature called the Apocrypha. Now, that is a number of writings that can be found in the Greek Bible, but not in the Hebrew Bible. Now, you remember when I said that the the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, was translated into Greek around the same time? A number of other writings were also, um, either originally found in Greek or translated into Greek, and that includes the Maccabees. Um, The Wisdom of Solomon, the Book of Judith, and that type of thing. Now those are writings which are about Israel, about the Jewish people, but they're not found in the Hebrew Bible. They're not recognized as authoritative by Jewish communities. But they did come to have an important role in some Jewish communities. And thus, uh, there's a knock on effect in Christian communities. But by the fourth century, Christians began to differentiate those books of their own biblical canon that overlapped with the Jews and those that didn't, and the ones that didn't became to be known as the deuterocanonicals or like a second canonical status. Or they could be called the Apocrypha. Now, Protestants maintained reading the Apocrypha right up until about the 1880s. That's when the American Bible Society stopped printing the Apocrypha in the King James Bible. Up around that time, most Protestant denominations have said the Apocrypha is useful for reading, for knowledge about the Jewish people in between the old and the New Testaments, providing good background about the time of Jesus. It's even got some, you know, wise things in it. But it's not to be the basis for our primary doctrines of God and about Jesus. So that's referring to the Apocrypha, something that you'll find definitely in Catholic and Greek Orthodox Bibles. But Protestants have been a little bit hesitant about in the last 150 years.

Mhm. Becky, thank you so much for the question. Let me build on this if I can, Mike, because I think this takes us down another important road. So you talk about the benefits for learning history, etc., but this raises the specter of the word inspiration. We say that the Bible is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through men. What does that mean?

Mhm. Becky, thank you so much for the question. Let me build on this if I can, Mike, because I think this takes us down another important road. So you talk about the benefits for learning history, etc., but this raises the specter of the word inspiration. We say that the Bible is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through men. What does that mean?

Yeah, that's a good question. And people have some different ideas about what that means. For some people, they think of inspiration in a kind of artistic way, as if, you know, Matthew was sitting beside the Sea of Galilee and he thinks, yeah, Jesus would want us to love our enemies because Jesus was a nice guy. So I'm going to write down love your enemies. That's something Jesus would do. So you've got that kind of definition of inspiration, and then you've got another definition that's a little bit more, shall we say, ecstatic. That's where Matthew goes into his study. He gets out his parchment and his quill, and then all of a sudden, his kind of eyes roll back in his head and he goes into some sort of strange trance, and he starts writing, and then he kind of wakes up and he's got the the gospel according to Matthew, now written in front of him. Okay. So you can have some very different ideas about what inspiration means. This is what I think inspiration means. God directs the minds, the thoughts of authors to use their personality, to use their experience to compose a text that conveys his message to the people of God. So it's it's not it's not like divine dictation, but it's not merely, you know, someone looks at a rose and thinks, oh yeah, God is love. I'll write something like that. It's God, God's spirit, activating the the mind, the personality of authors to convey a written message that will meet the people of the day and it'll meet them where they're at. But it will also be enduring for the ages to come.

Yeah, that's a good question. And people have some different ideas about what that means. For some people, they think of inspiration in a kind of artistic way, as if, you know, Matthew was sitting beside the Sea of Galilee and he thinks, yeah, Jesus would want us to love our enemies because Jesus was a nice guy. So I'm going to write down love your enemies. That's something Jesus would do. So you've got that kind of definition of inspiration, and then you've got another definition that's a little bit more, shall we say, ecstatic. That's where Matthew goes into his study. He gets out his parchment and his quill, and then all of a sudden, his kind of eyes roll back in his head and he goes into some sort of strange trance, and he starts writing, and then he kind of wakes up and he's got the the gospel according to Matthew, now written in front of him. Okay. So you can have some very different ideas about what inspiration means. This is what I think inspiration means. God directs the minds, the thoughts of authors to use their personality, to use their experience to compose a text that conveys his message to the people of God. So it's it's not it's not like divine dictation, but it's not merely, you know, someone looks at a rose and thinks, oh yeah, God is love. I'll write something like that. It's God, God's spirit, activating the the mind, the personality of authors to convey a written message that will meet the people of the day and it'll meet them where they're at. But it will also be enduring for the ages to come.

I love that, so let me do a follow up question. So if God uses the personality and the minds of the author, does that not open a Pandora's box of subjectivity as opposed to absolute truth? How do we respond?

I love that, so let me do a follow up question. So if God uses the personality and the minds of the author, does that not open a Pandora's box of subjectivity as opposed to absolute truth? How do we respond?

Oh well, I mean, in one sense there is a certain degree of subjectivity insofar as the subjects, you know, like the authors, whether that's, um, Hosea or whether that's Luke. They are personally involved. They're not merely a kind of, um, how would you call it? They're not just merely a server that God download information into. God uses their experience. He uses their knowledge, their understanding of the world, their understanding of history. You know, and this is what we could call the scandal of particularity. You know, God meets people where they are at, and he tells them the truth. He tells them about himself, his plan, his purposes in a way that makes sense where they are at at that time in ancient history, whether that's the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, and it's relevant for them. So before the Bible, although the Bible is for us, it was not written to us. And we have to recognize that otherwise we can end up making some serious category mistakes.

Oh well, I mean, in one sense there is a certain degree of subjectivity insofar as the subjects, you know, like the authors, whether that's, um, Hosea or whether that's Luke. They are personally involved. They're not merely a kind of, um, how would you call it? They're not just merely a server that God download information into. God uses their experience. He uses their knowledge, their understanding of the world, their understanding of history. You know, and this is what we could call the scandal of particularity. You know, God meets people where they are at, and he tells them the truth. He tells them about himself, his plan, his purposes in a way that makes sense where they are at at that time in ancient history, whether that's the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, and it's relevant for them. So before the Bible, although the Bible is for us, it was not written to us. And we have to recognize that otherwise we can end up making some serious category mistakes.

Let me pick up on that very important point. Michael Burt is with us. His book is a must read. Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. (877) 548-3675. Back after this.

Let me pick up on that very important point. Michael Burt is with us. His book is a must read. Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. (877) 548-3675. Back after this.

Break.

Break.

Friends, this is Janet Parshall, and I want to take a moment to remind you that today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines aren't open. But I sure do appreciate your spending the hour with us. And thanks so much and enjoy the rest of the program. There are dozens of talk shows that address politics, culture and technology, but in the market is committed to bringing biblical truths to every facet of life. When you financially support in the market as a partial partner, you're helping people to better understand how their faith intersects with their daily lives. Become a partial partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared just for you. Call 877 Janet 58, or go online to in the market with Janet parshall.org. We are having such a fruitful and important conversation with Michael Burt, who joins me all the way from Melbourne, Australia. And I want to underscore that because it was at some sacrifice, I would say, to get up before the sun and to join us from the bottom half of the globe. At least that's my perspective here in Washington, D.C.. So while most of us here in the United States are moving toward the dinner hour, his day is just about to begin. But he started it by spending time with us. And this is a fruitful hours conversation. Michael, by the way, is academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He's written more than a dozen books. You can follow him on Twitter. And I've got that on my website so that you can just click on and the wisdom you're hearing this hour, you can follow on a daily basis. But the reason Mike is with us today is because his newest book is called Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. And I will restate again at the halfway point of this conversation that the statistics are not good. As a matter of fact, we are biblically illiterate. We don't know how to contend for the faith. We would rather spend time reading our email than reading the Word of God. We cannot give a reason for the hope that resides within us, and most of us overwhelmingly, do not even share our faith once we come to faith in Jesus Christ. So knowing what you believe and why you believe it is paramount, particularly in these latter days. So this marvelous book is written for you and me, just average followers of Jesus Christ, and he takes seven key points and breaks them down so we can better understand how these 66 inspired, inerrant, transcendent, immutable love letters were given to us and why we can rely on them completely from Genesis to Revelation. So let me go back to something, Mike, you said before. It's a word I want to make sure our friends picked up on. And it's one of the seven things you say that you wish Christians knew. You use the word normative. You say that Scripture is normative, but it's not negotiable. What do you mean by that?

Friends, this is Janet Parshall, and I want to take a moment to remind you that today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines aren't open. But I sure do appreciate your spending the hour with us. And thanks so much and enjoy the rest of the program. There are dozens of talk shows that address politics, culture and technology, but in the market is committed to bringing biblical truths to every facet of life. When you financially support in the market as a partial partner, you're helping people to better understand how their faith intersects with their daily lives. Become a partial partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared just for you. Call 877 Janet 58, or go online to in the market with Janet parshall.org. We are having such a fruitful and important conversation with Michael Burt, who joins me all the way from Melbourne, Australia. And I want to underscore that because it was at some sacrifice, I would say, to get up before the sun and to join us from the bottom half of the globe. At least that's my perspective here in Washington, D.C.. So while most of us here in the United States are moving toward the dinner hour, his day is just about to begin. But he started it by spending time with us. And this is a fruitful hours conversation. Michael, by the way, is academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He's written more than a dozen books. You can follow him on Twitter. And I've got that on my website so that you can just click on and the wisdom you're hearing this hour, you can follow on a daily basis. But the reason Mike is with us today is because his newest book is called Seven things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible. And I will restate again at the halfway point of this conversation that the statistics are not good. As a matter of fact, we are biblically illiterate. We don't know how to contend for the faith. We would rather spend time reading our email than reading the Word of God. We cannot give a reason for the hope that resides within us, and most of us overwhelmingly, do not even share our faith once we come to faith in Jesus Christ. So knowing what you believe and why you believe it is paramount, particularly in these latter days. So this marvelous book is written for you and me, just average followers of Jesus Christ, and he takes seven key points and breaks them down so we can better understand how these 66 inspired, inerrant, transcendent, immutable love letters were given to us and why we can rely on them completely from Genesis to Revelation. So let me go back to something, Mike, you said before. It's a word I want to make sure our friends picked up on. And it's one of the seven things you say that you wish Christians knew. You use the word normative. You say that Scripture is normative, but it's not negotiable. What do you mean by that?

Okay. In other words, Scripture Scripture is to be obeyed and followed. We're not there to pick and choose the parts that we believe in. Let me give you a really good example of this. This past week, John, there was a a minister of religion who put on Twitter saying, look, feel free to, to pick and choose what you like in Paul. If you if, if you don't believe everything that Paul says, that's perfectly okay. You're still a Christian now. And the problem that there's so many problems with that statement or that kind of, uh, approach, um, you know, because if it comes down to on what basis are you picking and choosing the the parts of the Bible you want to believe? Now, let me give two historical examples which are kind of crazy. In the second century, there was a group of Jewish Christians, and they're known to us as the Ebionites. And they pretty much, you know, they believed in Jesus to to a certain degree. They believed he was a man, um, in whom the an angel had come into. And they accepted the Gospel of Matthew, but they rejected the teachings of the apostle Paul because they thought that he was a, um, uh, he was an apostate from from Judaism. Okay. So the Ebionites rejected Paul. But here's another funny fact. Um, the in the 20th century, the Nazis also rejected the apostle Paul. They didn't like Paul because he had taken the Jewish view of the image of God, that all human beings are equal before God. And he'd found a way to universalize it and apply it to the Romans and the Greeks and the ancient world, and that that was the and that created an ethical system that allowed people to defend the weak and to look after them. So here's the irony. In the second century, you had one group of people rejecting Paul for not being Jewish enough. And then in the 20th century, you've got these European fascists rejecting Paul for being too Jewish. And when people reject Paul, it's always because they've got some other agenda, some other thing that is authoritative for them. And if you if you don't recognise that Paul as well as Isaiah or Hosea or Luke are authoritative, your authority is going to be something else. It's going to be your own culture, your own politics, or your own prejudice.

Okay. In other words, Scripture Scripture is to be obeyed and followed. We're not there to pick and choose the parts that we believe in. Let me give you a really good example of this. This past week, John, there was a a minister of religion who put on Twitter saying, look, feel free to, to pick and choose what you like in Paul. If you if, if you don't believe everything that Paul says, that's perfectly okay. You're still a Christian now. And the problem that there's so many problems with that statement or that kind of, uh, approach, um, you know, because if it comes down to on what basis are you picking and choosing the the parts of the Bible you want to believe? Now, let me give two historical examples which are kind of crazy. In the second century, there was a group of Jewish Christians, and they're known to us as the Ebionites. And they pretty much, you know, they believed in Jesus to to a certain degree. They believed he was a man, um, in whom the an angel had come into. And they accepted the Gospel of Matthew, but they rejected the teachings of the apostle Paul because they thought that he was a, um, uh, he was an apostate from from Judaism. Okay. So the Ebionites rejected Paul. But here's another funny fact. Um, the in the 20th century, the Nazis also rejected the apostle Paul. They didn't like Paul because he had taken the Jewish view of the image of God, that all human beings are equal before God. And he'd found a way to universalize it and apply it to the Romans and the Greeks and the ancient world, and that that was the and that created an ethical system that allowed people to defend the weak and to look after them. So here's the irony. In the second century, you had one group of people rejecting Paul for not being Jewish enough. And then in the 20th century, you've got these European fascists rejecting Paul for being too Jewish. And when people reject Paul, it's always because they've got some other agenda, some other thing that is authoritative for them. And if you if you don't recognise that Paul as well as Isaiah or Hosea or Luke are authoritative, your authority is going to be something else. It's going to be your own culture, your own politics, or your own prejudice.

Absolutely important. That is a red flag. So let me go back to something you said earlier. Because we don't we cannot we are not given permission to have a pick and choose approach as though we can take the scriptures like a buffet dinner a la carte. I'll have some of this. I'll reject that. And yet you alluded earlier to some of the Levitical law. I'm. You're in Australia. I would imagine, just like us on the Mid-Atlantic here in the United States. There's great seafood and crustaceans are a part of that. And yet it's prohibited in Levitical law. How do we learn to discern what was a law for that time? But it is not a universal law to be applied to all men in all times and all places.

Absolutely important. That is a red flag. So let me go back to something you said earlier. Because we don't we cannot we are not given permission to have a pick and choose approach as though we can take the scriptures like a buffet dinner a la carte. I'll have some of this. I'll reject that. And yet you alluded earlier to some of the Levitical law. I'm. You're in Australia. I would imagine, just like us on the Mid-Atlantic here in the United States. There's great seafood and crustaceans are a part of that. And yet it's prohibited in Levitical law. How do we learn to discern what was a law for that time? But it is not a universal law to be applied to all men in all times and all places.

Yeah, that's a very good question. That's one that comes up a lot with my students or when I speak in churches, when I say this about the Law of Moses was kind of given as a survival program for Israel in the land of Canaan. Okay. The purpose of the law was to protract Israel's capacity to worship God, to protect them from becoming like the tribes around them. But it was more like an interim survival kit. It was not meant as the definitive revelation of how God's people were intended to live. Okay, so there are some bits of the Old Testament that carry on, but there are some bits that were very much for that context of ancient Canaan in the Near East. And we know that because Paul can say things like we're under grace, not under law. The basis of Christian ethics is not the complete law of Moses. Rather, it is the example of Jesus, the teaching of Jesus, and life in the spirit. Okay. The fruit of the spirit. That is the basis of ethics. Now, the law has value in a prophetic sense of pointing to Christ. And you could argue it's not the constitution of our ethics, but it's a type of wisdom for Christian living. And certain parts of the law do carry on like the love command from Leviticus 1918. You know, love your neighbor as yourself. And Jesus and Paul can affirm certain parts of the law. But the law in the as a totality is not the basis of our ethics, even though certain parts of it are affirmed in the new.

Yeah, that's a very good question. That's one that comes up a lot with my students or when I speak in churches, when I say this about the Law of Moses was kind of given as a survival program for Israel in the land of Canaan. Okay. The purpose of the law was to protract Israel's capacity to worship God, to protect them from becoming like the tribes around them. But it was more like an interim survival kit. It was not meant as the definitive revelation of how God's people were intended to live. Okay, so there are some bits of the Old Testament that carry on, but there are some bits that were very much for that context of ancient Canaan in the Near East. And we know that because Paul can say things like we're under grace, not under law. The basis of Christian ethics is not the complete law of Moses. Rather, it is the example of Jesus, the teaching of Jesus, and life in the spirit. Okay. The fruit of the spirit. That is the basis of ethics. Now, the law has value in a prophetic sense of pointing to Christ. And you could argue it's not the constitution of our ethics, but it's a type of wisdom for Christian living. And certain parts of the law do carry on like the love command from Leviticus 1918. You know, love your neighbor as yourself. And Jesus and Paul can affirm certain parts of the law. But the law in the as a totality is not the basis of our ethics, even though certain parts of it are affirmed in the new.

Wow. Excellent answer. Thank you for that. (877) 548-3675. I won't be selfish. I want to put your calls in here as well. Matthew, you join us from Texas. I thank you and your question.

Wow. Excellent answer. Thank you for that. (877) 548-3675. I won't be selfish. I want to put your calls in here as well. Matthew, you join us from Texas. I thank you and your question.

Yeah. Thanks. And thank you, Michael. It's good to be to follow a commonwealth here. My question was recently there's been the patterns of evidence movies in one particularly focused on the authorship of the Pentateuch by Moses. And I was just wondering if there had been any kind of recent developments in archaeology or any other fields that would support the idea that Moses was the actual author? Taking, as you said, the oral traditions from those, uh, particularly from Genesis, and compiling that into a written body for the Israelites.

Yeah. Thanks. And thank you, Michael. It's good to be to follow a commonwealth here. My question was recently there's been the patterns of evidence movies in one particularly focused on the authorship of the Pentateuch by Moses. And I was just wondering if there had been any kind of recent developments in archaeology or any other fields that would support the idea that Moses was the actual author? Taking, as you said, the oral traditions from those, uh, particularly from Genesis, and compiling that into a written body for the Israelites.

Yeah, I struggled to hear that a little bit, but thanks for your question, Matthew. I think the question pertains to the origins of the Pentateuch, the Torah, or the law of Moses, as it's varyingly called. Now, scholars of religion have been debating this for about like, you know, 200 years, um, all the way through on the extreme side that Moses didn't actually exist. And there's just a body of disparate traditions from priestly sources, a deuteronomist that were kind of brought together as a hodgepodge. Then you get another view that basically says, Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch, even the bit about how he died and what happened afterwards. Okay, so that's kind of like two extreme positions. Um, I'm of the mind, uh, as I was alluding to before, that, you have a body of traditions associated with Moses, I think probably were generated by Moses and were passed on orally or in some form, and then were kind of brought together and edited some time around the Judean exile in the sixth century. Um, and then they were probably curated or looked after and passed on into the form that you get in the first century. Now that that is disputed. There is no consensus on this because we don't know for certain, but there's no recent big discoveries in archaeology or ancient literary studies that give us a sort of definitive answer to that question.

Yeah, I struggled to hear that a little bit, but thanks for your question, Matthew. I think the question pertains to the origins of the Pentateuch, the Torah, or the law of Moses, as it's varyingly called. Now, scholars of religion have been debating this for about like, you know, 200 years, um, all the way through on the extreme side that Moses didn't actually exist. And there's just a body of disparate traditions from priestly sources, a deuteronomist that were kind of brought together as a hodgepodge. Then you get another view that basically says, Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch, even the bit about how he died and what happened afterwards. Okay, so that's kind of like two extreme positions. Um, I'm of the mind, uh, as I was alluding to before, that, you have a body of traditions associated with Moses, I think probably were generated by Moses and were passed on orally or in some form, and then were kind of brought together and edited some time around the Judean exile in the sixth century. Um, and then they were probably curated or looked after and passed on into the form that you get in the first century. Now that that is disputed. There is no consensus on this because we don't know for certain, but there's no recent big discoveries in archaeology or ancient literary studies that give us a sort of definitive answer to that question.

Can I pick up on something? Because I love we could spend hours just talking about the archaeological substantiation. Let me go to the Old Testament for a minute. One of the places I love to visit when I frequent Israel is the museum of the scrolls. So the book of Isaiah or Isaiah, as you say, and I prefer your pronunciation is there, and you can read almost jot and tittle what's in my Bible to this day. So if you'd be so kind. Talk a little bit about, um, why the scrolls? The Dead Sea Scrolls are so significant and the the continuation of the text without major errors. That in and of itself, I think is scientifically fascinating.

Can I pick up on something? Because I love we could spend hours just talking about the archaeological substantiation. Let me go to the Old Testament for a minute. One of the places I love to visit when I frequent Israel is the museum of the scrolls. So the book of Isaiah or Isaiah, as you say, and I prefer your pronunciation is there, and you can read almost jot and tittle what's in my Bible to this day. So if you'd be so kind. Talk a little bit about, um, why the scrolls? The Dead Sea Scrolls are so significant and the the continuation of the text without major errors. That in and of itself, I think is scientifically fascinating.

Oh, it is, it's very much the the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was a major find, a major boon for people who want to know about the history of the Bible, particularly the the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible. People who are We're interested in Jewish sectarian movements in the first century, and also because there are so many insights that kind of help us understand aspects of early Christianity as well. I'll never forget someone, um, when I told them I was a minister of religion, they kind of looked at me and said, I thought the Dead Sea Scrolls kind of, you know, disproved all that stuff. I said, well, no, actually quite the opposite, because we have copies of the Bible that are now some 2000 years old, and we can compare it with the translations we have now. Now, this can get a little bit complicated depending on what book you're looking at, but it indicates when it comes to the book of Isaiah, at least as you alluded to, we can see very strong continuity between the text that was being used by the Qumran sectarians, down by the Dead Sea and the book of Isaiah that we have it now. But the, the sectarians who they kind of like, left mainstream Judaism because they thought it was too corrupt. The wrong people were running the temple. They were running it in the wrong way, and they saw themselves as a kind of an elite group, a pure group who were trying to remain holy in an age of evil, but being dominated by the Romans and and compromised Judaism. And they wrote things about the kingdom of God. They wrote things about the Messiah, about the righteousness that overlap a little bit with what Christians say. And it's very interesting to compare what the Qumran sectarians said about the Kingdom of God and compare it with the things that we get from Jesus, or with Paul, or from the writer to the Hebrews. So reading the Dead Sea Scrolls is something that can really help you understand the context and history of the ancient world in which early Christianity took root in Judea.

Oh, it is, it's very much the the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was a major find, a major boon for people who want to know about the history of the Bible, particularly the the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible. People who are We're interested in Jewish sectarian movements in the first century, and also because there are so many insights that kind of help us understand aspects of early Christianity as well. I'll never forget someone, um, when I told them I was a minister of religion, they kind of looked at me and said, I thought the Dead Sea Scrolls kind of, you know, disproved all that stuff. I said, well, no, actually quite the opposite, because we have copies of the Bible that are now some 2000 years old, and we can compare it with the translations we have now. Now, this can get a little bit complicated depending on what book you're looking at, but it indicates when it comes to the book of Isaiah, at least as you alluded to, we can see very strong continuity between the text that was being used by the Qumran sectarians, down by the Dead Sea and the book of Isaiah that we have it now. But the, the sectarians who they kind of like, left mainstream Judaism because they thought it was too corrupt. The wrong people were running the temple. They were running it in the wrong way, and they saw themselves as a kind of an elite group, a pure group who were trying to remain holy in an age of evil, but being dominated by the Romans and and compromised Judaism. And they wrote things about the kingdom of God. They wrote things about the Messiah, about the righteousness that overlap a little bit with what Christians say. And it's very interesting to compare what the Qumran sectarians said about the Kingdom of God and compare it with the things that we get from Jesus, or with Paul, or from the writer to the Hebrews. So reading the Dead Sea Scrolls is something that can really help you understand the context and history of the ancient world in which early Christianity took root in Judea.

Wow. Wow. And you're just getting such a thimbleful of information, friends. But this should embolden you to understand that we are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ or his inerrant word. More with Mike bird right after this. (877) 548-3675. That's our number here on in the market with Janet Parshall Michael Burt is joining us. He's academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. Yep. You heard me right. Sounds like we're in the same room together. I so appreciate this technology in the 21st century, but he's here as a prolific author as well. His latest book is called Seven Things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible, and that's exactly what he does. He enumerates seven key points on why the Bible can be trusted the historicity, how we got the Bible, the purpose of the scriptures. This is a must in any person's resource library because should the Lord tarry, we are going to be asked more and more. Why can we trust this book? Why do we stake what we believe on the contents of this book? And Michael does an excellent job of breaking it down. Karen, you've been so patient in Illinois. Let me put your question in here, please. Thank you. Go ahead and ask it.

Wow. Wow. And you're just getting such a thimbleful of information, friends. But this should embolden you to understand that we are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ or his inerrant word. More with Mike bird right after this. (877) 548-3675. That's our number here on in the market with Janet Parshall Michael Burt is joining us. He's academic dean and lecturer in theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. Yep. You heard me right. Sounds like we're in the same room together. I so appreciate this technology in the 21st century, but he's here as a prolific author as well. His latest book is called Seven Things I Wish Christians Knew About the Bible, and that's exactly what he does. He enumerates seven key points on why the Bible can be trusted the historicity, how we got the Bible, the purpose of the scriptures. This is a must in any person's resource library because should the Lord tarry, we are going to be asked more and more. Why can we trust this book? Why do we stake what we believe on the contents of this book? And Michael does an excellent job of breaking it down. Karen, you've been so patient in Illinois. Let me put your question in here, please. Thank you. Go ahead and ask it.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the call. Um, my question is regarding eternity. Um, I love studying God's Word. I love teaching God's Word. And we had a discussion, um, recently about, are we going to have the Bible in heaven? And I assume that we are, because the word says the grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever. And somebody said that, um, in that group said, well, we're going to know everything. We won't need the Bible, and I'm sure we won't know everything when we get to heaven. But I'm wondering what role the Bible will play in eternity.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the call. Um, my question is regarding eternity. Um, I love studying God's Word. I love teaching God's Word. And we had a discussion, um, recently about, are we going to have the Bible in heaven? And I assume that we are, because the word says the grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever. And somebody said that, um, in that group said, well, we're going to know everything. We won't need the Bible, and I'm sure we won't know everything when we get to heaven. But I'm wondering what role the Bible will play in eternity.

Wow. That's a that's a very good question. Thank you for that. Um, yeah, I'll be honest. It's not one I've I've wondered about. Um, what I'm looking forward to is, you know, asking a lot of really good questions to Isaiah and the apostle Paul in person.

Wow. That's a that's a very good question. Thank you for that. Um, yeah, I'll be honest. It's not one I've I've wondered about. Um, what I'm looking forward to is, you know, asking a lot of really good questions to Isaiah and the apostle Paul in person.

Yes.

Yes.

Me too. I've got a I've got a whole bunch of doozies. Like, you know, when you said in one Corinthians about women wearing veils because of the messengers, what what's what's the deal with that man? Yes. Um, yeah. So I've got, I've got a I've got a few Bible study questions. I want to go directly to the source, uh, as to whether we'll have the Bible in heaven. Um, I'm not too sure about that. I think we will have, you know, Jesus Christ, the eternal incarnate Word with us and and communion with him, uh, participation in his eternal life and his eternal rule is really the goal of Scripture. In other words, I might say this, you know, um, if you've got a map that's to take you to your destination, once you get to the destination, you don't really study the map all that more. I mean, you may look at it to backtrack how you got there, but once you've got there, you're not you're not really going to need the map. Instead, I think in the new creation, you'll be enjoying, um, intimate aspects of of eternal fellowship with God and the new tasks, the, the new forms of worship that the new things we do in a creation that is renewed and gloriously restored.

Me too. I've got a I've got a whole bunch of doozies. Like, you know, when you said in one Corinthians about women wearing veils because of the messengers, what what's what's the deal with that man? Yes. Um, yeah. So I've got, I've got a I've got a few Bible study questions. I want to go directly to the source, uh, as to whether we'll have the Bible in heaven. Um, I'm not too sure about that. I think we will have, you know, Jesus Christ, the eternal incarnate Word with us and and communion with him, uh, participation in his eternal life and his eternal rule is really the goal of Scripture. In other words, I might say this, you know, um, if you've got a map that's to take you to your destination, once you get to the destination, you don't really study the map all that more. I mean, you may look at it to backtrack how you got there, but once you've got there, you're not you're not really going to need the map. Instead, I think in the new creation, you'll be enjoying, um, intimate aspects of of eternal fellowship with God and the new tasks, the, the new forms of worship that the new things we do in a creation that is renewed and gloriously restored.

Mm. What a superb answer, Karen. Thank you. Most intriguing question. And Michael, thank you. So appreciate the answer. I would be remiss if I didn't touch on this, because there's been some interesting and my own editorial opinion, some very troubling conversation by some here in the church capital C in the United States that we need to disconnect the Old Testament from the New Testament. You touched on this earlier, and I want to go back to it, because it is one of the seven things that you wish Christians knew about the Bible. Some might say, well, I don't need the Old Testament anymore. I just read the red letters of Jesus in the New Testament. By the way, Jesus didn't speak in red letters. That was a publishing decision, in case you were wondering. But this idea that there is no linkage, that after Malachi we can forget it. We just pick it up on Matthew. The centricity of the message of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is Christ and Christ alone. Teach me why that is truth.