You may know her as the Grammy-nominated singer, or for playing the cunning and iconic  Wilhelmina Slater on “Ugly Betty.” But before all that, Vanessa Williams was a bright young college student from New York who would make history as the first Black Miss America, in 1984. And yet before she could complete her term, she would be dramatically dethroned — in a nude photo scandal that would ignite a torrent of racism and see her branded as “the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit the incredible making, and the staggering undoing, of the first Black Miss America.

FOR MORE:
Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger
Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess)
Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir

You may know her as the Grammy-nominated singer, or for playing the cunning and iconic  Wilhelmina Slater on “Ugly Betty.” But before all that, Vanessa Williams was a bright young college student from New York who would make history as the first Black Miss America, in 1984. And yet before she could complete her term, she would be dramatically dethroned — in a nude photo scandal that would ignite a torrent of racism and see her branded as “the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit the incredible making, and the staggering undoing, of the first Black Miss America.
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li>Books: <a href="https://margotmifflin.com/looking-for-miss-america/">Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood</a>, by Margot Mifflin, and <a href="https://www.amyargetsinger.com/">There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America</a>, by Amy Artsinger</li>
<li>Articles: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/business/miss-america-bans-swimsuits-metoo.html">Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’</a> and <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/style/miss-america-2019-pageant.html">Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America</a> (both New York Times, both by Jess)</li>
<li>Listen: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vanessa-williams-memoir-you-have-no-idea-with-susie/id1533722524?i=1000651155965">Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast</a>, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir</li>
</ul>

Is there a cultural moment from your past that looks different in retrospect? Maybe it’s a scandalous tabloid story seared into your teenage brain or a political punchline that just feels wrong now. It might be a very specific red swimsuit that inspired a decade of plastic surgery (see: “Baywatch”) or the inescapable smell of an entire generation of prepubescent boys (Axe body spray, anyone?). Each week on IN RETROSPECT, Emmy-winning journalist Susie Banikarim and New York Times editor Jessica Bennett revisit a pop culture moment from the 80s and 90s that shaped them — to try to understand what it taught us about the world, and a woman’s place in it.

Talk to us at @inretropod, @susiebnyc and @jessicabennett on Instagram. New episodes each Friday.

Is there a cultural moment from your past that looks different in retrospect? Maybe it’s a scandalous tabloid story seared into your teenage brain or a political punchline that just feels wrong now. It might be a very specific red swimsuit that inspired a decade of plastic surgery (see: “Baywatch”) or the inescapable smell of an entire generation of prepubescent boys (Axe body spray, anyone?). Each week on IN RETROSPECT, Emmy-winning journalist Susie Banikarim and New York Times editor Jessica Bennett revisit a pop culture moment from the 80s and 90s that shaped them — to try to understand what it taught us about the world, and a woman’s place in it.
Talk to us at @inretropod, @susiebnyc and @jessicabennett on Instagram. New episodes each Friday.

In Retrospect with Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett

Vanessa Williams v Miss America: The Rise and Fall of the First Black Winner  (Pt 1)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/5cc6013b-6910-4ca4-ba5b-b15d00fa2786/transcript

Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them. 

FOR MORE:
The New Menendez Defenders  (The New York Times)
Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers  (The New York Times)
New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time)

Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them. 
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/style/menendez-brothers-social-media-defenders.html">The New Menendez Defenders  (The New York Times</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/18/arts/television/menendez-brothers-menudo-roy-rossello-documentary.html">Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers  (The New York Times)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-07-17/menendez-brothers-vacate-convictions-new-hearing-evidence">New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time)</a></li>
</ul>

How the Menendez Brothers Became Social Media Stars

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/a0f4d033-33bd-45e5-9864-b1730013f5b3/transcript

Hanging out with Monica Lewinsky for her first profile in a decade. Booking Jessica Simpson for a weight loss reveal that never happened. Searching for Casey Anthony….  and not finding her. Wondering how many members of a polycule is too many to put on an expense report (!). In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit some of their most memorable, and sometimes cringey, adventures in journalism.

FOR MORE:
Polyamory: The Next Sexual Revolution? (By Jessica Bennett, Newsweek, 2010)
Monica Lewinsky Is Back, But This Time It’s On Her Terms (By Jessica Bennett, NY Times, 2015)
Jessica Simpson Reveals Post-Baby Body on Katie Couric’s New Show (People, 2012)

Hanging out with Monica Lewinsky for her first profile in a decade. Booking Jessica Simpson for a weight loss reveal that never happened. Searching for Casey Anthony….  and not finding her. Wondering how many members of a polycule is too many to put on an expense report (!). In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit some of their most memorable, and sometimes cringey, adventures in journalism.
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.newsweek.com/polyamory-next-sexual-revolution-82053">Polyamory: The Next Sexual Revolution?</a> (By Jessica Bennett, Newsweek, 2010)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/style/monica-lewinsky-is-back-but-this-time-its-on-her-terms.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&amp;referringSource=articleShare&amp;sgrp=c-cb">Monica Lewinsky Is Back, But This Time It’s On Her Terms</a> (By Jessica Bennett, NY Times, 2015)</li>
<li><a href="https://people.com/health/jessica-simpson-reveals-post-baby-body-on-katie-courics-new-show-katie/">Jessica Simpson Reveals Post-Baby Body on Katie Couric’s New Show</a> (People, 2012)</li>
</ul>

Jessica Simpson, Monica Lewinsky, and Other Adventures in Journalism

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/b141b1f8-6aae-48d0-92df-b16b01206b4b/transcript

She made history as the first Black Miss America, then dramatically lost her crown in a scandal that would see her branded as "the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” But Vanessa Williams did not just go away quietly, she fought back — going head to head with Penthouse, the magazine that published her photos, and the man who tricked her into taking them. In this episode, Jess and Susie chart the aftermath of that sordid episode, as well as Vanessa’s staggering comeback. Plus, Jess talks about the time she went to Miss America just a few years ago, reporting from inside the pageant, where a pageant “civil war” was brewing.

FOR MORE:
Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger
Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess)
Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir

She made history as the first Black Miss America, then dramatically lost her crown in a scandal that would see her branded as "the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” But Vanessa Williams did not just go away quietly, she fought back — going head to head with Penthouse, the magazine that published her photos, and the man who tricked her into taking them. In this episode, Jess and Susie chart the aftermath of that sordid episode, as well as Vanessa’s staggering comeback. Plus, Jess talks about the time she went to Miss America just a few years ago, reporting from inside the pageant, where a pageant “civil war” was brewing.
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li>Books: <a href="https://margotmifflin.com/looking-for-miss-america/">Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood</a>, by Margot Mifflin, and <a href="https://www.amyargetsinger.com/">There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America</a>, by Amy Artsinger</li>
<li>Articles: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/business/miss-america-bans-swimsuits-metoo.html">Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’</a> and <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/style/miss-america-2019-pageant.html">Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America</a> (both New York Times, both by Jess)</li>
<li>Listen: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vanessa-williams-memoir-you-have-no-idea-with-susie/id1533722524?i=1000651155965">Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast</a>, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir</li>
</ul>

Vanessa Williams v Miss America: ‘I Won’t Let That Man Destroy Me’ (Pt 2)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/814bd198-9640-4d1e-b530-b164010aff23/transcript

Vanessa Williams v Miss America: The Rise and Fall of the First Black Winner (Pt 1)

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