It's I Do Part two and we're Thelma and Louise, your favorite bestie's back at it to have a great conversation today about love and loss and chapter two. Our guest today is someone we all fell in love with when she opened herself up to love again on The Golden Bachelor and then when she starred in the Golden Bachelorette. We can't wait to talk with her today. Please welcome Joan Vassos to the podcast. Welcome, Thanks for having me.

It's I Do Part two and we're Thelma and Louise, your favorite bestie's back at it to have a great conversation today about love and loss and chapter two. Our guest today is someone we all fell in love with when she opened herself up to love again on The Golden Bachelor and then when she starred in the Golden Bachelorette. We can't wait to talk with her today. Please welcome Joan Vassos to the podcast. Welcome, Thanks for having me.

Hi Joan, Hi, how are you guys? Thank you for wanting for me to be on your podcast. I appreciate it.

Hi Joan, Hi, how are you guys? Thank you for wanting for me to be on your podcast. I appreciate it.

We're so excited.

We're so excited.

And I have to ask you a question that's totally unrelated to anything that we're talking about today, but it's always intrigued me.

And I have to ask you a question that's totally unrelated to anything that we're talking about today, but it's always intrigued me.

The clothes.

The clothes.

I mean, how did you figure out your wardrobe for the Bachelor and Bachelorette because I feel like you're in evening gowns practically every night. I mean, did you have to hire a stylist? Do you just have a naturally good sense of style? How did you approach that? And then I'll get into the meat of it, but I had to ask.

I mean, how did you figure out your wardrobe for the Bachelor and Bachelorette because I feel like you're in evening gowns practically every night. I mean, did you have to hire a stylist? Do you just have a naturally good sense of style? How did you approach that? And then I'll get into the meat of it, but I had to ask.

You, well, then we need to ask her about her arms, because let's be real, her body is ridiculous.

You, well, then we need to ask her about her arms, because let's be real, her body is ridiculous.

Oh god, no it's not. But thank you for saying that. Good lightning, I think. So for the Golden Bachelor, I had to do all my own clothes, and that you could see that they weren't anywhere near as Golden Bachelerette as good as Golden Bachelorette. So, Golden Bacher, you do all your own clothes. You have to bring all your own evening gowns and everything you wear every day is yours. And then if you get to be the lead in the show. So when I was the Golden Bachelorette, you have a stylist's name is Carrie Fatman. He's a genius. Do you go like three or four days before you start filming, or maybe even a week before you start filming, and you'd go and he has thirty racks of clothes, at least thirty RECs. He has hundreds of dresses and hundreds of outfits and they're all gorgeous, and you have conversations with them before you arrive, so you know is what your style is, like, your colors are and all that, and then you just spend three full days like eight to ten hour days trying on clothing, and then you kind of narrow it down, like you know, he'll say, you're going to need ten evening gowns, and so you try on all the evening gowns and you narrow it down to the ten and then he alters them so they are like made for your body. So it is like such a treat to have a stylist. Now I have to go back and be my own boring, you know, dressed like as you can see.

Oh god, no it's not. But thank you for saying that. Good lightning, I think. So for the Golden Bachelor, I had to do all my own clothes, and that you could see that they weren't anywhere near as Golden Bachelerette as good as Golden Bachelorette. So, Golden Bacher, you do all your own clothes. You have to bring all your own evening gowns and everything you wear every day is yours. And then if you get to be the lead in the show. So when I was the Golden Bachelorette, you have a stylist's name is Carrie Fatman. He's a genius. Do you go like three or four days before you start filming, or maybe even a week before you start filming, and you'd go and he has thirty racks of clothes, at least thirty RECs. He has hundreds of dresses and hundreds of outfits and they're all gorgeous, and you have conversations with them before you arrive, so you know is what your style is, like, your colors are and all that, and then you just spend three full days like eight to ten hour days trying on clothing, and then you kind of narrow it down, like you know, he'll say, you're going to need ten evening gowns, and so you try on all the evening gowns and you narrow it down to the ten and then he alters them so they are like made for your body. So it is like such a treat to have a stylist. Now I have to go back and be my own boring, you know, dressed like as you can see.

You get to keep any of the clothes, any of your kind of greatest hits.

You get to keep any of the clothes, any of your kind of greatest hits.

So I've heard through the Great Fige that you get to pick some of the outfits that you want to keep. But so far I don't have any of the clothes, and I'd really like to have some of them. Yeah, I'm hoping. I'm keeping my fingers press, but maybe I get something an outfit or too. I know that a lot of the evening gowns came from Randy Rahm, the designer in New York I was talking about, and so I think they go back to her. So they are kind of like borrowed. They're not they don't belong to the show. They're really expensive. She does like really big like she does Beyonce and you know, really big stars. You wore them, well, I got to wear them.

So I've heard through the Great Fige that you get to pick some of the outfits that you want to keep. But so far I don't have any of the clothes, and I'd really like to have some of them. Yeah, I'm hoping. I'm keeping my fingers press, but maybe I get something an outfit or too. I know that a lot of the evening gowns came from Randy Rahm, the designer in New York I was talking about, and so I think they go back to her. So they are kind of like borrowed. They're not they don't belong to the show. They're really expensive. She does like really big like she does Beyonce and you know, really big stars. You wore them, well, I got to wear them.

You made her look good.

You made her look good.

I think everybody wears it as well. Thank you for indulging me. It sounds like a total Cinderella moment.

I think everybody wears it as well. Thank you for indulging me. It sounds like a total Cinderella moment.

Oh my god. So it was my favorite part of the show other than finding sorry talk.

Oh my god. So it was my favorite part of the show other than finding sorry talk.

Okay, well, so now moving on, Joan, we loved watching you in The Golden Bachelor and the Golden Bachelorette. But for those listeners who may not be familiar with your story, tell us a little bit about your chapter one.

Okay, well, so now moving on, Joan, we loved watching you in The Golden Bachelor and the Golden Bachelorette. But for those listeners who may not be familiar with your story, tell us a little bit about your chapter one.

Okay, chapter one. So when I was married to John. So I met John when I was in college. We dated on and off kind of throughout like a three year period, and then when we both graduated from college, we were kind of like in the good place, you know, ready be ready to date more seriously, and we did and we got engaged. We got married. We did all the normal things that you know, married couples do. We had jobs, and we built a house and we you know, kind of started life together. We had four kidskids with four kids in six years, so we you know, we were you know, intimately involved in raising our kids and doing sports and the community.

Okay, chapter one. So when I was married to John. So I met John when I was in college. We dated on and off kind of throughout like a three year period, and then when we both graduated from college, we were kind of like in the good place, you know, ready be ready to date more seriously, and we did and we got engaged. We got married. We did all the normal things that you know, married couples do. We had jobs, and we built a house and we you know, kind of started life together. We had four kidskids with four kids in six years, so we you know, we were you know, intimately involved in raising our kids and doing sports and the community.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and which is when I kind of loved, like I really missed those years still, you know again, because I loved kind of raising my kids. John and I raising our kids with a bunch of other parents that were raising their kids, and it was like a big community effort and everybody says, Oh, we're going to have pizza tonight, or we're going to go to the baseball game. You know, our kids are playing and we're going to sit on the sidelines. And they were just such great bonding moments of raising our kids together. And I missed that like community that we had. So then, you know, my kids kind of grow up. They all went off to college, and then now I've all kind of started their own lives. When my youngest child was in college, he was a junior in college, John was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And it was kind of right as we were thinking about like our second chapter of our lives, like traveling and you know, maybe buying a second home someplace, and you know, you kind of finally get to the age where you have the time and you have you know, kind of maybe a little more extra money and you can do fun, you know, more fun things or different things. And right when we were getting to that point in our lives is when John got really, really sick. So he survived the cancer for about two years, but it was while he was in treatment. The whole time we were traveling back and forth to Empty Anderson trying to get him to be part of a trial. None of we never found a trial that he was eligible for. We never The chemo really didn't work all that well, and then he did radiation, and eventually, after almost two years, he passed away a pancreatic cancer.

Yeah, and which is when I kind of loved, like I really missed those years still, you know again, because I loved kind of raising my kids. John and I raising our kids with a bunch of other parents that were raising their kids, and it was like a big community effort and everybody says, Oh, we're going to have pizza tonight, or we're going to go to the baseball game. You know, our kids are playing and we're going to sit on the sidelines. And they were just such great bonding moments of raising our kids together. And I missed that like community that we had. So then, you know, my kids kind of grow up. They all went off to college, and then now I've all kind of started their own lives. When my youngest child was in college, he was a junior in college, John was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And it was kind of right as we were thinking about like our second chapter of our lives, like traveling and you know, maybe buying a second home someplace, and you know, you kind of finally get to the age where you have the time and you have you know, kind of maybe a little more extra money and you can do fun, you know, more fun things or different things. And right when we were getting to that point in our lives is when John got really, really sick. So he survived the cancer for about two years, but it was while he was in treatment. The whole time we were traveling back and forth to Empty Anderson trying to get him to be part of a trial. None of we never found a trial that he was eligible for. We never The chemo really didn't work all that well, and then he did radiation, and eventually, after almost two years, he passed away a pancreatic cancer.

So sorry, that's so hard. That's that's that's awful, and.

So sorry, that's so hard. That's that's that's awful, and.

It's a terrible cancer. So those two years that he was alive, most of those years weren't really weren't very good. He was in a lot of pain. So it's it was a horrible way to die. And and he left, you know, kind of right at the part of our life where we were going to start really having fun and go back to being a couple, not just parents that you know, to our four kids. So I felt like my life had kind of ended, like my whole future that I was planning with John was all of a sudden like this black hole. There was no future. I didn't have a person to spend it with. I didn't really want to, you know, I just was kind of in the mode of just staying alive and trying to be strong for my kids, to try to like support them as well as I could. And you know, I would see them and I was the happy person, and you know, we got we're getting through this and we're a great family. And then I would go up to my bedroom and I would cry. And that took me about two years to get through kind of that phase of life to then look and say, Okay, well maybe I can't have a future. I didn't feel like I could in the beginning, But then I thought, you know, why am I at the age of fifty nine saying that I can't have a second chance at love? Because you know, I was married to John for thirty two years. What tells me that I can't have somebody else for thirty two years at that age? I possibly could. And so I decided that I needed to take action, and I did some dating apps, like everybody does, you know, that's like the widest net.

It's a terrible cancer. So those two years that he was alive, most of those years weren't really weren't very good. He was in a lot of pain. So it's it was a horrible way to die. And and he left, you know, kind of right at the part of our life where we were going to start really having fun and go back to being a couple, not just parents that you know, to our four kids. So I felt like my life had kind of ended, like my whole future that I was planning with John was all of a sudden like this black hole. There was no future. I didn't have a person to spend it with. I didn't really want to, you know, I just was kind of in the mode of just staying alive and trying to be strong for my kids, to try to like support them as well as I could. And you know, I would see them and I was the happy person, and you know, we got we're getting through this and we're a great family. And then I would go up to my bedroom and I would cry. And that took me about two years to get through kind of that phase of life to then look and say, Okay, well maybe I can't have a future. I didn't feel like I could in the beginning, But then I thought, you know, why am I at the age of fifty nine saying that I can't have a second chance at love? Because you know, I was married to John for thirty two years. What tells me that I can't have somebody else for thirty two years at that age? I possibly could. And so I decided that I needed to take action, and I did some dating apps, like everybody does, you know, that's like the widest net.

I am so scared of those dating apps and were there friends that were pushing you to do it or was it something your kids were involved with, saying Mom, it's time to do that. Or did you and John have those conversations that he wanted you to have another kind of chapter two.

I am so scared of those dating apps and were there friends that were pushing you to do it or was it something your kids were involved with, saying Mom, it's time to do that. Or did you and John have those conversations that he wanted you to have another kind of chapter two.

Yeah, kind of all of the book actually.

Yeah, kind of all of the book actually.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So right before he passed away, about three days before he passed away, I remember him calling me over to this sop and he's like, come sit next to me, comes in next to me. He was kind of in and out of sleep. He was really sleeping. He was pretty well drugged. And he said, we have a great life together, and I want you to be happy again. And he said I want you to find somebody else. And I was in total denial. If it like, it's hard to believe, I was, because he went from one hundred and twenty one hundre two hundred and twenty pounds to like one hundred and ten pounds and I still looked at him and thought he was going to live. And I said no, I said, I am not having this conversation with you. I said, you are not leaving me, and he's like, all right, oh, Joe. It was the best gift he could have given me, because I would have had a really really hard time doing this. If I didn't have his blessing, In fact, I probably wouldn't be here today because but he did this. You know, he gave this to me and I didn't know it at the time, and I didn't really even think about it for a lot of months, probably well into the second year after he had passed away, and it gave me this freedom.

So right before he passed away, about three days before he passed away, I remember him calling me over to this sop and he's like, come sit next to me, comes in next to me. He was kind of in and out of sleep. He was really sleeping. He was pretty well drugged. And he said, we have a great life together, and I want you to be happy again. And he said I want you to find somebody else. And I was in total denial. If it like, it's hard to believe, I was, because he went from one hundred and twenty one hundre two hundred and twenty pounds to like one hundred and ten pounds and I still looked at him and thought he was going to live. And I said no, I said, I am not having this conversation with you. I said, you are not leaving me, and he's like, all right, oh, Joe. It was the best gift he could have given me, because I would have had a really really hard time doing this. If I didn't have his blessing, In fact, I probably wouldn't be here today because but he did this. You know, he gave this to me and I didn't know it at the time, and I didn't really even think about it for a lot of months, probably well into the second year after he had passed away, and it gave me this freedom.

It was almost like permission was a little bit of permission almost right.

It was almost like permission was a little bit of permission almost right.

Absolutely wise, yeah, absolutely, And like I said, I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't gotten that. He was also a person that lived really big. He lived life to the fullest. Like everything he did was epic. You never went on like a normal vacation. You went to the best hotel, and you rented like every boat and every you know, like water toy you could rent, and like everything was big and everything was huge. We go to a restaurant, just a normal restaurant, and he orders every dessert on the menu just because we wanted to try it all.

Absolutely wise, yeah, absolutely, And like I said, I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't gotten that. He was also a person that lived really big. He lived life to the fullest. Like everything he did was epic. You never went on like a normal vacation. You went to the best hotel, and you rented like every boat and every you know, like water toy you could rent, and like everything was big and everything was huge. We go to a restaurant, just a normal restaurant, and he orders every dessert on the menu just because we wanted to try it all.

What a data VI, what a life spirit. But that's so such a fun life, so brave of you. And he's probably looking from above and he's happy and all that. But it's so brave and it's I'm so happy for you that you're you're getting this again. Are your kids are they? How were they supportive of you? Do they want to see you have another life? I mean, you have four kids. I'm sure there was conflicting feelings for all of them.

What a data VI, what a life spirit. But that's so such a fun life, so brave of you. And he's probably looking from above and he's happy and all that. But it's so brave and it's I'm so happy for you that you're you're getting this again. Are your kids are they? How were they supportive of you? Do they want to see you have another life? I mean, you have four kids. I'm sure there was conflicting feelings for all of them.

Kind of so they wanted me happy, absolutely, But I think the whole process of like them knowing I was dating wasn't really particularly comfortable. But you know, at this but they're all adults, so it's not like I have kids at home that are worried, you know, that I'm going to bring a man home, you know, enter their home or something like that. That wasn't a worry and they wanted me to be happy. I just don't think they really wanted the details of it. They didn't really want to know a lot about relationships and stuff like that. So when I was doing online dating, that was easy. You know, I'd be like I'm going on days night, or maybe I wouldn't even tell them whatever, And I didn't talk about the men, you know, really very often. When I told them that I had filled out the application to go on build a.

Kind of so they wanted me happy, absolutely, But I think the whole process of like them knowing I was dating wasn't really particularly comfortable. But you know, at this but they're all adults, so it's not like I have kids at home that are worried, you know, that I'm going to bring a man home, you know, enter their home or something like that. That wasn't a worry and they wanted me to be happy. I just don't think they really wanted the details of it. They didn't really want to know a lot about relationships and stuff like that. So when I was doing online dating, that was easy. You know, I'd be like I'm going on days night, or maybe I wouldn't even tell them whatever, And I didn't talk about the men, you know, really very often. When I told them that I had filled out the application to go on build a.

Bag, Sorry, was that your idea to go on the show or was that a friend so tell us about that. That's amazing.

Bag, Sorry, was that your idea to go on the show or was that a friend so tell us about that. That's amazing.

So I was out to dinner with a friend. We were sitting at the bar, and it was right at about the two year marks. So John had been gone for about two years. The first year, you know, people say, oh, after the first year, you start feeling better. Not true. I felt like crap. In fact, I felt worse the second year. It kind of all hit me like this is my life, this like what the you know, like what the heck happened? And so that second year was really hard. And I was getting to the end of that second year and I was starting to feel lonely. Before I was just kind of numb, and then I started feeling lonely and feeling like I wasn't part of a couple, which is really hard in the world of couples. And I had gone from being you know this, you know, John and I had gone from being a couple that we did. We had a lot of couple of friends with I had a lot of couple of friends. We did a lot with our couple of friends to me being a single and then all of a sudden that was excluded from all kinds of social things because I was a single so I was starting to feel all we're familiar with that, you get it right, and it's so weird hard, Yeah, it really is. And I was like like alone on singles Island and I hated it and I wanted I was starting to feel like I wanted to be a couple again, mainly because of the like I missed doing the things with other couples.

So I was out to dinner with a friend. We were sitting at the bar, and it was right at about the two year marks. So John had been gone for about two years. The first year, you know, people say, oh, after the first year, you start feeling better. Not true. I felt like crap. In fact, I felt worse the second year. It kind of all hit me like this is my life, this like what the you know, like what the heck happened? And so that second year was really hard. And I was getting to the end of that second year and I was starting to feel lonely. Before I was just kind of numb, and then I started feeling lonely and feeling like I wasn't part of a couple, which is really hard in the world of couples. And I had gone from being you know this, you know, John and I had gone from being a couple that we did. We had a lot of couple of friends with I had a lot of couple of friends. We did a lot with our couple of friends to me being a single and then all of a sudden that was excluded from all kinds of social things because I was a single so I was starting to feel all we're familiar with that, you get it right, and it's so weird hard, Yeah, it really is. And I was like like alone on singles Island and I hated it and I wanted I was starting to feel like I wanted to be a couple again, mainly because of the like I missed doing the things with other couples.

Question. You mentioned that you met your husband You met John in college, So you really I mean you never really experienced dating. You fell in love young and kind of it sounds like I grew up with John, so first time in thirty years. That not only had you been through really a tragedy, but you also had to figure out like what what that looked to date?

Question. You mentioned that you met your husband You met John in college, So you really I mean you never really experienced dating. You fell in love young and kind of it sounds like I grew up with John, so first time in thirty years. That not only had you been through really a tragedy, but you also had to figure out like what what that looked to date?

And so I mean, what were you feeling at.

And so I mean, what were you feeling at.

The time, and how did you approach that or did you have help?

The time, and how did you approach that or did you have help?

You know? Yeah, so weird, right. I mean I had this idea that I would rather meet somebody like or so I had this new thing that I would do. I meet friends out for dinner, and I have tons of friends, so I would be out a lot and you know, they kind of like a lot of them kind of made me go out in the beginning, and they're like, you can't sit at home. You need to get out, You need to get out. And that kind of became like my life, me going out with my friends, you know, most evenings every week. So and I would always go. We used to go sit at a table, and I would say, let's sit at the bar now because I thought it opened me up to us.

You know? Yeah, so weird, right. I mean I had this idea that I would rather meet somebody like or so I had this new thing that I would do. I meet friends out for dinner, and I have tons of friends, so I would be out a lot and you know, they kind of like a lot of them kind of made me go out in the beginning, and they're like, you can't sit at home. You need to get out, You need to get out. And that kind of became like my life, me going out with my friends, you know, most evenings every week. So and I would always go. We used to go sit at a table, and I would say, let's sit at the bar now because I thought it opened me up to us.

So we do. We did it yesterday. It's so fun, just the two of us though.

So we do. We did it yesterday. It's so fun, just the two of us though.

It just and it's fun going out with a girlfriend because a lot of times people will engage you with talking and sometimes it's just another couple, a guy, a man and a woman, like a husband and wife. But you know, you never know, like when you're out if that husband and wife have a friend or like the more that you're out there and the more accessible you are, So you need to not go sit at a table where no one's going to come up to you. You need to sit at the bar.

It just and it's fun going out with a girlfriend because a lot of times people will engage you with talking and sometimes it's just another couple, a guy, a man and a woman, like a husband and wife. But you know, you never know, like when you're out if that husband and wife have a friend or like the more that you're out there and the more accessible you are, So you need to not go sit at a table where no one's going to come up to you. You need to sit at the bar.

Or it doesn't just drop out of the sky, right like you have to put it out there.

Or it doesn't just drop out of the sky, right like you have to put it out there.

Absolutely totally agree with you on that one. So we were out. We were sitting at a local restaurant, a bar, like actually right across the street from a house where I go off, and like, I know the bartender, I know other people there, so it's like a really comfortable place to meet for me. And I said to my friend, you know, I really feel like I'm ready to maybe start dating, and kind of in my I thought it in my head. My heart didn't really feel that way yet, but my head definitely knew that I wasn't getting any younger, I wasn't getting prettier, I wasn't getting any more fun, and that they were there could be guys out there that are feeling the same way, maybe close to my age or whatever, and I thought I felt like I needed to get out there. So like I was saying that into my head, but I said to her, I go, like, look around this restaurant. I go, everybody here is a couple, and she's like, yeah, they are. I go, how am I ever going to meet somebody? I really want to meet somebody organically. I don't want to do dating apps. I want to like be at a wedding or be at a bar like this, or at a restaurant, or meet somebody at the grocery store. You both reach for the tomato or you know some romantic story like that. But I was like, it hasn't happened yet, and I don't feel like it's going to happen. She's like, you're going to have to do dating apps and I.

Absolutely totally agree with you on that one. So we were out. We were sitting at a local restaurant, a bar, like actually right across the street from a house where I go off, and like, I know the bartender, I know other people there, so it's like a really comfortable place to meet for me. And I said to my friend, you know, I really feel like I'm ready to maybe start dating, and kind of in my I thought it in my head. My heart didn't really feel that way yet, but my head definitely knew that I wasn't getting any younger, I wasn't getting prettier, I wasn't getting any more fun, and that they were there could be guys out there that are feeling the same way, maybe close to my age or whatever, and I thought I felt like I needed to get out there. So like I was saying that into my head, but I said to her, I go, like, look around this restaurant. I go, everybody here is a couple, and she's like, yeah, they are. I go, how am I ever going to meet somebody? I really want to meet somebody organically. I don't want to do dating apps. I want to like be at a wedding or be at a bar like this, or at a restaurant, or meet somebody at the grocery store. You both reach for the tomato or you know some romantic story like that. But I was like, it hasn't happened yet, and I don't feel like it's going to happen. She's like, you're going to have to do dating apps and I.

Was like, ugh, do you live in a small Do you live in a small community where most people are married? Were people thinking to set you up?

Was like, ugh, do you live in a small Do you live in a small community where most people are married? Were people thinking to set you up?

So I kind of put it out there that I was ready to be set up, and people were like, Oh, you're not gonna like any of the guys I know that are single, or look, I don't know anybody single. So like people weren't particularly wanting to set me up. They didn't think that I would be interested in the people that we knew that were single. So, but I don't live in a small community. I live right outside of Washington, DC. I live actually right in the suburbs of a big city. So it's not like there shouldn't have been a lot of people out there. But I guess my friends just said no once again, couples hang out with couples.

So I kind of put it out there that I was ready to be set up, and people were like, Oh, you're not gonna like any of the guys I know that are single, or look, I don't know anybody single. So like people weren't particularly wanting to set me up. They didn't think that I would be interested in the people that we knew that were single. So, but I don't live in a small community. I live right outside of Washington, DC. I live actually right in the suburbs of a big city. So it's not like there shouldn't have been a lot of people out there. But I guess my friends just said no once again, couples hang out with couples.

You also probably just wanted the exercise of dating, right, I mean, it's not like you were like I need to find my mister perfect. It's like, yeah, you probably just didn't even know what it was like to date, so it was more about like exercising the muscle, right.

You also probably just wanted the exercise of dating, right, I mean, it's not like you were like I need to find my mister perfect. It's like, yeah, you probably just didn't even know what it was like to date, so it was more about like exercising the muscle, right.

But she's also good at it. She's also great at a relationship obviously. So I'm sure that that felt something that would be another destination that you would want in your life. Potentially.

But she's also good at it. She's also great at a relationship obviously. So I'm sure that that felt something that would be another destination that you would want in your life. Potentially.

Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love, like I said, being part of a and I loved the give and take and I love the I love going out with somebody. I still love sitting at home and watching a Netflix like I like having my person. It's just like I had it for so many years of my life. I didn't really know how to do it without having somebody, Like like you said, I was. You know, we married kind of young. You know, we started dating when we were in college. I dated while I was in college, but like it's college dating, that's not like serious dating. I started dating seriously right out of college was John. So I never really had a long term relationship with anybody other than John. So I did need the practice a lot. And so I came home from that restaurant that night thinking I got to go on a dating app and this, and I turned my TV on and I'm a bachelor watcher and it was a Bachelor night, and I turned my TV on to watch the Bachelor, and the first commercial that came up said, we are taking casting calls for a new series called the Golden Bachelor.

Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love, like I said, being part of a and I loved the give and take and I love the I love going out with somebody. I still love sitting at home and watching a Netflix like I like having my person. It's just like I had it for so many years of my life. I didn't really know how to do it without having somebody, Like like you said, I was. You know, we married kind of young. You know, we started dating when we were in college. I dated while I was in college, but like it's college dating, that's not like serious dating. I started dating seriously right out of college was John. So I never really had a long term relationship with anybody other than John. So I did need the practice a lot. And so I came home from that restaurant that night thinking I got to go on a dating app and this, and I turned my TV on and I'm a bachelor watcher and it was a Bachelor night, and I turned my TV on to watch the Bachelor, and the first commercial that came up said, we are taking casting calls for a new series called the Golden Bachelor.

Oh my god, that's a message from the universe.

Oh my god, that's a message from the universe.

Directly, that's exactly what I saimilarly, like a speaking to me. And so I filled that application out and I did a really lousy job because I was on my phone and I had had two glasses of wine and I can't see or type. When after I got any wine.

Directly, that's exactly what I saimilarly, like a speaking to me. And so I filled that application out and I did a really lousy job because I was on my phone and I had had two glasses of wine and I can't see or type. When after I got any wine.

And there was no chat GPT, then yeah, well there was and.

And there was no chat GPT, then yeah, well there was and.

I needed it. No, no, no, So I filled out like I don't know. It was a long application, like ninety questions. It was really really really long. I filled out about half of it. I did the part where you need to send you know, like your Instagram and your social media stuff, which I don't think I had any followers on Instagram. I'm going to be positive I had it, but I set whatever I had.

I needed it. No, no, no, So I filled out like I don't know. It was a long application, like ninety questions. It was really really really long. I filled out about half of it. I did the part where you need to send you know, like your Instagram and your social media stuff, which I don't think I had any followers on Instagram. I'm going to be positive I had it, but I set whatever I had.

So you were the first star really of Golden Bachelette. Did you honestly think that there was a reality or potential that you could find a forever love on the show, Like if so, and at what moment did you think yourself, Oh my god, this this could really work for.

So you were the first star really of Golden Bachelette. Did you honestly think that there was a reality or potential that you could find a forever love on the show, Like if so, and at what moment did you think yourself, Oh my god, this this could really work for.

Me, This could happen. So it kind of became a little bit of a reality when I was on Golden Boucher, or not necessarily because of Gary. I mean, he was fine, but I didn't think he was a match for me. But when I went on my one in one date with him, I felt like I could picture it finally, like picture actually being with another person. And I hadn't up until that point. I was even on the show filming and still was thinking, you know, I don't picture myself with anybody other than John. And after I went on my date with Gary, even though I knew he wasn't for me, and I left the next day, So that was the day I left to go home to my daughter, I all of a sudden, like a switch flipped, and I felt like I could picture a life with somebody else. And I think part of it was not just being with Gary, but being with the other twenty one other women and hearing them their stories and seeing how much fun they're having dating and you know, their stories about finding love again. It made me want it more and think it was possible more because I'm like these smart women that I really really respect and you know, you know, kind of grew to love there. A lot of them are my really really good friends. Now we're doing it, and it gave me faith that if they were doing it, why did I think that it wasn't going to work for me. So it kind of like the switch kind of clips. So when I went on Golden but when I became the Golden Bacherette and I started that filming, I actually was feeling pretty positive about it, but I was worried because I hadn't met the men yet, and I was like, I don't know what they're casting for me, even though I know the producers pretty well because I've done Golden Bachelor and over like that time of them, you know, interviewing me and kind of selecting me and going through that whole process to become the Golden Bacherette. I really spoke to them a lot, and they I felt like they knew me pretty well. But I had no idea who was going to apply for this, because I didn't know if there were going to be a bunch of really outgoing men that you know, wanted to be out there and wanted to date on National TV, Like, I don't know if there's a big group of those people, because most men I know would be like, yeah, no thanks, I'm not going to do that on National TV. That's like not very dignified. I just felt like they wouldn't be open to being open and being vulnerable and talking about their feelings, and that certainly is required in this process. So I thought, maybe they're not going to have a lot of men. So I was really worth the night of the limousines entering. I was like, Okay, this is it. I got to see if, like there's anybody good here, and I felt pretty soon after the first couple limousines came that this could be, this could work out. And how did you.

Me, This could happen. So it kind of became a little bit of a reality when I was on Golden Boucher, or not necessarily because of Gary. I mean, he was fine, but I didn't think he was a match for me. But when I went on my one in one date with him, I felt like I could picture it finally, like picture actually being with another person. And I hadn't up until that point. I was even on the show filming and still was thinking, you know, I don't picture myself with anybody other than John. And after I went on my date with Gary, even though I knew he wasn't for me, and I left the next day, So that was the day I left to go home to my daughter, I all of a sudden, like a switch flipped, and I felt like I could picture a life with somebody else. And I think part of it was not just being with Gary, but being with the other twenty one other women and hearing them their stories and seeing how much fun they're having dating and you know, their stories about finding love again. It made me want it more and think it was possible more because I'm like these smart women that I really really respect and you know, you know, kind of grew to love there. A lot of them are my really really good friends. Now we're doing it, and it gave me faith that if they were doing it, why did I think that it wasn't going to work for me. So it kind of like the switch kind of clips. So when I went on Golden but when I became the Golden Bacherette and I started that filming, I actually was feeling pretty positive about it, but I was worried because I hadn't met the men yet, and I was like, I don't know what they're casting for me, even though I know the producers pretty well because I've done Golden Bachelor and over like that time of them, you know, interviewing me and kind of selecting me and going through that whole process to become the Golden Bacherette. I really spoke to them a lot, and they I felt like they knew me pretty well. But I had no idea who was going to apply for this, because I didn't know if there were going to be a bunch of really outgoing men that you know, wanted to be out there and wanted to date on National TV, Like, I don't know if there's a big group of those people, because most men I know would be like, yeah, no thanks, I'm not going to do that on National TV. That's like not very dignified. I just felt like they wouldn't be open to being open and being vulnerable and talking about their feelings, and that certainly is required in this process. So I thought, maybe they're not going to have a lot of men. So I was really worth the night of the limousines entering. I was like, Okay, this is it. I got to see if, like there's anybody good here, and I felt pretty soon after the first couple limousines came that this could be, this could work out. And how did you.

Obviously you knew you were going on the Golden Bachelorette and you'd already done the Golden Bachelor.

Obviously you knew you were going on the Golden Bachelorette and you'd already done the Golden Bachelor.

But back to your kids.

But back to your kids.

I think I read an article recently that talked about how you had four kids and two of them kind of have they had different opinions on you dating and especially doing it in the limelight in front of the you know, national television. So how much did you seek input permission from them and really involve them in this process?

I think I read an article recently that talked about how you had four kids and two of them kind of have they had different opinions on you dating and especially doing it in the limelight in front of the you know, national television. So how much did you seek input permission from them and really involve them in this process?

Probably input, not permission, because I'm not sure if they would ever not give me permission, because they would never be like that selfish, and they knew, you know, I really wanted to do it, they would want that for me. But I did really want their input because I wanted respect their privacy, because like, it was me going on this journey, not them, And so I wanted to make sure I didn't embarrass them. I didn't you know, reveal anything about them that they didn't want revealed, because this was my journey, not theirs. So I had conversations. I had a lot of conversations with my kids, and I had too that thought it was really kind of cool and fun, and you know, my thought was and I actually had this conversation with a friend of mine. I said, God, I don't know if I'm gonna I want to do this. I'm afraid that like, in some way, it's not respecting John's memory, it's not honoring John by going out and doing something this kind of mist salacious, you know, it's a little you know, a little sortied maybe or something. You know. I didn't feel that way, but I was afraid that other people did. And and I kind of knew how I was going to do this process and that I was going to be dignified. I was going to be embarrassing, but I just didn't want, like to embarrass my kids.

Probably input, not permission, because I'm not sure if they would ever not give me permission, because they would never be like that selfish, and they knew, you know, I really wanted to do it, they would want that for me. But I did really want their input because I wanted respect their privacy, because like, it was me going on this journey, not them, And so I wanted to make sure I didn't embarrass them. I didn't you know, reveal anything about them that they didn't want revealed, because this was my journey, not theirs. So I had conversations. I had a lot of conversations with my kids, and I had too that thought it was really kind of cool and fun, and you know, my thought was and I actually had this conversation with a friend of mine. I said, God, I don't know if I'm gonna I want to do this. I'm afraid that like, in some way, it's not respecting John's memory, it's not honoring John by going out and doing something this kind of mist salacious, you know, it's a little you know, a little sortied maybe or something. You know. I didn't feel that way, but I was afraid that other people did. And and I kind of knew how I was going to do this process and that I was going to be dignified. I was going to be embarrassing, but I just didn't want, like to embarrass my kids.

One of the things that Thelma and I really took away was the way you handled those overnight dates that you didn't I mean, it was so elegant and so classy and respect I mean it was it was literally Probably my biggest takeaway was how you handle that. It was amazing.

One of the things that Thelma and I really took away was the way you handled those overnight dates that you didn't I mean, it was so elegant and so classy and respect I mean it was it was literally Probably my biggest takeaway was how you handle that. It was amazing.

Thank you. I put a lot of thought in that because I didn't think it was going to be really popular with the producers. I mean that's part of the show, and or the guys or the guys or the guys there's that too, But I felt like I had to do what was right for me. And there's no in no universe can I ever imagine sleeping with three guys in the.

Thank you. I put a lot of thought in that because I didn't think it was going to be really popular with the producers. I mean that's part of the show, and or the guys or the guys or the guys there's that too, But I felt like I had to do what was right for me. And there's no in no universe can I ever imagine sleeping with three guys in the.

Same week, so with your kids and your friends and your community watching the show.

Same week, so with your kids and your friends and your community watching the show.

Well, I agree with that, and I think and by the way, I would have handled it the same way. And as as you know, Louise indicated, I thought you were a stellar and you were. You handled it head on, you were direct, you were vulnerable and you were amazing.

Well, I agree with that, and I think and by the way, I would have handled it the same way. And as as you know, Louise indicated, I thought you were a stellar and you were. You handled it head on, you were direct, you were vulnerable and you were amazing.

And so transparent.

And so transparent.

Question for you, was there any concern because obviously you had I mean being with the person for thirty one years, right and being I mean there's a level of comfort there. Were you at all concerned that this was your opportunity to you know, be with these men and were you concerned at all about intimacy? I don't, you know, was that a priority? Obviously not to that level.

Question for you, was there any concern because obviously you had I mean being with the person for thirty one years, right and being I mean there's a level of comfort there. Were you at all concerned that this was your opportunity to you know, be with these men and were you concerned at all about intimacy? I don't, you know, was that a priority? Obviously not to that level.

But you know what I'm saying, I absolutely so, Like you said, you know, it was going to be very weird and you know, kind of out of my comfort zone again, like dating was out of my comfort zone. I you know, kind of did that. But getting to that end, you think, Okay, there's obviously a physical component. I mean, and it's certainly a message that I wanted out there. Honestly, I didn't want like this was a show about people dating in their you know, second half of their life, and so like, I think addressing an intimacy part of it is important because I don't want people to think that that's not an important part of my relationship or a relationship at this age, we know it is, right, I Mean, it's certainly like it's certainly something that I wanted, but I didn't want to do it on national TV. And I think there's things that you can tell about your attraction to a person that doesn't have to take it all the way to the end. So I mean kissing is you know, really important, and you know, I feel like there's more, there's intimate moments that don't require you like having sex with somebody. And so I mean, like I knew that I was only going to have, you know, a physical relationship with one person if I ended up with somebody, and you know, I didn't, So I know I was going to end up with somebody, but I knew that wasn't going to be on the table for until the end, until I was either engaged or the show was over, and I had just one person left, whether engaged or not. And like, I was not going to do it before that. It just didn't feel right to me. It's just not my it's just not the way ever operated.

But you know what I'm saying, I absolutely so, Like you said, you know, it was going to be very weird and you know, kind of out of my comfort zone again, like dating was out of my comfort zone. I you know, kind of did that. But getting to that end, you think, Okay, there's obviously a physical component. I mean, and it's certainly a message that I wanted out there. Honestly, I didn't want like this was a show about people dating in their you know, second half of their life, and so like, I think addressing an intimacy part of it is important because I don't want people to think that that's not an important part of my relationship or a relationship at this age, we know it is, right, I Mean, it's certainly like it's certainly something that I wanted, but I didn't want to do it on national TV. And I think there's things that you can tell about your attraction to a person that doesn't have to take it all the way to the end. So I mean kissing is you know, really important, and you know, I feel like there's more, there's intimate moments that don't require you like having sex with somebody. And so I mean, like I knew that I was only going to have, you know, a physical relationship with one person if I ended up with somebody, and you know, I didn't, So I know I was going to end up with somebody, but I knew that wasn't going to be on the table for until the end, until I was either engaged or the show was over, and I had just one person left, whether engaged or not. And like, I was not going to do it before that. It just didn't feel right to me. It's just not my it's just not the way ever operated.

It's interesting because it's it's you get off the show and all of a sudden you're engaged. And so in addition to the you know, kind of physical step, there's so much to learn about somebody and you guys have you know, fifty years of life experiences completely separate that you really need to see if kind of your Obviously you've learned that your core values are aligned, but there is such a learning curve to like really to see and to almost undo other like kind of behaviors and different things that you navigated for so long. With John, it's been a big it's a big thing. So it was kind of like getting off the show and then I would assume you're looking at each other and you're like, where do we start?

It's interesting because it's it's you get off the show and all of a sudden you're engaged. And so in addition to the you know, kind of physical step, there's so much to learn about somebody and you guys have you know, fifty years of life experiences completely separate that you really need to see if kind of your Obviously you've learned that your core values are aligned, but there is such a learning curve to like really to see and to almost undo other like kind of behaviors and different things that you navigated for so long. With John, it's been a big it's a big thing. So it was kind of like getting off the show and then I would assume you're looking at each other and you're like, where do we start?

Exactly what happened? It's hilarious. So you do you take like this leap of faith? You really do? You say? Okay, you know, like there's so many really good things. And like I said from the very beginning, I don't need to be engaged at the end of this process. I want to leave this show with a signal I can't one person that I wanted to explore how you know, our lives would work together, that we would work together. But I did feel pretty strongly about Chocolate. I did feel like I was in love with him, and you know, I thought he might actually propose to me, and he did, and I had in my mind that I would say yes. That I was going to take this leap of faith. I don't have to I don't have to marry him, but it would be nice to leave this process with the real commitment. And so I said yes, obviously when he asked me to marry him. And then we went back. We were staying on a ship, and we went back to the ship and we went into he was in a suite. We were with in sweets. So I went, I went down to his suite. I changed my clothes. But on the evening, gown went down to his suite and had a bottle of wine there and two glasses, and he pored him and he goes, so, tell me about yourself. Are you nervous?

Exactly what happened? It's hilarious. So you do you take like this leap of faith? You really do? You say? Okay, you know, like there's so many really good things. And like I said from the very beginning, I don't need to be engaged at the end of this process. I want to leave this show with a signal I can't one person that I wanted to explore how you know, our lives would work together, that we would work together. But I did feel pretty strongly about Chocolate. I did feel like I was in love with him, and you know, I thought he might actually propose to me, and he did, and I had in my mind that I would say yes. That I was going to take this leap of faith. I don't have to I don't have to marry him, but it would be nice to leave this process with the real commitment. And so I said yes, obviously when he asked me to marry him. And then we went back. We were staying on a ship, and we went back to the ship and we went into he was in a suite. We were with in sweets. So I went, I went down to his suite. I changed my clothes. But on the evening, gown went down to his suite and had a bottle of wine there and two glasses, and he pored him and he goes, so, tell me about yourself. Are you nervous?

I would have been nervous.

I would have been nervous.

I was. I'm engaged in this person. I tell liquid courage. I did I need liquids, curds. It was like one o'clock in the afternoon and I'm we dranking two hobitles of wine, I think. And we really just sat there and got to know each other. Which you talked about kids, We talked about marriages, we talked about things that we talked about a little bit on the show. But once again, I didn't want to read the deal, things about my kids or you know, parts of my life that would embarrass my kids or not. You know, I wouldn't went on TV. And he was the same way. So it was finally our chance to just be free and open and talk about whatever we wanted. But we were really lucky because Batcher does a really good job of fostering your relationship during those months where you're not public yet. So you you know, you finish filming and you have like three months before the finale and they, you know, they get that you need to like you know, date kind of you need to be with each other and figure out. So we had these they're called happy couple visits, and we had five of them, which is more than anybody has ever had it.

I was. I'm engaged in this person. I tell liquid courage. I did I need liquids, curds. It was like one o'clock in the afternoon and I'm we dranking two hobitles of wine, I think. And we really just sat there and got to know each other. Which you talked about kids, We talked about marriages, we talked about things that we talked about a little bit on the show. But once again, I didn't want to read the deal, things about my kids or you know, parts of my life that would embarrass my kids or not. You know, I wouldn't went on TV. And he was the same way. So it was finally our chance to just be free and open and talk about whatever we wanted. But we were really lucky because Batcher does a really good job of fostering your relationship during those months where you're not public yet. So you you know, you finish filming and you have like three months before the finale and they, you know, they get that you need to like you know, date kind of you need to be with each other and figure out. So we had these they're called happy couple visits, and we had five of them, which is more than anybody has ever had it.

Psychondrigal visits in jail.

Psychondrigal visits in jail.

It's like go to jail and like, you know, having the room, but instead it's in a beautiful home to these beautiful airbnbs in la and you have a pool and a tennis court and some of them. So it's lovely and they give you food you say, we're going to cook, and they'll get to do your grocery shopping for you, and they just give you time to be together and actually and that first meeting was weird also because we hadn't been together in like three weeks because we'd stop filming. But we you know, there was time. There was a chunk of time where we couldn't see each other for like three weeks, and then we finally went on our first a happy couple you know weekend, which is like a four day weekend. And I remember I got to the house before talk and I was like, this is so awkward, Like he's just going to come even seeing him a hurdly little the.

It's like go to jail and like, you know, having the room, but instead it's in a beautiful home to these beautiful airbnbs in la and you have a pool and a tennis court and some of them. So it's lovely and they give you food you say, we're going to cook, and they'll get to do your grocery shopping for you, and they just give you time to be together and actually and that first meeting was weird also because we hadn't been together in like three weeks because we'd stop filming. But we you know, there was time. There was a chunk of time where we couldn't see each other for like three weeks, and then we finally went on our first a happy couple you know weekend, which is like a four day weekend. And I remember I got to the house before talk and I was like, this is so awkward, Like he's just going to come even seeing him a hurdly little the.

Guy, Well, you do look good on face time, so hopefully you guys FaceTime regularly.

Guy, Well, you do look good on face time, so hopefully you guys FaceTime regularly.

We did a little bit. We talked a lot. We didn't FaceTime quite as much because he would be working, I'd be in like in my car or whatever. For some reason, we didn't FaceTime all that much. But we talked like five times a day. So we certainly were getting to know each other really well. But we were both super nervous coming into that house. And hey, I got there first. He got there about an hour later, and he walked in with the suitcase and he comes in and he gives me a kiss, and we were right back where we were before. So like it was just like we didn't skip a beat. We were right back kind of to where we were when we left, when we were in love and we you know, we're you know, figuring each other out. We got to that point. So and then every visit after that and I said we had five every time it was better and better and better. We became more solid. We knew each other better, but we still hadn't dated out like in the real world. So we we you know, we dated in like a bubble. So we finally, you know, after the finale started to go you know, got to go out. We went to New York City right at the finale and spent a week there, and then he came to my home and we spent time here, met some of my friends, and you know, spent time with my family, and you know, now we just kind of we kind of moved back. We worked backwards. We got engaged.

We did a little bit. We talked a lot. We didn't FaceTime quite as much because he would be working, I'd be in like in my car or whatever. For some reason, we didn't FaceTime all that much. But we talked like five times a day. So we certainly were getting to know each other really well. But we were both super nervous coming into that house. And hey, I got there first. He got there about an hour later, and he walked in with the suitcase and he comes in and he gives me a kiss, and we were right back where we were before. So like it was just like we didn't skip a beat. We were right back kind of to where we were when we left, when we were in love and we you know, we're you know, figuring each other out. We got to that point. So and then every visit after that and I said we had five every time it was better and better and better. We became more solid. We knew each other better, but we still hadn't dated out like in the real world. So we we you know, we dated in like a bubble. So we finally, you know, after the finale started to go you know, got to go out. We went to New York City right at the finale and spent a week there, and then he came to my home and we spent time here, met some of my friends, and you know, spent time with my family, and you know, now we just kind of we kind of moved back. We worked backwards. We got engaged.

You guys have a rhythm, And do you feel that when you have introduced him to your couple's friends or the kids, Like are they open and warm? Are they judgmental? Do you feel nervous? Do you feel uncomfort Like? How does that play out when you bringing him into your world, which was obviously a world with John for so long.

You guys have a rhythm, And do you feel that when you have introduced him to your couple's friends or the kids, Like are they open and warm? Are they judgmental? Do you feel nervous? Do you feel uncomfort Like? How does that play out when you bringing him into your world, which was obviously a world with John for so long.

Yeah, it was a little in nerve wracking, and you know, we happened our finale happened to have happened to occur right before Thanksgiving, so it was like the second week in November was willing they have had the finale, and we made plans for our families to be together for Thanksgiving. So that was really nice of him because he usually does something else with his family for Thanksgiving. And his kids said they would come, you know, to my house, which was really nice. So both his kids came to my house and they stayed here along with you know, Chalk obviously was here, and we kind of merged the families in a really kind of busy weekend where there's a lot of other family involved, and it wasn't just our two families. I have a big extended family, and I wanted to respect that. You know. It was actually most of the people that we get together with for Thanksgiving is John's family, so I didn't want to change that for my kids. Or I'm still very very very close to my mother in law, my sister, and the I mean they were part of my for like almost you know, almost my whole life.

Yeah, it was a little in nerve wracking, and you know, we happened our finale happened to have happened to occur right before Thanksgiving, so it was like the second week in November was willing they have had the finale, and we made plans for our families to be together for Thanksgiving. So that was really nice of him because he usually does something else with his family for Thanksgiving. And his kids said they would come, you know, to my house, which was really nice. So both his kids came to my house and they stayed here along with you know, Chalk obviously was here, and we kind of merged the families in a really kind of busy weekend where there's a lot of other family involved, and it wasn't just our two families. I have a big extended family, and I wanted to respect that. You know. It was actually most of the people that we get together with for Thanksgiving is John's family, so I didn't want to change that for my kids. Or I'm still very very very close to my mother in law, my sister, and the I mean they were part of my for like almost you know, almost my whole life.

She raised she raised you.

She raised she raised you.

You were kind of like she was. Yeah, I was like twenty when we met.

You were kind of like she was. Yeah, I was like twenty when we met.

So how did that?

So how did that?

How did that go? I mean, was it challenging?

How did that go? I mean, was it challenging?

Was it?

Was it?

What did that look like? It was just chaotic? Honestly, My daughter hosted it at her house and so we all went there. So we had a couple of days here and then Thanksgiving occurs and we all go over to her house and there was like forty people and it was chaotic and everybody wanted to meet Chalk and his kids, and it was exhausting, to be totally honest, it was a really really hard way to do it. We did it all at once. It's done now now everybody's met everybody. But it wasn't fun for me at all. I was nervous.

What did that look like? It was just chaotic? Honestly, My daughter hosted it at her house and so we all went there. So we had a couple of days here and then Thanksgiving occurs and we all go over to her house and there was like forty people and it was chaotic and everybody wanted to meet Chalk and his kids, and it was exhausting, to be totally honest, it was a really really hard way to do it. We did it all at once. It's done now now everybody's met everybody. But it wasn't fun for me at all. I was nervous.

I would have been nervous on edge too the whole time.

I would have been nervous on edge too the whole time.

Yeah, And we started at like three o'clock and by eight o'clock I was freaking exhausted. I just I was like, we got to go. And they felt the same way. I think we were all in bed by nine o'clock that night. We were just it was just a long, hard day. It's an emotional day also, because everybody it's like there's this big pink elephant in the like he's not John yeah, and like we all see it, so like he's now like stepping, you know, stepping into the role of being my person. And it's hard for everybody to accept that. It was hard for me to even present it. So that was an uncomfortable day. Did you debrief with your children? Did you debrief with your children afterwards? I think we've kind of had that conversation about that being you know, like a little bit of a rider day. Our kids happened to get along really well together though, so it's kind of fun. So the next day I had made plans for us to go to a local brewery, which is really fun, and they had these things they have these yurts where you can rent so which oh my god, they're so fun. And they had big, you know, fire pits. And it was in a town that I grew up in, so I know everybody there and we went there and that day was fun. That day was very social. The pressure was almost off.

Yeah, And we started at like three o'clock and by eight o'clock I was freaking exhausted. I just I was like, we got to go. And they felt the same way. I think we were all in bed by nine o'clock that night. We were just it was just a long, hard day. It's an emotional day also, because everybody it's like there's this big pink elephant in the like he's not John yeah, and like we all see it, so like he's now like stepping, you know, stepping into the role of being my person. And it's hard for everybody to accept that. It was hard for me to even present it. So that was an uncomfortable day. Did you debrief with your children? Did you debrief with your children afterwards? I think we've kind of had that conversation about that being you know, like a little bit of a rider day. Our kids happened to get along really well together though, so it's kind of fun. So the next day I had made plans for us to go to a local brewery, which is really fun, and they had these things they have these yurts where you can rent so which oh my god, they're so fun. And they had big, you know, fire pits. And it was in a town that I grew up in, so I know everybody there and we went there and that day was fun. That day was very social. The pressure was almost off.

It was like beyond do you feel that the fact that both you and Chalk have experienced grief and last part that that gave you both a deeper understanding and a comfort level which was created more of a connection.

It was like beyond do you feel that the fact that both you and Chalk have experienced grief and last part that that gave you both a deeper understanding and a comfort level which was created more of a connection.

Yeah. So I think that when you go through a loss like that, that the little things become less important and you realize that and maybe, you know, part of that is probably maturity also that just naturally that would have happened, but you look at like the small crap and it just doesn't matter because because you realize how how short life is, and you don't realize it until you like come face to face with mortality, and that doesn't happen until you know a loved one dies. If you die or a loved one dies, that's you know, that's the only time when you actually face it, like with somebody like I fit, you know, I face mortality with John and as he died, and Chalk did the same thing with Kathy. So you have a different look at life, to be honest, it's more fragile and more valuable.

Yeah. So I think that when you go through a loss like that, that the little things become less important and you realize that and maybe, you know, part of that is probably maturity also that just naturally that would have happened, but you look at like the small crap and it just doesn't matter because because you realize how how short life is, and you don't realize it until you like come face to face with mortality, and that doesn't happen until you know a loved one dies. If you die or a loved one dies, that's you know, that's the only time when you actually face it, like with somebody like I fit, you know, I face mortality with John and as he died, and Chalk did the same thing with Kathy. So you have a different look at life, to be honest, it's more fragile and more valuable.

My best friend died of cancer over the pandemic, and he has fallen in love with a widow who lost her husband suddenly in an auto accident, and their relationship is unbelievable to watch.

My best friend died of cancer over the pandemic, and he has fallen in love with a widow who lost her husband suddenly in an auto accident, and their relationship is unbelievable to watch.

Yeah. Yeah, you value life and you value like your moments so much more and easily so Joan, though.

Yeah. Yeah, you value life and you value like your moments so much more and easily so Joan, though.

I mean, it's so fun to watch you and Chock and you both have that sparkle in your eye and it just seems.

I mean, it's so fun to watch you and Chock and you both have that sparkle in your eye and it just seems.

Like you really really click.

Like you really really click.

But now that you're you know, there's no more cameras rolling all the rest and you're doing this long distance relationship, Like, what are the challenges that come with that? And how are you navigating kind of the distance and trying to figure out do we move forward?