Welcome back to I Do Far Too.

Welcome back to I Do Far Too.

It's your celebrity mentors Kelly Bensamin from the Real Housewives of New York and myself, Alexian Dapola from the Real Housewives of Miami.

It's your celebrity mentors Kelly Bensamin from the Real Housewives of New York and myself, Alexian Dapola from the Real Housewives of Miami.

Hey Kelly, Hi Alexia, how are you?

Hey Kelly, Hi Alexia, how are you?

I'm good?

I'm good?

Thank you.

Thank you.

How are you doing?

How are you doing?

I'm doing well.

I'm doing well.

This is going to be a very very interesting conversation with doctor Hilly culture.

This is going to be a very very interesting conversation with doctor Hilly culture.

I cannot wait. Yes, I ask you some questions. What are you going to ask her?

I cannot wait. Yes, I ask you some questions. What are you going to ask her?

Yes, well, I have I have so many questions.

Yes, well, I have I have so many questions.

I feel like we can do like three, four or five parts to this segment because there's so much to talk about and so much to ue wrap. But for me, it's always been like, why do women get it harder than men when it comes to dating?

I feel like we can do like three, four or five parts to this segment because there's so much to talk about and so much to ue wrap. But for me, it's always been like, why do women get it harder than men when it comes to dating?

Why is it okay for dad to.

Why is it okay for dad to.

Date whoever he wants to date, whatever age they are, doesn't matter.

Date whoever he wants to date, whatever age they are, doesn't matter.

Everything is okay.

Everything is okay.

But then the mom has like a really nice guy that she wants to day and they give it a really hard time. I have a problem with that. What do you think do you think that's a good question?

But then the mom has like a really nice guy that she wants to day and they give it a really hard time. I have a problem with that. What do you think do you think that's a good question?

That is a great question, And I know that a lot of people are going to want to know the answer.

That is a great question, And I know that a lot of people are going to want to know the answer.

Yeah, I mean, because you know, I know that there's a lot to it as well, but I always think it's just so much harder to be a woman, Kelly, Like in my next life, I just want to be a lie. I think they're having so much easier.

Yeah, I mean, because you know, I know that there's a lot to it as well, but I always think it's just so much harder to be a woman, Kelly, Like in my next life, I just want to be a lie. I think they're having so much easier.

Well, because we're the nurturers, that's why. Yeah.

Well, because we're the nurturers, that's why. Yeah.

Well I love I love being a mom and being a nurturer and so nurtures. But I always feel like the dad, you know, is like we can get away with anything, and if he has money, even more power to him. It's like he's perfect, he's great. There's nothing he does wrong as long as he provides right. So, okay, okay, doctor Hillary is here, so let's just dive right into this.

Well I love I love being a mom and being a nurturer and so nurtures. But I always feel like the dad, you know, is like we can get away with anything, and if he has money, even more power to him. It's like he's perfect, he's great. There's nothing he does wrong as long as he provides right. So, okay, okay, doctor Hillary is here, so let's just dive right into this.

Hi, doctor Hillary.

Hi, doctor Hillary.

Hi, it's so fun to be here. Thanks for having me.

Hi, it's so fun to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, so we're going to dive right into this, and we have a lot of questions for you, doctor Hillary, and I'm sure the viewers and the lists are very eager to hear what you have to say about this. So in your professional opinion, I want to know what you think. Who has it more difficult? Is it the dads that have been more difficult when it comes to dating you girls? Or do the single moms that are dating haveing more difficult? You know, as far as when the kids are involved, right, Like, who do you think has it hard or in the dating game when it comes to dating post divorce.

Yeah, so we're going to dive right into this, and we have a lot of questions for you, doctor Hillary, and I'm sure the viewers and the lists are very eager to hear what you have to say about this. So in your professional opinion, I want to know what you think. Who has it more difficult? Is it the dads that have been more difficult when it comes to dating you girls? Or do the single moms that are dating haveing more difficult? You know, as far as when the kids are involved, right, Like, who do you think has it hard or in the dating game when it comes to dating post divorce.

That's such a juicy question. There's so many levels of that question to consider, so I'll unpack it. I mean, I think, like at the top of the pyramid is intentionality, right, it sort of depends on what the dad or the mom is looking for. If you're looking for dating and casual fun, maybe men have it a bit easier for all the reasons in terms of access and the numbers of women available younger, perhaps there's more of an ease in that regard. But in terms of like trying to curate a new connection and a new relationship, I think it depends on the level of consciousness that each person brings right post divorce, the way to cultivate a successful relationship is to come with a new understanding about what you're looking for, what you'll tolerate, what you won't tolerate. I think that's heavy lifting, and in a way, women probably have more foresight and resources to go through that exercise to bring about things in their lives that resonate, and men may do less of that post divorce. And it's sort of stereotypical cliche, but I often see it. So I think it really depends on each person's emotional station in life, what kind of work they actually engage in post divorce, what kind of level of as I said, consciousness and intentionality. You mentioned the kids, So logistics around kids, there's a whole other element that's true.

That's such a juicy question. There's so many levels of that question to consider, so I'll unpack it. I mean, I think, like at the top of the pyramid is intentionality, right, it sort of depends on what the dad or the mom is looking for. If you're looking for dating and casual fun, maybe men have it a bit easier for all the reasons in terms of access and the numbers of women available younger, perhaps there's more of an ease in that regard. But in terms of like trying to curate a new connection and a new relationship, I think it depends on the level of consciousness that each person brings right post divorce, the way to cultivate a successful relationship is to come with a new understanding about what you're looking for, what you'll tolerate, what you won't tolerate. I think that's heavy lifting, and in a way, women probably have more foresight and resources to go through that exercise to bring about things in their lives that resonate, and men may do less of that post divorce. And it's sort of stereotypical cliche, but I often see it. So I think it really depends on each person's emotional station in life, what kind of work they actually engage in post divorce, what kind of level of as I said, consciousness and intentionality. You mentioned the kids, So logistics around kids, there's a whole other element that's true.

Well, I mean I find with my experience and as a woman, I feel like just in general, it's harder for the woman to date. You know, I think the kids are harder on their mom. I don't know if it's that they're being more protected or they you know, live most of the time with the mom or she has like that, you know, that mother figure role. And I just think the guys dad's have it easier, right, It's just like, you know, it's okay for like the dad to day different girls, but you know, when it comes to the mom, it's that we're judged differently. I mean that's just like my opinion and not that i've lived in. But you know, I have a lot of friends that are divorced. In our dating and and that's it, you know, That's what they've shared with me.

Well, I mean I find with my experience and as a woman, I feel like just in general, it's harder for the woman to date. You know, I think the kids are harder on their mom. I don't know if it's that they're being more protected or they you know, live most of the time with the mom or she has like that, you know, that mother figure role. And I just think the guys dad's have it easier, right, It's just like, you know, it's okay for like the dad to day different girls, but you know, when it comes to the mom, it's that we're judged differently. I mean that's just like my opinion and not that i've lived in. But you know, I have a lot of friends that are divorced. In our dating and and that's it, you know, That's what they've shared with me.

I think too, Alexi.

I think too, Alexi.

It's also you know, it's I love that Hillary is talking about Doctor Halley's talking about all the work and and that is so important.

It's also you know, it's I love that Hillary is talking about Doctor Halley's talking about all the work and and that is so important.

Uh. I think for children too, just from like seeing my.

Uh. I think for children too, just from like seeing my.

Kids, they're you know a lot of children gravitate towards the parent who basically is either they're blaming the parent that is the one that's the nurturer, and they're celebrating.

Kids, they're you know a lot of children gravitate towards the parent who basically is either they're blaming the parent that is the one that's the nurturer, and they're celebrating.

The one that has the money.

The one that has the money.

And so like I think, you know, typically the generalization, like doctor Hillary said, is that you know a lot of men, you know, have Wednesdays and Saturdays and the women have you know, the majority of the time with the children.

And so like I think, you know, typically the generalization, like doctor Hillary said, is that you know a lot of men, you know, have Wednesdays and Saturdays and the women have you know, the majority of the time with the children.

And so it's just natural.

And so it's just natural.

That you know, when you reliant on a parent, whether they're the father or the mother, that person, that parent is going to be the one that's not going to get you know, the love. And you know, I know for my own self, I mean I didn't have there was no Wednesdays, there were no saturdays, there were no vacations. It was I had a full custody of my children, which I asked for just because I thought it was the best scenario for my children, and.

That you know, when you reliant on a parent, whether they're the father or the mother, that person, that parent is going to be the one that's not going to get you know, the love. And you know, I know for my own self, I mean I didn't have there was no Wednesdays, there were no saturdays, there were no vacations. It was I had a full custody of my children, which I asked for just because I thought it was the best scenario for my children, and.

It was really different.

It was really different.

I mean, my children are older now, but when they were younger, it was very, very difficult because I did not want to bring them into a situation where they were like, who is this person?

I mean, my children are older now, but when they were younger, it was very, very difficult because I did not want to bring them into a situation where they were like, who is this person?

Are you my daddy?

Are you my daddy?

You know, it's like oh that little book like are you my daddy? Are you my daddy?

You know, it's like oh that little book like are you my daddy? Are you my daddy?

Uh?

Uh?

And so, And I didn't want my children to feel like that as well, like they needed to find a dad.

And so, And I didn't want my children to feel like that as well, like they needed to find a dad.

That's not what I wanted.

That's not what I wanted.

And even now my kids are, they're really looking for a partner. So it's like the three of us, we're like we're a trifecta. And there I mean sometimes I'm like, oh.

And even now my kids are, they're really looking for a partner. So it's like the three of us, we're like we're a trifecta. And there I mean sometimes I'm like, oh.

My god, like the people that they like versus the purple that I like.

My god, like the people that they like versus the purple that I like.

You know, it's like it's it's like very stressful because they're like, this is the person for you.

You know, it's like it's it's like very stressful because they're like, this is the person for you.

And I'm like, are you sure?

And I'm like, are you sure?

That's a great question. So should we have our children picking our partners?

That's a great question. So should we have our children picking our partners?

Doctor Hillary? Should we That's a great question, Alexi?

Doctor Hillary? Should we That's a great question, Alexi?

Yeah, fine, I mean we want our children's approval, of course, you know, because there are lives and there's such a big part of our life and we want to blend us families who want, you know, everybody to be happy and get along. But is that even a good idea, right, because at the end of the day, we don't really have a say in our children's relationships. And our children grow up and they make their choices and they you know, choose and select their partners, and you know, they want our blessing too, right, we want to like them also and approve of them, but at the end of the day, it just really, you know, it has to do with you.

Yeah, fine, I mean we want our children's approval, of course, you know, because there are lives and there's such a big part of our life and we want to blend us families who want, you know, everybody to be happy and get along. But is that even a good idea, right, because at the end of the day, we don't really have a say in our children's relationships. And our children grow up and they make their choices and they you know, choose and select their partners, and you know, they want our blessing too, right, we want to like them also and approve of them, but at the end of the day, it just really, you know, it has to do with you.

I don't think we should give our children that power.

I don't think we should give our children that power.

I do think we need to validate their emotions and their feelings and respect their boundaries and all that. But it's really the person that makes you happy, and whatever they think they make you happy is really not what you're searching for what you need.

I do think we need to validate their emotions and their feelings and respect their boundaries and all that. But it's really the person that makes you happy, and whatever they think they make you happy is really not what you're searching for what you need.

There's like the old old adage about how other people's see other people seeing in and you know it's like they're you know, it's like they always they say something like, you know, people are blind, but the neighbors ain't.

There's like the old old adage about how other people's see other people seeing in and you know it's like they're you know, it's like they always they say something like, you know, people are blind, but the neighbors ain't.

Like the neighbors are not blind. And sometimes our kids they have different interests because maybe like for example, they might like like a man who has more money, so that then they see that the man is showering you know, us with money, and maybe that that they're like that helps them feel more comfortable. But you know, friends and family, they see when the person is the wrong person.

Like the neighbors are not blind. And sometimes our kids they have different interests because maybe like for example, they might like like a man who has more money, so that then they see that the man is showering you know, us with money, and maybe that that they're like that helps them feel more comfortable. But you know, friends and family, they see when the person is the wrong person.

Doctor Hally, what do you think about that?

Doctor Hally, what do you think about that?

Well, yeah, the red flags for sure.

Well, yeah, the red flags for sure.

Yeah, they do know that absolutely.

Yeah, they do know that absolutely.

So there's actually a clear answer to this, which is no, and I'll walk through why. But that doesn't mean that the children aren't involved in the process of sort of curating and extended dynamic with a partner that you're going to introduce into your life. There should be a real deliberateness about how you facilitate that. But in terms of picking a partner, what I'm about to say is really critical, which is kids don't ultimately want that responsibility. They may tell you they do, they may try to embody it, but kids don't feel good when they have quote too much power over their parents. They don't want to run the show. If we ask them, they're going to probably say the office it. But later when they end up in my office in like twenty years, they're going to talk about the dynamic of feeling like they had too much say in their family system. It doesn't feel good. That feels disregulating. So setting the boundary of like, hey, this is this is kind of mom's journey, and like I will sort of date and get to know people that I feel appropriate. I will make mistakes, I will make connections, and like, when it's appropriate, I'll bring you in and I'll ask your opinion about how and about when and how often. And it's then that if kids have feedback about like I really think he's amazing for these reasons, they're like, I'm kind of seeing something that makes me uncomfortable. That's a fair dialogue to have with kids. But we don't want to put kids in a position to feel responsible. It's like it's too much heavy lifting.

So there's actually a clear answer to this, which is no, and I'll walk through why. But that doesn't mean that the children aren't involved in the process of sort of curating and extended dynamic with a partner that you're going to introduce into your life. There should be a real deliberateness about how you facilitate that. But in terms of picking a partner, what I'm about to say is really critical, which is kids don't ultimately want that responsibility. They may tell you they do, they may try to embody it, but kids don't feel good when they have quote too much power over their parents. They don't want to run the show. If we ask them, they're going to probably say the office it. But later when they end up in my office in like twenty years, they're going to talk about the dynamic of feeling like they had too much say in their family system. It doesn't feel good. That feels disregulating. So setting the boundary of like, hey, this is this is kind of mom's journey, and like I will sort of date and get to know people that I feel appropriate. I will make mistakes, I will make connections, and like, when it's appropriate, I'll bring you in and I'll ask your opinion about how and about when and how often. And it's then that if kids have feedback about like I really think he's amazing for these reasons, they're like, I'm kind of seeing something that makes me uncomfortable. That's a fair dialogue to have with kids. But we don't want to put kids in a position to feel responsible. It's like it's too much heavy lifting.

That's another interesting point.

That's another interesting point.

So if we and I agree with that, I agree that, you know, I mean I have respect for my children's opinions, but I don't, you know, make decisions based on their thoughts. I mean, they're still even though they're twenty four and twenty six, they are still my children.

So if we and I agree with that, I agree that, you know, I mean I have respect for my children's opinions, but I don't, you know, make decisions based on their thoughts. I mean, they're still even though they're twenty four and twenty six, they are still my children.

So I agree with that.

So I agree with that.

But what about when you're in the dynamic of like blending the family, Because like when you're you know, I'm fifty six years old, obviously there's going to be a lot of men in the pool that I'm looking at who have children, and what are your thoughts when like all of the kids are kind of like at each other's throats, and you know, like.

But what about when you're in the dynamic of like blending the family, Because like when you're you know, I'm fifty six years old, obviously there's going to be a lot of men in the pool that I'm looking at who have children, and what are your thoughts when like all of the kids are kind of like at each other's throats, and you know, like.

How do like what are your thoughts on that?

How do like what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's such a good question, and there's no like formula to make it go perfectly, but at least try to be in mind you slow, deliberate and sort of curated about it. I would have an upfront discussion about it, like I was just alluding to earlier that like, this person's important to me, even if your kiddos are twenty six and twenty four, you know, even if they're clearly adults, and particularly when they're kiddos, But either way, I would sit down and sort of be like, like, this is going to happen. This person has become important to me, and I want him to know you, and I want you to know him. And he has kids in the mix, and I want you all to know each other. I want there to be some version of community.

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's such a good question, and there's no like formula to make it go perfectly, but at least try to be in mind you slow, deliberate and sort of curated about it. I would have an upfront discussion about it, like I was just alluding to earlier that like, this person's important to me, even if your kiddos are twenty six and twenty four, you know, even if they're clearly adults, and particularly when they're kiddos, But either way, I would sit down and sort of be like, like, this is going to happen. This person has become important to me, and I want him to know you, and I want you to know him. And he has kids in the mix, and I want you all to know each other. I want there to be some version of community.

I appreciate that, yeah, and I think you should go slow.

I appreciate that, yeah, and I think you should go slow.

Also, I feel like the biggest problem with a lot of relationships women and men is that they introduce their so called new love or boyfriend or girlfriend too sue to the kids. And sometimes the kids don't really need to be involved so soon in the relationship. So that's advice I could give, right to just go slow.

Also, I feel like the biggest problem with a lot of relationships women and men is that they introduce their so called new love or boyfriend or girlfriend too sue to the kids. And sometimes the kids don't really need to be involved so soon in the relationship. So that's advice I could give, right to just go slow.

Alexia is absolutely right, even though we women or the guy might be really excited and should envision this community and you know sort of familial feel which is sort of really an exciting notion that's post divorced and you start imagining like some other paradigm that feels really healing and lovely. But kids don't need to be involved at the beginning. I mean, there's no particular time frame that I would adhere to per se, but like I wouldn't get into it for at least six months, is my opinion.

Alexia is absolutely right, even though we women or the guy might be really excited and should envision this community and you know sort of familial feel which is sort of really an exciting notion that's post divorced and you start imagining like some other paradigm that feels really healing and lovely. But kids don't need to be involved at the beginning. I mean, there's no particular time frame that I would adhere to per se, but like I wouldn't get into it for at least six months, is my opinion.

What happens when you like the kids more than your partner.

What happens when you like the kids more than your partner.

That's eppened to me, Like I love the kids, and I was like, he's awful, but they're amazing.

That's eppened to me, Like I love the kids, and I was like, he's awful, but they're amazing.

A sign to consider exiting, Yeah, yeah, right, awful.

A sign to consider exiting, Yeah, yeah, right, awful.

And you know it's like I feel like I'm like, oh, my kids. There's one French friend, a guy that I dated, and he had kids who are just were adorable. And my kids still really really liked his kids, and but he's just awful. So it's like, you know, that is just terrible too, because I mean, you know, for someone like me like I have since day one, the reason that I got divorced, the fundamental reason outside of like other things, but the fundamental reason is because I wanted a family for my family, and I did not know my ex husband was not He was a you know, he's an incredible creative, but in terms of being like a father figure and creating a dynamic family, he just that wasn't that.

And you know it's like I feel like I'm like, oh, my kids. There's one French friend, a guy that I dated, and he had kids who are just were adorable. And my kids still really really liked his kids, and but he's just awful. So it's like, you know, that is just terrible too, because I mean, you know, for someone like me like I have since day one, the reason that I got divorced, the fundamental reason outside of like other things, but the fundamental reason is because I wanted a family for my family, and I did not know my ex husband was not He was a you know, he's an incredible creative, but in terms of being like a father figure and creating a dynamic family, he just that wasn't that.

He just didn't have that tool in his tool.

He just didn't have that tool in his tool.

About just wasn't there, And so I was just I've been constantly on the search.

About just wasn't there, And so I was just I've been constantly on the search.

For fit.

For fit.

Literally now it's fifteen almost fifteen years for just a good human I can tell.

Literally now it's fifteen almost fifteen years for just a good human I can tell.

Where are they?

Where are they?

Well, I mean you're bringing up something that's sort of tangential to what we were just talking about, which is that not for every woman, but for many women, that sort of primitive edict for connection and family and community and you being in search of that is completely lovely and appropriate and can be blinding. When you're getting to know someone, there's an apparent opportunity to build that community, and we can like fill in the lengths to make it okay for what we wanted to be without being clear about what's actually happening. And so even though you have that interest of curating that community and that sort of family system, and you know, I said before six months, whatever the number, is trying to be slow and deliberate and intentional having those kind of conversations with your kids beforehand, and to kind of get back to the point you guys brought up if and when things aren't going well, you know, the kids don't get along or they're not interested in connecting, like deeply validating it. I totally get it, Like this is fun for me, but like doesn't feel that fun for you? Makes sense to me. This isn't your family, This isn't you know, these aren't your siblings, this isn't a step parent, and you're not invested Like I am, totally what's something that we can broker that feels okay to you? You know? Can we spend a couple of hours once a week, right being able to respect our kids' perspective. I mean some of this depends on age. We can get into the nuance of that, but respecting what it feels like as a kid to be introduced to this new paradigm of people. For you, you have compelled exciting feelings for kids, they have natural resistance.

Well, I mean you're bringing up something that's sort of tangential to what we were just talking about, which is that not for every woman, but for many women, that sort of primitive edict for connection and family and community and you being in search of that is completely lovely and appropriate and can be blinding. When you're getting to know someone, there's an apparent opportunity to build that community, and we can like fill in the lengths to make it okay for what we wanted to be without being clear about what's actually happening. And so even though you have that interest of curating that community and that sort of family system, and you know, I said before six months, whatever the number, is trying to be slow and deliberate and intentional having those kind of conversations with your kids beforehand, and to kind of get back to the point you guys brought up if and when things aren't going well, you know, the kids don't get along or they're not interested in connecting, like deeply validating it. I totally get it, Like this is fun for me, but like doesn't feel that fun for you? Makes sense to me. This isn't your family, This isn't you know, these aren't your siblings, this isn't a step parent, and you're not invested Like I am, totally what's something that we can broker that feels okay to you? You know? Can we spend a couple of hours once a week, right being able to respect our kids' perspective. I mean some of this depends on age. We can get into the nuance of that, but respecting what it feels like as a kid to be introduced to this new paradigm of people. For you, you have compelled exciting feelings for kids, they have natural resistance.

Yeah, I think it's also some for me. My kids really want me to meet someone. They want me to meet someone special, not just anyone. They really want me to have that you know, relationship. They know that I've looked, I've been looking for that. They know it's something that I've always wanted and I just never you know, found it.

Yeah, I think it's also some for me. My kids really want me to meet someone. They want me to meet someone special, not just anyone. They really want me to have that you know, relationship. They know that I've looked, I've been looking for that. They know it's something that I've always wanted and I just never you know, found it.

And it's interesting.

And it's interesting.

I was on a call with one of my clients the other day and he was like, you didn't get the memo Kelly of like dating the rich man? Like, no, I'm sorry, I just didn't get that memo, all.

I was on a call with one of my clients the other day and he was like, you didn't get the memo Kelly of like dating the rich man? Like, no, I'm sorry, I just didn't get that memo, all.

Right, miss that one. Miss that memo.

Right, miss that one. Miss that memo.

Sorry.

Sorry.

And I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a real connection. What about you, Alexey, what are your thoughts.

And I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a real connection. What about you, Alexey, what are your thoughts.

I think it's going to be easier for you now that your daughters are older. I think it's harder when they're teenagers, you know, especially for girls that they're permonal and they're going through their periods, and you know, it also depends on the you know, parenting styles, you know, like, for example, if you're dating somebody that has children and his parent and style is different from yours, it's really difficult to blend families.

I think it's going to be easier for you now that your daughters are older. I think it's harder when they're teenagers, you know, especially for girls that they're permonal and they're going through their periods, and you know, it also depends on the you know, parenting styles, you know, like, for example, if you're dating somebody that has children and his parent and style is different from yours, it's really difficult to blend families.

I'm not gonna lie. I've been through it two.

I'm not gonna lie. I've been through it two.

Times already, and I want to say that I haven't really succeeded because you need both sides. You need everybody needs to be involved, right like your current partner, his ex wife, his children, yourself, your children. It's really really hard. Like back in the day, for example, my mom was divorced five times, so I had different men in my life, right, But my mom always had it very clear and would tell the men, these are my children, and we were three brothers and sisters, and you have no say in the way I bring up my children or in anything. So I really never saw them as a stepfather or as a father figure or anything like that. Because I had my father. I was fortunate enough to have my father involved in my life. So it was always like my mom's boyfriend or my mom's man, but it was never really involved in my life. Back in the day, and this was obviously many years ago. Well, we didn't have all this information and awareness and all this kind of stuff. Even though my mom was a psychiatrist and she was a very smart woman and she that's how it works for her. It was like, these are my children, and we lived with my mom, so it was my mom's rules, and she never allowed her partner to have any say in any decision making in our lives. And you know what, it works for her. So it's something that's very personal. You know, we can have I do part one, two, three, four or five. We can talk about the subjects forever because it's so complex and there's so much too unpack, and it depends on the children also, Like give you're the new spouse that comes in and you partner, whether you were a cause of the divorce, you know, the children are going to have resentment and they're not gonna you know, welcome the person into their lives and you can't even blame you know, the child in a way. So it's just very very complex, you know. But for you, Kelly, I think it's way easier now because your daughters are older. You have a beautiful relationship with them. They're mature, you know, they want you know, our children learn from us, So you're I'm sure your daughters are going to choose really well, you know, because they had a really good example and they probably want for you what they want for them. And what's going to make you happier than having your daughters marry forever? Right and find that man and you're gonna find them too. You know, he's he's out there. You just have to put yourself out there and be open to it. And you know, don't involve your daughter so much, Kelly. They're already adults. You know, they're going to figure it out. They're going to have their relationships, and they're gonna make their mistakes too, even though I know we want to save our children and not make the mistakes, but they have to go through it to and learn from it.

Times already, and I want to say that I haven't really succeeded because you need both sides. You need everybody needs to be involved, right like your current partner, his ex wife, his children, yourself, your children. It's really really hard. Like back in the day, for example, my mom was divorced five times, so I had different men in my life, right, But my mom always had it very clear and would tell the men, these are my children, and we were three brothers and sisters, and you have no say in the way I bring up my children or in anything. So I really never saw them as a stepfather or as a father figure or anything like that. Because I had my father. I was fortunate enough to have my father involved in my life. So it was always like my mom's boyfriend or my mom's man, but it was never really involved in my life. Back in the day, and this was obviously many years ago. Well, we didn't have all this information and awareness and all this kind of stuff. Even though my mom was a psychiatrist and she was a very smart woman and she that's how it works for her. It was like, these are my children, and we lived with my mom, so it was my mom's rules, and she never allowed her partner to have any say in any decision making in our lives. And you know what, it works for her. So it's something that's very personal. You know, we can have I do part one, two, three, four or five. We can talk about the subjects forever because it's so complex and there's so much too unpack, and it depends on the children also, Like give you're the new spouse that comes in and you partner, whether you were a cause of the divorce, you know, the children are going to have resentment and they're not gonna you know, welcome the person into their lives and you can't even blame you know, the child in a way. So it's just very very complex, you know. But for you, Kelly, I think it's way easier now because your daughters are older. You have a beautiful relationship with them. They're mature, you know, they want you know, our children learn from us, So you're I'm sure your daughters are going to choose really well, you know, because they had a really good example and they probably want for you what they want for them. And what's going to make you happier than having your daughters marry forever? Right and find that man and you're gonna find them too. You know, he's he's out there. You just have to put yourself out there and be open to it. And you know, don't involve your daughter so much, Kelly. They're already adults. You know, they're going to figure it out. They're going to have their relationships, and they're gonna make their mistakes too, even though I know we want to save our children and not make the mistakes, but they have to go through it to and learn from it.

I mean, I love my girls like I literally would do absolutely anything for them, and I've proven that.

I mean, I love my girls like I literally would do absolutely anything for them, and I've proven that.

We'll both basically mom, we have amazing kids. But what happens is that, you know, I'm also in my fifties. Your children grow up and you know, and they they make their lives and they do and that's what you want them to do. It It's hard for me too because I'm super overprotective and you know my situation, but you know, it would be selfish with me, you know, not to do that, and we have to look up for ourselves and what makes us happy. And obviously you're at a different stage in your life than your daughters are just beginning. And like I said, I'm sure that they're gonna pick that guy, the guy that they would probably want you to be with, right, but that's what they want. So that's the person they're going to choose. And you're going to pick whoever, you know, whoever's going to make you happy and checks off the boxes and you're going to have, you know, that compatibility and whatever it is you know that you're looking for. But I've learned that we need to leave our children out of it. I mean, it depends on the time because like the doctor Hillary said, they don't have the capacity.

We'll both basically mom, we have amazing kids. But what happens is that, you know, I'm also in my fifties. Your children grow up and you know, and they they make their lives and they do and that's what you want them to do. It It's hard for me too because I'm super overprotective and you know my situation, but you know, it would be selfish with me, you know, not to do that, and we have to look up for ourselves and what makes us happy. And obviously you're at a different stage in your life than your daughters are just beginning. And like I said, I'm sure that they're gonna pick that guy, the guy that they would probably want you to be with, right, but that's what they want. So that's the person they're going to choose. And you're going to pick whoever, you know, whoever's going to make you happy and checks off the boxes and you're going to have, you know, that compatibility and whatever it is you know that you're looking for. But I've learned that we need to leave our children out of it. I mean, it depends on the time because like the doctor Hillary said, they don't have the capacity.

We can't give them that responsibility.

We can't give them that responsibility.

That's like a hard job.

That's like a hard job.

But then if it doesn't work out, I.

But then if it doesn't work out, I.

Mean, they're already going through children with divorce, parents already have their own trauma and you know, their own things, So we're just adding more pressure to them. So and you know, I've made that mistake. That's why we hear talking about it because you know, sometimes you know, we you know, we do have to listen to them obviously and validate their feelings and emotions. But at the end of the day, we're the adults.

Mean, they're already going through children with divorce, parents already have their own trauma and you know, their own things, So we're just adding more pressure to them. So and you know, I've made that mistake. That's why we hear talking about it because you know, sometimes you know, we you know, we do have to listen to them obviously and validate their feelings and emotions. But at the end of the day, we're the adults.

We're the ones that have to make that decision, not let make it.

We're the ones that have to make that decision, not let make it.

I mean, doctor Hurley, I don't know if you know this, but I called off my wedding four days before I was supposed to get married. And one of them there were many reasons why I called off the wedding, but one of the biggest reasons was because my children were just not happy and I we had gone away on vacation and they just were so miserable, and I just was like, this is not what I want in my life, Like I do not want to live my life with my children being miserable. Like I just don't want that.

I mean, doctor Hurley, I don't know if you know this, but I called off my wedding four days before I was supposed to get married. And one of them there were many reasons why I called off the wedding, but one of the biggest reasons was because my children were just not happy and I we had gone away on vacation and they just were so miserable, and I just was like, this is not what I want in my life, Like I do not want to live my life with my children being miserable. Like I just don't want that.

What are your.

What are your.

Thoughts on What are your thoughts on on what I did?

Thoughts on What are your thoughts on on what I did?

Wow, that's that's a power move. But look, I understand, uh, to make such an enormous decision in your life and to have your kids vocally and viscerally unhappy is and almost impossible combination, right, And you know, we're talking about a subset of what we were originally talking about, which is the notion of sure not letting our kiddos pick our partner, but once a partner is in our lives, understanding their impact on our family system is really really important. So of course I don't know the details, and I imagine you'll have to tell me, but some of the discomfort that was coming up for them must have bumped up against some of your pre existing unconscious discomfort if you eventually made that decision.

Wow, that's that's a power move. But look, I understand, uh, to make such an enormous decision in your life and to have your kids vocally and viscerally unhappy is and almost impossible combination, right, And you know, we're talking about a subset of what we were originally talking about, which is the notion of sure not letting our kiddos pick our partner, but once a partner is in our lives, understanding their impact on our family system is really really important. So of course I don't know the details, and I imagine you'll have to tell me, but some of the discomfort that was coming up for them must have bumped up against some of your pre existing unconscious discomfort if you eventually made that decision.

Oh, it was conscious. It was definitely not consciousness.

Oh, it was conscious. It was definitely not consciousness.

Yes, I was going to ask you talk to Hilary's one that situation, like what do you do? Like, let's say, like your children are not comfortable with the new person in your life and you're about to get married and whatnot, So what do you do?

Yes, I was going to ask you talk to Hilary's one that situation, like what do you do? Like, let's say, like your children are not comfortable with the new person in your life and you're about to get married and whatnot, So what do you do?

Like as a mom, right, what do you do? Do you go ahead with it? Do you try to do like a family meeting?

Like as a mom, right, what do you do? Do you go ahead with it? Do you try to do like a family meeting?

Right?

Right?

And like some interventions, some therapy. I don't know what is it that we can do?

And like some interventions, some therapy. I don't know what is it that we can do?

Look, I think I mean, notwithstanding the four days before part of.

Look, I think I mean, notwithstanding the four days before part of.

It that was pretty baldy Kelly, thanks Alexia.

It that was pretty baldy Kelly, thanks Alexia.

I was like, this is not happening.

I was like, this is not happening.

You know, you have to go buy your gut, and that's what you did.

You know, you have to go buy your gut, and that's what you did.

Paradoxically, I would lean way in, meaning I would open up a lot of space for their thoughts and feedback. It doesn't mean you have to take their advice sort of follow their line of thinking, but I would be like, I'm curious, tell me more your opinion, your feeling, your mindset matters to me greatly, Like I want to hear everything. I would just invite the feedback and the dialogue just between you and them, and then you have some work to do, right, I mean, in Kelly, it sounds like in your case it was clearly bumping up, intersecting with existing concerns that you had, right and so in this case, and you'll have to tell me if I'm right, but in this case there were a bit of like truth tellers, things that you were already thinking about consciously or unconsciously. And so if that's true, that's one scenario, you know where it's sort of like, wow, I haven't wanted to look at these things and face these things. But it's still important even if that's the scenario we're talking about, to make that decision by yourself, to do the work, to do the analysis, to talk to trusted others, a therapist, a mentor, et cetera, to think about what are your deal breakers, what are your non negotiables, What are the dynamics that work for you, and what are the dynamics that don't. And obviously dynamics related to our children are going to be included in that analysis. There are often scenarios where our kids are just resistant.

Paradoxically, I would lean way in, meaning I would open up a lot of space for their thoughts and feedback. It doesn't mean you have to take their advice sort of follow their line of thinking, but I would be like, I'm curious, tell me more your opinion, your feeling, your mindset matters to me greatly, Like I want to hear everything. I would just invite the feedback and the dialogue just between you and them, and then you have some work to do, right, I mean, in Kelly, it sounds like in your case it was clearly bumping up, intersecting with existing concerns that you had, right and so in this case, and you'll have to tell me if I'm right, but in this case there were a bit of like truth tellers, things that you were already thinking about consciously or unconsciously. And so if that's true, that's one scenario, you know where it's sort of like, wow, I haven't wanted to look at these things and face these things. But it's still important even if that's the scenario we're talking about, to make that decision by yourself, to do the work, to do the analysis, to talk to trusted others, a therapist, a mentor, et cetera, to think about what are your deal breakers, what are your non negotiables, What are the dynamics that work for you, and what are the dynamics that don't. And obviously dynamics related to our children are going to be included in that analysis. There are often scenarios where our kids are just resistant.

Yeah, I was going to say that too.

Yeah, I was going to say that too.

Absolutely, they don't want to quote lose us to someone else, right, And so reticence is more rooted in their own understandable trauma about yourself and now being replaced or their dad being replaced or both.

Absolutely, they don't want to quote lose us to someone else, right, And so reticence is more rooted in their own understandable trauma about yourself and now being replaced or their dad being replaced or both.

And those are also really valid feelings.

And those are also really valid feelings.

So yeah, to nameless.

So yeah, to nameless.

Feelings and honor those and validate them, but still reserve the right and model for them that you're going to make your own decision if this person in this relationship resonates with you. I mean, it's much more complicated in terms of what it would look like playing out, But that's sort of the headlines, right.

Feelings and honor those and validate them, but still reserve the right and model for them that you're going to make your own decision if this person in this relationship resonates with you. I mean, it's much more complicated in terms of what it would look like playing out, But that's sort of the headlines, right.

No, I appreciate that.

No, I appreciate that.

I love that you said that, doctor Hillary, because that's that's how I think now. I didn't know that that years ago, but what I've learned through my life lessons, I feel the same about what you've heard right now, h and I had, so my second husband, her man had two adult children. Went about children because I always consider them children. But they were already like over eighteen. One was about to turn eighteen, and you know, they resisted for the wrong reasons, you know.

I love that you said that, doctor Hillary, because that's that's how I think now. I didn't know that that years ago, but what I've learned through my life lessons, I feel the same about what you've heard right now, h and I had, so my second husband, her man had two adult children. Went about children because I always consider them children. But they were already like over eighteen. One was about to turn eighteen, and you know, they resisted for the wrong reasons, you know.

But he always had it very clear.

But he always had it very clear.

He said, listen, you know, she's not trying to be your mom or your stepmom, but you have to respect her. And she's your friend, and she's just gonna have that friendal you know. And she's my wife and she's who I love, and this is what it's going to be, and you need to respect that.

He said, listen, you know, she's not trying to be your mom or your stepmom, but you have to respect her. And she's your friend, and she's just gonna have that friendal you know. And she's my wife and she's who I love, and this is what it's going to be, and you need to respect that.

When you.

When you.

Know, when you're ready to go with your life and select your woman and marry her, I will respect that as well.

Know, when you're ready to go with your life and select your woman and marry her, I will respect that as well.

I'm going to make that decision. So you never really know. And I honestly I was not the cause of their divorce. I was nothing.

I'm going to make that decision. So you never really know. And I honestly I was not the cause of their divorce. I was nothing.

I meant years later, but they still held on to that resentment and so that resists.

I meant years later, but they still held on to that resentment and so that resists.

And they never wanted to see their father happy. That's really what it is.

And they never wanted to see their father happy. That's really what it is.

And they waited to that passed a wedding to tell me, f you like, literally we were just buried him, and that was the first thing they did.

And they waited to that passed a wedding to tell me, f you like, literally we were just buried him, and that was the first thing they did.

So all of that resentment and can you imagine, Kelly.

So all of that resentment and can you imagine, Kelly.

No, I cannot. I'm so sorry. It's awful, I know.

No, I cannot. I'm so sorry. It's awful, I know.

So at my wedding with him, my friend my friends that were there said, Alexa, we never told you, but his sons were crying at the wedding, and they weren't crying out of joy. They were crying out of anger that he married you. They were so upset that he hadn't be like why, Like, all I did was trying to make the other happy. And that's how it is in every relationship, right. It wasn't like, I don't know till today why those kids, you know, disliked me so much, because you know, all I did was like, you know, be a good wife, be a good like mother, role, accept them into my life, give them love and respect. I mean, that's how it was. I even worked with them. So it was really really difficult for me. So for me when I married Todd, I said, he had two daughters. I said, you know what, I'm going to have zero involvement because I was so hurt with you know, with Hermit's kids that I said to myself, you know, I'm not going to set myself up for that pain again. You know, to like raise these girls to like be you know, so close to them and love them so much, and then God forbid it doesn't work out, and then you know they're like, hey, like you know, I was protecting myself. So it's really really difficult.

So at my wedding with him, my friend my friends that were there said, Alexa, we never told you, but his sons were crying at the wedding, and they weren't crying out of joy. They were crying out of anger that he married you. They were so upset that he hadn't be like why, Like, all I did was trying to make the other happy. And that's how it is in every relationship, right. It wasn't like, I don't know till today why those kids, you know, disliked me so much, because you know, all I did was like, you know, be a good wife, be a good like mother, role, accept them into my life, give them love and respect. I mean, that's how it was. I even worked with them. So it was really really difficult for me. So for me when I married Todd, I said, he had two daughters. I said, you know what, I'm going to have zero involvement because I was so hurt with you know, with Hermit's kids that I said to myself, you know, I'm not going to set myself up for that pain again. You know, to like raise these girls to like be you know, so close to them and love them so much, and then God forbid it doesn't work out, and then you know they're like, hey, like you know, I was protecting myself. So it's really really difficult.

That's all I can tell you. I mean, it's you know, my mom would say, you can get married and divorced as many times as.

That's all I can tell you. I mean, it's you know, my mom would say, you can get married and divorced as many times as.

You want, but only have you can't have children because the children are the ones that are affected. And then that's when it comes to blending families. Like you know, the responsibility really falls on the parents. You know, it's up to them. They have to put all their differences aside and say, you know what, we want our kids to come out healthy, you know, mentally, so we need to do this for them. Forget about what happened between you and I, and you have to like, you know, parent the right way, and you know, and it's hard.

You want, but only have you can't have children because the children are the ones that are affected. And then that's when it comes to blending families. Like you know, the responsibility really falls on the parents. You know, it's up to them. They have to put all their differences aside and say, you know what, we want our kids to come out healthy, you know, mentally, so we need to do this for them. Forget about what happened between you and I, and you have to like, you know, parent the right way, and you know, and it's hard.

It's hard to do it. It's easy to say, but I know it's very hard to do it.

It's hard to do it. It's easy to say, but I know it's very hard to do it.

You know.

You know.

I think one of the things that divorce parents underestimate and stay with me because this will tie back to what you're saying, is the extended trauma of divorce on kids. We choose to get a divorce or a divorce happens to us, and then we get to move on with our lives. We process that, we grieve, we have trauma, et cetera. But we get to curate new relationships, new partnerships, sometimes new marriages. This is a lifelong thing for kids right there. Many of them are going back and forth between houses and have to deal with new partners in and out of their lives, and aren't naturally organically interested sometimes in forming relationships with new partners. And when you think about it objectively, that that makes sense. I mean, it's important to the people and the partnership, but not always important to the children. That doesn't mean we don't try to curate something that's cohesive and courteous and polite. But I think what we miss is an opportunity to like, deeply validate the experience of the kids, even if they're adults that like some version of like. I get that this isn't fun. I get that you might have resistance to this. I get that you might even feel angry about this. You might even still have feelings of upset that we're divorced in the first place. Even if it happened fifteen years ago. It's an I see adult children in my practice meeting people who are thirty, forty, fifty sixty, who obviously are adults, but we're children of divorce that are still processing the impact of it. Even if they're adults, bringing in a new partner can be triggering to their original trauma and they're sort of ongoing trauma and processing of it. So while Alexi, I'm not saying that means people should not get into new relationships and formulate a new community, but there is a way to narrate those truths that make the new partner more accessible and digestible to our adult kids. And I think a lot of parents, because it's so awkward and painful to acknowledge those truths or to acknowledge that the kids might be either neutral or not into it, don't have those kind of discussions that sort of lay better groundwork to bring in new people.

I think one of the things that divorce parents underestimate and stay with me because this will tie back to what you're saying, is the extended trauma of divorce on kids. We choose to get a divorce or a divorce happens to us, and then we get to move on with our lives. We process that, we grieve, we have trauma, et cetera. But we get to curate new relationships, new partnerships, sometimes new marriages. This is a lifelong thing for kids right there. Many of them are going back and forth between houses and have to deal with new partners in and out of their lives, and aren't naturally organically interested sometimes in forming relationships with new partners. And when you think about it objectively, that that makes sense. I mean, it's important to the people and the partnership, but not always important to the children. That doesn't mean we don't try to curate something that's cohesive and courteous and polite. But I think what we miss is an opportunity to like, deeply validate the experience of the kids, even if they're adults that like some version of like. I get that this isn't fun. I get that you might have resistance to this. I get that you might even feel angry about this. You might even still have feelings of upset that we're divorced in the first place. Even if it happened fifteen years ago. It's an I see adult children in my practice meeting people who are thirty, forty, fifty sixty, who obviously are adults, but we're children of divorce that are still processing the impact of it. Even if they're adults, bringing in a new partner can be triggering to their original trauma and they're sort of ongoing trauma and processing of it. So while Alexi, I'm not saying that means people should not get into new relationships and formulate a new community, but there is a way to narrate those truths that make the new partner more accessible and digestible to our adult kids. And I think a lot of parents, because it's so awkward and painful to acknowledge those truths or to acknowledge that the kids might be either neutral or not into it, don't have those kind of discussions that sort of lay better groundwork to bring in new people.

I mean, one thing I think was like the good thing that I did when my when I got divorced from my from my only ex husband, is that I never spoke badly about their dad. You know, whether he was available, unavailable, whatever.

I mean, one thing I think was like the good thing that I did when my when I got divorced from my from my only ex husband, is that I never spoke badly about their dad. You know, whether he was available, unavailable, whatever.

He was doing. Those were.

He was doing. Those were.

Those were things that they told me, and I didn't engage in whatever they were telling me. I was like, oh, you know, I understand, you know, listening to them speak, but then I didn't. I didn't indulge them in any kind of negative conversation. And so they're not used to hearing or being a part of, like a negative narrative with anybody that I am have you know, been with, and so I think that they were just genuinely just not happy. And it's interesting because after I got after I after I called off the wedding, you know, I obviously was around you know, a lot of my friends, and they were, you know, the majority of the people that I were, you know that were you know, giving me advice.

Those were things that they told me, and I didn't engage in whatever they were telling me. I was like, oh, you know, I understand, you know, listening to them speak, but then I didn't. I didn't indulge them in any kind of negative conversation. And so they're not used to hearing or being a part of, like a negative narrative with anybody that I am have you know, been with, and so I think that they were just genuinely just not happy. And it's interesting because after I got after I after I called off the wedding, you know, I obviously was around you know, a lot of my friends, and they were, you know, the majority of the people that I were, you know that were you know, giving me advice.

Afterwards. They were saying that, you know.

Afterwards. They were saying that, you know.

I'm getting older and that I really need to settle down and you know, find the right person, which I understand and agree with, and they were they were just you know, the common denominator was, you know, it doesn't matter if the kids don't get along or if you're their kids, his kids don't like you, or your kids don't like him, It's about your relationship together. And like, I just don't operate like that I like, I was not raised that way.

I'm getting older and that I really need to settle down and you know, find the right person, which I understand and agree with, and they were they were just you know, the common denominator was, you know, it doesn't matter if the kids don't get along or if you're their kids, his kids don't like you, or your kids don't like him, It's about your relationship together. And like, I just don't operate like that I like, I was not raised that way.

I'm just not an East Coast I mean i am.

I'm just not an East Coast I mean i am.

I've lived in the East Coast for obviously number of years, but my my inherent mindset and upbringing comes from the Midwest, which is about building a family.

I've lived in the East Coast for obviously number of years, but my my inherent mindset and upbringing comes from the Midwest, which is about building a family.

Like, that's what I want and that's what I'm going to get.

Like, that's what I want and that's what I'm going to get.

Well it unless I am missing a piece of the story. It sounds like the things that your kids narrated for you were truth for you. Also, Yeah, and so, and I think we should make that distinction.

Well it unless I am missing a piece of the story. It sounds like the things that your kids narrated for you were truth for you. Also, Yeah, and so, and I think we should make that distinction.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean I always wanted them to. It just hasn't worked out that way. But you know, I feel like I'm like you too, Kelly. I wanted that, Like I never wanted to divorce. I came from a family that was divorced. I never wanted done. My brother's sister's so married. So I tried, you know, so, but there's you know, only so much you could do, you know, for the kids. And I feel like, now my kids are older, they get it. They're like, Mom, I understand you know this that and why you made this decision and why you did that. And you know, maybe now that your girls are older, you can have that conversation with them.

Well, I mean I always wanted them to. It just hasn't worked out that way. But you know, I feel like I'm like you too, Kelly. I wanted that, Like I never wanted to divorce. I came from a family that was divorced. I never wanted done. My brother's sister's so married. So I tried, you know, so, but there's you know, only so much you could do, you know, for the kids. And I feel like, now my kids are older, they get it. They're like, Mom, I understand you know this that and why you made this decision and why you did that. And you know, maybe now that your girls are older, you can have that conversation with them.

Yeah, you know, I just just I just interested.

Yeah, you know, I just just I just interested.

It's like my kids have been you know, I mean they've been, you know, very supportive of whatever I've been doing.

It's like my kids have been you know, I mean they've been, you know, very supportive of whatever I've been doing.

But I thought that was wild that like people that I.

But I thought that was wild that like people that I.

Knew are just like Kelly, just like suck it up and just like find a partner.

Knew are just like Kelly, just like suck it up and just like find a partner.

I'm like, you don't just find a partner like you buy.

I'm like, you don't just find a partner like you buy.

Like to find your happiness in yourself.

Like to find your happiness in yourself.

Like finding a partner is not going to make you happy or fix your life or fix yourself.

Like finding a partner is not going to make you happy or fix your life or fix yourself.

So that's but I think a lot of people think that I know, well.

So that's but I think a lot of people think that I know, well.

A lot of women because they are women.

A lot of women because they are women.

The women that are married, so you have those friends and will give you that kind of advice because I've always been in a relationship. Then you'll have women that never married or they're happily divorced and they're independent, you know, financially and psychologically and emotionally, so they'll give you a different kind of advice.

The women that are married, so you have those friends and will give you that kind of advice because I've always been in a relationship. Then you'll have women that never married or they're happily divorced and they're independent, you know, financially and psychologically and emotionally, so they'll give you a different kind of advice.

But you have to focus on you, on Kelly, and like what you want.

But you have to focus on you, on Kelly, and like what you want.

Yeah, this really feeds into the narrative that is old but still is quite ubiquitous, which is the idea that you are undervalued if you aren't in relationship, right, and the fear that is in our sociocultural dynamics around women aging, and so you're right to notice that this messaging doesn't feel good and doesn't resonate. And I think it's incredible that you've been able to stand up in the face of it and sort of say, like, no, I'm gonna I'm going to pick something that resonates. I'm going to wait until I get a version of what I want, which is exactly what you should do.

Yeah, this really feeds into the narrative that is old but still is quite ubiquitous, which is the idea that you are undervalued if you aren't in relationship, right, and the fear that is in our sociocultural dynamics around women aging, and so you're right to notice that this messaging doesn't feel good and doesn't resonate. And I think it's incredible that you've been able to stand up in the face of it and sort of say, like, no, I'm gonna I'm going to pick something that resonates. I'm going to wait until I get a version of what I want, which is exactly what you should do.

And I think, I mean, there is a lot of fear associated with doing things on your own, by yourself. I mean, whether that's a male or a female. You know, it is so much nicer when you can say there's a pot, we're both putting it in and we're going to.

And I think, I mean, there is a lot of fear associated with doing things on your own, by yourself. I mean, whether that's a male or a female. You know, it is so much nicer when you can say there's a pot, we're both putting it in and we're going to.

Create and build.

Create and build.

You know, I'm building on my own, and there's something very daunting about that.

You know, I'm building on my own, and there's something very daunting about that.

Every day It's like it's.

Every day It's like it's.

Like I'm not only an entrepreneur in business, but I'm an entrepreneur in my personal life too, which is a very kind of daunting.

Like I'm not only an entrepreneur in business, but I'm an entrepreneur in my personal life too, which is a very kind of daunting.

You know, everyday thought that I have.

You know, everyday thought that I have.

I don't mean to be negative, I'm just very realistic and pragmatic. I mean, do you really believe you're going to find that person that you can start building it with them. Okay, listen, there's nothing like faith and being positive and optimistic.

I don't mean to be negative, I'm just very realistic and pragmatic. I mean, do you really believe you're going to find that person that you can start building it with them. Okay, listen, there's nothing like faith and being positive and optimistic.

I'm not, but also that's my mindset.

I'm not, but also that's my mindset.

I definitely would love to have something with with you know, my significant other, where we were doing something together and creating like value, not not necessarily monetary value, but like personal value.

I definitely would love to have something with with you know, my significant other, where we were doing something together and creating like value, not not necessarily monetary value, but like personal value.

I think that's really important.

I think that's really important.

Well, yes, personal for sure.

Well, yes, personal for sure.

Yeah, because I mean we're not gonna have kids. I mean, you.

Yeah, because I mean we're not gonna have kids. I mean, you.

Know, from personal I agree. I think that that's a really woman's you know, goal and wish and dream. You know, we all want that, right, that's what we.

Know, from personal I agree. I think that that's a really woman's you know, goal and wish and dream. You know, we all want that, right, that's what we.

Own for Maybe I'm an optimist.

Own for Maybe I'm an optimist.

Yeah, I know, and I am too, Like you know, we're in love with love and we want to have that.

Yeah, I know, and I am too, Like you know, we're in love with love and we want to have that.

I'm the only optimist in New York City.

I'm the only optimist in New York City.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Well, come to Miami because I feel like I've lost my optimism and I'm super jaded because I live in Miami.

Well, come to Miami because I feel like I've lost my optimism and I'm super jaded because I live in Miami.

So I see you have media, you and doctor Hillary.

So I see you have media, you and doctor Hillary.

Yes, I think it's important for us to sort of, in my view, have been brazen normalize what Kelly is talking about, which is formulating a connection with someone through respect and emotional, physical resonance, and a version of safety. These are all like requirements that are more appropriate and more than possible. I don't want to misrepresent the truth. There are many many women of all age ranges that can narrate how difficult that can be. I'm not trying to downplay that truth. And there are a lot of reasons that, not the least of which is that it's tricky to be an emotionally evolves man in our culture because it's both required but round up town, which we can get into if we'd like. But it's hard to find a man that can stand next to you and sort of giving these requirements that you are asking for. Having said that, that kind of connection seems completely reasonable to me, and you're doing such a service right now, which is both pulling back the curtain. I'm like the fear of like doing so much of this alone. It is hard and lonely at moments, it is scary.