The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy a side of life. The average person is never exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world.

The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy a side of life. The average person is never exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world.

All right, we're back with more questions for Gary from the fans. Gary. Here's one from Brian Gary. Is it true that you only got into podcasting because you wanted to show people that you actually do know how to legally record people speaking.

All right, we're back with more questions for Gary from the fans. Gary. Here's one from Brian Gary. Is it true that you only got into podcasting because you wanted to show people that you actually do know how to legally record people speaking.

I like there is an irony to it, but I lost my career in policing because I was recording conversations, and now I do it for a living. I've got to say I still maintain I wasn't capable of recording recording conversations on my phone about someone showing me how to but.

I like there is an irony to it, but I lost my career in policing because I was recording conversations, and now I do it for a living. I've got to say I still maintain I wasn't capable of recording recording conversations on my phone about someone showing me how to but.

The irony you got a whole team.

The irony you got a whole team.

Lookt I used to record on this a telephone and now look what I've got camera. Yeah, yeah, I learned from my mistakes.

Lookt I used to record on this a telephone and now look what I've got camera. Yeah, yeah, I learned from my mistakes.

Obviously. That was one of the questions I wrote in there. I pretended to be one of the fans, just for a bit of fun. But here's a real one from Jade. Why were you called crazy fuck? I heard you referred to this on the William Tyrrell podcast. Was that a nickname of yours? Yes? It was. I see that.

Obviously. That was one of the questions I wrote in there. I pretended to be one of the fans, just for a bit of fun. But here's a real one from Jade. Why were you called crazy fuck? I heard you referred to this on the William Tyrrell podcast. Was that a nickname of yours? Yes? It was. I see that.

Yeah, I see it as a term of endearment. Well that's how I tried to explain to my kids when that first became public. Outside the people that called me crazy fuck that I worked with, and I don't know why, just the irony of it. I suppose I was so straight and normal. But my good mate Jason, he takes great pride in initiating me crazy fucking. You know, if you get a nickname, you can't react to it because if you react to it, and he could see that it irked me a little bit, so he's stuck with it, and he'd introduced me when we go to a homicide, a fresh homicide, this is a boss, crazy fucking roll his eyes and give it to me for a bit of laughter.

Yeah, I see it as a term of endearment. Well that's how I tried to explain to my kids when that first became public. Outside the people that called me crazy fuck that I worked with, and I don't know why, just the irony of it. I suppose I was so straight and normal. But my good mate Jason, he takes great pride in initiating me crazy fucking. You know, if you get a nickname, you can't react to it because if you react to it, and he could see that it irked me a little bit, so he's stuck with it, and he'd introduced me when we go to a homicide, a fresh homicide, this is a boss, crazy fucking roll his eyes and give it to me for a bit of laughter.

But on Underbelly.

But on Underbelly.

It came out in Underbelly and I'm trying to explain to my kids, why why do they call you crazy fuck? And I'm going, ah, they're just joking.

It came out in Underbelly and I'm trying to explain to my kids, why why do they call you crazy fuck? And I'm going, ah, they're just joking.

But look, I think we need somebody in that was involved with the actual generation of this name to see whether there's a backstory here that you're not telling us.

But look, I think we need somebody in that was involved with the actual generation of this name to see whether there's a backstory here that you're not telling us.

I think the backstory is Jason always reckons, this is funny. This is the dynamics of a homicide team, and it was some of my favorite times in policing. I'd just become a sergeant. You've got to pick a team. I've got Jason and he was a mate though work with on barable and a funny guy, and he'd played the I'd be the straight guy to he's funny guy. He always reckons, he's funnier than I am, and I gave a more situational humor than you are. But he was a loudmouth. I'm the introvert. And then we had Nigel, who was a good mate of ours. Nigel was a technical skills. We knew that because they're just bringing in all these computers and I'm saying that Jason, we need someone that understands computers, and he's gone, what about Nigel? Perfect name. So we'd rock up and this is serious. At the first briefing the homicide, we'd rock up and the team would be introduced. This is the boss. Crazy fuck, he's a serious one. Jason wud be saying, I'm the funny one. I do the humor, I've got the personality, and Nigel's a nerd. And that was a breakup of the breakup of the team, but it was a perfect We complemented each other.

I think the backstory is Jason always reckons, this is funny. This is the dynamics of a homicide team, and it was some of my favorite times in policing. I'd just become a sergeant. You've got to pick a team. I've got Jason and he was a mate though work with on barable and a funny guy, and he'd played the I'd be the straight guy to he's funny guy. He always reckons, he's funnier than I am, and I gave a more situational humor than you are. But he was a loudmouth. I'm the introvert. And then we had Nigel, who was a good mate of ours. Nigel was a technical skills. We knew that because they're just bringing in all these computers and I'm saying that Jason, we need someone that understands computers, and he's gone, what about Nigel? Perfect name. So we'd rock up and this is serious. At the first briefing the homicide, we'd rock up and the team would be introduced. This is the boss. Crazy fuck, he's a serious one. Jason wud be saying, I'm the funny one. I do the humor, I've got the personality, and Nigel's a nerd. And that was a breakup of the breakup of the team, but it was a perfect We complemented each other.

Were you happy with how you were trayed in Underbelly? Obviously they went for an actor, Matte Nabel that's much better looking than you. Obviously, so they've done you a solid there. But you what do you say? Well, I'm just saying, come on, they've done you.

Were you happy with how you were trayed in Underbelly? Obviously they went for an actor, Matte Nabel that's much better looking than you. Obviously, so they've done you a solid there. But you what do you say? Well, I'm just saying, come on, they've done you.

All right, all right. It's a good style of a blake. Even my mum said she prefers Matt the meat. She was watching it. Look, Matt, Matt is a really good made of mind. We've come close from that. We met before the Underbelly thing, and the writers put us together and we just clicked right from the start. And good friend really talented, Like it's just he's an inspirational type of guy, and we catch up a fair bit. It's funny when I catch up with Matt and when the Underbelly series was playing, or around that time or shortly after, we'd be out for a drink and people had come up to him and start talking about how they love the character he portrays in Underbelly, Gary Jubilin And I'm just sitting there as just this mister anonymous, just nobody cares about you back and then when they walk away again, I'm the fucking real GARYT not you. But look, it was good and it sort of.

All right, all right. It's a good style of a blake. Even my mum said she prefers Matt the meat. She was watching it. Look, Matt, Matt is a really good made of mind. We've come close from that. We met before the Underbelly thing, and the writers put us together and we just clicked right from the start. And good friend really talented, Like it's just he's an inspirational type of guy, and we catch up a fair bit. It's funny when I catch up with Matt and when the Underbelly series was playing, or around that time or shortly after, we'd be out for a drink and people had come up to him and start talking about how they love the character he portrays in Underbelly, Gary Jubilin And I'm just sitting there as just this mister anonymous, just nobody cares about you back and then when they walk away again, I'm the fucking real GARYT not you. But look, it was good and it sort of.

I'm proud of.

I'm proud of.

What we did on the called the Underbelly Investigation. It was Strikeforce Tuno, but it was a big investigation ram for ten years. We busted our asses on it and we got some really good results. I'm proud of it, and I'd like to think it inspires people, Look, look what you can do in the policing. And I think they represented the nuances of an investigation the highs, the layers of pressures that sort of come with that type of investigation.

What we did on the called the Underbelly Investigation. It was Strikeforce Tuno, but it was a big investigation ram for ten years. We busted our asses on it and we got some really good results. I'm proud of it, and I'd like to think it inspires people, Look, look what you can do in the policing. And I think they represented the nuances of an investigation the highs, the layers of pressures that sort of come with that type of investigation.

And that case evolved with the murder of Terry falcon I. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you about that, because when you're investigating the murder of someone who is a drug dealer, or even versus someone who's civilian, or even in the murder of a kid dies, it affect how passionate you are about the investigation.

And that case evolved with the murder of Terry falcon I. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you about that, because when you're investigating the murder of someone who is a drug dealer, or even versus someone who's civilian, or even in the murder of a kid dies, it affect how passionate you are about the investigation.

Look when you look at the Terrys, Terry's situation, he had served time in prison, he was on day release. He was abducted by people purporting to be the cops, dressed as detectives and in uniform, and then his body was cut up and he was hung up on a hook and his body was cut up, his teeth, foot pulled out, and it was a horrendous crime. No one deserves to die like that. I know his family, and you speak to his family. Yeah, dad had his faults, but they loved him. And so it's not hard to get motivation. And I think sometimes people assume, ah, well, it's just bad guys killing bad guys. What I found in organized crime that if you let it run too long, innocent people get caught up in it when there's the biky walls and stuff like that, so you can still go after it with the same passion.

Look when you look at the Terrys, Terry's situation, he had served time in prison, he was on day release. He was abducted by people purporting to be the cops, dressed as detectives and in uniform, and then his body was cut up and he was hung up on a hook and his body was cut up, his teeth, foot pulled out, and it was a horrendous crime. No one deserves to die like that. I know his family, and you speak to his family. Yeah, dad had his faults, but they loved him. And so it's not hard to get motivation. And I think sometimes people assume, ah, well, it's just bad guys killing bad guys. What I found in organized crime that if you let it run too long, innocent people get caught up in it when there's the biky walls and stuff like that, so you can still go after it with the same passion.

Yeah, I mean you see that the news all the time now with the Middle East and gang shooting each other, and you're like, oh, well, if it's just got, if it's just internal, who cares.

Yeah, I mean you see that the news all the time now with the Middle East and gang shooting each other, and you're like, oh, well, if it's just got, if it's just internal, who cares.

And look another way? And this is the cops side of me looking at it too. You put us in charge of an investigation like that, you uncover other crimes. It's a win win situation. You're solving the murder, but you're also putting people out of action that otherwise would have kept kept going.

And look another way? And this is the cops side of me looking at it too. You put us in charge of an investigation like that, you uncover other crimes. It's a win win situation. You're solving the murder, but you're also putting people out of action that otherwise would have kept kept going.

I mean, obviously everyone's glad that I'm not a cop myself, including myself, but I would find if I was in charge of investigating the murder of a pedophile. Yeah, I think I'd probably feel like I'm phoning it in versus if it was a missing child or something like that. Yeah, I do understand that, and it must be cops would have that mentality, have that mentality.

I mean, obviously everyone's glad that I'm not a cop myself, including myself, but I would find if I was in charge of investigating the murder of a pedophile. Yeah, I think I'd probably feel like I'm phoning it in versus if it was a missing child or something like that. Yeah, I do understand that, and it must be cops would have that mentality, have that mentality.

But I think you said a bad precedent. If you go, okay, well we'll put resources in there. I see it, and I'll flip it a little bit proper. Resources weren't put into the bar of all investigation because the three Aboriginal kids, and you know, the families told me people don't care. I didn't believe them, but I believe it. Believe it now the time. Then you look at the whim turial matter, which obviously I'm heavily linked to, and the resources that get put in there. I think we've got to look at it from a policing point of view. All lives, all lives matters. And if you let the gangsters start shooting themselves, see how it's become more brazen. Before the gangsters used to disappear like Terry. Terry was meant to disappear and his body wasn't meant to come to the surface.

But I think you said a bad precedent. If you go, okay, well we'll put resources in there. I see it, and I'll flip it a little bit proper. Resources weren't put into the bar of all investigation because the three Aboriginal kids, and you know, the families told me people don't care. I didn't believe them, but I believe it. Believe it now the time. Then you look at the whim turial matter, which obviously I'm heavily linked to, and the resources that get put in there. I think we've got to look at it from a policing point of view. All lives, all lives matters. And if you let the gangsters start shooting themselves, see how it's become more brazen. Before the gangsters used to disappear like Terry. Terry was meant to disappear and his body wasn't meant to come to the surface.

Now it's broad daylight and a car park.

Now it's broad daylight and a car park.

And they're making statements and yeah, with that, it's only a matter of time before innocent people are caught up in it. So you can't have that sort of lawlessness. But I do get what you're saying. And people when there are children involved, like children make it harder. That's heavier because it's just such a sad tragedy. Someone's anyone losing their life. But when young child loss, loss of innocence, life before them, and that life's taken away. It's a tragic situation.

And they're making statements and yeah, with that, it's only a matter of time before innocent people are caught up in it. So you can't have that sort of lawlessness. But I do get what you're saying. And people when there are children involved, like children make it harder. That's heavier because it's just such a sad tragedy. Someone's anyone losing their life. But when young child loss, loss of innocence, life before them, and that life's taken away. It's a tragic situation.

I want to ask you about strike Force Tuno because I had to look it up. Tuno is the vegan alternative for tuna, That's what it is. Yeah, who's coming up with these shit stroke Force names?

I want to ask you about strike Force Tuno because I had to look it up. Tuno is the vegan alternative for tuna, That's what it is. Yeah, who's coming up with these shit stroke Force names?

You don't believe in Vegan?

You don't believe in Vegan?

I think there was another one. You're involved in, strike Force Roseanne. Yeah, And I'm just my concern is there's too many ship strike force names. What about strike force leaping panther Okay, like strike Force roaring line or a rampaging elephant from a crim And I'm like, hold on, oh no, I'll be investigated by strike Force. It gives a little fish.

I think there was another one. You're involved in, strike Force Roseanne. Yeah, And I'm just my concern is there's too many ship strike force names. What about strike force leaping panther Okay, like strike Force roaring line or a rampaging elephant from a crim And I'm like, hold on, oh no, I'll be investigated by strike Force. It gives a little fish.

I know what you're saying. But the very thing that you're saying is the reason why we had to take it away from the police. So their random name, so it's on the computer. Then you log in, you're setting up a strike force, and a name spits out the reason why they had to take it away from that, because the raging panther like Strikeforce would be you know, you can't, you can't.

I know what you're saying. But the very thing that you're saying is the reason why we had to take it away from the police. So their random name, so it's on the computer. Then you log in, you're setting up a strike force, and a name spits out the reason why they had to take it away from that, because the raging panther like Strikeforce would be you know, you can't, you can't.

It's just too many of you. Yeah, it's too confusing.

It's just too many of you. Yeah, it's too confusing.

Yeah, if they are after you the magic mushroom, you can't call Strike Force Magic Mushroom cops. And I think there was one that was Operation Target and the crook got shot and killed. Now that doesn't look good when you're in the coroner, scot how did Well? It wasn't. It's just a pure coincidence. So that's how the names I always because you've got to type them so much too. I like the short ones, like I like Tuno because it's you've got to type that name so many times.

Yeah, if they are after you the magic mushroom, you can't call Strike Force Magic Mushroom cops. And I think there was one that was Operation Target and the crook got shot and killed. Now that doesn't look good when you're in the coroner, scot how did Well? It wasn't. It's just a pure coincidence. So that's how the names I always because you've got to type them so much too. I like the short ones, like I like Tuno because it's you've got to type that name so many times.

Well, so it's randomly generated. But who's created this algorithm? Because it seems like that there's room for a happy middle ground where they it's out a little bit tougher.

Well, so it's randomly generated. But who's created this algorithm? Because it seems like that there's room for a happy middle ground where they it's out a little bit tougher.

Well, you know how you complain to the governor at the prison, Maybe maybe you could pull the pull the leather into the police commission.

Well, you know how you complain to the governor at the prison, Maybe maybe you could pull the pull the leather into the police commission.

I'm trying to just do you guys are solid because if you're there trying to rouse the troops like, hey, guys, this is a very serious investigation. Strike Force Tuno, do you reckon?

I'm trying to just do you guys are solid because if you're there trying to rouse the troops like, hey, guys, this is a very serious investigation. Strike Force Tuno, do you reckon?

That's why it took us ten years to catch those guys, because we got Strike Force Tunos after you and they've gone.

That's why it took us ten years to catch those guys, because we got Strike Force Tunos after you and they've gone.

The excited to get up of the morning. Yeah, what are you working on, babe?

The excited to get up of the morning. Yeah, what are you working on, babe?

Well, strike force Tuna. Maybe the tone, but yeah, okay, well take your point. We might put that in the suggestion box.

Well, strike force Tuna. Maybe the tone, but yeah, okay, well take your point. We might put that in the suggestion box.

Here's a question from Lisa. If you had to choose any detective to solve a murder, who would you choose and why? I guess it doesn't say whether they have to be real or fiction.

Here's a question from Lisa. If you had to choose any detective to solve a murder, who would you choose and why? I guess it doesn't say whether they have to be real or fiction.

Look, I'll pick the real ones. There's some detectives that I have utmost respect for mentors that I had that I worked with.

Look, I'll pick the real ones. There's some detectives that I have utmost respect for mentors that I had that I worked with.

Paul Jacob.

Paul Jacob.

I served him the apprenticeship under him. He taught me, taught me so much and I know, like the passion and dedication that he has on my when he's on an investigation. I can't emphasize how much how much he taught me. Pam Young, who I work within homicide for years but also lived with for years, and she was people ask who's the toughest copy New South Wales? And I gave Pam because she was tough mentally in that and she was smart and she would be good one to be on the investigation. Charlie Berzina, homicide detective from Victoria, a fairly high profile He's another one that when I say I've worked with Charlie. We didn't work so much when we were in the cops because he's down in Victoria. But we've worked on the had a look at a couple of investigations since we've been out of the cops. And his attention to detail, he's passionate, and yeah, his empathy for the victims. They're the type of people I want on the investigation. And there's some Look, there's some great cops still in there.

I served him the apprenticeship under him. He taught me, taught me so much and I know, like the passion and dedication that he has on my when he's on an investigation. I can't emphasize how much how much he taught me. Pam Young, who I work within homicide for years but also lived with for years, and she was people ask who's the toughest copy New South Wales? And I gave Pam because she was tough mentally in that and she was smart and she would be good one to be on the investigation. Charlie Berzina, homicide detective from Victoria, a fairly high profile He's another one that when I say I've worked with Charlie. We didn't work so much when we were in the cops because he's down in Victoria. But we've worked on the had a look at a couple of investigations since we've been out of the cops. And his attention to detail, he's passionate, and yeah, his empathy for the victims. They're the type of people I want on the investigation. And there's some Look, there's some great cops still in there.

Now.

Now.

What worries me that you learn? It's every day I came to the homicide I learned, and the last day I was there, I'm learning, don't record a conversation on your telephone. Who would have thought, But you're learning all the time. You need good mentors and they create good detectives. But they're the type of people that I want, and people that care, people that genuinely care and roll this leaves up and get the job done.

What worries me that you learn? It's every day I came to the homicide I learned, and the last day I was there, I'm learning, don't record a conversation on your telephone. Who would have thought, But you're learning all the time. You need good mentors and they create good detectives. But they're the type of people that I want, and people that care, people that genuinely care and roll this leaves up and get the job done.

Yeah, I would.

Yeah, I would.

I would joke sometimes that give me a detective, destroy their personal life and then you've got them fully committed and not worried about anything else.

I would joke sometimes that give me a detective, destroy their personal life and then you've got them fully committed and not worried about anything else.

But having said that's the recruiter post.

But having said that's the recruiter post.

I think that, Yeah, you're not a true detective until you've had a divorce. Having said that, there's some great detectives that have been able to do their work because they've been in good relationships too, So it's give and take. But yeah, we used to joke a joke about that, you're not really a detective until your divorce.

I think that, Yeah, you're not a true detective until you've had a divorce. Having said that, there's some great detectives that have been able to do their work because they've been in good relationships too, So it's give and take. But yeah, we used to joke a joke about that, you're not really a detective until your divorce.

You're talking about these hot shots that kind of come in, but then they lose they lose attention, they want to go onto the next thing in a short time frame. How do you when a case is kind of dragging out, how do you maintain the focus and the passion for it. Well, there's not a lot of people that do.

You're talking about these hot shots that kind of come in, but then they lose they lose attention, they want to go onto the next thing in a short time frame. How do you when a case is kind of dragging out, how do you maintain the focus and the passion for it. Well, there's not a lot of people that do.

That's why I look for those slow burners the ones that do, And I get frustrated with people that there for the good times, and the good times at the early stage is the exciting part of getting the breakthroughs and all that, and then when the gone, they want to walk away, and they're the people I don't respect and the people I get frustrated with. And because of some of the investigations I've had, they've been very long term, Like I'm doing short term ones in between, but long term investigations and the ones that stick with those long term investigations. They're the ones that have got my total respect, because there's not much reward when you're like the Falcon, the one that was ten years, like ten years, you know, short term satisfaction. You think, okay, start here, it's ten years down the track before we get together a result. You got to burn, and there's a slow burn, and you've got to be committed. You've got to be focused, and you've got to believe in what you're doing.

That's why I look for those slow burners the ones that do, And I get frustrated with people that there for the good times, and the good times at the early stage is the exciting part of getting the breakthroughs and all that, and then when the gone, they want to walk away, and they're the people I don't respect and the people I get frustrated with. And because of some of the investigations I've had, they've been very long term, Like I'm doing short term ones in between, but long term investigations and the ones that stick with those long term investigations. They're the ones that have got my total respect, because there's not much reward when you're like the Falcon, the one that was ten years, like ten years, you know, short term satisfaction. You think, okay, start here, it's ten years down the track before we get together a result. You got to burn, and there's a slow burn, and you've got to be committed. You've got to be focused, and you've got to believe in what you're doing.

I think there's probably another detective you did lift or leave off that wish list, which is my mum, Ronnie Hamilton. Would have been a great addition. Right. There's another question here from Elaine Hi. Gary, another question from me. You mentioned a few times on your one of your favorit of books as mind Hunter by John Douglas. Can you share any of your other favorite.

I think there's probably another detective you did lift or leave off that wish list, which is my mum, Ronnie Hamilton. Would have been a great addition. Right. There's another question here from Elaine Hi. Gary, another question from me. You mentioned a few times on your one of your favorit of books as mind Hunter by John Douglas. Can you share any of your other favorite.

Books that mind Hunter? Explain why I enjoyed mind Hunt.

Books that mind Hunter? Explain why I enjoyed mind Hunt.

I've seen the TV series.

I've seen the TV series.

Yeah, well we had, yeah, you know the female leading that show, doctor An Burgess, fascinating lady and we're having her on the podcast later. But John Douglas and the mind Hunter, and I don't think it in the mind Hunter TV series it was credited with John Hunter, a different different name, but this was the start of criminal profiling in the FBI early days, and they learned that by speaking to serial killers and finding out what made them tick. I read that book and my mentor that I attribute to be my mentor, Paul Jacob. I was re reading the book when I was a young homicide detecting. We'd go there and I'd be talking on the way of the crime scene, what would John Douglas do here? And just had some fascinating insights into the way approach approached homicide. In regards to other books I read, I used to read read fiction, but I've sort of gone off, gone off fiction books and non fictions. I like memoirs, that type of thing. I like to take something from a book, learn a little bit. I don't overload on crime books. Sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't. But when you're living at day to day, it's not really the relaxation. So I like a little bit of escapism.

Yeah, well we had, yeah, you know the female leading that show, doctor An Burgess, fascinating lady and we're having her on the podcast later. But John Douglas and the mind Hunter, and I don't think it in the mind Hunter TV series it was credited with John Hunter, a different different name, but this was the start of criminal profiling in the FBI early days, and they learned that by speaking to serial killers and finding out what made them tick. I read that book and my mentor that I attribute to be my mentor, Paul Jacob. I was re reading the book when I was a young homicide detecting. We'd go there and I'd be talking on the way of the crime scene, what would John Douglas do here? And just had some fascinating insights into the way approach approached homicide. In regards to other books I read, I used to read read fiction, but I've sort of gone off, gone off fiction books and non fictions. I like memoirs, that type of thing. I like to take something from a book, learn a little bit. I don't overload on crime books. Sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't. But when you're living at day to day, it's not really the relaxation. So I like a little bit of escapism.

I'm finding it funny because I had a book come out in August and it's in bookstores and at the airport seeing my face in the true crime section, and it's all these murder stories and it's just some stupid story about a guy who was a mushroom dealer for fifteen years.

I'm finding it funny because I had a book come out in August and it's in bookstores and at the airport seeing my face in the true crime section, and it's all these murder stories and it's just some stupid story about a guy who was a mushroom dealer for fifteen years.

It's okay, well, I'll confess to I look to see if my book is in the airport.

It's okay, well, I'll confess to I look to see if my book is in the airport.

You've got to check, Gary, you go, you got to check. You pick it up and look.

You've got to check, Gary, you go, you got to check. You pick it up and look.

I was standing behind someone that was flicking through through my book and then they put it back, and I felt like I wanted to object. I object put it back, but no, congratulations, you've got got the book out, Thank you. I'll look for I was probably just looking for my book.

I was standing behind someone that was flicking through through my book and then they put it back, and I felt like I wanted to object. I object put it back, but no, congratulations, you've got got the book out, Thank you. I'll look for I was probably just looking for my book.

Not one of these days I'll be sitting next to yours. Gary. So yeah, keep an eye out, but they won't ever want anyone needs a stocking filler. The Profound Benefits of a stint in prison. It's funny seeing it because sometimes it's in true crime, sometimes it's in nonfictional biography, but I make it could also be in the how to section. I think as long as they put it in fiction. A couple of my mates have been putting it in the fiction section just to piss take me, but oh, here we go. Yeah, this is from Alisha. It's a two parter. So Alisha's brother has been murdered, and questions, how do I have faith that the police will find my brother's killer.

Not one of these days I'll be sitting next to yours. Gary. So yeah, keep an eye out, but they won't ever want anyone needs a stocking filler. The Profound Benefits of a stint in prison. It's funny seeing it because sometimes it's in true crime, sometimes it's in nonfictional biography, but I make it could also be in the how to section. I think as long as they put it in fiction. A couple of my mates have been putting it in the fiction section just to piss take me, but oh, here we go. Yeah, this is from Alisha. It's a two parter. So Alisha's brother has been murdered, and questions, how do I have faith that the police will find my brother's killer.

It's a question that gets us a lot, and since I've left the police, the amount of calls I get from people that were concerned about is this being investigated properly? And that Sometimes I'll have a deep dive into it and make suggestions. Other times I say that the families, your responsibility for it is just how the police you deserve. The police are there to serve the public. If you've reported a crime, what's happening with that investigation? Don't let them bullshit you and fob you off. You've got the right to know. I think the police are becoming more aware of that in regards to that than if she's listening, I'm sorry that you're going through that. I would make contact with the person that's running the investigation, got responsibility for the investigation and ask for updates.

It's a question that gets us a lot, and since I've left the police, the amount of calls I get from people that were concerned about is this being investigated properly? And that Sometimes I'll have a deep dive into it and make suggestions. Other times I say that the families, your responsibility for it is just how the police you deserve. The police are there to serve the public. If you've reported a crime, what's happening with that investigation? Don't let them bullshit you and fob you off. You've got the right to know. I think the police are becoming more aware of that in regards to that than if she's listening, I'm sorry that you're going through that. I would make contact with the person that's running the investigation, got responsibility for the investigation and ask for updates.

What's the training that you guys get in terms of the messaging around that to set expectations because there's a huge burden on you in terms of what you say to them.

What's the training that you guys get in terms of the messaging around that to set expectations because there's a huge burden on you in terms of what you say to them.

We've got I know in New South Wales and I'm assuming in other law enforcement areas or other states. Quite often you have a victim liaison officer appointed on the strikeforce. Yeah, if you're on my strike force, I might be the boss. I can't speak to the victim all the time. I might the point you keep the families informed, and that's the point of contact. I can't stress enough for you know, hopefully if there's any police listening to this, how much it's respected by the victims. If you make yourself available, like here's my phone number, you contact me anytime and we can talk through it. These are grieving people.

We've got I know in New South Wales and I'm assuming in other law enforcement areas or other states. Quite often you have a victim liaison officer appointed on the strikeforce. Yeah, if you're on my strike force, I might be the boss. I can't speak to the victim all the time. I might the point you keep the families informed, and that's the point of contact. I can't stress enough for you know, hopefully if there's any police listening to this, how much it's respected by the victims. If you make yourself available, like here's my phone number, you contact me anytime and we can talk through it. These are grieving people.

You've got to know.

You've got to know.

If you're going to be responsible for investigating the murder of someone, put yourself out there and make yourself.

If you're going to be responsible for investigating the murder of someone, put yourself out there and make yourself.

Available to the people.

Available to the people.

But in regards to that situation, i'd make contact and just ask for updates. I think that's you're not asking too much. One thing Andrew that I was taught and it was Courtney topics as parents. Courtney was shot by police and that was a tragic situation. She was going through a mental health episode and walk out of Hungry Jack's carrying a knife and she was shot and killed by police. I was in charge of running that investigation. A critical incident investigation to see if it was justified. And I spoke to the family initially and I left them my number, and then it was a couple of months later they've phoned up and they've unleashed on me. The grandfather is unleashed on. We haven't heard from you where my granddaughter's been killed. You haven't spoken the family. And I apologized profusely and said, look, you had my number. I didn't want to phone you. We're working on it. It's not a cover up, we're working on it. And I thought you'd contacted me. I felt so bad about it. I got in the car and drove out to their place. It was on the weekend. Apologize, sat down in the kitchen with them, and they told me how upset they were, and they made the point that we don't deal with the police a lot, and well, we never deal with the police, and this was the first interaction we've had with the police, and the police have shot and killed our daughter, and we didn't think we could actually pick the phone up and phone the detective inspector. And I was embarrassed from my misunderstanding.

But in regards to that situation, i'd make contact and just ask for updates. I think that's you're not asking too much. One thing Andrew that I was taught and it was Courtney topics as parents. Courtney was shot by police and that was a tragic situation. She was going through a mental health episode and walk out of Hungry Jack's carrying a knife and she was shot and killed by police. I was in charge of running that investigation. A critical incident investigation to see if it was justified. And I spoke to the family initially and I left them my number, and then it was a couple of months later they've phoned up and they've unleashed on me. The grandfather is unleashed on. We haven't heard from you where my granddaughter's been killed. You haven't spoken the family. And I apologized profusely and said, look, you had my number. I didn't want to phone you. We're working on it. It's not a cover up, we're working on it. And I thought you'd contacted me. I felt so bad about it. I got in the car and drove out to their place. It was on the weekend. Apologize, sat down in the kitchen with them, and they told me how upset they were, and they made the point that we don't deal with the police a lot, and well, we never deal with the police, and this was the first interaction we've had with the police, and the police have shot and killed our daughter, and we didn't think we could actually pick the phone up and phone the detective inspector. And I was embarrassed from my misunderstanding.

Of the situation.

Of the situation.

And it taught me a lot that the public don't think they can trouble the police. But I'm saying you can trouble the police. They're public servants.

And it taught me a lot that the public don't think they can trouble the police. But I'm saying you can trouble the police. They're public servants.

There's the second partner's question from Elisia, which was, how can my family grieve without having answers as to why my brother was killed? I guess does that go back to having that commerson calling the police and having that conversation as well.

There's the second partner's question from Elisia, which was, how can my family grieve without having answers as to why my brother was killed? I guess does that go back to having that commerson calling the police and having that conversation as well.

It's keeping contact with the police and find out what's happening. I use the word closure once when I was talking to a family member in homicide and they jumped on me and said, this doesn't give this closure. That you don't get closure from murder. So I've taken that word out of the narrative that if I'm speaking to we'll get your closure. I understand that they want answers, and it's very hard to think you can't have answers. I think they can get some solace in the fact if they know the police have done everything possible. I can't imagine how family feels if they well, I can imagine because I've seen it time and time again, families that I've dealt with where the police haven't done everything possible to find their loved one and it infuriates them, it upsets them, it keeps that pain running. So the reality of the world is that not every murder will be solved. But if you know that the people responsible for finding out who's murthered you love one have done everything humanly possible, it makes it that little bit easier. I think so. And the pain that people go through when they can't find the bodies of their loved one. And I've seen that Colin Walker, one of the Bearable Children, we haven't found her body, and that traumatizes thirty almost thirty years down the track, still traumatizing, traumatizing the family, Matthew Levison's family for ten years. On weekends they go to the National Park with a pick and shovel and just dig around the National Park looking for the body. That's the type of pain we're talking about.

It's keeping contact with the police and find out what's happening. I use the word closure once when I was talking to a family member in homicide and they jumped on me and said, this doesn't give this closure. That you don't get closure from murder. So I've taken that word out of the narrative that if I'm speaking to we'll get your closure. I understand that they want answers, and it's very hard to think you can't have answers. I think they can get some solace in the fact if they know the police have done everything possible. I can't imagine how family feels if they well, I can imagine because I've seen it time and time again, families that I've dealt with where the police haven't done everything possible to find their loved one and it infuriates them, it upsets them, it keeps that pain running. So the reality of the world is that not every murder will be solved. But if you know that the people responsible for finding out who's murthered you love one have done everything humanly possible, it makes it that little bit easier. I think so. And the pain that people go through when they can't find the bodies of their loved one. And I've seen that Colin Walker, one of the Bearable Children, we haven't found her body, and that traumatizes thirty almost thirty years down the track, still traumatizing, traumatizing the family, Matthew Levison's family for ten years. On weekends they go to the National Park with a pick and shovel and just dig around the National Park looking for the body. That's the type of pain we're talking about.

So, yeah, you can't want to know, Yeah.

So, yeah, you can't want to know, Yeah.

You want that want that understanding of what happens. So if police understand the impact, I think they'll do the right job. You've got to have empathy. I think that's a and all the good detectives that I know. And it's funny when I sit down and speak to people I look up to and they talk. You know, what's a trade of a good detective empathy And it's a simple thing, but it's so important.

You want that want that understanding of what happens. So if police understand the impact, I think they'll do the right job. You've got to have empathy. I think that's a and all the good detectives that I know. And it's funny when I sit down and speak to people I look up to and they talk. You know, what's a trade of a good detective empathy And it's a simple thing, but it's so important.

Sure, but I think you know a lot of people. You get into the police force and you might sign up through a job, but then you don't realize that all these other bits are the moving parts of it. You know, you're almost trying to be a counselor or a therapist on the side actually trying to catch the killer.

Sure, but I think you know a lot of people. You get into the police force and you might sign up through a job, but then you don't realize that all these other bits are the moving parts of it. You know, you're almost trying to be a counselor or a therapist on the side actually trying to catch the killer.

Well that and I've seen people that have gone too far that way, Like I've had people that have been what the families want. I think they want a hard ass homicide detectives that's going to go go for the killer. And I've had to pull some people back that they get too emotionally involved with the family. And you want to help that family. You work as hard as you can to find the killer that will bring comfort. So that it's that fine line. But you've got to keep the lines of communication open because there's a lot of trust that families put in you if you're investigating a murder. But yeah, you're not there to be a social worker. You've got to be ruthless in the way that you go to solve the solve the crime.

Well that and I've seen people that have gone too far that way, Like I've had people that have been what the families want. I think they want a hard ass homicide detectives that's going to go go for the killer. And I've had to pull some people back that they get too emotionally involved with the family. And you want to help that family. You work as hard as you can to find the killer that will bring comfort. So that it's that fine line. But you've got to keep the lines of communication open because there's a lot of trust that families put in you if you're investigating a murder. But yeah, you're not there to be a social worker. You've got to be ruthless in the way that you go to solve the solve the crime.

All this stuff you're talking about with with wind Hunter, and there's obviously huge growth in understanding criminal psychology. Where are the are there areas that are kind of the new ground in terms of policing, that are the hot the hot topics. I mean, yeah, I don't even know how. If I was still drug dealing now, it would be so much harder because there's no ATMs where well, who's paying cash for drugs anymore?

All this stuff you're talking about with with wind Hunter, and there's obviously huge growth in understanding criminal psychology. Where are the are there areas that are kind of the new ground in terms of policing, that are the hot the hot topics. I mean, yeah, I don't even know how. If I was still drug dealing now, it would be so much harder because there's no ATMs where well, who's paying cash for drugs anymore?

I've wondered. I've wondered that because I wouldn't know about the drug industry, but I've often wondered, like, how do you go score from your dealer? Do you have a card machine?

I've wondered. I've wondered that because I wouldn't know about the drug industry, but I've often wondered, like, how do you go score from your dealer? Do you have a card machine?

Because I don't want to leave it it's getting hard or four years ago, so I know, now, what would you do? Yeah, you'd have to have a square reader plus machine. But there's so too much for a paper trailer.

Because I don't want to leave it it's getting hard or four years ago, so I know, now, what would you do? Yeah, you'd have to have a square reader plus machine. But there's so too much for a paper trailer.

I don't know, but everything, everything leaves a trail, like it really does. I get in the car to go to the gym in the morning, the phone's telling me how far I'm away from the place I'm going to. And then yesterday I got in the car and normally I go to a licensed premises on that particular day. It said, I'm five minutes away from this particular particular place, and I'm thinking, oh god, I got to check this phone.

I don't know, but everything, everything leaves a trail, like it really does. I get in the car to go to the gym in the morning, the phone's telling me how far I'm away from the place I'm going to. And then yesterday I got in the car and normally I go to a licensed premises on that particular day. It said, I'm five minutes away from this particular particular place, and I'm thinking, oh god, I got to check this phone.

There was an amazing story a couple of years ago. I think it was in like the Manly Daily. There was a woman who followed he a GPS and drove like right off a wharf. I think we're trusting too much in techniclo.

There was an amazing story a couple of years ago. I think it was in like the Manly Daily. There was a woman who followed he a GPS and drove like right off a wharf. I think we're trusting too much in techniclo.

Well, we got to We've gotta wind it back. But yeah, I think for being a crook, it's going to be hard. And we're policing, you need to be one step ahead of head of the crooks because quite often the crooks changed their m and if we can get to get ahead of them. Look look at that the phone sting that generated from America.

Well, we got to We've gotta wind it back. But yeah, I think for being a crook, it's going to be hard. And we're policing, you need to be one step ahead of head of the crooks because quite often the crooks changed their m and if we can get to get ahead of them. Look look at that the phone sting that generated from America.

So yeah, that happened. The ANIM takedown happened the exact same day that I got arrested. And so when I was in prison, people thought that I was a much bigger dealer than I was because they thought that I was part of the ANIM takedown. Right, that would have given you some street credit. It was just funny timing. But yeah, for anyone doesn't know, Yeah, there was this app called ANOM that I think was creative by the FBI. And then it was like through a whole bunch of like crimson snitches and informants. It was past the carriage to be used by the criminal fraternity. And so there was all these like major operators using it and the colleagues everything.

So yeah, that happened. The ANIM takedown happened the exact same day that I got arrested. And so when I was in prison, people thought that I was a much bigger dealer than I was because they thought that I was part of the ANIM takedown. Right, that would have given you some street credit. It was just funny timing. But yeah, for anyone doesn't know, Yeah, there was this app called ANOM that I think was creative by the FBI. And then it was like through a whole bunch of like crimson snitches and informants. It was past the carriage to be used by the criminal fraternity. And so there was all these like major operators using it and the colleagues everything.

They everyone thought that was incated. But yeah, it's a scary time for criminals.

They everyone thought that was incated. But yeah, it's a scary time for criminals.

I was. I thought like when on my phone got taken, I was like, oh, it's it's locked. I don't think you can get in.

I was. I thought like when on my phone got taken, I was like, oh, it's it's locked. I don't think you can get in.

But they got bacticle you to get the past.

But they got bacticle you to get the past.

I didn't. They didn't. I think they could have even held it in front of my face. They could have got in, but they didn't try that. They didn't. They didn't do anything like that. But they got like we cell bride or whatever it's called. They get. They got into some stuff and that was embarrassing enough. They had like a text from me to my mate saying like hey man, can you bring over the bat phone? And I had like a bit in court that that was like the batphone was my nickname for my drug phone. But yeah, so the second stuff, if I.

I didn't. They didn't. I think they could have even held it in front of my face. They could have got in, but they didn't try that. They didn't. They didn't do anything like that. But they got like we cell bride or whatever it's called. They get. They got into some stuff and that was embarrassing enough. They had like a text from me to my mate saying like hey man, can you bring over the bat phone? And I had like a bit in court that that was like the batphone was my nickname for my drug phone. But yeah, so the second stuff, if I.

I can relate, I've had my phone, So yeah, if you take things out of context, sometimes it looks embarrassing.

I can relate, I've had my phone, So yeah, if you take things out of context, sometimes it looks embarrassing.

Absolutely, yeah. So yes, I was there thinking hopefully they can't get in, but they got They didn't get everything, but they get enough. Yeah. Yeah, that you have a sticky situation in court. I explain it. When you're saying that you know things to your friends and family or you know, and an off color joke, and then you've got to read it out in court, it would say way worse.

Absolutely, yeah. So yes, I was there thinking hopefully they can't get in, but they got They didn't get everything, but they get enough. Yeah. Yeah, that you have a sticky situation in court. I explain it. When you're saying that you know things to your friends and family or you know, and an off color joke, and then you've got to read it out in court, it would say way worse.

Yeah, there was something in the news the other day about some gang length stuff and I'm even sure which.

Yeah, there was something in the news the other day about some gang length stuff and I'm even sure which.

State, but.

State, but.

Stuff was being read out the text messages on the phone in court and it was someone ship bagging the crew he was working with.

Stuff was being read out the text messages on the phone in court and it was someone ship bagging the crew he was working with.

So that would be embarrassing, so embarrassing, like Fellas, in context, it wouldn't sound so bad, you know.

So that would be embarrassing, so embarrassing, like Fellas, in context, it wouldn't sound so bad, you know.

I was just.

I was just.

Yeah, you know, you didn't get the You know that I was being sarcastic if you can't pick that up from a text. We've got a few questions here about the podcast. So if you've done over what you've done, hundreds and hundreds of episodes, Now, which interview has surprised you the most? Is there some that have stuck out?

Yeah, you know, you didn't get the You know that I was being sarcastic if you can't pick that up from a text. We've got a few questions here about the podcast. So if you've done over what you've done, hundreds and hundreds of episodes, Now, which interview has surprised you the most? Is there some that have stuck out?

Well, pay tribute to you? Are you saying the best podcast.

Well, pay tribute to you? Are you saying the best podcast.

Well, I mean, obviously I would have to be up there, sure. I mean you've talked to people on this podcast from all walks of life. Yeah. I think that's one of the cool things about this podcast is that you know, you've also You've got a lot of guys that have found themselves on the wrong side of the law that come in here and talk about that perspective as well. I think that's very cool.

Well, I mean, obviously I would have to be up there, sure. I mean you've talked to people on this podcast from all walks of life. Yeah. I think that's one of the cool things about this podcast is that you know, you've also You've got a lot of guys that have found themselves on the wrong side of the law that come in here and talk about that perspective as well. I think that's very cool.

I find I really find it interesting sitting down speaking to people and thinking, you know people, but until you sit down, you don't get the full sense of it. And I've been very fortunate the cross section of people. I don't it's like saying, which is your favorite child? One podcast? I was nervous about doing a turn round. I had a great time with Grace Tame. That my perception of Grace in the media that was a very intense, intense person, and I reading the book, I'm thinking, there's so much more to Grace Tame than I didn't realize. And came in there and I thought, your stuff up with Grace and she's.

I find I really find it interesting sitting down speaking to people and thinking, you know people, but until you sit down, you don't get the full sense of it. And I've been very fortunate the cross section of people. I don't it's like saying, which is your favorite child? One podcast? I was nervous about doing a turn round. I had a great time with Grace Tame. That my perception of Grace in the media that was a very intense, intense person, and I reading the book, I'm thinking, there's so much more to Grace Tame than I didn't realize. And came in there and I thought, your stuff up with Grace and she's.

Going to unleash on you. She's got a great sense of humor as well.

Going to unleash on you. She's got a great sense of humor as well.

Oh, it was funny, funny, funny lady, and I really enjoyed that. So that was one that surprised me because I thought it was going to be intense and I really prepared for it. And then when we got got in the room, others some amazing, amazing stories that I've heard, stories of survival and different people that spend time in time in prison and they come through it. And I'm talking overseas prisons. One of the guests that blew me away was Rob Langdon. He spent seven years in Kabul prison in Afghanistan as the next Army soldier, So you can imagine the time he had with ISIS and that in there so so many people and I honestly can't say like a favorite one I enjoy. I realize how fortunate I am every time I come in and sit down and have a chat with people.

Oh, it was funny, funny, funny lady, and I really enjoyed that. So that was one that surprised me because I thought it was going to be intense and I really prepared for it. And then when we got got in the room, others some amazing, amazing stories that I've heard, stories of survival and different people that spend time in time in prison and they come through it. And I'm talking overseas prisons. One of the guests that blew me away was Rob Langdon. He spent seven years in Kabul prison in Afghanistan as the next Army soldier, So you can imagine the time he had with ISIS and that in there so so many people and I honestly can't say like a favorite one I enjoy. I realize how fortunate I am every time I come in and sit down and have a chat with people.

So yeah, I think a lot of Aussie crims will winge about Australian prisons. It can get a lot worse.

So yeah, I think a lot of Aussie crims will winge about Australian prisons. It can get a lot worse.

Yeah, well, yeah, like a prison in Thailand. And there was one bloke, Key's an English English guy, Billy Moore. I watch He's watch his movie A movie years ago. I think it was called that prayer before Dawn.

Yeah, well, yeah, like a prison in Thailand. And there was one bloke, Key's an English English guy, Billy Moore. I watch He's watch his movie A movie years ago. I think it was called that prayer before Dawn.

And I have seen that.

And I have seen that.

Yeah, the myy Tie guy. I watched the movie and I thought, I'm hosting the podcast, I could reach out to him, got him on and hearing his story, and I watched the movie and I always thought they would be fascinating and got him in. Thought, well, it fits right in the genre of Yeah, I catch killers and the story when he was over in Bangkok and the survival, how people survive those situations, and then some cops that I sit down and speak to. It just makes me sad that I want to be back in the cops when they're telling a cops story and going, yeah, that's cool. And I've been taken back into that world and people that I admire and I think I would love to work with that person.

Yeah, the myy Tie guy. I watched the movie and I thought, I'm hosting the podcast, I could reach out to him, got him on and hearing his story, and I watched the movie and I always thought they would be fascinating and got him in. Thought, well, it fits right in the genre of Yeah, I catch killers and the story when he was over in Bangkok and the survival, how people survive those situations, and then some cops that I sit down and speak to. It just makes me sad that I want to be back in the cops when they're telling a cops story and going, yeah, that's cool. And I've been taken back into that world and people that I admire and I think I would love to work with that person.

Are there any guys who you put away who you thought like under different circumstances, this guy would have been a great guy to have a beer with.

Are there any guys who you put away who you thought like under different circumstances, this guy would have been a great guy to have a beer with.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, There's plenty of people, and I won't name names or get them in trouble, but when I sit down and have a chat with them, it's that sliding door moment where their lives are gone this way. I've gone that way and then you know, we're fortunate enough that we can come back and speak to them. Even with murderers and people, I choose my words carefully here because the consequences of murderer are horrific, but people often say, no, murderers should get bail or they're risks to society. What I've learned investigating homicides, every murder is different. And you know, Sarah or the forensic psychologists would always tell me that just because this person's done a bad thing doesn't make them a bad person. And that's a simple philosophy, and it's from a very smart lady, but it's something that I've really learned from that we all make mistakes. You make mistakes, I make mistakes. It's how you react after the mistakes. We're talking about my mate Rob Carlton, who you know through the comedy festivals, and he makes a point that you're not defined by what's happened right now, it's who you were before and what happens after. And that's a good way of looking at life too. I think that, yeah, at some point in time, we're all going to be down and feeling bad to bear ourselves, but what have you done before let's see, you've got some credit points there, and what are you going to do in the future.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, There's plenty of people, and I won't name names or get them in trouble, but when I sit down and have a chat with them, it's that sliding door moment where their lives are gone this way. I've gone that way and then you know, we're fortunate enough that we can come back and speak to them. Even with murderers and people, I choose my words carefully here because the consequences of murderer are horrific, but people often say, no, murderers should get bail or they're risks to society. What I've learned investigating homicides, every murder is different. And you know, Sarah or the forensic psychologists would always tell me that just because this person's done a bad thing doesn't make them a bad person. And that's a simple philosophy, and it's from a very smart lady, but it's something that I've really learned from that we all make mistakes. You make mistakes, I make mistakes. It's how you react after the mistakes. We're talking about my mate Rob Carlton, who you know through the comedy festivals, and he makes a point that you're not defined by what's happened right now, it's who you were before and what happens after. And that's a good way of looking at life too. I think that, yeah, at some point in time, we're all going to be down and feeling bad to bear ourselves, but what have you done before let's see, you've got some credit points there, and what are you going to do in the future.

You must have had, I guess a similar situation to me when all the shit hit the fan and you left the police force. Is that you know, there's people who you thought were your mates. There's people that you thought were going to be there when she hits a fan that had nowhere to be seen. Yeah, but I found on the flip side, there's also people that surprise you, people that come and have your back that you never expected.

You must have had, I guess a similar situation to me when all the shit hit the fan and you left the police force. Is that you know, there's people who you thought were your mates. There's people that you thought were going to be there when she hits a fan that had nowhere to be seen. Yeah, but I found on the flip side, there's also people that surprise you, people that come and have your back that you never expected.

Yeah, And I one hundred percent on that, and I was surprised, Like I probably at that point, I probably wouldn't have picked some of the reactions. I thought there was some stand up people, and they've been shown to be just weak gathered, you know, just couldn't even come in and say hello to me when I'm in the room for three months. That these are people that mates, that have been working with for twenty years. And there's other people that have reached out if anything I can do the help that made such a difference. So I lost I lost a lot of friends through it. And then there's others like I paid tribute to I mentioned Paul Jacob, I mentioned him a lot. Maddie Moss is another bloke and Nick Kaldos's deputy commissioner, and he retired as shortly before the ship hit the fan with me, and he fumed me up and said, Jubes, I'm walking into court with you. And that's him putting his without even asking what this was all about. He just said, I'm walking in the court with you. So I'm walking in with my mentor, Paul Jacob Nick Kaldos, a deputy commissioner, and Maddie Moss that I worked with in homicide. And I can't say how much that meant to me because you know, walking in these are people that I respect and they're walking in support me, and there's a lot of other people that are behind the scenes of have supported me.

Yeah, And I one hundred percent on that, and I was surprised, Like I probably at that point, I probably wouldn't have picked some of the reactions. I thought there was some stand up people, and they've been shown to be just weak gathered, you know, just couldn't even come in and say hello to me when I'm in the room for three months. That these are people that mates, that have been working with for twenty years. And there's other people that have reached out if anything I can do the help that made such a difference. So I lost I lost a lot of friends through it. And then there's others like I paid tribute to I mentioned Paul Jacob, I mentioned him a lot. Maddie Moss is another bloke and Nick Kaldos's deputy commissioner, and he retired as shortly before the ship hit the fan with me, and he fumed me up and said, Jubes, I'm walking into court with you. And that's him putting his without even asking what this was all about. He just said, I'm walking in the court with you. So I'm walking in with my mentor, Paul Jacob Nick Kaldos, a deputy commissioner, and Maddie Moss that I worked with in homicide. And I can't say how much that meant to me because you know, walking in these are people that I respect and they're walking in support me, and there's a lot of other people that are behind the scenes of have supported me.

I found, yeah, that I had that feeling of that I was let down by people that I thought would be there, but then people surprised me and so really we're just going through Shiit just is a great clarifier where you stand with people. Well.

I found, yeah, that I had that feeling of that I was let down by people that I thought would be there, but then people surprised me and so really we're just going through Shiit just is a great clarifier where you stand with people. Well.

It has freedom out to a degree because before I'd feel obliged that.

It has freedom out to a degree because before I'd feel obliged that.

You know, you gather a send off or whatever.

You know, you gather a send off or whatever.

I think I've been to two police functions in the past six years, and I'm happy with that. I'm happy with that. If I if I make an effort to gather a function, that's because I really support this person and this person's supported me.

I think I've been to two police functions in the past six years, and I'm happy with that. I'm happy with that. If I if I make an effort to gather a function, that's because I really support this person and this person's supported me.

So it sounds like I get invited to more police functions.

So it sounds like I get invited to more police functions.

I reckon, I reckon there'd be I reckon, there'd be more surveillance on me than on you.

I reckon, I reckon there'd be I reckon, there'd be more surveillance on me than on you.

Yeah, we've swapped ross. I was invited to perform stand up for Christmas last year at a at a Victorian police station.

Yeah, we've swapped ross. I was invited to perform stand up for Christmas last year at a at a Victorian police station.

But they you prick, you are getting invited to more.

But they you prick, you are getting invited to more.

So. Yes, most of my paid corporate gigs so far have been have been government events like mostly criminal justice system once.

So. Yes, most of my paid corporate gigs so far have been have been government events like mostly criminal justice system once.

But I see I look a look at you and flipping it. See how I've just worked this round and now I'm coming to the master plan. This is all a set up. We're going to get you to confess. But the systems worked for you, hasn't it. You got caught, you got punnies, and you've turned your life around.

But I see I look a look at you and flipping it. See how I've just worked this round and now I'm coming to the master plan. This is all a set up. We're going to get you to confess. But the systems worked for you, hasn't it. You got caught, you got punnies, and you've turned your life around.

Yeah. I think that the thing that the prison experience really wasn't the thing that changed me. It was the impact it had in my friends and family that was the difference, and so I think if I had got up an environment where everyone I knew was already in prison, or I didn't have any friends and family, then I don't know if it would have been as strong a dis incentive. Okay, because because I had a pretty good time in prison, I've got traded great and so I think that it was the thing that changed me was yet I didn't want to be so selfish just to hurt my friends and family anymore.

Yeah. I think that the thing that the prison experience really wasn't the thing that changed me. It was the impact it had in my friends and family that was the difference, and so I think if I had got up an environment where everyone I knew was already in prison, or I didn't have any friends and family, then I don't know if it would have been as strong a dis incentive. Okay, because because I had a pretty good time in prison, I've got traded great and so I think that it was the thing that changed me was yet I didn't want to be so selfish just to hurt my friends and family anymore.

Yeah, well, I think, and therein might be the difference where people that can't break the break the shackles or start to go in the different directions in life, you had people around you supporting you, so you can have sympathy for and empathy for the people that didn't have that support. You could understand if you went in that world and you didn't have the family and that.

Yeah, well, I think, and therein might be the difference where people that can't break the break the shackles or start to go in the different directions in life, you had people around you supporting you, so you can have sympathy for and empathy for the people that didn't have that support. You could understand if you went in that world and you didn't have the family and that.

For you totally. I think another thing was just opening my eyes to how many guys that were in prison who you felt like the writing was probably on the wall since they were a kid. They just grew up an environment where this was always the way that they were going to end up. And for me, growing up with privilege and being well educated, I just felt like I felt like more of a kockhead for bending up there. So that was another reason.

For you totally. I think another thing was just opening my eyes to how many guys that were in prison who you felt like the writing was probably on the wall since they were a kid. They just grew up an environment where this was always the way that they were going to end up. And for me, growing up with privilege and being well educated, I just felt like I felt like more of a kockhead for bending up there. So that was another reason.

Okay, so there's some shame that comes with that that I can't say you didn't understand m childhood.

Okay, so there's some shame that comes with that that I can't say you didn't understand m childhood.

Yeah, yeah, totally was. I was to go out and do something better than that.

Yeah, yeah, totally was. I was to go out and do something better than that.

But look, I think I think it's worked in your situation. I think that is a system system working. Where it's sad is if you've gone in there with that attitude and the system was that rough to you, and that that tough that you've you've come out worse than what you went in.

But look, I think I think it's worked in your situation. I think that is a system system working. Where it's sad is if you've gone in there with that attitude and the system was that rough to you, and that that tough that you've you've come out worse than what you went in.

Yep, that's and you would.

Yep, that's and you would.

It's a horrible place, isn't I did that series Breaking Badness and spent time in that maximum security prison and spent a couple of weeks there, and you're just it's groundhog Day, isn't it? Every every day? And you can see how it breaks people.