The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy a side of life the average persons never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, staid, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. If I said the name Cassie Sainsbury, a lot of people wouldn't recognize the name. But if I said cocaine Cassie, I'm sure it would resonate with people. Well, the fact is that that is the same person. And today we're going to be speaking to Cassie Sainsbury and find out a little bit about the person she is and talk to her about her time, where she spent three years in the Colombian prison. She's only twenty two years of age at the time, a young lady from South Australia, and I can't personally think of a more terrifying place to spend a couple of years. We've been trying to get Cassie on I Catch Killers for a while and she's agreed to come on the podcast. So Cassie Sainsbury, Welcome to I Catch Killers.

The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detective sy a side of life the average persons never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, staid, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world. Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. If I said the name Cassie Sainsbury, a lot of people wouldn't recognize the name. But if I said cocaine Cassie, I'm sure it would resonate with people. Well, the fact is that that is the same person. And today we're going to be speaking to Cassie Sainsbury and find out a little bit about the person she is and talk to her about her time, where she spent three years in the Colombian prison. She's only twenty two years of age at the time, a young lady from South Australia, and I can't personally think of a more terrifying place to spend a couple of years. We've been trying to get Cassie on I Catch Killers for a while and she's agreed to come on the podcast. So Cassie Sainsbury, Welcome to I Catch Killers.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Well, I've heard so much about you, like I'm sure most people in Australia have heard about you and speaking to you before the podcast, and when we caught up yesterday it became apparent to me that the perception that people have of you is not necessarily the type of person that you are. And yeah, we've got a long time to sit down and have a chat now, and I'd really like to find out.

Well, I've heard so much about you, like I'm sure most people in Australia have heard about you and speaking to you before the podcast, and when we caught up yesterday it became apparent to me that the perception that people have of you is not necessarily the type of person that you are. And yeah, we've got a long time to sit down and have a chat now, and I'd really like to find out.

Who you are so absolutely.

Who you are so absolutely.

I have spent last couple of days reading your book titled Cocaine Cassie, and I've got to say what you experience in the Colombian prison, I've got to say to me, it seems like one of the most terrifying places you could be did you at any time in the three or so years that you spent in the prison think you weren't going to make it?

I have spent last couple of days reading your book titled Cocaine Cassie, and I've got to say what you experience in the Colombian prison, I've got to say to me, it seems like one of the most terrifying places you could be did you at any time in the three or so years that you spent in the prison think you weren't going to make it?

Hm, There was actually so many occasions when I just didn't think I personally had the ability to keep pushing through certain obstacles that kept coming up throughout the time in prison. But only that, I mean from that moment, the moment I walked in that prison, I never thought i'd leave it, To be honest, I thought I would definitely come out in a body bag, and it was a bit of a judgmental thought on my behalf as well. Obviously, walking through the prison, I was face with some interesting characters and instantly you go, oh, crap, I'm not safe here type thing. And it's just through all visual because obviously there's some interesting looking people in there. And I learned very quickly not to judge a book by its cover, but only that it was terribly hard to just keep finding a reason to keep pushing and get through it all at the end of the day, which was I think for me, once I finally found my way through, I guess the dark period that most people would actually face being in prison. It was this I wasn't going to let this prison, this time be the end of me. It wasn't going to be it for me because it wasn't who I am.

Hm, There was actually so many occasions when I just didn't think I personally had the ability to keep pushing through certain obstacles that kept coming up throughout the time in prison. But only that, I mean from that moment, the moment I walked in that prison, I never thought i'd leave it, To be honest, I thought I would definitely come out in a body bag, and it was a bit of a judgmental thought on my behalf as well. Obviously, walking through the prison, I was face with some interesting characters and instantly you go, oh, crap, I'm not safe here type thing. And it's just through all visual because obviously there's some interesting looking people in there. And I learned very quickly not to judge a book by its cover, but only that it was terribly hard to just keep finding a reason to keep pushing and get through it all at the end of the day, which was I think for me, once I finally found my way through, I guess the dark period that most people would actually face being in prison. It was this I wasn't going to let this prison, this time be the end of me. It wasn't going to be it for me because it wasn't who I am.

Will you show to my way of thinking? You showed amazing strength to get through it. And my observation is you came through it with humanity as well, which is not easy in a place like that, like I think it was in your book, but some scary looking characters.

Will you show to my way of thinking? You showed amazing strength to get through it. And my observation is you came through it with humanity as well, which is not easy in a place like that, like I think it was in your book, but some scary looking characters.

Characters a lady.

Characters a lady.

That had her cheeks sliced so she could stick a tongue out through the holes in the side of a cheek.

That had her cheeks sliced so she could stick a tongue out through the holes in the side of a cheek.

That would freak me out.

That would freak me out.

She was probably one of my first encounters, and she absolutely scared the begizis out of me. And you know when you see something and you don't want to look, but then you're so intrigued that you look. That was kind of what happened with her a lot, because it was just so full on seeing someone like that with so many scars, so many cuts everywhere, and I just she was scary.

She was probably one of my first encounters, and she absolutely scared the begizis out of me. And you know when you see something and you don't want to look, but then you're so intrigued that you look. That was kind of what happened with her a lot, because it was just so full on seeing someone like that with so many scars, so many cuts everywhere, and I just she was scary.

She was so scary, and she made herself known to you. It wasn't like you just walked past her and let bygones be bygones. She came up and got right in your face.

She was so scary, and she made herself known to you. It wasn't like you just walked past her and let bygones be bygones. She came up and got right in your face.

Yeah, straight away. And I still to this day, I don't actually really know how I made an enemy of her so quickly. But then again, being a foreigner, and I think this is something that I did go into a little bit in the book, being a foreigner and being that it was almost this instant disrespect to them, and being obviously what they call a gringer. I come from money. I have money. I have it. I was probably you know, stashing it everywhere when I walked in prison, which is presume what they thought I had done. And so it was just this huge intimidation straight away, and I don't know what she thought of me, because I I, oh, my goodness, I was so close to poop and myself because it was just so scary, And I can't even sometimes find the words speaking out loud to explain how scary it is to walk through a prison in a different country, not understanding anything, and then start getting intimidated by these people and still having them like right here in your face and not understanding anything, and then later obviously going through a great ordeal with this lady.

Yeah, straight away. And I still to this day, I don't actually really know how I made an enemy of her so quickly. But then again, being a foreigner, and I think this is something that I did go into a little bit in the book, being a foreigner and being that it was almost this instant disrespect to them, and being obviously what they call a gringer. I come from money. I have money. I have it. I was probably you know, stashing it everywhere when I walked in prison, which is presume what they thought I had done. And so it was just this huge intimidation straight away, and I don't know what she thought of me, because I I, oh, my goodness, I was so close to poop and myself because it was just so scary, And I can't even sometimes find the words speaking out loud to explain how scary it is to walk through a prison in a different country, not understanding anything, and then start getting intimidated by these people and still having them like right here in your face and not understanding anything, and then later obviously going through a great ordeal with this lady.

Yeah, well, let's to put it in context. It was the first time you travel overseas.

Yeah, well, let's to put it in context. It was the first time you travel overseas.

I believe.

I believe.

Yes, okay, you didn't speak Spanish. No, you had blonde hair in the South American prison. Yeah, it's not like I would imagine being in prison. The way that you want to get through it is not stick your head up, not be noticed, and just do your time and keep out of everyone's way.

Yes, okay, you didn't speak Spanish. No, you had blonde hair in the South American prison. Yeah, it's not like I would imagine being in prison. The way that you want to get through it is not stick your head up, not be noticed, and just do your time and keep out of everyone's way.

That was an option available to you from day one? Was it?

That was an option available to you from day one? Was it?

It wasn't. And it didn't matter how much I tried to stay out of people's way, stay hidden in cells, it didn't. It just obviously it didn't help as well that there was such a public awareness that obviously, you know, even over in Colombia, my whole case was still on TV over there, So even if I'd gone in and no one known who I was or anything, they were still seeing it on the TV and going, oh, if she's on the TV, she must have money. You know what can we get out of her? You know what, can we sell stuff? Can we go to the media, this and that? And it was just if I was getting attached from the outside, I was getting attacked on the inside. I was getting I had so many issues between obviously my family stuff as well, so there was no real time for me to kind of get my own head together and actually worked myself through those first initial months. It was an absolute nightmare.

It wasn't. And it didn't matter how much I tried to stay out of people's way, stay hidden in cells, it didn't. It just obviously it didn't help as well that there was such a public awareness that obviously, you know, even over in Colombia, my whole case was still on TV over there, So even if I'd gone in and no one known who I was or anything, they were still seeing it on the TV and going, oh, if she's on the TV, she must have money. You know what can we get out of her? You know what, can we sell stuff? Can we go to the media, this and that? And it was just if I was getting attached from the outside, I was getting attacked on the inside. I was getting I had so many issues between obviously my family stuff as well, so there was no real time for me to kind of get my own head together and actually worked myself through those first initial months. It was an absolute nightmare.

And I think a lot of people, even the way you talk about it there, and this came across not just through your book, but in the chat that we had the other day, that people had this misconception that, oh, you're doing it easy in prison because you smile when you talk. I suspect and this might be the old copy in me coming. You smile when you get nervous too, and I think people sort of misinterpret that that, oh know, this was a walk in the park. It was so far from a walk in the park. We're going to talk about it later on in the podcast, but we're talking some horrible sexual assaults, some violence, stabbing, all sorts of brutality that occurred in there. And I'll save it up, but I'm still traumatized by what happened to you in the dentist chair. And I don't think anyone will go to the dentist after that. But yeah, it was a foreign environment for you, and I just I want listeners, because we've got time on a podcast like this, I want listeners to get a sense of who you were growing up. Describe your childhood, those bits that those bits that you're comfortable in describing.

And I think a lot of people, even the way you talk about it there, and this came across not just through your book, but in the chat that we had the other day, that people had this misconception that, oh, you're doing it easy in prison because you smile when you talk. I suspect and this might be the old copy in me coming. You smile when you get nervous too, and I think people sort of misinterpret that that, oh know, this was a walk in the park. It was so far from a walk in the park. We're going to talk about it later on in the podcast, but we're talking some horrible sexual assaults, some violence, stabbing, all sorts of brutality that occurred in there. And I'll save it up, but I'm still traumatized by what happened to you in the dentist chair. And I don't think anyone will go to the dentist after that. But yeah, it was a foreign environment for you, and I just I want listeners, because we've got time on a podcast like this, I want listeners to get a sense of who you were growing up. Describe your childhood, those bits that those bits that you're comfortable in describing.

Yeah, no, no, that's okay. My childhood was I had it. I had a good childhood to a certain degree. I had a dad who constantly provided, never went without anything. But then I also had my dad. My dad is very straight. My dad grew up with he was, you know, from boys, and then he had two girls and my sister. My sister was my sister, and then there was me and he was so he had me in this little bubble. I rarely went out, you know after hours. I didn't go to parties, I didn't drink, I didn't do any of these sorts of things. And I think because there was always so many there was so much around revolved around my dad, that it was this constant fear of letting him down. Because obviously when my mom left me with my dad when I was twelve or thirteen, that broke my world. Oh I'm going to get a bit michell. It absolutely just one day my mum and dad were arguing and then she just up and left, and that there my world just broke because then I watched the strongest man in my life break. It was it was scary to see this man just absolutely break through that period of time, and I was there with him and I and I went through everything with him, and so there was always this constant fear of letting him down or seeing him, you know, be let down, that I wasn't going in the right path, and it ends up controlling you a little bit that you live with this constant fear of And then obviously my sexuality came into it as well because my dad's side of the family they're Anglican Christians, and so then I was terrified of coming out. I lived in small towns. I got bullied because somebody said at a younger age that I was gay. So there was just this constant background of being bullied, being bullied because I was fat, being bullied because I got my hair cut a certain way, being bullied because I didn't wear may cut, being bullied because I didn't go out partying. It was so having this super low self esteem, this fear of failure, being stuck in a closet and not wanting to be bullied more because I'd already copped so much. It was very very overbearing growing up with those situations. Obviously, there are a lot worse and worse things people can go through, but to someone I think I went through this through the age of thirteen, thirteen to seventeen, So it's really those age where you start finding a personality, start finding some character, and I just that kept falling down further and further because I just I didn't like myself.

Yeah, no, no, that's okay. My childhood was I had it. I had a good childhood to a certain degree. I had a dad who constantly provided, never went without anything. But then I also had my dad. My dad is very straight. My dad grew up with he was, you know, from boys, and then he had two girls and my sister. My sister was my sister, and then there was me and he was so he had me in this little bubble. I rarely went out, you know after hours. I didn't go to parties, I didn't drink, I didn't do any of these sorts of things. And I think because there was always so many there was so much around revolved around my dad, that it was this constant fear of letting him down. Because obviously when my mom left me with my dad when I was twelve or thirteen, that broke my world. Oh I'm going to get a bit michell. It absolutely just one day my mum and dad were arguing and then she just up and left, and that there my world just broke because then I watched the strongest man in my life break. It was it was scary to see this man just absolutely break through that period of time, and I was there with him and I and I went through everything with him, and so there was always this constant fear of letting him down or seeing him, you know, be let down, that I wasn't going in the right path, and it ends up controlling you a little bit that you live with this constant fear of And then obviously my sexuality came into it as well because my dad's side of the family they're Anglican Christians, and so then I was terrified of coming out. I lived in small towns. I got bullied because somebody said at a younger age that I was gay. So there was just this constant background of being bullied, being bullied because I was fat, being bullied because I got my hair cut a certain way, being bullied because I didn't wear may cut, being bullied because I didn't go out partying. It was so having this super low self esteem, this fear of failure, being stuck in a closet and not wanting to be bullied more because I'd already copped so much. It was very very overbearing growing up with those situations. Obviously, there are a lot worse and worse things people can go through, but to someone I think I went through this through the age of thirteen, thirteen to seventeen, So it's really those age where you start finding a personality, start finding some character, and I just that kept falling down further and further because I just I didn't like myself.

Yeah, thanks for sharing that, because when you look back at those crucial years, it does have a dramatic effect on the person you turn out to be. And unpacking a few of those things like marriage, break up. You never know how it's going to impact on the children, but you know it's going to impact on the children. And I can imagine you carrying the burden of trying to protect your father even though he's your father because the mother, your mother's left, so all sorts of issues issues there. And on this podcast, you're not the first person that's come out and said how traumatic their childhood was because they were suppressing their sexuality. We've had tough guy blokes growing up in country towns where they couldn't come out because the last person they saw come out as gay was bashed and by the father's friends and the stigma, and you look at it you look at it now and you think, well, what's the issue. But the world was a different place not that long ago, and I would imagine a country town in South Australia would have a different view than say where we're recording in the West Sydney about someone coming out as gay. So all those things do impact on you, and you know the fact that you share it and even sharing it it still brings up those emotions. So we get you to seventeen, you're stunted. Stunted in terms of your emotional development. I think we're saying that in the kindest way. What sort of life were you're looking for as a seventeen year old? You were trying to break out and find your feet.

Yeah, thanks for sharing that, because when you look back at those crucial years, it does have a dramatic effect on the person you turn out to be. And unpacking a few of those things like marriage, break up. You never know how it's going to impact on the children, but you know it's going to impact on the children. And I can imagine you carrying the burden of trying to protect your father even though he's your father because the mother, your mother's left, so all sorts of issues issues there. And on this podcast, you're not the first person that's come out and said how traumatic their childhood was because they were suppressing their sexuality. We've had tough guy blokes growing up in country towns where they couldn't come out because the last person they saw come out as gay was bashed and by the father's friends and the stigma, and you look at it you look at it now and you think, well, what's the issue. But the world was a different place not that long ago, and I would imagine a country town in South Australia would have a different view than say where we're recording in the West Sydney about someone coming out as gay. So all those things do impact on you, and you know the fact that you share it and even sharing it it still brings up those emotions. So we get you to seventeen, you're stunted. Stunted in terms of your emotional development. I think we're saying that in the kindest way. What sort of life were you're looking for as a seventeen year old? You were trying to break out and find your feet.

Yeah. I think there was a lot of paths that I wanted to go down, and at one point I wanted to be a chef and I really focused on that, and then there was this huge breakdown, another family breakdown with my mom and my stepdad, which kind of caused me to actually head back from the city to your peninsula. Whereas I decided that I needed to find a different passion. Something that has always been inside of me is I want to help people, doesn't matter in what sense, I just wanted to help people. So then I started thinking about obviously fitness and nutrition and trying to help people that have that very similar body this morphia aspect. As I said, I grew up being bullied about my parents, so it was wanting to, I guess, help people feel better about that and finish year twelve, then I started studying fitness and nutrition. It's doing really well. I had a boyfriend, and you know what, it was hard. It was so hard having a boyfriend because there's just no sexual attraction when you don't like the opposite sex. So being in this relation where someone constantly obviously wants the intimacy and you almost feel like you can't you can't connect. So the relationship was really touch and go as it was and then, but at the same time he was still there. It was almost being accustomed to just having him there, you know, not being alone, because I had this fear of being alone, because being alone means that I was left with my own thoughts. I had failed at being able to I guess be somebody is company type thing. It was heaps of the things that go through your head.

Yeah. I think there was a lot of paths that I wanted to go down, and at one point I wanted to be a chef and I really focused on that, and then there was this huge breakdown, another family breakdown with my mom and my stepdad, which kind of caused me to actually head back from the city to your peninsula. Whereas I decided that I needed to find a different passion. Something that has always been inside of me is I want to help people, doesn't matter in what sense, I just wanted to help people. So then I started thinking about obviously fitness and nutrition and trying to help people that have that very similar body this morphia aspect. As I said, I grew up being bullied about my parents, so it was wanting to, I guess, help people feel better about that and finish year twelve, then I started studying fitness and nutrition. It's doing really well. I had a boyfriend, and you know what, it was hard. It was so hard having a boyfriend because there's just no sexual attraction when you don't like the opposite sex. So being in this relation where someone constantly obviously wants the intimacy and you almost feel like you can't you can't connect. So the relationship was really touch and go as it was and then, but at the same time he was still there. It was almost being accustomed to just having him there, you know, not being alone, because I had this fear of being alone, because being alone means that I was left with my own thoughts. I had failed at being able to I guess be somebody is company type thing. It was heaps of the things that go through your head.

Well, Cassie, what you're saying there. I think it's you know, it's what we are as humans. We want that companionship and all that. And you found yourself in the situation that obviously wasn't ideal if you weren't sexually attracted to the person you're going out with. So I would imagine you're fighting a lot of demons, personal demons that in that situation.

Well, Cassie, what you're saying there. I think it's you know, it's what we are as humans. We want that companionship and all that. And you found yourself in the situation that obviously wasn't ideal if you weren't sexually attracted to the person you're going out with. So I would imagine you're fighting a lot of demons, personal demons that in that situation.

Yeah, And and this guy in particular, he was kind of he was my boyfriend coming out of school, and it was always this if I've got a boyfriend and no one will say anything type thing. Ah, little do people know that Obviously one of his best friends was gay, and I had the biggest crash on her. But it was fine.

Yeah, And and this guy in particular, he was kind of he was my boyfriend coming out of school, and it was always this if I've got a boyfriend and no one will say anything type thing. Ah, little do people know that Obviously one of his best friends was gay, and I had the biggest crash on her. But it was fine.

But so.

But so.

Anyway, UH finished my PT stuff and then I was doing mobile PT and it was doing really well. And so then I kind of decided, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna believe in myself. I really have to put myself on the line and actually put it all out there. So I went and decided to open a gym.

Anyway, UH finished my PT stuff and then I was doing mobile PT and it was doing really well. And so then I kind of decided, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna believe in myself. I really have to put myself on the line and actually put it all out there. So I went and decided to open a gym.

How old were you then?

How old were you then?

I was nineteen?

I was nineteen?

Pretty gutsy.

Pretty gutsy.

Oh, it was terribly gutsy. Uh, I use all of my savings to buy all the equipment that I could buy, got alone to get everything else that I needed, and theoretically it was fool proof. So I thought, if I'd done so well mobile and had all these clients, well, even if I don't get that many memberships, I've still got my clients to fall back on. But unfortunately, probably about four or five months into it, I started getting really depressed, obviously watching this year that I've just invested everything that I have in paying off a debt for a loan, paying rent, and I realized that I wasn't moving forward, but I was actually starting to move backwards, and I was terrified, and I went into this really dark place again, popping back to obviously being in a relationship, but I didn't really want to be in. It was this, it was there, and we ended up having We ended up breaking up, and again I felt like I had failed because I can't even keep I can't even keep someone around, and so I actually tried to kill myself. I just felt like I didn't want to feel pain anymore, so over this constant disappointment within myself, never being able to do anything good enough. And when I came to I was sitting. I was in the Yorktown Hospital and I still remember this so well because the nurse that I had, she was almost angry with me that I was there, and she was trying to get my ivy into my arm, and so she stuck the ivy in, and she I have sinking veins when I get nervous and whatnot with it. I don't like needles, and so she stuck it in missed the vein and while she's got the ivy needle in, she's moving around trying to get the vein and it was so antagonizing, and she kind of looked at me and she goes, well, you're you gonna do this again? It's and it stuck to me and I was like, this is what you say to someone right now, like I'm not in a good place. And I was angry. I was so angry that I that I was there because I really did not want to be there.

Oh, it was terribly gutsy. Uh, I use all of my savings to buy all the equipment that I could buy, got alone to get everything else that I needed, and theoretically it was fool proof. So I thought, if I'd done so well mobile and had all these clients, well, even if I don't get that many memberships, I've still got my clients to fall back on. But unfortunately, probably about four or five months into it, I started getting really depressed, obviously watching this year that I've just invested everything that I have in paying off a debt for a loan, paying rent, and I realized that I wasn't moving forward, but I was actually starting to move backwards, and I was terrified, and I went into this really dark place again, popping back to obviously being in a relationship, but I didn't really want to be in. It was this, it was there, and we ended up having We ended up breaking up, and again I felt like I had failed because I can't even keep I can't even keep someone around, and so I actually tried to kill myself. I just felt like I didn't want to feel pain anymore, so over this constant disappointment within myself, never being able to do anything good enough. And when I came to I was sitting. I was in the Yorktown Hospital and I still remember this so well because the nurse that I had, she was almost angry with me that I was there, and she was trying to get my ivy into my arm, and so she stuck the ivy in, and she I have sinking veins when I get nervous and whatnot with it. I don't like needles, and so she stuck it in missed the vein and while she's got the ivy needle in, she's moving around trying to get the vein and it was so antagonizing, and she kind of looked at me and she goes, well, you're you gonna do this again? It's and it stuck to me and I was like, this is what you say to someone right now, like I'm not in a good place. And I was angry. I was so angry that I that I was there because I really did not want to be there.

You did more than wake up.

You did more than wake up.

No, like I was. So I guess by so many years of all these feelings that I just felt like I couldn't keep doing it, that I didn't have that strength to keep pushing through and finding reasons or thinking that it was going to get better. So that happened. And then when I was actually this was over a Father's Day weekend, and obviously I didn't see my dad. I was in hospital for four days. Nobody came to visit me. Once I was alone because of my veins. They, as I said, I don't have good veins to get blood out. My nurses started trying to get blood out of the veins between my groin, like that was a pain that I don't So I was almost being alone, being stuck with my own thoughts, not being relatively happy that I was still there, and then not that I was being tortured, but in my head, it felt like I was being tortured. And then when I finally get released after being cleared by the psychiatrist, I go back to the house and coming back to an empty house and not just symbolically an empty house because I didn't have a partner anymore, literally an empty house. But then there was this quick moment there where I was like, sit happens. Everything happens for a reason, and I had to keep reminding myself that, you know, maybe this breakup's finally what I needed to find this strength to kind of go you know what I've hit rock bottom. Can't get any worse if I come out now, but I still couldn't.

No, like I was. So I guess by so many years of all these feelings that I just felt like I couldn't keep doing it, that I didn't have that strength to keep pushing through and finding reasons or thinking that it was going to get better. So that happened. And then when I was actually this was over a Father's Day weekend, and obviously I didn't see my dad. I was in hospital for four days. Nobody came to visit me. Once I was alone because of my veins. They, as I said, I don't have good veins to get blood out. My nurses started trying to get blood out of the veins between my groin, like that was a pain that I don't So I was almost being alone, being stuck with my own thoughts, not being relatively happy that I was still there, and then not that I was being tortured, but in my head, it felt like I was being tortured. And then when I finally get released after being cleared by the psychiatrist, I go back to the house and coming back to an empty house and not just symbolically an empty house because I didn't have a partner anymore, literally an empty house. But then there was this quick moment there where I was like, sit happens. Everything happens for a reason, and I had to keep reminding myself that, you know, maybe this breakup's finally what I needed to find this strength to kind of go you know what I've hit rock bottom. Can't get any worse if I come out now, but I still couldn't.

I just wanted to take you back to a comment that you made that and I understand this, and let's just clarify it, that said that what you went through, other people have gone through a lot worse. There's always someone that suffers more than you. But the point I want to say to you, because you've been very open, open with us talking about deeply personal personal issues, is that it's all relative, like of an impact. If the worst thing that's happened to you, it is the worst thing that's happened to you, if.

I just wanted to take you back to a comment that you made that and I understand this, and let's just clarify it, that said that what you went through, other people have gone through a lot worse. There's always someone that suffers more than you. But the point I want to say to you, because you've been very open, open with us talking about deeply personal personal issues, is that it's all relative, like of an impact. If the worst thing that's happened to you, it is the worst thing that's happened to you, if.

You know what I mean.

You know what I mean.

People are you know, there's different levels. We understand that, but you know what you're going through.

People are you know, there's different levels. We understand that, but you know what you're going through.

It's sad.

It's sad.

It's sad hearing you tell the story, and there's a lot of a lot of pain there. So I do get it. So I'm not sitting here going oh yeah, but other people have suffered suffered worse. This is what was impacting on you, and at that age to consider life might be better if you weren't here, that's quite quite hard to deal with. So you are well, you feel like you're rock bottom at that point in time, but you went further.

It's sad hearing you tell the story, and there's a lot of a lot of pain there. So I do get it. So I'm not sitting here going oh yeah, but other people have suffered suffered worse. This is what was impacting on you, and at that age to consider life might be better if you weren't here, that's quite quite hard to deal with. So you are well, you feel like you're rock bottom at that point in time, but you went further.

Yes, okay, tell us through the next how you got.

Yes, okay, tell us through the next how you got.

From that situation where your life went. And let me say this, everyone, and so many people have sat where you're sitting speaking to us on I catchkillers. A lot of us make poor life choices. And you're not judged by the choices you made in the past. You judge by the way you've lived your life in totality, So I say that to you, and I want you to feel comfortable in talking about where your life took you.

From that situation where your life went. And let me say this, everyone, and so many people have sat where you're sitting speaking to us on I catchkillers. A lot of us make poor life choices. And you're not judged by the choices you made in the past. You judge by the way you've lived your life in totality, So I say that to you, and I want you to feel comfortable in talking about where your life took you.

Okay. So after that part of my life, I decided to live because unfortunately over well not unfortunately, but in that present moment of my life, there was always I was constantly going to be running into people that would be like, oh, you guys broke up. Why did you break up? Oh you tried to kill yourself. Oh that's you know, very dodgy. I decided that I needed to leave. I needed to start fresh. So I moved to Adelaide and straightway when I got a job at anytime fitness, I wasn't going to let that part fall down. And in the meantime, obviously switching my life from moving to Adelaide. I had to close down the gym, basically went into liquidation, then sold the equipment to pay off the loans, sold the equipment to pay off the rent contract as well, so that when I actually did leave, I wasn't owing anything to those things. It was a very quick moving process, and I think sometimes that's why people were like, oh, yeah, she just uped and left. But I didn't do it in the wrong way, like I wasn't leaving things without having a solution to it, because I don't believe in that either. So I'd rather have nothing and start with nothing again, but have obviously taken responsibility that so I get to Adelaide. I'm working at anytime fitness doing okay, not great the work. I think back then working in a gym, it was very commission based, so it wasn't great. You worked a lot of hours and got nothing. Almost then obviously I met Scott, and I think when I met him, obviously both personal trainers, both kind of same, similar life situations, and it was just I almost saw him more as a as a friend, like I wanted a friend, and obviously we ended up getting together. I thought, Okay, maybe I'm not gay. Maybe it's just a thing. But within like the first two months straight away again couldn't handle the relationship. I couldn't handle intimacy. It was all it just just yeah, there's no other way I can say it, just.

Okay. So after that part of my life, I decided to live because unfortunately over well not unfortunately, but in that present moment of my life, there was always I was constantly going to be running into people that would be like, oh, you guys broke up. Why did you break up? Oh you tried to kill yourself. Oh that's you know, very dodgy. I decided that I needed to leave. I needed to start fresh. So I moved to Adelaide and straightway when I got a job at anytime fitness, I wasn't going to let that part fall down. And in the meantime, obviously switching my life from moving to Adelaide. I had to close down the gym, basically went into liquidation, then sold the equipment to pay off the loans, sold the equipment to pay off the rent contract as well, so that when I actually did leave, I wasn't owing anything to those things. It was a very quick moving process, and I think sometimes that's why people were like, oh, yeah, she just uped and left. But I didn't do it in the wrong way, like I wasn't leaving things without having a solution to it, because I don't believe in that either. So I'd rather have nothing and start with nothing again, but have obviously taken responsibility that so I get to Adelaide. I'm working at anytime fitness doing okay, not great the work. I think back then working in a gym, it was very commission based, so it wasn't great. You worked a lot of hours and got nothing. Almost then obviously I met Scott, and I think when I met him, obviously both personal trainers, both kind of same, similar life situations, and it was just I almost saw him more as a as a friend, like I wanted a friend, and obviously we ended up getting together. I thought, Okay, maybe I'm not gay. Maybe it's just a thing. But within like the first two months straight away again couldn't handle the relationship. I couldn't handle intimacy. It was all it just just yeah, there's no other way I can say it, just.

Like yeah, I think that's a very good description. If you're not into it, you're not in.

Like yeah, I think that's a very good description. If you're not into it, you're not in.

And so that relationship, there were moments where obviously Scott didn't work or he would work in certain jobs where pay probably wasn't that great, did a lot of he did a lot of festivals, a lot of things, a lot of sponding that he didn't need to do. And that is when obviously I in this whole time, I confided mocha, sorry, Spanish is coming out?

And so that relationship, there were moments where obviously Scott didn't work or he would work in certain jobs where pay probably wasn't that great, did a lot of he did a lot of festivals, a lot of things, a lot of sponding that he didn't need to do. And that is when obviously I in this whole time, I confided mocha, sorry, Spanish is coming out?

You speak Spanish?

You speak Spanish?

I confided a lot in a female friend acquaintance, and she we've known each other since studying personal training, but I never kind of saw her as more than just this acquaintance really until we started seeing each other more. We started working around the same gym. We did all our practical around the same gym, which was great. I thought, oh, I've got a friend. I've got a female friend. And I instantly mistook I guess the affection and the time that she was giving me as she liked me, and it was nice. It was finally nice to see that I'd managed to kind of get a woman's attention, because I constantly it's so easy to get a man's attention when you don't want it, but then when you want a woman's attention, you don't get it.

I confided a lot in a female friend acquaintance, and she we've known each other since studying personal training, but I never kind of saw her as more than just this acquaintance really until we started seeing each other more. We started working around the same gym. We did all our practical around the same gym, which was great. I thought, oh, I've got a friend. I've got a female friend. And I instantly mistook I guess the affection and the time that she was giving me as she liked me, and it was nice. It was finally nice to see that I'd managed to kind of get a woman's attention, because I constantly it's so easy to get a man's attention when you don't want it, but then when you want a woman's attention, you don't get it.

Well, in the reading of you're discussing that in the book to me, i'd describe it. You were flattered by it, like to buy the attention, and a little bit excited.

Well, in the reading of you're discussing that in the book to me, i'd describe it. You were flattered by it, like to buy the attention, and a little bit excited.

About absolutely, because it was really the first woman who kind of made me feel special. It was okay to be, you know, a disaster disguised in a human being and still trying to move forward, so confined everything in her she was my best friend slash crush. And it started happening that she just started making these little hints, subtle hints, just little comments that made me go, oh, hang on a minute, is that me or did she actually you know, hint that you know, maybe she's kind of in the closet, or she might be gay, or she might be by maybe you know, she likes me. But she never actually said, hey, you know what looks I like you. She really kept it quite.

About absolutely, because it was really the first woman who kind of made me feel special. It was okay to be, you know, a disaster disguised in a human being and still trying to move forward, so confined everything in her she was my best friend slash crush. And it started happening that she just started making these little hints, subtle hints, just little comments that made me go, oh, hang on a minute, is that me or did she actually you know, hint that you know, maybe she's kind of in the closet, or she might be gay, or she might be by maybe you know, she likes me. But she never actually said, hey, you know what looks I like you. She really kept it quite.

Enough to keep you interested.

Enough to keep you interested.

Yeah, kind of you know, you've got like something just right here and you want it, but you never get it. Yeah. And then obviously she knew that I was struggling financially, and she kept saying, you know, I work in this club, I've run it, we do really well. You should come in and help me. I've got some issues. I can't trust stuff. And she never actually really kind of said, you know, it's a it's a brothel, because she kept saying, you know, this club, this gentleman's club. And because I was I came from a bubble, I was like, cool, you know she's a pete, so it must be something to do with that. So when she obviously obviously that, you know, she told me she needed me, she needed someone she could trust, and I was like, I can do this. I can be this person that she needs, and so I went. I went to Sydney, and I think that is when everything just went from bad to worse.

Yeah, kind of you know, you've got like something just right here and you want it, but you never get it. Yeah. And then obviously she knew that I was struggling financially, and she kept saying, you know, I work in this club, I've run it, we do really well. You should come in and help me. I've got some issues. I can't trust stuff. And she never actually really kind of said, you know, it's a it's a brothel, because she kept saying, you know, this club, this gentleman's club. And because I was I came from a bubble, I was like, cool, you know she's a pete, so it must be something to do with that. So when she obviously obviously that, you know, she told me she needed me, she needed someone she could trust, and I was like, I can do this. I can be this person that she needs, and so I went. I went to Sydney, and I think that is when everything just went from bad to worse.

Yeah, he in my sitting as a wise ex cop. But yeah, if you start to get involved in gentlemen's clubs, brothels or whatever, there is there's some good people involved, but there's some shady type characters there that and I look at you now with all the worldly experience of surviving in the foreign prison, and I would imagine back, yeah, pre time in Columbia, you would have been pretty naive, naive thing coming to the big smake in Sydney and hanging around with people like that.

Yeah, he in my sitting as a wise ex cop. But yeah, if you start to get involved in gentlemen's clubs, brothels or whatever, there is there's some good people involved, but there's some shady type characters there that and I look at you now with all the worldly experience of surviving in the foreign prison, and I would imagine back, yeah, pre time in Columbia, you would have been pretty naive, naive thing coming to the big smake in Sydney and hanging around with people like that.

So I'd see you as what I would term very vulnerable in the vulnerable situation.

So I'd see you as what I would term very vulnerable in the vulnerable situation.

Yeah, And I think that was really what she liked, because even later on, you know, we had a conversation. I was like, well, why did you study in Adelaide, Like what's to do there? And she just said, oh, no, you know, I prefer smaller towns. And obviously when she said that, I didn't really think much of it. But now with everything that I know, I kind of go, it's a bit of a phishing expedition, don't you think.

Yeah, And I think that was really what she liked, because even later on, you know, we had a conversation. I was like, well, why did you study in Adelaide, Like what's to do there? And she just said, oh, no, you know, I prefer smaller towns. And obviously when she said that, I didn't really think much of it. But now with everything that I know, I kind of go, it's a bit of a phishing expedition, don't you think.

You're looking back with benefit of hindsight. Yeah, yeah, she's found someone and look at this young girl that's pretty naive and I can lead her on.

You're looking back with benefit of hindsight. Yeah, yeah, she's found someone and look at this young girl that's pretty naive and I can lead her on.

That type of thing.

That type of thing.

I think it's important what we've talked about there, because I certainly got that from the book, and I didn't realize your full story because I've been dripped fed like everyone else. You see the headlines, you read the article in the paper, or see a couple of TV clips, but that's giving a sense of what you brought you into that world, into that world where. And I don't want to go into the full detail and full details of your charges. The facts are that it was twenty seventeen you were caught leaving Bogatar Airport with five point eight kilograms of cocaine in your luggage. I know you've been You've been criticized for giving varying aversions of events and different things in media interviews and court records and different things. I'm saying this, and it's not you pulling back because if I wanted to explore that, we could explore that back. I've made the decision. I don't want to go into those details. I think we can agree that you made a mistake and you paid for it very very dearly in terms of what happened to you in prison. I want to talk about your time in prison, and in the discussion I had with you the other day and comments i've heard you say that you know you did the wrong thing, You've paid the price for it, and you're sorry for the people that you hurt and you've got your regrets. Is that fair to say a summation of I'm just talking about the offense that you were convicted of.

I think it's important what we've talked about there, because I certainly got that from the book, and I didn't realize your full story because I've been dripped fed like everyone else. You see the headlines, you read the article in the paper, or see a couple of TV clips, but that's giving a sense of what you brought you into that world, into that world where. And I don't want to go into the full detail and full details of your charges. The facts are that it was twenty seventeen you were caught leaving Bogatar Airport with five point eight kilograms of cocaine in your luggage. I know you've been You've been criticized for giving varying aversions of events and different things in media interviews and court records and different things. I'm saying this, and it's not you pulling back because if I wanted to explore that, we could explore that back. I've made the decision. I don't want to go into those details. I think we can agree that you made a mistake and you paid for it very very dearly in terms of what happened to you in prison. I want to talk about your time in prison, and in the discussion I had with you the other day and comments i've heard you say that you know you did the wrong thing, You've paid the price for it, and you're sorry for the people that you hurt and you've got your regrets. Is that fair to say a summation of I'm just talking about the offense that you were convicted of.

Yeah. Absolutely, I think there's no doubt ever when I've accepted responsibility that I did the wrong thing, and I think the thing that I really wanted to I guess put out there. I guess the real situation behind everything that kind of got me there, because, as you said, so many different things came out. Obviously you know there was a version. There was a version where my family spoke out, where Scott spoke out, where my lovely sixty minutes interview, and so it was all stopped, chucked mixed together, and so really, by the time I had an actual chance to sit down and say, well, actually let's start right at the beginning and go through it, it didn't matter anymore. The important thing in all of that is that I've never not tried to take responsibility that I did the wrong thing, Because essentially, if I'm telling you the backstory, I could turn to go, no, it was it wasn't me. But I think it's more so it's it's a cautious, cautious tail of really, how you can get there and what can happen.

Yeah. Absolutely, I think there's no doubt ever when I've accepted responsibility that I did the wrong thing, and I think the thing that I really wanted to I guess put out there. I guess the real situation behind everything that kind of got me there, because, as you said, so many different things came out. Obviously you know there was a version. There was a version where my family spoke out, where Scott spoke out, where my lovely sixty minutes interview, and so it was all stopped, chucked mixed together, and so really, by the time I had an actual chance to sit down and say, well, actually let's start right at the beginning and go through it, it didn't matter anymore. The important thing in all of that is that I've never not tried to take responsibility that I did the wrong thing, Because essentially, if I'm telling you the backstory, I could turn to go, no, it was it wasn't me. But I think it's more so it's it's a cautious, cautious tail of really, how you can get there and what can happen.

Well, I think if any good comes from this outside of that you've turned your life around and the things that you're doing is it is a cautionary tale. Like and that's why I wanted to spell out who you were up until that point, because I do get tired of people sitting and judging people on the they've done this, they've done that, therefore they must be a bad person. Let's take a step back, let's go a little bit further, and what was what led you to that situation?

Well, I think if any good comes from this outside of that you've turned your life around and the things that you're doing is it is a cautionary tale. Like and that's why I wanted to spell out who you were up until that point, because I do get tired of people sitting and judging people on the they've done this, they've done that, therefore they must be a bad person. Let's take a step back, let's go a little bit further, and what was what led you to that situation?

Now people could sit here.

Now people could sit here.

And go, oh, yeah, well I had a tough jobhood and I didn't do that, and we accept that. We accept that, but everyone's different in the way they react. And I'm not making excuses for you. It was a serious, serious charge, but you've got you, You've paid your paid your price, you served your debt to society. So I think we move on past that. Because I also saw with some of the interviews, I thought it was a bit of an ambush. And you've been interviewed before you'd even been sentencing, and you're in a foreign jail and you've been criticized for not giving people up or what I know about jail is you're not very well liked. If you're giving people up, and if you're talking on a national TV show giving people up, I can only imagine the reception you'd get back when you walk back into back into the prison. So I'm not making excuses for you, but I'm just I'm saying I understand why some of those interviews might have been misconstrued. You're in a very vulnerable situation. I sound like I'm defending you. Maybe you should have got me in to defend you at at the court matter. But what I'm saying is I understand it was a very complex situation.

And go, oh, yeah, well I had a tough jobhood and I didn't do that, and we accept that. We accept that, but everyone's different in the way they react. And I'm not making excuses for you. It was a serious, serious charge, but you've got you, You've paid your paid your price, you served your debt to society. So I think we move on past that. Because I also saw with some of the interviews, I thought it was a bit of an ambush. And you've been interviewed before you'd even been sentencing, and you're in a foreign jail and you've been criticized for not giving people up or what I know about jail is you're not very well liked. If you're giving people up, and if you're talking on a national TV show giving people up, I can only imagine the reception you'd get back when you walk back into back into the prison. So I'm not making excuses for you, but I'm just I'm saying I understand why some of those interviews might have been misconstrued. You're in a very vulnerable situation. I sound like I'm defending you. Maybe you should have got me in to defend you at at the court matter. But what I'm saying is I understand it was a very complex situation.

I think people don't think and.

I think people don't think and.

I really appreciate how vulnerable are circumstances you were in in that pre and then we're talking life and death, and that's what we're going to talk talk about from there. So let's move on past past the offence you. Let's take your wind it back to the point at the airport. You're walking through the airport and you're being stopped by customs and they've taken you to a back room. Tell us what happens from there.

I really appreciate how vulnerable are circumstances you were in in that pre and then we're talking life and death, and that's what we're going to talk talk about from there. So let's move on past past the offence you. Let's take your wind it back to the point at the airport. You're walking through the airport and you're being stopped by customs and they've taken you to a back room. Tell us what happens from there.

So I got tied up working with obviously the Gentlemen's Club and everyone that was involved there. And it was from there that with my lovely friend, the offer came up to go overseas, and well, they're just escalated from there. So I got into the back room, suitcase of city on the table still, and I've got these guards, these police and other people there and they're speaking at me because it was understanding anything. And one guy just goes suitcase, he pointed to it. I said yes, And then a translator that can't translate very well came in and on his phone he goes, can we can we can we open it? I said, that's fine, open up suitcase. They go is this clothing yours? Yes? It is. Then they pull aside and then there's this nice of bag in there. They pull it out start opening it, and I know people always criticize me on this, but obviously they unwrap. They're all individually wrap, and they unwrapped the first one box of headphones, and stupidly, it was almost relief when I saw it was just headphones. And then they started unboxing it. And obviously in example these headphones in the box, there's like a middle part that's got some cardboard packaging and they pulled out obviously a black role, and they're like, is this yours? And I'm like, well, I didn't put it there, if that's what you're asking. And then they basically said they were going to do a drug test on it. I can't remember the exact word that they use, and if it comes back, I do belie think it comes back blue. It's positive sounds. Yeah. Then basically came back blue and the astray you're under rest. And I stood there and I watched them keep unboxing these headphones and keep pulling out these roles, and I just I remember standing there looking at it. Not only was I so pissed off that I was going through this, I was hurt because of everything that I'd just gone through beforehand, obviously feeling completely betrayed by someone that I really liked to looking at all this cocaine and going, I'm never getting out of prison. I'd never really been around drugs ever in my life. Obviously in obviously a brothel, you see bits and pieces here and there, but not like that, and I just remember thinking, I'm going to die in prison because it just looked like so much.

So I got tied up working with obviously the Gentlemen's Club and everyone that was involved there. And it was from there that with my lovely friend, the offer came up to go overseas, and well, they're just escalated from there. So I got into the back room, suitcase of city on the table still, and I've got these guards, these police and other people there and they're speaking at me because it was understanding anything. And one guy just goes suitcase, he pointed to it. I said yes, And then a translator that can't translate very well came in and on his phone he goes, can we can we can we open it? I said, that's fine, open up suitcase. They go is this clothing yours? Yes? It is. Then they pull aside and then there's this nice of bag in there. They pull it out start opening it, and I know people always criticize me on this, but obviously they unwrap. They're all individually wrap, and they unwrapped the first one box of headphones, and stupidly, it was almost relief when I saw it was just headphones. And then they started unboxing it. And obviously in example these headphones in the box, there's like a middle part that's got some cardboard packaging and they pulled out obviously a black role, and they're like, is this yours? And I'm like, well, I didn't put it there, if that's what you're asking. And then they basically said they were going to do a drug test on it. I can't remember the exact word that they use, and if it comes back, I do belie think it comes back blue. It's positive sounds. Yeah. Then basically came back blue and the astray you're under rest. And I stood there and I watched them keep unboxing these headphones and keep pulling out these roles, and I just I remember standing there looking at it. Not only was I so pissed off that I was going through this, I was hurt because of everything that I'd just gone through beforehand, obviously feeling completely betrayed by someone that I really liked to looking at all this cocaine and going, I'm never getting out of prison. I'd never really been around drugs ever in my life. Obviously in obviously a brothel, you see bits and pieces here and there, but not like that, and I just remember thinking, I'm going to die in prison because it just looked like so much.

So when you were going to the airport and we don't need to go into details, but you knew you had something that you shouldn't have in your bag, but you were surprised when you saw the extent of it when the Border Force or the officers were going through the bag.

So when you were going to the airport and we don't need to go into details, but you knew you had something that you shouldn't have in your bag, but you were surprised when you saw the extent of it when the Border Force or the officers were going through the bag.

Yeah, that's correct. I did know that there's something I've input in there, but I didn't know how it was or what was in it. I obviously imagined the worst, but yeah, I just hadn't actually seen what it was or how it was coming or anything. So handcuffs on. I was very lucky that to a certain degree, I had a police officer who actually just covered up my handcuffs with a jacket so it didn't create too much attention. It's putting a van taken to an anti narcotic station which is literally just over the outside of the airport where I was questioned by the head commander via Google and he's like, you would you like a lawyer? And I said, yes, I would like a lawyer.

Yeah, that's correct. I did know that there's something I've input in there, but I didn't know how it was or what was in it. I obviously imagined the worst, but yeah, I just hadn't actually seen what it was or how it was coming or anything. So handcuffs on. I was very lucky that to a certain degree, I had a police officer who actually just covered up my handcuffs with a jacket so it didn't create too much attention. It's putting a van taken to an anti narcotic station which is literally just over the outside of the airport where I was questioned by the head commander via Google and he's like, you would you like a lawyer? And I said, yes, I would like a lawyer.

So when you say via Google with the phone, the translation through the phone, okay.

So when you say via Google with the phone, the translation through the phone, okay.

I said yes I would, And then obviously he tips back and he goes, oh, you know, it's pretty late, so it might take a little while to get here. Do you mind if I just asked you a couple of questions in the meantime and I in the situation and that it was. It wasn't like I could just go, well, no, you can't ask me questions. So through through obviously Google Translate, it was you know where you're from, where are we're staying? What do you do for a living? Are you married? Kids? Basic questions that I didn't really see as harmful. And then obviously do I have a contact number? And I and I'm like, there's this, there's my phone. And he goes, okay, is this your this is your phone? I'm saying, he's got my phone. He's like, is this your phone? I said, yes it is. He goes, can you can you unlock it? So I unlocked it and by the time he went back and he went to look it again, he locked and he goes, take the lock off. That's all, okay. So I took the look off and then he grabbed the phone and put it in his drawer. Okay, it's a bit a bit weird, but okay. Then he kept going going through some questions about what happened really that where I was I staying? Did I know anyone if I'd bought anything while I was in Columbia places i'd gone. And then I get taken away and sat down for by myself for like another three hours, and then I get brought this massive stack of paper like it would have been like this thick, and he goes, you need to sign all of this, and I said, but I don't know what I'm signing, Like how can I sign something? I'm like, where's where's the lawyer that I asked for? No lawyer not coming. And then obviously there's not really much I can do at that point, so I sign everything that I'm asked to sign. They still do a lot of manual fingerprinting over there, so ink and fingerprint all that sort of stuff. And then I get put in a van and taken to a medical center where obviously I'm attended by a nurse who sees that I've got bruises over me, obviously in between my legs and all the all sorts of places, and this nurse same thing translator like, are you okay? Do the police do this to you?

I said yes I would, And then obviously he tips back and he goes, oh, you know, it's pretty late, so it might take a little while to get here. Do you mind if I just asked you a couple of questions in the meantime and I in the situation and that it was. It wasn't like I could just go, well, no, you can't ask me questions. So through through obviously Google Translate, it was you know where you're from, where are we're staying? What do you do for a living? Are you married? Kids? Basic questions that I didn't really see as harmful. And then obviously do I have a contact number? And I and I'm like, there's this, there's my phone. And he goes, okay, is this your this is your phone? I'm saying, he's got my phone. He's like, is this your phone? I said, yes it is. He goes, can you can you unlock it? So I unlocked it and by the time he went back and he went to look it again, he locked and he goes, take the lock off. That's all, okay. So I took the look off and then he grabbed the phone and put it in his drawer. Okay, it's a bit a bit weird, but okay. Then he kept going going through some questions about what happened really that where I was I staying? Did I know anyone if I'd bought anything while I was in Columbia places i'd gone. And then I get taken away and sat down for by myself for like another three hours, and then I get brought this massive stack of paper like it would have been like this thick, and he goes, you need to sign all of this, and I said, but I don't know what I'm signing, Like how can I sign something? I'm like, where's where's the lawyer that I asked for? No lawyer not coming. And then obviously there's not really much I can do at that point, so I sign everything that I'm asked to sign. They still do a lot of manual fingerprinting over there, so ink and fingerprint all that sort of stuff. And then I get put in a van and taken to a medical center where obviously I'm attended by a nurse who sees that I've got bruises over me, obviously in between my legs and all the all sorts of places, and this nurse same thing translator like, are you okay? Do the police do this to you?

Those bruises between between your legs. That's from that it's referred to in your book the incident that's happened before the arrest at the airport.

Those bruises between between your legs. That's from that it's referred to in your book the incident that's happened before the arrest at the airport.

Yes, that's that's correct, it was violated before.

Yes, that's that's correct, it was violated before.

And again just to put in context with the version, this is the people that you were getting involved in in bringing the bag out of the country or taking the bag out of the country. And when you say you're violated, as described in the book, you're sexually sold.

And again just to put in context with the version, this is the people that you were getting involved in in bringing the bag out of the country or taking the bag out of the country. And when you say you're violated, as described in the book, you're sexually sold.

Yes, that's correct. Yeah, okay, So with all these bruises, the reason why they take you to see this medical center is obviously there's a lot of issues with police brutality over there, so if you get hit or anything by a police officer, they could potentially ruin the whole case. They take you to these medical centers and they make sure that you've been treated well through your arrest. So basically said that the police hadn't done anything to me, and this nurse is trying to talk to the police officer that's with me, and the police officers just saying I don't care, I don't care, I don't care what she's been through, I don't care what she needs. Just do what I ask and that's it. So then I get taken back to the same anti nicotic station and within two or three hours, I'm taken to the courthouse where I actually get a chance to meet my prosecutor before I and it was really it was so nerve wracking because although it was happening really quickly, at the same time there's this whole window of opportunity that if they don't manage to get you with your charges within the first I think it was thirty six hours of your arrest, they can't actually hold you in any kind of holding, sell or anything. They have to leave you on parole. So these people were moving really quickly because obviously I was arrested over Easter and over there they've got more public holidays and then I want to do with So it was they had to get it done really quickly. So I went into the courthouse met my prosecutor. She seemed like a genuine, genuinely nice, caring prosecutor as far as they go, and she basically said to me, like, what happened because it doesn't make sense? Ah, and I and I at that point you kind of like, do I trust you? Do? Can I speak to you? Because obviously I've been traumatized that the police are involved, that they've got this under the belt. That they've got all these people, and I go, who can I actually speak to? So it was it was really I was quite who do I trust? So I just said to her that I was that there were other people involved, didn't say who, and she just said, it's so obvious that you.

Yes, that's correct. Yeah, okay, So with all these bruises, the reason why they take you to see this medical center is obviously there's a lot of issues with police brutality over there, so if you get hit or anything by a police officer, they could potentially ruin the whole case. They take you to these medical centers and they make sure that you've been treated well through your arrest. So basically said that the police hadn't done anything to me, and this nurse is trying to talk to the police officer that's with me, and the police officers just saying I don't care, I don't care, I don't care what she's been through, I don't care what she needs. Just do what I ask and that's it. So then I get taken back to the same anti nicotic station and within two or three hours, I'm taken to the courthouse where I actually get a chance to meet my prosecutor before I and it was really it was so nerve wracking because although it was happening really quickly, at the same time there's this whole window of opportunity that if they don't manage to get you with your charges within the first I think it was thirty six hours of your arrest, they can't actually hold you in any kind of holding, sell or anything. They have to leave you on parole. So these people were moving really quickly because obviously I was arrested over Easter and over there they've got more public holidays and then I want to do with So it was they had to get it done really quickly. So I went into the courthouse met my prosecutor. She seemed like a genuine, genuinely nice, caring prosecutor as far as they go, and she basically said to me, like, what happened because it doesn't make sense? Ah, and I and I at that point you kind of like, do I trust you? Do? Can I speak to you? Because obviously I've been traumatized that the police are involved, that they've got this under the belt. That they've got all these people, and I go, who can I actually speak to? So it was it was really I was quite who do I trust? So I just said to her that I was that there were other people involved, didn't say who, and she just said, it's so obvious that you.

Are.

Are.

I'm all, you're the full guy. She said, Unfortunately, whether I can prove or you can prove, at the end of the day, the drug was in your suitcase and it was in your name, and you did the check in. She said, although you might have gone through a lot of things beforehand, that's the facts and you can't argue those facts, which was true. So went into having my charges officially put against me, and I was told that I was going to be facing up to four hundred and fifty six months of prison. It was like thirty years. And I'm sitting there because I do everything in months, and I'm like.

I'm all, you're the full guy. She said, Unfortunately, whether I can prove or you can prove, at the end of the day, the drug was in your suitcase and it was in your name, and you did the check in. She said, although you might have gone through a lot of things beforehand, that's the facts and you can't argue those facts, which was true. So went into having my charges officially put against me, and I was told that I was going to be facing up to four hundred and fifty six months of prison. It was like thirty years. And I'm sitting there because I do everything in months, and I'm like.

What, so what when all this was going on? What was going through your mind? Like this, You've gone from yeah, I'd say, a relatively sheltered life in terms of traveling internationally, and you know, this is the first time you're overseas. You're in the South American detention or being held by South American police, and you've been told you might be doing thirty years.

What, so what when all this was going on? What was going through your mind? Like this, You've gone from yeah, I'd say, a relatively sheltered life in terms of traveling internationally, and you know, this is the first time you're overseas. You're in the South American detention or being held by South American police, and you've been told you might be doing thirty years.

I I'm going to be fifty something when I get out. And although I laugh now, at the time, I was just I was cold, Like it was almost like this shock. I was frozen, and I'm doing the math, and I go, I'm going to be fifty fifty two when I get out, Like I'm not gonna have a life, Like I'm not I'm not gonna have anything. And it was absolutely mind numbing. And even even now when I still hear the amount of months that they initially said, it just sounds like an eternity. I hadn't even seen what their holding cells look like, little alone in the prison, and I was just worried about, you know, getting through those potential thirty years, not everything else that could potentially happen in between that as well being in those in those environments. So I was kind of like, okay, thirty years, right, what do I do? Like, how do I how do I how do I reduce it?