Sacred Lessons: Masculinity, AI, and the Great Law of Peace (with Mike de la Rocha)

What if the story we inherited — that being a man, or a nation, means holding it all together alone — is exactly backwards?

Recorded live at the BOOST Conference in Baratunde's adopted hometown of Palm Springs, this is his conversation with Mike de la Rocha on Mike's podcast Sacred Lessons. They get into masculinity and America's founding story, the doctrine that justified conquest, and the much older democratic wisdom that was already here: the Haudenosaunee Great Law of Peace, and what changes when you put peace, care, and women at the center of how we govern ourselves. Then they follow it into the present: broken men in power, the men building our AI, and whether this technology pulls us apart or finally forces us to reconnect.

Before you listen: Baratunde is co-hosting a virtual gathering, Declaring Interdependence, with Valarie Kaur and Indigenous elders José Barreiro and Katsi Cook on Tuesday, June 9 (5pm PT / 8pm ET) — the live companion to everything in this episode. Register below.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Welcome back — and an invitation to Declaring Interdependence
03:49 Sacred Lessons begins: the story we inherit about being a man
07:31 America's big awkward birthday party
08:07 The country as a story — and the doctrine of discovery
10:20 The Haudenosaunee and the Great Law of Peace
16:55 The book: American Indigenous Democracy
19:25 The five principles, starting with women at the center
24:34 Spirit, the unseen, and what his mother taught him
29:30 Practicing interdependence (yes, even with the moths)
31:07 Broken men, power, and refusing to mirror the cruelty
36:55 AI, Elon, and the trap of control
44:25 A better use of the tech: self-knowledge as a shield
48:14 Living with AI: agency vs. power
55:25 For the young man who idolizes the billionaire
57:55 Prepping for the apocalypse — with guns, or with neighbors
01:01:50 From a declaration of independence to interdependence
01:02:39 The Sacred Five
01:13:00 Closing: the book, June 9, and what's next on the feed

LINKS

Declaring Interdependence (virtual, June 9, 5pm PT / 8pm ET): https://www.eventbrite.com/e/declaring-interdependence-a-gathering-for-the-250th-tickets-1990529062008
American Indigenous Democracy: A Call for Interdependence (foreword by Baratunde): https://americanindigenousdemocracy.com
Sacred Lessons with Mike de la Rocha: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-sacred-lessons-with-mike-304426528/
Life With Machines: https://lifewithmachines.media
Everything Baratunde: https://baratunde.com

Recorded live at the BOOST Conference. Next up on the feed: my friend Jon Alexander, ahead of his turn on TED's democracy stage in Philadelphia.