Hi. I'm Vanessa Beyor and this is my brother Jonah. We're two siblings who love to talk about our childhood and nostalgia and how it shaped us into the people we are today, who are pretty charmingly charismatic, if I do say so myself. Welcome to how did We Get Weird? Soy Vanessa today, you know, in honor of our topic and our guests, I wanted to talk really quickly about our senior projects. I don't know if this is a thing that all high schools do and we can talk about that, but we had a thing in our high school basically the last few months of our senior year we could kind of do an internship basically and get out of going to school, maybe the last month. And how long was it. I think it was only like a month. If that, it was like a few weeks or a month. Yeah. And so I'm a couple of years older, and I worked at this record store in Mentor, Ohio called Ultrasound Records, and it was like a punk and hardcore and metal record store, and the owner, Gary, basically let me work there for free. And then I remember like a parent from the school had to come check on it. I was going to ask you, do you remember your parent checking because I remember mine. I remember the parent being kind of weirded out because it was like, you know, this was like a record store or a two thousand, so it's like no offense against the store, but like I would say, a large percentage of the stuff sold there was bootlegs, so it was like bootleg t shirts, bootleg VHS tapes, like just lots of obscure metal vinyl and CDs. And I felt like she was a little bit like, what's going on here? Right? But yeah, I think it was good over all. My friends would come in, I would hang out this record store. Then I think that summer the owner felt bad enough to kind of offer me like a paying job. I remember wanting to get paid in CDs and then being like, no, I have to pay you money. You can buy CDs, but telenically can't just like give you a gift certificate. Do you remember. I think at the end of senior project, we had to do like a presentation about it. You had to make like a poster board, and I think mine might be in our parents basement somewhere, and there's all these photos. There's a photo of Dwide from the singer for Integrity and a Hawaiian shirt he used to come in the store all the time. And the photos of my friends, there's just a bunch of random stuff. I was just taking photos. I do remember one point taking photos of like a walla bootleg tapes and then being like, don't take photos of that. That's really funny. Really yeah, what about you? What did you do? I don't think you worked at it like a punk record store. I volunteered at University Hospitals. You know. It was fresh off surviving childhood leukemia, and so I thought what better than to return to my kind of roots place where I was treated for leukemia and place where I was born. University Hospitals of Cleveland, very cool rainbow babies and children's hospital shout out. And I was on a floor for kids who had to get organ transplants, and so I had like a pretty serious senior project. And I remember that there were also some kids I don't know if this is how it's referred to anymore, but who had shaken baby syndrome and they were doing fine. Like I remember the moms coming to visit and then being sort of like a little freaked out for a different reason, like they were like, Wow, how did these kids do it? How did these parents do it? And I remember, like as a leukemia survivor, being like, we do it like and just sort of being like they were like, I don't know if I could do this every day. I was like, maybe you couldn't. You went like I remember just being like feeling pretty punk about being any the punk mentality, embodying the mentality. So yeah, I really enjoyed it. It It was a really good experience. I remember they told me they specifically did not want me to be on the floor with kids with leukemia because they were like, that might be a little much for you, and they were probably right, but again feeling very punk on the floor I was on and felt like I was able to really like I think there are also some kids with cystic fibrosis on that floor. They were really sweet kids, and I remember really kind of bonding with them, but speaking a punk. I just recently talked to a friend of mine from high school, Ryan Johnson, who lives here in l A. And she was saying she didn't go on senior project on purpose because she was like I went to school every day and it was so punk. She didn't say that, but it sounds like it was punk. She just went to class and there were I don't know two people in her classes, and she said, I guess there were kids from other grades there. But she said, basically her classes were pretty empty. It was very little work because like if there was a test or something, most kids didn't have to take it, so there just weren't a lot of tests. I don't think. I mean, I would love to get more details from her on this, but it never even crossed my mind to just not go on senior project. Yeah. The only kids I remember that didn't go were punished for doing like a senior prank or something, and then they weren't allowed to go. I never heard of the choice of not going, But had I known that was an option, maybe I would have done that. Yeah, that was a great experience. It was a great experience. But if you'll recall, our high school was like five minutes from our house, so we could have just gone in there every day and chilled. I glad I did it, and I think you are too, But yeah, I'm not sure what the distance of the high school from the house has to do it. So just the fact that. Okay, I didn't really explain it. What I'm saying is our high school was so close to our house that we could have gone into school every day and just chilled. That would have been awesome, as opposed to our senior projects were at least, you know, twenty five minute half hour drive and we had to do work, so from a commuting perspective. From a commuting perspective and then going and having to do work again, it sounds like we found them. Both of our senior projects very rewarding. You know, maybe for different reasons and some more than others, but it would have been cool to just roll up to school and be like, I guess I'm just gonna chill here and quote unquote go to class. Yeah, if you do it again, Vanessa, maybe you can make that decision. Our guest today is a senior staff writer at The Ringer and the host of the hit podcast Sixty Songs I Explained the nineties. He also used to write for me when I was a music editor Alternate Press twenty years ago. Although I'm not sure we've ever met for in person, I was going to say, but it sounds like you guys have never met. Yeah, No, so let's welcome Rob Harvilla. Hey Rob, how's it going. Hey guys, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. It's an honor. Yeah, thank you. Did you have any kind of senior project type situation. I was going to say that I too had a senior project, and I was very excited to talk about it until Vanessa started talking about her like actually relevant and like bringing good into the world senior projects, like I don't want to about I interned at the local paper. I interned at the media. Is that this would have been. I interned for the arts editor, And what that mostly entailed was just digging around on the internet. Like I didn't understand that. They just they didn't want to really deal with me. They were very nice to me, but they didn't want to deal with me. So just here's what you do, Just go on the internet and surf around. And I had never really been on the internet very serious, and so I just spent all day like bringing out guitar tabs for Radiohead songs on just a computer in the corner of the Medicizette office, like Street Spirit fade out, Like I remember I remember printing that one out very specifically and like I kind of learned to play it, but not really. But they finally let me do an article and I interviewed a guy who went on Jeopardy, Like he was a Jeopardy contestant, and he was in that sort of window where the episode had an aired yet, so he couldn't tell me if you want. I didn't actually watch it. I don't think he won, but you know, he was like some smart, like professor type dude who lived in Medina, And I just interviewed him for an hour at a picnic table about his experience on Jeopardy, you know, and then wrote a tight eight hundred words about it or whatever. And I so that was my senior project. You know, it's slightly less important in the grand scheme of things, you know, to working with kids with it involves like what you went on to do professionally, So that's kind of interest. My other choices were guitar center. They said no, I can't work there, which is like why would I Why wouldn't I want to work at like a cool guitar store? Want to? It was a guitar center, sam as Yeah, And then my other one was a piercing shop chain link addiction. Oh my goodness, Chaine, which I'm glad. I like, if I had gotten really into that, my life could have gone different. Yeah. My buddy worked a guitar center and hated it, Like he said everybody, it was nuts me, Like he had to know all these arcane facts about like what guitars were made out of, like is this rosewood or sandal would or what. He just hated a very grim picture of that. I used to hang out there a lot in high school and like I want to buy something, but it would take me so long to save up the money that I was always going there. And I remember buying this weird MIDI guitar synth thing and then I saved up for so long and then like used it twice? Did you have like a reliable I'm trying out this guitar guitar song? Do you know what I'm saying? Great question? You pull it off the wall and like, like what are you doing? What's what's your go to there? I want to say, probably seek and destroy or something there? What about you? They should have hired you on the spot right there. I remember I walked into a music store once and I started trying to play Imagine on a piano, and they yelled at me, there I do not play imagine, like I almost got kicked out. I'm sure they were sick of hearing that. Like I was hurt at the time, but I respected in retrospect, it's like they don't want to hear a stupid teenager trying to play imagine. I probably it might have been Radiohead Street Spirit honestly, because that's you know, it's it's very it's impossible to play honestly if you're me. But I'm trying to impress the people around me without actually looking at the people around me, like I want to be noticed, you know, And that's that's what I probably would have done. Now, let me ask this Jonah when Rob also from Ohio, and we've got to hear more about that. When he was applying to work for you at a p did you see this Dina newspaper credit? And did you go? Whoa this guy is? This guy? I did incisive questions. We got to get this guy in here. Yeah, I saw the Jeopardy piece and I thought this kid's this kid's got something. Yeah. No, you know, I was so young when I got hired of that job. I was only twenty two. I was like right out of college. I think I inherited a lot of writers from Dave Segel who had the job before me, like me, like you and Jonah. Was the job title it was music editor and so yeah, it was like I think I would actually get all these CDs in the mail and then I think I would actually have to mail the physical CD to the writers. Have been laborious. Yeah, this is this is a pre internet situation. But I remember that office. I I interned there when Dave Siegel was still there, and just the physical room that he was sitting in, like he was surrounded by these towers, like he was basically buried alive in promo CDs. And it was like the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, getting mail there was the best thing. I mean, but took hours for me to insane. Can I ask? You were the music editor? But it's a music magazine? Were there other was there? Like a fashion editor and stuff? There were the music editor basically was in charge of the CD review section. Okay, so there were other editors there, and then what would the other editors called? They'd be in charge of different editors. I don't know editor in chief, associate editor, assistant editor. Was there a fashion editor. There was not a fashion editor. I can say that, yeah, there wasn't a fashion editor. Probably could have used one. Yeah, you could write about music if you were a different type of editor. I mean that everyone wrote about music, but I just that's what they called the reviews section. Got it, Rob, You remember getting like CDs in the middle because what I thought was cooled Dave would do is he would I think when he would get finished copies, he would then mail them to the writers so they could sell them. Yes, yes, so that was that was a huge part of my financial situation for many years at that point, is selling CDs. Yeah, it's weird to think of CDs being worth money, like there is. I finally sold all my CDs like a year ago. I live in Columbus, I'm near Ohio State. So I went to an Ohio state like CD store, and I you know, over time, I spent eight hundred a thousand dollars on all these CDs. Like I just bring in these milk crates, like hundreds and hundreds of CDs. I get like sixty bucks. Like I walk out of there dejected and like this is my life's work in a certain manner of speaking, and like this is what it's worth to me. Now, I'm gonna go have lunch, you know. But it was, you know, it was worth it. I regret nothing, but yes, the physical CD era, getting CDs in the mail and like opening them up, and you know, the giant, thick press releases and the photos, right, like the glossy photos. Yeah, that was It's weird. I lived through that era, and I still don't believe it actually happened now. It sounds just so foreign to my experience of the world. Now. Yes, and you were talking about I think the glossy photos recently in your own podcast and the episode about Sunny Day real Estate. That's right, because they only had one photo, like that was their big thing, like there's only one photo of us, so cool, like it's that was very cool at the time. That's another thing that doesn't make any sense to me now, but I I just remembered. And the Alternative Press had this, of course, like those gun metal gray like triple stacked filing cabinets just stuffed to the gills with band photos and like a big part I answered at the Alternative Press and a big part of what I did was like file them are like, fine, you know, we need a photo of the Smith's right now, and so off I go to the s is right and just it's it's smelled a certain way, like it had a very pleasing old Steve smell to it, like it was super cool at the time, but just the clutter of it is just hilarious in retrospect. I in turned there too, in the art department, but it moved offices, I think right when I was hired. That's right. Yeah, I where was the old one? Where was the one that would have been around like it was in this like atrium kind of thing. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. Yeah, Yeah, it was weird. That's where it was when I in turned. Yeah, it was very weird. But yeah. So I think we communicated and I would send you assignments and stuff, but I don't think we ever and like we're following each other on social media, but I don't think we've ever actually met in person. You sent me a rat email at one point, like I'm a jaded college student or like just post college student. I'm pretty low on the tier of your writers, right, Like you have your go to guys and like they get the great bands or whatever, the big records, and I'm down here getting like, you know, like third tier like new epitaph bands, right, and I think my writing, my reviews started to reflect like this is just a third tier epitath band. Like it literally was a third year epitaph band. It like you sent me an email, like very politely and reasonably being like, you know, like try and meet these guys at their level, like you know, just like show a little more enthusiasm was the subtext of the email. But you did it in a very tactful It was a great I wish I still had it. I don't think it's like on my hotmail at my hotmail address or whatever, but it's just it was excellent editor. Oh my god, speak it was awesome. I can't believe I did that. No, but it was necessary. It was just like like, Okay, stop acting like you're above this. You know, this band from Portland or whatever we sent you, Like, I know it's not the coolest thing in the world, but like, come on. Although, Jonah, I remember always reading your reviews in AP magazine and sometimes you were really pretty tough on these bands. You could be. Yeah, I felt like sometimes it's like with a job like that, you feel like you're in a vacuum a little bit, Like you're writing stuff and you're like, oh, this is such a good line, like and then you you forget. It's like going out into the world and like people's careers are kind of like depending on it, and it's like that can sometimes be a weird realization, Robbed, did you ever experience that we have a lot of power we don't realize it. I reviewed the first Lincoln Park Record for the Alternative Press, and I didn't get it at all. I wish I hadn't said that, because I'm gonna hope it's not online. I'm pretty sure that it's not. But it was like just a very pissy and fifty words like these guys th like Britney Spears, like whatever. Whatever my mind state was when I was what twenty two or whatever, I was completely dismissive of the Lincoln Park record that went on to sell like X ten millions of copies and like defined the music that Alternative pressoul cover for the next twenty years. I almost ruined the magazine by alienating like a major bands on their first record reviewing their first record. Meanwhile, I'm in college at the same time doing an impression of fred Dhurst in my sketch comedy musical parody troup Bloomers Bloomers. Yeah, I was, I was hearing about that. Isn't Fred Durst the singer of Lincoln Park. No, that would be the risk. Oh sorry, sorry, wait, Vanessa, you did a fred Durst impression in Bloomer's. Yeah, do you remember how it sounded? I put my hair up and I wore a red hat. And then what was their big song? Break stuff? Nookie? Sorrykie was a big one, break stuff? Is there another one song? In order to you think what a third limp Biscuit song? It was mostly like this, I'm fred Durst. You nailed it. But imagine me in a red hat. Look, the red hat is a crucial part of the olymp biscuit. And that's like percent of the way. Olivia's asking Roland did rolling like this, roll and roll and rolling on. I'm fred Jurst. That's it. That's stupendous. That's it. But I'm sorry, that's a different band. It's close enough. Wait what band are they from? What is he from? Biscuit? Limp Biscuit, Right, who's the singer of Lincoln Park? Does anyone know he's maybe not as much of a solo celebrity as Fred Durst. There was a singer and a rap right, and so Mike Shinoda the singer passed away the rappers Mike Shinodaka and they're still at it. But yeah, that's Is there any video footage of your Fred Durst impression? God? It, you know, it's so crazy, this is wild wild. When I was in college, our first couple of years, I believe our shows were recorded on VHS tape, and then the second couple of years, like my junior and senior year, they were recorded on DVD. You were right there for the transition. Yeah, isn't that crazy? I think that's right Because I went to college in two thousand and I think we hadn't quite switched to like full DVDs yet, but I think I probably have a VHS tape, but not easy. Yeah, because I remember coming home from on my holiday breaks and making my friends watched this like long to just check out my fred Durst. Guys like, yeah, absolutely, it's an hour later rob something else that I was reading an interview with you with Friends, Ducy, Yeah, yeah, yeah, creative independent is yes. And you were talking about this Lana del Rey review did for Spin, and I could relate to this so much because you were sort of saying my mother in law read this review was like it was really well written, but I didn't understand it. And I feel like that my grandparents used to subscribed all these magazines I wrote for, and I was writing about this very esoteric like punkin art. I felt like my parents were always like, I think this is good, but it I don't understand it. That's how I feel. Yeah, And it's not because it's like very theoretical or like above people's comprehension. It's just I don't know, I've never heard anyone kind of phrase it the way you did. I guess it's a very specialized kind of writing music criticism if you get too far up your own ass with it quite frankly right, like it's just you with that Lana del Rey review specifically, like yes, my mother in law said, that's me verbatim, and I just sort of realized that, like, I'm writing for other music critics and I'm making all these references that only people who do this for a living would get I sort of realized how alienating it was other people. I am so delighted by the the of your grandparents with like kid Rock on the cover of Alternative Press, like on their coffee table, and that's that's my grandson thinking about. Well, one of the cover stories I did was with No Effects when they got painted up like the Dixie Chicks. That's right, that's right. I remember that cover, and I think they had that when we remember at the magazine, like parents were not into that. They were not into that. I would guess they were not. Yeah, it's yeah, those are good grandparents that they would actually display that one in their home, especially not an attractive band conventionally effects. Yeah. I feel like they had this really beautiful apartment in Philadelphia and then their den there was this coffee table that had just stacks of ap magazine on it that's so beautiful and like a Picasso print and like just you know, just a lot of very finely curated art and there, yes, yes, yes, and then me, you know, writing about Thursday or something. We're not, you know, an artful band, sure, but I'm just saying it's you know, a different type of art not a grand parental situation different from a different era. Yes, well, on that note, Rob, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with Rob Harvilla on how did we get weird? So Rob, something that I found while we were talking that you reminded me of also is this? Yes? Absolutely, and this is a guitar tableature book. Is Alison Chain's album Facelift. And this is something we've never I don't think we've talked about in the podcast, but these tableature books were huge in the nineties and early, very important to me. Right, And what's a tablettuer book? It's basically a book of like sheet music that like a company. This one's put out by guitar how Leonard Publishing Company. But yeah, I don't know. I guess it's licensed through the band and they but they were usually wrong. Were they wrong? I think they were wrong a lot. It was never a good enough player to notice. That's funny. That's just that they just made it up as they want. I think they were only right. Like, now you have bands that actually make their own tab books. I see do they Okay, that's cool, Yeah, Propagandy does, and some other bands do. But I think these were wrong, but they would be expensive. They'd yeah, no, it's it's a it's an investment. Yeah. I had one, I think when I was used to play piano when we were a little and it had C and C Music Factory on it and stuff. It had like a bunch of different pop songs, and how I think I was playing that song I've got the power on piano on a piano, I need to hear this, how do you? I'm pretty sure what the bummer is that mom and dad sold our childhood piano because I bet because we had one of those pianos that in the bench you could store music. Of course, yeah, that's where you play. I guess that's classic. And I had this book that had all these pop songs, including Music Factory. I'm trying to think of other songs. It would be like I've got the like do do do? I need to hear the piano version of Gonna Make You Sweat? Everybody dance now? Like, this is just not a piano song. The songs on it were so funny in retrospect, they were really not meant for piano. Never in for a moment that I questioned, like this shouldn't be played on piano. Were you singing it as fred Durst or as yourself? Oh? Jonah, this was before fred Durst was in the ethos. This was I was probably like ten or eleven. I mean, you know, had fred Durst been around, then, of course I would have done my pitch perfect fred Durst. But you know, you know that's the thing about time, right, I'm picturing you at a piano recital. It's like I will now play things that make you go by the same same music factory and the key of E minor and you just rock out, you know, just people throw flowers at you. That's that's a beautiful I mean, this book that I had was pretty awesome. I feel like it had songs by a lot of different artists. Again, I'm struggling, Tron, I'm trying to think of stuff. Yeah, technotronic and groove is in the heart. I feel like there was some glorias to fun and have duel and stuff on there, while I have duel straight up or yeah, rush rush or something that would that would actually be a red piano song. Yeah, yeah, okay, Rob, do you remember any tab books you had kind of during this Sarah, I was gonna say I did not have facelift. But by far, the most important tab book to me was Alison chains It was Jar of Flies and sap like as sap EP combined, right, And so I had, I, I is it, I stay away or I fade away, I forget no excuses, don't follow like the Jar of Flies EP like they were all acoustic right like, And so I learned all those songs. I went through a regrettable open might night phase in college and I would play Alison Chainsaw. The Lane Daley high notes were far beyond my ability, but like that was the most important tab book to me by far. Like I loved Smashing Pumpkins. And I remember vividly being in a Camelot music and they they had the wall of tab books, right I'm like, I'm gonna look at the Siamese Dream tab book. And I opened it up and it looked so hard like it just it looked virtuosic, like the same thing. They had a Steely Dan's Greatest Hits and I opened that up and I was like, oh my god, I could never play this in a billion years, And like I was too intimidated to buy that one. But the Jar of Flies. Alison Chains was exactly my speed and like I would buy that facelif just for a Man in the Box alone. Yeah, so think about Man in the Box is like not that hard of a song to play, but you need the dude, right, you need to talk box. You need to talk box. It's not going to sound anything like is that what that is? I was just going to ask you guys, is that why Alison Chains sounds like a bunch of people are singing it once? Why does it sound like that? Well, they had two singers and they sing in Unison. Yeah, they sang kind of in Unison, but then the other guy like was doubled or tripled and like he liked to make like a little scary orchestra out of himself. Like I know what you're talking about. Yeah, got it. It sounds like it's like two guys who are like five six seven and I don't know if they counted themselves in like that, Like that's not quite macho enough. All right, here we go ready, Like but yes, that's I know, so Rob if we're going like because around the Austin Chain subject, I know you did a great episode on them for your podcast. If you gotta go like favorite grunge band if you're like Alison Chains, Sound Garden, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Where are you going right again? Smashing Pumpkins were sort of grunge adjacent. I've been thinking about them a lot recently, like they were probably one of my favorite bands, Like probably Pearl Jam is the answer. Like I got super hard into those first. You know, I had the Stickman shirt right, the drawing of the Stickman that you alive, Like I remember specifically seeing them play Saturday Night Live, like doing the whole Alive solo and like that's what I wanted to learn to play, and I never could. Sound Garden. They were all great, but I would probably have to just say Pearl Jam. You know, those first Vitology versus, like those early Pearl Jam records were so fantastic, you know, And I'm in suburban Cleveland, you know, imagining Seattle is like this, this glorious mecca of of radness. Yes, that was probably it for me. Did you see any of I saw Sound Garden at at Nautica and the super Unknown Tour Nautica. Oh man, I'm so jealous. I saw tons of shows at Nautica, but I never got to see sound Garden and I'm so mad about I saw Bush at Nautica. Would you accept that as a as a substitute. I don't think you should, but I would not rest It was actually currently on tour with Alison Chains. Wow, the dude who sings for Allison James right now is really good actually, Like that's one of those bands like you'd think you could not possibly replicate Lane Staley's voice or like vibe right, but like he's I've seen that version with him live and it's really good. Yes, I agree, I'd go see that tour. Right is the singer of Alison Chain's just not in the Lane Staley passed away. This guy, William Duval has but has been the band now for probably fifteen sixteen years, probably longer than the actual Yeah, and he was in all he was in Blast, he was in this other very early like proto punk band. He's like a very super talented singer. But yeah, I'm and I would say for me, yeah, probably Sound Gardener Alison Chains. I liked like how those bands were so kind of dark and I like that, like they kind of like sound Garden what they had some early stuff on sst like I felt like I like the kind of punk crossover because that was was more into. So I would say maybe one of those and both vocalists obviously incredible. Vanessa, what about you? Okay, thanks for asking. I really like Girl Jam a lot. But I think I'm going to say sound Garden because maybe I've told the story. I'm here before I know what you're going to say, but go ahead, this is a good story. One time I met Chris Cornell at SNL because he was playing with the Joe I always forget that he was playing with like almost like a country the Zach Brown Band. Yeah, with someone you wouldn't expect, And I remember like we were doing rewrites upstairs and they were rehearsing and I was like, is that Chris Cornell? I was like, that's not our musical guest this week. He was playing with them, and then at the Good Nights I told him that when I was a kid, people used to always say look like the girl jumping rope in Black Hole Sun and he was like really, and I was like, yeah, I used to wear braces and he was like, oh, I can see it. And I thought it was so cool, and I really, that's so sad, but he passed away. That's like he was just such a talent and it was cool to get to meet him. I was supposed to see them like two days later. They played a hard rock festival in Columbus. It was like two days before they were supposed to adline, Oh Man, Vanessa, could you hear like during good nights? Can you actually hear what people are saying to you up there? Or is it just too loud? Yeah, you can talk to people, but it would be hard to like call across to someone or something. But you can talk to people. That's why people are sort of getting close and talking because that's the only way they can hear each other. How conscious of the camera are you in that moment exactly? I've always wondered, like how if there's like a performative aspect to the people like this opening their arms. When I first started, I was really conscious of it, and I remember I got to like hug Kanye like in front of the camera like my second show, and I was like, this is awesome. Yeah. The only time later on that I was really conscious of it is once in a while you get into a situation where there's no one around to hug like you're just going to say, and then you sort of are like, oh am I going to get caught, and like usually you're just so like relieved that the show is and there's like just people you want to But yes, I feel like the only time I noticed it later on was if I was like find myself and I was like, oh, inching off camera. That's a tough moment. And also noticing if that was happening to other people and then you just try and go over to that person. That's very sweet. That's a very Midwestern approach situation. Now, wait, Rob, where are you from in Ohio? I was born in Cleveland. I lived in St. Louis, Missouri for a little while as a kid, but primarily Medina, which is, you know, a suburb of Cleveland, like a half hour south of Cleveland. Like I from what I was what ten years old, all through high school, college, etcetera. My parents are still there, you know, I'm only an hour and a half south now I still go up there all the time. Medina. We have a great opportuny unity here to just alienate your listeners with like very Cleveland suburbs specific to Peabody is down under anecdotes, you know, just for the next forty five minutes. Oh my gosh, Peabody is down Under. Yeah, so a lot of shows that Peabody is down Under. Yeah, that whole area of the flats. The Odeon was a great venue fantasy, the Symposium, I mean that then Peabody's Cafe, grog Shop, Beachland obviously, but yeah, there were a lot. I mean it's wild. Um, we do have a lot of listeners from Cleveland, but I think it's hard to explain. I don't know what it's like now, but it's hard to explain what it was like in the late nineties going to the flats in Cleveland, like like to go see a band. It was crazy. It was like there were so many places, there were so many people. It was like this really wild seeing I was like a teenager. And then I feel like I went back when I moved back to Cleveland or the two thousands, and it was like literally like a ghost that's a dark moment when you're at there's the where's the Hooters or whatever? Yeah, Like Nautico is rad, right, It's like it was like on the river and they're like boats and ship like that was that was awesome. Nantico was just very cool to me. Yes, you know, living in a Dine, Ohio at the time. I don't know if you remember this. There was a radio festival and this is really maybe an island a people, but there was a radio festival and I think it might have been one of the buzzard fests w MMS, w MMS. I don't know if it was that, but it was some kind of radio festival and green Day was supposed to play and this was like the peak Dukie like but like just kind of hitting the peak. And I was there super early. I was I don't think I could even drive yet, and I think this was a show. I got dropped on my head crowd serving to Collective Soul, and then green Day was supposed to play and they ended the show. They were like, there's too many people here. Green Day camp play and then they came back and went to Blossom and I saw them there with Sam. I saw the Blossom show. You saw that, Yes, I did. It was them with like Moist. One of the opening bands was a Canadian band named Moist, which I saw Moist in high school multiple times. I wrote it from my guitar teacher's band named Trip and they played at the Odeon with Moist. What was their big song? What was Moist? It was called push. Oh yeah, I've been on boys Wikipedia page probably in the last few months, being like, what are these guys out to private browsing? But yeah, any band from that era, I've probably been there Wikipedia page in the last three months. This show maybe they played, But I remember Sam i Am played because I'm friends with Surgery from SAMM and he said they flew into Cleveland just to play that one show at Blossom with Green Day. I remember there was like a grass fight right on the line. It was a grass fight. That was a big show. It was right when people were throwing grass at each other. Yeah, they were on the law and it Blossom like one of the big outdoor amphitheaters, right, and so everybody it's like five bucks to get in, and so you got a bunch of unruly teenage This is the craziest part about this. And I don't think I've talked about this in the podcast. I know if you get to our topic, but this is so insane to think about. Vanessa, I don't if you know this. I went to the show with like four other kids from my high school, and someone's mom was like, instead of driving them there, we should rent a limousine. Okay, that's the coolest mom of all time. You went in a limo to the Green Day Show. I went in a limo with like five of my friends. Was it anyone else from our high school that I would know or were they all from other school? Lee Rollins, Michael Gableman, I can't remember a couple other people. And we went in this limo and it drove us there, and you know, it's like this amphitheaters. You're driving through these long things that parking lot. Then it waited for us a whole and there's obviously pretty sephone. It waited for us the whole show. And then we got back in this limo and I remember I'm the way out, were the windows down. We're like, we're like fifteen, we'd died hair and that We're like, did you poke out the sunroof? I don't know if we put that the sunroof, but I remember we were washing in the limo and the driver was like, you guys, and we're yelling at the window. I mean, people thought were something, but I remember it was like it seemed like it wasn't expensive. I feel like it was like thirty bucks a person, or it seemed like it was really under price for for a Limo to sit there for five hours. Yeah, the guys sitting there reading back issues alternative press, you know, waiting for the masters. Yeah, limo washing and trying to picture like five dudes in like like a Limo type environment. That's punk rock. The driver was not psyched about us, That's not I would not be amused if that were my job. That is rad as hell. Man. Well, thank you for indulgent me on that. And I want to get to today's topic because it is related and robbed today. The topic you brought in is great. We can relate to this as well. It is um your parents record collection, and so I'm wondering if you can just sort of tell us a little bit about your parents record collection and give us kind of the low down on it. Sure. So this is mid early eighties, right, and I'm living in St. Louis, Missouri, in the suburbs of St. Louis at the time, and like we had the stereo right, like vinyl on top, then a tape deck and then the radio and like it was housed in this thing. There was like a glass front with like a magnet door you could store the vinyl at the bottom shelf like and I can picture the squeaking hinge when you like open the thing to look at the records, Like this is a very important physical object to me, this stereo. Yeah, I was trying to make a list of every record I knew for a fact that they had. Right, it's like multiple Cindy Lapper records same yeah, yeah, like she's so unusual. And the next one, True Colors. I think it was True Colors was awesome. True Colors was truly fantastic thriller. Of course. Of course Purple Rain. Of course. My dad had a Steely Dan sort of thing, so a couple of Steely Dan records, Saturday Night Fever, and then also the coveted Sesame Street Disco record that was patterned after Saturday Night Fever, like I gather like if you go on discogs, I think like this is a profound, you know, coveted object, the Sesame Street Disco record, that Bruce Springstein live box set where it was like way too many. It was like five vinyl albums of Bruce Springstein Live like came in its own little cardboard thing like to whatever. Our parents have that too. I still have two copies for some reason, but I have our parents. I have one back here as well. Yeah, and like my dad was into Willie Nelson like I is. I can picture each and every individual record. The only choreograph dance I've ever done in my life. I worked up a thing to one of the Saturday Night Fever songs. I think, I think the Beethoven Saturday Night Fever song. Like I would dance around and this is in my basement. There's a ping pong table, there's the TV, there's like a couch, and then there's me like disco dancing. You know, at five, six seven years old listening to my parents records, it's like this is this is what made me for better or worse? Oh my gosh, that is incredible. Yeah, I mean, Vanessa, do you remember our parents records that some of the same ones. I mean definitely True Colors was huge for me. We had the Tina Turner record with What's Love Got to Do with That? That was like a big private dancer, big song for Yeah. At one point took like we had these two big drawers in our living room full of records, and at one point when I gotten into vinyl, I took like all the records I thought were cool, which was like a very small percentage. I was not interested in both of the records. But my mom was a big Bob Dylan fans. There's a lot of Dylan Almond brothers, and it was like grateful dead American beauty. All right, it was pretty cool. There was some Madonna. I was very into Madonna. Sometimes it would be like Hannuka presents for me would be like the Madonna or the Cyndi Lauper. Yeah, But I felt like as far as what our parents, yeah, it was then it would be like you know, one time Petti record like one it was like very like rock what was popular at that time, like the Heartlands. But then also like we also had We Are the World was really playing a lot. We had like a mini record if We Are the World, I feel like yeah. And then we had Free to Be You and Me and the book Remember do you remember that? Jonah? Remember the record? I remember the most, And I know, like this is not like the most popular thing to say these days is the thriller gatefold of course, I mean it was, and I just would run upstairs when the Vincent Price in Surprise part would come on. It was not a fan of Vincent Price. Too scary that part that record and really scared me. Really Okay, I just want to say that the video, the video, I guess you couldn't have handled either. Yeah, that was kind of scary when he turns around at the end. Yeah that's tough. Yeah. I was like, maybe you could just make music and not scared people. But I guess, um the whole Polo wax we're getting into. But anyway, Yeah, I remember Thriller playing all the time, We are the World playing all the time, Free to be You and Me playing all the time, which seems like I'm the only one who has a memory. Yeah, I don't remember that one. It had songs like It's all Right to Cry and like it was so great. We did a play of it in my after school theater program when I was in middle school. But Johnny, you don't remember this as much as me. But I feel like we were playing records in our house a lot. Yeah, it's possible I don't remember as much, but I guess I sort of remember the receiver and the radio. Rob, did you have any kind of musical overlap stuff you like the same as your parents? I mean they sort of raised me to love all the stuff I just mentioned. I just looked up the album covered I Free to Be You and Me, and I have a vague sense memory of it, like it's pink and I. It's bubble letters and it's like the kids playing around it. Like I have seen this record. I didn't know it by that name is, but yeah, I think I do know Marlowe Thomas and Friends, right right, Yeah, it's gut you you got some big cabot Diana Ross. That's that's a cool little record, yeah, Bobby GiB all right, my parents. I just inherited my parents music taste to a degree, Like I still love all those records and still associate those records with them and with my childhood. Like my mom was huge and remains huge into you two. We also had a couple, you know obviously, you know with the Joshua Tree and the Unforgettable Fire, right, And that's like that's that was my first sort of understanding as I was starting to become like have my own musical tastes, Like that's what I shared with my mom, especially my mom loved you too. Yeah, it's like everything, you know, my life talking about music for a living somehow starts with those records, and like I still love Cyndi Lauper's records today and yeah, it's I absolutely just ingrained all of them. They're all ingrained in me. Yeah, I feel like there's almost like a dis connect with me, like where I was trying to connect, but the stuff I was into was so different. Like I remember our parents having a party and having friends over and this was the air of CDs. We had a CD boom box, and I remember being like, oh, you guys like Bob Dylan like ministry covers, Late lady, Late, let me put this on for you. I'm playing this like metal and dustrial version and everyone. Yeah, like when I play my own band's music and stuff, everyone's like what is this? This is like unlistenable sort of and just having that kind of reaction being like, no, this is like a cover of a song you guys like. And then because this sounds like which is true? I think I believe it's on the album Filth Pig. Yeah, oh yeah, that's a it's a great party album. Filth pig. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean I did let like some of that stuff, and I did like Dylan, I did like some of that stuff, but I felt like there was always this conflict between that stuff and sort of my punkness or something. I think you either rebel against it and reject all of it, or you just take all of it in right, Like there's basically it's a binary. You either love all of it or you hate all of it. Just because they loved it, and it seemed a lot easier at the time to just love it as well, and so that's what I did. Vanessa, what about you, how do you feel you were kind of related to our parents kind of musical tastes. Well, First of all, Jonah, it was interesting we were talking about this yesterday, like they have had their records and these two big drawers that were like sort of under like a sitting area in our family room, and I didn't realize Jonah was saying that was a really good way to store them. I just thought it was so weird that we had these drawers that pulled out of they weren't really displayed. Yeah, but now as an adult who has a ton of records and like animals running around, I'm like, oh, I wish I had this, Kia wasn't around the Calx, you know, you didn't have that in Like, I hope the people who live in the house we grew up and now used those drawers for records because they are really handy drawers and I'm sure protected them really well. But yeah, I just remember. The other thing that I thought was really cool about records that really did not follow on two CDs was that the artwork and stuff on them was so big that it was really kind of as morising. And to that point, I will say now as an adult, I don't know if I have any of mom and Dad's records, but I definitely have records that, you know, modern bands have given me for different things, or like I've gotten just some of Jonah's bands records and stuff, and I don't have a record player, so I have a lot of them on display, and they are kind of like artwork, you know, But at the same time, it would be so very cool to be them, and I do need to get a record player, right suppose, Yeah, rob, do you listen to Vinyl at home a lot? Or is it I'd like to tell you that I do like I have a record player right back here that I sort of painstakingly compiled, like off craiglist or whatever. But I just I don't fire it up as often as I probably should, you know, just because it's so hilariously inconvenient, right you know now that now that you're used to first CDs, but now just like streaming right like you just like a bunch of boxes in front of the speakers, like to get the optimum sound would take like several minutes of physical labor, which is just for some reason not worth it for me to hear like Cindy Up or whatever, Like I might as well just put it on my computer. And I feel bad saying that, Like it's I'm not one of these people goes around talking about the warmth of old vinyl like necessarily, but it is, like there's a ritualistic experience to it for me, and it is it's just an instant kind of nostalgia vibe, regardless of how old the record I'm playing. Is just the act of putting it on the turntable, like that's enough to send me back, right, Yes, do you guys think that records sound better than other forms of music? This is a very controversial topic that it is like take along and I'm here today. We can try, we can try. You know, it's like analog versus you know, digital and you know a lot of people do believe that record. You know, if you have a good sounding set up, it can sound a lot better if the files are really digitally compressed. But well, I don't understand, and Rob, I don't know how much you know about audio. I have like a so nos like receiver that like I plug into. I don't have it set up here, but but I plug it into and then it goes to speakers. And then I'm like, well, does this make any sense? Like this is like an analog signal, but then it's just going to lose wireless speakers. What's It's like, it seems what's the point. I don't have any technical know how on it, you know, like I it's always been an emotional thing for me. Again, like just a little pops in the cracks and the record. It's like, yes, there's if like a low quality MP three, like you can tell sounds bad, right, like the worst digital music sounds terrible compared to like anything else. But I think, you know, like a Spotify quality like an iTunes quality, like a ripped c D at this point, like, yeah, I I respect people who insist that they can tell a difference or like have a strong opinion, but like I am projecting an emotional valence onto this stuff, Like I can't really look you in the eye and say, oh, yeah, like this sounds different, this sounds better, right, Like it's just it's the physical experience of doing it is what's different for me, rather than how it sounds. Necessarily that makes sense. Yeah, Vanessa, we gotta get your record player. We gotta get me a record player. And I just want to say two Rob that I choreographed a lot of dances to the different record songs. And Jonah, I don't know if you remember this, but I'm pretty sure that our babysitter Tubby choreographed for us a dance to the Right Stuff by n KO t B formerly known as New Kids on the Block Forever in our hearts New Kids on the Block. But I think that was to a cassette. But yeah, I love choreographing dances to the record player. And yeah, Joana, I'd love to get a record player now and then maybe can choreograph up some new dances to break stuff, violent biscuit. Yeah, breaks, don't actually break stuff, Yeah, don't break stuff. I won't break stuff, you guys. I'm just gonna come up with an awesome dance. Absolutely all right. And that note, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with our part villa. All right, Rob, We're back, and now it's a moment you've been waiting for. I'm so excited by this. Okay. We got to say we're gonna play Legit Moner unnecessary grown obviously based on the column Monday Moaning from the Cleveland Plane Dealer now defunct column. Obviously, Rob, you gave us some information before we started the podcast that was really quite interesting and impressive. Impressive. You applied to work at the Cleveland Plane Dealer. Is that correct? I did? That is correct? Right? So, Okay, I went. I graduated from a Dinah High school about a half hour south of Cleveland. I went to Ohio University, graduated from there in two thousands. So I'm trying to get a job in two thousands. And were you a journalism major? I was. I was a magazine journalism major. Okay, like you were saying like I was sort of half Internet age and half not like the physical move from VHS to DVD, like that really resonates for me, Like it's just I went to a completely different school. I feel like than kids now who are dealing with the Internet, right, Like I so, yes, I sent out packets, you know, resumes clips and again this is physical clips. Like you get the Manila envelope, right, and you fill it up with your your You get like a good resume, you know, paper stock like very professional looking, not like a neon color or anything. Yeah, it has a thick stock and just off white or eggshell or whatever. This is all very important. And then you print out your clips from your you know, your college newspaper or whatever, you know, my my musings on sir mix a lot or whatever, and I mail it off to the plane dealer, Like I find I don't even know jobs specifically. Do you know what you're for? Probably not anything specific, like what is the lowest wrong on the totem pole with the clue and plane dealer in two thousand, right, like an intern probably maybe the Monday moaning editor. I would have done that. I had no idea. I am so excited to play a plane Dealer themed game. I had no idea that this existed. I think my parents only subscribe to the weekend Plane Deal or to get the comics, etcetera. I have never heard of this. Comics get the paper on Monday, so of course on day moanings. Now, you would have probably done a better job than they, But I would like to think that I would have. I think I would have been great at that job. I do not recall getting any response from the Plane Deal or whatsoever. Well, you know, not what could have been man well interesting, Yeah, because I wonder if you were in charge of Monday Morning, if it wouldn't have gone extinct about ten years ago. They had someone who knew what they were doing. Do you think that was their response to the Internet. Maybe it's column It's like we need like interaction, like we need to replicate a message board, but under like very precise, you know, curated circumstances. Yes, yeah, it's funny because I remember reading it for sure, and we thought it was so funny. I remember we thought it was really funny. I wasn't interested in actual news, what was happening in the world. This is the thing. I read this and maybe the comics this is news. Yeah, this is news. So I'm gonna gets kicked off, Rob, you know how to play the game. Obviously, we're going to read one of these complaints I was actually printed in this column the Plane Dealer, and then we're going to decide whether they are a legit moan or an unnecessary grown I can kick things off. These ones are from July two thousand eleven, and here we go. I can't understand why these TV stations when they have a religious program on, always say they do not endorse that programming. I have pity on them because someday they will come to understand that's it. No city listed. What do you think of this one? Implying that the cable people might go to Hell seems rather harsh to me. Unnecessary grown feels insufficient as a way to describe this, like unnecessary damnation. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's just that's you took it there immediately, and that's that's a lot on a Monday morning, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I just yeah, I don't know if I can. I was raise it's Catholic, I know the mentality. I'd like to think, but like this seems like that escalated quickly is the vibe that I get from that. You know, what's interesting about this is like this person is treating like the TV station like it's like one entity, a person with their own belief and that really reminds me of what we were talking about, you know, with your Olympic skit review earlier. You know, when I was music eater, it's like we put a band on the cover and then I would send the album out for review and someone give it a terrible review, you know, and then later people would write in and be like, you put this band the cover, but say the record isn't good, and I'm like, the alternative press like this, yeah, and I'm like, well, because these are different people, like I don't like, I don't know what people are gonna say. And so that was probably the most complicated part of the job. But yeah, so this person is acting like this TV station is just one person who has like a one specific religious belief when probably maybe, yeah, maybe some people the station believe this religious saying maybe some people aren't his into it, but yeah they got to say that. So I don't think that means the whole station is going to hell. I don't know. Vanessa what about you. I'm going to take a leap here and say that this person thinks it's Christian programming, like this person's Christian, because what if it's Jewish programming, or what if it's another religious Like this, this person isn't really leaving space for like the multitude of religions that are out there. Yeah, I think they'd be okay with them not endorsing certain programming exactly exactly. And also I've got a huge edit for this person to make. I just want to read this sentence. This is the thing that always shocks me about Monday morning, the lack of proof reading. Okay, let me just say, let me read that first sentence one more time. I can't understand why these TV stations, when they have a religious program on, always say they do not endorse that programming. No commas in that sentence. By the way, here's how I would write it. I can't understand why these TV stations say they do not endorse programming when it is religious. To editors in the family, that's all you needed to say, buddy, Hey, maybe I'll take advice from you when you know how to write a correct sentence. But actually I won't. But also like, just just just write the sentence correctly. I have pity on them because someday they will come to understand I can't even understand your post, you weirdo. Why don't you take care of that first? Zero understanding or pity for this person. I find this to be a completely unnecessary, grown damnation, and I think this person can honestly go to hell. Wow, alright, I respect it. I was gonna say that. I think a crucial element of this feature is that you let them speak in their in their own words, right. It sort of defeats the purpose of reader interaction to edit them so they sound better. Except I will say this, they're not being recorded. They're writing it out. That's true. Okay, that's fair enough. They have the power to make it correct. Okay, all right, I think we're in agreement on that one. You wanna read the next one? Okay? Please, people, It is not fashionable to be late. It's not supposed to be nine ish or tennish. When it's nine, it's nine, when it's ten, it's ten. It is downright rude to be late. I gotta say something. First impression of this person. Also, they don't list their city. This is the person who when you're like, hey, I'm having people over for dinner at seven, this person arrives at six and you go wait outside, sir, Yeah, I'm vacuuming. Yeah. Can I ask how please people? Is punctuated? Is it please? Comma people? Period? It's like this. These people do not love. They love a run on sentence. It's please comma people, Comma. It is not fashionable to be late. Period. It's not supposed to be nine. Is your tennis When it's nine, comma, it's nine, semi colon when it's ten, comma, it's ten. Period. It's down hyphen right, rude to be late periods and hyphens we're putting on airs. Yeah, this person is person is not messing around. I guess persons more worried about using as much punctuation as possible than about I'm annoyed by this person. It might be because I am a late person by nature. We had kind of late people parents. I would say, I think that's fair to say, and I've grown into a late person. I think Jonah has been able to correct that better than I have. But I will say that you know I get it. So you're saying this is unnecessary grown for you. For me, it's an unnecessary ground. I'm not going to get it. Obviously. I would like a little more information on late for what, like, you know, my knee surgery, Like I can understand like desiring a little you know, like a child's baptism, you know, like there are some situations, you know, I would like to know exactly if it's a party, as you said as such, without you know, just taking this on the sentences and punctuation marks itself like this, this seems a little unnecessary. You know, they have damned us, and I do appreciate that, like we've established the floor, but this feels I would still say unnecessary grown for this, just without any information about what exactly people are being laid for. Yeah, I agree. We've talked about before in this segment. You know, it's a certain type of person that's writing these letters, and a lot of them revolve around kids are on their phones too much, kind of like this kind of cranky mentality, and this kind of figures into it, like where you're like, Okay, this person doesn't maybe sound that fun to hang out with and probably is very annoyed by many small things in life, so to me, it's like, yeah, people are late. I don't know, you don't know what's going on. It's yeah, unless it's, like like you said, Rob, like a surgery or something. You know, if someone's five minutes late and they say nine ish and shopping nine oh five, I don't really I think it's a bit of an unncessary ground. What percentage of the time in this segment is it a necessary moan? Like I feel like you really tilt towards Yeah, it happens, but it's more rare. It's pretty rare. Yeah, as you say, like the demographic that would participate in this and the you know, it's like these are unnecessary growners by nature, you know. Yeah, did you know, Rob? For a period of time, there was a thing called Thankful Thursdays, right, Jonah? Is that what it was called? Yeah, they replaced it. It was their answer to Monday moaning, but that lasted even shorter than I. Didn't take off the same way, didn't take off the same way. Again, who knew with you at the helm what they could have done, right, Yeah, I'm saying I could have turned it around. So Thankful Thursdays was just you know, I'm grateful you know that the Cleveland Browns are in the playoffs or that didn't actually ever happen, but you know what I mean, Okay, yeah, would have been yeah. Now, Jonah, do you want to read this next one which you feel pretty passionately about. This is the last one. This one is a bit long. This is our final one. I did some research on this one. This one is a lot to bear with me. It's coming from Independence and here we go independent school system moaning about a one point four million dollar deficit by two thousand fourteen. This could mean the loss of programs and teaching positions. They continue to pay a few janitors thousands of dollars in overtime. I viewed the janitor just sitting along with myself at numerous events. To save taxpayers of money, the school should do what the city has done for years. They hire part time workers. I realized rental charges include a janitor fee. Using a part time person could save additional money help us taxpayers. We support at school taxes for the education of our children. Our janitors make a fair salary on our taxes. This person was formerly married to a janitor. I have never heard like anti janitor content. Yes, in any form in my entire life. That's a very specific gripe. Yeah, it's weird because this person almost I feel like it's treating the janitor like it's like should be their private housekeeper, like, oh, you should be polishing something or doing something, you know, what do you care like? And they're on hand. Not only do they have like stuff to do all the time, but they're also supposed to be around in case that something happens, like they have a very important job. And also I would prefer if this person would call them custodians. Yeah. I think at least when we were growing up, that was the more acceptable word. And I want to flash forward because they're saying there's an independence is going to have a one point four million dollar deficit two thousand four, and I looked into independences. This was written in two thousand and I did some research and I found out from an article from Independent Schools is going to have an eleven point seven million dollars surplus. So, okay and Jonah read what you wrote after that in our notes, and then I wrote in our notes because this armchair economist wasn't in charge, there we go. When the kid yacts in the auditorium. Yeah, you know you're gonna want a janitor who's well, you're not going to go. Oh he's part time, he's not here right now. It's like also like what do you do? Why do you work? A good question? How is this the thing that's going to save the school millions of dollars in deficits? This seems like a very small specific piece. Like you said, Rob, it seems to me like there's something else going on here we don't know about. I've never seen a custodian drive off in a limo. You know, teenagers have to deal with such annoying kids and parents. Which it sounds like this is what this person is, and they're doing God's work, and this person has the nerve to say I saw a custodian sitting around and I feel like they should be working part time. It's like, hey, sir, and this also could be I don't know that this is a man, but like it. Why don't you just how about this? How about you get a life and why don't you work part time and spend a little bit of your time growing up, get a mop and get a clue pal. Yeah, when you go straight to hell. But the guy who wrote the first one Monday Morning that we read. It's funny because this is like the most kind of aggressive I think Vanessa gets. So this is really bringing out something. I also want to say that Jews don't believe in hell. So as I say that, I don't really mean it, but you do mean it, you mean Yeah, these people have gotten gotten to me. Yeah, to take a couple of deepress, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with unnecessary growing that seems like the right I'm not. I'm not swimming against this tide. Yeah, that's I am pro custodian as a class. Yes, absolutely, this is that person was married to a custodian. Yeah, I think so too. All right, Well, Rob, thank you so much anytime. Yes, thank you. Well, you should definitely come back. But where can people kind of see your writing here the podcast all that kind of stuff. Where can people find out more about you? Well, I write for the Ringer dot com. But yeah, these days I'm mostly doing the show which is called Sixties Songs That Explain the Nineties, and it's on Spotify. I think it's also on other like Apple and such now too, though I've never investigated that. But it's primarily Spotify, you can google it. I'm on Twitter at har Villa h A r v I L l A. But yeah, that's that's my gig these days. Amazing. That's great. Well yeah, well thanks so much Rob for coming, Thanks for having me. It's been great. Of course, thank you to everyone for listening. If you enjoy this, please subscribe for a podcast and check out next week's episode of How Do We Get Weird? We would discuss more stories from our childhood and cultural touchstones like our parents record collection. Yes and you and me are free to get you and me