Craig Finn is best known as the frontman for The Hold Steady and a successful solo artist but some of his formative years were influenced by peer pressure when it came to teenagers' favorite hobby in the nineties: Prank phone calls. On this episode we recount our own largely anticlimactic stories of receiving and making prank calls, Vanessa explains the way she views conversations between musicians from a comedian's perspective and of course we explore Craig's Cleveland connection, whether that means shaking it up in Shaker Heights as a child or playing to sparse audiences at the Euclid Tavern as an adult. Finally we once against revisit our "Legit Moan or Unnecessary Groan" segment, which sees us discussing if it's OK to talk at movie theatres before the previews start, if Browns fans should be ejected for standing at a football game and if income inequality can truly be blamed on the fact that Nicholas Cage reportedly sold a Superman comic book for $2.1 million dollars in 2011.One thing that we don't think you'll be complaining about is Craig's new solo album "A Legacy Of Rentals," which is out now and in Jonah's constant musical rotation. Trust us, it is very good.
Hi. I'm Vanessa Beyor and this is my brother Jonah. We're two siblings who love to talk about our childhood and nostalgia and how shaped us into the people we are today. We're pretty considerate, if I do say so myself. Welcome to how did we get weird? Jonah? I was just thinking the other day about the epic story of when Jewish Federation called our house during dinner asking for donations. Do you remember when that happened? Yeah? I remember. Our dad was not a fan of people calling during dinner time. This was something that could really set him off. And they called, he got up. I do have a vague memory. You might remember the specifics, bedder Well. I just remember like he got up from the dinner table, picked it up. It was Jewish Federation asking for money, and he said we've converted, yeah, and hung up. And then I think did he camp back and tell us immediately about it? Yeah? I think he was pretty proud of it. You know the thing that was pretty incredible about it because I think we could hear it too, Like, I think he did it without like any hesitation. Our dad's a real improviser, I would say, any kind of skills that I have from improv that I didn't learn, you know, in classes. It came to me probably from genetics of having a dad, or just from observing a dad who was so quick on his feet, you know, with that stuff. But wouldn't you say, it's like from the Dell Close school. That would be at the opposite of yes, ending being like no, we've converted, and then hanging up. Well, I wouldn't say, it would be the opposite. I would say, then he'd have to like, I've converted, and you know, I no longer believe in the Jewish religion. But if you want to call back with you know, I guess I don't have a great and it's a tough one, but I do think that would be pretty funny in an improv show if someone did that. And I guess that's how we experienced it, our dad putting on his own little improv show, trying not to give money to Jewish Federation. Amazing, amazing. Speaking of amazing today, I'd like to choose our guests. A song or musician best known as the frontman of the Hold Study. You might know his previous band Lifter Puller. He also has a new podcast series called that's how I remember it. And he's released five solo albums, the last of which is a Legacy of Rentals. Let's welcome Craig Finn. Hey Craig, how's it gone good? Thanks so much for having me, Thanks for being here. Yes, does that spark any memories for you growing up? Did you have the dinner time phone call type situations? Yeah, I mean there was always that. It felt like a barrage because they knew they could get you, you know, at that time. And again, you know, I always hate to I'm fifty, so I always feel like I'm being Grandpa eighties. But like before Color, I d it could be anyone, right, and so, you know, you tended to take it, but you know, usually it was just a quick like i'm sorry, we're not interested, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, our dad could have said I'm sorry, we're not interested, but he decided to go one step further so that they really wouldn't try and convince him. You know what they say back to that, you know, it was actually pretty smart and like a funny thing today because that's like they're just probably taking him off the list completely. After that, they have no reason to call, right and also they know, like, which is it real? Maybe the concept of like Jewish guilt, like that Jewish people feel guilty. I don't know. I feel like I feel guilty about stuff easily whatever. But either way, it's like I feel like they could try to guilt him, you know, into like being like are you sure you don't want to give? But if he's saying there were no longer practicing the Jewish religion, then there's not much left to convince, So pretty funny. I think we've also had carolers at our house, and I feel like our neighbors were caroling once. We should ask mom about the story, and Mom was kind of like, okay, bye and sort of like close the door. Did you ever have carolers come? Chrst for sure? For sure? And I grew up Catholic, which we also feel a fair amount of guilt, but carol ers, and you know, it's the weird one that I was thinking about is some of the just the or the door stuff. Like every year, this guy would come and be like, do you want to buy firewood? And my mom would buy it off of him. Yeah, And then the next fall, like another guy would show up and she'd be like no, I'm waiting for the guy, you know, like like he's our guy. But there's something like kind of quaint about that too, is like this guy. And also I don't know what is the negotiation there, like how much is? I guess you just say this is how much it is and then yeah, you take it right like I guess so. But yeah, it's interesting not being able to maybe call this person just be I'll just wait till this guy shows up and then we'll just figure it out. Yeah. No, I mean I felt like there was more. I don't know if this is true because I lived in Brooklyn and like people, I don't have a doorbellt well, you don't have that kind of relationship with people. But there was a lot more coming to the door. Do you want us to shovel your driveway? I grew up in Minnesota, so that was a thing quite often, those kind of things, you know, and then you know the obvious Jehovah witnesses, etcetera. That's what I was just gonna say is we would have Jehovah's witnesses come to our house, which Joah, this is so crazy. I was just in Cleveland and I was driving down Giles Road, which is really close to where we grew up, and there's like a Jehovah's Witness or maybe wait a second, I take this back, but there's somewhere near where we grew up. I don't know if it's on Giles Road or if it's on Chagrin. There's like it probably doesn't matter the exact road, right, Probably well for our listeners that grew up with us, there's a Jehovah's Witness like center kind of. And I do remember they would come to our house and our mom would be like, don't you know, But I think like once or twice, because like it's the same thing as the phone call where you don't have caller I D. It's like someone comes to your door. You're like, I'm going to open it and see, like what what's going on? And then if it would be a Jehovah's Witness, I'd love to get mom's take on this. It would just be like kind of a bummer of like, oh boy, okay, yeah, I think my parents were pretty brusque with them. Yeah right, you know I think it was like okay, bye, you know that we're not even entertaining this one. Yeah, I think our mom was probably pretty polite, but also we're not interested kind of closing the door as she's talking. Yeah, yeah, you know. I live in l a and people come to my door. Now. It's so funny growing up in a suburb of Cleveland where they would do that and it was totally normal, And now when people come to my door, I'm like, what the fund is wrong with these people out there? Like I remember when I first moved here, this one guy kept coming over to like it was this energy company and he kept coming by and I was like it was just so annoying. I was like, I can't believe this guy is like keeps coming and then finally he stopped coming. But yeah, now it's become a thing of like how dare these people come up to my door? Someone came to my door within the building and gave me a pitch on something and I was like, I'm going to call the police. You can't be inside the building, like you can ring my doorball and I'll come out there. Maybe, But it was a complete invasion. Wait, they came somehow, they got in the building right the front front door, and then they were up on my floor. Yeah, like knocking on doors, and it's kind of like, I think you're trespassing at this point. Yeah, yeah, it's not it's not good. It's not good. Jonah, did people come up to your door? I kind of live in a rural area. Now I'm in Western Massachusetts, and no, we don't really get people coming up to our door. You're lucky. Yeah, you know, my family is originally from Western mass and I did live in Shaker Heights for a little while too, So this is all, oh my god, two ships kind of stuff. Yes, well, we wanted to ask you about shaking it up in Shaker Heights. Yeah, I was very young. I was like three and four. I will say, you know, I'm doing this podcast on memories, and it's caused me to examine my own memory. My memory starts there in Shaker Heights. We lived in a like a first floor apartment, upstairs downstairs kind of building, and there was a supermarket next door. It was called Bordinarows, I believe, and I'm sure it's not there anymore. I actually like it was on newal Road. I found a postcard recently that a friend had sent me way back. It was actually really cool. It was a postcard from Iran. The stamp had the shaw of I ran on it, so historical cool thing. It was on newal Road, and I have been back. One of my college roommates was from there and I drove around. The supermarket is not there anymore, but that is my early memories. Our dad went to Shaker High High and yeah, I remember, I think I asked you about this a very long time, agot the grog shop, maybe very early on, but yeah, I was curious what you're going, And you must go back to Cleveland a lot to play, I'd imagine. Yeah, although I haven't been really recently. My dad went there for a job and then went somewhere else for the same job, so we were only a quick stop over. But they made a bunch of friends there that they kept their whole lives, which was kind of cool. And yeah, I haven't been back a while, but traditionally the whole studies like loved but we played the Beach one Ball Romanton. Yeah, Lifter Pollar would play the old Euclid Tavern often too. Oh man, the Euclid Tavern. That place was incredible. I think I played two different shows to zero people there, two different shows. It's like a considered like kind of a legendary venue now maybe also just because it's not there anymore. Yeah, I mean, like once you draw zero people, like what can you do but bring them back? When you guys coming back with those Lifter Polar shows or those are those are Lifter Polar shows. Yeah. Yeah, And we just listened to your podcast you it's doing with Fred Armizon, who Vanessa obviously has worked with a lot, and that episode was so cool hearing about the Lifter Pollar, trench Mouth, all of those kind of early days. Yeah, I mean, that's been a really fun thing and it was really fun to do that with Fred and also talk about his bandmates were also so funny. It was like this really funny group of people driving around in a van and doing an act that included music but like kind of kept going when they're in your kitchen or whatnot. Yeah, totally, and I feel like your band. I read Franz's book, his latest one, which is also like so I mean to me, there's just so much interesting art kind of coming out of your band outside of the music. It's so fascinating. Yeah, his book is really good, and you know there's so many books as a musician about bands and musicians that are kind of cringe e And I think he gets so much right. You know, there are a lot of it, As with any time you know a writer, you're like, oh, I know where that came from. I know where that came from. There's some familiar stuff. But he really does tell an amazing story with that book. What is the book called. It's called Someone Should Pay for Your Pain. And I think it Okay, Yeah, it's really good. It's about a a touring musician who's kind of down on his luck, but um, you know, things happen. You know, got it? But yeah, I think it's really interesting because it seems like there's some parallels in the sense of a lot of your songwriting is kind of fictionalized, but maybe based on some experiences you've had in that book sort of like in that way too. I mean, what do you think it is about that sort of dynamic? I guess. I mean, I think, you know, one of the things on the podcast I've been talking about with people, and I just had my own best friend, Eddie huts us On and he's a television writer and he works a lot. He worked on Lost and Trung Legacy and show Once upon a Time, and he works a lot in genre, right, you know, so he was sort of saying like, Okay, you know, you may not have a memory or a life experience involving a smoke monster, but when you go to like paint the picture of the kids room, the you know, the fourth grader in his room, you're like, well, I had a twins poster here, I had, you know. And so you do populate a lot of the outer edges of things, always with your own experiences. And I know it's a songwriter like I'll be telling a story and I'll need the name of a car, and I'm not really a car guy, so it'll look like and I'm like, the last uber who picked me up was an ULTIMU, So that makes it in the song. You know. So these things kind of pop into your songs, even if they aren't the main thrust of your thing, that they really helped to sketch out the details or you know, to decorate the background, so to speak. Yeah, that's really interesting. I feel like I do that too with writing, Like I either use stuff from my childhood or stuff recent that I'm like, yeah, I don't know anything about cars either, So I'm just like whatever car, Yeah, that stuff always makes it in and it's just easier, you know, to pull from your life and songwriting. I've always liked songs that like have a lot of details, like I love, you know, and I think there is like a school if you listen to, like some guy from Nashville say, like, you gotta keep it vague because you know, then people can put your own hopes and dreams in it. And I think like, if your goal is to get on country radio or something, maybe that's the way to go. But like I really like, you know, like things as detailed as possible that you know, that really spell out the scene. And I've always wanted to do that totally. You know, I feel like we exist kind of obviously you're kind of involved in comedy and you know, you have a lot of friends or comedians. But then also it's like I've seen you at like backstage of the Chuck Reagan Show or something. Yeah, and I feel like occupying those two spaces is always really interesting to me. Yeah, I mean, especially as like, you know, you get a little older and there's the people you end up like keeping in touch with her pomp, you know, someone like Fred who obviously crossed genres in somewhere. He still is very much involved in music. But you know, one of the thrills of having some success in music is to meet people who are doing cool things and other things, you know, whether other writers or a comedian or an actor, and being able to kind of plug into what their world, how that operates totally. I agree with that. I mean, I always think, like, when I'm talking to musicians, there's such a language that you have that I just don't have, and I find it like so fascinating. You know. I always am so impressed by a lot of the musicians that I met are so funny, and I'm like, wow, they have that too, Like I only have this one. But whatever, I guess I'll just deal with it. Correct. Do you get like, like I feel very comfortable talking to musicians, but I do feel when I'm talking to comedians or people that are really funny, I sometimes get really nervous or I feel like I want to like prove that I'm funny, or like then I feel like I end up just not saying anything because I'm worrid I'm going to say something to I mean, how do you sort of relate to that a couple of ways. For one of the first few comedians I met, I remember thinking like, wow, they're not always funny. They're having a normal conversation with me, and it's not a joke a minute, you know. But yeah, you can get into that if you don't watch yourself or your drinking or something. You can get into like trying to impress the comedian, you know, and that's that's a bad path. That's but I always say, like talking to people who are doing these cool things, there's usually something they'd rather talk about, you know, then their actual job, right, you know, especially if you're pretty new to them. So trying to find that is a technique that I tried to figure out. And you know, it seems like actors want to talk about music. Even when I meet like a sport an athlete, you know, they're they're like, you know, so then you can kind of go there rather than like I think they're trying to impress you. Music. I don't know. I mean, music is um, everyone loves music, but there is like, you know, total pull. While wise, I see music not as the top, you know. I was at a lunch with some people and a guy who grabbed the check, said the musician never has to pay because he was saying that we're broke compared to them. What's the thing that you like. Let's say you're on the G train, some hold steady fan sees you, they come over. What's the thing that you would rather talk about than music? I mean, baseball is an easy one, and I'm not like Encyclopedica baseball guy, but that's just kind of like easy, or you know what someone else's band, Yeah, not my own. You know, it's just hard to talk about yourself and then just be like thanks man, thanks man, you know, like it's really nice. Of course people are approaching you on the train and telling you they like you, but at the same time, it's hard to move the conversation for sure. Can I ask a question of both of you guys? That is just occurring to me? Like for me, because I do comedy, I don't watch that much comedy because I'm like, I get it. I kind of veer more towards drama, and I sort of like watching the thing that I don't do more. And sometimes when I watch comedy, although not always, but like a lot of my comedian friends, like sometimes we're more like critical of comedy sort of because it's like the thing that we do. Do you feel that way with music, Like you veered towards music that's not like yours, or when you hear music that's like yours you're sort of more critical of it at all. I'm definitely more impressed by music that's not like mine. You know, if you're like, wow, how did they do that? There is you know, some magic taken out of it by nature of it when you spend a lifetime and you know it might be even like I go to a show and I really like it, but I'm clocking, like what do we say in like six full? Yeah, you know how many tickets they sell tonight? And then once you kind of clock all that information, you kind of can enjoy the show or you know, it doesn't it's not necessarily distry acting. But a friend of mine went to a show one time. He said it was and it was great because there weren't that many people there so it wasn't crowded. And I was thinking, like it wasn't great for the artists that yeah, right right, that's interesting, that's funny. Yeah, we even played show in a while, but I played like in a pretty heavy band, and yeah, I don't listen to as much like Super Aggressive maybe once in a while, but it's Yeah, as I've gotten older, I think I've I've listened to less of that generally. The one thing I also found is like when I was young and going on tour, you know, you put on the the stereo in the van and everyone would be like, and now it's like, you know, everyone turned that off and everyone puts on headphones and listens to podcasts or something. Yeah, yeah, I can totally imagine. I mean yeah, And also there's a thing with like being on tour where even if you're on tour with the band you might not really like their music, when you watch them like ten times in a row, then you're like, I kind of like this, like it kind of clicks with you. Yeah, I have this theory or this it's like kickball rock because and so it's like the band, you're on tour with them and they're okay, but then you keep listening to them and they have like a song you start to really like, and then one night you get drunk and you play kickball with them and they's drunk and like late night park thing and then you're all best friends, and then they're the most amazing band ever, and then you're all through their time your own hometown and you're like, you guys, got to see this band. And then they come out they're like, well they're okay because they didn't get to play kickball with Yeah, they need So that's I love that. I feel like you really hit on something that's interesting, which is I think part of the reason maybe I'm not as drawn to stuff that's similar to what I do and maybe you guys aren't at times either, is because you're right the magic of it, because you get how it works sort of, so there's something magical has taken out of it, whereas like when it's different from what you do, just coming back to this feels like how did they do it? I think that's very interesting. I mean TV people, When I listen to TV people talk, it's like I'm like, I like that show, and then you know, then all of a sudden, you'll they be like, well you shouldn't because this this and this, you know, or oh I know I have yes, and it's just like, oh, I hadn't thought of that. I just thought it was really nice, like to sit down on the couch and watch that for thirty minutes. Now, I think we're all like that. Somehow, somehow in the past ten years, like everyone became kind of like critics a little bit of a junior show runner, you know, like, yeah, you're right, I would have done that differently, you know, like, I know totally. It is so funny too, Like I can be completely talked out of liking a show or a movie by someone like that because I'm like, well, they've got really strong opinions, so they're probably right. Like so I'll like fully be like this is the best show in the world, and they'll be like, but what about this, this and this. I'll be like, well, I guess it sucks. I'm so easily convinced. Yeah, yeah, it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. And you know, there's that's like, as much as I've been thinking about music, there's been people that thinking about TV, and it's just like, yeah, it really, it can derail, It can derail. You're you're yeah, well, we're going to take a quick commercial break, but we'll be right back with Craig Finny. All right, and we're back. So Craig, you sent us a bunch of amazing topics, but the one we decided to go with today was prank calls, which is just incredible. And I'm just curious, like why you pick that and what your kind of background is in the prank call world. I'm big, No, it's kind of what we were saying earlier about the caller I d And you know, our relationship with phones have changed so much since I was youth, since all of us were, and I have some nieces and nephews. I was thinking about things that they just won't do that we got to do. You know, I could never do prank calls. I was too nervous. I never got in trouble. I was a really pretty good kid, and I was like more like you know, like like scared and every once in a while you'd have to do one because of peer pressure. But you know, I just like hang off there, like they didn't go for it, you know. You know, but when you're talking about your dad and improv I had a good friend who should remain nameless, but used to do them like one after another or just like and I just sit and watch him and he would just riff. And his big one was this very strange. He would call up someone randomly and say like, hey, look, this is your neighbor. Could you stop throwing rocks at my house? And they would be like, well, I wasn't throwing rocks at your house. And these calls would get so crazy at times, I mean not everyone, but eventually he gets someone on the line who was just unhinged. I mean it could go on for twenty minutes and you know, it's like what kind of rocks, brown ones? You know, like just over and over. So it just like seeing someone like that who really liked it, thinking on their feet. But then there was also this other, more wholesome version of prank calls that I remember, like, you know, coming home and I had a little sister, she's five years younger, and it's like, where's Courtney. Oh, her and her friends are doing prank calls upstairs, Like it was just some parlor game that, you know, like I'm gonna bring some snacks up soon. It ran the gamut, obviously, I mean there's obscene phone calls too, but like it felt like just something that everyone was participating in. Yeah, yeah, I think that's true. I was never really good at doing them either. We did an episode of this podcast with Lisa Lobe were talked about landline etiquette. I did do a prank my last prant call. I remember doing it, and sadly, I was in college, so pretty old, and my friend Bruce was staying with us, and we looked, I don't know why we did this. We looked up in the phone book for someone whose last name was Burger b E R G E R and called and said, you know, it's she's there. And it was an older guy who just kind of sighed and was just so resigned, and it was We felt really bad afterwards, but I don't know that would fall maybe into like more of that's not a very mean spirited one. No, No, I think I bummed this guy out. Though he may have heard it before. I mean he probably moved past it. It sounds like it's stuck with you more than I stuck with him, which is how I am too. I'm getting a lot of mileage out of it now. Yeah. The first print call I remember, I think Julie Hill and I we were at our house and we called her neighbor. I don't know why we called like a phone number she knew, and we were going like cool, nails, you can get cool nails. Like we were just being insane and then mom picked up the phone and was like hello. We were like uh. We hung up, and Mom like talked to the woman she had like a daughter who was a year older than us, but she talked to the mom and like kind of apologizing and figured it out. And then we're like, fully, that's the other thing is like doing a prank call with so much riskier when you were all on the same phone line because like someone could pick up. So then we like fully got caught. Like I don't think we were really punished very much, and it certainly didn't keep me from calling catalogs and other things with accents and into home shopping and all this stuff and trying out voices. But later in my childhood, but like it really was so embarrassing to be just like fully caught, you know, and you remember, like they're going to trace it. There was always like that, I think they're yeah, yeah, and it was like can they trace it? No? You and then you know some other guy would have some like information, No, you have to be on for three minutes before they trace it. You know. There's like always the scientist, you know, it would get me so nervous, so nervous, like really maybe more than it should have when I look back, like I would actually kind of dread it when my friends would be like, let's do some prank calls, and I'd be like, oh no, because you know you're gonna have to do one eventually. Yeah, I mean some people really excelled it. Yeah. Did you ever listen to like, there's a Jerky Boys? And then of course there was a long my Poaching Castle and then I guess this seems newer, but like twenty years ago, like Buddy Head was doing them and releasing those CDs. Did you listen to any of that stuff? Yeah? I remember the Jerky Boys. I didn't go deep into that, but there were some other calls that maybe we're buddy Head. They were like you know those discs when we started touring in the early two thousands that would make their way through bands. Well, there was one guy who prank called Eddie Money. Did you ever hear that one? Yeah? I think that was a long mom pushing Castle, And I think there was another guy. It was like a band wanted ad and he was like this really enthusiastic, like he wanted to join the band. He you know, and he was like, I've got my AX, I've got my AMP, I've got my jack, I've got you know, like and then they were like, well, yeah, you know, we got to try out. He's like, well, what's the problem, you know, Like it was. It was just a super enthusiastic rock dude that was one of them. But there were Yeah, they were like these disks that people would burn you and then I never knew what they were, what they came from. There's a documentary I saw about long im Poshing Castle with a lot of musicians in it, and those calls were really strange because they were like someone trying to deliver like mulch to someone's house. They were kind of like dark and weird and they would just go on forever. Who were these people? I don't know that much about it, but it's kind of this like underground sensation I guess sort of like in like kind of like a subculture and feels like then the punk subculture or like where it came from exactly, but it felt like related to that era of like Buddy Head and chunklet Meg scene, and like it was this sort of prankster network but you know, there's that show Crank Anchors to Puppets and which I loved. Actually, but I think I just saw on the subway there's another season coming out. It's back, It's back. How do they do it with color I D? You know, I don't know. I don't know how they do it with color I D. But they must just call from a number that like unknown number and people pick up. Yeah, I mean you can scramble. I think you can scramble your number. I mean I still get, you know, calls that I know not to answer. But yeah, people might do it. Not everyone's that sophisticated. I guess they also must need to get the other side to sign off on it eventually though, right right, Yeah, I don't know how that works. Is that so good? I've never seen it. I thought it was funny, Yeah, I thought, I mean, the sort of the puppet aspect to it can kind of. I mean, some of it's very absurd, but I can't remember, but I used to watch it. Yeah, I'm sure the new season is very funny, but it just is scary to think about pranking people. Now. Have you has ever been the object of a prank call? For sure? I have I can't remember. And and that's the thing that makes me feel okay, is that for sure I was received him, and yet I don't think they like threw me off for that long. Right. I got one once that made me so mad in retrospect. And this is like kind of an unfair thing that happened, which is I was like touring the second City and I was staying at a hotel and like in the middle of the night, the phone in my hotel room, right, and it was this guy and he was like, Hey, it's your friend from high school or something. And I was like what and he was like yeah, And like basically he did this thing where like because I was so out of it when I picked up the phone, and because it was like in my hotel room, so it was like a landline, I picked it up and I was like, oh, maybe they need something at the front end, you know what I mean. So he like kept me on the phone for like a couple of minutes, and I was like oh, and I was like trying to figure out who it was from high school, and I said, like someone's name, and then he was like, yeah, that's me. Like it was like he was like sort of and then I realized that it was a prank and I was like, oh my god, this guy woke me up to just like prank call. And then I think I called the front desk about it, either that night or the next morning. They said, like we had got a bunch of complaints, like these people were like calling a bunch of hotel rooms in the middle of the night and waking people up, and it's like, what a piece of ship. Like I still think about how I wish I would have recognized it earlier and just said, like in my mind, I still think about like things I could have said that this person, Like could I have been like, actually, I don't know that this would have worked. But if I had been, like I'm tracing your call right now, I'm like a secret service agent or something like. I wish that I had like come up with like something to like really scare this guy. But I still don't know what it would have been. And I still don't know in the middle of the night, how convincingly I could have You know, it's that it was like an internal phone, yeah, yeah, how this person was able to figure out the numbers of people's specific room, Like were they always calling through the front desk, or were they able to figure out the numbers of the lines like in the hotel who knows, Yeah, I don't know. But also what a loser get a life you have? Sorry if that guy's listening. The other genre of pranks that we used to do was very sort of subtle, which would be just to be like, call up some guy in your class and pretend to be someone else and asked him to sleep over on Friday night, and then you know, sometimes he'd be like okay, and then like you're just like kind of just creating this chaos because at some point there's gonna be like, you know, he's gonna either show up or mention it in school or something. And that was just like the subtle, like there wasn't any big punchline, but you were just kind of stirring the pop. Yeah, I remember, And if you remember, Burger King had an eight hundred total number. Yes, Dred and I used to call this number all the time, and I do remember calling one to being like his Dave there and then being like hold on and then this guy getting on and being this Dave and that guy I was like, David fired. I really thought that this guy was gonna think he was like had lost his job, and I think I felt bad about it, And then I guess an adult, like, that's probably not how it works. The calls have stuck with you, but when I recount that as an adult, they don't have to say maybe real world implications. It felt like at the time, yeah, and that's comforting. But what was the intention of the burger King number? What was supposed to happen there? I think it was like just like a line where you could just talk about like any experience you had a burger King questions and comments. Yeah, I remember calling from like Temple. I just feel like we were always calling this number and saying weird stuff because it felt very like low stakes. I guess there was also a number you could call. It was like a number. I remember like calling it with friends. You could ask them anything, but it was like a branded thing, but it was like part of some companies branding, but it was like you could ask them anything. And I remember calling with friends and doing voices. Those were the kinds of things where I felt like they were safe to print call because their job was to pick up the phone and deal with like boring questions. And I don't think I realized it at the time, but maybe I subconsciously realized I was kind of like entertaining them. Yeah, I mean think about the alter the other calls they're getting. You're probably like on the top end, right yeah. And we've talked about I would call catalogs and voices and stuff like that. And I actually to come back to Julie Hill. I remember us once calling QVC and talking to someone and being like, can we come pick up the products? And they were like, no, we have to like ship them to you. And we were like, we want to come pick them up and they were like, no, Well, Vanessa and your experience of doing you know, your showtime series, I love that for you. You're welcome just to promote it. But imagine that at QVC or at these channels, they get all insane types of people trying to get on the air, right yeah, and now they have. When I was just they're selling for an hour, Jane Tracy, they were saying that they now have a testimonials line. They have a separate testimonials line at QBC now that people just call to like talk to the hosts and stuff. And it was really interesting because I got a caller who wasn't pranking us, but he said, like, we were selling the shower jel. Like truly, I got to sell for an hour with this host, which was really cool. But we were selling the shower gel and this woman got through and I was like, are you getting the shower gel? And she was like yeah. And this is a woman who had to, you know, stay in the line to give a testimonial. And I was like, and are you getting it for yourself as like a little treat for yourself? Are you giving it as a gift? And she was like for myself? And it's like this was and basically she wouldn't. She was like really not. You know, like I was like, well, what's your favorite scent by this brand? And she like named a scent that like we weren't selling, which was like fine, But it was just funny because it was like all this effort to get on the air and then it was like very little conversation she did it that is you know, I was just on the air. Yeah, she was just on the air. And then at one point I tried to joke with her and I said, are you a big fan of mine? And she just didn't respond, and I had to kind of like, what is it about getting on the air that is so like, what's the draw of it? I guess it's like a shopper. Well. I think there's a couple of things. One thing I think is that they really love these hosts and it feels like they're getting to talk to like these hosts that they feel like a real kinship with like a real friendship with two you know. And then I think the other thing is like everybody has, I think this sort of fascination with being on TV. So it's like you're on TV in a way, you know, like even though it's your voice, it's like you're on TV and people are like getting to hear you. I think there's like a real thing with that. Yeah, I mean I think that I remember calling into like telethons or those kind of things and being like, well you wave, you know, and it feels like it's working like it actually it is real, And making that connection through the TV I think is attractive. Yeah. One time I did a telethon, like when I was at S and L, like we volunteered some of us and answered phones for this telethon. I can't even remember what we were raising money for. But one of the performers I think, was like, I want to say Kanye, but I don't know if that's right. And this woman called me and she was like, I'm donating, but I also like, I am related to Kanye and you need to tell him. And I was like, well, I don't really have access to him, and she was like I'm his aunt, Like you need to like get this message to him. In retrospect, if she was pranking me, that was incredible because I was like, I don't know what to tell you anyway, maybe she was pranking me. What were you going to say, Jennah. I was gonna ask Craig if you heard this like punk rock prank call that went around a few months ago where Rob Dobe called into this conservative news channel and dropped like references to like you said today and all these bands. Yeah, that was impressive. Yeah, I did see that. There was like a video going on online that was that was totally impressive. He put fit like I don't know thirty band names in I don't know a minute and a half, two minutes or something. It was, Yeah, it's kind of incredible. Did either you guys ever work at a job that you like, I had to deal with the phones because I did. I had a job after college and American Express Financial Advisors, and I was on incoming calls and i'd like, you know, help people with their accounts and because that was like you know, I think I was on the phone maybe like six hours a day. Wow, way the headset, and there was some stuff that would happen. I was working with the mainly annuity, so a lot of the people were pretty old retirement age, so there were guys that would call and check their balance every day, like this is before the internet, so that you know, and it would be some guy who's probably a little bit lonely, so you'd say what his account was at that day, and then he'd be like, so what else is going on? It's like that's not my I can't I can't do this, you know. But there was some weird stuff. I think the phone allows us, especially allowed us back in the day to have a little bit of distance and maybe a little bravery that we now kind of have online. Yeah, I think that that's true. I think that's absolutely true. I think that's really interesting. I mean, so were you being like recorded at that thing. Yeah, well, it had like one of those be because a guy would call up and say, I want to move a thousand dollars from this account to this account, right, and then if he later said, I didn't tell you to do that, and then there was some code that I would give him at the end of the you know, confirmation that would sort of tell you where it was on this tape. And that rarely came up, but it did it every once in a while. There was some weird stuff. You talked to a lot of the same people often so that you know, there was a familiarity sometimes and eventually every once in a while someone would show up to the home office and you meet him in person. But mostly there was just these disembodied voices that you dealt with all the time. Yeah, yeah, wow, that's why. The guy who did my taxes for a while was Davey from the Promise Ring, and I used to send him so many puns about the band, and then at one point I needed some actual financial information about my accountant. He was like, I have to erase your emails, like everything is like nothing feels good, like a tax return all this stuff, and he was like, I have to raise your emails because you send me so much stuff that's like about my music, which is fine, but like I can get in trouble for that basically sure. Wow. You know now they have a thing where, like I remember, I feel like when Kyle Mooney started on SNL he introduced us to it. It's basically a prerecorded prank call and like you call this number on your cell phone and it will you can have it call somebody else and it just does all the work for you where it's like, hey, I need to talk to you, and then it like pauses and then it's like one of them is about cheating. One of them is about like financial Like I remember being at like the after party and just like him doing it and we would just like listen to someone he had called with it just respond which seems like such a cheat to be able to do that. You know. I don't know if you've heard those seeing them, no, but it just made me think that like all those phone calls that went up into the ether while were we not recording all of I know it would have been so you know the other thing that's like that I'm thinking of, like speaking about like recorded prank calls, like I did some calling around for like the some of the recent election stuff, and people have this thing when they have an unknown number sometimes where they have like a thing that picks up their phone immediately that is like, sorry, the kids are going insane, the kids are going nuts. There's like a few of them, and I would hear the same one a few times, and that's how I knew. It was like almost like punishing the person who's calling you that they don't have the unknown number that's calling you. So it would pick up and it would sound like a person was picking up, but it would actually be this prerecorded thing picking up that was like program to pick up any unknown calls, and you'd sit through it for a while before you realize that it was not real. Really, I've never heard of that. Yeah, I've never heard of that. That's the thing that people do, which is actually kind of smart. But the only issue is like for those few unknown numbers that are actually people trying to reach you, like you can't really leave a message or anything. I don't think although I can't remember, but definitely it like really works. It's like it was like very weird. Anyway, should we go to a commercial break, let's do it. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be back with Craig Finn. Alright, Craig, We're gonna do a new segment with you today. It's called Legit Moan or Unnecessary grown. Legit Moan Necessary groan is based on a column printing the Cleveland Plain Dealer. They used to run this column called Monday Moaning, where people would write in complaints, and then every Monday they would run these in the newspaper and me and Vanessa would read these. As a kid, I went online found a bunch of old ones. They disn this colum about ten years ago. So we're gonna read three of them, and then you're gonna say whether you think this is a valid moan like a value complaint, or an unnecessary groan. The spoiler alert, A lot of these are very unnecessary, but I can kick us off. Our first one is from Westlake, Ohio, and it says, to the self righteous idiot who sat in front of us at the movie theater last night and asked us to stop talking. People were just arriving and the movie was twenty minutes away from starting. I get being quiet during a performance, but I don't see the harm of talking to your friends before the performance. He needs to get a life. Craig, what do you think legit Moan started like, if the lights are on, you can talk. I think that's only fair. It's just you know, yeah, so you're saying this is a valid complaint, ye complaint? Yeah so you think before the movie starts it's kind of fair game. Yeah. I go to the movies fairly often, and I do talk before the lights go. Yeah, I mean, I think that's valid. There's a lot of trouble it starts, especially in New York in the movie theaters, when people start moving people around. Yeah, you know, like would you mind? You know, that's what always sets people off. But talking before that's fine, valid, whatever it is. Legit moan, Yeah, yeah, I agree with Craig. I think it's funny he calls this guy's self righteous idiot. Yeah. And I also think, yeah, twenty minutes, I can't imagine sitting in a movie. First of all, you're both there twenty minutes. That's pretty early, and then to tell someone to be quiet, like that's not even even the previous I haven't even started yet. I feel like that's a pretty valid complaint. I would say, or legit, legit, Yeah, I do too. Although I have a couple of comments to make about this. I don't believe that it was twenty minutes away from starting, because if it was truly twenty minutes away from starting, and this was ten plus years ago, it would have been those like word puzzles I'm going to call. It was probably like eight minutes before it was starting. I think it was an exaggeration, just based on context clues. The other thing is, if this person is so angry about being asked, why didn't they say this to the person? Like, I wonder, like, why didn't they say, hey, Like, I get like that you want quiet, and I will definitely be quiet for the performance, but like, you know, until the performance starts. I have a feeling that this happened during the previews, and this person wanted to hear the previews, and I previews is a bit of a gray area. I think what you think about talking during a preview before the actual feature is started. You'll notice that this person didn't say the previews had or hadn't started. Okay, So yeah, and I was thinking there's an unreliable narrator here. Yeah, I think the previous has started, then he has to shut up fair enough. Yeah, I'll agree with that. I think it's strange. Also, this person keeps calling it a performance. Yeah yeah, yeah, I get being quiet during a performance, but I don't see the harm of talking to your friends before the performance. I think. Also, I mean that the format that this is being discussed in the moans and groans is there's a potential for a certain kind of person to be hearing our grievances. Yeah. Well, it's funny they replaced this colum it seems like, briefly with something called Thankful Thursdays, And I don't think that column really took off the way Monday Morning day. Yeah, although one week we should do a thankful Thursdays and see if it's really something worth being thankful about, because I bet those are pretty funny too. But I just think I'm gonna say unnecessary grown because, like you said, Craig unreliable narrator, and also because I might actually side with this person if they were like the previews had just started, but we were kind of like getting settled. But it's like, I think this person is not being real with us. I also do feel like previews are a gray area. I think you generally want to be quiet for them, but I don't know as someone who's always late to everything, including movies, like, I don't even know what being twenty minutes early looks like. So I guess I'm kind of an unreliable judge, but I'm calling this one in unnecessary grown All right, fair enough, Vanessa? Do you want to read the next one? Sure? Sure, this next one is from this They sign their names with where they're from. So this person just said Cleveland, which, okay, the Cleveland Browns are horrible, but what is worse is the stupid procedure to try to keep the fans sitting. Even high school fans stand up and cheer. It is going to drive away a lot of the fans. We are furious about this. The experience is more than just the game. If it was about the game, no one would come because the Cleveland Browns have been losing for well over a decade. Change this. Let the fans stand up and cheer. This is the NFL questions about this? So I looked this up? Did Yeah? Two thousand twelve, some fans were kicked out of a Browns game for cheering. They've been standing up, someone asked him to sit down, and then they stood up again. They told an usher and they basically got kicked out of the game, and they released a statements saying, if you're going to sit on your hands a whole time, pretend you're at a ballet, there's no incentive for me going anyway. These people were really mad about it. A lot of people. This is a controversial thing in two thousand twelves, right right, right, Craig, What are your thoughts on no standing and cheering at a football game? I would think that, especially what you know as a sports fan, I think of the Cleveland Browns as a classic, you know, sort of blue collar, tough as nails situation. And I don't think that everyone just sitting down the whole game is what I equate to that. I think there should be some controlled amount of chaos at a football game like that, and I think that if they stand up, it probably means they're excited, and you know, there there hasn't always been a lot of excitement on the field, So I think they're being good fans in some way, and I think it's a legit, Craig. I mean, yeah, they're talking about the dog Pound. This is kind of a notoriously you know, energetic group. I'm wondering maybe the persons down was the same guy from the movie Theater who didn't end up talking twenty minutes before the movie is like I'm at this brownze game and this guy standing up like you know, maybe it's like just you gotta learn, you know, how to navigate your situation a little better and make, you know, not make everyone fit into your vision of what you think the world should be. Okay, once again, I disagree with both of you. And here's why. I think that it's one thing to stand and cheer. But let's say behind you, which is this is what I'm assuming, and I'm in both of these situations. I'm reading a lot into these moans. Maybe behind them was like a family with like little kids who couldn't see, or there was someone who like an elderly person who couldn't stand up and couldn't see like clearly. I don't think that they would have been asked to sit down if like the people behind them could like also stand and see. Like but it's like being at like a even when I met like a show and people start like standing and clapping I'm like, sit down now, I have to stand, even if I like the performance. Performance. But anyways, I just think, like, clearly these people were asked to sit because the people behind them their view was obstructed, is what I think. And then it's like, yeah, if I'm sitting in a section full of tall people or people that are able to stand, I stand. I do my thing. But once someone behind me has said that they can't see they want me to sit down, I gotta respect them, or I gotta like maybe offer them my seats, and then I go behind them and I stand. I actually kind of do want to look at this story more closely. I'm curious what the context was of I needed to sit. The interesting part about this letter, too, is this wasn't the person who has kicked out writing a letter. This is just some random person who's mad about this. It wasn't there. Yeah, they say they were not drunk, they're not rowdy. All they did to stand up to cheer on the Browns. Yeah, it feels like we're missing information. Yeah, I wonder. I'm starting to wonder that if we did a hundred of these, if we'd start to think right now, I'm kind of with you. Is that I'm only reacting to the story on paper. But I agree that there's probably this is a one side. I mean, you know, all we did was stand up and cheer, like you could hear the guy yeah you know, and they're like, well so yeah, well look, I call this an unnecessary I think context is everything, you know with these Monday moment Yeah, I think it's a legit moment, but I think I could be easily swayed with the details. The details. Yeah, there would be an awesome if the all of a sudden we put like we're able to show on camera what actually happens, and then everyone would be ashamed. Alright, So our last one is from Brooke Park, Ohio, and it says people are wondering if they're going to lose their home or where their next meal is coming from. Then you have people buying comic books for two million dollars. If you can buy a comic book for two million, you have too much damn money. That's it unnecessary. I feel like, yeah, I mean, I don't think that that is the answer to world hunger. I think that you know, maybe this guy is buying a comic book for two million next year he sells it for three million one to charity. You know, we don't know. I don't think there's enough information in there that makes me agree. Well, Craig, I did some research on this, and it turns out in two thousand eleven, someone sold Nicolas Cage's Superman comic Action Comics number one that was found in storage locker for two point one million dollars and apparently was stolen from Nicolas Cage's house in two thousand and then recovered eleven years later when an unidentified man bought the context of a storage locker. So and Nicholas Cage bought this comic for a hundred fifty thousand dollars. I guess this money went to Nicolas Cage. We think maybe, right do we think someone? I don't know. He hasn't confirmed this story. And also this was ten years ago, so I don't know. Well, I guess either way, I don't care. But if that really changes anything, yeah, I hate this person's gripe. Thank you for doing the research that John, It's my pleasure. I think this person is gripe. Well, what do you think, Craig. I think this person is saying, if there's money, it should go to a better cost. But I just don't think comic book or a car or a you know, there's a lot of luxury spending out there. I don't think that just declaring a comic book to be I'm not a comics guy, but to be to be lesser than a sports car or you know whatever else collectible items people spend a lot of money on, I don't think's valid. So I'm saying unnecessary ground. Yeah, I agree with Craig. I think if this person had presented it maybe in a different way, talking about maybe sex, systemic issues of income inequality, or like a critique a capitalism or something, that's one thing. But to be like someone paid two million dollars or comic book, you have too much money. There's a lot going on in the world right this, I don't know. This person is really being held to a pretty high standard, whether Nicholas Cage or not. I agree. I think it's a little bit unnecessary. I think it's a little used, but I understand, and I just jump in real quick and also point out that if the hundred and fifty thousand bought it at some point before it became worth two point two billion dollars, it's a very successful investment vehicle. Yeah, it's not just throwing money away. It's actually if it continues on that, it's it's a very good investment for for whoever that's true. Yeah, and I guess, yeah, so that that was a great investment. And so yeah, what does this guy's think everyone who's investing shouldn't be investing when they hit a certain amount. It's it's slippery slope. That's a good but that's a really good point, Craig Vanessa, what are your thoughts? Well? As my very close, very smart friend R. L. Stearns says, or has said to me in the past, money is fungible. And I kind of know what that means. But I think what it means is like money is money, And as you guys are pointing out, like, who's to say that this person doesn't pay two point one million dollars for a comic book? And then the person who received the two point one million dollars isn't donating one million of those dollars to charity. So it's like and to say that someone has too much damn money, you know, I guess I say to that person, well, who are you to say that? I wish I had something stronger to say that that person. But the point is, I just think that, like if you're gonna equate, like some people are wondering where they're next, It's like, you can't just pick on this one person for spending two point one million dollars. People spend that kind of money on art all the time. At least a comic book has like content you can read in it. By that logic, you could say like, and you know, so I feel like this person, I think this is an unnecessary grow And as you said, this person whoever bought this initially Nick Cage or whatever, you know, they've made a good investment. And then now they're selling it for two point one million dollars. And maybe there was some theft who knows and Nick Cage involved, We don't know the details. But regardless, this person is complaining is making kind of a blanket statement that if you spend two million dollars on a comic book, you have too much money. You know, I'd love I'd love for this person to think bigger, is what I'll say. Did you say you thought comic books were more valid than art because you can read them. I'm saying some are Okay, Okay, I not saying all art. I'm just saying, you know, I bet people have paid more money for like art that is, I'd rather read this comic book probably, and look, I'm not a comic book person, so that's it a lot. I probably really don't like this art. But yeah, I think in certain cases, yes, you heard it here, Wow, controversial. That's why people come here. They like to hear the edgy Craig. Where can people find out more about you? Your music, your albums? What's the best way to get on this sort of get the info? I guess Craig Finn dot net or um Steady Craig on Twitter, Steady Craig on Instagram. I don't know Facebook because I'm scared of it. So I'm there. So those are the places, and I'm touring uh a lot this fall in the US and in Europe. So amazing. That's great. I want to say. Also, Craig News record A Legacy of Rentals definitely one of my favorite albums. Two. I know we're only halfway through, but Craig, such a great record. Thank you. I'm really proud of it. It was definitely like one that I wanted to do a little differently, and I felt like we got there. And I'm always, especially at my age, trying to create something that says some elegance to it, but I think we hit it this one, So I'm really proud of it. And I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, of course, And thank you for doing this podcast, especially this last segment My pleasure, and everybody check out Craig's podcast. That's how I remember it. And also thank you, correct thanks so much for having me. It's really fun. I think that you might consider a coffee table book of these moans and groans, because I feel like it's like a party game, like you could have cards like a trivial pursuit, and you could pull them out and then you'd all have to talk about it because I'm picturing, and I bet you there's a guy who's like a repeat customer, for sure. For sure. The thing that's so hard is that everybody signs off with the city that they're from, so you don't have people's names. But I wonder if we digged a little deeper with the editors of The Plane Dealer, well, I wonder if anyone else is like looking up these archives ten years afterwards. Besides me, also, so I'm wondering if the joke's kind of on me a little bit, well, the jokes on our entire audience. By that line, good point. Well, yeah, thanks again Craig for joining us and everyone for listening. If you enjoyed that, please subscribe to the podcast and keep it out for next week's episode of How Did We Get Weird? But we will discuss more stories from our childhood and cultural touchdown to Like Frank called, hey, thank you guys. It was so fun. I really appreciate it.