Hi. I'm Vanessa Beyor and this is my brother Jonah. We're two siblings who love to talk about our childhood and nostalgia and how it shaped us into the people we are today, who are very into the wilderness. If I do say so myself. Welcome to how did we get Weird? So, Jonah, I was thinking about I guess two weeks ago kind of a more recent story when I kind of gave you an ultimate hosting dare on Twitter. Do you want to elaborate? Sure? Yeah. So me and my wife VICKI were out in l A and, um, we're hanging out. We're doing some some podcasts in person podcasts which everyone will hear more about later. But we were spending some time together catching up and we went to get lunch. And I don't know how this happened, but you dared me twenty dollars to take a photo of this sandwich that was like I'd already eat in half of it, so it wasn't looking So let's specify it was a class. It was a Turkey Club sandwich, right, yeah, Turkey Club sandwich. And it but it was like it was like a twenty four dollar Turkey Club sandwich. So it was a really nice sandwich, yeah, really expensive, really expensive sandwich, and I basically said, Jonah, you'd only eat in half of it. I said, what if you took a picture of the leftover half of sandwich and you posted it and you said a glow up on a classic Turkey club sandwich and then you wrote up, Yeah, so this is not really what the type of stuff that I post. I don't really use terms like this. I don't really post food. I feel like it's like very out of character, right, And that's kind of was part of the dare. But also because on this podcast, you very recently or at least within the last year, learned what glow up means. And it feels like whenever CEOs or you know, big corporations use the term glow up in their marketing, it really kind of ignites something in you and makes it really mad. I thought it would be funny if you kind of made a very, for lack of a better word, basic post where you said a glow up on a classic Turkey club hashtag glow up and um, and you posted it, and what do you think what I said you weren't allowed to say. It was a joke. You had to live it right, and you were going to get an additional five dollars if you sorry hashtags sorry not sorry, and I couldn't yeah, if you didn't, if you did a comment on the post, and I had to have some dignity laugh, you know what, I have to be honest. It's basically I feel like people saw it and just completely ignored it or tuned it out or like this is It was basically just not a lot of people interacted with it. I think people people don't like seeing that and it was like a really bad photo, but it seems it was a cool photo. I thought because of your phones camera it was actually I think people probably thought it was serious because people post a lot of that kind of stuff on the internet. Um so I think people were like, I don't I don't know what people thought. I thought it was interesting that no one really made any comments about it like that. Nobody wrote like Jonah, this is so weird that you said that, and in fact, one or two of your friends like just liked it, as if people are just really showing off your sandwich. Yeah to me. I now wonder if anyone listening to the podcast will see your tweet and and it will kind of hit them a different way now that they know it was you were dared to post it. But look, it's it's been up there for a little while now, and no one, no one's really making a big deal about. People have a lot going on, you know, to get this obscure joke that is probably not funny to most people. You know, they probably just moved on with their lives, you know, right, absolutely, But but yeah, but I haven't taken it down. It's still there. If you want to see what my sandwich looks like, you can check it out. You can like it. It could still go viral, you know, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I think it's pretty incredible that you took me up on that dare. And I don't even think I'm giving you the twenty bucks yet. Yeah, so you can you know my vemo names, so you can just maybe after the podcast you can just yeah that mote over, Vanessa, did you want to introduce today's guest? I would love to our guest today is a singer songwriter who you might know from the band Something Corporate or Jack's Mannequin, or you might know him from his current act. Andrew McMahon the Wilderness, whose fourth album, Tilted the Wind No More, comes out in March thirty one. He's also the founder of the Dear Jack Foundation and the author of the mem or three pianos. Let's give it up for Andrew mcgraham. Hello, good job, really good. Andrew's it going? It's going good. I was I was dying laughing through that that that sandwich story. I wanted to talk, but I realized that it probably wasn't my time to speak. But I was enjoying it. I saw you laughing, and that made me feel good because I was thinking, because it's just not gonna be funny to anyway. I mean, there is a lot of that stuff on the internet, right Andrew, there's a lot of bad sandwich photos. Well, yeah, but I like to glow up that that was. I think that was I would be similarly disgusted, and I appreciate it. I appreciated the dare because I could see myself getting dared into a similar situation. Yeah. I was almost offended that no one called me out. I was like, do people think this is sort of how I am? I know, that's kind of how I felt. I was like, why aren't any of Jonah's friends seeing there's a problem here and and wanting to like come to his I think there was just a lame I think there might just be a higher level of sceptence of that than than maybe even we realize, you know, like your friends are like maybe a glow ups. Okay, right, Well, the other thing is I've started lightly trolling Jonah on Twitter, and sometimes I'll find his posts and I'll make fun of them, and I will say, sometimes you want to you post in such a way. And sometimes I'm not on Twitter as much, right, I don't see it, but sometimes you post in such a way that I act like you're asking for people to kind of and by people, I mean me to kind of make fun of it. Like you'll be like, you know, doing a lot of puns and kind of like stuff that I I love that you do that. I think it's very I think it's funny. I think it's endearing. But I also think, like you want to get real. It's nice. It's nice when you have like a sister who's a comedian who has way more followers than you, and you try to post a joke and then you get like, oh wow, looks like my brother is a comedian now or something totally condescending. The most condescending, The most condescending way I like to troll you is by mentioning the subject that you're sort of making fun of or doing a punt about, and then saying like, oh wow, my brother is talking about this subject now, like just sort of the most condescending, like really, oh, now he thinks he knows about animals. You know, he's found he's found a way to make fun of nature. That's really now. Joan is an expert on blank Is it very common? Oh my gosh. Yes, I mean I think my sister would would like to har ask me similarly on on social media, but I think she she holds her tongue. Yeah, well, I hope she listens to this because I will tell her directly if she does. It's mostly supportive, but I'll get it. I'll get it offline for it is a blast. It is so much fun. Also, I think like he's a cool guy and he can handle it, you know, but it's fun to just go on there and just absolutely ras him. That's wonderful. That's good. Clearly you guys have a great relationship. I can tell well, it seems like on paper you and your sister have a better relationship. We do it, we do, Okay, yeah, we were surviving. She is your sister younger or older. She's older by you know, sixt eighteen months. Yeah. Oh wow, you're so close in age, super super close in age. Yeah. So yeah, we we we beat the hell out of each other as as children, but we do better now. Jonah is older than me by twenty six months. Usually say two years, but twenty Yeah, if you want to get granular, Yeah, that's impressive. Twenty five and a half. Yeah, clearly you're keeping close track. Yeah yeah, well a little bit of a mathematician. So, Andrew, we were talking before started recording me. You and Vanessa recorded a podcast together in two thousand fifteen. Yes, what do you remember about that? That? That feels like it was like fifty years ago. I mean it does. What I remember is like, I'm a I'm a fan of your sisters. I mean obviously I'm a fan of yours now Jonah as well. But I I remember being like, what, that's amazing, Like I get to go talk to Vanessa mare and I was super excited. I do remember her giving me like a little bit of gouff if I recall directly in that moment, but that I felt special in in that gulf. And we obviously we share a we share a through line of having gone through I think the same cancer when we were younger, you know, and and so I I remember being like and I didn't. I didn't know that. I think going into the into that podcast, well, you would have you had read my email when I sent it to you. However, many years ago, when you were going through your are not responding to every emailsolutely ignoring my email? Should we give some contact. I don't completely remember exactly how this went down, but as everyone, you definitely remember more than anyone else on this conversation. So when I everyone, I've talked about it many times. I was sure. When I was fifteen, I had leukemia. I'm doing great now, but I was treated for a couple of years, and then I guess I don't know. I remember reading an article in a magazine about you, Andrew or something about you being how old were you? I was twenty two, So yeah, were two? Yeah, yeah, And that was like two thousand and five. Yeah, and so I was kind of in between my first two projects. It was in between something corporate and Jack's mannequin at that point when I when I found out I was sick. Yeah, and so I think I must have read about you, maybe did some interview or something in a magazine, even as I was working at Alternative Press. So maybe it probably was Alternatives. Yeah, well, if it was a magazine, it was probably Alternative Press, because I'm pretty sure that's the only magazine that's ever written about my career to this day. I felt like we we wrote about your career a lot. Yeah. I'm also pretty sure like I wasn't reading it. I was more reading like you know Why I Am and seventeen than I was like all the music magazine, So that's probably there. There's are actually a pretty good chance that at that point, like I was, I think cancer actually made me more famous than my music did, And so I think there's a chance that there was some teen magazines that were, like I was gonna say, maybe I did actually read it in like seventeen that's something yeah, yeah, yeah, my publicist was working over time at that moment. I think, yeah, as you know, as they should, And I must have gotten your email l addressed because I was like, there's no way your email address was in that article, so I must have gotten it from Jonah, I think. And my email address at that point was probably something very offensive at a o L dot com. Yeah, yeah, so I like emailed you to say, probably I'm Jonah's sister. I had leukemia. You know, let's see two thousand and five, so I was sick in like seven to ninety nine, so like or I was treated from ninety nine. So I probably was like, you know, I had leukemia five years ago, and you know, if you need anything or you want someone to talk to you about what it's like or whatever, like, please reach out. I'd be happy to talk or be of help in any way, probably something to that effect. And yeah, and the response I got was you say zero not so yeah, So just so you're aware, like my I mean, even if you look at like me on social media now, it's like my connect into the digital sphere like from the time, like from a very young age, has been virtually nothing but I But I think that married with the fact that I was like, anytime somebody reached out to me there like I had cancer too, I was like, I definitely not going to talk to that person, like I was like, I had this, which is the worst thing. By the way, if anybody who's gone through this is listening, like, it took me probably five or six years before I actually like started making cancer friends, you know what I mean, and which changed my life. It actually made my life so much better. And if I had done that, I think I would have circumvented like maybe five or six years of like really bad coping skills. And I think that's probably why you reached out to me. You're like, I'm gonna help this guy not do the dumb thing that everybody does. But I was like, no, I'm just gonna actually just drink a bottle of something every day for the next few years until I figure it out. I probably reached out to you because I genuinely wanted to help, but also because I thought you were a cool music person. This was my inn just to be like before putting everything on the table. And also I just want to say, if I were you as much as i'm ras and you, like I razed Jonah on Twitter, I if I were you and I and I was going through this thing and this absolute stranger had like gotten my email email and was like if you need anything, You're like, actually, i'd love to talk to people I know one conversation with the past. And I also want to say your instinct to not want to like fully sort of group yourself in with other people who have cancer gave me such a visceral memory of when I was first diagnosed. I remember they um, and I mean this in such a I mean this in a way that I was like, very naive. I don't think this was the right reaction or whatever, but I remember, like I was, I would always go to overnight camp, and then I remember when I was diagnosed, they were like, you can go to this overnight camp where everyone has cancer, and like they gave me the brochure and there's all these kids with like no hair, and it's like you don't you want to go to this camp? And I was like, no, absolutely not. And I was like I just didn't want to be like you know, you you just, especially when it's new, you don't want to be it to be your identity. And so it feels I think like if you if you then are like I'm gonna I'm all in. I'm gonna like just like be talking to only people who have this it's like it makes it even harder because you're already trying to accept the personal part of like being someone with an illness that you don't want to be like, oh but now I have to change all my friends and everything to dude. For a short time. I remember they started like parading people into my hospital room. They were like they're like, here's somebody who's gone through this too, And I was just like, can you please not send another person in here that was like young with cancer, Like thank you? Like yeah again, now, I I like, I see the error in my ways for sure, because it really it really did. I feel like once I finally like had a little bit more space and then then I was able to talk to people, was like a it was very helpful. But again, like the things that you know when you're twenty two, like you're not in the habit of making great decisions in general. But you know, I also I feel like you probably weren't ready for that. You had to be like I remember talking to people who had been sick. Once I was sort of more ready to do that, But before that, I sort of just wanted to talk to my same friends and talk about like the gossip that was going on at school and dumb teenage stuff I didn't I that was the stuff that made me feel normal, was to not be like constantly talking to other people who had cancer about cancer, you know, and speaking of which, Jonah, welcome to the club. Yeah. I was diagnosed with leukemia in two thousand nineteen, so just a couple of years ago. Just like maybe different kinds, different kinds quickly. You're not serious right now, are you? Yeah? Yeah, I am, but not not a L. It's called hc L, so it's Harry cell leukemia. So it's it's very rare. Lukeemale, there's listen, a thousand cases a year or something like that. And so you know, I did chemo. I'm doing a lot better. But um, I'm realizing as you two are talking that I actually pulled like a Vanessa move recently and you did. Yes. By the way, Jonah is doing great. I want everyone listening to know that Jonah is doing great. He had a week of treatment, he's doing much. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. I'm sorry, I had no idea that you had gone through that. That's crazy. I mean, yeah, it's it's fine. But yeah, so we're all both had leukemia, and uh the type and not to be down there, but yeah, the type I have is like super super rare, not not, you know. And uh so I read that the guitar player in Sebastian Bach from Skid Rose band was diagnosed with HCl with this, with this, yes, yeah, And you know, I watch a lot of live music on YouTube, but don't go to a lot of shows. But if if a band I'm even tangentially interested in has a life concert on YouTube, I've probably watched it or watched clips from it, and so I kind of recognize it's kind of emailed. I know their publicists at emailed. I was like, hey, it's Jonah, Like I saw this guy has HCl, like I have it. It's very rare, like if you ever want some time he was like, okay, thank you. Never never heard it? Nothing, nothing, nothing, And is it like a worse feeling than when you reach out to like somebody just that you like if you're like you're like trying to be like a cancer brother and and you got crickets? Is it like like really a few at that point? I mean, Vanessa, I mean obviously you've carried this for a long time. For me that you hate me clearly because but how did it feel for you? Jonah, Yeah it was. It stung a little. I mean I kind of but but you know, it's sort of to your point, you're I mean, I guess in this analogy that would be you. Um, you know, I get it. People aren't ready and I've actually done some some kind of like online thing, so talking to other people with with with my fabulary human and it is kind of like it can be kind of a bummer, and so I kind of I get it. I just felt like I was kind of framing was like, oh, I'm this cool guy who worked in music, Like you're in this band with a guy from Skidero, like and I think, like Vanessa, like we should be friends. Um, it was like our our ulterior motive. I'm not just reaching out to random people. But yeah, I guess I part of me kind of expected to reply. But I didn't have a lot of less stock in it. So it's fine. I haven't really thought about it until you two start talking. I was like, oh, I did the same thing, but like a couple of years ago, not when I was like twenty. Well the other thing though, in your defense, Jonah, is that the thing that you had is super rare, Like it is pretty crazy that you guys both whereas like what Andrew and I had. You know, I'm not trying to diminish it, but also it's like one of the most common childhood cancers, you know, of all times, It's like it's like I was, you know, and and the number of times that I said I'm Jonah's sister when I was in my teens early twenties and tried to get something out of that, you know, I couldn't even I couldn't even tell you. It's just some millions of times. And I also absolutely would have punished this guy and asked him about the solo and eighteen in life and what kind of guitars are you? I mean, he would have had to answer a lot of like musical questions he didn't sign up for. Jed, I think this is the time for the follow up based on what you said previously, Like I can tell you're you're clearly not ready for this, but I just I wanted to follow up and just like let you know I'm still here, like yeah, and I just want to I just want to underline, like Andrew as much as again I love to make fun of this, I do think that there is like it's not that you were making the wrong decision when you didn't email me back and being questionable, but like it's that it's that you weren't ready to have that conversation, and by the way, you weren't ready to have it with a complete stranger, like maybe you were ready to have it with a noncomplete stranger. But I will say those kinds of talks like I feel like, if you're ready for them, they're great. If you're not, because I would. It made me. It reminded me too that I went to this focus group or something for at the hospital I was treated at in Cleveland with other people who were young adults, like when we were all maybe in our early twenties, and it was so interesting for me to hear about how all of us were kind of managing being adults after having this thing that was very kind of sort of made us revert kind of in our development when we were teenagers. And so to me it was like a very uplifting thing because I was like, Wow, I'm not the only one who feels this way about these things. But before that, you know, for example, and I was asked to go to this overnight camp. I was like, take your brochure and put it, you know, put it back on the and so, just so you know, I think there's a really good chance I never even read the email. Oh I know, you know, but only because I probably wasn't even reading email, like I like, I so badly want to be able to get back into my old email address just to research whether I tried to find I think I tried. I'm having flashbacks now of trying to find it before we did the Going Off Track podcast in two thousand fifteen and not finding it, which is so disappointing because I really want to. I really want to know what it said. I want it's probably so clear that I just think you're cool. And also also so as a side note, willing to give you advice if you find it, I'm definitely going to frame it and put it into my living room. Um, well, I'll be on the lookout. Okay, sounds good. All right, Well, I'm glad we resolved that we're going to take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back with Andrew mcnapp. And we're back. So Andrew, you know, we wanted to get into our topic a little bit today. And I remember when you were on Going Off Track in two thousand fifteen, we talked about piano a lot. We talked a lot about Bruce Hornsby, if you remember, yes, big fan, we talked about I think you watching maybe the Mandolin Rain video and kind of picking up some some some moves that sounds about right. Yeah, I'm a I'm a big I'm a big fan of like his there there, yeah, there, we've we've talked about this, but in the rehash, Yeah, they're a handful of Bruce Hornsby moves that have informed my my playing eternally. Like you know, I stole like one and that's pretty much my only trick. Well, you know what I think is really interesting about you is, you know I worked. We didn't really know each other very well, but you know I worked for a p and I was on the Warp tour from you know O two and maybe oh three oh four, and I think something corporate was on because I remember you would come out with this piano covered in stickers. Um, it's literally one of my shoulder right here, you have it still, Yeah, And so what I write on still to this day. Yeah, incredible. You still write on it? Yeah, yeah, I've used it for gosh, I mean every record for the last I don't know, I got ten or fifteen years. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, because I remember, like I work, we did the programs, and so I remember it was like they had to get this piano off the truck, like all the stuff we are on the stage of very short changeovers, like and you know, I always thought I was like, oh, Andrew's like making piano cool because it's like, you guys were on this kind of punk label, this punk festival. You this piano covered in stickers, but it was still was like a piano, which isn't traditionally considered like quote unquote, it's an instrument we're all kind of forced to play as kids or used to be. I mean, what was it like, was it hard to make piano cool or was that natural? Or just to clarify, I just want to jump in and say, our topic for today is taking piano lessons as a kid. It's just just to center, but go ahead, go ahead, Yes, So, I mean being cool was something I was never very good at, so that that that is always like a funny concept to me um. I mean even when Drive Thru signed something corporate, like, I was so confused, like we were you know, you said you mentioned Bruce Hornsby. I was like, I was listening to I was listening to like Ben Folds five, Semi sonic, like you know what I mean, Like the bands, I was listening to a nice Travis you know. Uh. And and so when a punk label approach us, I was like, dude, there's how are we gonna we can't tour the punk bands? Like, no, that that's not gonna work. And then I just underestimated that scenes sort of willingness to sort of wrap their arms around around what we did. But yeah, it was hard. I mean carrying a piano around on tour, and when you're touring in a van, you know, it's like a it's a sucking it's a five hundred pound instrument, you know that that we you know, we we didn't know how to tune it. We didn't know how to do any of that. And we would just we would just tow it onto stages and like and try and figure out ways to make it like to mike to mike it with all these loud instruments around it you know, it was like it was. It was a real trial and error thing. But that word tour that you're mentioning was it was. It was really weirdly like the arrival of something corporate in that scene, which I'm still to this day kind of shocked that they took us in. Yeah, and I think so. I'm sure you know, throughout the years, people were like, just bring a keyboard to uh, oh my god, dude, if you if you knew how many angry sound men in nightclubs where we were playing to like four or five people were just like your kid, when you go ahead and get a keyboard, you know. And we put up with it though, because honestly, I think it it's circumvented our ascent in a huge way because because we had the sort of nerve to show up with this piano, it forced people to listen. Even when we were playing with bands that didn't sound anything like us, they were like, wow, that was gutsy and we were remembered for it, and I think that that helped a lot. Yeah. Wow, I still have people say that to me, the keyboard thing, even to this day, I mean it still it still happens like you've never thought of that, You're like, thank you, I really appreciate it. I can't jump on a keyboard and have it worked for me later. You know, Jonah and I both took piano lessons as kids. If I recall, I I stuck with it a little bit longer. But the thing that I remember was like I had real different piano teachers. Jonah. I don't know how many you went through, but they I remember all of them, and I remember like liking some more than others. Did you when did you start playing piano? And did you stick with the same piano teacher the whole time? Okay, so my parents started my sister and I in piano lessons when I think I was six and she was seven. I made it through. I think I made it through like three lessons, and I was I mean, and I liked to the piano like I had already kind of started like sitting down at the piano and being into it. This promptly killed my love of the piano for about I don't know, maybe two or three years, like I I did two or three. My sister, like ever the academic and and well studied, she killed it, and so she kept doing it for maybe a year or so and then but I was I was out. So that was like first grade. And then in the fourth grade is when I started when I found my way to the piano on my own and started writing songs. A friend's dad taught me how to play like a chord on the piano, and I was like it unlocked everything. I was like, oh my god, like, and so I started writing songs for like a year and then weirdly, and I don't I still to this day can't figure out the why and how like, but I kind of hit a road. I hit road a roadblock. I couldn't write any more songs with the one chord that I had been taught and with like just the experimenting I was doing. And so I asked my parents if they would get me piano lessons when I was in fifth grades as I lived in Columbus. I actually, you guys, you guys grew up in Ohio. Yeah, this is the year I moved to Columbus. And so they got me piano lessons at Capital University in in Columbus. And it was with this German woman named Beatrice is Ringenhausen, And I mean I I studied with her for three years and she hated me for every single minute of every I mean that's my perception of it. You know, Like, I don't even remember nobody asked me to go. My parents didn't care if I got if I took piano lessons I asked them for Yeah. Yeah, But I think I knew I had to. Like I I just even like what I was ten or eleven, I was just like, yeah, I knew I had to do it, but I hate but I hated it. I mean I hate. Yeah, it sounds like your teacher probably this to you. The thing that I find to be the most annoying, found to be the most annoying as a kid about piano teachers is the level of guilt that they lay on you if you didn't practice in between lessons. And you're like, listen, lady, I've got a lot going on. I'm a kid. I have to play with my friends. I have maybe a little bit of homework because I'm not old enough to have like a lot of homework, but I do have a little bit of homework, and I have to watch TV. And like, I need you to understand that practicing piano every day, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's like going to the dentist as a kid. Yeah, and it's like the level of they'd be like, you know, you should be practicing for like an hour a day or something and like in your dreams Now I will say, I will say I have friends who did do that. Specifically, I want to give a shout out to Sasha Ross. To Sasha Ross and Steph Rue, who their senior project was like composing a beautiful piano like piece that that was like their whole two month thing was like coming up with this whole thing and they they practiced. They were both so good at Oh no, wait, I'm sorry. Steph was playing o boat, Sasha was paying piano. But anyways, they like practiced this whole thing and they were so into practicing their instruments every day where it's just like I don't know, I didn't have it and I and I was especially this one teacher I had who her foyer was like full of everything was owls. It was like owl It was like owl decorations everywhere and every just so much owl stuff in a way that you were like something's going on here. But I remember co enter her basement and she would just give me so much shit about not practicing, and it just I just I don't know anyway. Sorry, I've gone on a ranch. But that is to me the worst part. I don't know if you'd even know this. I took piano lessons at our high school as an adult um, like like in my twenties, like when I was in college or something. I like, I was taking music theory and I was terrible at it, and they let me borrow an upright base for a summer. This was like I was full on like in my twenties, like went back to like the middle school or something. In this movie, it sounds like a recurring nightmare. And I went back and took lessons for like I was home for a summer. I don't know why. And did you see teachers that you recognize? No, it was like after school and I would just go in there and I would get I took took um and it was that Pepper Pike or did you have the mustache at the time though, That's what I want to know, because I didn't sadly did not have the mustache. And I have a vague memory, but yeah, they gave me an upright base for a summer, I took private lessons and then I turned it at the end of the summer, and then I took some kind of piano lesson because I was like learning more about I was saying classical guitar and stuff, and I wanted to learn. And I like, I don't know how it happened, but I remember being like in our school as like an adult, being like in our elementary school. It was fifth through seventh grade. I think that school. Yeah, yeah, but it must have been so strange. Jonah, Yeah, it was a weird feeling. It was a weird film. But I remember kind of remember taking as a kid, maybe at the school too. I think we also took it at the school, maybe a different school, but in the same school system. But yeah, but yeah, I don't think I really like practicing that much either. And Andrew, it sounds like, you know, it worked for you because you were kind of writing your own material, not just like playing like when the Saints go marching it over and over. Yes, So like I I always like, I I always played. I mean I played from the time I got home from school until the time I went to bed every day. But yeah, I mean, like that was all I did you know was played piano and write songs from the time I was not until you know, you know till now. But I couldn't convince myself still to practice this material most of the time. And so like I was a classic, Like I would go in and I'd ask her to play it for me, and then I'd try and memorize how she played it, and like that was that was That was how I did most of my schooling with the teacher, was like I would just study your hands and try and memorize how she played these pieces. And and then I also started, you know, like when she started putting me in recitals, I kind of insisted that I would be allowed to learn you know, like a modern pieces is something that I wanted to learn, you know, because she just wanted to teach me classical music. And I wrote about this in the book I put out. But like there was a recital where I think I had to learn the minuet and g but that I made her teach me November Rain, Like oh my god, Like I played all of November Rain at the recital, you know what I mean, Like I think this song is like eight minutes, you know. It was just like don't, don't. And I'm just like in my mind, I'm Axel Rose with the bandana, you know, like there's maybe twenty people spread out through like some like you know, mid level college conservatory, and I'm just like, dude, I probably was singing this song under my breath too. Oh my god, that's so great. Well, I remember to like, did you ever get I remember getting a music book of like piano songs that had really cool like I just that's all I wanted was to get the piano book that had cool songs. And I remember I got a book that had it had like a lot of C and C music Factory and songs like um, I'm trying to think of like the biggest See and See music Factory. It would uh get up on the dance floor or yeah oh yeah, yeah, Like there was really big see and See music Factory songs and just like songs that like when you play them on a piano, something gets like a little lost translation, especially if you're like a ten year old kid and your skills are not as you know, right. Well, I took I took guitar lessons, you know, and I did that every week, and my teacher would transcribe it and I actually have this we use put on the rough our Villa episode of this. Elson changed facelift tab book from when I was a kid and we talked about tab books. But yeah, Andrew did they because it's like now kids have it so easy, right, Like they can watch on YouTube someone playing it. They can look up to tabs for free. You had to save up all this money to buy these tabs that were like usually wrong, and it's like it's so much easier to learn how to do stuff now in general. Totally. Yeah. I mean I I remember like going and buying sheet music for like you know, River of Dreams by Billy Joel and like you know what I mean, like this stuff that I was like like getting into as a kid. I was like, oh man, I can get the sheet music, know, but yeah, that's how cool I was, you guys, just me hanging out at home with my River of Dreams. Um. But yeah, I mean, but my teacher never left. I mean other than like once every recital I could learn one piece. Otherwise it was just like you know, it was all classical, which now of course I would super appreciate like learning that, like my daughter's taking piano lessons now, and I I swear to god I had PTSD at her lesson yesterday because they she pulled out a theory book that I swear to god I had when I was like a little older than she was, and I was just like, oh my god, Oh my god, this is like kind of triggering me, you know, like yeah, we jonah, you know, we were able to our moms signed us up with someone and then we went to Pepper Pike or somewhere to take our lessons, our very first one when we were little, and we had this young guy that our mom thought was really cool and really smart, and he let us skip theory. We never to theory. Yeah, And then I started taking it ear in life and I had no idea what I was doing, and I wish I had learned it well. Like my best teacher was my high school. Like he was like the high school choir director, you know, and like we had like a little performing arts school which I was in for a minute, but it was really just this this music teacher that I really dug and I ended up he like he liked me and he knew I was gonna He could just tell I actually cared we're probably half the kids he taught were just like, you know, he was kind of a trolley sort of dude. And so my sister, for my I think was my whole sophomore year, she had to drive me to school and she had a zero period class and I didn't have one. So I actually just audited his music theory class. I didn't. I never I never actually attended because I was horrible with homework. I hated it. But he he gave me my music theory class and my sophomore year of high school, like a bunch of this stuff that I that I just tried not to learn. This like high school teacher just like took me under his wing. He's like, you don't have to do any of the tests, you don't have just just come hang out and I'll teach you all this stuff. Well, teach our Can I ask you if you had to explain to our more our audience than us, but in a kind of brief way, what you learn in music theory, if you had to give us a quick lesson, what would that? Dude? I mean, it's been so it's been so long since I've actually done it that I probably wouldn't describe it well, but I think it's you know, outside of just the actual learning the performance of the instrument, right, It's just it's just understanding understanding the threads of what's what is actually what you're learning about, right, you know, the way that the way that keys and and and things interact with each other, and the relationship between majors and miners and sort of you know, the broad strokes that you don't even necessarily need to play an instrument to understand. I mean there are things like circle of fifths and all these you know, these these topics that I couldn't even I couldn't even teach myself at this point, you know. But it's just it's just how to understand music in the way that that you know, the way that it's sort of apps out, you know, in in the world. Yeah, Andrew was a big for you this year when it went Dreams Theater won a Grammy huge. I mean, I reached out on Twitter a couple of days ago everyone who didn't un follow me after the Turkey Sandwich they might have seen this, and I said, you know, do people still take piano lessons? And I got some replies, and it seems like some do but the consensus is it's not a thing like it was when we were kids, Like it's kid yeah, like some people said they do or like um, but but they said, there's just so many other types of lessons now and so many more things available that I think piano and it being expensive and hard to move, like, it's just not I feel like it's not the same as it was when we were kids. It's it's just different. I mean, I I believe that. But I will say, like my my daughter and like all her friends, they all go to well not all of them, but a big bunch of them all go to this same piano teacher, Miss Juliet, and like they love her and she's great, Like you know, I I go with her. Now. It's kind of a fun thing for me because all this stuff I didn't want to learn when I was her age, Like this teacher is doing a really good job of teaching her. And I'm kind of taking piano lessons all over again with Miss Juliet, you know, because I have to go learn Cecilia's pieces now. And there have been like these things where I'm like find myself on my phone, like looking up the most elementary like site reading things because I'm just like, oh my god, I don't even remember how to do any of this. But she's got like a little crew of friends who are taking piano lessons. But again they're like they're like eight nine years old, so you know, maybe it gets a little you know, maybe that drops off at some point. Well I wonder too if there's also like something in the opposite way that now there's all this Internet stuff, like you could you couldn't write a song on a piano or do something, and you could put yourself you can show it off in a different way than like the only time you're playing is like in your teacher's house or whatever, you know, like you can kind of I don't exactly know what I'm saying, but what I'm saying there's more like young internet sensations and as as a person who I'm coming from the p o V of someone who's always loved attention and like being a performer, like you could be like I want to play piano. Like there's all these you know, young people playing piano and then putting a video of themselves playing piano online and then they they're you know, justin Bieber as you as you say that. As you say this, I'm thinking to myself, like, of all of the horrifying content that I would have created as a child, if if, if if I were born literally like fifteen years later, like it would be there would just be so many pictures of a very heavy young Andrew humiliating himself on the internet. If that was, if that was accessible to me at the time, you know, oh my gosh, you'd be like, oh, I really like to spend something in corporate did you see this thing? Or playing November Range? I mean, and I would have I would have been wearing the bandanna, like, I mean, the scene would have been. It would have been ugly to say the league. Yeah, So Andrew, what age did you stop? Do you think you stopped taking lessons? Obviously once he started the band you're touring, Like, did you at what point where you were like, I think I got this well, so I stopped. I mean I stopped taking formal lessons like when I was about I don't know, maybe twelve, like I took. I took about three issue years of classical and then once I got back into high school, that teacher, Mr Woods, he sort of was my de facto music teacher. It wasn't like there was nothing. We didn't have a formal arrangement. But he was the first guy. I think we talked about this probably on their last or last talk years ago. He was the he was the guy who taught me what a fake book was and and and how to read charts and um, really sort of prepped me for it's it's it's a standards yeah, so like you'll get you'll get books that. Yeah. And and instead of like the proper sheet music, which you will have some of that, but it will also have like just the cord progression and the melody on the right hand, so that you could fake your way through it, you know. Um. And so he he taught me all that stuff, and he he gave me a pretty good background in theory. And by the time I was I mean by the time I was at a high school, you know, I didn't really take any formal lessons. I I sat with like I had like a really cool, like one off lesson with Bowie's piano player, which was really cool. I've done, like you know, and I and you know, a handful of like really great piano players that I've been lucky enough to be on tour with you know Ben Um from Jukebox the Ghost. I like, you know, he he would he would show me a thing or two when we were on tour together. Um, but you know, I'm mostly self taught and not very proud in that sense either, you know. I I've always like joked that it was it was a equal to writing songs for me more than it was like an expression of like me trying to you know, be I've never really been trying to be the best piano player. It's more like I've been trying to pass while I while I use it to write the best songs I can, if that makes sense. Have you reconnected at all with this piano teacher that let you audit his class and stuff. I mean I had, I had he since passed but but but uh, you know he brought me in years ago back to my high school to do and to do a talk for for his students, and so yeah, yeah, so we we did keep in touch for a time. Um, but yeah, he it was I got probably not three or four years ago that he passed away. But he must have been so proud of you that he was able to bring you like that. He saw you have such success that must have been so gratifying for him. I mean, I I hope so, you know, he was the thing I loved about the dude the most was just that he was He was hysterical, like kind of truly mean to to to a certain group of students. And and then otherwise you would get this like very warm like he really cared, you know, because he if you if you were if you were somebody who really loved music, he was like, Okay, I'll shine my light in this direction, you know, and and uh and yeah, and I even you know, I even went back to him when I was on tour after I don't know, maybe two or three years on tour or something corporate to just check out. I was like to just check out my voice and make sure I was singing all right, you know what I mean, because I was like worry, like, am I gonna you know, I want to make sure I never had formal voice lessons, you know, And he was, you know, he was the choir teacher. And I went back and I kind of sang for him. He's like, yeah, you're fine, don't worry about it. He's like, I, I you're you're doing good. And I think that in and of itself was like the the actual Like, you know, I relaxed at that point because I was so stressed out. I was going to like kill my voice because I had seen so many people do it on tour. And then as soon as he told me that, I was like, Oh, I guess I can stay up all night and you know, party and still and still do my show at the end of the day. It's like, it's gonna be fine. It's a good thing to learn about yourself, Isn't it just just just what every high school teacher wants to teach one of their one of their students. Oh, why did he come here? He's just hoping he can stay up later than he usually does. Well, we're going to take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back with Andrew and more absolutely more fun. And we're back. So Andrew, we're gonna play a quick game with you. I don't even know where to start with this one. We have a very very popular segment a show called CEO Take Popular CEO Takedown, and so it's it's all about taking down ceo s or putting profits before people. And we thought, you know, since you know you're from Something Something corporate. We thought we'd do kind of a special edition, the CEO Take Down Something Corporate Edition, UM, where you give three examples of corporate behavior here to see which one of these companies puts profits before people the most. Which is not an easy task. This is terrifying. I hate. I mean, the game's scared me so much. I'm not that witty, but I'm gonna really truys very very low stakes. Okay, it sounds good. Basically, we're gonna read these three articles and say which which corporation you know is the worst? Um, I can kick us off because I've done all the research for this, sin spent way too much time on it. Andrew, are you familiar with the controversy happening right now between okay Go and Post Foods over their instant cereal cups? Absolutely not. You're busy having like a full life the band okay Go. Yeah, so, um, this is kind of a long story, but let me think of the convoluted So Post Foods they started these selling these instant cereal cups and they're calling them okay Go, And according to Billboard, the band was threatening to sue Post Foods, and so the company Post went to try to get a declaratory ruling saying they haven't done anything wrong, you know, saying that their application was applied in two So basically okay Go said, in this statement of billboard, a big corporation shows to steal the name of our band to market disposable plastic cups of sugar to children. That was an unwelcome surprise, to say the least. But then they suit us about it, presumably the ideas they can just bully us out of our own names since they have so much more power to spend on lawyers. I guess that's often how it works, but hopefully we'll be the exception. And according to the lawsuit, okay gets lawyers and a Seesa desist to Post Foods, saying the name would be sort of confusing, you know. As you know, okay Go has worked with Sony, all these big companies, and this is this is one of the wildest partsors I didn't realize okay Go collaborated with Post Foods on some promo videos for honey Bunches of Oats in two thousand eleven. WHOA and the lawyer of course from Post reading you know, it was like it's been so long. That was over a decade ago. There weren't not a lot of people watched that ad, and so yeah, basically Post is kind of trying to create to belie sue okay Go, so they don't go after them over the name. I mean, Andrew, let me ask you this. You're walking down the grocery store, you see his instant. If you see okay Go on a product, would you think the band would be in some way affiliated? Whether I think the band would be affiliated or not, I definitely think they have every right to go after those guys. I mean, yeah, there's no question. I mean it would take anybody two seconds to type okay Go into their computer, which no question Post Foods did before they name this product, and they made a decision without question to be like that band's not big enough to cause a problem for us. Like there's no there's no way that any major company doesn't type the name of a product in before they decide to slap a label on it. And there's no way that somebody didn't see it and make the choice. So I say, down with those guys, although you're gonna give me two other options. So I'm this was gonna be tough to beat. The I agree. I mean to me that the most wild part is post is preamptively suing okay Go for was like for having the name, for having the name, they stragging the name. They still they tried to settle with okay Go as as a good faith effort for a brand quote branding collaboration, co marketing arrangement, but the band rejected the offer without providing a counter proposal and made a clear thet of potential litigation. So I think Post thought, Oh, we'll throw them a couple hundred grand, they'll take it, We'll sell our fruity pebbles. Nope, okay Go not taking it. And this adamlessly gives me a lot of respect for okay Go. I think it's a really really cool move. And those guys have always been so creative and so interesting and like all their their videos or next level like yeah, I'm I'm I'm rooting for those dudes. Take them down, absolutely, what are your things? You can't a band's name, especially when it's an established band like okay Go, like that's what they have, Like they don't they can't just change their name. It's it would be so confusing for all of their fans and everyone will then plug anything else into that, right, like like like call your your your serial is called led Zeppelin, right you know yeah, you know, yeah, yeah totally. And and as someone who on my show, like we had lawyers and and I'm sure not as many lawyers as Post as Post does, but Showtime has lawyers that would find stuff for us, Like we couldn't use someone's like first and last name if the person existed, and we were like portraying like if if that name existed, and that you know what I mean. Like there were so many products and things that we were flagged for us. There's absolutely no way Post doesn't have a billion lawyers as as you can see by the way that they're countersuing or whatever, like they obviously have a huge I think Andrew's right, they underestimated the band. They thought they underestimated the Band's a corporate mistake. Classic corporate mistake. It's just like rename your product, get over yes product, right, I don't go, oh, okay, go that makes me feel like I gotta buy that that sounds delicious. Well what it is if you look at it, it's just a little bowl of fruity pebbles with like you add cold water and it makes it into milk. It's like it's it's just fruity pebbles. It's just like okay, go is like the packaging. Yeah, yeah, it's I gotta I gotta side with. I mean, I feel like this is a very egregious one, knowing that we have two others and a couple of people sent this to me. You know, I feel like people are seeing this and they're thinking of this podcast. So that's really that's big. You have to get into the next one. Sure, so the next The next one was recently made into a documentary, I believe by Netflix, and it's based on this thing that happened where Pepsi put out an ad that you could get if you got I think it was a hundred thousand or some some crazy number of Pepsi points from buying uh, from buying Pepsi products, you would win this big fighter Harrier jet for seven million points, a Harrier jet for seven million points. And basically they didn't think anyone would get the seven million points and that anyone would really like want a Harrier jet. But there's this whole documentary about how they like did this whole It was this huge ad campaign and they like wanted to show kind of like a kid flying this jet and make it be this whole thing where like every kid and every adult felt like that could be me. And then they buy a lot of Pepsi products and then they would never get that many points, but they would get enough points for this let's call it what it is, scamed to work. So somebody did it. Somebody did it. They got all the points, and then they asked for the jet, and basically it became this whole law not unlike this post situation, like if they tried to counter sue, it became this drawn out legal thing where they well obviously joke and that people were like, well it says here this is and that the documentary is actually really interesting. We don't want to spoil it from it hasn't seen it, but it's kind of similar to this story. A company kind of making a problem with doing a promotion and then when someone actually steps up and does it, all of a sudden, they change the rules. I bring in the lawyers. Yeah yeah, And what are your thoughts that were familiar with this? The document is called Pepsi Where's My Jet? Yeah? So I think I started this documentary while drinking a cocktail and maybe passed out. So for me, this sort of like if I saw the ad for the Harrier Jet when the pepsi, I think there's like a there's a there's a moment where I sort of you have to step off and say, like, do you really want to buy that much pepsi anyway? You know, like and do you really believe it? I don't know. I mean, I think it's dumb, and I hate to say I think that anybody who actually aspired to the Harrier Jet and purchased the thing, I'm like, I'm sort I have like a ghetto life kind of well, I think I don't know if this will change. I don't know if this will change your opinion. I don't want to give too much away, but I do believe they figured out a way. We're in the fine print, you could buy pepsi points or something. So they actually didn't end up buying all this pepsi. They were like, here's a check for like two million dollars, way less than a Harrier Yeah, yeah, yeah, I Harrier jen is worth like twenty million. We here, you know, I could buy seven million points for yet like like eight thousand dollars, here's the check where it's a jet. Basically, Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I admire, I admire whoever decided to lean into this, and I'm really curious how this, how this plays out, So I might watch this, watching it maybe one night. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still more annoyed about the okay go on. Yeah, the okay go one really feels I think. I definitely think PEPSI isn't the wrong here, and I totally of course, but I hear, but I hear what you're saying. But the okay go one, it wasn't even They weren't even trying to enter into anything. Initially, they were just living their lives as okay go and Post was like infringing on them, like that's well the hair and the Harrier jet folks like on the other side, they were kind of like, I mean, I could be wrong, but it seems like they were looking for a fight. They probably knew that nobody was planning on delivering anybody a Harrier jet, but they were like, Okay, maybe I'm gonna just try and push this because it seems like the legally's is gonna is gonna play out my favor. So it's kind of like two dueling and somewhat intelligent factions trying to figure each other out. Whereas the okay, they're just getting they're just getting robbed of their of their natural property. In my mind, no, I think that's accurate. The last one, Uh, this is a and W puts pants on its quote unquote polarizing bear mascot and jokes statement made at Eminem's expense. So, you know, just I know, this is a lot. It was a big headline. This is Como news, so you know, just to give a little backstory, you know, there's Eminem's made this announcement they were replacing a spokes candy, Eminem the rapper. We're talking about the candy. So they recently, um, you know, made a statement they were going to replace their spokes candies for being polarizing. Um and so you know, because they don't have pants on their polarizing. Because they don't have pants, why are they plar I think it has to do with like conservatives like saying like they're like to to woke or something. I don't I don't know, I don't want I don't watch enough of this the ship that people care about is so short of shocking to be it has to do something to do with Tucker. Carlson is offended by the eminem's I don't know the full story that that's not even what this story is about. This this story is kind of a response to that, so that that's gotten a lot of attention. Um. And then as soon as this happens, A and W jumps in and uh the root Beer company company, they were least a statement like in the same font and stuff saying that, um, yeah, that Rudy the Great root the Great root Beer, which is like a bear in an A and W sweater. He's they're saying, his lack of pants can be polarizing. Therefore, we've decided Rudy where jeans going forward, not to where he will remain our official spokes bear. After all, he is unbearably cute and impossible to replace. So basically they kind of like tried to jump on this eminem attention by being like, look, we have a mascot to like trying to kind of get attention drum for A and W, which, like, let's face it, no one cares about A and W. Um, so be my best friend Adam really likes Okay, well I like it, but I like root beer. I'm not like and you know, to be honest, if you look at the ingredients and W probably is an even root bear. I mean it's probably like it's probably like flavored. Like now, now, who's going to get taken? You guys are I think you know, from a root beer plan. But I think if you got like, uh, like from like are like one of these higher and root beers, like, I think it would be more legit than like an A and W in my opinion, I don't know, maybe even an IBC. Yes, sure, Sue City Sasparilla. Yes. It also seems like it also seems like they you know, eminem's have these iconic eminem's that are were there spokespeople and my Roodolf spokes candy and now my rootolfh is the spokesperson. And so that's like a shift that they made because they were getting some kind of you know, criticism and whatever. And I don't know, I'm not super knowledgeable about how long this has been going on or what. Mainly, Tucker Across the biggest issue is with this. But but they they made this announcement about how they were switching that they have a new spokesperson and they still love this Oaks candies and and but this it's like what they're doing now. And then as Jonah said, A and W released this thing about how their spokes animal, this bear was now going to be like dressing differently, and they were kind of trying to do a satire of what Eminem's was doing. But nobody knows what they're spoke like, nobody knows about this bear. It's not like the bear is nearly as popular as the Eminem's candies, so it's candy like Spokes candies. So it's just sort of like jumping up this thing. I get that they're trying to be funny, but it doesn't work because nobody knew about the bear before, so you can't. It's yeah, Andrew, what are your thoughts on this one? I got a feeling and I've had the visceral reaction you did, okay, the first started the first one. Really, of course, I think I feel more sad for it. Yeah, I mean I would like, I mean, is it greed? I don't think so, as much as it's just like, oh man, we really wish our product anybody cared about it at all. Yeah, you know what it's like. It's like, to give an analogy, it's like a little kid going to a professional baseball game and bringing his mid and thinking he's gonna play right field. It's like yeah, yeah, like like I and I wonder, you know, do you think that it's like when you were a kid. I don't know if I thought that, but it's like it's like, oh, you're gonna go and then the big leagues. Now you're gonna take a seat in the last row, like you're not quite here yet for I mean, I think still the first one feels the most, uh, the most egregious to me from the from the corporate standpoint, It's like there's a real like this is like of all of them, that is the sort of douche eyst like aggressive, aggressive sort of move. I think of anybody, you know, the pet see one, I think in their minds they're like nobody's gonna go for nobody thinks they're going to get a Harrier jet right. Just stupid in that case, right, I think. And then in this last one, I mean, I just yeah, I just kind of feel bad. I I almost kind of want to get a n W bear like shirt and wear it, you know, and just be like yo, like he's here, like we we love this baby, you know, like I want to give him like a hug. Yeah, he's seeking, he's desperately seeking attention. And just because his name is Rudy the Great root Beer, which is like it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. And also just to say, like I don't think when I go to a grocery store, I guess, or a or a convenience store and I'm getting root beer, I guess I kind of buy whichever one is there. There usually isn't a ton of maybe I'm not going to the to the right stores, but there aren't like a ton of choices. If A and W is there to barks or A and W you're not really feeling yea, although honestly barks right, but like I just feel like it's it's not to me. Root beer is such a kind of niche thing. It sort of speaks for itself. It's not well, well, it's also like this is just a big thing. And not to get too off in a tangent or wrapping up, but this is a thing corporations do now. I noticed, especially on social media, like Dunkin Donuts will post something and then like Stay from Insurance will chime in with like trying to make a joke about it, and it's just like so gross because it's like it's it's really sad all these people are working for corporations like trying to jump out like oh, like Duncan Donuts is a big following, like you know, and it's just like it's never really funny. It's always like just like feels just and you get this kind of rudy feeling that Andrew's talking about where you're like, oh man, this is this is rough stuff. Well you feel like you can see the room that they're in. Yeah, you feel like you can see all they're like, I've got a great idea, you know, like and they like hired like a young kid who's like pitching like what they think are funny ideas, and then it probably get it gets like washed through a bunch of different suits before it ends up acting acting like they're our friends social media and they're just they're just there to have fun with us when they're really these like billionaires. Yeah yeah, now I want to I do want to. Our producer Olivia did give us some clarity on the Eminem's controversy, which is that Mars was criticized for the Green eminem sexy characterization. When the characters were redesigned, Green not only got new shoes, but she and the brown Eminem also became friendlier towards each other, showcasing a force supporting women. Eminem's changes were criticized and gained widespread attention, with Tucker Carlson ridiculing the changes and TikTok users criticizing the company for feeling it needed to step to strip the character of her sexuality. So it's like, what's up, Like I'd see the note, It just says everyone was angry. Yeah, so all sides kind of weighing in on this thing. I guess. I guess the point is A and W found this as an opportunity to jump on board and kind of maybe try and stir up some of their own controversy. In case anyone's paying attention talked about anywhere. Can I admit something really sad to you guys, that that that occurred to me later in this conversation as you were talking about Rudy the root beer. Yeah, that it really didn't occur to me until just now that it was Rudy the Root Bear. Oh yeah, b e A R yeah, you know, uh honestly coming to me for the first time as well. And I'm assuming this is the case. But like I'm I'm I'm a fan. Now I'm gonna look him up and I'm going to buy a T shirt of Rudy the Root Bear. I I think this is well Andrew. I back him. He this is my favorite company of all of them A and W. I think I think this is the winner here. And we well know, well the winner is that's that's the winner in terms of likability, but the winner of this contest. You know, forgive me John if I'm wrong, because this is absolutely your game. But I feel like the decision we have to make is um is which one of these companies puts profits before people the most? And so Andrew's going with Post Foods. Okay, go Vanessa. What's your call? Same? Same Post Foods. Okay. I'm gonna go same here. And I just want to say to Andrew, I think your attitude towards Rudy is very uh really positive and really like a nice way to spin it. And I think you know, you know, I'm a big fan of the underdog. That's always been my thing. It's a bear in this game, Yeah, the underbear. Yeah, I think I think it's a I think that's a nice way to think of it. I think, like I said, it's like that little kid at the baseball game, and like you wish him the best, but he's just he's just not there yet. But but why not give him a little encouraged Why give them a little encouragement. And I'm sure your friend Adam would appreciate that to Andrew totally. And I'll say, while we're kind of supporting A and W, I also want to say the A and W root beer barrels that candy. I believe those are by A and W. If you those are delicious candies, Yeah, really good candy. You guys think there's a chance that maybe and We's going to sign up as one of the sponsors of the show after they hear this, I feel like it's possible. I think only if they listened all the way to the end, he should definitely package This wasn't like a clear we weren't kind of supporting them the whole way. I think we really only came around, Andrew, what what do you kind of reframed it for us? And now I think we're on But yeah, we needed we needed your reframing, So thank you for that, and I'm sure and be appreciate it as well, as long as they weren't placating Tucker Carlson. I'm pretty I feel okay, but we can leave it at that fair enough. Well, Andrew, where can people find you? We mentioned you have a new record coming out March thirty one, you have, you have your book Three Pianos. Where can people find out more information about you and sort of all your projects? Uh? Yeah, I mean that's a really great question. I shouldn't know the answer, but yeah, you're already you're already learning about my my presence on social media through this conference and social media. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure I have a website that's like maybe my name dot com um, and I'm on Instagram at a M and the Wilderness, which is a really easy handle. I'm sure I follow. I'm like really just trying to hide in plain sight if it's at all possible. But yeah, if you just look my name up, I'm sure you can figure out what I'm up to great, amazing. Well, that was really fun. Thanks so much to Andrew for joining us and to everyone for listening. If you enjoyed that, please subscribe to the podcast. Keep an eye up for next week's episode of How Did We Get Weird, when we will discuss more stories from our childhood and cultural touchstones like taking piano lessons as a kid. Yeah, thanks Andrew, Thank you guys. Thanks Andrew,