Hi. I'm Vanessa Beyer and this is my brother Jonah. We're too siblings, so love to talk about our childhood and nostalgia and how it shaped us into the people we are today. We're very nice, if I do say so myself. Welcome to how did We Get Weird? So, Jonah, did you want to talk today a little bit about using this podcast to have people on that we want to be friends with. Yeah. One of the cool things about having a podcast is you can ask people to come on who you secretly really want to be friends with. I hope this isn't too embarrassing for our guests today, but I'm just such a huge fan of his work, his music, just as an artist, and so I was like, oh, we should ask this person. Being the podcast, they probably won't want to do it, but we should just ask, And then it worked out. It can be a good medium to sort of get to know people but also secretly try to make friends. Does that have you ever done that? Vanessa? Oh? All the time. I mean I feel like when we did our web series Sound Advice, we would have people on. It actually worked with Jenny Lewis. I got to become friends with her. When people used to be guests on SNL A lot of times. The women that would come on that I felt like were sort of like I could see myself in them, but they were just like a lot more together and cool than me. I would hard try and become best friends with them. I'll give examples Scarlett Johansson, Anne Hathaway, Emma Stone. I would just like really be like, I gott to become best friends with this person is the last thing ACTO. So totally get it and excited that maybe this will potentially happen today. Should we introduce our guests who you not to make things awkward, want to become best friends of it? Yeah, it's always good if you want to become friends with someone to start out talking yeah about how you want to be friends with them. Yeah, that's always a cool move. Our guest today, Song Ray, musician who started on the Dryback Truckers Now It was a very successful solo artist. His latest album with his band, The four hundred Unit Weather Vanes comes out on June ninth. Let's give it up for Jason Isabel Hey, Jason, Hey there, I'm a little offended at you guys are lying and telling people we didn't grow up together. But I guess it works better for a podcast to try to act like we're just going to act like yeah, yeah, well because we got rid of our accents, even though we grew up the same part of town. It's a hell of a way to get out of the money that you guys told me. It's just a pretend we've never met. But yeah, we don't know this guy, but I really want to get to know him. Yeah, we want to be his friend. We don't owe him money exactly, exactly, don't own any money. It's very good to meet you both. Thank you for having me. I would like to be your friend. I think we could pull it off. Thank you. Jason so nice. Yeah, let's just get it out of the way. Let's just get yeah, so we can enjoy it. It's supposed to be a loose conversation. Yeah, podcast, they told me. Yeah, I prepped Jason let him now. Yeah, we've tried to be friends with cool people before, as we were talking about. But also, you know, we talk a lot on here about how our cousin kind of through marriage is Ricky Rackman, who used to be the host of Headbanger's Ball, and we text him a lot, like we really want to be best friends with him, and he usually responds, but he's like, it doesn't seem like he's as excited about being friends with us as we are with him. I mean, we're relatives, so it's like kind of like we're bonded forever anyway. So we'll kind of like test that on you. Maybe we're we'll sort of like send you a text and kind of see you know what. Oh, I'm sorry to do this, but I have two brief stories that I have to tell you, but let's hear it. The first one, we were playing the ross Kilda Festival in Denmark years ago and my sound guy and I we're standing right outside the entrance to the backstage area and we are friends. I love my sound engineer, Cane. He's been with me for over a decade. He drove the van, he's been there this whole time. And we're standing there talking about life. And Phil Anselmo from Pantara is in the area and he's in the little dressing room area with everyone, and it's two o'clock in the afternoon and he's crying and at first you think, yeah, something's wrong, but no, it's just Phil and Selmo is crying because he's just very fucked up and he's Philanselmo. And so he's in front of everybody and he's holding a potted plant and he's carrying the potted plant around and he's crying and he's talking to the potted plant. And finally his handlers explain to him that he has to go on stage and go play. And this is middle of the day, broad daylight, and phil Enselmo walks past me and my sound guy Cane, and he looks at us, and the only thing he says to us, which is the only thing he's ever said to us, is quit being Friance. And then he sets his potted plant now and he gets in the van and he goes and he plays his Philanselmo show. Well point there is true metal heads don't have friends that is antithetical to the real metal ethos. So maybe your cousin is a real metal head. And he's like, no, it's not part of the deal. Yeah, I had another one too, but I don't remember it. Maybe it'll come back, but yeah, phil and Selmo said quit being France, and he said it in phil Anselmo voice, like quit being friance, which is like the most metal thing he could possibly say ever to Yeah, my friends to a podcast and they described his voice as high school bully voice, and I think, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cartoonish. It is cartoonish. Yes, wow, that's a lot. Yeah, Jason, were you into metal as like a kid at all, because I get the sense sort of you're not in that scene now obviously, but I get the sense that you were maybe influenced by some of that when you were younger. I don't know's that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just as a guitar nerd, you know. But I like to speed metal, not very aggressive men. I liked like Racer X and Jason Becker and stuff, you know, yeah, really fast, really technical, not really about beating people up or anything, just more about like classical style metal. Now. I like Annihilator. I like the great Canadian thrash bands. It's very Canadian, so they're like too polite to be like, They're like, we have to really sing, guys if we're going to be in a band. So it's very fast and very intense, but it's also palatable. Yeah, got it, got it, got it. Sometimes I find like and just from talking to you right now, then from knowing Jonas since we were little, it sounds like a lot of people who are into metal and play metal or play any kind of music that's I don't mean this as an insult to either of you, okay, aggressive in any way, are actually oftentimes sweeties. It's so awesome. Yeah, I love it. It's so great because it's like, and I was talking to someone about it's like you were able to get any kind of emotional stuff. I don't know if this is why I'm asking. I guess it's because you're able to get that stuff out through the music. But it's so great. How that's just like kind of a bunch of sweeties. Yeah, I think you're right. True metal heads are super sweethearts. Like have you ever heard Kurt Hammett talk and you're like, yeah, oh my god, it's just like, oh, hey, how are you? I know, it's it's so sweet. Yeah, it's kind I know. Jason. Do you see that Some kind of Monster the documentary? Yeah? Yeah, that was a good one that was in Chance. Yeah. I actually had a meeting with Phil told the therapist in that because I went to school got a master shot in Clinton mental health counseling. I work in community mental health now and I want to work with bands eventually. And he was very nice. What a job, What a difficult gig that guy had, Yeah, wrangling all those cats. You know. Yeah, we're actually we're really good friends with Jason news Did. He likes our kind of music and got to be really good buddies with their bass player and gave him one of his Metallica basses and comes to all of our shows in Florida. And Jason Newstead paints these beautiful paintings now and has our shows and stuff. Yeah, he sings like Americana music and coffee shops and paints beautiful artworks. And he's a big sweetie. That's incredible. But he's still pretty metal though. Like it's funny because like if you go to dinner with him, like he'll get his plate and he'll be like this the most fucking awesome steak I've ever seen in my wife. You know, he's like really good, impressed, and he takes he has to take a minute to be like, sorry, guys, I just kind of got metal, you know. I started I started watching some kind of monster. I haven't finished it, but I was really kind of on board, Like I was really like, good for these guys for figuring out. But then Jonah and I did this episode of our podcast where we talked about the music video for Unforgiven, and it really kind of turned me on them because I remembered watching it as a kid and absolutely hating it. I don't mean to be disrespectful. I know it seems like you know them, and I don't mean to you know, but you can disrespect metallicaus. This is a safe space. But it really was such a bummer that video, and I just was like, why why we you know, But I also would be interested. There are a lot of logic questions about that guy just staying in that one spaces whole life that I would have. Jonah had some too. Jonah's specific question was how does he eat? Oh that's good. Yeah, and then you have the follow up of course yes, which Jonah was like, well you could do that. You know, you don't need to, you know, but could you? I mean, yeah, it would become an issue, It would become that would become its own health issue. Yeah, you know, I don't remember. I remember that video being dark and creepy, but I don't remember anything else about it really, so I would probably have the same take on it you guys have. Yeah, yeah, all the videos are kind of I mean, we're all I remember the Inner samm One was a lot of throw lights and darkness. Yeah, and then what's so funny is that that seemed like such a sinister song at a time. But James, I feel like doing like kind of a nursery rhyme. Yes, it's a kid doing a nursery rhyme. Like that's not that heavy. I don't know, it's just interesting to think back. See that's the trip. I love that trick because not just like the Metallica version of it, but I think that that's a thing that people have used for decades with rock and roll music. What you do is you make because you know people's parents aren't really paying attention to the lyrics, you make it sound to the parents like it's some satanic shit, but really it's basically just like Christian rock, like like Crazy Train, you know Ozzy Osbourne parents are like, this is from Satan. He's biting the head off of birds and bats and and you listen to it and it's like crazy. That's how it goes millions of people living us foes like let's learn how to love and forget how to hate, you know, and it's just like the most like kindness possible. I think Billie Eilish does that too. I think when your parents are listening to it, they're like, oh my gosh, she's talking about drugs and sex. And then two kids are like, yes, she's she's talking about not doing drugs and not having sex. But the kids don't tell their parents that because then it wouldn't be cool. Right, that's right. I never thought you're totally right, that's totally true. It's a good trick. Yeah, it's a great trick. Yeah. Do you ever use it? Because it seems like with your music a lot of times you are writing from your own perspective but also from like characters, you know, Do you use that trick at all? They kind of like, no, because my fans are the parents. Okay, they're all my age or older, and they all look just exactly like me, and so I have to just be myself at all times. I try to use some other techniques though, Like one thing that sometimes it works is like the allegory thing where you'll write one song about one thing and it's really about a completely different thing. I like to try that from time to time, but that's tough because then people are like, oh, this is a murder ballad, and I'm like, no, it's not. It's about getting sober and right. Yeah, but you don't want to you don't want to be in an interview going no, it's not about that. It's talking about you know, because it's already out there. It's about whatever they think it's about now, yeah, right, right, right, right, Well, I guess we're gonna take her first commercial break, but I'm having the time of my life. You guys, it's because of that cushion. No, and you guys, just so our listeners in ovanus to spilt some water on her carpet before we started, and I have to sit on a pillow, but I always sort of yeah, anyway, I won't give too many details to make this thing really for you. We're gonna take a quick rich we'll be right back. Who Jason is about? And we're back. Jason. I was wondering, you know, I know you grew up in Alabama. This is like we talk about childhood a lot, Like how do you kind of look back on your childhood. I know that's kind of a vague question, but like, what was it like kind of growing up in that area. I guess as an adult having kind of seen, you know, the whole country in this world so many times through touring and that kind of stuff, you know, I had a lot of people around me who loved me. I was very lucky in that way. My parents were very young when I was born, so we were all kind of trying to figure out what to do any sort of crisis. We all sort of just looked at each other and I don't know, what do you think we should do? My mom was seventeen, my dad was nineteen, and we lived in a trailer in my grandmother's yard, and my uncle and his wife lived in a trailer behind her house. My grandmother's house, and we lived right next to her house. And she was a lunch lady. So my earliest memories are waiting on her to come home with the desserts from the high school lunch. That is so fun. That's the first thing I remember, those little drop cookies that are like oatmeal boiled peanut butter cookies. You know, she would bring those home and I remember, like waiting at the door. She drove a red Ford Maverick, and I remember waiting on her to show up with those Oh that is so great that she would bring. Was that the dessert every day or was that No? I think it was like once a week. I think that was my favorite. So that's the one I really remember. And as I got older, she would make them for me at home, you know. And I feel like I got very lucky as far as the family that I grew up with, because we were all very close out of necessity, I later discovered, you know, it was basically like we were all living together in the same place because we needed to do that. But yeah, and you know, instead of like childcare, I would go stay with my grandparents and my granddad would show me how to play musical instruments, and that's how I got started making music. So I was super super lucky in that way. Yeah, But also it was weird. It was very religious and very out of time as far as like my dad's family. They were Pentecostal, so like the women didn't wear makeup, and they like wore long skirts and pants, and you know, it was kind of like a cult in a lot of ways. So you know, there was there were complications, but I was cared for, yeah, you know very much. I had eight living natural grandmothers when I was born, because all of the women in my family had had children in their mid teens and we were all the first of that generation, so you know, just me, my mom, her mom, her mom, and her mom were all alive until I was in my mid twenties. My great great grandmother died when I was like twenty three, twenty four years old. Oh my gosh, Wow, that's so nice that you had so many grandparents, Like, yeah, it was wow, it was awesome. And did they all live near you? Pretty close? Yeah? We were all within half an hour, so I spent a lot of time with a lot of grandmama's. Yeah. Were you exposed to like MTV or any stuff like that as a kid or not so much. Yes. When I was with my parents, yeah, I could watch you know. I mean we were all watching the same stuff and let's say, the same music and everything, you know. But when I was my grandparents was different because my granddad was a Pentecostal preacher, so there were like two things we could watch because they were always so afraid that there was going to be like a F word or a boob or something, and they would like make cassette tapes of all these old like john Ford Westerns and like The Rifleman. I remember watching The Rifleman when I was like five years old, over and over and over Chuck Connors. And one year, when I was maybe like I don't know, ten years old or something, I convinced my grandparents to watch the Grammys. And I was so excited. It took so much work, and I was like, this is not music videos, this is not This is a show where they give awards and people just come up and they say thank you, and they might perform, but nobody's gonna be naked, nobody's gonna be cursing. It's gonna be great. And that was the year Bono said the F word on the grand So the last, the last time I ever got to watch anything at my grandparents house that wasn't like baseball. I got him into baseball because that was the best I could do. I was like, surely we can watch them. Yeah, we watched baseball games together. Wow. It was intense. Yeah, it was intense. They were very old school like they My grandmother cooked on a wood stove and you know, all the clothes hung up on a clothesline, and they had like farm animals and yeah, it was very old school. Well that's interesting with your parents too, because it sounds like what you're saying is like because you were sort of closer in age, like our parents are thirty years older than us, or a little more like you could kind of be into the same stuff sort of. Definitely, Yeah, yeah, definitely, And that has found its way into just the creative person that I am now, because you know, I feel like when I'm at my most successful as a songwriter, I'm making something that adults people my age can take their teenage kids to the show and they can all have a good time. I think that's a direct direct result of me having teenage parents and us sitting around listening to the same music together. Yeah. Wow. And I watched the video the other night of you like a live show at the four hundred Unit where you were talking about the influence that Pearl Jam had on you when it kept to playing a strata and out of a marshal with the store son you brought up Mike McCready, I mean, were you getting into like was grunge was that big for you as a kid, it was huge, Yeah, huge, because I loved playing the guitar. But up until like ninety three, ninety four, you know, I was listening to classic rock records. I was listening to led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones and stuff, and that was not hip. Everybody in school was listening to hair metal bands, and you know, the best we could get was Guns n' Roses. And then all of a sudden one day, everybody was dressing like me, you know, and everybody was listening to loudass guitar music, and it was just like, holy shit, this is the most amazing experience because I was never going to be cool unless the whole you know, ze guys shifted to shirt. Guy in the flannel shirt gets to be cool now, And so that was a nice moment. What were you getting into as far as like, like I saw Soundgarden a super unknown tour like tad Open like those are sentenced and some like deeper cuts like who were kind of your grunge kind of go to bands. I love Pearl John, I like Mother Love Bone, I like Soundgarden, but it was a little too much drop d Yeah for me as a guitar. Everything was drop d you know, like I didn't have a lot of access to left of the dial kind of stuff. You know, everything was mainstream where I was, so, you know, Pearl Jam was everywhere, Nirvana was everywhere. But you know Ten came out before in Utero. People say that Nirvana killed hair metal, but really Ten is what did it. Recently, I was at this stinct my wife's banned. The High Women were playing at Kennedy Center Honors and I was there backing them up. And the next morning I was in the gym working out and Eddie Vetter walks in the gym and it's me and the gospel singer dB Winans and Eddie Vetter and we're the only three people in this hotel gym this morning. It was pretty funny, but I was like, I gotta talk to Eddie Vetter. You know, I'd never met him before, and I know McCready. I've known McCready for a while, but I'm like, I got to talk to Eddie Vetter. So he covers one of my songs and his solo set the song that I wrote for Bradley Cooper's character in A Stars Born. Yeah, and Eddie covers that song it's called Maybe It's Time, and so I had an intro. I was like, you sing, I wrote that song from a stars Born and after that, yeah, we were kind of buzz. You know. Eddie's super super nice guy, and you know, we talked and did all that, and then we met up a couple of times over the next couple of days, and at one point I was like, man, I have to tell you, and I know you know, I tried not to do this, but I gotta do it. Like in the in the nineties, you know, when Tan came out, all of a sudden, it was cool to be who I already was. So I just really appreciate that. And he was like, and you saved money on hairspray and I was like, yes, yes I did. I did. I was not the hairspray type, you know, but yes, that was that was huge. All of a sudden, it was cool to be a rocker. Now were you already I know that obviously the music when ten came out and stuff that was more aligned with like what you liked and stuff, But were you already dressing that way? Were you already sort of in other ways being grunge in that way, like in an authentic way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I was already I was wearing like cargo pants and flannel shirts. It's pretty incredible you said, like the zeit guys and everything caught up to you. I know that that's basically what you said, But how would you note to get plannel shirts? And that's incredible. I was in Alabama and we didn't have any money, so that is you wear a flannel shirt, and I had with me. I like to eat snacks, so you wear cargo pants, you know. And uh, And it was just it was more of the utility of it all than any sort of stylistic choice. You're absolutely right that that clothing actually serves multiple purposes in a utilitarian way. But it's just I don't even think about that with cargo pants. I'm like, they have pockets on them because they look kind of cool, and then it's like, oh, I guess you could put something in there. You need some cargo. Yeah. It's funny too, because, as someone who loves free snacks so much, if I'm at any kind of anything where they have snacks that you could potentially take home with you, I usually have like a bag or something you know, when I'm doing any kind of show or anything. So like, if there's something in my green room, I can just throw it on the back. Never thought about cargo pants. Then you just take it right on your person. Yeah, exactly all in there. Think about an old old man who've been wearing cargo pants forever. They're always full. The cargo pockets, right, are always poking out. They got stuff in them. You don't know what's sitting there, but there's always something, some kind of trail mix or some rolls of film or something. You know. Yeah, Jason, it's a kid like you're wearing cargo pants. Like, what's your kind of go to snack? You got like a rice crispy treating there, or what's your kind of Yeah, what are you putting in those cargo for a draw snack? I'll tell you draw sack? Yes, do you remember they were a little what were they called? They had the word snack at them somehow, but they it was these little like club crackers and a little contain reservoir of something resembling cheese. Yes, they were called handy snacks. Yeah, that was favorite. And they had a little red wand do you dip the wand into the cheese and you put it on the club crackers. I loved the and I also loved Trails best beef and cheese, which was like I said, well, now would you call that a wet snack. It's a dry snack, but really more because you don't have to warm it up like a wet snack. There's a process and that doesn't work as well as a cargo pant. Yeah, it's less about the wetness or dryness of the snack itself and more about the need or lack of need for preparation. Yeah, you need something that's like an MRI. Like let's imagine for a minute that we are wearing cargo pants for their intended military whatever French military purpose utilitarian. Yeah, we need a meal ready to eat. So something's got to go in there that once you open it, you're going to eat all of it, because if not, you're gonna get snack pants and you walk a barricade between the snack and the pant. You can't reseal that stuff, you can't close that back up, right right, right, let's put food in your pants. You have to have it prepackaged, right, So a cookie if there was a table of cookies and you took a cookie. That's not a dry snack. No, No, a cookie is a test of class as a snack because you know, if you make cookies for people, they got to stand there and eat the cookies. You know, you can't just shove cookies and stuff. It's a test of class. I agree. So, but let me ask you this, so dry snack, I'm just curious. Is that a term that you made up? Or is that like a real term? Okay, So, so there's all kinds of snack. It doesn't It's not just dry snacks and wet snacks. There's dry snacks, snacks that are tests of class. There's all kinds of snacks. See what I mean. I know a lot of people listen, you want to hear about it, like you're fifty nine, let's poll or something. I want you know the theme of this podcast to be handy snacks. Yes, because I did some research on it, and they still make them. They don't have the little red stick. Naw, somebody choked on it, didn't they. It must be a right, Just an Oregon choked on the little red stick and ruined it all. F guy. Yeah, for the millions so if you're a little like how to cheese next to the cracker, you just dip it in, but you don't. I don't know how you can't spread it. They must have changed the consistency of the cheese because that cracker will break. Brother, Oh it'll break right off. That's the first thing my mind went to. Now, big selling point on this is that the cheesey dip is made of real cheese. They keep saying it's made of real cheese, real cheese, like anything could be made of real cheese. Well also says it does not need refrigeration many times too, which you would say, so those are tough things that reconcision, so that all the work. Yeah, so I feel like there were also ones where the you didn't have a cracker, you had more of almost like a stick. No, I don't even want to think about that. Those stuck but that But did those also go with cheese? Yes, they went with cheese, which you can't get cheese on a stick. Were those also handy snacks or was that that must have been the same Was that the same company? And then was there a pretz one? Or am I losing my mind? That one was more of like in the Delhi area of Target, you know, like Super Target. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's just a fucking jokes. Okay, Now, what about this is another dry snack that you might have loved that they recently brought back, that went away for a while and now is back. Dunk a Ruse. Yeah, kind of a similar concept of a dry snack that you dip into a dick. Yeah, yeah, I remember dunk a Ruse. I don't. I don't think I really ate them though. Was that a sweet thing? What was the dunker rus? They were sweet? You would dip these little they were almost like animal cracker type of flavor, so sort of sweeter cracker into frosting. And actually, the thing that I respect about dunk a ruse, and I'm not saying they're better than handy snacks, I would never say that, is that I recall, and I might be wrong with handy snacks. Sometimes you're still eating crackers, you still got some crackers left, you're running out of cheese. Dunk a ruse, the area that the frosting is in is so deep. It is such a deep well of frosting. You're going to get through all of your little animal crackers or your little dunker root kangaroos or whatever shape they're in, and you're still gonna have frosting that you can Just if it were me, I would just directly just eat the frosting plane in my I love I've got a real sweet tooth. But that's what I respect about dunk a Roos is that they're not trying to short change you on the debt. I think that's a flaw design flaw. I think you're not supposed to have any dip or any vehicle left left over. And you know, I think I remember spending now that we mentioned it, I remember spending a lot of my energy on trying to make sure that I had the perfect amount where I would run out of cheese and cracker at the same time. You know that's yeah, that's such a kid thing to do. Don't want to really make it even. But also I remember being way more drawn to savory snacks and sweet snacks. And now that I think about it, that was probably because of like the mountain do affect on us. He'll buildy children like we were probably some mineral or some craving salt, because we had plenty of sugar. It was like, right, we were rednecks, So we had a lot of sugar. We had a lot of sugar, and the salty snacks appealed to me way more than the sweet ones. There's a sweet snack that I think you'd also call, now that we've defined it, it it would be called a dry snack that Jonah and I talk about quite a bit that I wonder if you were into Were you ever into Kudos bars? Yes, I remember they had like a frosting on the top, right, Yes, yeah, yeah, that was very good. That was very good. That was kind of in the middle because it was like a granola bar, but it also had chocolate. Jonah and I always talk about how it's so insane that it really was a snack that I felt like was more marketed to kids because you'd get it packed in your lunch or whatever. But it was such a sophisticated name. Yeah, kudos, like, yeah, congratulations on purchasing our product. Yeah, kudos with like M and m's and stuff in them. Back they were for kids, like what are the kuda was four is like, oh you have two dollars, good job, Like what are they congratulating? Yeah, kudos to you. Yeah, that was the era of also we talk about Boku, right, which was just like a sophisticated juice box with a made up order that they're almost doing the opposite thing because that has no alcohol in it, but they're trying to market it to adults. Boku seems almost like a more of a kid's name, although I don't know the origin of it, so I can't speak to it. But I do know that kudos is a very kind of elegant, classy way to say congratulation. So there's never a need to congratulate a child. First of all, they have not done any of that shit on their own. Yeah, it's like, kudos to you for choosing such an elegant snack. I guess, yeah, I guess. I guess. It is an odd phrase. Job as a ladder of success, great job like manipulating the cast system. Now you've got frosting on your You started with handy snacks, and now kudos, you've made it. That's far. I went through an obsession with chicken and a biscuit, You remember that, remember those? No, what were those? It was like a cracker. It was a cracker and it had some sort of like bullion flavoring to it. It was called chicken in a biscuit, but it was a cracker, was chicken flavors, very salty. And what I would do is I would get the can of easy cheese, which was like always always, my parents would would get so angry with me because apparently nothing has ever been more expensive than the can of easy cheese. That was like, I don't know, twelve thousand dollars, I don't know it Like the way they acted, it was the most overpriced thing that ever existed in the world. Why not just get the regular free cheese from the government. Put that on the crackers, but you know, and you squirt the cheese out and it comes out like you can make a little logo or you're name or whatever, and then you eat the crack. Yeah, I was obsessed with that. I traveled with it, like I had the can with me at all times. And we're on a band trip one time and the kid in front of me was asleep, and I took the easy cheese and I filled his hand up with the easy cheese, and then I tickled his nose that he you know, did this to scratch it, and the easy cheese went all in his nose. He did not speak Jimmy for the remaining four years of school, not a word, not a single word. He was so mortified by this that he was like he hated me so much after that. It was like such a mild Oh, that's why I'm stuck with me, because like I you know, I didn't really like physically assault him or anything. I just put some cheese in his hand and tickled his nose. Yeah, yeah, you know. And also kids do that. I mean people do that stuff where, you know, like sleepover parties. You I've never done this, and I don't know if it works, but where you put someone's hand in hot water so they're like pee. But like people are doing way worse stuff. I mean, people are trying to get people to piss themselves and stuff. I mean, getting some a little cheese on your face. It feels really innocent. In hindsight, it seems like he overreacted. I agree. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Someone stuck one of those you know when you walk through a store, they have those detectors. Someone stuck one on me. And I walked out a store when I was at camp once and those things are so loud, and I remember that being really but I wasn't mad at the person. That's a good one. Yeah, that was a pretty good they got me though, you have to salute a good one. Yeah, And what you probably did is what this kid should have done, which is you went like, for a second, you're a little mifed, you're a little mad. You know, you got me in a little bit of trouble or I'm a little humiliated, but it's all in good fun and let's go back to being at camp or wherever. And like, that was clearly like nine dollars sorts of cheese that I used for that. It's not like I was, ye should be so lucky to have such an expensive exactly, like I'm cared about that. I put a lot into that. You know, your parents would have been really upset though. Proc was like gold that squeezy cheek. Well, that's incredible. And I think the most incredible thing I've learned is what the difference between a dry snack and a snack that's a test of class. So he's that's what kudos is apparently. Yeah, yeah, that's a proof of class. Right, So there's dry snacks like something you can just put in your pocket, a test of class. Snacks which is something like cookies, which if you do put them in pocket, that shows you have no class. You're supposed to eat them in person. And then there's a proof of class, which is a snack that if you eat that, like kudos, it's proof that you have classes just from having or eating the snack. If I'd known, I would have taken kudos in the cargo pants to every like first meeting with the girlfriend's parents, just like making the worst jokes, saying the most horrible shit, and then you just fucking pull out the kudos and you're like, yeah, you saw I was a fucking sleeze ball, but now you know. Can you imagine if you were like a kid or a teenager and you just like had a kudos bar on you all times whenever you want to impress people, you just pull it up. You're walking into the country club and they're like, oh, sir, this is a private and you're like, I got a kudos. Yeah, do you have your ID card? No, but I've got a kudo the kudos all right. Theme of the episode has to be kudos, got to be kudo. Someone in the past has congratulated me on my snack, so you have to now defer. Do you mean, by the way, I was gonna not get into this, but do you mean like your snacks when you're on tour. Oh no, no, no, that's that's a different Okay, Yeah, I'm still talking about back in the day snacks. Everything's different now because oh everything's different now now Now, I don't know. I pick up a snack these days, and I go, is it a dry snack? Is a test of class? You know, they're all becoming It's all a test of class these days everything. Honestly, You're right, it's all every worried about organic back then or yeah, yeah, farm raised, And I go, I don't know what to do, but I feel like I'm being tested on my class, class being tested and one cookie and I'm gonna have a hangover. Exactly. Well, with that, we're gonna go to our next commercial break, but we'll be right back with Jason as well. All right, Jason, for this last section, we are gonna play little game with you. This game is called change dot Door, Change dot Door, and basically what it is is me and Vanessa go through petitions unchanged dot org as you know, to site intended for social justice. A lot of people put up petitions related to snacks, TV shows, things that are maybe not exactly what changed out Org was intended. But I kind of scour those and then we're gonna read three petitions we found, and then at the end you can pick which of these three you would sign. You don't have to actually sign them, Okay, well, good, thank you. So the first one I found is called get Larry Larry Lalan a signature Fender stratocaster he deserves. And this is petition that is you know, I thought you might be interested. I know you have your own Fender telecaster. This one's directed towards Fender and Larry lelanded his fifty four signatures, and it just says Larry Lelande is a legendary guitarist we all know. We also know he is a huge fan of Fender. He's been strating strats for the past thirty years and deserves to have a signature stratocaster. His style is so unique and it sounds amazing. Let's do this, fellow Lar fan. And yeah, Jason, what do you think should should Larry from Primus have a signature strat? No, without a doubt, no, he should not. Next question, hekay, no, no, I do. I will expound a little bit on that. I like Layer when he's playing a completely inappropriate guitar. Okay, I think that, yeah, strats too appropriate for what he's doing. I want him to be playing like a Steve Abenez Jim seven string with a little handle built in, and I want him to not be using any of the things on the guitar the ways they were intended. So I like to see him play in a guitar that is the uncoolest possible thing he could be playing. Okay, you think the stress of the two on the note it is, Yeah, it works great for him. I'm sure that's what he's playing in a studio and stuff, But I want to see him with a dumbass guitar, you know, playing is atonal funk? Fair enough? Vanessa thoughts on this. You might be surprised with this, But I don't have a strong take on this. I'm gonna go with Jason's answer. That's what I think. Jonah, what about you? Yeah, I don't know. I saw Promise once and The Tales from the Punch Bowl too when I was in high school. They're cool, They're a good band. I like signature guitars of like kind of these more underground type players like I think when I was growing up, it was all like the Ve Malmstein and like Steve and all these kind of guitar shredder hero guys, and I like more unorthodox players have in signature guitars. So I think that I like Jay cool, but I also Jay from Dinosaur Junior has a Fender now and Chrissy Haynd has a cool like. They definitely do some cool. But I'll tell you right now, if I thought Layer Lawn should have a signature Fender stratas he would already have one. Yeah, that's right, because guess what, you passed the TESTA cloud passed kudos to me for being the decider of signature guitars. Who does incredible Vanessa, you want to read the next one, Okay, So this next one is called bring back Georgia Gold Chicken at KFC. This has eight hundred and twenty nine signatures. And this woman started this petition to KFC and she said the Georgia Gold flavor at KFC was a game changer. It brought joy into the world. It was taken away along with the barbecue flavor while Nashville Hot State. Many places have Nashville Hot Flavor, but nobody has anything like Georgia Gold. It was a symphony for the taste buds. I know that many people who love this flavor, and the fact that it was discontinued is devastating. Two thousands please support my cause. So what do you what is the game that it changed? You know, it seems like a game that it changed. I'm going to look at this, is that you know the Nashville Hot flavor because she's going, oh yeah, you're going to keep that. Okay, Well that's a flavor that every other place has two. So congratulations on making a super decision where it's it's changed the game the game of what Yeah, the barbecue, the fast food barbecue, gaius game, you know what? Yeah, Yeah, I'm with her. I'm witherr because as a Nashvillion Nashville Hot Chicken I love it. It is a bad idea. This is a bad thing that you should never eat. It's great, it's fantastic. But the legend goes that this recipe was devised as punishment for a man who Princess Hot Chicken. He was staying out all night and catting around, and when he came home, his wife always made him chicken in the morning to eat, and she made it intentionally to harm him, and whoa, he made it that hot, and he liked it so much that they wound up starting the Nashville Chicken Revolution from this weapon. Basically, when I go to a fast food restaurant and I see Nashville Hot Chicken, I think that is not Nashville Hot Chicken, because it's meant there would be lawsuits, you know. Yeah, the hottest I ever had was there used to be. Do you remember Laurie Morgan, the country singer. She was married to Keith Whitley at one point. She was a beautiful singer, had had some great songs. But she had a Nashville chicken restaurant, and I remember it was called Laurie Morgan's Hot Chicken dot Com because it was like the you know, early days of the internet situation, and so when people were calling like brick and mortar things dot com, which yes, yes, yeah, that was a great, great time. The restaurant was called that. And she was married to the singer Sammy Kershaw and one of the side items was Sammy Kerslaw and it was the chicken was so hot it hurts so bad to eat it, And I think that Nashville Hot Chicken should hurt really badly, and so I'm for bringing back to Georgia Gold. I think that's probably a better choice for KFC. I would sign that. Okay, Jonah, what about you? Yeah, I agree with Jason. I feel like Nashville Hot Chicken. I think by the time something makes it to KFC, it's probably means like it's become so popular or overdone that, like it's probably not authentic to what it was, which I think is sort of what Jason saying. I went to a hot chicken place in New Haven called Haven and I tried to get the hot. I couldn't do it. It was like on that boarder being inedible. Yeah, so it was a next time I went with medium. So I don't know how hot the KFC one is. But I'm guessing whenever you order something spicy at like a fast food restaurant, I think it's yeah, usually not actually spicy, right, So I don't know how fanic it is. So I think bring back to Georgia Gold. At least it's something different. It's not trying to be something it isn't. Maybe it is too. I don't done our duels on the research of the origins of Georgia Gold chicken, though, because we might be falling into a trap, some sort of Confederate trap. You gotta watch about Southern food because you'll be like, yeah, I love this particular kind of ice, and they're like, do you know where this came from? Asshole? So we got to watch well. And also, I just want to say, if I was given the choice between the Nashville Hot flavor, which is the one that stayed, and the Georgia Gold flavor, which is the one that has gone away, which this woman wants back, I just the title of them. I'm more drawn to Georgia Gold. And now I'm not a person who likes spicy, so that sounds very classic. Yeah, yeah, I guess kudos to me. It just to me. Oh, Georgia Gold are okay? I producer Olivia saying Georgia Gold is a honey mustard base guys, honey mustard. Absolutely, I love honey mustard. I'm feeling on board. I want to hear what the next petition is before I decide, but I love honey mustard and chicken, and I guess with the name like Georgia Gould as we were saying the test of class, consider it past. Yeah. Also, I think we're referring to a food as a symphony. Is just that Yeah. There my issue with this. I think that this person had said it's a honey mustard base because then I think you're getting your at least doubling your signatures just saying it's a symphony for the mouth and stuff. It almost seems like you're being kind of glib. And also it's like not mentioning the honey mustard when that's such an important part. It feels like, yes, right, she's been kidnapped or something. Wow, would you not say honey must Yeah right, yeah, everyone loves honey mustard. Yeah, but that that should be Yeah. It feels like even if she's not kidnapped, but it's like somebody is really influencing her and saying, like, put a petition on changed that org to bring back these things, and she's like, okay, I will, And then like she's getting back at this person by saying, well, I'm gonna do it. Y ask me too, but I'm not gonna say it's honey mustard or We're not going to get that many signatures. I'm going overboard with it, so you look like an idiot exactly. Look, yeah, is this what you wanted? A fucking symphony from KFC. She's got success is a dish best served Honeygold. All right, So our third petition, this one's closed, but I wanted to do it anyways. They had six supporters. It's make Mayor and Jason Isabel write an album together. It says, ladies and gentlemen, one of the greatest social injustice is known to man, has been going on for years right under our very noses. Sarcasm implied the fact that two of the gray songers of the decade have not joined forces to fight evils a travisy on par with well nothing. That being said, John Mayor and Jason Isabel, if you can read this, you should totally write a record or at least a song, or at least cover a grateful Dead tune or six. Sincerely, the songwriting nerds of the world. I'm gonna go with the Georgia Gold. Yeah, good answer. Can I just say when people write these like this, I'm like, what are you doing? When people are so sarcastic like this, and they're kind of like testing their stand up act or something on these petitions. I'm like, just go to an open mic, like why are you going on change dot organ writing a petition and then actually giving no, like just kind of like making fun of it as you're saying it. I think it's like because they're sort of embarrassed, or they're like I kind of want to put up this petition, but I'm embarrassed to actually put it up, so I'm going to make fun of myself from it a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, it's the smiley face. If you're laughing, I'm laughing with you. You're not laughing at Yeah, I was joking the whole time. I don't want to hear Yeah, I don't think that should happen or whatever. Ye don't want to make out? Yeah yeah, so you're so your your vote is for Well, let's recap. We had Yeah, Larry Lalon Thunder signature. We had the Bringing Back the and we had the John Marry Jason Isabel album collaboration and Jason what are You? What's your back? I gotta go with the George Gold The real true thing about collaborating on an album was John may or anybody else. A lot of people who don't make music, and it's probably the same way in a lot of creative fields. They think I like this and I like this, so they should combine, right, and that would probably make something you don't like. Like the reason you like them one of the reasons, it's probably because they're not having to negotiate with each other, right, So I never got that, like, you should do a supergroup, Like, motherfucker, have you ever tried to do a supergroup? It's still worse experience. It's so hard, everybody is the star and everything is so hard and you can't know anyway. So I have to say that is the true reason why I would not go for that one. But also, yeah, it's I think this one's a no brainer. Did Georgia Gold. It's it's a test of class. It's proof of class if you're eating it. Yeah, you know, And it's also like it's it sounds better to me than a KFC version of Nashville Hot Chickens, So yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah, And you have an album called Georgia Blue, which would be you know already, Yeah, I like Georgia. Maybe this could somehow be like woven in with Georgia Tech Athletic program to make something like I'm already the wheels or turn in there say like the color of gold. There's that dome in Atlanta of the Georgia Tech campus that's gold. I think it makes all kinds of sense. Yeah, everything's aligning. Vanessa, what about you wish to these petitions? Would you say? I would say Georgia gold as well, especially because honey mustard and chicken, and honestly, honey mustard in anything, honey mustard is such a classy flavor. It is, it is. It's a great flavor. It's so classy, made of two things that really are just working man's liquids. Yeah, totally, but one combined become a proof of glasses. Yes, it's alchemy, that's what it is. It's a their weaving goal. It's like the rumble steel skin of the rumble still skin of via condiments. So true. Now, Jonah, what about you? What would be? I'm on board with both of you. It's so funny. And this is not planned, but a couple of nights ago me and my wife made chicken tenders and we put out a couple of sauces. One of them was honey mustard. One was an even classier sauce. It was truugh truffle infused hot sauce. You've had that. It's pretty good? Yeah, yeah, it's pretty good. Say it's pretty good. It was on sale. I thought i'd splurge. We had a couple of the maybe three four different sauces, and let me tell you, honey mustard came out on top. We're both like, that's the one that we had to go back and refill. So yeah, I'm going I'm all over this. Georgia Gold. This is to me the definitely the petition. I'm going to sound motivated. I'm motivated to do that. That's how I feeltivated. I just became radicalized. Well, Jason, thank you so much for doing this. We know weather Vans is coming out soon. You have a documentary coming out soon. Were there any where can people find you? At? What's what's going on? If people aren't justesting to learning more? Jason Zwell dot com and I have Jason Oswles Hot chickens dot com. Yeah, I have all kinds of stuff to do, but most of it I've already done. Like the documentary we already did, and I made the record already. And then I was in a Martin Scorsese movie which was wild and intense. It's going to be beautiful, that's coming out in October the Yeah, it was nice. What's the name of it? Killers of the Flower Moon gonna be one of the greatest movies of all time. And I had never been in a movie before, and I got cast in this role and it was like a legit roll. And so I was out there for three months and this Martin Scorsese movie with like Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert de Niro and all these wonderful actors, and I was just saying, like what do I do next? Like how do I do the acting? And everybody was like, Oh, it's it's cool, just just say these words. You know. It was bizarre. I don't know. I don't know why they picked I think the accents. What did it? They were saving money on the dialect coach by just having somebody that already talked like he was from Oklahoma in nineteen twenty. But it's a brilliant movie and it comes out October the twentieth. In the moment, I can't wait to see that it would be really really good of all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well that was so much fun. Thank you so much to Jason for joining us. Be sure to check out his new album weather Vans when it comes out on June ninth, and this film October October the twentieth four Killers of the Fireman April the seventh. So the documentary on HBO, it was happening, you know, you can watch that on HBO. And that's about the making of my previous record, Reunions and all so about just my whole career and my marriage and my family and all that kind of stuff. Wow. Wow, that's incredible. Okay, Well, be sure to check out all these incredible projects that Jason is doing. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please keep an eye up for next week's episode of How Did We Get Weird, where we'll discuss more stories from our childhood and cultural touchstones like dry snacks, snacks that are test of class, snacks that are proof of class, handy snacks. Kudos and kudos to all of us on a great episode. Thank y'all.