Remember Being a Latchkey Kid? (with Geoff Rickly)

Published Sep 12, 2022, 10:00 AM

This week Thursday frontman Geoff Rickly took a break from playing arenas with My Chemical Romance to talk to us about what it was like being a latchkey kid in the suburbs of New Jersey during the "Home Alone" era of parental supervision. Along the way we also discuss the time Geoff and Jonah's screamo band, United Nations, were sued by the actual United Nations; the fine line between art and absurdity; and Geoff's memories of his first-period chorus class. We also discuss how Jonah stayed at Geoff's childhood home nearly two decades ago for work and recall Vanessa's cherished childhood cat, Pumpkin. Finally. we play an inaugural round of a new segment called "CEO TAKEDOWN" where we look at three CEOs who have made headlines lately and determine which one needs to be taken down a notch. If you're a fan of "the system" you might not enjoy this podcast because this one is for the true punks and outcasts, not the Wall Street billionaires or corrupt cookie corporations who thrive on conceit and complacency. (You know who you are.)

Hi, I'm Vanessa Beyor and this is my brother Jonah. We're two siblings who love to talk about our childhood and nostalgia and how it shaped this into the people we are today, who are sort of EMO if I do say so myself. Welcome to how did we get Weird? Yeah, we pick a different adjective every week, and I thought emo in celebration of our guests, met super psyched about that. Okay, always good to start off with a weird reference. Yeah, So today our guests, it's someone who have been in a band with for a long time, and the band is called United Nations, and there's a story about the band that our singer, Jeff was our guest today who will give a formal intro, used to tell on stage about us being sued by the United Nations. And I think that there's sort of a lot of purposeful misinformation about the band. But I think a lot of people thought that this was made up, and I don't think it was. It was, it wasn't. And so Jeff, I'm wondering if you can tell the story a little bit and then we'll give you an introduction. But I feel like, you know, it's sort of better than anyone else. But we wanted to tell a story kind of related to the band in you know, celebration of you coming on the pod. This is the genius of that band is I'm not sure I always knew everything that was going on in the band either, Like it was so decentralized to like there were lots of times that maybe one of us knew one thing and then somebody else knew another thing, but like it never fully got around. But the way that I came to find out that the United Nations was coming after us was we put out the first record and immediately I think my Space had done like a premiere of it or something. It was insane. It was huge. It got so much attention because the Beatles were on fire in our cover art and so it's just like all this weird stuff and people were speculating and who was in the band. So it had like the second biggest opening on my Space to like Snoop Dogg or something like. It was like it was really wild. So it got like a lot more attention than any of us expecting. Where all excited, and then we found out that like Hot Topic was going to destroy all our records that we sent because of the image of the Beatles on fire. It was like a copyright issue. It's all coming back to me now. I think it was probably Trevor Kelly was working at my Space at that point. I think he had somehow gotten us in some kind of premiere. It sounds so crazy to say my Space premiere was like such a big deal for exposure, but at this point it was right. I think it was nine million streams though, yeah, or something on Yes, it was like hot Topic like yeah, so they bought like a whole run of the records from our label, I guess, like the Vinyl records, you know, because at the time, like a lot of stuff is closing down, but Hot Topics still selling records, and so they bought like a sizeable amount because they sold a lot of Thursday T shirts and stuff. So they brought maybe like five thousand, Like say, we printed ten thousand records, they bought like five at least. I'm going to ask this for the audience, who's like on the same page with me as to what hot Topic is. I thought hot Topic is like a store that sells like clothes and like stuff like that at their pants. Yeah, so we're talking about the same hot Topic. Oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, Well they sold records like the same way that like Urban Outfit or cells vinyl. Now, like if you go under which cell CDs like at the count I see, I see, okay. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't like a record store called Hot Topic that I was getting confused. So this is the place where you would get like pleather pants. You could get pleather pants, Yeah, slip that T shirt and unitations record while you're at it, pick up the unitations. You can't because they destroyed them. All can't do it because a complaint from the copyright holder. And the way the law works is you can be accused of selling black market records unless you provide proof that they've been destroyed. You can't send them back because you already bought them. You can't get a refund on them, and you also can't hold onto them. So the only thing you can do is to destroy them. It's a really weird legal thing. So they send us all these pictures that I'm destroying our records, which was amazing. That's so crazy. So the hot Topic destroys the records, and then my Space takes down our page, right, that's right. But the thing is, if you went to our page, it said that there was a formal complaint lodged by the United Nations. And people were like, this is a joke. And we're like, is this a like literally we were like, is this a joke? Just to remind listeners, your band is called United Nations. Bands called United Nations together, And so the United Nations, like their complaint was that you had their name right, that there was usion in the marketplace, and we used their logo. We did use the look well it was a version of it, a version of the logo it was. It was, you know, the punk, the krusty version of the United Nations pogo. I remember doing some research onto so the season desisted the letter were the letter made into a record, But I remember doing some research on the person who had signed it, and he had sued some other places, Like there was a video game developer who somehow the UN logo was like in the video game and he was like, I got this season. Like there was a guy working at the United Nations who was just like going after intellectual property, like and had gone after a couple other not super I profile places. It seemed like but like other things that named themselves United Nations, do you know what they were like? If they weren't bans, it was like some obscure video game. I don't really remember. It wasn't the name of the game. I think just having the logo in the game somewhere I see, I see. Yeah, the game wasn't named United Nations where it was like you're gonna sit in a meeting all day. Yeah, But like for us, it was like catinet right. It was like getting a letter that we could wrap a bunch of cassettes in. It said like United fucking Nations dot Com meets to cease and desist right now. I was like, oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah. It was like I think I've talked about here, like when my punk band played a talent show in high school and like our singer started mosh bit and spin the audience and then they were principles like we're never doing talent show game. We're like, this is awesome. We ended like I feel they're trying to like penalize you, York. No, this isn't the coolest thing ever. This is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. So I have in the other room in my house, like a record thing from you guys where it's like wrapped in like the season deist letter that was your art for the next album, right, it was part of the box that we put out, the part of the box that that's what I have. And yet but were you guys like freaked out, like could they arrest you or something? Well, it was just sort of this is the thing is you know, as it was done on us that this was a real thing, we started asking ourselves like how seriously do we need to take being sued by the United Nations? And also this is so we're like, okay, countersuit, this is clearly parody and satire and critique, like this is fair used. Except they don't have a trademark. They have a supermark, which I didn't even know existed. I don't know what that is. So it's like a total different class. It's like way above trademark, which means like you really can't mess with this. It's a different section of the law, like you're not allowed to mess with this. This isn't the same thing as all the other trademarks. So we're kind of like, well that makes it more complicated because like the grounds for countersuiting and stuff are totally different. You can't push back the same way. But our lawyer said, well, if you can't push back, just keep going because it is fairy. Just keep going and see what happens. And what happened was eventually that guy got fired as far as I know, although maybe he quit. Oh the guy who was kind of going after you guys, and you know who else quit by the way, which is why some listenersmen have heard the story. Who was our publicist was like yeah, because that's right. Publicists like this is way too much guys like, and it was like a really good publicist who were still friends. But then it's all everything, it's all good. But it was like, yeah, later getting involved in this of a year dumb joke. Now can I ask this why the Beatles on fire? It kind of goes with the whole United Nations themes. So there was this ridiculous trilogy of books called the Illuminatous Trilogy. They were like, it was like this way back when when conspiracy theories were still fun and they didn't like influence public policy, right right right then there was this great thing about how like the Earth is hollow and the ocean is where like all these like mad scientists and Nazis hang out, and like you know what I mean, it's like all these like weird conspiracy theories about like the United Nations is this like cabal and stuff like you know, just absurd, totally absurd. And I thought some of that stuff was really funny. And then I found this artist that I really loved who had this group called the Klef, which is like that goes back to when we're kids, to the kalve is Gonna rock you, you know, like what time is love? That was their jam. But they were like anarchists, like and James Coudy was sort of like a forerunner of Banks. He and like Black La Rat he came before like all those like street artists. His big thing was like down with copyrights, like let's smash copyrights and have like everybody can use everything at all times. And so his art had this sense of strangeness that I really loved of like you know, people battering rams to copyright stuff. He made us those covers with the Beatles on fire, and also like the record insert itself was bugs Bunny with dynamite strapped around his waist and on the back he's blown up and it says, that's all folks, and like he just really likes going after corporations and stuff. And I really enjoyed that about him. And so it's like all kind of other in this project of mixing things like the United Nations against things like Warner Brothers or Disney or whatever. It just it was just an interesting intellectual art project to me. You know, this wasn't like we're not going to make any money off off the Beatles names, or like, yeah, the idea that we're somehow we're solving world hunger or something, you know. Yeah, And I think that the attitude and then having the later seven sh done by Ben Frost, who has kind of a similar aesthetic. But I think the attitude we took with it was the attitude I take with the dentists, which is like, let's just ignore it, hope it goes away pretty and it kind of did in some Yeah the tooth falls out, Yeah, tooth balls out or just stops hurting, or they say a tooth and plants five thousand dollars and you say, are you sure that can't be right? And they say yeah. And then you say, Oh, I'll see in a few years and hopefully it'll fix itself. Jonah, it seems like you've remained really punk. I have a very punk attitude towards dental care, and I'm sure it's gonna pay off in a very positive way. From me. We're going to take our first break and then we'll be back to formally introduced our and we're back. So our guest today, if you haven't figured it out by now, is a musician. Beth Knows, a frontman of the long running post hardcore band Thursday. He also sings for No Devotion. We played together a band called United Nations. He's also a solo artist, extremely well read individual writer. Let's give it up for Jeff Reckally. Hey, Jeff, sorry, we should have done this earlier, but we got so caught up in that story. Yeah, oh my gosh, we're so excited to have you. And so you know, the show is based around nostalgia, and so we have a topic from you. But I was thinking about the fact that I actually think I've been to your childhood home. When I was doing a cover story for Alternative Press. This was actually so long ago. Now, I was doing a cover story Turner Press for War All the Time, which came out what years ago at this point nineteen years ago? At this point nineteen years ago. Okay, so nineteen years ago. I just started working at Alternative Press. I was doing a cover story for part of the story. Were like, you should go to Jeff's parents house where we grew up, which is kind of weird, like I've never done that for another band. But I think we were like kind of friends, like we had met. We were I was wearing very being the Warp tour and O two and we had met and we'd become friends. Yeah, and you were also good friends with the woman that I was dating that would was my wife for a long period. Yes, And so somehow this came up. I remember being with you at like the label and like, I don't know, like and then at some point they were like, you should, like not over go over Jeff's house, you should go over, And I ended up sleeping on like the couch in the living room and that your parents were there. Your parents obviously no long time, very nice. But I remember you had this big kind of like lamp that curved over. It just broke. It just broke, those lamps are so great. Yeah, like a real big base and then it curved way over and hung down on top of you. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's actually what I remember the most. For some reason, that lamp really stuck with me. It lurked over you while you but I remember you like made breakfast for us the next morning, you made French toes or something. I remember, like I was writing about it. But that house, that's where you actually grew up. That's where I grew up coming home and having the house to myself for a lot of the time. And where was it. It was in Dumont, New Jersey? Is that correct? Dumont. It's one square mile. It's a little tiny suburban town. But George Washington Bridge in Jersey. So our topic for today is latchkey kids. And so yeah, you know I've been to the house. Let's take us through a typical day. Jeff, you're at school, school day ends. You know, you're off the bus and Dumont, you're walking up to your front door. What happens, Well, it's a square mile, so there was no bus. We just walk. Okay, no bus, so you just walk home from school. Okay. We lived near the school, but weren't allowed to walk to school. We had to take the bus. It was a rule our school has. Wow, that's kind of cool that they like really cared. Ours were like people got hit by it, Like you had across train tracks and like people died on those train tracks all the time. Like it was a real whoa, How far was the walk to school? Would you from your house? I'd same was about a half a mile. Okay, that's not nothing. It's not nothing. But on the mornings, which is when you really don't want to do it, it was all downhill. Oh that's nice, that's nice. Were you kind of like wait till the last minute and then like have to run to school? Yeah, that was my vibe. You probably wouldn't know from the way that I sing, But I had chorus in the morning. I had like I was in the choir or whatever. So I would always be rolling into like you know, pre first period chorus late, and I'd get like talked to you about it, But I wouldn't get like in serious trouble because it was like an elective thing. Did you ever have any solos in chorus? No? So I was a baritone in chorus, which is hard to believe from how high. I sing on Thursday, but I was a baritone. I was very much like kind of like the bull. What were some of your favorite songs? He's it just fun to think of you singing in chorus. I haven't quite heard you sing songs like that. I don't even remember what I sang back then. I remembered that some days you could see my choir teachers. He would wear white button down shirts with a breast pocket. In some days you could see his bowl of like his weed, and it we'd all be like, yeah, Mr pos was up. You know, so you're starting your day off in chorus and then any other subjects kind of suff I mean, were you into English? Like obviously, like I said, like, you seem to read so many books as long as I've known you. Is that was that you big into that? Yeah? I mean so when I was a kid sixth grade, they separated some of us out to take like the pre s A T s for some reason back then, and if you got above a certain grade, they would like put you in different classes, and one of the classes was reading Moby Dick. I was like really fascinated by that book and the part that everybody else hated where they had like a glossary of seafaring terms. I thought it was genius, Like I was so into it. I thought it was so weird, like it didn't make any sense for this story. And I found that really intriguing. And I think that has a lot to do with the way that I've approached everything I've done in the rest of my life is like, yeah, let's throw something in there. It doesn't make sense. Really get get the people thinking about nice you know. So, what was it like your parents worked or what was your kind of after school situation? Like, yeah, so my parents worked really hard. My mom worked about a half an hour away from the house, but my dad worked in Connecticut, so he was home super late and out of the house super early, and my mom was like really overworked and stuff. So a lot of my situation was just like I would have like a little string around my neck, you know, and at the end of the string was the house keys so that I wouldn't lose them or whatever. And then every day i'd walk home, I'd opened up the door and I'd just do it at like literally whatever I wanted, you know what I mean, no rules? What was like the ultimate like what was like you're really going for it. The height of it was like my dad was an audio file and he had these speakers, these clip shorn speakers that were like almost my height at the time, and you put them in the corners of the room because they used the walls as the base like trap, so like it uses your walls as part of the speakers, and you could turn them up so loud that the windows would shake, like So I would just come home and put on like ninetiesmails and blasted until people like called my parents at work and we're like, you got to tell him to turn down music, you know what I mean. Other days I would just my big thing was like sneak into my dad's Reese's peanut butter cups dash and just clear him out, like eat a whole bag of reth you know, instead of dinner, Just a whole bag of Reese's while I was watching like MTV and getting into it. And you know, the great thing about being a latchkey kid was he'd be like, is your homework? You know? My parents would come and be like, is your homework down? And I'd be like, of course. And then I'd wake up like ten minutes early and try to finish it in chorus or whatever. I never did any homework. I was hold alone, you know, Yeah, it's going to do homework. You don't have any siblings. That's why it's so awesome. Yeah, if I had like an older brother or sister, it wouldn't have been home like doing whatever I wanted. It would have been like hall monitors here. You know. Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. Well, it's so funny because we were thinking about this. I was thinking about you know, our parents worked to growing up, and I was like, how do we get into the house because you had a key run your neck. I was like, if I had a key, I would lose it in five seconds. There's no way. I mean, I lose my keys now all the time. And Vanessa remembered this thing that I forgot, which you might remember it better. Well, this is really crazy. So we have this indoor outdoor cat, Pumpkin. He really looked like a member of our family because he had orange hair. Our parents would leave our garage door open a little bit so that Pumpkin could get under the garage and get to his water and like food which was in the garage. But it started serving a double purpose, which was that the door outside the garage would be locked. But then like when we would get home from school. This sounds so crazy, we would like fully get on our stomachs and like slide under the garage door and then enter the house from the door that was in the garage. I think one of us would do it, and then the person inside could open the garage. But I think it'd be like we get home from school and be like, okay, which one of us is going to slide like twelve inch gap. You're bringing back my memory now, which is that I often forgot my keys. Yeah, and that there was a window in my parents screened porch that I could jimmy open with a screwdriver and it wasn't full sized for a human, but like as a kid, I could dive through hands first through the window and shimmy myself until I fell on the ground on the carpet, like literally like just kind of died, like here I go, and I'd get in and then I'd get through and i'd come and open the door so I could bring my backpacking, which wouldn't fit through the window at all. Yeah, that pretty common thing for kids, I think in the eighties, and yeah, I think it was. I think you kind of just had to make a work, like fine, ways to break into your house, find ways to break into your own house. And what's so crazy is like if we could do that and we were kids, then like a burglar or criminal or someone could definitely do it somehow, Like we're like, no, like this is a good system, this is a good system. Yeah, exactly. It was like a more innocent time in a way, because like the whole thing, if you said it to parents now, they'd beat horrified, like it was there by themselves first of all, right, and second of all, like breaking into their house, like where anybody could see them bringing into the house, including cops, and like where the cop who knows right right? Totally totally. Yeah. I mean I wonder if latch key kids is still like a thing or parents are like, no, you have to stay at like an after school thing until we get home, or I don't know, I don't have kids, but I assume it's less of a thing. It's got to be less of a thing. I feel like it's got to be less of a thing because I don't know, why do you think it's less of the thing. I don't think it's that either of our parents, who are all lovely people, like we've all met each other's parents, like none of them don't like quote unquote don't love us. Yeah, basically, our houses weren't like that secured, but it was You're right, it was a more innocent time and it's sort of a formality to like lock the house a little bit at least where we were from. And so that's really funny. The other thing, Jonah, I don't know if you remember this, but yeah, we would have to do the same thing where we I think, have to leave our backpacks outside of the garage and then like when someone open it, we'd bring them in and then I don't know if you remember this, but one time when we were little, these painters came over to paint our house. I don't remember this. I'm just having a memory of this. Well, Okay, there's two things to say. One is they were like painting our house and we were like in your room and you wanted to, like bee, I remember, we thought the painters were like really cool and he started playing the Guns and Roses song was like really loud in your room. You started playing live and let die. It was so the guy who was painting the house was like outside your window, like upstairs, and he was like, you know this is only on the Sthing soundtrack and you're like yeah, and it was like a real moment you guys had. Anyway, the other thing that I did to be cool in front of these painters was inside the garage. I took like sidewalk chalk and I wrote like, paint me finally face and either one of the either one of the painters or our dad was like, they're not painting inside the so just for the rest of our childhood, just my sidewalk chocolate said paint me was like next to the garage store because it's like it's hard to get that stuff off. Why would you think that would make them think you were cool? I think I was just trying to be like l O L, like, yeah, you guys are like painting the house, like this is so funny. I'm just gonna write paint me because like you guys was paint over this and it's like all good. But like they weren't painting the inside of the garage. You thought it was like ron Burgundy where if he reads it on the teleprompter. He has to say it. It's like the painters, they can't help it. They have to keep. Yeah, like I thought, like this is gonna be so fun, Like they're gonna come to paint the inside of the garage and they're gonna be like, it's hilarious that she wrote this in here. Now we like they're gonna be talking to the buddies after working, like you guys won't believe, but I have no work. It was incredible. First this guy since playing is really cool guns and Roses song. Then his sister, this is hilarious, paint me inside the garage. We were dying the coolest kids ever. Yeah, Like I just remember they were like all these young guys and we were like, these guys are awesome. So anyway, every time we would go in the garage store, it went next to the garage store, said paint me because I've had written that. Well, Jeff, another thing that you brought up is, you know and both of us abrupted backpacks not fitting in and it's like these backpacks were huge when we were kids, right, how would you describe your backpack at that era? I still have back pain from this same I think I do too. Yeah, and that's my backup real bad. Like I carried every text that's the thing. You carried every textbook every day because you had a homework inner. Well. Also there were some kids who would like go to their locker between class and like trade out books, and I would do that a little, but like for me, I was like I'd rather have the time to take my time going from one classroom to another. I don't want to have to stop at my lockers, so I just yeah, oh man, so heavy. And then I'd also put all the stuff that I didn't need for school that I just wanted to have with me, you know, like what kind of stuff, like you're like music or like yeah, I mean I would you know, walk to school, so like I didn't need music, but like yeah, other stuff that I just thought was cool. I'd be like, oh, this other book that I'm reading, It's like, well, I'm not gonna be reading it at school, but like I guess, you know, I wanted to show off that I like books or something that some teacher or like another kid who knows what I was thinking, Yeah, yeah, you know, and stuff like that where it's just like it's already really having my parents alreays be like that is way too heavy, Like I can see your slouching, and I'd be like, it's cool. Yeah, especially if you're walking to school with your backpack. That's like a lot. That's a lot. And I also wanted to be cool and have it on one shoulder. I got to do one shoulder. You can't do both shoulders, like a door. That's probably really good, fierce behind just having a totally off center Yeah great. I bet today kids have like rolling backpacks they carry around, yeah, you know, and they don't get made fun of this way we would for wearing we would. Yeah. I feel like one or two kids had that. In retrospect, those were the smartest kids. Yeah. I also feel like today's kids and this is just me probably projecting, but I feel like they could be like I didn't take the book home and do homework lass night because my backpack was too heavy, and you don't want me to like be disfigured for life because of it, right, teacher, And the teacher be like okay, yeah right. I feel like that's more like there's some kind of consideration of the overall health, right, meaning well, also, we were talking about this on another part like it seems like there's probably a lot of stuff that's online now, like they're probably don't have as big and heavy of books, if any, like maybe it's all online. I don't know. I really am curious to find this out. Yeah, I am in touch with some of our teachers, Jonah, I will find this out, not in like regular context, Jeff, if you think they have oat milk at schools or do you think they're still like just chocolate and regular milk. What do you think the milk selections like these days? I think is probably a good bet. I don't think they have a nut milk, yeah, because I think the nut milk and the allergy stuff, right, yes, so I'm thinking they're just completely avoiding almond milk and all kinds of nut milks completely, Like I don't. I think that was never a consideration. That's a good point. I never thought about that. And then I'm curious. I want to ask you, Jeff, you you put on all these kind of like legend dairy basement shows. Was that near where you grew up forty five minutes by car by car and this was when you were at Rutgers. That's right, Yeah, we still like invested in your studies and stuff during that era, Like, were you still carrying a backpackground I'm picturing more of a messenger back Well, I had a car. Okay, Yeah, the way Rutgers works. My first year, I took the bus to every class, and I would take you know, college classes, It's like you bring a book, you know what I mean. It's then it's like a three hour lecture or whatever, and then you go back home. It's kind of the way that I used to do it. But yeah, so by the time I was in college, I was also sort of lucky that I lived like a smaller offshoot campus of Rutgers where a lot of my classes were in the same building. Like I had like this weird honors program where I had no required classes. So from the moment I started, I just took all the stuff I wanted to take. Yeah, like poetry, dance in the body I took. Freshman year, I was like, oh, Edwards sids orientalism like in literature of the quote unquote. Other was like my first you know, that's like all the stuff. I was like, let's just get into it. Let's get into the stuff that I'm interested in. I'm not going to take World of Insects. I'm not going to take like my gut classes that I need to get through it, Like I just forget it, let's go. So I felt really lucky that I got to do that. But I think my time as a last key kid prepared me for college rather well because it was like on my own yeah sure, yeah, yeah right right. And then when you would get home in college where you still like whipping up a grill cheese or what was your kind of vibe? Like, well, I never whipped up grilled cheese. I never did anything. This is the problem that I had is it never occurred to me I could do something like good. It was always like, what's the frozen thing in the freezer? Okay, whatever it is, I'll follow that out and eat it whatever. Today it's a it's one of my mom's lean cuisines, Like I'll eat that. You know, that's pretty good for you. I mean maybe a little high in sodium, but or if it's three toaster strudles, I'll eat those three, you know what I mean. It's well, you know it's so interesting. Is like, so you're very ambitious in your studies, not as ambitious with your snacking. At this era, I feel like I was the opposite, Like I would try to take the easiest classes I could. In college, I took a class called as the Sky Blue. Yes did you find out? I don't remember. It was like like one question. And then I took this class that was called Mathematical Art with Computers, and we read this book called like the Holographic Universe. It was like, how like the whole universe is a hologram? Are you familiar with this? Yeah? So we did that, but we would it would be like literally like for extra credit, like go on your computer like an art program. It's like make like a Halloween picture. This can out like twenty two years old. So I'm making like a little jack O lantern. We read that hologram and then I took another class. It was like a fitness class. This cannot be a thing anymore, where the teacher was like, Okay, we're gonna going to treadmill the first day of class, and like everyone's gonna do He's like okay, it's like I want you to run five miles a week. All you have to do is every Monday go to my office door and just write that you ran five miles and then we won't meet all semester till the last class over What can I just back up, Joan, isn't the sky blue because it's reflecting the ocean. I think it's more complicated than that. Right, So you're saying, well, what about areas where there's no ocean? Right right, right, right, right right, So maybe you should take this class. Well, it doesn't seem like you learn the answers that I didn't learn the answer. That's the problem. I feel like it was a class. Maybe we went outside and walked around and there was some kind of scientific element to it. But I remember also hearing through the grapevine like this is a really easy class, and that's why I took it. But I felt like I would go to the grocery store by tons of food. I mean, I was making veggie burgers left and right. I was making those Amy's pre made things thrown in my own ingredients. That's surprising Jonah, because when we were latchkey kids, he used to have me make you all of your snacks. And that's the only way. We've told this many times that Jonah would sit in our living room and watch TV and I'd be like, can I use the treadmill that was also in the living room and watch TV? And he'd be like, I'll move up to mom and Dad's room to watch TV in there, if only if you make me a snap. So I'd have to make him like a sandwich or like all this other stuff, and I'd like make him a snack and that would get him to like move upstairs so that I could like exercise in the living room bargaining, which you know, I had to bargain with him literally to get him to stand up and move like five feet. I remember like literally three or four weeks into my first semester calling my parents meal I'm kind of hungry, and they were like, you have a meal plan included in your tuition, and it's state schools. It was like really cheap tuition, Like I think my year with housing in a meal plan was like six thousand dollars. They were like, you have a meal plan, Like, there's all this food in the cafeteria. I bet I had gone like three weeks just kind of like if my friends reading, I'd be like, okay, I get some of that. You didn't know you had a meal plan. I didn't know, and I would kind of like if I was hungry, I'd like go home on Saturdays to because I didn't have forty five minutes I had a car, I'd like go home and eat a bunch of food at my parents house and then go back to school and kind of like basically starve all week whoa. And then like at some point I call them because I was like, I don't think I can go home this weekend. I am I going to eat? And they were like white, also like we did give you an emergency credit card in case you like need something, And I was like really how much? How much is on it? And they're like oh no, you know, like they were like okay, this kid is like wait, once you figured out you had a meal plan, then where you like stoked? Where you like, oh my god, crazy? Yeah? I went crazy. I showed all my friends this trick that I learned from being a latch key kid with this cereal bar. I knew you were going to say this because we would do this too. Yeah, the rice crispies. Right, they had a hot chocolate stand as well with all these miniature marshmallows. So I would take a bowl and I showed everybody put like half a bowl of rice crispies, put like half a bowl of many tiny marshmallows, and then this is the trick. You unwrap one of those single served butters that they have and you put that on top. Put the whole thing in the microwave for twenty five seconds. But as soon as it looks like it's about to explode in the microwa if you turn it off, and then you take it out while's still hot, and you whip it as fast as you can with the spoon until you have a whole big bowl of crispy tree. That's incredible. That's not what I thought you were gonna say. That's such a great trick that I didn't have. What I thought you were going to say is like so many people. It's so funny, like how people are around what we thought was like free food, but I guess it's just like unlimited food. All these kids would like go to the cereal bar and take like water bottles and stuff and just like fill them with milk, like I don't know what that so they could like take all this milk back to their dorm. I don't know. Because people thought like milk was like expensive, but they'd be like, I'm gonna go like get all this milk to like bring back to my dorm. Like I remember taking like I couldn't help myself but take like apples and like bananas and stuff that I would be like and then it would just like sit in my dorm. Like I just remember being like I have to take everything I can. But also the other thing I remember everyone doing was going like the breakfast stuff was like going and making a waffle and then putting like ice cream and stuff on it, and that would be people's like dinner. Ela. Yeah, the waffle bar was definitely like and then everybody be like talking about the freshman fifteen or whatever. But yeah, I mean I gained so much weight my freshman year. It was just like incredible. You sort of were like, oh, I think when I go to the like commissary, you would just be like I just have to eat as much as I can. Like you just sort of were like, this is what makes it like worth my parents money or my money, depending on who's We were very lucky to have our parents pay for our college, Like, yeah, we had loans also we pay I mean we had loans. Yes, we had to pay back loans. But either way, it's like, if I have the opportunity to come in here and eat, I should get as much as I can. Absolutely it makes it a better deal. Absolutely, Yeah, I mean I definitely felt that way. But I also just was so forgetful. Like I don't know if it's because I had all that time on my hands when I was a kid that I just didn't have any structure whatsoever. Yeah, So like when I got to college, I would just like, yeah, I would forget to eat for a few days and they're like I'm kind of hungry, you know, like I have to wait until my body was like, dude, what are you doing. You're gonna let us die? Like that's kind of how Jonah is. Jonah would like forget to eat, and I'm like, I can promise you one thing, I will never forget to eat. Like it's like the second it's like time for food, I'm like, uh, yeah, I'm gonna need to stop everything and get it. I don't understand that about you guys. I don't know. I feel like when I was at age, though, like I can really relate to what you're saying, Jeff, because I feel like they were just really obvious things that I just like didn't get or like I didn't have like the vocabulary to like ask about stuff. So I would just sort of like go with it, like until someone's like, what are you doing that? This is like I'm very adaptable, you know what I mean? Because of that, like I can just kind of be like, oh, I guess this is what we're doing now, like staying in this car for three days and we're not eating, Like I don't know what's happening. Okay, Well, I mean I think probably in a lot of ways that really prepared you for like living a life where you're going to be touring a lot, especially in your twenties and stuff, because you know you're in so many you know, sleeping on someone's floor, you have to be so kind of flexible, especially you know, at that era with Thursday, when we started touring, with the first two or three years of touring, we had this like and we got this from this band Que and Not You from d C, which was we called it five dollar days to everybody, like we would play a show, we get paid, and we put most of that into gas, and then everybody would get five dollars each day and five dollars of what you had to live on. And sometimes you would form an alliance with like another band member and be like should we get bread? You know what I mean? Like together we can get bread. That's so awesome. But other days you'd be like fighting with him and be like, no, Brad, I guess I'm going to go for Cheetos today. Yeah. I remember that those days too, and what's crazy, We're gonna take a break. But I actually set up a Q and not you show in a college inside a dorm when I was in college, in an actual dorm and kids were trying to study. They were a band from d C. And I remember the elevator was broken. They were carrying all their gear and I had my own band open. Of course he got it because you got to. But yeah, I set up a show with them, and they became sort of this kind of like legendary band who weren't around that long, but they played in a dorm. Everyone in the dorm pretty much hated it, except like the twenty kids watching the band. Yeah, kids were literally like I don't know how you could do stuff like this, like like, yeah, we should just set up here in like the recreational room of a dorm where there's like all these other people living. I'm not going to ask them, I'm just gonna do Yeah. Yeah, I would have been one of those kids who would have been like, mad, I love it. I definitely would have put it on too, Like, definitely would have been one of the ones putting it on and definitely would have been like, what do you mean you're studying? Like do that? Later the show, I would have been like, who do I talk to to get these guys kicking? Maybe you should study some post hardcore. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be back with Jeff really after this. And we're back, so Jeff, before we get to our final game, we wanted to see if you had anything else, you know, being the left key kid. This is our first time talking about this on the show. Do you have any other stories maybe that stick out to you sort of from that era that are maybe you know, a little more intense, a little more maybe interesting. I don't know what do you got? Well, I've got some things that probably are like the kinds of stories that led to people not leaving their kids home alone. Man. Yeah, because my favorite days to be like at home alone, where either like there was a holiday from school but not from like parents work, or like a half day, which for us in high school because of like the way rotating lunch periods worked, I had lunch a lot of the time at like ten thirty am. Yeah, so did we. That was so weird. So weird. That was weird. That was weird. So on half days, my lunch would go right into the when the half day break was yeah, I'd just be like, Okay, at ten thirty, I'm out of school for the day. This is amazing. And my girlfriend at the time, my high school girlfriend, she was like, oh, I got some mushrooms, Like do you want to try mushrooms with me? And I was like sure, you know, I don't know. I guess so I didn't know what they did or anything. I just knew that they were magic. So she was like, well, can you hold them at your house? Because like her parents were always around, they used to like cook dinner and have dinner together and stuff like that. She's like can you hold them? And It's like sure. And so we had this half day and we're going to meet at my house and take the mushrooms together. And I was really excited. So I got home and I was like looking at the bag and I was like, well, I guess I should get started. So I took half and save the other half for her, and she called and she was like, oh, I have to work. I have to work. I got called into work and I was like, you can't go to work because I took half already. You gotta come and take the other half. She was like, you mean you took a quarter of them. Half of them are me and you have and the other half her for another couple And I was like, oh no, I took half, like the whole half of the bag. She was like that's a lot, dude. She's like, that's a lot of mushrooms. You just took Like how many times have you done this before? And I was like never. I was like okay, well i'll try and come over when I get a break because you're gonna need some company or whatever. And like forty five minutes later, I was like, nothing is happening. This is so dumb. And I called her and I was like I think you got bad whatever, and she's like it has been a long time, like it probably isn't. So I just ate the rest just for the fun of it, and then it was really serious. It was like this year at a sixty, like my whole living room came alive and I was like dancing. My uncle is a sculptor, by the way, He like carved this one thing out of a branch of a tree that fell down in a storm, and so I had this like weird cat, like like he's a psychedelic painter, like post point a list, and so we have all his stuff around my house and I'm like it's talking to me and dancing in my living room. I'm like dancing with it. And like she knocks on the door and I wake up and like I don't have pants on anymore, and like, you know, it's just completely like I've lost track of four hours. And she was like, dude, you are tripping so hard, and I could barely understand what she was saying. So she leaves again, but she gets me like together where my pants are back on, and suddenly finally I'm like starting to come down. It's like four o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like starting to normalize a little bit, and the door opens and my dad is really early for more and I was like, hey, dad, what are you doing here? And he's like, I'm here to make sure you get your college applications in. Was like what, He's again, it's like the deadline to have it postmarks today, So like, can you come here and look at all these essays you wrote and make sure that they're like edited? And I'm trying to read them and I'm just like, oh my god, what is this saying? Like I'm like, this is a disaster to my dad and he's like what. I was like, I don't even think it's English, and he's like looking, He's like what, it's fun. So I'm just like and I'm like talking. We had a globe, like a big globe in my house. He could spin around and look at the different and like it's spinning itself and the names of all the cities are jumping off the globe. And I'm just like talking globe, like, you've got to calm down, man, Like he's gonna know that you're messed up. I'm okay, but you're going to get in trouble. And my dad's like, why are you being the globe? Yeah? And I'm like talking about globe. Did you have any interactions with that lamp in your living room did but it was a very benevolent creature, so it was all good, you know. And then so he decides he's got to drive me to the post office. Now I'm in the car, and I guess a bunch of my friends were in the car in front of me, stopped at a light. It's a square mile town, it's a small and they're all like beeping and like, hey, dude, what you know, waving and stuff, and my dad's like, looks like, are some people up there trying to get your attention? And I said to him, just ignore them. They're not real. And I guess, like later at some point I told him and I was like, you knew that. I was like tripping really hard though right that time. And he was like, no, I just thought you were being really a social like they're not real. Don't talk to them. That's like a new level of antisocial, like just no one else exists in my mind. These kids pretty nihilistic and like, wow, yeah, I guess, and your home alone, you know, last key kids, all kinds of things can happen. Huh yeah, I mean look at mcaulay culton, right exactly, so true, so true, let that be an example for sure. Yeah, Jeff, thank you for telling that story that I never knew that. Have you write any songs about that situation? Got something? I did have some like really wild stuff that I remembered about that trip when I was older. Wow, I bet that really traumatized me. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure kind of. I think it's funny that your dad just was kind of like, this is weird, but not that weird. Yeah, like it's not weird enough to be concerned, just like a little heightened version of Jeff maybe yeah, like well within the confines of my personality. All right. Well, so now i'd like to induce a brand new segment. This is the first time we're ever doing it on the show, and I've been working on this really a lot, and Jeff, I'm so excited for you to be here for the inaugural edition of a segment I called ceo Takedown. Oh takedown, As listeners of podcasts might know, I like taking CEOs down a notch. And you know, as you know, CEOs don't often get taken to task for their business practices. Let's face it, people have been scared across them, and with good reason until now. We'd like to interest a new segment called Ceo Takedown, where we review the facts and take down one CEO who may have the power of their company, but don't have the power over this podcast. Johnah, I think you're leaving up the last line hero that road. That's for damn sure that love it. So basically, in case you can understand from that summer a Road, We're gonna go through three CEOs that I found who are in the news recently. We're going to describe each of them, and at the end, we're gonna pick which CEO deserves to be subject to a CEO takedown. And John, I'm going to kind of let you lead this one because it feels like you you're the most passionate about it. Okay, and you found all these CEOs? Yeah, I found all these. So the first one up is Mike read of Ghannett typical ceo. This is kind of what we call classic CEO behavior. Ghanette is a publisher, right, I believe at my school we had a building named after Ghanette and upstate New York. So basically he just is preparing to launch a new round of layoffs. It's a newspaper chain. They last fifty four million, and this week they're laying all these people off the loss us money. He spent one point to two million to buy five thousand shares of the stock, you know, the stacks down. He's buying all this. The Arizona Republic says, why are we suffering for poor business ownership? This dude is reaping millions off the backs of our labors, threatening us with layoffs than betting money and the expected gains from us gone. This is cold hearted and a moral business practice at the hands of the CEO. So basically, the executives are trying to make money, laying people off, you know, and they're buying back their own stocks. That's what Mike read it connets do an according to this article. Yeah, so this is nothing new, right right, Yeah, especially with the publishing industry or newspaper industry. You know, it's like already in trouble. Jeff, what do you think about stock buy backs? What do you think about this Mike read situation. I don't know if I like it. J Yeah, Yeah, I'm with you. I don't know if I like it's that good. Like I said, journalism, you know, we need more support as a journalism, and you know, and I don't think you should be able to bet on your own company, right, like you can't bet on baseball team if you're a coach. You just you're waiting for the price to go. It seems like there's a little bit of an insider thing happening. That's not cool. And to quote Dan Kennedy, a journalism professor at Northeastern University who runs a blog called Media Nation, in the people doing the actual work make peanuts and now they're bracing forget another round of layoffs, while the people presiding over this fiasco are paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Yeah, I don't like that. You know, when people talk about like the decline of the Western civilization as like the you know, it's all gonna crumble down, it's like, I feel like that's the kind of stuff. It's just it's so obvious, you know what I mean. It's just when the people who do all the work get treated like slaves and the people who do nothing and actively undermine their own businesses get rewarded handsomely for it's like that can't go, that can't sustain itself. That's just they're trying to get as much money out right before the fall. Who cares screw everybody else? Yeah, it sucks. I don't like it. Not cool. He's definitely in contention for the CEO. We're going to take downs in the run. And by the way, I assume we're taking them down with like insults and puns about their name, right, Yeah, we can't actually oust them from office, right right? Right? Okay, Jonah, do you want to introduce this next one that you found? The next one? Yeah, this is Brandon Walak of a company called Hypersocial, and he's gone viral recently because he started crying talking about when he had to make layoffs, and this went viral and now he's saying he wasn't trying to make it about him. It was an emotional post crying CEO hashtag went viral with a lot of comments. Basically people are saying, like you know he said on LinkedIn, you know, he wasn't trying to make it by himselves. He's sorry if it came across this way. I think basically this guy was laying all these people off and crying, I think to kind of try to show empathy. But I think some people thought maybe it was a bit performative. There's a bit of like an imagine all the people type of yeah a vibe, which you know, I love it. I love that video. I felt closer to all everybody in the video. I know everybody else thought it was like not so hot as moment, but I was like, I like him. They seem nice. Yeah. Right. There was a video where this woman who was in charge of like letting kids into like n y U theater school to the people who didn't get in or something she likes, sang a song in a video to like let them down easy, And it's reminding me of this. It's so funny and it's so like toned deaf. I feel like that's what's going on with this crying CEO a little bit. It's like you're the one who gets to keep your jobs, so maybe don't Yeah, I agree. I mean I think like we shouldn't. Crying is cool, Like I think, you know, we should make fun of Maybe people think he's not being masculine or something that. I don't think that part. I think that's good to kind of be in touch with your emotions to express it. But I do think, like, you know, right, there is a power dynamic there. Yes, I don't know the context of it, it does feel, you know, if he's being legit, great, but if it is a little bit of a performative thing, that might be a little bit like, Okay, maybe there's more you could do for the company versus this doesn't really helping anyone. You're making millions of dollars every year, and you know it's hard for me to empathize with you, right, so far we got to right on the scale. Yeah, I think like improperly like handling your emotions is lower to me than manipulating your Absolutely. Yeah. The other guy's way worse. Yeah. Yeah. I tried to kind of put them in this order. And this last one is definitely the most absurd wild CEO story. Okay, yeah, and it's related to something that I know you're a fan of, Jeff, which is cookies. I know you're a big fan of sweets. Yeah yeah. Jonah listed the CEO's name and then put in parentheses Jeff loves dessert. It's sure, I do. I love dessert so much. I did too, I did too. Jeff is a sweet edge tattoo. I mean, he's sugar head he's a sugar head. Yeah. Same, I'm a sugar head and a chocoholic. Go ahead, Jonah. So I'm guessing who else is a sugar head. Jason McGowan, CEO and founder of Crumble Cookies. Okay, okay, okay, So there is a Utah cookie war going down this summer. I don't know if any of you have heard about this. Jason McGowan, the CEO who sued two smaller cookie companies in May, accusing the companies of infringing on Crumble's trademark and design features of the packaging. Yeah, so he's saying these other cookie companies be their process trademark when this guy work for the United Nations and trade dress in a similar way. So they filed these on May ten, saying they're confusing. This Crumble company launched in two thousand seventeen and actually has five thirty three locations in forty six states, twenty eight locations in Utah. And one of the companies they're suing is called Dirty Dough. Yeah, we're not a great name, but yeah, they started in two thousand nineteen and they have a bunch of locations. But wait, to be clear, dirty Dough again, I'm not sure what they were thinking when they named it. It was starting two thousand ninety open its first door in and Tempe, Arizona, and it now has locations in Utah, so it has like about five locations. Just to be clear, it's not nearly on the same level as Crumble. So that the CEO of Dirty Dough mocked Crumble on LinkedIn, said, a billion dollar companies suing two startups. Why because apparently if you put sprinkles on your cookies, Crumble thinks they own that. Watch out, Grandma, you better throw with those sprinkles and you'll be Crumbles next victims. John, I, you thought that was so funny. Then Dirty Dough said they would announced billboards with slogans saying cookies so good. We're being sued, or our cookies don't crumble with the competition and we don't file lawsuits. We just have better cookies. Yeah. Wow, it seems like they're doing their own CEO take time. They're doing a lot. The other company is called Crave and they're also being sued. There's a lot going on. Dirty doughs saying that amidst the lightheartedness of social media, they're taking the allegations seriously. So yeah, it seems like, Jeff, what do you think about the Utah cookie wars? This is a wrinkle that I want to bring up. Crave has been a pretty quiet about this, you know, dirty Dough. It seems like they feel like they have nothing to hide, except maybe they should be hiding their stupid names. But Crave, it says, has been comparatively very quiet. Amiss this controversy. And in the federal lawsuit against Crave, Crumble, the CEO that you know we're talking about, he argues that Craves co founder Trent English, that's not a real name. He applied to be a Crumble franchise owner and toward a Crumble store before his application was denied. Now, if I'm the CEO, I'm going to go after That's like a reason I guess to go after Crave. But the truth is, like, are either of these companies really a threat to Crumble? You know, like I feel like it's drawing more negative attention almost, although I guess, and he pressed as good pressed as they say in my biz, they got a Crumble cookie in your mouth by saying it, you know what I'm saying, right right, right, So we're promoting crumble cookies right now. Now, I think the company least at fault is and who's actually handling this kind of the best is Dirty Dough, even though again don't support the name. Well, I wonder what the complaint against dirty Dough is, Like I know dirty Dough is saying like it's just sprinkles. Yeah, right, you know, I wonder what it is because on the one hand, obviously there are a lot of big corporations and this sounds like they're actually quite big will just use the law as like a cudgel, you know, and just kind of be brutal with it. And then I think, you know, I have some friends in the food world because of my partner, you know who I've seen. It's amazing now, Like one of them that donut make her, like a fairly prominent donut make her very modestly gets by, you know, because they're the people who make all the recipes and stuff. Are usually not the people who make the money from it. It's usually there's like money partner or whatever. Right, there's like a financial partner. But she would go and do like I'm going to go to a festival and cooked donuts there and what kept happening was like in different places, the staff that she trained up to help her make the donuts on site would then pop up like six months later with all her recipes looking exactly as her donuts with their new company that they were turning out like investors for and stuff. Where was right right? Show that is really and to be fair, she never seed any of them or anything. She just kind of like this is pretty uncool, Like I gave you a job and like, yeah, yeah, that's a lesson to me, because what I was gonna say is like there's only so much you can do with like cookies and like your but I guess like the way that you trademark design the cookies and like all that stuff, like they're saying it's like the packaging and stuff. Yeah, I don't know, you know this, it's a fine line. It's really like every case. Yeah, it seems like the CEO does have like so many stores that like it doesn't really feel like these places are a threat. I do think it's a little sketchy. Yeah, that the person from Crave like did do like a tour and like wanted to own a franchise and then like opened his own like it also could be somewhat coincidental that like that person was like, you know what, instead of just like spending all this money to open this franchise, I'm gonna start my own thing. Yeah, it's it's possible. I mean, there are things that can be twisted to be made to look bad, but aren't that bad. And then there's also like a lot of people who just will be like, screw it. I saw how they make cookies. Why would I pay them any money? Where? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, But Jeff, this would be like you like sueing a band being like you guys kind of sound like Thursday, Like I'm going to sue you because you know, yeah, you're inspired by me. It's like this also reminds me of I don't know if you found the firesider controversy. What is it firesight or is like this kind of like medicinal kind of like folk recipe of this like cider made with like this controversy. You're very into like herbalism and stuff. And so there was this drink that's been around since the seventies, and there's this woman, Rosemary glad Star, who's a herbalist. She invented the drink and then this company by US called Shire City Herbals tried to trade market and was like sending cease and desists basically to herbalist who had been making this like drink since the seventies. It was like a free thing and they were trying to prevent other people from selling it, and Shary just this company just ended up going on a business recently. And to me, it's like you can't like a cookie or like a drink or something. These things are so it's not like a computer program or something like. It's to me, it's like so hard to copyright a product unless it's like exactly the same, unless you're really confusing people. Yeah. It's also like when these bigger companies are going after these smaller companies seem like they're really no threat to them, and like, you know, it's all kind of relative in terms of like you know, yeah, I mean I do wonder if, like you know, Dirty Dough has multiple locations, so if we're starting to feel the heat right right right, crumble starting, Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I feel like Crave is being a little sketchy, but I love that Dirty Dough is just like we're gonna like take out billboards, like making fun of these guys, like that's how much we they're like the United Yeah they're Dirty Dough is kind of similar to the United Dirty Dough or the United Nations fighting like really hard for like a company and a name that like it's like, okay, just kidding you guys know, it's a really good band name. This is a new material for your you know, when we start playing again and come and give us a five on the Unitedations. So we've talked about it before, we didn't really talk about it today when I did a roast of United Nations and I made fun of everyone in the band and the band in general, and Jeff, I think my burn for you I meant to get my journal. It was something about your spelling your name with the G. Yeah. It was about you would only like trust me to tell you a jean jacket or something like that. Yeah, yeah, like gap or something because of the way I told my name, which I really liked. My favorite out of all the burns though, is that we had David and Zach as our rhythm section like they were toppers. Yeah. Yeah, it was really fun. You guys are so nice. You let me play your cool shows. And do my dumb jokes. Well, I got news for about a hundred eighty grand. We can start our own dirty jokes franchise, and maybe after the podcast we can talk about I feel like maybe open with these in green Point. Jeff, I don't what do you think, My gosh, it would be huge. But wait, we gotta talk about who of these three CEOs do we want to officially takedown? Yeah, so just to recap, we got the Mike Read from Gannett, we got Brandon Wallacky of hyper Social, and we got Jason McGowan of Crumble Cookies. Jeff, what do you think So we've got like the cookie was that the cookie thief or something that was in there, like a cookie bandit? Remember there was like a cereal that was like about like like Cookie Chris, Cookie Crisp. It's like, yeah, there was like the cookie bandits from Cookie Chris. That's like the one guy is like a cookie bandit and the other guy is like a crying ceo. Right, yeah, and then the third guy is like I'm going to destroy every writer on the face of the planet. Basically. Yeah, I think I think that's a good summer. Yeah. I think Mike Read is my he's my choice. We gotta take him down. Yeah, we gotta take down my creed of Cannet. Okay, yeah, so everybody's gonna I guess we've never gotten this far in this game because we've never played this game before. But I think the way we take them down is I think the way we take them down is we play this sound effect that I made. Yeah, Okay, yeah, Mike, read've been this, Oh take down? Well, Jeff, where can people find you? I've been banned from Twitter because they don't believe that I'm me really, so you can't find me? Like what? Yeah, they said that I have no proof that I'm Jeff Rickley, singer of Thursday, And that's probably because I got so her and so I changed my email on my phone number so that I wouldn't have any like contact with old drug dealers and things like that, and so I can't prove that on me on Twitter anymore. But Thursday band is on Twitter and Instagram and No Devotion bands who just put out a new song today, which I'm extremely proud of, Like, I really love this song. It's one of my favorite songs I've ever done. We put out a song today That's No Devotion band on Twitter or Instagram or wherever, and then I'm just Jeff Rickley at Instagram if you're looking for me, and that's those are the easy places to find me. That's great, Jeff. Check out Jeff's new song with No Devotion. Check out United Nations band. Yes please, Yeah, we still have those properties, right, Joe, I think we still have our social media's. We gotta do something again because our last record was for the next four years, but we've run out of years. We've run out of years. It's overdue, so you gotta do like the last two years plus a couple more years. That would be a great title for We could do that cross promo with Crumble and it's gonna be yeah good, so yeah. Jeff, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Check out all Jeff's music all as many bands, and if you like this podcast, you can leave us a review on iTunes. Please subscribe to the podcast and keep an eye out for next week's episode of How Did We Get Weird? Where we were discussed more stories from our childhood and cultural touchdownes like being a lack kid. Thanks so much, John, Thanks so much, Jeff. That was so fun,

How Did We Get Weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer

Before sibling duo Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer took the comedy, music and general world by storm,  
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