Something strange happened in Upstate New York during the 1830s. This area was called the "Burned-Over District" because so many fiery religious revivals swept through that it was metaphorically burned over. This region became a key source of the Second Great Awakening, a Protestant revival movement marked by emotional preaching and mass conversions, as preachers like Charles Finney inspired thousands to seek personal salvation and social reform. The revival spirit also birthed new movements: Mormonism emerged with Joseph Smith's founding of the Latter Day Saint movement in 1830, the Jehovah’s Witnesses trace their roots to the Bible Student movement that gained traction later in the century, and Spiritualism took hold in the 1840s with the Fox sisters’ claims of communicating with spirits in Hydesville, New York.

This episode, however, isn’t just about the Burned-Over District. It’s about how these revivalists tapped into a distinctly American form of power, one not built on title or lineage, but on pure, raw charisma. From Puritan prophets and prophetesses in the 1600s to big-tent revivalists in the 1800s, and even to modern self-help gurus like Tony Robbins and Oprah Winfrey, charisma has shaped influence across time. It empowers figures like presidents Donald Trump and Barack Obama to amass followings, sustain authority, and shape the national narrative through sheer personal appeal.

Today’s guest is Molly Worthen, author of Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump. We explore the roots of charisma and power in American democracy, whether it’s necessarily bad or can be used for good, and how to avoid falling under the spell of a charismatic demagogue.