Isaac Mizrahi chats with former NFL star, Malcolm Jenkins, about how influential the women in his life are, why failure inspires him, the importance of reinventing yourself and more.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Malcolm Jenkins @malcolmjenkins.
(Recorded on October 17, 2023)
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I have a few shows coming up, firstly at Cafe Carlisle on November twenty eighth and twenty ninth. The show is called It's Beginning to Look a lot like Isaac, And in case you didn't realize, that's going to sort of be like a little holiday show, So it's going to be totally fun. My band stories, I'm gonna regift because it's around the holidays and I need to make room for my new regifting, So there's that. Also, I have another show on December one in Stony Brook, which is in New York, and that's going to be really fun too. Please go to my website Hello Isaac to get tickets.
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It is a very violent game. I kept getting hurt like year and a year. I'm just missing few games. I kept getting pinches in my nerves, in my neck, and it was because I was trying to convince myself to play this like gladiator sport and punish people.
And then I.
Changed the way that I played the game, and I stopped trying to hurt people and I stopped getting hurt.
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi and in this episode, I talked to two times Super Bowl champion and former NFL star Malcolm Jenkins.
Hello, Isaac, this is Malcolm Jenkins, two times Super Bowl champion, now author. I heard that you were a huge football fan and knew everything about football, so I can't wait to talk to you.
I have never been this terrified before like any podcast saping. This is like Mount Everest or something. Today I'm talking to this really famous and fabulous football star called Malcolm Jenkins, who, on top of everything else, is so gorgeous to look at.
Right.
But I know literally nothing, nothing, nothing about football. I know a lot about baseball, and I really like baseball.
I watch it all the time. And thing is like, you know, I wouldn't.
Say I dislike football, because what's not to like about it? But I don't understand it. Like I try to watch it, I try to get what it's about, and the minute I think I understand it, I find out that I don't know what the hell I'm even thinking about or looking at. You know, So this is going to be like a great, big challenge for me. So come on and let's get started because I can't waste another second. Here we go, Malcolm Jenkins, Hi, what's going on for that? Where am I finding you? Where do you live these days?
I actually bounce between Philadelphia and New Orleans, So I'm in New Orleans right now, but I spent the time between the two cities.
I see.
Well, now here's the thing, and I'm going to be completely honest with you.
I am so scared to talk to you.
You are the first football player I've ever like interviewed in my entire life. And you know, I like certain sports. I like to watch things I don't know, like I like to watch tennis, and I like to sometimes watch football. But I have literally no idea how to play the game, and people have tried to explain to me. I know, the object is to get the football from one side of the you know field to the other and to touch it down. I guess a touchdown, right? And you played the position of safety right?
You know?
If you talk to me about shortstop or something, I completely understand what a shortstop is in baseball because I watch baseball, but I have no idea what a safety.
What is the job of a safety? Can you tell me?
Yeah, essentially, you know, like you said, the offense is trying to get down the field and get a touchdown.
The safety is the last line of the defense. So he played.
He is away from the ball, he's responsible to stop passes, he tackles everybody, and oftentimes, because he's the furthest away, he has the best vantage point, so he's often the traffic controller for all of.
Right, So it's like goalie or something.
Yeah, similar.
Yeah, but you just explained that and I completely understood it.
I've been googling this all fucking morning, like safety safety, I have no idea, And I'm telling you, when you're watching the game, like you think you understand, and then someone blows the whistle and you're like, well, why do you do that? You know, it's like and then everything changes and you thought you understood, but you didn't understand. The thing I understand is like Friday night lights, which is like my favorite shop, Like that's my That's the extent to which I understand football. I'm sorry, but you know, I think that athletes are so inspiring to me, and I feel like what they accomplish and their kind of like path in life is so much like the path of an artist, and I'm used to interviewing artists and entertainers and performers and writers and stuff like that.
And I had one incredible.
Triathlete on the show, but she ended up writing and producing this movie, right, so we had that in common.
Like I honestly, I'm going.
To interview you as though you are like an artist. Let's start with a little bit of history.
Okay. First of all, you grew up where.
So I grew up in Pascatoy, New Jersey, actually right where Rutgers University is located.
Right, and you went to school and you eventually became like this incredible athlete in college.
Is that right?
Well, so a little bit a little bit more back forward to that. I played football, you know.
Growing up.
But really I got a scholarship because I lucked up and went to a camp in which I like competed against a bunch of receivers, right right. I get a scholarship to go to Ohio State. And it's really there that I really start to look at professionals. I didn't think I was. I didn't have dreams of being in the NFL. I didn't have dreams of play in college football. I liked playing ball, and I was just kind of competing and see where it took me.
And it took me quite a way.
But you know, the thing I'm so interested in about this trajectory is like, because for outsiders, like to me, you don't come across as an outsider. You come in as a full insider. Like you're fine looking, you're tall, you have this gorgeous body, you play football, women's swoon, men's swoon? How is it different? Like did you fix your teeth? It's like, are your teeth because you have gorgeous teeth.
I did have a gap that I closed.
Right, Okay, I like to be perfect trying.
To ask you.
I think that's what exactly.
My whole book is literally about debunking that image that's usually what we see out of athletes, and that's usually never the case.
You know.
I opened up the book with a story of how I was getting bullied and my grandmother had to push me back outside. She literally locked the door and said, no, go fight this bully, or you can't come in the house. Because like that, that's where I learned my toughness from. It's not macho, you know thing even and even football. I hated football in the beginning. My favorite part of the sport was, you know, you play pop Warn of the Little League. At the end of the game, everybody shakes hands and then it's a race to the concession stand because they give up dogs and little quarter waters. That was my favorite part of the day was the hot dog order. So I win those races all the time because I never got into games.
Right, this is amazing to me.
I don't understand, like, what could they possibly find to bully you about as a little kid.
That's just the neighborhood. You know, it wasn't necessarily a picking on you type of thing. But I grew up in a neighborhood where they were a ton of young boys with brothers, and there was always this rule that if anybody messages with your brother, you gotta go deal with it. It was one of those things where you know, I had to stand up to somebody who was picking on my brother, even though I knew the consequences for me, you know, facing somebody older than me, and my grandmother is the one.
Who had to teach me that lessons.
So right, that's an ongoing, you know thing that's a misnomber as well. You think it's like the macho men, and it's like oftentimes it's the women around those rights who built them up.
Well, talk to me about your grandmother for a minute, because I know she's an important figure in your life. Why was it she who was the one to bolster you and tell you to go? Why wasn't it like your dad or your mom or something or your brother even Well.
I think that's that's where it comes from.
I come from a family that's matriarchy really on both sides. And I even talk about my dad, there are things that I've learned to understand about him, understanding more of my grandmother and how she raised him as a single mother, you know, working and doing things like that, sending him back, giving him the same lessons she gave me with him being an older brother. And then our relationship really grew as I grew up. She was like my biggest fan, you know, went from teaching me lessons to then like cheering me on. You know, if I had issues in college, I needed some money, she was going I call. And then even you know her introducing me to black Greek life and paternities and sororities. That was, you know, a thing I didn't know She's somebody who's into art, who loved to travel, so just even watching her was inspiring. And then obviously she passed due to cancer, and I talk about, you know, the struggles of that being my support and in now losing that in a time of my life where I'm like.
On the biggest stage.
But I do still you know, community and communicate with her pretty pretty frequently.
So she's a big part of my life.
That's amazing to hear because I feel like, honestly, like the whole story about being bullied and being so incredibly influenced by women, right, I feel like men are so much more influenced by women than they will admit. You know, at least men that I like to talk to that aren't you know, bullies themselves, right, that aren't afraid of women, because I think misogyny is the worst.
I think to your point is it's not being afraid of strong wins. I don't even have that luxury. My family is.
Filled with them.
So that's all I've ever known with strong women. You know, my literally my mom, my two aunts, my grandmother, and my cousin.
They call themselves the Committee.
And so nothing happened, nothing happened my family, like unless the committee. So you know, I can't even you know, understand it when when people are afraid of strong women. And now being a girl dad, you know, I understand the importance of raising women who are not afraid to be smart, who are not to be afraid to be ambitious.
So yeah, that's that's just my life.
I have to say. One thing I really admire in talking to you already is that you still have these close relationships in your family.
Is that right?
Yep?
Yeah, because for me not so much, you know, And that's I think a big difference about being outside and inside. Like I don't really speak to my sisters that much because of the gay thing. That's a weird relationship. Whereas you have this family that really cares for you and cherishes you. Outside the family circle, are there people who you feel are really really supportive and really really like greats at such a Yeah.
I think one of my biggest strengths is is the friends I've acquired over my life, and I've been really tight with a lot of them, and we've gone into business and done great things. When you look at my inner circle, it's really people I've known since kindergarten, and my family's very, very supportive. But I even talk about, you know, in my book, dealing with being the only one with this kind of money, being the only one going through this particular experience, right, and how isolating that can be. And so you know, there are people that can relate to that, where nobody and your family and your experience, but then you've got all the responsibility and expectations.
I want to talk to you about that, like just the whole idea of being so famous and the kind of microscope that that puts you under. But before I ask you that, do you have any women friends in your life?
Yeah? So one of my best friends in my entire life, who's my business partner. Talk about her a lot in the book. Her name is Worlanda. We've known each other since literally kindergarten. Her daughters are my god kids, and you know, we've been tight. Her husband, Joe is part of the family now and we've kind of been on this journey literally our entire lives. And if you look at the rest of my circle, I've got India, who's my manager right over a decade.
Is that common? Is it common to have female managers? In the sport.
No, No, I don't think it is most of the time, especially not independent ones.
And so you know, for me it was important though.
I always found that black women, especially ones who are your friends and know who you are and are capable, will look out for you, you know, and are trying to get your best interests.
And so what I've tried to do is align my interest.
With theirs, and instead of paying you know, somebody twenty percent who works for an agency that's not in my best interests, I can pay you the same right, and we can build this together.
That's always my philosophy.
And I found that the women around me have been the most qualified and have been the strongest.
Right, incredible. Okay, so let's talk a little bit more about the history. So draft pick, can you explain to me what the hell because I see on television people freaking out.
What is it?
Well, essentially, every year you've got you know, guys that graduate out of college or leave college that want to go pro.
So each team gets seven picks.
Essentially because there's a whole college football scene and all the scouts are watching.
Yeah, college football program is just a theater program to the NFL, so they weed out all of the weaker ones and pluck out the ones that they think are going to be the best. And now they go through an evaluation process. All thirty two teams get seven picks. Wow, and then there you go.
Right?
Got it?
So you got picked at some point, right? And you were picked by Saint Louis.
Or were you picked up by New Orleans Saints?
The New Orleans Saints?
Right?
All right? Did you end up finishing college?
I actually had the opportunity to leave college early, and I decided to stay at Ohio State for another year. I wanted to get my degree, and honestly, all I was having too much fun. I thoroughly enjoyed my college experience, did you And I knew the NFL just it felt like it was going to be business when I got there, until I wanted to appreciate the last bit of kind of amateurism of the game, which I did, and I'm glad I did you know? It was one of those things I got to the league, I felt more prepared for the situation outside of.
Sports, right, Besides the sports you played in college, did you find that your college education prepared you for life in some particular way?
Not necessarily the things I learned in class. No more so. No, never I did to davigate amongst you know, people, how to network, how to you know, collaborate those things. I think it definitely helped, you know, get you some skills to do that. But the majority of things I learned was through the game of football, of course, and then of.
Course, you know, and being in the locker room and being in business meetings and being on the field and traveling and all that. I mean, because I remember that too. I remember I went to design school and I didn't know what the hell I mean, Like, I learned stuff like, but it was not the same when you go out into the real world is when you kind of learn what it's all about. Right, And then you played at that team and then you switched teams, Like, what, how many teams have you played on?
Only in your career?
I've been only too, unfortunately, Yeah, only two.
I went.
I started with the Saints and then that contract ended and I was pretty much unemployed, and then the Eagle signed me. I was there for six years and then double back to the Saints for my last two seasons.
Right, yeah, tell me about that, because I wonder how you program yourself. Right, you are this person who like is so devoted to the Saints, right, and then you go play for the Eagles because you're making more money, or they give you a better position, or it's just better for Malcolm Jenkins to go there?
What's that like?
And then you kind of have to finally admit, no, no, you know what it's about the Saints.
I started with the Saints. Tell me about that a little bit.
Yeah, I think people don't really talk about that much, you know, the psyche, what happens to the psyche in.
Different locker rooms.
It feels almost like when you're a new kid at school or changing jobs and all of a sudden, you know, you have to come into the way people do things, and it's always awkward going back to the job that firs you before.
Oh really, I was imagining it would be like this fabulous like homecoming where they'd have like, you know, cheerleaders with pompoms, like welcome back Malcolm.
You know, I do think that's that's kind of how it felt. But internally, as the one, you almost feel a little jaded, like, I know, not to believe too hard and all it is right, You wow yourself to buy back into like, Okay, yeah, we're family, it's team because there's this constant tension as an athlete where especially a professional one, where everything you do in the team sport is about the team. First, you try to humble yourself and prioritize the team, but at the same time you have to manage your body and its ability to perform. So right, you know, you have to make decisions if you're healthy or not. You have to make decisions about your contract and if you're getting compensated the way you want to. And so there's this this cross between business and family that, depending on the situation, can change.
When you return to the Saints, was it a different organization because a lot of times that happens, like people move and everybody moves, and all of a sudden, it's like a whole new was that there.
It was a lot of change since I had been there it was like six years, but a lot of the core guys will still there.
Sean Payton, who's the head coach, was there.
Drew Brees was still there, and a few guys Cam Jordan, a few other players that I played with were still there. So there was some familiar faces and it didn't take long to get back into it, but it did take a conscious effort for me to say, like, Okay, this one it's not the same team that I'm used to, so I've got to give this new situation some space to breathe. But also they have to realize that I'm not the same me who was here before. Like I've been gone and I come back a different person. And so there was like a little you know, like trying of the jigsaw a little bit.
Okay, so you are a massively successful athlete, right, You've won what is that thing called you want to win the super Bowl?
Yeah?
Exactly, I mean it. You see what I'm saying, Like I.
Would have said the World Series, because that's why. But you won what one super Bowl or two super Bowl? Two super Bowls?
Right?
And I think it was when you were a rookie, Right, you were a rookie the first time. Was there a failure or a setback that you learned from plenty?
I think my whole book is literally about what winners won't tell you, and all it is is the seventh But no, I think one of the things that I think is a common thread that I've had to do throughout my whole life. And I think it's something that most of us have to do and sometimes get challenged with, is reinventing you know yourself right either through you know you've tried something and you fail, and you either can sit there and rest here or you can adjust. You know. Sometimes we have to grow towards something. Sometimes we have to grow away from habits. And I think for me having to change positions. In my mind, I thought I was going to be a corner, which is the best athlete.
On the field.
He gets the most on the defense, He's got the most bravado and swagger. I'm like, I want to be that guy. And having to hear everyone tell me that now you're not good enough to do that, and then actually, wow, this changed, you know. I had to sit in that like, okay what they said, is it true? I'm still battling that, But it's like, you know what, I can make the best out of the situation I have while I keep preparing for other opportunities. And so even though I was playing out of position for a couple of years, I had continued to work on my craft for my own time, and by the time I got to another situation and that opportunity presenting itself for me to play like the position that I wanted.
My career flourished.
So it's just one of those things where you got to stay patient and take those setbacks. You got to be humble enough to just stay in the moment and understand that you know, life ebbs and flows you when you reap and just you know, understand what season you're in.
This is unbelievable to me because when I hear that, I feel there are so many similarities between everyone's life and also the similarities between making art or something, or making a show or making anything that anyone does. Really, there are so many similarities. Talk to me about that for a minute. Like discipline and inspiration, what do they mean to you as an athlete?
I think you know, discipline I think is the most important thing out of anything. Inspiration comes easy with sports. Right we're in front of a lot of people. You're going to be inspired to give your best when you there's one hundred thousand people in the crowd, it paid a lot of money, you look cool. It's a lot to be inspired. I get inspired by a failure or somebody telling me I can't do something adversity inspires me to fight back. But when inspiration is dead, because that's usually like a peak.
When it's dead, the only thing you have then is discipline.
When nobody's watching you, you know, are you still putting in your time when you fail and people aren't saying you're good? Are you still putting in your time when you're winning and you're successful and everybody's saying that you're the best? Are you still putting in the time? And then you realize that, like discipline is. We love the motivational peaks or they give us the boot, but you don't live there. You kind of try to live in the middle where you're not high, you're low. You're focused on the process, right, and wow, performance.
Is just it's just the expiration.
It's the manifestation of the process, and you're just continuing to try and try and get.
I have a question for you.
This is like completely personal, but and if you don't want to answer, you are you religious?
So I am not anymore. I talk about my my battles with religion. And I went from you know, filling out a form in school and it tells you, you know, what religion are you?
And like you know what's this. You're Christian? Duh, right, like.
Implicity?
Yeah yeah, But then but I talk about how closely religion is intertwined with sports, especially when you up the ranks.
But just my my.
Love for history and science and the world just really conflicts with organized religion. So I'm at a place where I just I accept that there is a creator of all of this, but that I can find all those messages in the things that are created, so I can look in nature and get the message. I can look in relationships with people and see the patterns because it's all around us. So I've put down kind of the organized religions and really just focused on what the creator has created, right.
Your own spirituality, your own belief in the creator. And you don't like, well, because you don't really make touchdowns as a safety you stop people from making.
Touchdowns right every now and then, you know, I had to. I was fortunate enough to score eight touchdowns in my career, so you know, come up, well you can, you know, you can make it.
That sounds so little to me. Eight touchdowns like that sounds like fucking nothing. Right, Sorry, but wait a minute, but you don't do that, like you know that kiss to God thing that like a lot of athletes do when they make a score, when they make a goal, because that's annoying.
I have to say.
It's like it doesn't make me love an athlete any less, but like, really, God, really you're bringing God into this.
There was there was a time where I was one of those athletes, like for sure, where I truly believed like if I, you know, did anything wrong that week, I might have watched too much pouring that week and it was like, oh, have my game is all, Oh my god, I knew it.
Wow, I love it.
Can I ask you a really really outside, outside, outside question, because I know that there are certain gay football players, right I know that some of them have come out.
Are there more than we know about? Are there less? What do we think?
I'm not sure.
I think I think, you know, my time in the league, I came in in two thousand and nine and twenty twenty three, I think the conversation around it is completely turned around, and I'm completely yeah. But I do think that there's still probably probably you know, it's not the safest environment to come out in workly, you know, And I don't think it's a thing where you know, the locker rooms will be unaccepted, especially in this environment. But I just think it's you know, coming through football, you know, processes and programs where everybody's you know, built to be this hyper masculine person.
Yes, you know, it.
Wouldn't be surprising if there are you know, more guy's high rights than we know. But hopefully, you know, the environment is changing, the conversation is changing enough where those type of things don't even matter.
They don't matter.
I mean, hopefully in the next twenty years it won't matter so much. And in the meantime, you know, because even on Ted Lastso did you watch that show Ted Last? So I know it's not about this kind of football, it's about that kind of football, But there was that whole kind of subplot about the gay player and now he came out. It was really beautiful. And I know it's a tiny, tiny, little fraction of your experience of the game, but to me, it's something like that's important. And by the way, like you know, I can't think of one baseball player that has actually come out. It's funny that football players come out, whereas like baseball play. Can you think of one gay baseball player? I can't think of one.
No, how about that?
Okay, Sorry, I didn't mean to divert this to be completely about me, But I'm going to.
Get back into this now.
The idea of playing the game of football, which is not the least violent game. Right, you are very prone to injuries, more than baseball, more than any particular sport, more than tennis, more than anything. How do you justify this kind of violence in that game?
Yeah, you don't justify it.
No, you don't justify it. It just is what it is.
It's one of those games where it is violent, I think, and the more you try to get away from that, the more confusing the experience is. Right, but it is a very island game, and you know, everybody who plays, one hundred percent of players will get hurt at some point.
And that's it. That's it. You will get hurt.
But I kept getting hurt, like year and a year, I was just missing a few games. I kept getting bad pinsons in my nerves and my neck. And it was because I was trying to like convince myself to play this like gladiator sport and punish people. And then I changed the way that I played the game and I stopped trying to hurt people, and I stopped getting hurt.
So it was It's one of those games where it is.
Because of what like, because you all of a sudden were strategizing differently as summer, you approach it different.
So instead of just throwing my body into you, I might just grab your legs and wrap and roll.
And that's that's way easier and more effective.
You know, I can do it more and more, and I can I can last longer as opposed to trying to punish you.
Now, the crowd might not like it, but.
Ah see doesn't get to.
Say, yeah, you see what I'm saying.
They like the violence, which which is something you know.
It's like think about how people loved to watch boxing, thinking about how people loved to watch Roman Gladiators or whatever that was. But this idea of your changing your strategy was that because the game changed and people were more aware of the violence. It is because you just got older and you got smarter.
I think I got older and got smarter. I saw Seattle. The Seahawks were a team I was watching. They had the Legion of Boom and they were winning Super Bowls, and I used to study how their secondary and how they would tackle, and they were so efficient at getting people on the ground, and they hit people. They were physical, but they were like really good at just getting people to the ground. And one off season I learned that they were using a rugby style tackle that was so much more efficient, right, wow, instead of what I've been taught my entire life and kept your head and neck out of the tackle so you didn't get the concussions or the stingers that I was dealing with. And so I changed my style, and then not only was I more effective at tackling, but I lasted longer. I went eight straight season and without missing a game, which is like unheard of.
That is amazing. Like even I think that's amazing. Okay, like I who knows nothing about the game. But speaking of the game itself and speaking of your time in the NSL, I look at the entertainment business, and I look at the fashion business, and it's changed a lot, you know, and there are things I miss about it, and there are things I wish I could, you know, bring back, et cetera. Do you look at the business and go, yeah, when I was a kid, it was just different, and now has it changed?
You know, I've been out of now the sport for a year and a half and it feels like it's almost unrecognizable, like right, And I think I've been comfortable with like letting it go, understanding I had my moment in influencing where the sport went, where my team went, where the fan bases went.
How so how has it moved on, Darling, I've moved on, you know, you know, right, So it's like my time as an athlete is over with a lot of us struggle and because here's the mind, you know, game that you have to deal with is you've been an athlete your whole life and then you retire or they you're out of the league and you're no longer an athlete if you're not on the team, you know, are you an athlete?
And people do struggle with that feeling like being now an outsider of course, and you know, so for me, it's it's been like trying to embrace that idea, like, yeah, these are new names, there's records will be broken.
New champions. I had my time and I'm.
Grateful for that, and then now it's like it's time for me to figure out how to do something else in another space. And I think like you talked about art and sports, and I've been collecting art over the last year and a half, and I see there is this connection, or at least this parallel between artists and athletes reinventing of oneself. Especially after you've made, let's say, a masterpiece. You've made like the work that has put you on the map. You want to stay in that pocket, right, you want to you know, well on it, but really that artist for the people like you push that out and now you've got to do it again and do it better, and so there's a reinvention that you have to do constantly. And I think, you know, we don't really see that as athletes. We see athletes as this one thing for the rest of their lives, right, And it's really not the case.
But I feel like that's because athletes see themselves as that. You know.
It's like I know a lot of dancers.
I like three quarters of my friends are ballet dancers or modern dancers, and they just never leave the subject of dance. Like they stop dancing at a certain crucial point in their lives, not unlike yourself, right, Like they stop very young and they become teachers and they become repetatory.
You know, they become these.
People who go to the show every night, you know, whatever it is, and you don't want to do any kind of coaching or anything to do with.
I have those urges, but I think those things feel safe to me, So I'm trying to stay away from the knee jerk reaction to go to them. And I think the struggle is because what mixed athletes and entertainers. I think that urge so strong is because we are introduced to these ideas, that identities so much earlier than everybody else. Is like, right, at what point in your life are grown adults, you know, hovering around your talent? You know, I've like I've been playing two years old. I've been an athlete, an athlete, athlete, athlete, so now you know, I'm in my mid thirties and it's like, well what am I now? So for me, luckily that's author business.
Oh yeah, and you're having no problem kind of transitioning.
A lot of a lot of guys don't have or haven't set up those those other lanes of their own identity. I think that's that's really where I hope kind of like my story, you know, showcases or you know, clears the path forwards for athletes to look differently followed the model of like a Lebron.
Michael Bennett, who is now a full time artist.
I find even like Naniassima, he played corner for the Raiders back in the day.
I have never heard that name before in my life.
Okay, and he starred in Sylvie's Love.
My favorite movies. It was a cornerback that I was trying to be like.
And so I'm like, we have to change kind of the model athletes to who we champion.
And so for me, I like the champion.
The Ernie Barneses of the world, guys who played in the NFL and became phenomenal artists, exactly expected in their fields outside of sports.
All right, so now let's go back for a minute. You have these amazing opportunities because you're famous, right and because you made some nice money, and so you have a kind of autonomy. Without getting too maudlin, were their drawbacks to being famous.
Anybody who is close to me knows I don't enjoy being famous.
I'm not.
Introverted person. I don't really I get drained by being around people, especially people I don't know. So yes, being recognized everywhere you go, and yeah, you know, I spend a lot of time with people, Like we'll do my book signings. Afterwards, I'll talk to every single person in the room. That's just who I am.
But that does you're crazy, but it is crazy.
It is exhausting, you know, like from an energetic standpoint.
So you know, it has its drawbacks, but obviously it's afforded me, you know, opportunities that most of the time I wouldn't have had. But it also is something that you've got to fight against because people will give you opportunities, but certain opportunities, right, Like they'll respect you for your celebrity, but not for.
Your intelligence or your creativity.
And so there is a little bit of, you know, having to block some of those opportunities because of their dead ends. Right They're like, we'll just keep you in this badly box and you can endure that. Right. Oh God, don't sit on our board, you know, like, don't, oh.
Darlings, talk to me about that, talk to me about type casting. It's such a bore, you know, how people just want you to be one thing for the rest of your life, you know. And then I think about when I met my husband Arnold right, I was walking down the street walking my dog and we you know, kind of made eye contact and we met right and immediately I could sense that he was not this creepy kind of you know, fan, who wanted to meet me and who wanted to whatever he wanted to do. So as a single guy, is it more more difficult or less difficult to meet women?
Well, I think you know where I'm at, having like met someone been married, had two kids and now divorce and as a single father, you I was like, oh, the next, the next one. You know, I've got to redo my evaluation process, you know, right right, because time is of the essence, so right now, you know, it's one of those things I don't give time to people that don't see the potential in and and really, you know, for me, I had to define what that looks like, what am I valuing right now? And that took some time. I had to do that by myself and spend you know, some time soul searching. But yeah, dating is a dating is a little weird nowadays. On this side of things. You got the you know, the family dynamics that are right, and then you've got a lot of women want to build their families that their own.
And and by the way, you're so young for someone who retired, you're retired rather young, let's face it, the right word.
Yeah, I just know it's not I'm sorry, that's what That's.
What everybody uses. But to your point, I'm thirty five, you know I'm not. That's that's playing golf every day.
Yeah, like, even as an injured athlete, you still have a good ten years if you wanted to play the game.
And I know that.
I was no.
And that's the thing.
When I turned thirty, they started calling me o g like that. When you're thirty, you're old.
Okay, but now so but you're old and you're famous and now you're dating and you have kids?
Right, what is that? Like? How do you justify kids and fame?
Oh?
Does that come into it? How does that affect?
My kids?
Don't even know half of it. They ask me all the time like that, why is everybody like you, Chris about any of it?
But you know, I keep it that way. We're really like simple.
When I have my girls, I usually have them two weeks out of the month, so like a fifty to fifty kind of custody thing and uh huh, just me and him. I'm taking them to school, picking them up. We've got the soccer activities.
And you shield them from stuff.
I mean, do you ever get hounded by paparazzi or I mean, does that ever happen?
Do you know?
The good thing is like here in New Orleans, people are chill, like you know, people will come over and maybe take a picture and say hello and things of that nature. But no one's really like hounding you. It's not a situation where I ever felt like, you know, my kids are affected and Philly.
Philly is the same way.
So you know, it's it's just enough where they know, like, hey, Dad's important, but not I'm not.
Michael Jackson, got it.
So listen, I personally am obsessed with obituaries. That's the first thing I read every single morning, and I think about my obituary all the time.
Do you do you think about that?
Not my obituary, but I do think about you know, what I'm.
Leaving behind, and yeah, what people with legacy?
Right?
Yeah?
Well, if you if you were to write your own obituary, what would it say?
What would the headline be? Do you have any ideas about that? Or what.
At this point in time. It would be.
At this point in time, right, because I think of that all the time. Like, if I were to drop dead tomorrow, I would hate my obituary, like I still haven't really accomplished what I want to be remembered for.
Yeah, it would be cut short for sure. But I think where I am now is just that, like life is a piece of art. It's like you have to be intentional with every step. That's where I'm at with my life, where you feel like the more I learn about art, you'll see like abstraction and you'll be like, man, I could do that when you realize that, no, every stroke, every you know, meticulous piece was there with intention, even if it was slopped on there, there was neat to that. It's like a lot of us go through life like that, Like I like, we just passed through the details, and it's like, no, make every mark with intention, take every step with intention, and hopefully my obituary when somebody's writing it, you know, has that at its core.
I love that.
And now this is a question that I think I sort of saved to the end to talk to you about because I think it's the most relevant question for you out of all of them, which is about like what you're going to do, what your future holds, because I think that you are extremely philanthropic, you're extremely civil minded, but as a person, like what do you really want to get out of life that you haven't gotten?
Like, where are you going, Darling? Tell me where you're going?
Yeah, I think I think it's there is no destination.
I think it's an expanding like I don't want to go in a straight line. I want to just continue to widen. And so what that looks like is I loved writing this book, writing any writing. I started a production company a couple of years ago. I listened to media. We've already got documentaries there. So storytelling and teaching are really where what I do the most of. Even in football, I'm always like teaching the young guys or talking with coaches. So for me, it's about like storytelling and giving information in ways that are digestible.
And are different.
So whether that's art, music, whether it's you know, talking politics or talking financial literacy, there's so much, so many things that I've learned through my experience, and I know that my experience can be taught and is needed to be you know, taught to people behind me. So it's not only my job to teach, but it's also my job to live these experiences.
So you'll see a little bit of both of that.
Right, Okay, So, like you don't have this dream of being like you know, I don't know what, like Liza Minellius, Like, You're not going to go on stage and become like a fabulous entertainer, or you're not going to become like some great writer. You're not going to become like Maya Angelou and write like this fabulous tome of poetry.
Maybe I don't know if I don't know about Maya Angelou, but I do think Manelli. But I am a person. I am a person that no matter what it is I'm doing, I'm it's going to be one hundred percent. So if it's the next book, it's going to be with the attempts of being you know, up there with the greatest. If it's you know, fashion, if it's Philanthroy business, whatever it is, I'm.
Going to go hard at it.
Right But you know, right now I'm at a place where I'm trying to figure out exactly where that is I see.
Okay, Well, Darling, What would you like to promote on this podcast.
Yeah, I just want people to read the book What Winners Won't Tell You. You can go When Winners Won'tell You dot com to see. We're still doing events around the country, doing some fireside chats and book signings.
You can get your book there.
Oh look, someone's coming. She's excited.
That's my dog. I talk about her in the book.
I have a dog.
I'm surprised that the dog hasn't started barking sooner.
All right, Well, you're a doll. Thank you so much.
I appreciate you.
So that conversation, I thought was so incredible because I kind of stuck to this idea that I had originally, which was like, you know, okay, so you know nothing about football, approach him as though he's some kind of artist or entertainer, and the line of questioning sort of stayed within that realm. And then at some point I asked him about discipline and inspiration and he just kind of grasped onto that and gave us such an incredible, incredible summation and kind of thesis about those words and how they kind of run through everybody's life, whether you're a certified public accountant or an artist or an athlete. You know, it was very, very like incredibly gratifying from me, and I'm only glad that you all were with me to hear all of that and to witness that.
Thank you for listening, darlings.
If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and tell someone, Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know.
Okay, and be sure to rate the show. I love rating stuff.
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I Am Isaac MSRADI. This is Isaac Misrahi.
Thank you, I love you, and I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by me Isaac Musrahi, Hello Isaac, is produced by Robin Geltenbein. The senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti. Vis Executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, Carral Welker and Nathan Kloke at Imagine Audio, Production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wilson. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katmak and I AM Entertainment