Hi, I'm Conrad Marceau and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to season six of Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Millie Millgate, the CEO of Music Australia. Millgate knows the industry back to front. Having started out booking acts for Sydney pubs, then working in artist management before running the music export initiative Sounds Australia, she's now the inaugural director of Music Australia, established by the federal government two years ago to support our contemporary music scene. It's an interesting time to be in the role given the concerns percolating in the local music industry. Festivals have been paused or cancelled. Live music venues are struggling. There were just five Aussie songs in the Aria's Top 100 for 2024 and Triple J's Hottest 100 only a few weeks ago had its lowest number of local artists since 1996. And hosting this conversation about everything from the future of festivals to where the next Kid Laroi or G flip will come from, is Sydney Morning Herald's senior writer, Garry Maddox.

Hi, I'm Conrad Marceau and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to season six of Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Millie Millgate, the CEO of Music Australia. Millgate knows the industry back to front. Having started out booking acts for Sydney pubs, then working in artist management before running the music export initiative Sounds Australia, she's now the inaugural director of Music Australia, established by the federal government two years ago to support our contemporary music scene. It's an interesting time to be in the role given the concerns percolating in the local music industry. Festivals have been paused or cancelled. Live music venues are struggling. There were just five Aussie songs in the Aria's Top 100 for 2024 and Triple J's Hottest 100 only a few weeks ago had its lowest number of local artists since 1996. And hosting this conversation about everything from the future of festivals to where the next Kid Laroi or G flip will come from, is Sydney Morning Herald's senior writer, Garry Maddox.

Thanks, Conrad. And welcome, Emily. Can I start by asking you about yourself? Where did you grow up? What sort of family was it, and were you a musical kid?

Thanks, Conrad. And welcome, Emily. Can I start by asking you about yourself? Where did you grow up? What sort of family was it, and were you a musical kid?

Uh, I wasn't a musical kid. I grew up in Davidson, which is near Frenchs Forest. Uh, mum, dad and a younger brother. Mum had visions, I think, of both my brother and I playing the piano to her in her senior year. So we were both, uh, introduced to music through Yamaha School of School of Music, which is interesting because you really learn theory and chords. You don't tend to really learn to be a great performer. So I got a little bit of the basics and was quite, you know, okay with it, but it wasn't really, to be honest, a passion in that respect. So yeah, you know, family trips, listening to all the stuff Mum and Dad listen to, you know, lots of Paul Simon and the Beatles and but I never was really like, I do believe a lot of my peers and a lot of people that find themselves in the music industry are diehard music fans, or they are musicians that have now found another path. But I definitely have come of it quite differently.

Uh, I wasn't a musical kid. I grew up in Davidson, which is near Frenchs Forest. Uh, mum, dad and a younger brother. Mum had visions, I think, of both my brother and I playing the piano to her in her senior year. So we were both, uh, introduced to music through Yamaha School of School of Music, which is interesting because you really learn theory and chords. You don't tend to really learn to be a great performer. So I got a little bit of the basics and was quite, you know, okay with it, but it wasn't really, to be honest, a passion in that respect. So yeah, you know, family trips, listening to all the stuff Mum and Dad listen to, you know, lots of Paul Simon and the Beatles and but I never was really like, I do believe a lot of my peers and a lot of people that find themselves in the music industry are diehard music fans, or they are musicians that have now found another path. But I definitely have come of it quite differently.

You started working in music quite early on. Yeah, Macquarie Uni Events Management. Then you did some booking for the Annandale and Hopetoun, two famous music hotels. Tell us a bit about those jobs and what you learned from them.

You started working in music quite early on. Yeah, Macquarie Uni Events Management. Then you did some booking for the Annandale and Hopetoun, two famous music hotels. Tell us a bit about those jobs and what you learned from them.

Yeah, I mean I, I guess coming into music, it was more event side that I was in, and it wasn't until I started to really just see when you were booking music at a university, you know, for every single student there was on campus, there was a taste. And so that was just such a really wonderful playground to be able to explore and to, to program, um, you know, all kinds of different music. You know, we did some of the first hip hop out there and, you know, it was about I just got such a thrill of seeing people's reactions to new music they hadn't seen, and being able to bring some of the more established artists in, uh, gosh, I learned a lot booking live venues. I mean, it was absolutely about bums on seats, to be frank. You know, you could have all your favorite, you know, your own personal favorites. But the publicans I were working for absolutely needed people to walk into that building and drink beer and alcohol. And to be honest, that, you know, the relationship between alcohol and music still very synonymous and kind of, in a way, some of the problems we're seeing lives there as well. But I think, you know, booking a place like the Hopetoun. It again every single night we would have, you know, different music from punk to shoegaze to indie folk to, as I said, some of the earlier hip hop stuff. And the audience became the room, if you know what I mean. Like, it wasn't only a certain style, like it just adapted. And yeah, I got such a really great introduction to all the different players in the music industry. I guess all the different booking agents, all the different labels were doing different things. So I really feel blessed that I had such a grounding in those really grassroots live music venues, which is so key now and something that, you know, Covid absolutely destroyed live music overnight. And I think we're still recovering. We're absolutely still recovering. But those communities that were built out of the grassroots were so key and important. I think we need to really revisit what they offer and what they bring.

Yeah, I mean I, I guess coming into music, it was more event side that I was in, and it wasn't until I started to really just see when you were booking music at a university, you know, for every single student there was on campus, there was a taste. And so that was just such a really wonderful playground to be able to explore and to, to program, um, you know, all kinds of different music. You know, we did some of the first hip hop out there and, you know, it was about I just got such a thrill of seeing people's reactions to new music they hadn't seen, and being able to bring some of the more established artists in, uh, gosh, I learned a lot booking live venues. I mean, it was absolutely about bums on seats, to be frank. You know, you could have all your favorite, you know, your own personal favorites. But the publicans I were working for absolutely needed people to walk into that building and drink beer and alcohol. And to be honest, that, you know, the relationship between alcohol and music still very synonymous and kind of, in a way, some of the problems we're seeing lives there as well. But I think, you know, booking a place like the Hopetoun. It again every single night we would have, you know, different music from punk to shoegaze to indie folk to, as I said, some of the earlier hip hop stuff. And the audience became the room, if you know what I mean. Like, it wasn't only a certain style, like it just adapted. And yeah, I got such a really great introduction to all the different players in the music industry. I guess all the different booking agents, all the different labels were doing different things. So I really feel blessed that I had such a grounding in those really grassroots live music venues, which is so key now and something that, you know, Covid absolutely destroyed live music overnight. And I think we're still recovering. We're absolutely still recovering. But those communities that were built out of the grassroots were so key and important. I think we need to really revisit what they offer and what they bring.

Okay. Tell us about your time managing bands.

Okay. Tell us about your time managing bands.

Yeah. Um, I think for the first few years when I was probably what I, you know, absolutely was technically managing, I never could say I was a manager. You know, I was helping out, you know, I had some mates in bands. I think most managers start that way, you know, you're just helping out some friends. Uh, I think today the role of the manager is so all encompassing. And you are really becoming, you know, a specialist in so many different areas. Uh, I love that you could work with a very small team. And there was a lot of us against the world feeling to it. But, you know, when things got going, um, you know, that managerial role is so instrumental. Uh, and again, I think in terms of the grounding for the role that I'm in now, management, you couldn't have asked for a better decade of experience. You know, a lot of trial and error. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, I think for the first few years when I was probably what I, you know, absolutely was technically managing, I never could say I was a manager. You know, I was helping out, you know, I had some mates in bands. I think most managers start that way, you know, you're just helping out some friends. Uh, I think today the role of the manager is so all encompassing. And you are really becoming, you know, a specialist in so many different areas. Uh, I love that you could work with a very small team. And there was a lot of us against the world feeling to it. But, you know, when things got going, um, you know, that managerial role is so instrumental. Uh, and again, I think in terms of the grounding for the role that I'm in now, management, you couldn't have asked for a better decade of experience. You know, a lot of trial and error. Yeah.

Tell us about what bands they were and and how they performed. How easy or hard was it to get a break for them?

Tell us about what bands they were and and how they performed. How easy or hard was it to get a break for them?

Uh, well, look at the time. Look, my my dealings with artists were indie bands for people that may know them Bluebottle, Kiss the Camels, Ramona Stone, um, and they yeah, they definitely were showing progress and going through what the term. So we're talking late 90s, early 2000 was, was the time I was really sort of in the deep of management, but there was some pretty clear pathways that were pretty, um, you know, you knew you had to try and get some radio and that that existed, whether you know, all the really great community radio stations that were there and still are today, you know, obviously at the time, triple J and national radio was really key to allow you to start doing more and more touring and certainly touring in to the regions. And then, you know, the real goal of some commercial radio. Um, and then you sort of parlayed that and married it with trying to get, you know, building your shows, you know, start with the first show, bring some, you know, it's always friends and family. Hopefully it's good enough that you bring more people. You get a support slot and you sort of sort of build build that way. But there was a lot, I think, clearer pathways. There was a lot more music. Australian music media support, whether that was print media, um, as well as, you know, the street press, the free street press, every day, you knew what was going on, you knew what was happening, um, where. So yeah, quite a different landscape to what we're seeing now.

Uh, well, look at the time. Look, my my dealings with artists were indie bands for people that may know them Bluebottle, Kiss the Camels, Ramona Stone, um, and they yeah, they definitely were showing progress and going through what the term. So we're talking late 90s, early 2000 was, was the time I was really sort of in the deep of management, but there was some pretty clear pathways that were pretty, um, you know, you knew you had to try and get some radio and that that existed, whether you know, all the really great community radio stations that were there and still are today, you know, obviously at the time, triple J and national radio was really key to allow you to start doing more and more touring and certainly touring in to the regions. And then, you know, the real goal of some commercial radio. Um, and then you sort of parlayed that and married it with trying to get, you know, building your shows, you know, start with the first show, bring some, you know, it's always friends and family. Hopefully it's good enough that you bring more people. You get a support slot and you sort of sort of build build that way. But there was a lot, I think, clearer pathways. There was a lot more music. Australian music media support, whether that was print media, um, as well as, you know, the street press, the free street press, every day, you knew what was going on, you knew what was happening, um, where. So yeah, quite a different landscape to what we're seeing now.

You ran Sounds Australia, the national music export Initiative. How successful were you in getting Australian artists on the world stage?

You ran Sounds Australia, the national music export Initiative. How successful were you in getting Australian artists on the world stage?

Oh, look, I think over that time we definitely saw an increase with without Question and the way and why sounds Australia was set up was they started to be this idea of a showcase conference event. So you might have heard of things like South by Southwest, there's The Great Escape in the UK, a lot of genre events. So there's classical next for contemporary classical Jazzahead Americana, we were able to provide opportunities for Australian artists to a be seen more so get more chance to play. You often only got one showcase as part of the offer. As an official artist, we were we were able to produce a number of showcases so you could be seen by the industry and really importantly, was creating networking events that were going to put your managers in front of key labels or key promoters or key festivals. So, I mean, there are thousands of examples of success that artists have had that we know came from introductions, from those initial, um, emerging events. But I think over the years it's it's been going for 15 years now. And there's, you know, if you look at artists like flume, Vance Joy, Rufus Du Sol, King Gizzard, um, Courtney Barnett, all of their very first shows were on those those stages.

Oh, look, I think over that time we definitely saw an increase with without Question and the way and why sounds Australia was set up was they started to be this idea of a showcase conference event. So you might have heard of things like South by Southwest, there's The Great Escape in the UK, a lot of genre events. So there's classical next for contemporary classical Jazzahead Americana, we were able to provide opportunities for Australian artists to a be seen more so get more chance to play. You often only got one showcase as part of the offer. As an official artist, we were we were able to produce a number of showcases so you could be seen by the industry and really importantly, was creating networking events that were going to put your managers in front of key labels or key promoters or key festivals. So, I mean, there are thousands of examples of success that artists have had that we know came from introductions, from those initial, um, emerging events. But I think over the years it's it's been going for 15 years now. And there's, you know, if you look at artists like flume, Vance Joy, Rufus Du Sol, King Gizzard, um, Courtney Barnett, all of their very first shows were on those those stages.

Okay. How much can you strategize to get success internationally, and how much is it just down to having the right song that becomes a hit at the right time?

Okay. How much can you strategize to get success internationally, and how much is it just down to having the right song that becomes a hit at the right time?

It's look, without question, the song has to play such an important role. I think, you know, the valuing of the IP and the creation of the song needs constant development, and it really You're not going to go too far without great songs, but there's a lot that goes around it. And I think what Australian artists need to understand and what they're dealing with is they are competing globally. You know, it used to be that it would be whatever Australian releases were out that week, you'd be up against those acts. And then, you know, when you're sort of building territory by territory, you know, before streaming, you're only competing with what's being released in Australia now. From the minute you release your first song, you're global, you're exporting from the first song you have on Spotify and you're competing with. I think the statistic was that in every single day now, like the 120,000 songs that are released, was the total amount released in the year 1989. So you're looking at 43 million tracks a year. So the idea of how you compete, how you break through, it's a really big question.

It's look, without question, the song has to play such an important role. I think, you know, the valuing of the IP and the creation of the song needs constant development, and it really You're not going to go too far without great songs, but there's a lot that goes around it. And I think what Australian artists need to understand and what they're dealing with is they are competing globally. You know, it used to be that it would be whatever Australian releases were out that week, you'd be up against those acts. And then, you know, when you're sort of building territory by territory, you know, before streaming, you're only competing with what's being released in Australia now. From the minute you release your first song, you're global, you're exporting from the first song you have on Spotify and you're competing with. I think the statistic was that in every single day now, like the 120,000 songs that are released, was the total amount released in the year 1989. So you're looking at 43 million tracks a year. So the idea of how you compete, how you break through, it's a really big question.

That's a terrifying number.

That's a terrifying number.

It is a terrifying number, I agree.

It is a terrifying number, I agree.

What about young artists? When they start out, they probably think, all right, this is a form of self-expression. I want to create something. I want to play music that a certain group of people respond to. Do they have to think internationally? Wouldn't it be enough for them just to have local success?

What about young artists? When they start out, they probably think, all right, this is a form of self-expression. I want to create something. I want to play music that a certain group of people respond to. Do they have to think internationally? Wouldn't it be enough for them just to have local success?

I don't think look, I think if you're doing it just for your own self enjoyment and a hobbyist, then that's one thing. But if we're really talking in terms of artists that are wanting to break. You can no longer build or sustain a career domestically. It's just it's not physically possible. It used to be that you would record an album, and then you would go out and tour to drive sales to the record. You were earning money from every record sale and it was a physical product. And so the revenue was at a certain level. Now we've got a situation that's almost 180 degree change, where people are constantly putting out singles content. It might not even be a single different kinds of content to grab attention to, then drive you to a show. So that entire idea has changed entirely. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, like you're constantly just you constantly have to be on your social media releasing so people know who you are. But the revenue that's coming in from streaming is really different to what it was in physical sales. So it's taking longer to earn the revenue, but you have to have that presence on the socials. It does seem to have that impact.

I don't think look, I think if you're doing it just for your own self enjoyment and a hobbyist, then that's one thing. But if we're really talking in terms of artists that are wanting to break. You can no longer build or sustain a career domestically. It's just it's not physically possible. It used to be that you would record an album, and then you would go out and tour to drive sales to the record. You were earning money from every record sale and it was a physical product. And so the revenue was at a certain level. Now we've got a situation that's almost 180 degree change, where people are constantly putting out singles content. It might not even be a single different kinds of content to grab attention to, then drive you to a show. So that entire idea has changed entirely. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, like you're constantly just you constantly have to be on your social media releasing so people know who you are. But the revenue that's coming in from streaming is really different to what it was in physical sales. So it's taking longer to earn the revenue, but you have to have that presence on the socials. It does seem to have that impact.

It does seem like TikTok has a particular influence on artists at the moment. Do they have to be on TikTok?

It does seem like TikTok has a particular influence on artists at the moment. Do they have to be on TikTok?

Look, I think artists really the role of an artist has changed so much. You know, it's the simple idea that you can write songs and create. Music is a skill unto itself, and that's amazing. And that should be celebrated and invested in. It's now then artists really do need to take, you know, a lot of responsibility for creating this online presence and profile, because that's the world they're living in. I don't think every artist should be on every platform. I think that's crazy. And we need to really be mindful of mental health and the pressures that that puts on young artists. But I think, you know, it's about testing them out and finding where your audience are and finding what's going to work for you. The frequency that will work for you. But, you know, if you really look at the acts that are, you know, we're not talking established acts that have been able to harness already existing audiences. Brand new acts that are starting out. It really is those that have been able to build these international audiences through online platforms that are having the most success.

Look, I think artists really the role of an artist has changed so much. You know, it's the simple idea that you can write songs and create. Music is a skill unto itself, and that's amazing. And that should be celebrated and invested in. It's now then artists really do need to take, you know, a lot of responsibility for creating this online presence and profile, because that's the world they're living in. I don't think every artist should be on every platform. I think that's crazy. And we need to really be mindful of mental health and the pressures that that puts on young artists. But I think, you know, it's about testing them out and finding where your audience are and finding what's going to work for you. The frequency that will work for you. But, you know, if you really look at the acts that are, you know, we're not talking established acts that have been able to harness already existing audiences. Brand new acts that are starting out. It really is those that have been able to build these international audiences through online platforms that are having the most success.

Splendour in the grass is the latest music festival to either be paused or cancelled. Why do you think festivals are struggling so much and is this a permanent condition?

Splendour in the grass is the latest music festival to either be paused or cancelled. Why do you think festivals are struggling so much and is this a permanent condition?

Look, I don't think it's permanent. I think at Music Australia and with the Creative Australia research team, we've now released two big key pieces of research soundcheck one and soundcheck two. Really looking at what are these drivers and where are the issues? Obviously cost of living. You know, that's not unique to the music industry, but it really and truly has had a huge impact on festivals. Definitely seeing the impacts of insurance. And we're doing a third piece of research into what could a mutuals look like for the industry. But we're also.

Look, I don't think it's permanent. I think at Music Australia and with the Creative Australia research team, we've now released two big key pieces of research soundcheck one and soundcheck two. Really looking at what are these drivers and where are the issues? Obviously cost of living. You know, that's not unique to the music industry, but it really and truly has had a huge impact on festivals. Definitely seeing the impacts of insurance. And we're doing a third piece of research into what could a mutuals look like for the industry. But we're also.

Seeing another form of a better form of insurance.

Seeing another form of a better form of insurance.

Possibly. Yeah. Whether it's going to work, we don't know yet. It's a little bit of a feasibility study, but we're certainly really mindful of that area for festival promoters. Um, the other thing, you know, coming out of the pandemic years is this audience behavior and changes in ticket buying and how they're holding off. You know, people are really waiting to the last minute to buy tickets. Now, that's really hard when you're managing a festival and you need a certain amount to break even before you call it. So I think there's definitely things that we've we've seen, and I think we're starting to see I mean, you know, laneway has sold out beyond the Valley just did some of its biggest numbers today. Party in the park. Party in the paddocks gearing up really well. Like they're a really great success. Stories still happening and we've seen over time there's been, you know, swings and roundabouts with festivals like the Big Day Out like Future like that, that are here and then for various changes and reasons they're not. But I think in many ways, when you look at the splendour in the grass, it does come back to the way people are listening and that personification of listening. So where we used to have, you know, broadcast and everyone was listening to triple J, so if you did a triple J type lineup, everyone was hearing it. We've got a lot more narrowcasting where people are listening to podcasts, they're listening, you know, on their phone and they're listening to what they want when they want it on demand. You know, I think for young people now, the idea of radio, they're going to want like, why are they waiting around hoping that their favourite song comes on when they can just listen? But what comes with that? Personalised listening is also a lot of passive listening, and also algorithms that are not necessarily Putting Australian artists front and centre there.

Possibly. Yeah. Whether it's going to work, we don't know yet. It's a little bit of a feasibility study, but we're certainly really mindful of that area for festival promoters. Um, the other thing, you know, coming out of the pandemic years is this audience behavior and changes in ticket buying and how they're holding off. You know, people are really waiting to the last minute to buy tickets. Now, that's really hard when you're managing a festival and you need a certain amount to break even before you call it. So I think there's definitely things that we've we've seen, and I think we're starting to see I mean, you know, laneway has sold out beyond the Valley just did some of its biggest numbers today. Party in the park. Party in the paddocks gearing up really well. Like they're a really great success. Stories still happening and we've seen over time there's been, you know, swings and roundabouts with festivals like the Big Day Out like Future like that, that are here and then for various changes and reasons they're not. But I think in many ways, when you look at the splendour in the grass, it does come back to the way people are listening and that personification of listening. So where we used to have, you know, broadcast and everyone was listening to triple J, so if you did a triple J type lineup, everyone was hearing it. We've got a lot more narrowcasting where people are listening to podcasts, they're listening, you know, on their phone and they're listening to what they want when they want it on demand. You know, I think for young people now, the idea of radio, they're going to want like, why are they waiting around hoping that their favourite song comes on when they can just listen? But what comes with that? Personalised listening is also a lot of passive listening, and also algorithms that are not necessarily Putting Australian artists front and centre there.

Last year there were just five Australian songs in Aria's top 100, and we've had just had the lowest number of Australian artists in the hottest 100 since 1996. How worried should we be by those dismal numbers?

Last year there were just five Australian songs in Aria's top 100, and we've had just had the lowest number of Australian artists in the hottest 100 since 1996. How worried should we be by those dismal numbers?

Yeah, I think it's a real worry, and I think we've got a lot of, um, dichotomy going on. Australia as a music market is still the 10th biggest music market in the world. We just had the live performance Australia results showed that we have reached record highs in terms of ticket buying and audience numbers, and a lot of that is driven by the growth of contemporary music. So there's no question at all about the appetite for music by Australians. It's just how much of it is Australian music? And clearly, Really. Clearly, those results on the Aria charts and on the triple J 100 are showing that we're not listening to our own. There was a report done by a company called Luminate and that shows that Australian. So this is of the top 10,000 artists. What are Australians listening to? 62% is US artists from the US. A little over 16 is from the UK, and Australian music listened to by Australians comes in third at 9.2%. That is not great. No matter how you look at that now, I can't believe that that's a deliberate choice. I don't believe it's intentional. I just think it's where we find ourselves. But I also think it means there's a lot of room for growth and a lot of new room to be able to shift that. And I and I think it's, um. Yeah, it's really fascinating because you look at the Australian artists, it's not the quality of the product, you know, commercially and critically, the success Australians are Australians are having internationally is evident. You look at APRA Amcos, which report on the royalties and the revenue generated from the song, and that's at an all time high for the international. The amount of Australian artists touring internationally has never been higher, and Spotify put out a report. They've done it for the last two years called Loud and Clear, and that talks about 80% of the revenue coming in on Spotify for Australian artists is from overseas. So you can't question the product. The product is there. You know, I think it was last week, the Brit Awards like really the biggest awards for the British. We had four Australians, so both two for international artists of the year in Confidence Man and Amyl and the sniffers. And both Kevin Parker and Sonny Fodera have been nominated for song of the year. That's huge, you know? So it's a really fascinating phenomena. I think, um, there's a term that people are talking about called glocalization, and this idea that previously we could take Australian music and Western music was, you know, going globally into different countries. What we've got now as a result of streaming increases, and particularly in some of the emerging markets, is they're going to consume their own. And this is happening when it's non Australian when it's non English. So if you can you can see the numbers just growing and growing and growing. Brazilians are listening to Brazilian German listening to Germany where that's not happening are in Australia, in New Zealand, in Canada, in Ireland. And I think for all of those English speaking countries, you're not getting the benefit of a local language driver when the growth in the streaming numbers increasing. Instead, what we're getting is that when people are listening to really big albums that are coming out by Charli XCX and, you know, Chappell, Roan and you know, Billie Eilish, it then continues to listen and they'll be served up the next US product.

Yeah, I think it's a real worry, and I think we've got a lot of, um, dichotomy going on. Australia as a music market is still the 10th biggest music market in the world. We just had the live performance Australia results showed that we have reached record highs in terms of ticket buying and audience numbers, and a lot of that is driven by the growth of contemporary music. So there's no question at all about the appetite for music by Australians. It's just how much of it is Australian music? And clearly, Really. Clearly, those results on the Aria charts and on the triple J 100 are showing that we're not listening to our own. There was a report done by a company called Luminate and that shows that Australian. So this is of the top 10,000 artists. What are Australians listening to? 62% is US artists from the US. A little over 16 is from the UK, and Australian music listened to by Australians comes in third at 9.2%. That is not great. No matter how you look at that now, I can't believe that that's a deliberate choice. I don't believe it's intentional. I just think it's where we find ourselves. But I also think it means there's a lot of room for growth and a lot of new room to be able to shift that. And I and I think it's, um. Yeah, it's really fascinating because you look at the Australian artists, it's not the quality of the product, you know, commercially and critically, the success Australians are Australians are having internationally is evident. You look at APRA Amcos, which report on the royalties and the revenue generated from the song, and that's at an all time high for the international. The amount of Australian artists touring internationally has never been higher, and Spotify put out a report. They've done it for the last two years called Loud and Clear, and that talks about 80% of the revenue coming in on Spotify for Australian artists is from overseas. So you can't question the product. The product is there. You know, I think it was last week, the Brit Awards like really the biggest awards for the British. We had four Australians, so both two for international artists of the year in Confidence Man and Amyl and the sniffers. And both Kevin Parker and Sonny Fodera have been nominated for song of the year. That's huge, you know? So it's a really fascinating phenomena. I think, um, there's a term that people are talking about called glocalization, and this idea that previously we could take Australian music and Western music was, you know, going globally into different countries. What we've got now as a result of streaming increases, and particularly in some of the emerging markets, is they're going to consume their own. And this is happening when it's non Australian when it's non English. So if you can you can see the numbers just growing and growing and growing. Brazilians are listening to Brazilian German listening to Germany where that's not happening are in Australia, in New Zealand, in Canada, in Ireland. And I think for all of those English speaking countries, you're not getting the benefit of a local language driver when the growth in the streaming numbers increasing. Instead, what we're getting is that when people are listening to really big albums that are coming out by Charli XCX and, you know, Chappell, Roan and you know, Billie Eilish, it then continues to listen and they'll be served up the next US product.

By the algorithm. So we're at the mercy of the.

By the algorithm. So we're at the mercy of the.

Algorithm, I think. Yeah, I think there is definitely that. And I do think it needs to be looked at. But I also think, you know, those, um, the people, the Australian based people working for those companies are doing some really terrific initiatives driving Australian music. And and on the one hand, globally, what we're doing globally is because of the DSPs. So it's it's this really interesting when people talk about, oh, you know, there's not enough on the triple J hottest 100 or there's not. It's absolutely facts. There's no denying that, that there are so many multi-faceted and complex reasons as to why. And there's not one silver bullet to fix it either. So when Music Australia looks at our investments and where we're trying to, um, you know, really strategically look at our, our way of supporting artists, it has to be across that whole ecology.

Algorithm, I think. Yeah, I think there is definitely that. And I do think it needs to be looked at. But I also think, you know, those, um, the people, the Australian based people working for those companies are doing some really terrific initiatives driving Australian music. And and on the one hand, globally, what we're doing globally is because of the DSPs. So it's it's this really interesting when people talk about, oh, you know, there's not enough on the triple J hottest 100 or there's not. It's absolutely facts. There's no denying that, that there are so many multi-faceted and complex reasons as to why. And there's not one silver bullet to fix it either. So when Music Australia looks at our investments and where we're trying to, um, you know, really strategically look at our, our way of supporting artists, it has to be across that whole ecology.

Okay. So what direct measures can Music Australia do to help young Australian artists in particular?

Okay. So what direct measures can Music Australia do to help young Australian artists in particular?

Yeah. Well, I guess you know the things when I look at what we do, there's ten areas of investment. We look in artist development, we look at industry development. Absolutely. Market development. So everything from your festivals and grassroots through to export also what's happening on screen. So music in film, music in gaming. Um, we also looking at music education. We absolutely have to look at, you know, how do you get not only the learning of the instruments like Yamaha and you know my brother and I, but what about learning how to record a song, learning how to write a song. So getting music back into the curriculum and having that really start to allow audiences as well, audience development appreciation, um, we need to look at again, we're doing a lot of research to try and really tease out where people can direct investments and the industry themselves, but I think a big part of our measures is going to start to be evaluating what impact has the money we've put into export had, so we've only been making investments. It's not even 12 months now. Um, in terms of how we can start to see those results. But we've got people at the ready to start to look at, um, you know, what kind of impact will it have? What kind of growth will it have? Um, we've made investments most recently into 23 record labels. So they're really at the coalface of investing in Australian talent, recording, you know, producing, helping with all the content delivery. Um, but.

Yeah. Well, I guess you know the things when I look at what we do, there's ten areas of investment. We look in artist development, we look at industry development. Absolutely. Market development. So everything from your festivals and grassroots through to export also what's happening on screen. So music in film, music in gaming. Um, we also looking at music education. We absolutely have to look at, you know, how do you get not only the learning of the instruments like Yamaha and you know my brother and I, but what about learning how to record a song, learning how to write a song. So getting music back into the curriculum and having that really start to allow audiences as well, audience development appreciation, um, we need to look at again, we're doing a lot of research to try and really tease out where people can direct investments and the industry themselves, but I think a big part of our measures is going to start to be evaluating what impact has the money we've put into export had, so we've only been making investments. It's not even 12 months now. Um, in terms of how we can start to see those results. But we've got people at the ready to start to look at, um, you know, what kind of impact will it have? What kind of growth will it have? Um, we've made investments most recently into 23 record labels. So they're really at the coalface of investing in Australian talent, recording, you know, producing, helping with all the content delivery. Um, but.

They if you give them a grant, they will look for their own Australian artists or you.

They if you give them a grant, they will look for their own Australian artists or you.

Tell them it's only for Australian artists. So they have to invest in Australian artists with that.

Tell them it's only for Australian artists. So they have to invest in Australian artists with that.

Um, will you steer them towards particular artists or will they have to?

Um, will you steer them towards particular artists or will they have to?

No, not at all. No. And in terms of, you know, you know, certainly the ministers at arm's distance to any of that selection. I'm fortunate that Music Australia is based within Creative Australia that has incredibly robust assessing processes. So we use industry advisers. So they rank all of the, you know, whether it's an export category or otherwise. And then we sit around and we have a meeting, a full day meeting, really looking at, you know, who they want to support and why. They'll give us the best possible advice. And then we'll take it from there.

No, not at all. No. And in terms of, you know, you know, certainly the ministers at arm's distance to any of that selection. I'm fortunate that Music Australia is based within Creative Australia that has incredibly robust assessing processes. So we use industry advisers. So they rank all of the, you know, whether it's an export category or otherwise. And then we sit around and we have a meeting, a full day meeting, really looking at, you know, who they want to support and why. They'll give us the best possible advice. And then we'll take it from there.

The good news is we still do have brilliant talents emerging. We've got, um, you know, just to name a few. G Flip and Royal Lotus and the Kid Laroi. Where will the next generation of young emerging artists come from?

The good news is we still do have brilliant talents emerging. We've got, um, you know, just to name a few. G Flip and Royal Lotus and the Kid Laroi. Where will the next generation of young emerging artists come from?

I think they're going to come from everywhere. Look, I think our First Nation talent is incredible. And I think, you know, certainly in hip hop and in country and, you know, the stories, the stories that they're telling are so unique. So for them to, you know, hone a craft and really be able to tell, you know, an incredible story. Um, well, I mean, they're coming from all corners of Australia. There's, you know, I think more and more people, you know, I think part of that statistic around the 120,000 songs being released today, it's something like 75 million music creators, and that's going to double by the year 2030. So, you know, they're coming, people. You know, the access to making music is even easier. You know, people are able to use AI in innovative ways. We definitely need to look at how AI is being used with existing copyrighted music. That's a whole other area that I think we really need to pay attention to before it is too soon. And I think, um, it's something that's going to change the shape of all forms of media, you know, not not just music. Um, but. Yeah, look, I talent's not the problem. Every, every day you hear something new and exciting.

I think they're going to come from everywhere. Look, I think our First Nation talent is incredible. And I think, you know, certainly in hip hop and in country and, you know, the stories, the stories that they're telling are so unique. So for them to, you know, hone a craft and really be able to tell, you know, an incredible story. Um, well, I mean, they're coming from all corners of Australia. There's, you know, I think more and more people, you know, I think part of that statistic around the 120,000 songs being released today, it's something like 75 million music creators, and that's going to double by the year 2030. So, you know, they're coming, people. You know, the access to making music is even easier. You know, people are able to use AI in innovative ways. We definitely need to look at how AI is being used with existing copyrighted music. That's a whole other area that I think we really need to pay attention to before it is too soon. And I think, um, it's something that's going to change the shape of all forms of media, you know, not not just music. Um, but. Yeah, look, I talent's not the problem. Every, every day you hear something new and exciting.

Okay. Uh, the triple J hottest 100 was dominated by young women who are singer songwriters from overseas. Does that tell us something about the trends permanently, or is that and and the notion of who listens to things? Or is it just a, a nature of how the market shifts from say.

Okay. Uh, the triple J hottest 100 was dominated by young women who are singer songwriters from overseas. Does that tell us something about the trends permanently, or is that and and the notion of who listens to things? Or is it just a, a nature of how the market shifts from say.

Yeah, it's a bit, It's a bit. I mean, trends by definition, I think are constantly changing. I think what's interesting with the solo artists, I would suggest that in more recent years there's more and more solo artists. And if you look at just at a local scenario, it's because the cost of touring a band is a lot of money. You know, even the idea of, you know, every street on a corner had a garage band. These were the bands that were living in the city and the inner cities of Brunswick and Newtown. That's not happening anymore. They can't afford to live in the city. So I think when you when people are starting out and a lot of the music that they're, you know, able to make in their bedroom isn't with 5 or 6 people, you know, it's very much they're doing it. So there's a lot more producers. There's a lot more, you know, performing to track. And the way people are listening to music, they're used to that. They're used to digital creation. And it's not all about, you know, seven live instruments. So I think that's probably had a little bit of an impact on it. I know of the, you 2.4 million voters in the triple J hottest, 162% were women that voted. So I don't know exactly what that tells you, but, you know, it could really reflect the type of artist that did well. And I think we saw that with with a number of the certainly, you know, with both Billie Eilish and, um, Charli XCX getting, you know, eight songs apiece.

Yeah, it's a bit, It's a bit. I mean, trends by definition, I think are constantly changing. I think what's interesting with the solo artists, I would suggest that in more recent years there's more and more solo artists. And if you look at just at a local scenario, it's because the cost of touring a band is a lot of money. You know, even the idea of, you know, every street on a corner had a garage band. These were the bands that were living in the city and the inner cities of Brunswick and Newtown. That's not happening anymore. They can't afford to live in the city. So I think when you when people are starting out and a lot of the music that they're, you know, able to make in their bedroom isn't with 5 or 6 people, you know, it's very much they're doing it. So there's a lot more producers. There's a lot more, you know, performing to track. And the way people are listening to music, they're used to that. They're used to digital creation. And it's not all about, you know, seven live instruments. So I think that's probably had a little bit of an impact on it. I know of the, you 2.4 million voters in the triple J hottest, 162% were women that voted. So I don't know exactly what that tells you, but, you know, it could really reflect the type of artist that did well. And I think we saw that with with a number of the certainly, you know, with both Billie Eilish and, um, Charli XCX getting, you know, eight songs apiece.

On.

On.

Top. Yeah.

Top. Yeah.

Yeah. Mhm. Uh, there's been a big switch obviously to country music in the States. Uh, do we cater for that market well enough? And if we don't how do we do it.

Yeah. Mhm. Uh, there's been a big switch obviously to country music in the States. Uh, do we cater for that market well enough? And if we don't how do we do it.

I think look I think country here, you know, there were a lot of people up in Tamworth last week, uh, is growing and growing. Um, the Luminate data shows that in terms of Australian growth in country, not only consuming international artists, but also local artists, you know, I think Luke Combs is playing out at Acorn on Friday. There is a real appetite for country music. The country music festival that happens is just selling out year on year. Um, and then I think we are seeing more and more Australian artists really, you know, growing in that field as well.

I think look I think country here, you know, there were a lot of people up in Tamworth last week, uh, is growing and growing. Um, the Luminate data shows that in terms of Australian growth in country, not only consuming international artists, but also local artists, you know, I think Luke Combs is playing out at Acorn on Friday. There is a real appetite for country music. The country music festival that happens is just selling out year on year. Um, and then I think we are seeing more and more Australian artists really, you know, growing in that field as well.

Okay. Do you think Australia, uh, is over, on top of all the sort of different styles of music that appeal to people both here and overseas? Um, you know, uh, rap, uh, country sort of singer songwriter stuff, hard rock, all of those things. Do you think we have enough talent across all of these different areas?

Okay. Do you think Australia, uh, is over, on top of all the sort of different styles of music that appeal to people both here and overseas? Um, you know, uh, rap, uh, country sort of singer songwriter stuff, hard rock, all of those things. Do you think we have enough talent across all of these different areas?

Yeah, I do, I really do. I mean, we have the privilege of, you know, seeing all the artists that are applying for export grants. And that really is a really good split across different genres. And I think, you know, for a long time, I mean, Australian heavy metal artists like, you know, the really heavy rock stuff has for a long time batted above its weight over, you know, in Europe and are constantly building networks and going back and forth with no one here knowing what's going on. Um, so yeah, look, I do and I think it used to be that you would have to build a career in Australia and you'd, you know, have to tour the country X amount of times and release and, you know, get, get a certain amount of airplay. But as I said before, you are exporting from the first single you release, and what you're listening to is so universal and global. Like, you're really not carving out territories like you used to anymore either. So I think for a lot of the new Australian artists, you know, coming through, they're listening and influenced by, you know, music from everywhere.

Yeah, I do, I really do. I mean, we have the privilege of, you know, seeing all the artists that are applying for export grants. And that really is a really good split across different genres. And I think, you know, for a long time, I mean, Australian heavy metal artists like, you know, the really heavy rock stuff has for a long time batted above its weight over, you know, in Europe and are constantly building networks and going back and forth with no one here knowing what's going on. Um, so yeah, look, I do and I think it used to be that you would have to build a career in Australia and you'd, you know, have to tour the country X amount of times and release and, you know, get, get a certain amount of airplay. But as I said before, you are exporting from the first single you release, and what you're listening to is so universal and global. Like, you're really not carving out territories like you used to anymore either. So I think for a lot of the new Australian artists, you know, coming through, they're listening and influenced by, you know, music from everywhere.

Yeah, we see a lot of nostalgia at play when it comes to buying concert tickets in particular, and probably even, uh, you know, streaming as well. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Yeah, we see a lot of nostalgia at play when it comes to buying concert tickets in particular, and probably even, uh, you know, streaming as well. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Oh, look, I'm going to just say it's a thing. You know, you can't. I think, you know, we really leant into nostalgia during the pandemic. And look, let's be fair, those artists were fantastic. You know, when you look at Spiderbait and Regurgitator and you am I and something for Kate and they're all still going, you know, none of them have stopped. They've just kept going. They've, you know, in some instances got better. Um, so I think it's a little bit of a revival for those acts because they weren't able to export in the same way. So they've still got these really massive Australian fan bases that they've been able to, you know, draw on. And I think a lot of the 90s acts that are touring and the small one day festivals they put together are all doing extremely well. What you'd like to see is, you know, if those people going to those shows could then also start, you know, seeking out and hunting new acts as well.

Oh, look, I'm going to just say it's a thing. You know, you can't. I think, you know, we really leant into nostalgia during the pandemic. And look, let's be fair, those artists were fantastic. You know, when you look at Spiderbait and Regurgitator and you am I and something for Kate and they're all still going, you know, none of them have stopped. They've just kept going. They've, you know, in some instances got better. Um, so I think it's a little bit of a revival for those acts because they weren't able to export in the same way. So they've still got these really massive Australian fan bases that they've been able to, you know, draw on. And I think a lot of the 90s acts that are touring and the small one day festivals they put together are all doing extremely well. What you'd like to see is, you know, if those people going to those shows could then also start, you know, seeking out and hunting new acts as well.

If I'm a young artist listening to this Milli and I hear talk about, you know, export grants and, uh, need to know more about the business and be educated in different ways. I might be a little intimidated because this is not how I see my career evolving. What advice do you have for people like that?

If I'm a young artist listening to this Milli and I hear talk about, you know, export grants and, uh, need to know more about the business and be educated in different ways. I might be a little intimidated because this is not how I see my career evolving. What advice do you have for people like that?

I think the thing is, if you can, don't be intimidated. There are a lot of good people working in different organizations that whose entire role is there to help? I think in every single state and territory, there's a music office. So it's the gaming network. So there's music, New South Wales music, Queensland music, Tas music NT. I would start by getting involved with what they've got going on locally. So whether they're putting on local events where you can learn more or networking opportunities. A lot of it is just learning and listening to people that have come before, you know, it's not an easy, um, thing to to just suddenly get like, I reckon, coming through. I had to be explained publishing, music publishing where you've got the copyright in the song and the copyright in the sound recording at least 60 times before I understood it. But for a young artist, they're your two greatest source of revenue outside of live music. So if you don't understand how they work and who manages them and how they can be exploited for good, then it's going to be really hard. So it's it's definitely you want them to love it and have their passion for music. And you know, so much of music is about telling a story and identity. And we want Australian stories out there. We want Australian stories to to travel the world. But you can't you can't not understand. It's a business. As an artist, you are running a small business. You will ultimately go on to an employer manager. You will employ a booking agent, you will engage a record label. They are all working for you. And if you don't have the necessary skills, financial literacy, you know, planning, understanding the media depth and all the different socials and what you need to do online, it's going to be really hard for you to succeed.

I think the thing is, if you can, don't be intimidated. There are a lot of good people working in different organizations that whose entire role is there to help? I think in every single state and territory, there's a music office. So it's the gaming network. So there's music, New South Wales music, Queensland music, Tas music NT. I would start by getting involved with what they've got going on locally. So whether they're putting on local events where you can learn more or networking opportunities. A lot of it is just learning and listening to people that have come before, you know, it's not an easy, um, thing to to just suddenly get like, I reckon, coming through. I had to be explained publishing, music publishing where you've got the copyright in the song and the copyright in the sound recording at least 60 times before I understood it. But for a young artist, they're your two greatest source of revenue outside of live music. So if you don't understand how they work and who manages them and how they can be exploited for good, then it's going to be really hard. So it's it's definitely you want them to love it and have their passion for music. And you know, so much of music is about telling a story and identity. And we want Australian stories out there. We want Australian stories to to travel the world. But you can't you can't not understand. It's a business. As an artist, you are running a small business. You will ultimately go on to an employer manager. You will employ a booking agent, you will engage a record label. They are all working for you. And if you don't have the necessary skills, financial literacy, you know, planning, understanding the media depth and all the different socials and what you need to do online, it's going to be really hard for you to succeed.

The blockbuster of blockbusters in music was Taylor Swift's Eras Tour 149 shows, 53 cities, five continents grossed more than 2.2 billion USD. It's, um. She was such a beloved figure when she was on that tour. She still is, of course. But tell us what we can learn from the success and maybe the relationship between artists and their fans from that tour.

The blockbuster of blockbusters in music was Taylor Swift's Eras Tour 149 shows, 53 cities, five continents grossed more than 2.2 billion USD. It's, um. She was such a beloved figure when she was on that tour. She still is, of course. But tell us what we can learn from the success and maybe the relationship between artists and their fans from that tour.

Well, I think that's it. You've just summed it up with artists and their fans. I think Taylor, from a really, really early age understood that whilst you've got all these mechanics in the ecosystem that I've been referring to, ultimately there's no stronger or more powerful role than that role that you can have and that relationship and engagement you can have with your fan. So I think she absolutely brought that to the forefront in a way no one understood. You know, we've seen it now with Fred again, you know, he really has has built a fan engagement through discord. And you're seeing more and more artists are taking themselves off platforms owned by others and really bringing people back to their own websites and their own newsletters. So I think Dermot Kennedy was another one. James Taylor. It is changing. People are really understanding that if you have that relationship with your fan and it can't just be, oh, I've got a CD out, I'm on tour. It can't just be this. You're speaking at them, telling them what you've got. It's about how do you bring them into the conversation? How do you have that constant.

Well, I think that's it. You've just summed it up with artists and their fans. I think Taylor, from a really, really early age understood that whilst you've got all these mechanics in the ecosystem that I've been referring to, ultimately there's no stronger or more powerful role than that role that you can have and that relationship and engagement you can have with your fan. So I think she absolutely brought that to the forefront in a way no one understood. You know, we've seen it now with Fred again, you know, he really has has built a fan engagement through discord. And you're seeing more and more artists are taking themselves off platforms owned by others and really bringing people back to their own websites and their own newsletters. So I think Dermot Kennedy was another one. James Taylor. It is changing. People are really understanding that if you have that relationship with your fan and it can't just be, oh, I've got a CD out, I'm on tour. It can't just be this. You're speaking at them, telling them what you've got. It's about how do you bring them into the conversation? How do you have that constant.

Respect that works for both people, too, because it sort of helps artists go on when they're facing knockbacks or something doesn't work, or a tour falls over or something like that. The support of bands. Bands of fans, the support of fans of bands can help and artists can help them.

Respect that works for both people, too, because it sort of helps artists go on when they're facing knockbacks or something doesn't work, or a tour falls over or something like that. The support of bands. Bands of fans, the support of fans of bands can help and artists can help them.

Yeah, I think look locally. I think G Flip and Troye Sivan are really good examples of that. They really they absolutely know their audience and they, you know, I'm pretty sure I heard with G flip, um, they'd been a fan maybe of me, of Meg Mac and, you know, as a younger artist themselves received a response from a DM and it really stuck with them that, oh, this meant so much to me as a fan. I'm going to do that for my audiences. And, you know, the amount of time G will spend engaging, you know, one on one and commenting, like just taking the time, waking up every day and responding to comments. Okay. It's not what people probably think they're signing up for in the music business, but boy, does that make a difference. You know.

Yeah, I think look locally. I think G Flip and Troye Sivan are really good examples of that. They really they absolutely know their audience and they, you know, I'm pretty sure I heard with G flip, um, they'd been a fan maybe of me, of Meg Mac and, you know, as a younger artist themselves received a response from a DM and it really stuck with them that, oh, this meant so much to me as a fan. I'm going to do that for my audiences. And, you know, the amount of time G will spend engaging, you know, one on one and commenting, like just taking the time, waking up every day and responding to comments. Okay. It's not what people probably think they're signing up for in the music business, but boy, does that make a difference. You know.

Uh, we've talked a lot about the problems facing Australian music for young artists who are listening, or even artists who are in the middle stages of their career. Tell us why they should be optimistic.

Uh, we've talked a lot about the problems facing Australian music for young artists who are listening, or even artists who are in the middle stages of their career. Tell us why they should be optimistic.

I think we've never had the funding that we've had before in contemporary music, and it's still really, really early days. So the announcement from the federal government in January 23rd was for 69 million for the creation of Music Australia Sound, New South Wales, which is similarly supporting New South Wales artists, has just been set up. We last week WA announced a contemporary music package. You know, there are more people actively with resources than there ever has been. I think we've just got to start to see that start to play out and trickle through. Um, and I still think we're making really great music, and I still think, you know, now that we've had time and resources to look at the research, the research that we'll have coming out in March and then again in April and June really is going to start to unpack some of this. You know what we're looking at discovery. We're looking at consumption and engagement. You know, having that data and really getting deep into it. How do we then look at campaigns that will, you know, ultimately we need more Australians consuming Australian music. And I would love for anyone listening to, you know, listen more, dig deeper. And and you don't have to, you know, we'd love you to go and buy CDs, but even listening more will make such a difference.

I think we've never had the funding that we've had before in contemporary music, and it's still really, really early days. So the announcement from the federal government in January 23rd was for 69 million for the creation of Music Australia Sound, New South Wales, which is similarly supporting New South Wales artists, has just been set up. We last week WA announced a contemporary music package. You know, there are more people actively with resources than there ever has been. I think we've just got to start to see that start to play out and trickle through. Um, and I still think we're making really great music, and I still think, you know, now that we've had time and resources to look at the research, the research that we'll have coming out in March and then again in April and June really is going to start to unpack some of this. You know what we're looking at discovery. We're looking at consumption and engagement. You know, having that data and really getting deep into it. How do we then look at campaigns that will, you know, ultimately we need more Australians consuming Australian music. And I would love for anyone listening to, you know, listen more, dig deeper. And and you don't have to, you know, we'd love you to go and buy CDs, but even listening more will make such a difference.

Okay, everyone who loves Australian music wishes you every success, Millie. So thanks for talking to us today.

Okay, everyone who loves Australian music wishes you every success, Millie. So thanks for talking to us today.

Thanks.

Thanks.

That was Music Australia boss Millie Millgate being interviewed by Garry Maddox on the latest Good Weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Coming soon, we'll chat with journalist Peter Greste and the actor Richard Roxburgh, who's playing him in the upcoming film The Correspondent. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Kai Wong. Editing from Conrad Marshall. Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Katrina Strickland is the editor of Good Weekend.

That was Music Australia boss Millie Millgate being interviewed by Garry Maddox on the latest Good Weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Coming soon, we'll chat with journalist Peter Greste and the actor Richard Roxburgh, who's playing him in the upcoming film The Correspondent. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Kai Wong. Editing from Conrad Marshall. Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Katrina Strickland is the editor of Good Weekend.