Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Matt Kean, the former New South Wales state politician was once a deputy Liberal leader, treasurer and Minister for Energy and Environment, but he's now chair of the National Climate Change Authority. That means Kean helped set the Australian agenda for the fight against global warming by shaping federal policies and laws on every hot button green issue imaginable. Taking on the job was seen in some quarters by conservative commentators, mostly as a traitorous move by a climate communist, now known to some as Green Keen. Our new climate change czar is the subject of a feature profile in the magazine this week, force of nature and hosting this conversation about the powerful enemies Keane now faces and the fight to save our natural world, is the acting editor of Good Weekend, Greg Callahan.

Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week, you can download new episodes in which top journalists from across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with Matt Kean, the former New South Wales state politician was once a deputy Liberal leader, treasurer and Minister for Energy and Environment, but he's now chair of the National Climate Change Authority. That means Kean helped set the Australian agenda for the fight against global warming by shaping federal policies and laws on every hot button green issue imaginable. Taking on the job was seen in some quarters by conservative commentators, mostly as a traitorous move by a climate communist, now known to some as Green Keen. Our new climate change czar is the subject of a feature profile in the magazine this week, force of nature and hosting this conversation about the powerful enemies Keane now faces and the fight to save our natural world, is the acting editor of Good Weekend, Greg Callahan.

Thank you, Conrad, and welcome Matt Keane.

Thank you, Conrad, and welcome Matt Keane.

Good morning Greg.

Good morning Greg.

Now, last year you announced your retirement from politics. The coalition was no longer in power, and it must have been pretty damn dull. Sitting in opposition after a pretty prestigious career as New South Wales Treasurer, Deputy Premier, Minister of Energy and the environment and so forth. So why why did you quit?

Now, last year you announced your retirement from politics. The coalition was no longer in power, and it must have been pretty damn dull. Sitting in opposition after a pretty prestigious career as New South Wales Treasurer, Deputy Premier, Minister of Energy and the environment and so forth. So why why did you quit?

Well, I think the number one reason was that I had a young son and a young family, and I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss out on him growing up as Treasurer of New South Wales, my partner was a single mum virtually, and my son saw me on TV more than he saw me in person. So I think going into opposition gave me a chance to reflect on what my priorities were, and I wanted to be a better dad and a better partner. So thinking about that and whether I could make that work in full time politics, I made a decision to try my hand at something else and see if I could make an impact in the climate space outside of elected politics. And fortunately, an opportunity came along for me to do that.

Well, I think the number one reason was that I had a young son and a young family, and I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss out on him growing up as Treasurer of New South Wales, my partner was a single mum virtually, and my son saw me on TV more than he saw me in person. So I think going into opposition gave me a chance to reflect on what my priorities were, and I wanted to be a better dad and a better partner. So thinking about that and whether I could make that work in full time politics, I made a decision to try my hand at something else and see if I could make an impact in the climate space outside of elected politics. And fortunately, an opportunity came along for me to do that.

And it must have been pretty proud for your son to see his old man on the telly.

And it must have been pretty proud for your son to see his old man on the telly.

Yeah, I think he he just takes it for granted. Like, oh, everyone's on the telly. Of course dad, I was on a show the other night and I said, oh, make sure you watch daddy on the show. He's like, no, no, I'm not going to do that.

Yeah, I think he he just takes it for granted. Like, oh, everyone's on the telly. Of course dad, I was on a show the other night and I said, oh, make sure you watch daddy on the show. He's like, no, no, I'm not going to do that.

He's had enough.

He's had enough.

He's had enough.

He's had enough.

Yeah. So, so in August last year, standing on the podium of Parliament House beside Anthony Albanese, the prime Minister, of course. He announced that you were the new chair of the Climate Change Authority. Of course, this sent many conservative right wing members, particularly the Liberal Party, into, um, you know, a spin. And it got a little bit nasty, didn't it? You got some called a few names.

Yeah. So, so in August last year, standing on the podium of Parliament House beside Anthony Albanese, the prime Minister, of course. He announced that you were the new chair of the Climate Change Authority. Of course, this sent many conservative right wing members, particularly the Liberal Party, into, um, you know, a spin. And it got a little bit nasty, didn't it? You got some called a few names.

Well, um, I did, but I think the point is that I'm not here to take sides. I'm here to speak up for the science, the facts and good climate policy. And quite frankly, if people don't like the facts, then they should get better policies. Um, people can hurl insults. They can call me names. That's fine. But if you think that bullying me is going to influence me, then you're wasting your time. I'm here to make sure that we stand up for evidence based climate policy. And that's what I'll continue to do. That's what I did as a minister in the New South Wales government. And that's what I'll do as the independent chair of the climate authority. And I'll make this point to the science can't be bullied. Values can't be bullied. People can do their worst to me, but I'll keep doing my job.

Well, um, I did, but I think the point is that I'm not here to take sides. I'm here to speak up for the science, the facts and good climate policy. And quite frankly, if people don't like the facts, then they should get better policies. Um, people can hurl insults. They can call me names. That's fine. But if you think that bullying me is going to influence me, then you're wasting your time. I'm here to make sure that we stand up for evidence based climate policy. And that's what I'll continue to do. That's what I did as a minister in the New South Wales government. And that's what I'll do as the independent chair of the climate authority. And I'll make this point to the science can't be bullied. Values can't be bullied. People can do their worst to me, but I'll keep doing my job.

Mm. Oh, well, that's not the case in America, though, is it? Um, climate change issues are being kind of bullied out of the public space. The media is on the defensive there. It's, um. You know, Trump has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement. It's not. It's not great. In fact, you could be forgiven for thinking that bullies do win sometimes.

Mm. Oh, well, that's not the case in America, though, is it? Um, climate change issues are being kind of bullied out of the public space. The media is on the defensive there. It's, um. You know, Trump has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement. It's not. It's not great. In fact, you could be forgiven for thinking that bullies do win sometimes.

Well, that doesn't have to be the case. And we need more political leaders to stand up for the national interest, rather than their own political interests or for vested interests. And for too long, particularly in the climate space, we've seen vested interests like the Minerals Council. We've seen, you know, the fossil fuel lobby, uh, holding power over our elected representatives at the expense of the community and the planet. And I'll continue to fight for the community and the planet against vested interests.

Well, that doesn't have to be the case. And we need more political leaders to stand up for the national interest, rather than their own political interests or for vested interests. And for too long, particularly in the climate space, we've seen vested interests like the Minerals Council. We've seen, you know, the fossil fuel lobby, uh, holding power over our elected representatives at the expense of the community and the planet. And I'll continue to fight for the community and the planet against vested interests.

Can you describe just a little bit of maybe an example or two, without naming names of that of, of some of those conflicts you had when you were actually in Parliament, when you were representing? Um, you know, a member of the Liberal Party, a Conservative party, uh, but obviously your own principles were slightly at odds with, um, some of the views of your colleagues. Can you just give an example of a couple of the, um, maybe conflicts you had? Was it was it whether nasty words in emails, cowardly emails or on social media, or did people just, you know, front up to you face to face.

Can you describe just a little bit of maybe an example or two, without naming names of that of, of some of those conflicts you had when you were actually in Parliament, when you were representing? Um, you know, a member of the Liberal Party, a Conservative party, uh, but obviously your own principles were slightly at odds with, um, some of the views of your colleagues. Can you just give an example of a couple of the, um, maybe conflicts you had? Was it was it whether nasty words in emails, cowardly emails or on social media, or did people just, you know, front up to you face to face.

All of the above. But that's not going to influence me. What's going to influence me is the evidence and the facts and what's in the state's interest and the national interest. And that's that was my North Star. But if you want an example, I mean, a perfect example is when we put a cap on the price of coal in New South Wales. That was as a result of the invasion, illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia, which saw the wholesale price of coal rise by 360%. Now, we couldn't allow New South Wales consumers to be hit with that increase, so we capped the price of coal. And I remember the head of the Minerals Council at the time telling me he's going to get me. Now that didn't change my view. That didn't influence me. I acted in the public interest rather than for vested interests. So, um, are people in the positions that I held are there to act for the public good, and I can sleep very well at night knowing I did exactly that.

All of the above. But that's not going to influence me. What's going to influence me is the evidence and the facts and what's in the state's interest and the national interest. And that's that was my North Star. But if you want an example, I mean, a perfect example is when we put a cap on the price of coal in New South Wales. That was as a result of the invasion, illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia, which saw the wholesale price of coal rise by 360%. Now, we couldn't allow New South Wales consumers to be hit with that increase, so we capped the price of coal. And I remember the head of the Minerals Council at the time telling me he's going to get me. Now that didn't change my view. That didn't influence me. I acted in the public interest rather than for vested interests. So, um, are people in the positions that I held are there to act for the public good, and I can sleep very well at night knowing I did exactly that.

Well, it's great that you can sleep at night, because my next question was, was simply when you're, um, confronted and bullied at that kind of level, um, it can be intimidating. And even though you, you might brush it aside and skate over it during the day, often these things catch up with you at night when you're trying to unwind and rest.

Well, it's great that you can sleep at night, because my next question was, was simply when you're, um, confronted and bullied at that kind of level, um, it can be intimidating. And even though you, you might brush it aside and skate over it during the day, often these things catch up with you at night when you're trying to unwind and rest.

I think I wouldn't sleep well if I didn't stand up for the values that have been instilled in me and the beliefs that I have. You shouldn't enter public life if you're willing to blow with the wind. You should be standing up for values and principles that are universal. And I always tried to do that in public life. Standing up for evidence, standing up for facts, standing up for the idea of handing our planet to our kids better than we found it. So, you know, people could try and bully me and intimidate me, but they were wasting their time. I believed in what I was doing. I believed it was the right thing to do for the state. And I still believe that it's in the interests of New South Wales and indeed Australia, that we put policies in place that will hand our planet to our kids better than we found it, whilst growing our prosperity. That's something that we should all be able to agree on, but unfortunately, there are many vested interests that want to protect their own profits and their own book at the expense of the community.

I think I wouldn't sleep well if I didn't stand up for the values that have been instilled in me and the beliefs that I have. You shouldn't enter public life if you're willing to blow with the wind. You should be standing up for values and principles that are universal. And I always tried to do that in public life. Standing up for evidence, standing up for facts, standing up for the idea of handing our planet to our kids better than we found it. So, you know, people could try and bully me and intimidate me, but they were wasting their time. I believed in what I was doing. I believed it was the right thing to do for the state. And I still believe that it's in the interests of New South Wales and indeed Australia, that we put policies in place that will hand our planet to our kids better than we found it, whilst growing our prosperity. That's something that we should all be able to agree on, but unfortunately, there are many vested interests that want to protect their own profits and their own book at the expense of the community.

Yes. And indeed, you're not going to sort of change their position or change their minds no matter what kind of array of facts and and truth telling that you you roll out.

Yes. And indeed, you're not going to sort of change their position or change their minds no matter what kind of array of facts and and truth telling that you you roll out.

Well, that's exactly right. People are entitled to their views, but they're not entitled to their own facts. And I always try to stick to the facts and the evidence and the evidence when it comes to climate policy, is that the more CO2 we put into the atmosphere, the more we increase the chances of dangerous global warming and more extreme weather events these things will have. They're already having catastrophic impacts on lives and livelihoods. And the good news is, though, is that we can still do something about it. By taking action to dramatically reduce carbon emissions. We can protect our planet and our future from the worst impacts of climate change. But also while rolling out technologies like renewable energy, electric vehicles and things like that, we can improve our standard of living, we can drive investment into our country, and we can underwrite a new era of economic prosperity for our nation. And that's a chance that I think is too big to pass up so we can be good for the planet, whilst also growing the economy. And those that say that we can't. Well, I question their motives and I'd suggest that they're trying to protect old vested interests. Mhm.

Well, that's exactly right. People are entitled to their views, but they're not entitled to their own facts. And I always try to stick to the facts and the evidence and the evidence when it comes to climate policy, is that the more CO2 we put into the atmosphere, the more we increase the chances of dangerous global warming and more extreme weather events these things will have. They're already having catastrophic impacts on lives and livelihoods. And the good news is, though, is that we can still do something about it. By taking action to dramatically reduce carbon emissions. We can protect our planet and our future from the worst impacts of climate change. But also while rolling out technologies like renewable energy, electric vehicles and things like that, we can improve our standard of living, we can drive investment into our country, and we can underwrite a new era of economic prosperity for our nation. And that's a chance that I think is too big to pass up so we can be good for the planet, whilst also growing the economy. And those that say that we can't. Well, I question their motives and I'd suggest that they're trying to protect old vested interests. Mhm.

You're going against quite a wall of resistance there. Let's go back to your childhood mat. Just a bit of a change of gear here because some your childhood had a big impact on your climate view of the world. You always like nature. You used to walk as a kid through, um, Berowra Valley National Park before it was a national park. So it's personal for you that that that transition into a national park. So tell us a little about that.

You're going against quite a wall of resistance there. Let's go back to your childhood mat. Just a bit of a change of gear here because some your childhood had a big impact on your climate view of the world. You always like nature. You used to walk as a kid through, um, Berowra Valley National Park before it was a national park. So it's personal for you that that that transition into a national park. So tell us a little about that.

It is very personal for me. I mean, that was our backyard growing up. The national parks. That's where we went on holidays. That's where we'd spend our downtime on weekends, bushwalking and learning about nature. Being in nature, that was that was where I grew up, and that's the community that I ended up representing as the member for Hornsby. These are people that love the bush. That's why they choose to live in that part of the world. So as the local member, you know, acting on climate change, acting to protect nature was not out of step with my liberal values. It was completely in step with the values of my community. And and that's why I was so proud to be an advocate and a warrior for protection of nature, for strong environmental protection, and for action on climate change.

It is very personal for me. I mean, that was our backyard growing up. The national parks. That's where we went on holidays. That's where we'd spend our downtime on weekends, bushwalking and learning about nature. Being in nature, that was that was where I grew up, and that's the community that I ended up representing as the member for Hornsby. These are people that love the bush. That's why they choose to live in that part of the world. So as the local member, you know, acting on climate change, acting to protect nature was not out of step with my liberal values. It was completely in step with the values of my community. And and that's why I was so proud to be an advocate and a warrior for protection of nature, for strong environmental protection, and for action on climate change.

And there's a little special pocket of majestic blue gums in that park.

And there's a little special pocket of majestic blue gums in that park.

There is. And for those wanting to go to an idyllic and a magnificent part of our Australian bushland, then the Barossa Valley National Park is truly special. Most people will know it because they are the Great North Walk goes through there. So from Lane Cove up to Newcastle, it's incredible part of bushland, which I was very proud to advocate for stronger protections and we were able to upgrade the status of that wonderful piece of nature from a regional park to a national park, protecting it in perpetuity for future generations. And that's something I'm immensely proud of.

There is. And for those wanting to go to an idyllic and a magnificent part of our Australian bushland, then the Barossa Valley National Park is truly special. Most people will know it because they are the Great North Walk goes through there. So from Lane Cove up to Newcastle, it's incredible part of bushland, which I was very proud to advocate for stronger protections and we were able to upgrade the status of that wonderful piece of nature from a regional park to a national park, protecting it in perpetuity for future generations. And that's something I'm immensely proud of.

Would it be your singular, most proud moment getting that declared as a national park?

Would it be your singular, most proud moment getting that declared as a national park?

It was really special because that's going to outlive, um, my time on this earth, that's going to be there for future generations to be able to enjoy forever. And that's that's an incredible thing that I'm very proud of. The government I'm part I was part of, should be very proud of. And I think the community and Hornsby and those that love nature should be proud of. So again, this is a special part of Australia. It's got remnant blue gum, high forest. Huge amounts of biodiversity which we've been able to protect in perpetuity. And yes, I'm very proud of that.

It was really special because that's going to outlive, um, my time on this earth, that's going to be there for future generations to be able to enjoy forever. And that's that's an incredible thing that I'm very proud of. The government I'm part I was part of, should be very proud of. And I think the community and Hornsby and those that love nature should be proud of. So again, this is a special part of Australia. It's got remnant blue gum, high forest. Huge amounts of biodiversity which we've been able to protect in perpetuity. And yes, I'm very proud of that.

Now, you came from a very loving family. In fact, one of the quite moving anecdotes in our Good Weekend story is that when you called your dad to tell him the good news that you'd been made Minister for energy and the environment. So tell us about what happened, what his reaction was.

Now, you came from a very loving family. In fact, one of the quite moving anecdotes in our Good Weekend story is that when you called your dad to tell him the good news that you'd been made Minister for energy and the environment. So tell us about what happened, what his reaction was.

Yeah. Well, um, so we'd won the 2019 election and Gladys Berejiklian asked me to be her Minister for Energy and Environment. And at the time, I was kind of shocked because I thought I'd upset her. This was at the height of the climate wars in the Liberal Party. I think Malcolm Turnbull had just been deposed, the National Energy Guarantee had been ripped up. And I thought, oh my God, what have I done to upset the Premier, who was my my friend and my mentor, but it was incredibly special for our family. My father started his career in energy and electricity at the then Sydney County Council. He started as a clerk and he spent his entire career over 40 years there working in the energy sector. Um, now, when I called. So as soon as Gladys got off the phone with me, I called mum and dad and dad answered the phone and I told him the news that I'd been asked to serve New South Wales as the Minister for energy, and dad went silent. I've never heard my dad silent before, but, um, he handed the phone to mum and mum said, oh, he's in tears. Um, so it was a very, very special moment for me. And I guess the, the story is that dad spent his whole career trying to build the energy system which served our state and our country so well, and I represent a new generation trying to build our energy system that will serve our state and our nation for future generations. So hopefully I've done him proud and hopefully I've done the people of New South Wales a service in setting us up for future success as we transition from older technology to newer technology.

Yeah. Well, um, so we'd won the 2019 election and Gladys Berejiklian asked me to be her Minister for Energy and Environment. And at the time, I was kind of shocked because I thought I'd upset her. This was at the height of the climate wars in the Liberal Party. I think Malcolm Turnbull had just been deposed, the National Energy Guarantee had been ripped up. And I thought, oh my God, what have I done to upset the Premier, who was my my friend and my mentor, but it was incredibly special for our family. My father started his career in energy and electricity at the then Sydney County Council. He started as a clerk and he spent his entire career over 40 years there working in the energy sector. Um, now, when I called. So as soon as Gladys got off the phone with me, I called mum and dad and dad answered the phone and I told him the news that I'd been asked to serve New South Wales as the Minister for energy, and dad went silent. I've never heard my dad silent before, but, um, he handed the phone to mum and mum said, oh, he's in tears. Um, so it was a very, very special moment for me. And I guess the, the story is that dad spent his whole career trying to build the energy system which served our state and our country so well, and I represent a new generation trying to build our energy system that will serve our state and our nation for future generations. So hopefully I've done him proud and hopefully I've done the people of New South Wales a service in setting us up for future success as we transition from older technology to newer technology.

I always wonder about how people handle the media and and when you when when you've got a public profile, what your parents must feel when they see you kind of knocked down and criticised in the public space. How do you deal? How have you dealt with the media over the years? The Murdoch press in Australia has been pushing climate change denialism. Um, seeing it as part of their conservative position as a newspaper for a decades. Um, you've been long been a magnet for outrage. Um, I'm thinking of the most incendiary stuff often came from Alan Jones. Tell me about how you dealt with that. And maybe give an example with Alan Jones. For argument's sake.

I always wonder about how people handle the media and and when you when when you've got a public profile, what your parents must feel when they see you kind of knocked down and criticised in the public space. How do you deal? How have you dealt with the media over the years? The Murdoch press in Australia has been pushing climate change denialism. Um, seeing it as part of their conservative position as a newspaper for a decades. Um, you've been long been a magnet for outrage. Um, I'm thinking of the most incendiary stuff often came from Alan Jones. Tell me about how you dealt with that. And maybe give an example with Alan Jones. For argument's sake.

Well, Alan was always very good to me, and I had a very good relationship with him personally. But we had very different views on this topic, and I think that story is one that was I tried to make sure was representative of my time in politics, that you could have different views with people, but you could be respectful about it. So there are plenty of people that don't agree with me on a whole range of things, but that doesn't mean that I was disrespectful to them. I always try and front up and argue my case, whether it be with climate deniers or climate believers. I think that's the role of public servants like me to front up to explain the decisions that I had made and how I'd drawn those conclusions, and to enter into public debate. That's what makes our democracy strong. But I mean, with regard to some of those views, I mean, much like climate science. There's signal and there's noise, and climate deniers fit the latter type. A clue is the absence of of people with real experience, in their opinion, rants or on their pet panels. You know, I deal with the facts. I speak to the specialists. Climate deniers might try that for a novelty at least. Fortunately, most Australians accept the climate is changing and understand the role humans play, whether it's burning fossil fuels or other emitting activity. So again, I'll continue to speak up for the facts. And I'd suggest to those climate deniers they try that for a change.

Well, Alan was always very good to me, and I had a very good relationship with him personally. But we had very different views on this topic, and I think that story is one that was I tried to make sure was representative of my time in politics, that you could have different views with people, but you could be respectful about it. So there are plenty of people that don't agree with me on a whole range of things, but that doesn't mean that I was disrespectful to them. I always try and front up and argue my case, whether it be with climate deniers or climate believers. I think that's the role of public servants like me to front up to explain the decisions that I had made and how I'd drawn those conclusions, and to enter into public debate. That's what makes our democracy strong. But I mean, with regard to some of those views, I mean, much like climate science. There's signal and there's noise, and climate deniers fit the latter type. A clue is the absence of of people with real experience, in their opinion, rants or on their pet panels. You know, I deal with the facts. I speak to the specialists. Climate deniers might try that for a novelty at least. Fortunately, most Australians accept the climate is changing and understand the role humans play, whether it's burning fossil fuels or other emitting activity. So again, I'll continue to speak up for the facts. And I'd suggest to those climate deniers they try that for a change.

Yeah. Sometimes the climate change deniers are backtrack a little bit and just say, oh, I'm just a I'm just a climate change skeptic. I don't think there's enough evidence that's shifted a bit in recent years, but it was very much the kind of the, the position that many, you know, what they described as climate change sceptics took. Um, but of course, it's a, it's a bunch of hooey really, because climate change Skepticism is Israeli climate change denial isn't it? Doesn't amount to the same thing.

Yeah. Sometimes the climate change deniers are backtrack a little bit and just say, oh, I'm just a I'm just a climate change skeptic. I don't think there's enough evidence that's shifted a bit in recent years, but it was very much the kind of the, the position that many, you know, what they described as climate change sceptics took. Um, but of course, it's a, it's a bunch of hooey really, because climate change Skepticism is Israeli climate change denial isn't it? Doesn't amount to the same thing.

Well, it.

Well, it.

Is pretty much the same thing. I mean, the facts are pretty clear. The overwhelming majority of the world's scientists and peak scientific bodies are unequivocal about this. So we either trust the scientific knowledge and human reliance on science. There's propelled us to where we are today as a civilization, or we pick and choose which bits we like. I know that science has underpin our advancement as a civilization, and I'm willing to back the science, and I think that's what we should get behind.

Is pretty much the same thing. I mean, the facts are pretty clear. The overwhelming majority of the world's scientists and peak scientific bodies are unequivocal about this. So we either trust the scientific knowledge and human reliance on science. There's propelled us to where we are today as a civilization, or we pick and choose which bits we like. I know that science has underpin our advancement as a civilization, and I'm willing to back the science, and I think that's what we should get behind.

So we had many years of confused policy coming out of Canberra, climate change denialism, climate change scepticism and all this amounted to a kind of road blocking on action in this country, on climate change. And of course, it also created a lot of uncertainty for businesses. In fact, you could argue that it hobbled Australia's economy for some years. What's your take on that?

So we had many years of confused policy coming out of Canberra, climate change denialism, climate change scepticism and all this amounted to a kind of road blocking on action in this country, on climate change. And of course, it also created a lot of uncertainty for businesses. In fact, you could argue that it hobbled Australia's economy for some years. What's your take on that?

Well, I think the physics trumps politics and money beats rhetoric. And much like King Canute, people like Donald Trump is yelling at a rising tide. You know, sure, some US projects will be stopped and cancelling offshore wind permits will happen, as Trump has done. They'll generate a lot of headlines, but I'm confident that companies investors will look through the fog of this climate skirmish and remain on the hunt for its profitable over the longer term, sustainable investment in both senses of the word. Will there be casualties and setbacks? Of course. Gutting climate science and sacking meteorologists won't just hurt the United States. The past generosity of US open source science, whether it's monitoring coral bleaching in the Great Barrier Reef or the changing salinity and temperature of the Southern Ocean, has been a boon for Australians. Other global agencies can fill some of the void and Australia will have to step up too, as it's very much in our interest to do so. But what I will say is that I'm optimistic, but also realistic. We hope the Americans, we hope that business, with their enormous talent and often abundant kindness and goodwill, will rejoin this march of history as soon as possible.

Well, I think the physics trumps politics and money beats rhetoric. And much like King Canute, people like Donald Trump is yelling at a rising tide. You know, sure, some US projects will be stopped and cancelling offshore wind permits will happen, as Trump has done. They'll generate a lot of headlines, but I'm confident that companies investors will look through the fog of this climate skirmish and remain on the hunt for its profitable over the longer term, sustainable investment in both senses of the word. Will there be casualties and setbacks? Of course. Gutting climate science and sacking meteorologists won't just hurt the United States. The past generosity of US open source science, whether it's monitoring coral bleaching in the Great Barrier Reef or the changing salinity and temperature of the Southern Ocean, has been a boon for Australians. Other global agencies can fill some of the void and Australia will have to step up too, as it's very much in our interest to do so. But what I will say is that I'm optimistic, but also realistic. We hope the Americans, we hope that business, with their enormous talent and often abundant kindness and goodwill, will rejoin this march of history as soon as possible.

But you can argue that within Australia itself, because of prime ministers like Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison, that businesses within Australia were unsure, weren't weren't sure footed because they were getting all this climate change denialism coming out of Canberra. So did we lose some precious years of, um, of, um, technological and economic development on reducing emissions through that very what you call, I guess, federal roadblocks of sorts.

But you can argue that within Australia itself, because of prime ministers like Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison, that businesses within Australia were unsure, weren't weren't sure footed because they were getting all this climate change denialism coming out of Canberra. So did we lose some precious years of, um, of, um, technological and economic development on reducing emissions through that very what you call, I guess, federal roadblocks of sorts.

Well, there's no doubt about that. I mean, uncertainty is risk for business. It means they won't invest, they won't deploy their capital, and that means you're not going to see new capacity built into our energy system, new innovations being available to businesses and families across Australia. So what we need is policy certainty. And the way to achieve that is finding a bipartisan approach to getting that done. That's what we did in New South Wales. I reached across the aisle. I worked not only with my colleagues in the Liberal Party and the National Party, but we built a grand coalition with the Labor Party, the independents, everyone across the New South Wales Parliament to legislate the biggest renewable energy policy in the nation's history. And it's already stood the test of time. It survived one political cycle, and it will continue to survive political cycles because we brought people together to legislate it in the state's interest. And my message to those listening today is we need more politicians willing to act in the national and community interest, rather than their own political interests. That's how we'll get things done. That's how we'll set our country up for the long term. And that's something that I'll continue to try and be a champion for in my role as the independent climate chair.

Well, there's no doubt about that. I mean, uncertainty is risk for business. It means they won't invest, they won't deploy their capital, and that means you're not going to see new capacity built into our energy system, new innovations being available to businesses and families across Australia. So what we need is policy certainty. And the way to achieve that is finding a bipartisan approach to getting that done. That's what we did in New South Wales. I reached across the aisle. I worked not only with my colleagues in the Liberal Party and the National Party, but we built a grand coalition with the Labor Party, the independents, everyone across the New South Wales Parliament to legislate the biggest renewable energy policy in the nation's history. And it's already stood the test of time. It survived one political cycle, and it will continue to survive political cycles because we brought people together to legislate it in the state's interest. And my message to those listening today is we need more politicians willing to act in the national and community interest, rather than their own political interests. That's how we'll get things done. That's how we'll set our country up for the long term. And that's something that I'll continue to try and be a champion for in my role as the independent climate chair.

Now, Matt Kean, I'm going to put on a climate change deniers cap, and I'm going to put to you some of the arguments that, um, that they roll out. So I'm interested in what your responses are going to be. Government policies designed to reduce emissions are bad for business for profit margins, especially in a country like Australia, which has rich deposits of coal and gas deposits we depend on for our wealth. So, uh, why are we letting climate change, ah, reduce the, uh, trajectory of our economy?

Now, Matt Kean, I'm going to put on a climate change deniers cap, and I'm going to put to you some of the arguments that, um, that they roll out. So I'm interested in what your responses are going to be. Government policies designed to reduce emissions are bad for business for profit margins, especially in a country like Australia, which has rich deposits of coal and gas deposits we depend on for our wealth. So, uh, why are we letting climate change, ah, reduce the, uh, trajectory of our economy?

Well, it's a ridiculous argument. I mean, curbing asbestos was bad for that industry also. And tobacco companies would have a smoke more too. The reality is that the great bulk of remaining fossil fuels need to stay where they've set said for many millions of years just fine. Australia's rich range of minerals, though, means that we can continue to benefit from the flukes of nature. We're a diversified economy and that diversity extends to our dirt. And if we're smart, we can also do a better job at refining or processing more of what we dig up than we have in the past. So there are huge economic opportunities to be had as the world transitions to a cleaner economy, and there's no country on the planet better placed to win that race than Australia. We've got an abundance of natural advantages from our wind and our solar, our renewable energy resource. We've got a huge landmass to be able to host that infrastructure, and doing so, we can get some of the cheapest energy anywhere in the world, and that will underwrite a new era of prosperity for energy intensive businesses, manufacturing industry, um, giving us a competitive advantage. That means jobs, it means investment, and that means economic growth. So to those deniers that say this is bad for business, well, let me say, uh, what's bad for business is holding back the tide of capital and the reality that the world is moving on this and the markets that have underwritten our prosperity for generations want different goods, services and capital from Australia, and we're really well placed to provide it. So let's get on the train and grow our economy whilst protecting our planet.

Well, it's a ridiculous argument. I mean, curbing asbestos was bad for that industry also. And tobacco companies would have a smoke more too. The reality is that the great bulk of remaining fossil fuels need to stay where they've set said for many millions of years just fine. Australia's rich range of minerals, though, means that we can continue to benefit from the flukes of nature. We're a diversified economy and that diversity extends to our dirt. And if we're smart, we can also do a better job at refining or processing more of what we dig up than we have in the past. So there are huge economic opportunities to be had as the world transitions to a cleaner economy, and there's no country on the planet better placed to win that race than Australia. We've got an abundance of natural advantages from our wind and our solar, our renewable energy resource. We've got a huge landmass to be able to host that infrastructure, and doing so, we can get some of the cheapest energy anywhere in the world, and that will underwrite a new era of prosperity for energy intensive businesses, manufacturing industry, um, giving us a competitive advantage. That means jobs, it means investment, and that means economic growth. So to those deniers that say this is bad for business, well, let me say, uh, what's bad for business is holding back the tide of capital and the reality that the world is moving on this and the markets that have underwritten our prosperity for generations want different goods, services and capital from Australia, and we're really well placed to provide it. So let's get on the train and grow our economy whilst protecting our planet.

Climate change deniers cap still firmly on. We keep hearing this term green energy superpower Australia has this this potential. But how would that possibly play out? Because we're not going to be exporting solar power at not at least not in the near future. And most of our panels are coming from China. Anyway, so how on earth do we become this green superpower?

Climate change deniers cap still firmly on. We keep hearing this term green energy superpower Australia has this this potential. But how would that possibly play out? Because we're not going to be exporting solar power at not at least not in the near future. And most of our panels are coming from China. Anyway, so how on earth do we become this green superpower?

Well, we take advantage of our rich natural resources. Our wind and solar, and our renewable energy opportunity will give us some of the cheapest, reliable, clean energy anywhere on the planet that will underwrite a competitive advantage for heavy industry, for manufacturing, for energy intensive processes. That means we'll have a competitive advantage selling those goods and services into the markets that are demanding them. Think Japan. Think Korea. Those economies that have underwritten Australia's prosperity for generations. They're changing the types of things that they want in their global markets. And again, we're really well placed to provide them. And in doing so that means jobs for Australia, that means investment in Australia and that means economic growth for Australia. It's too big an opportunity for us to pass up.

Well, we take advantage of our rich natural resources. Our wind and solar, and our renewable energy opportunity will give us some of the cheapest, reliable, clean energy anywhere on the planet that will underwrite a competitive advantage for heavy industry, for manufacturing, for energy intensive processes. That means we'll have a competitive advantage selling those goods and services into the markets that are demanding them. Think Japan. Think Korea. Those economies that have underwritten Australia's prosperity for generations. They're changing the types of things that they want in their global markets. And again, we're really well placed to provide them. And in doing so that means jobs for Australia, that means investment in Australia and that means economic growth for Australia. It's too big an opportunity for us to pass up.

There are still scientists still wearing my cap here. There are still scientists out there who dismiss or downgrade the risks of climate change, so why should we disbelieve them? You know, there's scientists who say that the problem is being exaggerated. Not a lot, but they're still out there.

There are still scientists still wearing my cap here. There are still scientists out there who dismiss or downgrade the risks of climate change, so why should we disbelieve them? You know, there's scientists who say that the problem is being exaggerated. Not a lot, but they're still out there.

Well, Greg, name a science academy in the world that hasn't joined the obvious dots. If objects stop falling towards the earth or the laws of thermodynamics suddenly broke, we might have reason to challenge the first principles of science. In any case, let them explain why the world's oceans have heated up, lifting sea levels in the process without global warming, or explain away the imbalance between the energy reaching the planet and what is radiated back to space, thanks to the thickening greenhouse gas blanket. Then their arguments might be worth debating. They can't say they aren't, and we should just move on.

Well, Greg, name a science academy in the world that hasn't joined the obvious dots. If objects stop falling towards the earth or the laws of thermodynamics suddenly broke, we might have reason to challenge the first principles of science. In any case, let them explain why the world's oceans have heated up, lifting sea levels in the process without global warming, or explain away the imbalance between the energy reaching the planet and what is radiated back to space, thanks to the thickening greenhouse gas blanket. Then their arguments might be worth debating. They can't say they aren't, and we should just move on.

No matter what Australia does with reducing our carbon emissions on a global scale, it's unlikely, really, that we can make any big difference because we contribute less than 2% of global emissions.

No matter what Australia does with reducing our carbon emissions on a global scale, it's unlikely, really, that we can make any big difference because we contribute less than 2% of global emissions.

Well, that's like saying Australian troops would only be a fraction of the Empire's forces in World War One, or the Allies in World War Two. So why bother joining that? That global effort actually taking into account our big exports of coal and gas, we make up more like 5% of global emissions, even if others burn a lot of it on a per capita basis. One of the largest were one of the largest polluters on the planet, pushing above our weight in a bad way. We're also relatively wealthy and historically have contributed an outsized share of emissions. We also live in a beautiful nature that is at the mercy of a volatile climate. Take rainfall, for example. Before we add to the mix an energized atmosphere, it's very much in our interest to coax other nations to reduce emissions, and we can hardly do that by sitting on the sidelines until others take the lead.

Well, that's like saying Australian troops would only be a fraction of the Empire's forces in World War One, or the Allies in World War Two. So why bother joining that? That global effort actually taking into account our big exports of coal and gas, we make up more like 5% of global emissions, even if others burn a lot of it on a per capita basis. One of the largest were one of the largest polluters on the planet, pushing above our weight in a bad way. We're also relatively wealthy and historically have contributed an outsized share of emissions. We also live in a beautiful nature that is at the mercy of a volatile climate. Take rainfall, for example. Before we add to the mix an energized atmosphere, it's very much in our interest to coax other nations to reduce emissions, and we can hardly do that by sitting on the sidelines until others take the lead.

We're now entering. Still with my climate change deniers hat on. We're entering a very uncertain world now. We've really seen that in the last couple of months. The global balance of power is changing quickly, appears to be moving away from the West. We could soon be facing a world in which every country is some vying for itself. Australia is particularly vulnerable because of our geography, also because of what's been happening with America and national and and our future national sovereignty. So why should we prioritise climate change policy when we've got so many other damn serious issues to deal with.

We're now entering. Still with my climate change deniers hat on. We're entering a very uncertain world now. We've really seen that in the last couple of months. The global balance of power is changing quickly, appears to be moving away from the West. We could soon be facing a world in which every country is some vying for itself. Australia is particularly vulnerable because of our geography, also because of what's been happening with America and national and and our future national sovereignty. So why should we prioritise climate change policy when we've got so many other damn serious issues to deal with.

Because it's in our national and international interest to do so? An international arms race would be costly and not make us safer, while diverting resources away from the race to decarbonise. Certainly, it will be hard to avoid the vortex of violence or the threat of it, which is why we must do our best to ensure the current, uh, emissions dissipate rather than expand. We've already locked in our current generation and probably the next couple into dangerous climate change. Future Australians and other nationalities will look back in anger if we haven't done what we could, to spare them of every fraction of a degree of warming that we could. It's not like we have ignorance as an excuse on this topic. We need a coalition of the willing when it comes to halting climate change, and I'm certainly going to continue to be part of that so long as I'm around.

Because it's in our national and international interest to do so? An international arms race would be costly and not make us safer, while diverting resources away from the race to decarbonise. Certainly, it will be hard to avoid the vortex of violence or the threat of it, which is why we must do our best to ensure the current, uh, emissions dissipate rather than expand. We've already locked in our current generation and probably the next couple into dangerous climate change. Future Australians and other nationalities will look back in anger if we haven't done what we could, to spare them of every fraction of a degree of warming that we could. It's not like we have ignorance as an excuse on this topic. We need a coalition of the willing when it comes to halting climate change, and I'm certainly going to continue to be part of that so long as I'm around.

Do you think that, um, attitudes towards climate change are maturing now? I mean, it was only a few years ago that, um, Scott Morrison famously held up that piece of coal in Parliament saying, don't be scared, don't be afraid. Um, well, at that time, we weren't so much scared as really confused by what he was trying to say. But do you ever, um, do you think that that since that time and certainly, um, actually, Malcolm Turnbull, of course, preceded him, but do you think that that the public attitude towards climate change. The understanding of climate change has has grown. And you think public acceptance that yes, this is happening and yes, it's a serious problem has grown.

Do you think that, um, attitudes towards climate change are maturing now? I mean, it was only a few years ago that, um, Scott Morrison famously held up that piece of coal in Parliament saying, don't be scared, don't be afraid. Um, well, at that time, we weren't so much scared as really confused by what he was trying to say. But do you ever, um, do you think that that since that time and certainly, um, actually, Malcolm Turnbull, of course, preceded him, but do you think that that the public attitude towards climate change. The understanding of climate change has has grown. And you think public acceptance that yes, this is happening and yes, it's a serious problem has grown.

I think absolutely. That's the case. I mean, we certainly saw that after the 2019 bushfires, the worst bushfires that we'd ever seen in New South Wales. We saw the Morrison government defeated largely on the back of not having strong enough climate policies. Again, at this election, we've just seen Alfred the cyclone roll through, and there has been an increase in concern about whether or not our major political parties have the policies needed to address these challenges now and into the future. So I think that the public does understand that our warming climate is having an effect on our lives and our livelihoods. You can't not see the images of people huddling on the beach in the middle of summer to avoid these huge blazes. You can't not unsee people's homes being carried away by floodwaters in the northern rivers. This is the reality that scientists have been telling us about for decades. So the public understand this, and I think you'll continue to see politicians and political parties rewarded when they put forward policies that take this matter seriously, but do it in a way that is in our economic interest as well. You can take strong action to reduce emissions while also growing our economy. And I think we proved that as a liberal national government in New South Wales, we continued our economic growth. We continued to manage the budget responsibly, maintaining our state's Triple-A credit rating and putting us on a path to budget surplus whilst taking some of the most progressive climate policies anywhere in the nation. And for those that you, the people that say you can't do both. We proved them wrong in New South Wales.

I think absolutely. That's the case. I mean, we certainly saw that after the 2019 bushfires, the worst bushfires that we'd ever seen in New South Wales. We saw the Morrison government defeated largely on the back of not having strong enough climate policies. Again, at this election, we've just seen Alfred the cyclone roll through, and there has been an increase in concern about whether or not our major political parties have the policies needed to address these challenges now and into the future. So I think that the public does understand that our warming climate is having an effect on our lives and our livelihoods. You can't not see the images of people huddling on the beach in the middle of summer to avoid these huge blazes. You can't not unsee people's homes being carried away by floodwaters in the northern rivers. This is the reality that scientists have been telling us about for decades. So the public understand this, and I think you'll continue to see politicians and political parties rewarded when they put forward policies that take this matter seriously, but do it in a way that is in our economic interest as well. You can take strong action to reduce emissions while also growing our economy. And I think we proved that as a liberal national government in New South Wales, we continued our economic growth. We continued to manage the budget responsibly, maintaining our state's Triple-A credit rating and putting us on a path to budget surplus whilst taking some of the most progressive climate policies anywhere in the nation. And for those that you, the people that say you can't do both. We proved them wrong in New South Wales.

Why do you think that there was this disjunct between the New South Wales state government and your influence, perhaps on the issue of climate change and at the federal level? Because it seems like the New South Wales was, was moving ahead in this, this area, but the federal government, not so much.

Why do you think that there was this disjunct between the New South Wales state government and your influence, perhaps on the issue of climate change and at the federal level? Because it seems like the New South Wales was, was moving ahead in this, this area, but the federal government, not so much.

Well, I'll generously say that the New South Wales economy is different to the national economy. So we don't have as much mining here in New South Wales as maybe, say, Queensland or Western Australia. So the attitudes of those communities are are a bit different. That said, we do have a lot of thermal coal here, but we recognise that global markets are changing and we need to plan for the future. And you can't fatten a pig on market day. As the coal sales from New South Wales diminish to the global marketplace, we need to be preparing for the industries that will replace them. And the benefit is, is for our transition that new industries are emerging, which we can create here in New South Wales, indeed in Australia, creating jobs, driving investment, growing our economy. So we manage the risk of changing global demand by building, seizing the opportunities that are being presented by these global megatrends. That's good government, that's good management. Businesses that see the future, manage the risks of the present are the ones that survive. Those that don't. Well, we all saw what happened with Kodak.

Well, I'll generously say that the New South Wales economy is different to the national economy. So we don't have as much mining here in New South Wales as maybe, say, Queensland or Western Australia. So the attitudes of those communities are are a bit different. That said, we do have a lot of thermal coal here, but we recognise that global markets are changing and we need to plan for the future. And you can't fatten a pig on market day. As the coal sales from New South Wales diminish to the global marketplace, we need to be preparing for the industries that will replace them. And the benefit is, is for our transition that new industries are emerging, which we can create here in New South Wales, indeed in Australia, creating jobs, driving investment, growing our economy. So we manage the risk of changing global demand by building, seizing the opportunities that are being presented by these global megatrends. That's good government, that's good management. Businesses that see the future, manage the risks of the present are the ones that survive. Those that don't. Well, we all saw what happened with Kodak.

Um, many, many of us in Australia have already been directly affected by climate change. I have family in Lismore, in the Northern Rivers, the bushfires of January 2020 and the recent floods and the 2022 floods in the northern rivers, um, they've been they've had very devastating effects on people. Has there been any time, Matt Keen that you've been directly affected for argument's sake, during the the bushfires in in 2020 and early 2020 did where you were living at the time in the northern suburbs of Sydney?

Um, many, many of us in Australia have already been directly affected by climate change. I have family in Lismore, in the Northern Rivers, the bushfires of January 2020 and the recent floods and the 2022 floods in the northern rivers, um, they've been they've had very devastating effects on people. Has there been any time, Matt Keen that you've been directly affected for argument's sake, during the the bushfires in in 2020 and early 2020 did where you were living at the time in the northern suburbs of Sydney?

Well, I mean, it had a.

Well, I mean, it had a.

Huge impact on my thinking. The 2020 bushfires happened at the time that my son Tom was born. It was my first child, and I remember walking out of the birthing suite and walking out of Hornsby Hospital, seeing my whole community shrouded in smoke. Now, that wasn't my childhood experience, and I didn't want it to be my son's childhood experience or anyone else's son or daughter's childhood experience. And as I said earlier, um, taking action on climate change is not something we can put off to the future. By taking action today, we can leave a better future for my son and everyone's sons and daughters. And that's something that is incumbent on all of us to do. So, uh, climate change, those extreme weather events, they have had a profound impact on me. And they certainly shaped my thinking in wanting to fight for stronger action on climate change so that we can meet our responsibilities to the next generation and the generations that follow, and that is to hand them a planet better than we found it. We can do that whilst also growing the economy. And that's when my North Star, since I entered politics.

Huge impact on my thinking. The 2020 bushfires happened at the time that my son Tom was born. It was my first child, and I remember walking out of the birthing suite and walking out of Hornsby Hospital, seeing my whole community shrouded in smoke. Now, that wasn't my childhood experience, and I didn't want it to be my son's childhood experience or anyone else's son or daughter's childhood experience. And as I said earlier, um, taking action on climate change is not something we can put off to the future. By taking action today, we can leave a better future for my son and everyone's sons and daughters. And that's something that is incumbent on all of us to do. So, uh, climate change, those extreme weather events, they have had a profound impact on me. And they certainly shaped my thinking in wanting to fight for stronger action on climate change so that we can meet our responsibilities to the next generation and the generations that follow, and that is to hand them a planet better than we found it. We can do that whilst also growing the economy. And that's when my North Star, since I entered politics.

Is a part of that. You're being able to say to your son or you've got a daughter since then, I.

Is a part of that. You're being able to say to your son or you've got a daughter since then, I.

Think we're about to have a daughter. We're, we're, we're expecting in mid-May, so.

Think we're about to have a daughter. We're, we're, we're expecting in mid-May, so.

Oh, really? Oh, lovely.

Oh, really? Oh, lovely.

Yeah. So a little girl.

Yeah. So a little girl.

Okay. So as part of this, um, you're being able to say if things get a lot worse. Of course, in the coming years, as they get older. I've done my bit, I this is what I have done for your generation. Whether it's worked or not is for you to decide.

Okay. So as part of this, um, you're being able to say if things get a lot worse. Of course, in the coming years, as they get older. I've done my bit, I this is what I have done for your generation. Whether it's worked or not is for you to decide.

Well, I, I didn't want to be sitting in a nursing home with regrets about wasting the moment that I had to make our planet better, our community better, and our economy stronger. And, uh, you know, I, I when I was putting in policies to do those things, I was thinking about my son and everyone else's children and the generations that will come after them. And I hope that when I leave the stage, um, people will say, New South Wales, our country is better because he had a crack. Um, now there are lots of people doing lots of good things, but I hope that I've helped make a difference in this space, and I'll continue to try and make a difference in this space.

Well, I, I didn't want to be sitting in a nursing home with regrets about wasting the moment that I had to make our planet better, our community better, and our economy stronger. And, uh, you know, I, I when I was putting in policies to do those things, I was thinking about my son and everyone else's children and the generations that will come after them. And I hope that when I leave the stage, um, people will say, New South Wales, our country is better because he had a crack. Um, now there are lots of people doing lots of good things, but I hope that I've helped make a difference in this space, and I'll continue to try and make a difference in this space.

So what's ahead of Matt Kean, given we've got federal elections coming up pretty quickly? Um, your chair of the Climate Change Authority. You're again, um, taking taking this very important issue into the public space. What's what's the future for Matt Kean?

So what's ahead of Matt Kean, given we've got federal elections coming up pretty quickly? Um, your chair of the Climate Change Authority. You're again, um, taking taking this very important issue into the public space. What's what's the future for Matt Kean?

Well, who knows what the future holds. But what I will say is that I'll continue to be an advocate for strong climate action in a way that helps grow our economy and our nation's prosperity. So whether that's as chair, as the climate authority, or whether that's as just a citizen of our country, this is something that I believe in. I think it's a huge opportunity for our nation, and that I want to make sure that we can grab with both hands. So I'll continue to be a champion for that effort in whatever capacity I find myself in. But again, who knows what the future holds. But I'll keep continuing to do my best to stand up for facts, to stand up for evidence, and to fight for a better future for our country.

Well, who knows what the future holds. But what I will say is that I'll continue to be an advocate for strong climate action in a way that helps grow our economy and our nation's prosperity. So whether that's as chair, as the climate authority, or whether that's as just a citizen of our country, this is something that I believe in. I think it's a huge opportunity for our nation, and that I want to make sure that we can grab with both hands. So I'll continue to be a champion for that effort in whatever capacity I find myself in. But again, who knows what the future holds. But I'll keep continuing to do my best to stand up for facts, to stand up for evidence, and to fight for a better future for our country.

Matt Kean, thank you very much.

Matt Kean, thank you very much.

Thanks, Greg.

Thanks, Greg.

That was Matt Keen talking with the acting editor of Good Weekend, Greg Callahan on the latest Good Weekend talks. Coming soon. We chat with Andrew Abdo, the CEO of the resurgent National Rugby League, hot off their season opening foray into Sin City. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Greg Callahan is the acting editor of Good Weekend.

That was Matt Keen talking with the acting editor of Good Weekend, Greg Callahan on the latest Good Weekend talks. Coming soon. We chat with Andrew Abdo, the CEO of the resurgent National Rugby League, hot off their season opening foray into Sin City. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Greg Callahan is the acting editor of Good Weekend.