Good Game with Sarah SpainWomen’s college hockey writer Nicole Haase joins Sarah to discuss this weekend’s Frozen Four, the favorites for the Patty Kazmaier Award, the current college-to-pro pipeline and her unique path to covering hockey. Plus, March Madness is upon us, a new rugby era starts now, and a What The Fact about a bracket built on malicious compliance.
- Follow Nicole Haase on social media! She’s on Bluesky here and X here
-
Read Nicole’s reporting for the Victory Press here and for USCHO here! And you can listen to “The PodKaz” here
-
Join our Good Game NCAA basketball tournament Bracket Challenge group here
-
The full March Madness schedule can be found here
-
Watch the women’s hockey Frozen Four! The schedule is here
-
Want a Women’s Elite Rugby refresher? Listen to our episode on the league here
-
Pick up tickets for the PWHL’s Pride Unity games here
-
Make your picks for Starch Madness! Sarah will post them on Instagram so you can vote on each head-to-head battle!
-
We have a new email! Send us a note at goodgame@acast.com
-
Follow Sarah on social! Bluesky: @sarahspain.com Instagram: @Spain2323
-
Follow producer Misha Jones! Bluesky: @mishthejrnalist.bsky.social Instagram: @mishthejrnalist
-
Follow producer Alex Azzi! Bluesky: @byalexazzi.bsky.social
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain.
Where it snowed hard on the first day of spring here in Chicago, but we all know March Madness is the real sign that spring is here. Let the games begin. It's Friday, March twenty first Happy Friday slices.
On today's show, We'll be kicking it with women's.
Hockey writer and co host of the Podcas podcast Nicole Hasey, talking about the women's NCUBLEA Hockey Tournament and tonight's Frozen four matchups, the current landscape of college hockey, her favorites for the Patty Kasmier Memorial Award and the unique and cute way that she was introduced to the game. Plus the NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Round of sixty four tips off today. A new era for rugby in America starts this weekend.
The IOC has a new head honcho, and a women's hockey what.
The fact that'll have you shaking your head. It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what you need to know today in college basketball. March Madness is officially upon us. The NCAA Tournament first round begins today. Games tip at eleven thirty am Eastern, first up number six Michigan and number eleven Iowa State. There are sixteen total contests throughout the day, wrapping up late tonight with number one UCLA playing number sixteen Southern University at ten pm Eastern.
We'll link to the full schedule of games in our.
Show notes and to our Good Game ESPN tournament Challenge group picks lock when that first contest tips at eleven thirty am Eastern, So if you're listening to this early on Friday, there's still time to fill out your bracket. To college hockey, the Frozen Four begins tonight with my number three Cornell Big Red facing number two Ohio State at five pm Eastern, followed by number four Minnesota and number one Wisconsin at eight thirty pm Eastern. We'll have plenty more on those games later in the show, and we'll put the schedule in our show notes. To rugby, the women's Elite rugby season starts tomorrow. The first game of the league's inaugural campaign features the New York Exiles against the Boston ban Cheese on Saturday at three pm Eastern, and on Sunday at two pm Eastern. The Chicago Tempest hosts the Tcgemini of the Twin Cities.
Wondering where to watch well, good news.
The WER announced a partnership with de Zone yesterday, making it the sole home for every match this season. Through the partnership, we'll also get an exclusive midweek highlights show on the network, and the best part, all matches will be available live and on demand for free. Big shout out to friends of the show, WER president Jessica Hammond Graff and Chicago Tempest player Betty Wynn, who we had on back in January during our New Year.
New League's Week. We're excited for you both slices.
Go back and check out that episode to jog your memory about the WER.
We'll link to it in our show notes.
In Olympic news, Kirsty Coventry, former swimmer and winner of seven of Zimbabwe's eight Olympic medals, was elected the tenth President of the International Olympic Committee yesterday. She's the first woman and the first African to ever hold the position at the IOC. The forty one year old beat out seven other people for the job, earning forty nine of the committee's ninety seven votes, and will officially begin her tenure on June twenty, third Olympic Day. She'll fill the seat held by Thomas Bach for the last twelve years. First major event under her leadership will be the Milan Courtina Winner Olympics next year in Italy, less than eleven months away. She'll hold office for eight years through twenty thirty three. Now it's worth noting that Coventry has previously indicated that she would like to see a blanket ban on transgender women competing in Olympic sports, which would be a change from current IOC policy, updated several years ago to give each individual sport federation the ability to establish their own policy. To pro hockey, the PWHL is celebrating all things LGBTQ plus with the Pride Unity Games presented by Elf Beauty on select dates for the rest of the month and in April. At each contest, they'll be special guests, activations, in game, tributes, and partnerships with local and national LGBTQ plus organizations. The celebrations will also include a sick special edition Pride Unity Game logo designed by the artist Eli, a Hamilton, Ontario based queer and transgender creative. The details in the logo are incredible. You've got to check it out. We'll link to the PWHL site where you can get more info and tickets for the Pride Unity Games.
In our show notes, we're.
Going to take a quick break. When we come back, we hit the ice with Nicole Hasey.
Stay tuned.
Joining us now.
She's a hockey writer for us CCHO, co host of the aptly named college hockey podcast The podcas an editor in chief at the Victory Press, and independent publication that covers women's hockey, among other sports. She's mom to Bassett Hound Ripley, and she shares my love of Merrimeco Prince and Alex loves them too.
It's Nicole Hasey.
Hei, Nikole, Hi, thanks for having me.
I was very jealous of your Merrimaco shopping trip that I spotted on your Instagram. I used to have my whole bathroom in La all Merrimaco flowers.
Yes, that was like the first thing I did in Finland.
I have not yet been to Finland, but I imagine if I go, it will be the first thing I did too. Let's talk about how you got into covering hockey in the first place.
So I grew up playing soccer. I was eighteen when the ninety nine ers happened and felt a little like, now, where have you all been? And so I didn't grow up with hockey. But when my now husband and I started dating, he took me to a Wisconsin men's hockey game and I immediately clocked that the women's team was really good, and that was like, why haven't I heard anything about this? And so mostly it's I just sheer stubbornness and the fact that I basically saw in hockey what I had grown up with in soccer. It felt like it was on a similar trajectory but hadn't gotten as far down the path. And so yeah, I just I started. I love the college game. I love college sports more than pro in general. And so yeah, it was mostly just there are Olympians over here on the U or on the Wisconsin women's team, and nobody's paying attention to get through like five dollars. And I just was lucky enough to start watching hockey in two thousand and six when both the Badger men and women won the national championship at the same year, which has never happened before. Yeah, sheer stubborn, mad feminist energy and just really seeing myselfs and wanting these players to grow up differently than I did. They were covered. They want them to have the coverage that wasn't there when I was younger.
I love that.
So what were you doing at the time professionally when you went to that first hockey game and started to think about it?
So I have a degree while I'm old enough that I have a degree in print journalism. You know, all of the other stuff were individual.
Different So kids, there used to be something called paper and then you put writing on it and you'd read it.
Yeah, and the stuff that you don't get paid a lot to do. Those were all different majors instead of one thing that a journalist does. So I've always wanted to get into sports writing. Long story short, I lived in New Orleans. I went to college there when King Katrina hit so, I at the time had never come planned to come back to Milwaukee, which is where I live, and then did. And at the time, again you had to work your way up on smaller papers. You kind of had to pay your dues in Milwaukee. I was too small a fish and too big of a pond in Milwaukee, and so I was doing a lot of odd jobs, and so when I started covering women's sports, it was just I found someone that had a hockey block and I'm like, hey, Pope, Pope, can I cover the women's side, and just kind of kept with it, and uh, I went full time freelance right before the pandemic, which, hilariously, I thought I was diversified. I cover food, I have a pastry degree, and I cover travel and I cover sports, and all of those things didn't happen. So it's been an interesting journey. But I'm really lucky that my husband is really supportive and I get to full time freelance covering women's sports.
Okay, wait, so is it a print journal as a major with a pastry miner or did the pastry degree come at a different times?
There are separate things. Yeah, pastry. While I thought I wasn't going to be a journalist, it wasn't happening, and I was like, man, I am too young to like be tempting and doing something I hate. So I was like, I'm going to do something else. So I went on a pastry direction and then we're my way back.
Well it sounds like a super fun combo.
Congrats on being able to freelance full time and get to cover this thing that you love and add to it in a way.
That's really necessary.
Producer Alex is a huge hockey person and often talks to us about the media desert around women's college hockey in particular. Of course, I'm aware when I go looking for stories about the p WHL that there's not a lot of hockey coverage. I don't often, to be honest, dig into the college hockey scene. So tell me more about just how few people are really doing this for a living.
Well, I'm the only national women's college hockey writer in the country.
One, so one would be the answer.
It's one individual cities where they're you know, there are people in Madison that cover Wisconsin. There are people in Ithaca that cover Cornell. There are people in Boston that cover the Boston schools. But generally, yeah, there aren't a lot. And that's not a career, that's not the thing paying my salary being a national women's college hockey writer. But for me, again, like I said, I love the college team. But everybody that's in the EWHL, seriously, all but ten of them went to North American colleges. A few went to U Sports in Canada. But like ninety percent of the women that were on PWHL rosters to start the season, the preseason camps, I did not redo it once rosters came out, but went into camp played NCAA hockey. Everybody that plays for the US and Canada internationally, that what goes to the Olympics, that plays at Worlds, those are all NCAA products. So like there is a very clear through line where those players are coming from. Sometimes I like to joke like people think they come from the cabbage patch, Like, no, no, they were playing. They're playing in your backyard. You can watch them on ESPN Plus or BTN plus or for a five dollars ticket you could go watch these. So like the University of Wisconsin that's in the Frozen four, there are five players on that roster that'll be at Women's Worlds in a.
Month, unbelievable.
So for me, that's where that connection came from, and that's why the college game for me, it's about getting to see that development. And then like that's why I was in Finland. I was covering what is essentially World Juniors for women in the U eighteen World Championships. So again, all of those players then play in the NCAA and then move on, and increasingly more players in European countries are also coming to the NCAAA, so there's a very clear through line between all of that.
Yeah, and the PWHL does allow for us to not only watch them at the college level, but if we really get attached to a great player, hopefully then follow them at Worlds, at Olympics and in a professional league where we can really get to watch them on a regular basis. So it makes it even more important to cover the college game and get to know some of these players earlier, which brings us to this weekend, the Frozen Four at Rutder Arena in Minneapolis, Minnesota. You're about to hit the road and drive to Minnesota. I'm wondering how many Frozen Fours you've covered. Have you counted them?
I believe this will be my tenth. That is, accepting that there wasn't one in twenty twenty.
When Cornell would have won just both the men's and women's I'm just putting it out there. If the season gets ended right in the middle and you're both the number one team in the country, you are both considered champions. Forever, and that's what we're putting in the books as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, it would have been you know, as I said, Wisconsin did, because it would have been the second time they were both number one teams in the country. That's why it's exciting that Cornell's there again this year. It's taken a little bit of time, but that was such a heartbreaking season for them and sort of such a lost opportunity.
Yeah.
Okay, so ten probably Frozen fours, which is incredible. I want to get to those matchups, but I want to start with something else that happens during the Frozen four weekend, which is the Patty Kasmier Award handed out your podcast, the Podcaz obviously a nod to that award. It's presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division One women's ice hockey, and it does take consideration for character, sportsmanship, some other qualities too.
My first question, and you might not have an answer to this, but have.
You heard ever of a player that was by far the best player and didn't win because of character, sportsmanship and other considerations.
I wouldn't say by far, but I do think that it comes into the conversation. I've served on the committee for the Patty Kaz twice their two year service however you want to call it. But I so last year was the second of two that I did, so I am not on the committee this year. But yeah, it does come up, the number of penalties, the way that people act on the ice, it does come up. It is part of the conversation. Particularly if you're talking about players that are close to each other in stats and things like that, then you might start talking more about great point averages and character and what they do in the community and things like that.
It's interesting we've had conversations in other sports about whether that should be a part of what you're deciding.
I am of the opinion, and maybe.
This is because I got a yellow card every single game of my senior year in field hockey, and I just think that doesn't mean you're a bad person, you're just aggressive.
But I feel like there should be a.
Separate award for best player, and then a separate award for best person, great for the game, good sportsmanship. You know, in the NHL there's an MVP and then there's award for like the good guy. It feels sort of weird to combine the two. It feels very like, I don't know, women's sports like everybody should have fun.
It does feel that way. And you know, women's hockey became an nc sport in the two thousand and two thousand one season, and I do feel like that's very women's sports in two thousand coded right.
Yes, she believes cup esque in its approach.
Yeah, and there is there's a Hockey Humanitarian Award that crosses over men's and women's college hockey and that is given out and so, yeah, it does. It does feel like that could use an update. I will say that this is an award that was started by USA Hockey, which otherwise is not particularly involved in NCAA hockey trading. They started this, and so it is their set of rules that you're supposed.
To and yet it's the biggest, most known one. And I get the impression that probably most of the time it goes to the one that's the best player, and it takes a lot for that to be knocked out by the other qualities for sure.
Yeah, and generally it's when you're narrowing it down, like generally there's one player that sort of stands out ahead but when you're narrowing it down to like, should this be a person that we're even talking about, because when we get down to ten, and that's when the committee meets, we go through it alphabetically. You mentioned, you know, like I've seen them play in here, what you know, opposing coaches, whoever's on the committee, we will talk about it and that's when it comes up. And so I almost wonder if it's like that person even gets taken out of the discussion when that's there interesting, so they might not even make it to the next part.
Right, So we've got three finalists all from the University of Wisconsin this year, Laila Edwards, Casey O'Brien, and Caroline aka KK Harvey.
Is it rare to have three finalists from one squad? Yeah, it's only happened one other time. There is a University of Minnesota squad that had an undefeated season and that season three of their players were Petticas Top three finalists. But yes, it's pretty rare.
Okay, So what do each of these candidates bring to the table. How is this decision going to be made?
You think?
I think that it's going to be interesting, particularly going back to what you asked me, I'm the only national person that covers this, and coaches are, you know, kind of busy coaching their own things. So when you're talking about, you know, some what someone's done for a whole season, there aren't a ton of people that watch all of those games, and so stats are a really high part of sort of deciding who this is and who wins it, and who are the people like it, I think even nominated. But Casey O'Brien leads the country in points. She's had not just a really good season, but a historic season. She broke Hillary Nights all time scoring record at Wisconsin for a career.
Pretty good.
Casey does have is in her fifth year, but at this point she had I think like ten points her freshman year. It was the adjusted twenty one two twenty twenty one season, So at this point the fifth year is definitely gonna be an asterisk. But I to me, it's a little bit of a mood point. She just she was one of the best players in the country last year, arguably could have won the Patty last year, and went out and did a better job this year. She's really good on face offs, which Wisconsin is a puck possession team, so face offs are just super crucial. She's got great hockey IQ and vision, and she's just as good on defense as she is on offense. She's not gonna like chase the player down, but she's gonna go back there in block shots and be a part of that part of the game. So in hockey a two hundred foot player, KK Harvey's probably, if not the best defender in the world, one of the best. At twenty one, she's already been to an Olympics, she's about to get her fifth World championship team. She has gaudy offensive numbers, but that's not the only reason she's good. She's actually a really great defender and that's what leads to her being able to be a great offensive threat. So she's just she can recover, She angles players out so they can't come in at the net. She if she makes mistakes, she's going to make up for it. She's this really great hybrid player where she doesn't lose on either part of her game at either end of the ice. And she's just again, she's twenty one, she's technically a junior. It's amazing to think of what her ceiling can be. She's a player that at the twenty twenty two Olympics didn't get a lot of playing time. And with the Chiane Jigo coaches really got confidence put in her from the new coaching team and told her not to worry about making mistakes, and it's just really opened up her game. And then Leyla Edwards was the first black woman to ever play in the senior US national team. She's the reigning US National Player of the Year from USA Hockey. She's nearly six foot, She's got this massive long reach and what she can do. She grew up as a figure skater. Considering her size, she's just got a lot of finesse, and she's really deft and has an eye for the net and also just has a massive shot. And so she and Casey play on the first line together with Kirsten Sis scary yeah, who was one of the top three last year. And so they're all really good together. And Wisconsin's got this massive, deep squad and even if you take away like some of their blowout games and things like that, they're still leading the country with these massively good numbers. Casey is you know, she's breaking She's in the record books. And because of the early years in hockey we've had like much more disparity where women were putting up one hundred and fifty point seasons. Some of those are never going to be broken. But Casey's in the top five or ten for like ever in women's hockey. She's were the first eighty point season since alex Hertwiner did it.
So starting to understand why Wisconsin was thirty six one and two on the season and comes into this tournament.
Number one is it?
You know we sometimes talk about in certain sports how one position dominates the MVP award, the quarterback, for instance in the NFL.
Is that the case for the CAZ Do you call it the CAZ?
Yes, it is, in that it's almost all forwards. There's only two defenders that have won it. Sophie Jakes, who is you know, doing it a big in the PWHL, and then Angelo Rouguieriro way back in the.
Day, decent player, angela decent player.
And Casey has put up I'm sorry, KK has put up better numbers than both of those two in the years that they won. So historically it's just she's she's having a heck of a season and yeah, so it tends to be forward. It's not necessarily a wing versus a center. But yeah, and I think only two or three goalies have also won it. We now have a Goalie of the Year award. It's only two or three years old. We didn't before, so now goalies tend to not be.
A place for that.
Yeah yeah, okay, So you're not on the board to choose this and you didn't research it, but just out of curiosity, if you had a vote, where would it go?
I think my vote is for Casey O'Brien.
Though.
When I wrote up for Victory Press, like who I thought the case for each player, and man, I was ready to go for a wall for KK Harvey once I finished, Right, yeah, that was like, come on, and she's great. Yeah, but Casey just has really gotten better throughout her career. She's really proven that, like she's a master of the craft, right, Like whatever she's not as good at, she's put in time in and up and down the board, and as a captain, she's just she's really led that team in the eighty some point season. It's hard to argue with It's.
Like you don't want to hold it against her, But then at the same time. It's like when it's so rare for a defender to get to that level, they're even close, you almost want to give it the nudge. Okay, let's get to the games. A little history first though, for those who might not be aware, Ohio State beat Wisconsin last year. So Ohio State's the reigning champs and those two teams have won the last five titles that were contested.
Can you explain the.
Stranglehold that Ohio State and Wisconsin have on this championship?
Sure? And I'll go back a little further because Ohio State made their first Frozen four in twenty eighteen, so you hear big ten school, but they did not put any effort into their women's hockey program until the last seven or eight years. So when you talk about that and having a stringlehold, they do. But that is a fully new situation, which is crazy. And also the last two games were like one nothing games, and so those two teams are just really loaded. Last year, Ohio State had used the transfer portal really well and brought in a lot of older talent players that had been wanting to win national championships and weren't looking to do that at their The CURRK schools and they moved to Ohio State. But yeah, those two two very different styles of coaching. Nadie Musral at Ohio State is fiery, she's she's divisive, but she gets the best out of her players, and the players respect the heck out of her. And she's a tough cookie, but there her teams deliver. And so she's the one that really led the turnaround and forced Ohio State to start paying attention to their program and put money into its work and it's working. So they are Wisconsin's one loss this year, and you know, for them, they're having Ohio State is having a down ish year, right, Like it's all relative, uh, in terms of like more loss than they had in the past. It's a somewhat younger team this year. But you know, Wisconsin's coach is Mark Johnson. They are historically good programed, they get top recruits, they get people that want to stay, and you know, it's just been those two teams sort of playing chess for the last few seasons.
Yeah, Okay, let's get to these matchups this weekend. We'll start with Wisconsin and Minnesota. What's the biggest thing to watch for in terms of either styles or strengths or what will probably decide this game.
Oh goodness. When those two tapes play, they call it a border battle. They've already played five times this year. It's the first time ever Wisconsin has swept Minnesota. That being said, Minnesota has had a massive postseason and they're playing at home. They get to play at their home rank as the number four seed. Those sites are planned way in advance, just like every other you know, postseason, and so they merely made a push to get there. What you will see it is not necessarily pretty hockey, and that is because they are so well matched and know each other so well that they're going to force each other out of their game plan. So it's about who adapts the best. Una Minnesota has Abbie Murphy, who is on the US national team. She's someone that a lot of people like. She's the type of player that if she's on your team, you love her, and if she's on the other team, you hate her. She's scrappy, she is mouthy, she's pushy. She uh, she's Southside of Chicago, Sarah. She's all there you go. Her brothers were wrestlers, so yeah, she's just she's a past and also just one of the best players in the game. She scored to wrap her own goal last week in the quarterfinals. That was stupid good.
I saw that. That was sick.
How she goes is how Minnesota goes. They aren't as deep as Wisconsin, and so if Wisconsin can sort of shut her down, it really requires Minnesota the rest of their forwards to step up, which they definitely have done at times, but it's not necessarily a given. So these two played for their conference title two weeks ago, and Wisconsin scored in the final twenty four seconds to win that game one nothing, no, four to three four four three.
Okay, So it was a back forth but still came down to the last thirty seconds.
Wow.
Okay, So you've given us a couple Wisconsin players and a great Minnesota player. Is there a story from either one of these teams that will have in the back of our minds when we're watching, either a player's personal story or something about the team that's interesting.
Minnesota is a historically really strong program in Lean Talcke, but has not been over the last seven ish years. It's just they had a really great run and they haven't been there yet. So for them, This is all about sort of that return to glory and getting to do it at home, being on home ice. They are obviously still a really good team. They were number four in the country coming in, but the standard there is different. They have a freshman goalie who was not their starter to start the year and she's come in and just played really strong. So for them, I think it's about that sort of replacing Minnesota at the top of the heap. Wisconsin is a one lost team, has all these superstars like for them, it is a championship or bust, and I think if they don't win, it will just be all about sort of that missed opportunity. So there is just a ton of pressure with that. Yeah, and their goalies only a sophomore. She is, however, that was named her first US national team for the upcoming worlds Avian McNaughton. She's very good. Wisconsin. It's about their depth and just what they all bring and it's just like they could have this amazing season and if they won't, they don't win the title. I don't know that anybody. Don't talk about it again.
Right right, Yeah, quick question for you about goalies, And I started like early in my career covering the Chicago Blackhawks. So I was doing hockey from the start, and I've asked us throughout the years, never really truly getting the best answer or an answer that satisfies me about how the goalie position can be the most in flux. You can have a goalie for most of the season and then another steps in and they quote unquote stand on their head, which is what we love to say about goalies playing well and they could take over, or midway through a postseason, a goalie that hasn't played most of the season can step in and end up running the table for the rest of the games. How does that happen and why does that happen? Been at the goalie position in hockey?
I think I honestly, it's part of just like that they're that different breed. They prepared differently. They are because they know that they could go in at any time, Like the third string goalie is preparing like they're going to start heading into a game, and they're doing that the whole season long. And when you're on the bench, it's a bit like being at the back of the ice where you can see everything happening in front of you, and so they are, they're students of the game in that way, So I do think that's some of it. But yeah, I think there's something to be said about kind of always feeling like you need to be prepared and being prepared to play that game even though the chance of you actually stepping on the ice is one per second.
And I wonder if it's also like, not specifically the yips, but like if there's a goalie that has a bad game or is struggling, it hits different than a forward or a different position that struggles.
It feels like there's this like.
Shift in momentum to the other goalie in a way that we don't see with like you're not going to just pull a superstar forward that played the entire season and then not.
Let them back.
Partly also because of obviously line changes, like if they're still struggling, they're going to be in and out as opposed to you're not going to change your your goalie mid game really unless there's a serious issue, so you can't go back and forth and see if they're getting better and you know, knocking the rust off or whatever the yips were are gone.
I've just always found that so fascinating.
Those stories you hear about someone coming in late and just you know, leading a team to a Stanley Cup or something after not playing all year.
It's pretty wild. Okay, let's get to the other matchup.
My corn Ow Big Red taking on the evil and hated and dastardly Ohio State, which happens to be where one of my best friends went, Okay, what are we watching for styles and what will decide this one?
So Ohio State Nadine Mazarral describes her team as relentless. They are a team, particularly this year, that might get scored upon early, but they are they kind of it will start to skap down heill, and it's like if they get one that it's going to come in bunches once they sort of, you know, break the sealing that they are, like I said, a little young. They have joy done upfront again another US national team player, big player, great at finding space in front of the net and sort of planting herself. But they just they come with speed. They really love to be in transition. They come through the neutral zone fast. They will just sort of turn that game around, you know, go from defense to office really quickly, and you have to be prepared for it. I think it's a very different style than Cornell plays. Again, they're not traditional conferences in hockey, but so Cornell plays in the ECAC and the other three teams are all in the w CCHA, and so stylistically that's just going to be a different matchup. Cornell's coach is Doug Dara is a Canadian national team coach, and he focuses on their defense, so unsurprising that team is very good on defense. They also have a top three goalie for the Goalie of the Award and annalis Bergmann. She's a goalie that is played with some men's teams semi professionally. She's just she's a big, strong player, tall, yes, sees the ice really well, covers her crease really well, and so that is going to be an interesting matchup. I'm not sure there are a ton of other goalies that Ohio State is seen like that, But interestingly, we normally don't get a ton of intra conference. These two plans played back in October and Ohio State one seven three, but they're very different teams now and so I'm not sure how much I would take away from that. And that was a close game. Well into the third period, and then Ohio State did what I said before and sort of scores bunches. So I think Cornell has to find that balance between very being very good defensively but not giving up the ability to be offensive and try and score. If they're just only playing defense, that that's just not gonna work for them. But they're gonn they need to try and slow Ohio State down. Cornell is different offensively, It's not gonna be that overwhelming. They're gonna pass, They're gonna have some good shots from the blue line. Some of their forwards are younger as well, Abby Lindsay Avar Abby Adams. So those are the players that I'll be watching for. But it might be Amilely's Bergman versus the Ohio State offense. Now on uh yeah.
You mentioned the difference between the e C A C and the n C HC styles. Can you sort of sum up why they're different. It's w C h A Sorry, sorry.
Sorries.
W C H A is a very physical, much more sort of fights along the board, shoulders or shoulder. There's no right the PWJA has that little bit of contact. There is technically no hitting in the NCAA. That does not mean anything. Anybody who watches it will tell you there's there's a lot of physicality to it, and then it's about possession and really cris passing and just really using that wid of the ice you. Mark Johnson at Wisconsin is sort of one of the wizards of the game, right, and so you're gonna see that in general because of that. No hitting, the women's game to me is more about finesse. You're not running through somebody, you have to get around them, and so you're seeing those tape to tape passes and things like that. E c C has gotten more physical. But one of the problems in all of this is the officials from different common versus officiating difference and so what.
And who will be calling the Frozen four.
It should be somebody that doesn't officiate either of the teams, so it should be a completely different conference. But that means that you have no idea what they're gonna do, So special teams could come into it, just as play the players figure out how the game is going to be called. And I wish that that wasn't such a big thing like that should not play into how any of these games are called, but particularly in the Frozen four in the National Championship, but here we are. Yeah, ECAC tends to be a lot more defensive. First, you're gonna have really strong building out of the back and and sort of having that that core, and then the offense kind of builds from that secondarily, and that's that's true all hockey, but it feels like very defense first in the ECAC.
You gave us a couple of names to watch for on each team.
I'm wondering if there's a great story personal or team wise from either of these or both.
For me, I think Ohio State is one of those teams, Like they got beat in the w CHA semifinal game and maybe Maserel was mad in that postseason and she wasn't mad that they lost, she was mad that they quit. And so that is a team that just even when they're the top team in the country, they play with a chip on their shoulder, and so that is something that's just kind of always going to be the driving like they're always going to be I think they're the underdogs and they have something to prove.
Number four I guess they are now.
Yeah, it makes me wonder if they like if there's a point where if they win so many titles or what, like, what's the point. I get it because we're still in view of them having never played in a frozen four. You know, we're not that far removed from it. But and for Cornell, it's that the WCCHA has won nearly all of the national championships. Clarkson's the only non WCCHA team to have ever won a national championship, and there's that twenty twenty you know, Cornell's sort of lost opportunity, and so for them, it's about you know, breaking up they're in. They're here with three WCCHA teams. To walk out of it with the title would be you know, a huge thing. Wisconsin's been the toppering team for most the season. You know, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Ohio State are three of the top four. There's just that like, we deserve respect, we should be here for their conference and then personally for them to sort of make up for that twenty twenty season.
Yeah, I never knew that.
I thought for sure, like Harvard back in the day had won it all. So there's never even been an ivy of any kind to win.
No, it's wow, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Minnesota, Duloof, Ohio State, and Clarkson that have won all of the titles. Yeah, Minnesota Duluth was the powerhouse early on.
That's wild. Okay, the more you know, my great story. And I mentioned this on the show the other day, was watching the Cornell Elite eight game or is that what we call it in hockey?
I think quarter final quarterfinal. Yeah.
Rory Gilday who had a brain tumor and lost vision in one eye, had to sit out contact sports for a whole year before coming back and is still playing at this super high level, which as someone obsessed with the cutting edge, I was like, oh my god, it's like Douglas Dorsey.
But she's still playing.
Just a great story and what a what a badass. So I'm keeping an eye out for her on Cornell as well. I'm curious as we're watching these games if there are players that you think for sure we'll be seeing in the p WHL in coming years that we should just jot down and say, Okay, which team are they going to end up on and we'll be rooting for them at the pros.
Pretty Much anybody that I've mentioned so far, so all three of those Patty Has finalists. Casey O'Brien is a fifth year. She'll be graduating. Abby Murphy will be graduating. The roster is a little bit younger and so not not necessarily immediately for some of them. Rory's a senior and obviously just depends with with her. What's you know what the future looks like? But yeah, it's it's Lily Delian Das is probably the underrated person or for people who don't pay a ton of attention to women's college hockey. She has scored a ton of clutch goals for them. I can see her making a difference heading into the p WHL. Yeah, I think those are probably my top ones. Yeah.
What about a really great player from a team that isn't in the Frozen four. That would be probably someone we'd say in the pros next year.
Uh, Kulti kelton Kova from Colgate was a.
Patchy can you say that one more?
Tosh? Sure? Culti kelton Kova she is from Colgate. From Colgate, she's check ah, she is. She is this ECAC player that plays a wha style of games. She's real physical, really great on the boards, and she's someone that went from being sort of recklessly physical and not super focused on the finer details of the offense to sort of flipping that around and using her physicality, and she earned her way onto the Czech national team rosters and things like that. She's just a really fun player to watch but also just click kind of deadly with her shot. She's so what I expect to see make big splashes in the future.
And that is the name we'll remember.
And Tessa Janicky.
Oh, Tessa Janicky. Okay, well remember that one as well. Okay, last question for you, p WHL ONL. Like, the WNBA doesn't have a minimum age limit, so a player could in theory declare for the draft without finishing school. Is that something we might see in the future seventeen year olds? This is the way we see fifteen sixteen year olds in the NWSL. Or do you think finishing college and going to college to play first will will be still an integral part of making it to the pros.
Well, I'll throw that back to you with a little flip in the script, which is that we are no longer centralizing prior to the Olympics.
Yeah, and explain to people what that.
Is heading into the Olympics, US and Canada would take their roster usually somewhere between five and ten more than we'll end up on their final roster and have a home pod for a whole year leading up to the Olympics. So they would train and play like local boys teams and whatever they could, but they would all be centralized in one locations. Players would all leave their teams collegiate or pro, and like the players would red shirt things like that, and so we aren't doing that anymore. One of the reasons they did that is because the level of play elsewhere wasn't enough to prepare the players correctly to be ready for the Olympics. Now with the pub they're okay with those players mostly staying with their teams, but that leads out the collegians, and so the plan as far as I understand it heading into twenty twenty six, as collegians would stay with their teams but then be gone a weekend every month as the national teams hold like monthly camps as opposed to doing a full centralization. So that means like could a player that would have come back for their last year now just go ahead and go pro. For instance, Wisconsin's Lacy Eden has another year of eligibility, but she will almost certainly be on that national team. And for her, what's the better situation? Is it to be in college and keep playing there or is it to go to the PWHL and develop that way. One of the factors in the future for that is just going to be if there's enough spaces, like can you go pro and know that you're going to make a team and play their regularly to make it worthwhile? Where is this.
Similar to the WNBA, which was why they made that rule because it was really hard for players to leave college and then not find one of the one hundred and forty four spots and BSOL and there is nil money. Now is that really gotten into the hockey game at these schools where it's a big deal to be on the women's hockey team.
I think it is to some extent. And you know, and there is a limit to how much peed up players are making, so I think we are in an interesting sort of gray area with that where those numbers are close enough that for some teams that it's not the draw of the peed hub isn't enough to maybe pull then they can.
Wait, especially if they get a degree and what that might do for them elsewhere.
I learned a lot Nicole. Thank you so much for coming on. Of course, thanks for so excited to watch these games.
I'm so excited that Cornell is back in the mix, and good luck on the drive.
We look forward to reading your coverage from the Frozen four.
Thank you so much.
We have to take it out the break when we come back.
What the Fact, Jack, Welcome back slices. It's time for another What the Fact. Okay, so we've kind of gushed about all things women's college hockey on this show, but we do have a bone to pick. The women's NCAA tournament field is comprised of just eleven teams, but on the men's side, sixteen teams make it to the Big Skate.
Any idea why, Well, here's the gist.
Up until twenty twenty one, only eight teams competed in the top level NCBA Women's Hockey tournament, which combines divisions one and two, while the men's tournament has long featured sixteen Division one teams. Got that, so eight teams for the women and sixteen teams for the men, a huge disparity.
For years, those.
Involved with the women's game had been calling on decision makers to expand the women's tournament size, and in the fall of twenty twenty one, that call was finally answered, kind of. In response to the March Madness gender equality debates sparked by Sedona Prince and others that year around basketball, the law firm Kaplan, Hecker and Fink, LLP published a report commissioned by the NCAA to review gender inequality within all NCAA tournaments. The report detailed just how unequal the women's and men's hockey tournaments were, with the main stat focusing on disparate participation opportunities. At the time, forty one institutions sponsored women's hockey at the D one or D two level, meaning just nineteen point five percent of teams qualified for the eight team NCAA tournament. In comparison, sixty schools sponsored D one men's hockey with sixteen teams qualifying, So that's twenty six point seven percent of men's teams earning a spot nineteen point five twenty.
Six point seven.
So with that participation stat top of mind, the argument for a larger women's hockey tournament seemed to write itself, but the NCAA responded with a weird ass tournament bracket. That's the definition of malicious compliance. The NCAA essentially said, okay, if about twenty seven percent of men's teams qualify for the tournament, then we'll have twenty seven percent of women's teams qualify too.
Here's the problem.
When you calculate what twenty seven percent of forty one women's college hockey programs is, you get eleven teams. So instead of expanding from eight teams to a much more traditional twelve team bracket, which makes sense and would have represented twenty nine percent of women's teams, a whole two percentage points more than the men's participation rate, the nc DOUABLEA instead introduced an eleven team bracket in twenty twenty two, a format that's been used ever since. You try to build an eleven team bracket, see what happens. This is what the fact brought to you by ELF Beauty. And here's another fact. Companies with diverse leadership make more money. Elf Beauty credit's part of its success to its diverse board seventy eight percent women and forty four percent diverse, and because of that diversity, ELF has delivered twenty four consecutive quarters of sales growth, the only cosmetic brand to grow market share every single quarter. ELF is about including everyone, because when you do, everyone wins. Learn more about what ELF Beauty is doing to help diversify corporate boards, visit changethboardgame dot com. All Right, Slices, we asked you to participate in our good game goat Team Bracket Challenge bracket made by Slice Amanda, and you didn't disappoint you filled it out.
You send them in.
Elizabeth Okie kept it simple when she summed up her bracket, saying, quote always has to be the ninety nine ers certified Slice. Pamela Mudway kept the ninety nine ers love fest goo and picking that squad over the magnificent seven ninety six US Olympic Gymnastics team. She also asks for bonus points for using orange highlighter to fill out her picks. You know, since yell are little orange slices and we like where your head's at, Pamela, you do get bonus points. We're just not sure where you use them. Since you all participated, we figured we should share our picks too, So Alex Mesh, who have you guys?
Dubbed the greatest team of all time. For me, of course, it's got to be the Houston comments. I mean, how do you compete with four straight championships in the first four years of the WNBA. I don't house wait, don't, I don't get it, especially when no other team has been able to touch that feet. We've seen some great teams, but nobody else has done it to this day. It's got to be the comments.
Mm hmm. It's such a good one that I was very tempted to go with it myself, but I let meshe call Dibbs, and I decided to go with Carrie Well Schennings and Misty May, trainer the beach volleyball players. And for me, it's not just that they won three Olympic gold medals. It is that during those three Olympic runs, they only dropped one set, which it's basically like having three gold medals in soccer without ever conceding a goal. Just absolutely wild. So yep, Misty May and Carrie you're my team.
Yeah, it's pretty good.
I've seen them live a handful of times and they are at they were absolutely dominant. Both good answers, in fact, any answer on the board really would be good, especially the trifecta featuring Sarah Span, Jing McMann and Kate Pagan, But I kind of took the youth of the WNBA into account With the commets, it just felt easier to dominate than I'm going with the ninety nine ers. And I know a lot of people are going to answer that other teams might have been more dominant, other teams might have been more consistent across multiple years and competitions, But honestly, for me, the ninety nine ers felt like they truly broke through on another level, on a national or global even scale, and that their impact on the country and on future women's teams in soccer and in other sports is immeasurable. So since we can't name Billy Jean King a goat team, I'm going with the ninety nine ers. But thanks for sending us that, Amanda. That was fun to do, and thanks to everybody who sent their brackets. In speaking of brackets, We've got our starch Madness bracket set, so I'm going to post it to my Blue sky X and Instagram for you slices to check out. You could see the recipes that we selected for the eight team competition. So with eight contenders, we've got four matchups. It's going to be potato corn chowder versus twice baked potatoes tater pigs, which if you don't know what those are, we explained them on a previous episode involving a power drill, a potato, a veggie dog, and some chili. But I'll make sure I make that clear in the vote as well. But tater pigs take on funeral potatoes, corn keish versus potato lotkeys, and sweet potato empanadas versus tacos to pop us.
So I'll post.
Those matchups on Instagram over the next couple days and you could vote on the four dishes that we'll advance to the final four. And then once we've got those four recipes decided, I'll be whipping them up and deciding which to survive in advance to the final eventually naming one superstar Starch the twenty twenty five Starch Madness Champion. But I think we all know the real champion is me because I will get to eat all of them. We love that you're listening, but we want you to get in the game every day too. So here's our good game play of the day. Keep up with Nichole's work. She's regularly published in The Victory Press, where she's editor in chief, and in US College Hockey Online USCCHO. We'll link to both sites in our show notes and tune into the Frozen four tonight if you want extra Brownie points. Definitely put some good energy out there for my big Red. They're chasing the first NCAA title in program history. Not counting of course, they're twenty twenty national championship title that lives in my personal record book. We love to hear from you, and we have a new email address, Good game at acast dot com. That's a good game at acast dot com. We'll also link to it in the show notes, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review like Spence eight eighty one, who left us five stars and wrote love having a daily dose of women's sports tea led by one of the best to do it, and Sespresso, who gave us five stars and said in part I've listened to this podcast since before we became slices. I'm here to tell you that the quality of the interviews, the guests and the subjects discussed are not always the stories we think we want to hear. Rather, they're the stories we never knew we needed to know about. Big ups to Sarah Spain and all the behind the scenes. Thank you Spence eight eighty one.
Thank you s Espresso. Now it's your turn, y'all. If you haven't rated and reviewed yet, what are you doing? Do it? Thanks for listening, See you next week. Enjoy the hockey and.
The basketball and the rugby and the soccer and the good Game, Nicole, Good game, Big Red, Go win a chip.
You not enough eyes to watch all the hockey and the basketball and the rugby in the soccer.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. And I'm your host Sarah Spain,
