Playoffs, Payoffs and Precarious Perspectives

Published Oct 7, 2024, 7:08 AM

The WNBA Finals are half-locked, but that other half is a knock-down, drag-out fight. Plus, under-the-table payments come into the light, new developments around the Christine Brennan interview, and a reminder that (friend) love is all you need. 

Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're reminding you to vote on Fat Bear week. Yeah, we're smashing that vote button for Graser, a big old mama bear who's trying to beat out all the Chalky Boys to defend her title from last year. On today's show, we're going to react to two big WNBA semifinal games and a weekend of finishes and fines in the NWSL, Celebrate Coco's childlike joy, and continue to get your reactions to last week's big interview with Christine Brennan. It's all coming up right after this Welcome back slices. Happy Monday. Here's what you need to know today in WNBA playoff news, The New York Liberty beat the Las Vegas Aces seventy six sixty two in Game four to take their semi final series three to one and eliminate the two time defending champs. Big game from Brianna Stewart. She had nineteen points, fourteen rebounds, and five assists in the win. Sabrina and Escu hot from outside, she hit five of eight from beyond the arc for twenty two points and added seven rebounds.

The difference in this one was a.

Third period during which Vegas just could not capitalize when foul trouble sent Johnqwell Jones and Leoni Phoebich to the bench. Liberty kept it tight throughout with the subs in, and then they used a twenty three to eleven fourth quarter to pull away and win this one. Asia Wilson nineteen points, ten rebounds, five blocks, Kelsey Plump seventeen points. Tiffany Hayes added eleven, but Vegas took the loss. Their record twelve game home playoff winning streak ended, and so did their hopes for a threepeat. You know, props to the Liberty. Gonna be fun to keep watching them. I wanted more games in this series, and I wanted more Asia Wilson. And since she's done, we should take a moment to talk about the season we.

Got from the MVP.

Not just the MVP, Asia Wilson, but All WNBA First Team, WNBA All Defensive First Team, WNBA All Star, WNBA single season rebound record, first one thousand point season in WNBA history, and a gold freaking medal.

So have a year, Asia, and.

Maybe now have a vacation because you got to be tired from Karen that aces team this season.

A trip to Miami.

Perhaps anyway, Aces are going to get some rn R while the top seeded Liberty move on. They'll have home court advantage in the finals where they will face. We still don't know, because the Connecticut Sun beat the Minnesota Lynx in a thrilling Game four.

And that series is going to a game five. On Tuesday.

Back in Minneapolis, it looked like it was going to be lights out for the Sun. They were trailing by seven at the half, but they came out fighting after the break. They took the lead midway through the third, ballooned it up to double digits in the fourth, and a late run from Mini that threatened was not enough. The Sun hold off elimination, forcing that Game five, and Ty Harris was part of the difference. First game back for Harris since injuring her ankle in Game one of the first round. She's one of those three point threats like Marina Maybrey that can go off, and she did not disappoint. Twenty points for a new career playoff high for Ty Harris. Tjna Carrington the primary defender on Courtney Williams for the first time in the series. That made a difference and Alyssa Thomas doing Alyssa Thomas things and more than Alyssa Thomas thinks because she pulled some fadeaways out of her bag, saft touch off the glass, laid on some bank shots. I mean she put in work and she was doing it against the defensive player of the year in the FISA Collier Eighteen points, eight boards, eleven assists for Thomas. Her fiancee Dwana Batter went off in the second half. She was looking at elimination in the face and was like, absolutely not, that is not going to happen. Eighteen points and eight rebounds for dB. Right after the game, dj A Carrington Hotgun Sports Center and she was asked about the boost that her team found at halftime to finish that game strong and stay in it, and she said, quote, at this point in the season, if someone has to tell you to get up for an elimination game, then you probably shouldn't be in this locker room. End quote heard DJA More. Hoops News sad to report that Nika Mule, the former Yukon point guard who just finished up her first season with the Seattle Storm, tore her left ACL in her first game back with Istanbul Bass Club Bashiktash. The injury happened when Mule grabbed a loose ball during the third quarter of her EuroLeague Super Cup game. Bummed to see but the fourteenth overall pick in the W draft is taken. The moment in stride, she posted the Instagram quote, anyone that knows me knows I work my ass off all the time. This time isn't going to be any different. I appreciate all the love and support so much. Y'all really make this easier for my heart. I'm grateful for all the people around me that are true testaments of what belief and perseverance can achieve. After being denied hooping, this is just another opportunity for me to compete, this time against myself.

Not to be cocky, but that's an easy w End.

Quote, especially a bummer because Nika sat on the bench a lot in the W learning in her first season and was probably going to use this time in the EuroLeague to get some reps in and to get even better. Bummed for Unika, wishing you a speedy yet thorough recovery.

Some more W news.

Former Dallas wing coo Amber Coox now the Indiana Fever COO and GM. She's going to officially join Indiana on October twenty eighth. She's also had stints with the Phoenix Mercury and the Connecticut Sun, and she's worked with the Kansas City Current and the Houston Dash of the NWSL. Lynn Dunn, the current GM and former head coach of the Fever, now comes senior advisor to Fever Basketball, the first in the organization's history. Moving out to tennis, Coco Goff defeated Carolina Mohovah in straight sets to win the China Open, her second WTA one thousand title and eighth career title. GoF becomes the first American woman to win Beijing since Serena Williams in twenty thirteen. In the post final pressor, GoF reminded us why she's so fun to root for. She congratulated Mouhova on her tournament in the most Cocoa way ever, saying, quote, congratulations to you, Carolina. It's great to see you back on tour. You're such an amazing player. You deserve everything. Hopefully we play many more finals. I don't want to say I hope some go your way, but maybe against someone else they'll go your way.

End quote.

Coco also posted a picture of the trophy on her Instagram story with a caption referring to folks saying that she only wins WTA two to fifty tournaments aka lower level tournaments, and she wrote, quote she only wins two fifties.

Womp womp end quote. In response, a fan wrote, Coco has the mentality of a five year old. I'm sorry, and I thought.

Coco's response to the fan was beautiful and worth sharing. She wrote, Honestly, kids have the best outlook on life. They're so positive and creative, so I'll take it. My goal this tournament was to play and enjoy tennis as much as I did when I was a kid, because that's when life was slash is.

The most fun end quote. I love it. Congrats on the win.

Coco to soccer a few things in the NWSL, and let's start with money, because an NWSL investigation found that Angel City FC breached the league's salary cap and the club received a two hundred thousand dollars fine plus a three point deduction in the standings. The three point deduction is the largest in NWSL history, and it really hurts a team that's battling several others for a playoff spot. In addition to the fine end points deduction, also two front office members, including team president and CEO Julie Erman, have been suspended from quote conducting duties related to any player transactions end quote until January. An NWSL news release says the violations come from Angel City entering into five side letters directly with players that affected multi year agreements and were not disclosed to the lead league in deals that were executed last year. This compensated the players in excess of what was reported to the league in their contracts. Those undisclosed benefits put Angel City over the salary cap by about fifty thousand dollars for four weeks during the season. Might not sound like that much, but it feels like the NWSL is trying to make an example of them because of just how big and dangerous it might get if sides keep doing the side deals to get players to stick around or sign future deals. NWSL also said it's going to conduct annual investigations and audits of player spending league wide. In game action, the Pride continued their record unbeaten streak with a two nil win over the second place Washington Spirit on Sunday. That's twenty three straight games without a loss. The win also clinched the first National Women Soccer League Shield for the Pride, who secured the league's top regular season record with three games remaining. Also, Casey Current forward ten which Chewinga tied the record for goals scored in a single season. She scored in the second minute of a two to zero win over Racing Louisville on Saturday. The goal mark Tuwinga's eighteenth of the season, which ties the record that Sam Curse with the Chicago Red Stars back in twenty nineteen. Sam still got the backflips after goals, though I haven't seen a single backflip from Chuenga, so I guess something to work on.

Twina's first chance.

To break the record and make it her own is next Saturday, October twelfth, when the Current traveled to face BAFC.

More soccer news and we love this news.

Brazilian and global legend Marta told the Athletics she plans to play pro soccer for at least two more years.

That is a huge sigh.

Of relief on the heels of her retirement from international soccer and after we've already had to deal with the retirements of other players like Alex Morgan and Christine Sinclair and Kelly O'Hara. Important to note, the Paris Olympic silver medalist Marta said she's not sure if she'll remain in Orlando. Her current contract with the undefeated Pride is up after this season. Also some news we've been hoping here for a long time. On Thursday, the FIFA Council pledged a recommendation to the International Olympic Committee to expand its women's soccer competition to sixteen teams. Now you know, the Olympic tourney currently has twelve teams, four fewer than the men. The women's tournament started in ninety six with eight teams. That number goo to ten and four and twelve in eight. It is now FIFA's hope that the switch to sixteen teams will be made in time for the twenty twenty eight Olympics. In La to volleyball, I just want to mention that we are keeping an eye on this San Jose State volleyball story. If you haven't heard, this Spartans team, who started the season with nine straight wins, has had four of their matches canceled recently, and that includes three of their Mountain West Conference opponents, Boise State, Wyoming, and Utah State all choosing forfeits in league play instead of.

Competing against them now.

None of the schools have publicly said why the matches were forfeited, but the presence of a reported transgender athlete on the San Jose State team is believed to be behind the decisions, with her status generating an increasing amount of national media coverage despite her having been there.

For several years.

We're going to get some good reporting on that, so stay tuned for more conversation.

Little Hockey News.

USA Hockey announced the roster for the program's three game rivalry series against Canada this November. Longtime national team style Wars Hillary Knight and Kendall Coin Schofielder on the team, along with nine current college players. PWHL also have some preseason action in November, the league announcing there'll be two concurrent mini camps from November nineteenth through the twenty second. Montreal Victoire will host the Boston Fleet and Ottawa Charge, while Minnesota Frost and New York Sirens will travel to the Toronto Scepters. Each team can bring thirty two players to the camp to play scrimmages. Final rosters will be capped at twenty three active players.

Finally, some fun news.

Glamour Women of the Year were announced and Serena Williams, Sony Lee, and Allison Felix are among those named. Lee battled kidney disease to make it back to the twenty twenty four Paris Games and win gold. We told you all about that during the Olympics. Serena Williams honored for a whole bunch of partnerships and endeavors post retirement, including her makeup line Win Beauty, and a venture fund that focuses much of its investments in founders who are women or people of color. And Felix, well, she won the Face of Change Award. Michael McKenzie wrote of Felix, quote, she might be retired, but in some ways the Olympic track and field legend is just getting started. She's got a new baby, a forthcoming memoir, a NonStop commitment to mothers in sports, and as a result of her tireless advocacy, a twenty million dollar grant from Melinda French Gates end quote.

Pretty awesome stuff. As the WNBA Playoffs roll on.

I want to take a quick second for us all to learn a little herstory.

Shall we a little on this day in women's sports?

So on October seventh, twenty eleven, the Minnesota Links won their first WNBA title, defeating the Atlanta Dream seventy three to sixty seven. Links guard slash forward Simone Augustus named Finals MVP after leading the Links to a sweep in the best of five series. She put up twenty two points seven assists in Game one and a franchise playoff record thirty six points in Game two, including fifteen in the fourth quarter, then playoff record. Of course, we've seen the FISA Kllier do more. Since the Links have won four titles total. They're looking for number five this season, but obviously they got to win on Tuesday to keep their run alive.

We're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, we chat about reactions to our Christine Brennan interview. Stay tuned, welcome back slices. Like I said, lots more WNBA playof talk to come this week. But while the text and emails and voicemails are all still coming in about our Christine Brennan interview last week, we wanted to get into some of your thoughts and also some things we heard from folks in the w space too.

So a couple things have happened since.

Then, and one of them is if you remember, in the interview, Christine Brennan talked about her exchange with Dewanna Bonner and kind of patted herself on the back for wanting to talk more about it, wanting to share the thinking behind her interview with Djane Carrington, and feeling a little bit like Bonner wasn't interested in shaking her hand or engaging. As it turns out, I heard from two sources I made sure to confirm with the second that Brennan actually filed a complaint to the WNBA about that exchange with Dewanna Bonner. Kind of surprising based on how she characterized it in the interview with us, but perhaps not surprising based on the tenor that she takes in some of her work.

Mesh Alex, I want to bring you in on this.

That was kind of shocking to hear that she presented that as this opportunity for her to engage where she was rejected and rather than trying to figure out why do Wanna might not want to shake her hand and get into it.

She filed a complaint. What do you make of that niche It's.

Tough to hear, you know what I mean, It's tough to hear, especially when it was presented in a certain way.

I don't know.

I like to think that we can get past the egos of it all and we can get to a point where, all right, it's no longer about you're right, I'm wrong. It's about what's right for our league and what's right for our relationships player.

To media player.

It's a fan, you know, the other way around. And I'm just it's upsetting that somebody who's been in the game this long, who was telling us about all the things that she knows about being a journalist journalism one O one would then go and do something like that and then misrepresent it in an interview that just, I don't.

Know, it frustrating. It bothered me. It definitely was frustrating. Yeah, and Alex, I can't confirm the language.

I haven't seen the complaint, but the sources told me the language was that Dowanna Bonner accosted her again. This feels like it's that coded language that we are are so concerned with in this league and coded and loaded.

Coded and loaded. Absolutely, yeah, Well what did you make of hearing that?

What stands out to me about all of that is the fact that, similar to how at the end of your conversation with Christine Sarah, she was saying, you know, come and talk to me. I want to hear from people. Maybe she wants quotes for a book, but I don't think she's actually listening to what people are saying. And even in the story that she re kinded to you, Sarah, she's saying, you know, I told Dowana, like here, I'll show you a video of the interview that I did, as if that would change Douana's opinion. Trust that Dowana has spoken to her teammate and is coming at this from a place of understanding what she's talking about, as opposed to if only you see more of my coverage, then you'll understand where I'm coming from.

It's about talking instead of listening, which is what the interview felt like too. Right, Let me give you more of my credentials, let me tell you more people who are going to be part of the book. Let me tell you more of what done instead of let me listen to the feedback that you're trying to give to see if maybe it will change my perspective on what's happened. And we got a lot of great voicemails and emails. I've heard from a lot of folks in the space and in the journalism space, including some who said that their natural reaction was to presume that Christine had been sort of wrongly singled out or attacked, only to learn more of the context, to listen to our interview and feel like they now understood that things were a little different, maybe than what they had imagined. I also had a chance to talk to some players and some folks who had thoughts about the interview, and a couple interesting things came out of that that I can share, which is that the Associated Press Sports Editors reached out to the WNBPA after their statement and wanted to set up a call with them to figure out how they can make sure that their reporters and editors are doing things well, are contributing to the space in a way that's fair, are asking tough questions, doing journalism, but doing so in a way that understands the context in which they're doing it, which I really respected and so did they.

Also.

Interestingly, I found out that the NFLPA has reached out to the WNBA about their locker room decision making as they are pursuing that decision for themselves. We're going to get into that topic of locker room access and the changing space a little bit later this week, but I thought that was interesting too, and it was yet another example of.

The WNBA and the WNBAPA.

Being sort of ahead of the game in sports, looking at a space, looking at interactions with journalists and thinking something needs to change or we can do this better. And the fact that there are people and there are media outlets trying to engage in good faith to say what isn't working and why has this been so tense and awkward this year is really nice to see and they should be called out for doing that. And one of the things that came up in the conversation with the AP sports editors was how to make sure that the headlines of things match the intent of the authors, Because if the columnist is the one doing all the work showing up to practice, showing up to games, interviewing the players, and putting time and effort into having the nuance in it, and then the headline is what ends up being seen and shared, and that doesn't reflect that same nuance that creates some of the issues.

And we talked about this both all of us.

You know, part of it is being lazy in coverage and letting what's out there on social media like the tail wagon the dog. You're supposed to be the one that's creating the content and understanding the stories and leading the way, not following what's being said on social and we heard that from a handful of our listeners. Angelina called in with this really excellent thought, So we'll play this really quick.

What my frustration boiled down to, having listened to that interview in four parts, because it kept shooting my blood pressure up, is that at the core of her defensiveness, at the core of her justification for how she's choosing to move as a journalist, is an unresolvable contradiction. Repeatedly, she said, Twitter's assesspool acts assessed poo, social media dissess will be your trolls. I can't control them. I can't control how people respond. But she can control how she responds to those trolls and the way she has chosen to respond to them is by taking their framing, taking their narratives, and giving it to you, giving her platform to those trolls, giving them a microphone.

I think that really makes sense, Misha and Alex, that yes, you can be a part of the space in part by engaging online and seeing what people are talking about. But you get to choose which of those things you amplify, which things you ask questions about. And Misha, I think that was one of the biggest issues here is to not just shrug your shoulders and say, these are the questions I'm asking because they're out there, but to decide which questions are worth asking, which is what you would do in any space and.

In the time even before we could we confirm this interview with Christine Brennan.

Sarah, I don't know if you remember, but you.

Myself and Alex were having conversations about this exact topic before, and for me, that's always the hill I'm going to die on. I don't care about the ratings. I don't care about what's popular on social media. That's not what's important. What's important is telling the truth and telling the real story that's happening and unfolding on front of our eyes. And when we, like you said, allow the tale to wag the dog, allow everybody and everything that isn't informed on what's happening in this space dictate what we decide to talk about.

Then what are we even doing? Like, what's the point?

I think one of the things I've seen in the last couple of years is that one as an editor, I have had access to viewership data, and I know that if you put Kaitlin Clark in a headline, you're going to get more clicks on it. Put Kaitlyn Clark's photo on the top of story, You're going to get more clicks on it. And I say that because I think you have to acknowledge the reality of what people are up against in terms of deciding what's going to focus their coverage. I'm not saying that you should be putting Kaitlin Clark's name in every headline or that you should be putting her photo on every story. But when editors and writers are under pressure sure to get more clicks to keep their job, that is not creating an environment that is creating the best journalism. And so is there a way to have more of a firewall between those viewership metrics and the coverage that is being done, because to be clear, I think there are plenty of fantastic reporters and editors out there that are not letting those metrics guide their coverage. But having seen it myself, I know that there is often an incentive to do certain storylines because they're going to bring in more viewers.

And that's a great point because I think I even mentioned to both Christine and I've mentioned on in our conversations and in conversations with other people. I'm not blaming people for the amount of Katelyn coverage, and I think looking at white whale in the eye and being like, no, thank you isn't great either, right, And we've seen it in the past. I remember talking to my really esteemed colleague who I respect, really respect, Kate Pagan, about Pagebeckers a couple of years ago and how it was frustrating that it was another white player getting all of the attention while the black players weren't. Right and do we then intentionally not cover her or do we say, this is an opportunity to bring attention to women's basketball, and while you're here, let's yes and it ooh, Paige Becker's and while you're here, check this out too, right, And I think that's the balance you have to seek. The difference is something I said to Christina as well. If you're say ESPN and you know that Caitlin Clark's going to get all the clicks, you can do that if there's a story that makes sense. But if it's like, for instance, what I saw in the playoff game where within two minutes of that play with dj A Carrington, there was a thumbnail image up that said, Kaitlyn Clark black eye.

You know why you're doing that?

And that is something that you have to consider the repercussions of understanding the narratives that exist. I still don't know if ESPN would come back and say, that's a big story people want to see, if people want to know about it. But again, it's like, how do you reconcile your responsibility for driving coverage with your responsibility to minimize harm?

And it's framing. You know, it's framing at the end of the day, if you're just gonna say black eye.

Right, or the worst headline that I called out, the worst head that said that said, you know, Caitlin Clark gets black eye from player who previously mocked her. It's like, what do we this That sounds like you're creating sort of causation correlation thing, which you know. So I think the other thing, speaking of dj Carrington, that we've learned in the last couple of days that you know, talking to people about that exchange in particular, and the larger body of Christine's work that caused the WNBPA to be frustrated was that after her two questions that we did hear, another reporter jumped in to ask dj A about what it was like to plan under a microscope. And then there's another Christine Brennan question, and Alex, I want you to kind of set up this situation and like what people are hearing and how it follows the exchange we've heard a million times from that exchange between Brennan and DJNA.

Yeah. Another reporter jumped in, I think actually kind of building off of Christine's questions of hey, you're playing under a spotlight in which something like you make in contact with Kaitlin Clark is going to lead to stupid questions like these my words not that reporters, right, right, And then Christine jumped in to ask what do you think of Kaitlyn Clark? And a reporter who was part of that scrum sent us the audio and let's just roll that tape. When do you think of.

I don't know.

I don't know.

That's the next question. I think he's a good player.

And yeah, now listen in a complete vacuum. What do you think of Kaitlyn Clark is a perfectly fine question. She's a great player, she's having a great rookie season, she's breaking.

A lot of records.

When you ask that question immediately after the accusatory first question, the follow up that was frankly nonsensical since the laughing caught on camera was three quarters later after someone hit a three and they were doing a celebration.

Then you follow those questions up with what do you think of Kaitlyn Clark?

Again, it's about contact next, and interesting that she didn't include that in the clip that she shared on Twitter, almost as if she understands that that was going to be poorly received. I'm not sure why she didn't understand that the first two would be poorly received, but again, it might be that what we just talked about she knew a lot of people would share it.

And talk about it.

Yeah, for sure, I think it makes her intention behind asking the first two questions even clearer.

Yeah, and again, I just want to reiterate here that the main the thesis here for me is nobody is above correction, nobody is above learning, nobody is above continuing to grow in their reporting. In fact, I think it's a responsibility that we all have. If we're going to call ourselves big j journalists, you can't refuse.

To hear feedback.

And I think it's an issue we see reflected in a lot of different parts of our everyday lives too, Like people just thinking, because I've done X, Y and Z, I'm cool doing whatever, people will believe me. You said it yourself, Sarah. That a lot of folks, before they really understood the context behind what was happening, they were quick to say, you know what, I'm already on Christine's side because I know her body of work, and so I just want this to serve as yet another lesson that you know, age doesn't equal maturity, age doesn't equal wisdom. There are so many different things that we all need to, you know, continue to work.

On as you do, but not just age. Experience and that's that's you know. What I said after our interview is like, yes, there's a body of work where you've taken into context things and you've written with things with nuance, But the fact that you've done that in the past won't mitigate the harm you cause if you aren't doing that now.

And that's the really important part.

I just was going to build off of what Misha said, because I think sometimes people look at the conversations that are being had in the WNBA space as gatekeeping, and I don't. I don't think that that term is accurate for a lot of reasons. In fact, I actually think that having been a new reporter to the WNBA space myself, I didn't really grow up watching the WNB. I didn't grow up playing basketball, and so when I arrived in the space, I had a lot of questions about how things worked. But I came in with questions as opposed to assumptions about how things worked. And I think that was kind of the most disappointing part about Christine's reporting this whole season, is that as somebody with so much experience in the sports world, having a fresh perspective can be so valuable to seeing this thing doesn't make sense to me, or there's a better way to do this, or why are players not being marketed? But instead of coming in with those questions and asking questions, she came in with a thesis yeah, and then ask questions to help support it.

You know, one of our slices actually wrote us something really thoughtful about that. We got to take a quick break when we come back. You'll hear that slices commentary.

It's coming up right after this Welcome back. Slice's just a couple more thoughts on this.

And I mentioned before the break that there was a Slice who wrote in with some interesting thoughts that parallel some of what Alex just had to say.

So this is from Stacy.

She wrote, quote, yes, she can make an observation and write about Caitlin Clark's impact on the league, but she didn't care enough to go any further on the WNBA as a whole in its history is a reflection of her what bias Caitlin clark fangirling ability to see herself assists white woman in Kitlyn Clark and be swept up in the frenzy enough to finally pay attention to the w and make herself an authority a privilege not afforded to journalists of color in majority white spaces. Looking at you, Tennis, She could have used her platform and her legions of readers to truly advocate and amplify the league. Yet she consciously or unconsciously focused solely on Kitlon Clark, the bright, new shiny thing.

That's lazy.

She could have made a difference, and instead we just have this perpetuation of shit. She missed a massive opportunity. So here's what I agree with Stacy. I don't think she or anyone would show up to say, an NFL space or an NBA space without putting the work in first. They would be so afraid of the response, right, the criticism from players, coaches, other media. I think there's a real expectation when you showed up to cover something of making sure that you know what you're talking about, even if you're new, and you'll ask questions to make sure that you are doing it right and you get things right. I think she showed up with a real ego about her history, and in that way was pretty disrespectful to the league and its players about what they deserved from a journalist.

Because Alex I.

Just think showing up to a space doing what seems like very little work to understand the nuance in the history and how you might be contributing to some of the issues there is fundamentally sort of disrespectful or presuming that it's small potatoes enough that you don't have to bother.

Yeah, absolutely, I think too. Every space is different, and reporting on figure skating is different than reporting on golf is different than reporting on the WNBA. And I often come back to the fact that we are this is a league where players still do not have a lot of control or autonomy or money even and so the situations that they are being put in while making one hundred thousand dollars a year with that salary, you maybe can't pay for security or a house that makes you feel safe, like all of these things that we expect pro athletes to have in the WNBA, those things aren't always a given. And so coming in and just saying I always ask questions like this doesn't reflect the space that you have entered.

And the specificity of the toxicity around women, black women, right, queer women, mask presenting women, Like at every element that you add, there is more of an inherent lack of safety in society, not to mention when in a spotlight, not to mention when presented as a foe er an.

Opponent to a white lady.

And that matters so much because, yes, black male athletes certainly have to deal with the issues of racism in society. But that's one of the things that is not all of the things I just listed, and that matters so much in terms of whether she considered that in her work.

Right, Mesh.

Yeah, And the other thing I'll add here is that exact descripture you just gave about positive yourself as an expert in a space where you're not an expert. I'm just gonna say it's a few other people who could learn that lesson as well, and I'm gonna drop the Micrade.

Yeah, well, I mean that's what I said at the end of the interview.

That's been all season long, right, has been people with the loudest voice and the biggest platform getting heard the most, not the ones who necessarily.

Know the most.

And I even told you all when we were starting this show, I said to you, I've spent the last thirteen years covering men's and women's sports. I have covered women's sports when I could, I have also covered a lot of men's sports.

I have a ton to learn, meish.

I'm gonna come to you for hoops a lot, because that's what you've been like, really diving in alex I'm gonna come to you for Olympic sports because you're such an expert in that. I'm gonna show up and tell you when I don't know something because I don't need to. I'm comfortable enough with my work and myself to say I don't know all the things and I want to keep learning them. And that's what so many people showed up in this space without doing, and that's tough. A couple last things really quick. You know, when I was talking to some of the players and WNBPA folks about just this general season, the one thing I did say is I don't want it to be sick of fantic or one voice. Because we're all trying so hard to offset years of garbage. There still needs to be journalism done and the players can be respected enough to know that they know the difference between tough questions journalism, the kind of things that you're going to get as a pro athlete as your league gets bigger.

And more popular.

The difference between that in feeding into troll narratives, not doing the work, being lazy, ignoring nuance. And I want to make sure people listen and get that too, because I've seen, you know, during this award season. Not I'm not gonna say bullying, that's like too extreme of a term, but like basically groups of people online being like we got to find out who voted for whatever, like they must be motivated by something beyond opinion, right, And I even felt like we called out Becky Hammond for being like, oh you had to dive into a whole define a feast of Colliers Defensive Player of the Year, And that's just I felt like group think cannot be the goal. Yes, there should be way more understanding of the things at play when someone doesn't get the coverage of sponsorships, the awards, the etc. Potentially because they're a black woman. But also it can't be the reverse of like now everybody has to have the same opinion all the time, or else we're going to presume that they're coming from a bad place and that journalism is like what's going to help the league continue to grow and get better. So that has to be there too, And I think you guys both agree.

With that, right, Oh yeah, definitely, it's it's not negotiable.

Yeah.

One of our callers, I think, admitted to being new to the space, not knowing anybody in the space, including me or Christine. Something that she did say that I thought was meaningful was that as a new fan, she's just looking everywhere to listen and hear people talking about things, and she's trying to learn, and she feels like everyone in the space is so tense. She's like, I'm new, but like all the podcasts I'm listening to, and like your interview and other interviews, everyone feels like they're going to say the wrong thing where there's always like this tension, and that is true. That is how this space has felt all season long. And it's been tough because sometimes you do have a fair question where you do have a different opinion and you're like, I'm not even going to share it. I'd mentioned this before, but like I'm either progressive woke and that's why I'm saying something, or I'm an old white lady and that's why I'm saying something, and either way, someone's going to filter it through that to criticize it. So sometimes I just go all right, I'm saving this for a time I can have more of a conversation on it. But I don't want us to feel that way either, where it feels like, you know, you can't do journalism and have thoughts and positive questions.

I think part of what contributed to that is one the fact that we as a society don't allow a lot of space for gray area.

Right now, right right.

People are complex. Sometimes we agree with them, sometimes we don't. But two, you know, I think we could talk about Christine. It felt like had a lot of blind spots in her coverage of the WNBA and the way that she went fully focused on Caitlin Clark. But I also think stream media has blind spots in the fact that you know, Christine was talking about her resume and all the places where she is asked to speak on these topics because Christine is still known as women's sports person, and so viewers on CNN, viewers on PBS, viewers on ABC are hearing Christine's thoughts, thinking oh, this is a reflection of what's happening in the WBA, and that is then adding to the narratives that we are seeing.

One of our slices pointed that out very wisely too, And actually, someone I know that's writing a book on women's sports said, interesting that that's where Scribner went to someone who hasn't covered women's basketball other than a little bit of Olympic coverage.

Because that's the name that they know.

No, you know, she's written a best selling book, several books, so no shade to that. But it is interesting how sometimes you can become sort of this idea of something and in practice it might not be a reality, and that to great point Alex can lead to the coverage being led by someone maybe that isn't as informed.

Last little thought here.

According to Terry Jackson, she expected people to be asking did the WNBPA react to Greg Doyle at the beginning of the season when he gave Caitlin the her hands and eventually got pulled off of coverage. She said she went to the league on that too, and they didn't really do anything. That it was ultimately his own newspaper that pulled him off. The beat that the league has taken a real hands off approach to regulating who's covering, presumably in an attempt to allow more coverage and more voices and whatever, and that's a push and pull between the league and the WNBPA about what's opening up the league to more publicity and more eyeballs and what's potentially not helpful to the league. I do think that Christine Brennan was singled out because of expectations for her right and because of the influence she can have as somebody who is seen as somebody who covers women's sports and speaks for women in a very different way than other places that do shit coverage, but people don't expect much from them.

Yeah, I just wanted to add one thing to that because, again, like I mentioned, I a few years ago new to the space, and at that point I was writing for NBC as a full time editor, but basically a writer. And the point I want to make is that a lot of people on the outside may not realize that most of the people in the space are not being paid and so there are far fewer professionals and I'm using the term professional there meaning being paid full time getting health benefits to do this work. That's not an indication of the work that they are doing, because oftentimes they are doing work that meets professional guidelines. And so I think going just big picture. This is a space where there has not always been an outlet to take control over its reporters if they are not acting in a healthy, respectable manner towards players, because that is usually where the outlet would come in to say, hey, Greg Doyle, you're out of line. You're not covering the fever this season. But because USA Today did not do that with Christine, and because she works for an outlet that typically would do that, unlike plenty of other spaces in the WNBA media space, I think that's also where this is coming from.

One percent, one thousand percent, And that's a great point because especially a lot of startup, smaller websites or places, they're not going to have the same just general guidelines or idea of how to control the reporters that work for them, or a desire to abide by an expectation. So that's that's a really great point. There's so much more we could say on this. We so appreciate the feedback we've gotten. That was a tough interview and it was frustrating at times, and I hope that some of the responses just get Christine to just assess, you know, some of what she's doing and I really appreciate all y'all sticking with it and listening and sending us all that feedback.

We love that you're always listening. But you know, we.

Always want you to get in the game every day too, So we do have a quick good game play of the day. It's simple, just give us one of your favorite Asia Wilson memories of the season. It's so easy to overlook greatness. So while Asia's season might be done, we still want to know what you'll be thinking about this year, next year, for years to come. Do you have a favorite play pregame fit the White Tea era.

A Twitter response to Sid Colson.

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Watch Friends that Feel Like Family, rating a bajillion out of a bajillion belly laughs review you know it's cool.

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As I said the words friends that feel like Family, The ones you call with good news and bad news. The ones that know the names of all your ex'es and your crushes, your favorite foods, your favorite bands, your favorite vacation spots, and you're thinking about.

Those people right now. That's cool.

What's also cool is if nobody came to mind for you, that just means your friend family is still getting ready for you to find them. Friendship is one of the best things that we get while we're here.

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