If something unallogative. I'm a good friend native. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you by my Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about what it really means to be a good friend. And I have conversations with some of my best friends, some people I've never met, and sort of everything in between. So I hope by the end of it that you have a really good sense of what friendship means to me and the people that I consider friends. And I hope you can take those same ideas into your own friendship groups, and I hope you enjoy it. I don't know. I analogative and a good friend. Welcome to the good Friend Podcast. My good with a capital G, two big ohs, and a capital D for Diana. UM, my good friend Diana Walker, who is graciously agreed to let me taunt her on national podcast. It's hard having such a young friend. Hello, Diana, Welcome to our conversation. Oh, thank you, Jamie. I'm very happy to be here. Yes, Um, for the uninitiated listener, I am going to just set this stage a tiny bit, UM. My guest, Diana Walker is a world famous, many award winning photo journalist who has run backwards with long lenses UM while President's Jog for over thirty years covering the White House for Time magazine. She has many Time covers to her credit. She UM is particularly well known for her behind the scenes work, very quietly with her like a M six camera, and Um has earned not only the respect of her colleagues and her subjects, but has has proven such trustworthiness that so many request her to be the photographer to get the behind the scenes UM, which is I think tells you everything about my guest. She is that person. UM. And here's how we met, which is so wonderful. We both happened to love nature, and we both happened to have the privilege of having homes outside of our main homes in the mountains. And uh we my husband and I went to a nature conservancy or a wild what was it nature conservancy? Diana uh, Wilderness Society the Wilder Okay see the Wilderness Society of fundraiser UM which Diana and her husband Mallory had been kind enough to offer their home to host it. And Christopher and I arrived We didn't know the walkers. We arrived, you know, uh, it was outside party. But I found myself immediately staring at the photography inside of their home. And there were particular pictures above the fireplace, um by a nature photographer who shot pictures of animals at night. And I stood there looking at them, and this woman walked up and said, oh, do you like those? And I was like, yeah, how how when were those done? Do you remember what year or approximately what year those photographs were taken? Eight? Yes, eight ninety four. They were very old and they're spectacular, and um, you know, we talked about them, and then you know, there was the fundraiser part and then we left. And I ended up going that next day to a slide show that she was doing about her work as a photojournalist. And I sat in the front row, and I believe I asked many many questions. I'm curious about lenses and all sorts of technical things. I am a photographer, like to pretend to be one. Then, you know, left thanked her again for that. And when I was making True Lies and I was in Washington, t c. And my daughter and her nanny, Laurel, came to visit it was Laurel's thirtieth birthday, and we arranged a White House tour and so Annie, Laurel and I went to President Clinton was in the White House. We got to visit with him, which was very sweet. And as we were being escorted out on a little bit of a tour, we passed the press room and as we passed it, I got about fifteen ft past it, and all of a sudden I heard in the background, hey, you, And I turned around and it was Diana Walker. And in that moment, she literally took me under her wing and not only took my daughter and I out that weekend, but then had me over as a social friend and introduced me to her friends, and it began a lifelong friendship that we have been best friends since. You know, I don't like to interrupt you, but you are leaving out a very important um part of our meeting, because one would wonder why I wanted to continue knowing you. You were standing in front of all of those pictures taken in eight and you turned to me and you said, did you take them? Still? It is a surprise that I yelled at her from the press room, but she did look familiar and I thought we might have known each other sometime in the mountains. So there we met. We met in Washington, d C. We met at the White House, and you know, I was there by myself, without my family, UM, very separated. UH. I had left my daughter at home, she was in school. I felt very conflicted. I was lonely. I didn't really have any friends on the movie, and this woman showed up in my life. And what then happened, as happens in friendships, is that you start to peel the onion of uh what it looks like, and then you just find more and more um depth and strength of flavor and vision. And Diana is raised on the East Coast um, and I like to refer to her as being somebody who was raised well, raised well, had um exposure to a cultural life uh and intellectual life UM. And I felt very interested in her life. And so I want to start, Diana by asking you about your early friendships. You went to a girls school, correct, Yes, I did, called the Potomac School and Washington, DC for grades one through nine, and the Fox Cross School, a boarding school in the hills of Virginia. And at that my experience with you are certainly knowing you, Um, you made good friends there, Yeah, I certainly did. What was the draw? What were the friends? What was the connective tissue besides just being, you know, a bunch of girls living together in this in the school. I think the connective tissue was in those days, we were at a boarding school, um where you weren't let out very often, and we felt we were suffering together, that we had to stay on campus all weekend and that kind of thing, and so we were all miserable together. I think that was the connective tissue. But I have found through my adult life that every time I have had the opportunity to be with one of the people I knew, I have enjoyed them enormously. And part of that, I think is sharing the experience that we both had at this oh what, in my view now is a wonderful boarding school in the hills of Virginia. But back then it was a long way from New York City or Los Angeles or wherever the students came from, and we had to stay on campus all the time, and it was pretty strict um and you started to take pictures there. I actually started at the Potomac School when I was much younger, and I took such awful pictures that I look at the yearbook pictures now and I think, oh, how did they let do that? Um, they're just terrible. And I saw I started there and one of the reasons I chose Fox Grow to go to was they had a great dark room. And when I toured the school among uh other boarding schools in New England, um, I was sold right away. There was this beautiful dark room with not not being used very much, and I thought, this is great and it was, and I took lots and lots of pictures. I got better at taking pictures, thank god. But um, yes, that's where I really started to take pictures. A good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break, So stick around, friend, don't no idea. Obviously, I know a lot about your life. Um uh, you know a lot about my life. And you know, as friends, we have shared a lot of our histories and um, you know, the thing that has always been interesting to me is you as a young mother and wife. Um in Washington, d C. Your mother owned a dress shop. You had one particular girlfriend, the woman I'd like you to talk about, who you both had kids, at the same time, and it has always been such an example to me you, by the way, or an example of a good friend. Diana Walker is a great friend. Diana Walker loves her friends and has them all over the world, and it's just a testament to the type of person you are and the respect that you give your friends. But I also interested in, like, where did that sort of come from? So, um, the particularly that early part of your life. Can you talk a little bit about that, you know, I'm not sure where it came from. Um. My father had very few, but very strong friends. He was a doctor and was kind of busy all the time, but he had one particular friend whom he spoke to every day, and it was a wonderful, humorous, warm, fabulous friendship. And maybe I learned a little bit about it from him because that man had some terrifically difficult um things happened to him in his life, and my father never left his side. He always said, he is my friend, and I will help him through this terrible time. You know. I was obviously I knew you were going to call and talk about friendship, and I thought to myself, how do I really feel about my friends? Um, You're very generous to say I have lots of them. I wouldn't say that, but the friends I have, UM, I care very very much about. And I wrote down something that I've always remembered, UM, that was written by E. M. Forster. And I don't know if I wrote it down. No, I don't think I did. UM, But I'm going to paraphrase it for you. And it it is if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the u to betray my country, and I believe that very strongly. Um. And I'll go. I'll go wherever I have to go with my friends because they mean a great deal to me, and I will protect them, I will be loyal to them, and I'll always be there, Uh, you know, behind the cameras somewhere hiding in the in the pool of pap Rozzi when Jamie Lee Curtis goes by. Yeah, Um, that made me very teary. You know. It's you and I have talked a lot about the imprint of our parents and the imprint of parents on children per se, and how do you individuate, how do you become your own person? Have your own mind, your own ideas, not just becoming sort of cookie cutter of your family and yet at the same time really respect the great aspects of them that you take in and metabolize into your own being. And that's a great example, just a beautiful example to say, this is what my father did. And I know I saw that and recognized that as a part of human connection. That is something I want to carry forward. Yes, you and I spoke about the book I had just finished reading the other day, um, which was another English novel called Howard's End, And in in it there towards the end of the book, Um, you quoted and wrote to me what it was about the book that you remember, and which was stunning to me that you could just pick it up out of your head back there somewhere all about connection, it says, and I quote, only connect. Only connect the pros and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer, Only connect, and the beast and the monk, robbed of the isolation that is life to either will die. Only connect. It is the purpose of our lives. Well, it's very exciting when when you connect. You know, it happens at different times in different places. I remember when I was in boarding school, I was riding a horse around the inside of a riding rate because m Foxcroke was known for its riding teaching, and it didn't interest me at all. The dark room interested in me, but I still had to take one semester of riding horseback, if you can imagine. And I was going around following the leader board, absolutely out of my mind when all of a sudden, this classmate of mine I had hardly known because we were both new girls that year and we just really didn't know each other, And all of a sudden Brooks said, God damn it, I hate to ride, and I said, Holy Moly, so do I and the two of us that was the beginning of a wonderful friendship went on for years. You know, you it It sometimes takes something you hate. Um, it's sometimes it's a mutual love of something, uh, and you're the only other person who loves it. So many friends. UM. My husband was on this very podcast and David nick turn his best friend from childhood, and what they talked about was the connection through music that they both loved bluegrass music, and at the time it was a sort of arcane form of music that was not part of the folk scene. It was not rock and roll. It was bluegrass. And that was their connect the dot it. It brought them very close and then through the activity of playing the music together, that cemented that beginning relationship for them. It has carried on obviously many many many years. You and I have that same thing with photography, with cameras. Um, Diana, as I said, is a professional photographer. Let's just say the word professional. Um, I am an amateur photographer. I take a good picture. I'm not gonna say I'm a you know, shite photographer. I'm I can compose a beautiful image and expose it correctly and all the rest of it. Blah blah blah. Yeah, you're not kidding, It's true. Yeah, I know. But at the same time, I am not a professional photographer and you are. But Diana, as I mentioned, uses an older but not obviously exclusively but primarily used a La M six, which is a beautiful camera film camera. Uh. And it it require is all manual settings. You're setting everything. There's nothing automatic about it at all. And I got Alika because I watched as our friendship grew, I watched her use it, and she would. One of the great things of having a photojournalist as a best friend is whenever they show up, as Diana said, she hid behind her camera and I'm gonna explore that with you in a minute. So don't think I'm letting you off the hook with that one, lady. But there is a great ease because if you have a best friend who's a photo journalist, they're that camera is it is a part of them. That camera is never not around her neck. And therefore, if she comes over and the kids are playing in the backyard, Diana nature as a photojournalist is going to pull that camera up and start taking pictures and then lo and behold. You know, a week later, an envelope shows up and you're like, oh my goodness, because these amazing images show up. Um. And so yes, uh, I had the experience of witnessing you with your likea and then I got a like a and then it became a like a like a conversation between the two of us, and had that has remained solid for all these years that we've known each other. Now, yes, it did becomes solid. Um, But of course sometimes I didn't like it when your picture when we both were standing there in an alley taking pictures, and yours turned out much better than mine. We had an incident outside Buckingham Palace in uh in the nineties sometime um when Jamie was with her family outside Buckingham Palace and I was with her, and along came a wheelchair with this absolutely lovely elderly lady and gonna stop you. I'm going to stop you one second. I'm just going to set the stage. Sorry to interrupt. I was raised better than to just sort of jump in, but I'm going to stop you for ten seconds. It was v E Day in London. We were making the sequel to a fish called Wanda. Um Uh. It was V Day and we went with my neighbors, the Morrises, and Diana was visiting and we all went to bucking And Palace along with five million other people. So it wasn't just you know, a stroll. We were in a mob of people on V Day, um going to bucking In Palace And it was a big v E Day? Was it the four manniversariss It was a big fift It was the fiftieth anniversary of v E Day. And it was packed, and Diana and I both had our like a M six is and then this woman was wheeled forward holding a flag. I believe now Diana can continue her story. And I don't know what had happened to Jamie's camera. I think maybe it had no more film in it or something. And I was taking pictures of this wonderful lady. She really encapsulated the whole whole wonderful celebration, um, mostly because we knew she'd been there, and she was she was absolutely lovely, and all of a sudden, Jamie came and said, give me, give me, give me, give me camera. Oh my gosh. So I gave you the camera and you stood there and you shot three or four pictures. Gave me my camera back. So then I continue taking pictures. Okay, weeks later I processed the contacts or and there are these pictures of this um lady. And I thought the beginning pictures were pretty good. Then I thought the next kind of pictures along the line were really good, and then I thought, well, they're not so good here at the end, and so um, I thought, well, Jamie began, I'm in the middle and she's at the end. Well, of course, when she saw the contact, she said, Uh, Diana, you were at the start. I was in the middle, and you were at the end. And she has claimed that over the years that she took the best pictures on that role. And now here we are on national podcast, we have a listener. We are friendly with that listener. So there is at least one person. So here we are who took the picture? Diana? I did, and I've left it in my will and I've I've written all over it saying do not let her claim this picture. I took it. I took it. I took it. Okay, Well, there you go. That's called a good friend. That's good friends are all about, right, they have good friends, have harmony, rap poor, empathy, generosity, generosity, tolerance, tolerance. Here that word good friends are tolerant of one another, unselfishness, affinity, comradeship, and even the word philanthropy comes into the dictionaries. Uh, what do you call it? A description of good transcription of of friendship something. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break. So I want to go back for a moment with you because we're going to discuss philanthropy in a minute. Um, I do want to go back to the where I was earlier, which is you're a young married woman, you have one young child filed another on the way, your mother owns this dress shop, you worked with your mother, and you made this friend with this woman. Can you talk about that early because since I've known you, you have mentioned that as being such a significant friend. And I think my listener, even though we don't know who they are, because my heart won't tell me, I believe they are a woman with children. I believe somebody is listening to this as their ironing in their house, honestly, and I and I really have always felt, um, very taken by that early part of your life. Well, I I will abbreviate it um, just because you didn't ask me to be on for an hour, but um, yes I did. I met this um uh, this wonderful woman early in my marriage, and the coincidence when we met, we couldn't quite get over. Um. First of all, um, she when I worked in New York for Vogue magazine before I got married, I used to have to take some time on what we call the model desk, and it was a direct line to Irving Pen and to Bert Stern and to Horst, three marvelous major fashion photographers of the twentieth century, and we had a direct line to their offices to book models and book them for a shoot of new fashions for the next issue. And UH. I were used to call Bert Stern studio and I had a particularly fun time talking to this woman on the end of the phone, called Ale, and she was very funny about Bert and the models and the whole thing, and we used to get a great kick out of it talking to each other. Okay, fast forward a couple of years. I've been married a year and I meet Gail in Washington who has uh. Two years later, we both have little babies. She has a girl and I have a boy, and they're tiny. And um. I said to to Gail, how long have you lived in Washington And she said, oh, only since I was married. And I said when was that and she said September eight, two years ago. And I said, oh, that's funny. That's the same day we got married. And you had a baby two and a half years later, and I had a baby two and a half years later. I mean, this is weird. And it was weird. And so fast forward to abudding wonderful friendship with Gail and her husband in there too too, ultimately two children, just as we had two children. And um, Gail said to me one day, Um, you love taking pictures, don't you. And I said, yes, I really do. I really love it. And she said, why are you working in your mother's dress shop and not taking pictures? And I said, well, the shops there, Um, it's fun. Um. She said, Diana, your mother is really good at it. She doesn't need you, and you don't need the shop. And she said, go take pictures. That should be your life's work. That's what you should do. And I said, oh, Gail, that's a wonderful idea. But how in the world would I start. I I just I don't have the imagination. I don't have h I've never taken a course in photography. I've never worked on a small newspaper. I mean, I don't know where to go and where to start. When I got a lovely husband, in a very nice home and two children, and she said I'll go into business with you. And I said, you know what, and she said yes, Because at Bert Stern I had to help Bert and I was what they call in a studio a stylist. I was a person who got the model dressed and got the right shoes on her and the right jewelry, made sure her hair was combed, and put her out in front of Bert in the studio. I'll do that for you. So if we go on a shoot to take pictures of some one who needs a book jacket taken, I'll make sure that his jacket is buttoned properly and his tires straight, and I'll do the books. I'll I'll send the bills out. And I said, you are telling me that you are going to do this for me so I can start taking pictures. And she said, yes, that's what you call friendship. I think you call a good friend. And what I'm going to do without betraying anything, because of course I am a very close friend of yours and I know a lot is that it was not an easy time for you, that you were having a hard time, and you, in your very sweet way of wanting to focus it on her. Um, I didn't mention that, and it's important, I think from my listener, because that was a lifeline for you. She was saying, I'm here, I love you, I see you. I want to help you. I am your friend, so let's get you taken pictures and I'll take care of all the details. And it began. It got you out of a hard time, and it gave you now a real purpose as a professional photographer. That now, of course, all these years later, we all want to thank her. But the reason I brought up that story or wanting you to touch on that story, is that is friendship. You don't get that often from your family. You don't get it from your mother and father. They have their plans for you, they have their needs of you. You very rarely get it from your spouse because they're also wanting you to be doing the things that helped do the things that keep them doing what they do. You can't get it from your children because they want you, you know, because you're their mama, and and of course that's their job. But you see, it came from a friend. And this is a show called good friend. It is a show about what does that mean? How is that articulated and metabolized into us? And that is the best example of a good friend, Diana Walker, that I know of. Now, we all have friends who suit up, show up for us through hard times. All of it. You know, Um, my friend Debbie Oppenheimer was on this show, you know, sweet deb and she told the story of the day Janet died, that she happened to call the house and Chris had told her, and that she drove over to Janet's house because she knew where it was and just you know, basically walked in and I was up in the room with mom mhm, and I remember the Debbie just walked in and stood there and held my hand, and I remember looking over and there she was. We didn't say anything, We just stood there in the moment. And you are that friend to me over and over and over and over again. And I believe I am that friend to you over and over again. Most certainly are. But that's friendship. That's what it means. That's all of the words you used that you, of course, being well raised and well prepared, had a list of them that you had printed, um, which I do love you for because you're that person. Um. But you know, those are the words of friendship. It's those are the words of this show. This show doesn't exist without the story of that experience in your life with Gail, and other people have different stories, but that has always struck me in all the years I've known you, because she saw something and knew something about you that you couldn't see. And if that isn't the best description of what a friend does for you, um, then I'm not sure what is. And um uh so I appreciate you telling that story. I know you probably were like, why is she telling wanting me to tell this story? Um? Now the other that's the thing that's lovely in a friendship is when your family all becomes friends. And and I know a friend whose family has become great friends with my friend. And it's been wonderful, really, because I watched this friend of mine, um, and I've watched her get to know my two families, my two sons families, and I've watched her gain their trust and their love. And I remember the first day when I saw one of my sons sending me emails, sending me an email, a copy to my husband, a copy to his wife, and a copy to my friend who had become his friend. And I bet you can guess who that is, or was you listeners out there, It was Jamie. And Jamie became that kind of a friend somebody who you know, I look at these things I wrote down, and I look at the I look at the words, and I realized that she is the friend who creates enduring affection. They have for her enduring esteem, and they all have a certain collegial intimacy, and they all have trust and those things. I know that when I leave the planet that my friend my friend. And I'm sitting here talking about friendship with I know, but my friend is going to be that kind of a friend to my two sons, their children and on it will go. Really, and my friend Diana was at my daughter's wedding, and not many people that were close to me were at my daughter's wedding because it was her wedding, not mine. By the way, I had a wedding. Now you know I've and because you are that important in our life, in our family, I appreciate what you wrote, by the way, well well prepared, lady um. And what's important about it is that there's all of the words that you wrote that described friendship could be said and are said about all of those people in all of those relationships. The beauty of a friendship is that it isn't isolated, that it is expansive and reaches all sorts of people. And I have relationships with all of your family, all of them, because they are an extension of you. And that's why I feel that way, and that I want to know them and I want them to know me, even the youngests, even the ones that I'm gonna now that I'm older and I'm not seeing them as often I want. I am the godmother of one of your god grandchildren. I relish those relationships. And again, you and your husband are a great example of that leadership in a family which allows a lot of friends and a lot of um expansion. And I I'm grateful to you. I learned it from you. Philanthropy because you and your husband also are great friends two institutions, two Art two as an example to others that it's bigger than you and your family and your human connections. It's about the expansion of the arts. And if that isn't being a good friend, I mean, what do you call people? We would say the friends of the library, the friends of the museum. Well, you are good friends for the Phillips Collection, you are good friends in the National Gallery. You are good friends to the environment. You are stewards of the environment that doesn't happen without that friendship center that is in both you and your husband. I mean, he's not here to defend himself but you. But I also wouldn't exclude him in that conversation because you are married, and you do that as a married marital group. You are a married couple, and you together are philanthropic, So I'm not gonna exclude him. But all of that, Diana, comes from those deep, important, respectful things that it makes me cry. It's the quote of your dad that that's who you guys are. You will support your friends above anything else. And I know you support your country, and I know you both are politically minded and generous and all the rest of it. But it's your friendships and the way you are friends is an extraordinary gift to the universe. And I am one of the privileged people who um have have been in your sight, in your sight, of your your eye and your heart and your mind and your camera. Um you know you that camera better be buried with you, you know people, I mean that m six better you know be hung around your neck, lady, because it has given my family and so many friends of yours, Oh my goodness, me, I can't even name them all. It has certainly been a a a tool for you to be a friend through your camera lens. And UM, I can't imagine a better friend. I can't imagine a better person to be on this as a representative of friendship than you, and I love you very much. I love you, and thank you very much. And UM for any for anybody listening, anybody out there, find a friend like Diana and do for your friend what Gail did for Diana. If you see them struggling, if you see that they're having a hard time, try to help direct them to something that will lift them and get them out of the rut that they're in, because you just don't know how much that's going to expand into the universe the way it did with Diana Walker and her friend Gail, and UM, it's crucial. And if you take anything away from this podcast, it's that. So thank you for listening. God bless you all, stay safe. Thank you Diana Walker for being a guest on the good Friend podcast. You are a good friend and you are a good Friend. Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of My Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced and performed by Emily King, Unallogative from a good Friend, don't already Native from a good Friend. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or fert you listen to your favorite shows.

If something unallogative. I'm a good friend native. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you by my Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about what it really means to be a good friend. And I have conversations with some of my best friends, some people I've never met, and sort of everything in between. So I hope by the end of it that you have a really good sense of what friendship means to me and the people that I consider friends. And I hope you can take those same ideas into your own friendship groups, and I hope you enjoy it. I don't know. I analogative and a good friend. Welcome to the good Friend Podcast. My good with a capital G, two big ohs, and a capital D for Diana. UM, my good friend Diana Walker, who is graciously agreed to let me taunt her on national podcast. It's hard having such a young friend. Hello, Diana, Welcome to our conversation. Oh, thank you, Jamie. I'm very happy to be here. Yes, Um, for the uninitiated listener, I am going to just set this stage a tiny bit, UM. My guest, Diana Walker is a world famous, many award winning photo journalist who has run backwards with long lenses UM while President's Jog for over thirty years covering the White House for Time magazine. She has many Time covers to her credit. She UM is particularly well known for her behind the scenes work, very quietly with her like a M six camera, and Um has earned not only the respect of her colleagues and her subjects, but has has proven such trustworthiness that so many request her to be the photographer to get the behind the scenes UM, which is I think tells you everything about my guest. She is that person. UM. And here's how we met, which is so wonderful. We both happened to love nature, and we both happened to have the privilege of having homes outside of our main homes in the mountains. And uh we my husband and I went to a nature conservancy or a wild what was it nature conservancy? Diana uh, Wilderness Society the Wilder Okay see the Wilderness Society of fundraiser UM which Diana and her husband Mallory had been kind enough to offer their home to host it. And Christopher and I arrived We didn't know the walkers. We arrived, you know, uh, it was outside party. But I found myself immediately staring at the photography inside of their home. And there were particular pictures above the fireplace, um by a nature photographer who shot pictures of animals at night. And I stood there looking at them, and this woman walked up and said, oh, do you like those? And I was like, yeah, how how when were those done? Do you remember what year or approximately what year those photographs were taken? Eight? Yes, eight ninety four. They were very old and they're spectacular, and um, you know, we talked about them, and then you know, there was the fundraiser part and then we left. And I ended up going that next day to a slide show that she was doing about her work as a photojournalist. And I sat in the front row, and I believe I asked many many questions. I'm curious about lenses and all sorts of technical things. I am a photographer, like to pretend to be one. Then, you know, left thanked her again for that. And when I was making True Lies and I was in Washington, t c. And my daughter and her nanny, Laurel, came to visit it was Laurel's thirtieth birthday, and we arranged a White House tour and so Annie, Laurel and I went to President Clinton was in the White House. We got to visit with him, which was very sweet. And as we were being escorted out on a little bit of a tour, we passed the press room and as we passed it, I got about fifteen ft past it, and all of a sudden I heard in the background, hey, you, And I turned around and it was Diana Walker. And in that moment, she literally took me under her wing and not only took my daughter and I out that weekend, but then had me over as a social friend and introduced me to her friends, and it began a lifelong friendship that we have been best friends since. You know, I don't like to interrupt you, but you are leaving out a very important um part of our meeting, because one would wonder why I wanted to continue knowing you. You were standing in front of all of those pictures taken in eight and you turned to me and you said, did you take them? Still? It is a surprise that I yelled at her from the press room, but she did look familiar and I thought we might have known each other sometime in the mountains. So there we met. We met in Washington, d C. We met at the White House, and you know, I was there by myself, without my family, UM, very separated. UH. I had left my daughter at home, she was in school. I felt very conflicted. I was lonely. I didn't really have any friends on the movie, and this woman showed up in my life. And what then happened, as happens in friendships, is that you start to peel the onion of uh what it looks like, and then you just find more and more um depth and strength of flavor and vision. And Diana is raised on the East Coast um, and I like to refer to her as being somebody who was raised well, raised well, had um exposure to a cultural life uh and intellectual life UM. And I felt very interested in her life. And so I want to start, Diana by asking you about your early friendships. You went to a girls school, correct, Yes, I did, called the Potomac School and Washington, DC for grades one through nine, and the Fox Cross School, a boarding school in the hills of Virginia. And at that my experience with you are certainly knowing you, Um, you made good friends there, Yeah, I certainly did. What was the draw? What were the friends? What was the connective tissue besides just being, you know, a bunch of girls living together in this in the school. I think the connective tissue was in those days, we were at a boarding school, um where you weren't let out very often, and we felt we were suffering together, that we had to stay on campus all weekend and that kind of thing, and so we were all miserable together. I think that was the connective tissue. But I have found through my adult life that every time I have had the opportunity to be with one of the people I knew, I have enjoyed them enormously. And part of that, I think is sharing the experience that we both had at this oh what, in my view now is a wonderful boarding school in the hills of Virginia. But back then it was a long way from New York City or Los Angeles or wherever the students came from, and we had to stay on campus all the time, and it was pretty strict um and you started to take pictures there. I actually started at the Potomac School when I was much younger, and I took such awful pictures that I look at the yearbook pictures now and I think, oh, how did they let do that? Um, they're just terrible. And I saw I started there and one of the reasons I chose Fox Grow to go to was they had a great dark room. And when I toured the school among uh other boarding schools in New England, um, I was sold right away. There was this beautiful dark room with not not being used very much, and I thought, this is great and it was, and I took lots and lots of pictures. I got better at taking pictures, thank god. But um, yes, that's where I really started to take pictures. A good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break, So stick around, friend, don't no idea. Obviously, I know a lot about your life. Um uh, you know a lot about my life. And you know, as friends, we have shared a lot of our histories and um, you know, the thing that has always been interesting to me is you as a young mother and wife. Um in Washington, d C. Your mother owned a dress shop. You had one particular girlfriend, the woman I'd like you to talk about, who you both had kids, at the same time, and it has always been such an example to me you, by the way, or an example of a good friend. Diana Walker is a great friend. Diana Walker loves her friends and has them all over the world, and it's just a testament to the type of person you are and the respect that you give your friends. But I also interested in, like, where did that sort of come from? So, um, the particularly that early part of your life. Can you talk a little bit about that, you know, I'm not sure where it came from. Um. My father had very few, but very strong friends. He was a doctor and was kind of busy all the time, but he had one particular friend whom he spoke to every day, and it was a wonderful, humorous, warm, fabulous friendship. And maybe I learned a little bit about it from him because that man had some terrifically difficult um things happened to him in his life, and my father never left his side. He always said, he is my friend, and I will help him through this terrible time. You know. I was obviously I knew you were going to call and talk about friendship, and I thought to myself, how do I really feel about my friends? Um, You're very generous to say I have lots of them. I wouldn't say that, but the friends I have, UM, I care very very much about. And I wrote down something that I've always remembered, UM, that was written by E. M. Forster. And I don't know if I wrote it down. No, I don't think I did. UM, But I'm going to paraphrase it for you. And it it is if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the u to betray my country, and I believe that very strongly. Um. And I'll go. I'll go wherever I have to go with my friends because they mean a great deal to me, and I will protect them, I will be loyal to them, and I'll always be there, Uh, you know, behind the cameras somewhere hiding in the in the pool of pap Rozzi when Jamie Lee Curtis goes by. Yeah, Um, that made me very teary. You know. It's you and I have talked a lot about the imprint of our parents and the imprint of parents on children per se, and how do you individuate, how do you become your own person? Have your own mind, your own ideas, not just becoming sort of cookie cutter of your family and yet at the same time really respect the great aspects of them that you take in and metabolize into your own being. And that's a great example, just a beautiful example to say, this is what my father did. And I know I saw that and recognized that as a part of human connection. That is something I want to carry forward. Yes, you and I spoke about the book I had just finished reading the other day, um, which was another English novel called Howard's End, And in in it there towards the end of the book, Um, you quoted and wrote to me what it was about the book that you remember, and which was stunning to me that you could just pick it up out of your head back there somewhere all about connection, it says, and I quote, only connect. Only connect the pros and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer, Only connect, and the beast and the monk, robbed of the isolation that is life to either will die. Only connect. It is the purpose of our lives. Well, it's very exciting when when you connect. You know, it happens at different times in different places. I remember when I was in boarding school, I was riding a horse around the inside of a riding rate because m Foxcroke was known for its riding teaching, and it didn't interest me at all. The dark room interested in me, but I still had to take one semester of riding horseback, if you can imagine. And I was going around following the leader board, absolutely out of my mind when all of a sudden, this classmate of mine I had hardly known because we were both new girls that year and we just really didn't know each other, And all of a sudden Brooks said, God damn it, I hate to ride, and I said, Holy Moly, so do I and the two of us that was the beginning of a wonderful friendship went on for years. You know, you it It sometimes takes something you hate. Um, it's sometimes it's a mutual love of something, uh, and you're the only other person who loves it. So many friends. UM. My husband was on this very podcast and David nick turn his best friend from childhood, and what they talked about was the connection through music that they both loved bluegrass music, and at the time it was a sort of arcane form of music that was not part of the folk scene. It was not rock and roll. It was bluegrass. And that was their connect the dot it. It brought them very close and then through the activity of playing the music together, that cemented that beginning relationship for them. It has carried on obviously many many many years. You and I have that same thing with photography, with cameras. Um, Diana, as I said, is a professional photographer. Let's just say the word professional. Um, I am an amateur photographer. I take a good picture. I'm not gonna say I'm a you know, shite photographer. I'm I can compose a beautiful image and expose it correctly and all the rest of it. Blah blah blah. Yeah, you're not kidding, It's true. Yeah, I know. But at the same time, I am not a professional photographer and you are. But Diana, as I mentioned, uses an older but not obviously exclusively but primarily used a La M six, which is a beautiful camera film camera. Uh. And it it require is all manual settings. You're setting everything. There's nothing automatic about it at all. And I got Alika because I watched as our friendship grew, I watched her use it, and she would. One of the great things of having a photojournalist as a best friend is whenever they show up, as Diana said, she hid behind her camera and I'm gonna explore that with you in a minute. So don't think I'm letting you off the hook with that one, lady. But there is a great ease because if you have a best friend who's a photo journalist, they're that camera is it is a part of them. That camera is never not around her neck. And therefore, if she comes over and the kids are playing in the backyard, Diana nature as a photojournalist is going to pull that camera up and start taking pictures and then lo and behold. You know, a week later, an envelope shows up and you're like, oh my goodness, because these amazing images show up. Um. And so yes, uh, I had the experience of witnessing you with your likea and then I got a like a and then it became a like a like a conversation between the two of us, and had that has remained solid for all these years that we've known each other. Now, yes, it did becomes solid. Um, But of course sometimes I didn't like it when your picture when we both were standing there in an alley taking pictures, and yours turned out much better than mine. We had an incident outside Buckingham Palace in uh in the nineties sometime um when Jamie was with her family outside Buckingham Palace and I was with her, and along came a wheelchair with this absolutely lovely elderly lady and gonna stop you. I'm going to stop you one second. I'm just going to set the stage. Sorry to interrupt. I was raised better than to just sort of jump in, but I'm going to stop you for ten seconds. It was v E Day in London. We were making the sequel to a fish called Wanda. Um Uh. It was V Day and we went with my neighbors, the Morrises, and Diana was visiting and we all went to bucking And Palace along with five million other people. So it wasn't just you know, a stroll. We were in a mob of people on V Day, um going to bucking In Palace And it was a big v E Day? Was it the four manniversariss It was a big fift It was the fiftieth anniversary of v E Day. And it was packed, and Diana and I both had our like a M six is and then this woman was wheeled forward holding a flag. I believe now Diana can continue her story. And I don't know what had happened to Jamie's camera. I think maybe it had no more film in it or something. And I was taking pictures of this wonderful lady. She really encapsulated the whole whole wonderful celebration, um, mostly because we knew she'd been there, and she was she was absolutely lovely, and all of a sudden, Jamie came and said, give me, give me, give me, give me camera. Oh my gosh. So I gave you the camera and you stood there and you shot three or four pictures. Gave me my camera back. So then I continue taking pictures. Okay, weeks later I processed the contacts or and there are these pictures of this um lady. And I thought the beginning pictures were pretty good. Then I thought the next kind of pictures along the line were really good, and then I thought, well, they're not so good here at the end, and so um, I thought, well, Jamie began, I'm in the middle and she's at the end. Well, of course, when she saw the contact, she said, Uh, Diana, you were at the start. I was in the middle, and you were at the end. And she has claimed that over the years that she took the best pictures on that role. And now here we are on national podcast, we have a listener. We are friendly with that listener. So there is at least one person. So here we are who took the picture? Diana? I did, and I've left it in my will and I've I've written all over it saying do not let her claim this picture. I took it. I took it. I took it. Okay, Well, there you go. That's called a good friend. That's good friends are all about, right, they have good friends, have harmony, rap poor, empathy, generosity, generosity, tolerance, tolerance. Here that word good friends are tolerant of one another, unselfishness, affinity, comradeship, and even the word philanthropy comes into the dictionaries. Uh, what do you call it? A description of good transcription of of friendship something. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break. So I want to go back for a moment with you because we're going to discuss philanthropy in a minute. Um, I do want to go back to the where I was earlier, which is you're a young married woman, you have one young child filed another on the way, your mother owns this dress shop, you worked with your mother, and you made this friend with this woman. Can you talk about that early because since I've known you, you have mentioned that as being such a significant friend. And I think my listener, even though we don't know who they are, because my heart won't tell me, I believe they are a woman with children. I believe somebody is listening to this as their ironing in their house, honestly, and I and I really have always felt, um, very taken by that early part of your life. Well, I I will abbreviate it um, just because you didn't ask me to be on for an hour, but um, yes I did. I met this um uh, this wonderful woman early in my marriage, and the coincidence when we met, we couldn't quite get over. Um. First of all, um, she when I worked in New York for Vogue magazine before I got married, I used to have to take some time on what we call the model desk, and it was a direct line to Irving Pen and to Bert Stern and to Horst, three marvelous major fashion photographers of the twentieth century, and we had a direct line to their offices to book models and book them for a shoot of new fashions for the next issue. And UH. I were used to call Bert Stern studio and I had a particularly fun time talking to this woman on the end of the phone, called Ale, and she was very funny about Bert and the models and the whole thing, and we used to get a great kick out of it talking to each other. Okay, fast forward a couple of years. I've been married a year and I meet Gail in Washington who has uh. Two years later, we both have little babies. She has a girl and I have a boy, and they're tiny. And um. I said to to Gail, how long have you lived in Washington And she said, oh, only since I was married. And I said when was that and she said September eight, two years ago. And I said, oh, that's funny. That's the same day we got married. And you had a baby two and a half years later, and I had a baby two and a half years later. I mean, this is weird. And it was weird. And so fast forward to abudding wonderful friendship with Gail and her husband in there too too, ultimately two children, just as we had two children. And um, Gail said to me one day, Um, you love taking pictures, don't you. And I said, yes, I really do. I really love it. And she said, why are you working in your mother's dress shop and not taking pictures? And I said, well, the shops there, Um, it's fun. Um. She said, Diana, your mother is really good at it. She doesn't need you, and you don't need the shop. And she said, go take pictures. That should be your life's work. That's what you should do. And I said, oh, Gail, that's a wonderful idea. But how in the world would I start. I I just I don't have the imagination. I don't have h I've never taken a course in photography. I've never worked on a small newspaper. I mean, I don't know where to go and where to start. When I got a lovely husband, in a very nice home and two children, and she said I'll go into business with you. And I said, you know what, and she said yes, Because at Bert Stern I had to help Bert and I was what they call in a studio a stylist. I was a person who got the model dressed and got the right shoes on her and the right jewelry, made sure her hair was combed, and put her out in front of Bert in the studio. I'll do that for you. So if we go on a shoot to take pictures of some one who needs a book jacket taken, I'll make sure that his jacket is buttoned properly and his tires straight, and I'll do the books. I'll I'll send the bills out. And I said, you are telling me that you are going to do this for me so I can start taking pictures. And she said, yes, that's what you call friendship. I think you call a good friend. And what I'm going to do without betraying anything, because of course I am a very close friend of yours and I know a lot is that it was not an easy time for you, that you were having a hard time, and you, in your very sweet way of wanting to focus it on her. Um, I didn't mention that, and it's important, I think from my listener, because that was a lifeline for you. She was saying, I'm here, I love you, I see you. I want to help you. I am your friend, so let's get you taken pictures and I'll take care of all the details. And it began. It got you out of a hard time, and it gave you now a real purpose as a professional photographer. That now, of course, all these years later, we all want to thank her. But the reason I brought up that story or wanting you to touch on that story, is that is friendship. You don't get that often from your family. You don't get it from your mother and father. They have their plans for you, they have their needs of you. You very rarely get it from your spouse because they're also wanting you to be doing the things that helped do the things that keep them doing what they do. You can't get it from your children because they want you, you know, because you're their mama, and and of course that's their job. But you see, it came from a friend. And this is a show called good friend. It is a show about what does that mean? How is that articulated and metabolized into us? And that is the best example of a good friend, Diana Walker, that I know of. Now, we all have friends who suit up, show up for us through hard times. All of it. You know, Um, my friend Debbie Oppenheimer was on this show, you know, sweet deb and she told the story of the day Janet died, that she happened to call the house and Chris had told her, and that she drove over to Janet's house because she knew where it was and just you know, basically walked in and I was up in the room with mom mhm, and I remember the Debbie just walked in and stood there and held my hand, and I remember looking over and there she was. We didn't say anything, We just stood there in the moment. And you are that friend to me over and over and over and over again. And I believe I am that friend to you over and over again. Most certainly are. But that's friendship. That's what it means. That's all of the words you used that you, of course, being well raised and well prepared, had a list of them that you had printed, um, which I do love you for because you're that person. Um. But you know, those are the words of friendship. It's those are the words of this show. This show doesn't exist without the story of that experience in your life with Gail, and other people have different stories, but that has always struck me in all the years I've known you, because she saw something and knew something about you that you couldn't see. And if that isn't the best description of what a friend does for you, um, then I'm not sure what is. And um uh so I appreciate you telling that story. I know you probably were like, why is she telling wanting me to tell this story? Um? Now the other that's the thing that's lovely in a friendship is when your family all becomes friends. And and I know a friend whose family has become great friends with my friend. And it's been wonderful, really, because I watched this friend of mine, um, and I've watched her get to know my two families, my two sons families, and I've watched her gain their trust and their love. And I remember the first day when I saw one of my sons sending me emails, sending me an email, a copy to my husband, a copy to his wife, and a copy to my friend who had become his friend. And I bet you can guess who that is, or was you listeners out there, It was Jamie. And Jamie became that kind of a friend somebody who you know, I look at these things I wrote down, and I look at the I look at the words, and I realized that she is the friend who creates enduring affection. They have for her enduring esteem, and they all have a certain collegial intimacy, and they all have trust and those things. I know that when I leave the planet that my friend my friend. And I'm sitting here talking about friendship with I know, but my friend is going to be that kind of a friend to my two sons, their children and on it will go. Really, and my friend Diana was at my daughter's wedding, and not many people that were close to me were at my daughter's wedding because it was her wedding, not mine. By the way, I had a wedding. Now you know I've and because you are that important in our life, in our family, I appreciate what you wrote, by the way, well well prepared, lady um. And what's important about it is that there's all of the words that you wrote that described friendship could be said and are said about all of those people in all of those relationships. The beauty of a friendship is that it isn't isolated, that it is expansive and reaches all sorts of people. And I have relationships with all of your family, all of them, because they are an extension of you. And that's why I feel that way, and that I want to know them and I want them to know me, even the youngests, even the ones that I'm gonna now that I'm older and I'm not seeing them as often I want. I am the godmother of one of your god grandchildren. I relish those relationships. And again, you and your husband are a great example of that leadership in a family which allows a lot of friends and a lot of um expansion. And I I'm grateful to you. I learned it from you. Philanthropy because you and your husband also are great friends two institutions, two Art two as an example to others that it's bigger than you and your family and your human connections. It's about the expansion of the arts. And if that isn't being a good friend, I mean, what do you call people? We would say the friends of the library, the friends of the museum. Well, you are good friends for the Phillips Collection, you are good friends in the National Gallery. You are good friends to the environment. You are stewards of the environment that doesn't happen without that friendship center that is in both you and your husband. I mean, he's not here to defend himself but you. But I also wouldn't exclude him in that conversation because you are married, and you do that as a married marital group. You are a married couple, and you together are philanthropic, So I'm not gonna exclude him. But all of that, Diana, comes from those deep, important, respectful things that it makes me cry. It's the quote of your dad that that's who you guys are. You will support your friends above anything else. And I know you support your country, and I know you both are politically minded and generous and all the rest of it. But it's your friendships and the way you are friends is an extraordinary gift to the universe. And I am one of the privileged people who um have have been in your sight, in your sight, of your your eye and your heart and your mind and your camera. Um you know you that camera better be buried with you, you know people, I mean that m six better you know be hung around your neck, lady, because it has given my family and so many friends of yours, Oh my goodness, me, I can't even name them all. It has certainly been a a a tool for you to be a friend through your camera lens. And UM, I can't imagine a better friend. I can't imagine a better person to be on this as a representative of friendship than you, and I love you very much. I love you, and thank you very much. And UM for any for anybody listening, anybody out there, find a friend like Diana and do for your friend what Gail did for Diana. If you see them struggling, if you see that they're having a hard time, try to help direct them to something that will lift them and get them out of the rut that they're in, because you just don't know how much that's going to expand into the universe the way it did with Diana Walker and her friend Gail, and UM, it's crucial. And if you take anything away from this podcast, it's that. So thank you for listening. God bless you all, stay safe. Thank you Diana Walker for being a guest on the good Friend podcast. You are a good friend and you are a good Friend. Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of My Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced and performed by Emily King, Unallogative from a good Friend, don't already Native from a good Friend. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or fert you listen to your favorite shows.