If there's something already I know, I'll get it from a good friend. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you by my Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about what it really means to be a good friend. And I have conversations with some of my best friends, some people I've never met, and sort of everything in between. So I hope by the end of it that you have a really good sense of what friendship means to me and the people that I consider friends. And I hope you can take those same ideas into your own friendship groups, and I hope you enjoy it. I don't already a love and a good friends. This thing is going in a ready babe. We are like, no, No, that's how That's how we roll here at the Good Friend Podcast. Is I that's my gotchaman for a minute? Early of course? Oh wow? Was that a little friend snartness? Not at one whit? So let's just ask that question about timeliness because um my our guest our the community of the Ears who listened to our Good Friend podcast, um our guest today is deborrah Ann Oppenheimer, UM, a very close friend of mine for a very long time. But I guess the question is just first off, like does that bother you that I'm super early? And be honest, this is like the moment, like completely like tell the truth. Know it doesn't bother me at all that you're super early. It's just something you have to know about you that if you say you're doing a dinner party at seven, you're going to be there at six thirty. If we're doing this podcast at one, it's not going to start at one. It's going to start before one, and we have to be ready before. But it's exactly one. Now. I was going to say, according to that, but I knew in planning with you that I should try earlier. I wasn't quite as early as I would have liked to have been. But you just know that about you. Okay, But but isn't that friendship? Isn't that basically the whole thing is like you know that about that person. So, and what I would like to say about that is that what I love about our friendship is that I know you and you know me, and to know you means, among many many many other things which I can disclose or not. One has to know you're going, you're early, you are punctual, and you're more than punctual. You're early, And I don't have this. Why would anybody have a problem with that? Well, I think some people do have a problem with it, honestly. And I'm going to say in my defense again since it is my podcast and I controlled the universe. UM, I will say that I don't believe if you call something for seven and I'm there at six thirty, six thirty, I understand, is a little early quarter to seven. Put it this way, I will be in my car in front of your house at six thirty, but I might not ring the doorbell until sixty five, I think. I think fifteen minutes till showtime. Most people have put their clothes on and already doing the final lighting of the candles, which I usually offer to help to do. Um. The minute you said to know you is to love you is the way friendship works. It makes that song. Isn't there a song to no no no you? Is still yes to love love love, And I do if but if you come early, and if you get my seam right or double check how my hair fulls or where if if my something is on straight, then you would do that. So then great, you're a helper when you show up early. Yes, I don't. By the way, I'm not the type of person for those of you who are listening who are going to invite me now over, I'm going to get random invitations. Um. I do show up with an intention to help my hostess or host make make it a successful gathering. I will grab food plates, I will pour almonds out of the can into the beautiful bowl you brought back from Africa and make it look like it's something beautiful. I will certainly lean into that. And if somehow miraculously nothing needs to be done, you don't need attention. You come early, you're there, and you're not while I or whoever is running around bustling trying to get ready. You're not needy and demanding. So that's a really good let's start there that. See, I knew we would find our our doorway into friendship because I think that's a really important conversation. And I'm sure our listeners um will be nodding at this moment because they're our friends who take up a lot of space and are super super needy um for whatever reason, for whatever their psychological makeup is, and that's not been our relationship. I feel like it's a really mutual showing up, suiting up, showing up, helping, leaning into the help, versus the pay attention to me, pay attention to me. But I'm sure you have friends that are the other way and bring charm and wonderfulness to that part of the friendship. I think that's another thing about knowing you, which is that you completely thoroughly come through if I need you. But I don't think your threshold or mine for neediness. That's not a quality we look for in a friend. And and I think that there's a whole other complexity to that, because I think we both do work on ourselves and look inward, and that being needy is something we have feelings about, and so we wouldn't eat. We would have a conscience at a at a time where we are needy and might need something from each other. We have a perspective about that and a threshold for that that we both tolerate and come through for and then also place limits on. That sounds like the most whole relationship I've ever heard described about friendship. Seriously, I want to talk about an aspect of our friendship that that is what I love about a friendship. If I can take over here for a moment, how well, let me just let people know what you do, because then you'll understand why you just took over my podcast. Um So UM. I met Deborah and Oppenheimer through my husband Christopher, two friends of his became very very close friends of mine. UM. Through that relationship through Chris as the portal one of whom is debrah Ann Oppenheimer. And deb produces. So there you understand now why she took over my podcast. She produces. She's the boss um of a lot of people. She does a lot of television, um and has done a lot of television in the past. Um. And also and we will way get into that in a minute. Also on her own, under her own um Internal Drive made took the story of her mother who was one of the Kinder Transport children, one of the ten thousand Jewish children allowed to leave Germany unaccompanied. Her mother who ended up coming to America. Her story was after she died, Deborah picked up and took all the way through making an incredibly powerful documentary called Into the arms of strangers, stories of the Kindred Transport, which one an oscar that year at the Academy Awards. Now I've told deb this many many times. I know a lot of people in show off business. I am friends with a lot of people in show off business, and except for a recent friendship, I have never known anyone who won an oscar. And here my bestie, who I've known since I met Chris, So we're a thirty six year friendship. Through all her own initiative and passion and dedication, um took that story all the way to the highest point that our industry offers, UM and expanded that history through books and education and more and more. So this is a woman who is formidable, which is why she took over my Instagram, I mean my podcast. I do everything by the way I do Instagram, podcasting, I do, I do it all. Um. So, anyway, now that I've introduced you properly so that people now understand why you hijacked my personal podcast called Good Friend, why you can now say whatever you want. Um. So, first of all, I came with props, not that anybody can see it. Wow, there it is okay. So Deborah and Oppenheimer just brought out the oscar, which I remind her often when she's feeling down about um oh, and by the way, we will discuss also the fantastic documentary she made called Foster about the foster care system. And but I do remind her when when the chips are down or when she's feeling a little blue. I do say, you're the only person I know with an oscar. Please just go hold the oscar for like a second, just kind of get that energy off of it and remind yourself that, um you can do anything. Um So, anyway, what were you trying to say about our friendship? I was going to say that probably do you have notes? Okay, the other thing you need to know about Debra Ann Oppenheimer. And I'm saying this, I'm now that people are gonna want to find you. I'm sure there's ways to track her down. I'm not going to tell you how. Um, As I've told all of my guests, I am not selling things here. So yours is actually the only time I've used anyone's credit of what they've done or how they've you know, changed their life. But it's such an integral part of our friendship. For me to be your cheerleader. As you've done that that I felt it was an appropriate place to drop my selling of you know, movies and and and documentaries. But the thing you have to know listeners. Debrah and Oppenheimer takes copious notes. And I say copious, I mean copious, minuscule tiny writing on these myriad um surfaces, pads, notebooks. Um. And if let's just say you the healthy listener is we're past COVID, You've gotten your vaccines, and you want to go to Paris and you need a bra in Paris, Deborah and Oppenheimer will say to you, oh you're going to Paris, Oh you need a brawl? Okay, I want you to call Martin. Here's her number. She works at the Faux Gall boutique on the Russan Honoree and she this is her personal mobile. I also have her mother's email. This is who Debora is. Deborra is a researcher. Debra is someone who is thorough and planned, I believe. Twice she asked me what we were going to discuss here today and I kept saying friendship. She was like, yeah, about like what part of friendship? I'm like friendship. So anyway, you do have notes, please use your notes right now and tell me what you your notes read, because I love you for it. By the way, it's why there's a golden statue at your feet right now, because of that thorough dogmatic mind meld of data and information and the storage of that, and the the train that that leads you to. Sorry, so I don't let you speaking. I don't know this little detail by heart, but I have a note about it. Of course you do in my telephone, which was that you came to New York when Chris was on Saturday Night Live in September, and you were at the Thread Building where you rant, and I don't remember anything about my life. You were at the Thread Building. I come home every year. I'm from New York. I come home every year for Thanksgiving. It's a holiday I love and never missed. And so probably if you came to join him in September eighty four, I'm guessing that Thanksgiving of eighty four, so it's actually thirty seven years. Um. I came walked into that apartment and it was instantaneous. There was some connection between us, which does not always happen for me and I'm sure it doesn't always happen for you. That was absolutely instantaneous and what I love about a friendship, which isn't always the case, but it is in our case that we've known each other for thirty seven years, and so we have evolved, we've changed, we've grown, we've gone through ups, we've gone through downs, we've gone through transitions. And if if by some fantastic stroke of fortune, your friendship withstands those thirty seven years and you still have similar values and similar um interests, If if that friendship can stand up through all of that, it has such depth and it is such a gift, it's so incredibly rewarding. I remember when somebody said to me, well, you may discard some friendships you made part ways with people, and I thought, oh no, no, no, no, no, not me, and come to discover, oh yeah, me, that does happen. But in our case, we've been together for all this time, and I treasure you, I value you, and I love that are still friends, and certainly no end in sight to any of that, no exploration day and locative. I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break, So stick around. I don't know any so I'm going to correct you about one thing, which I promise. If I don't correct you, we will get letters. Heart Radio you know Slash good Friend Okay podcast Slash Dylan Fagin producer. Um, we will get letters. Thanksgiving is in November. What did I say September? No, I said you when I met Excuse me, our birthdays are right around Thanksgiving. I understand comment. What I meant was that you came to New York in September. I've always come home in November for Thanksgiving, so two months after you arrived in New York was probably and I came and met you. Okay again, I'm quite to disabuse you of only one thing. I was only, as you remember, I only knew Christopher Guest. I had never spent more than three days consecutive consecutively with him before we married. That I mean we spent a couple three You think it was after eighty four. No, I'm saying that I came there in September to visit him. We met at the Thread Building. I remember meeting you. Um, I remember that meeting very well. And then I went back to California because I was in the middle of shooting perfect which started August and was quite It didn't actually end until we got married, which was in December, so I was shooting during that period of time. So that was my only I just the math didn't add up. And you know me, I am dogmatic about my math, but I I will. I want to echo everything you've just said. The first thing I want to echo and explore a little bit is letting go of friendships. I think you know when I quote pitched this show, when I had the idea based on the song good Friend by Emily King. When I heard that song and I thought about good friends and the joy of my friendships, you know, some of the pain of my friendships also popped into my head. And you know, friendships are living things. They they exist in a living format. It has to be. It's like you said, you've changed, you grow, you expand, you contract. It's elastic, it's moving, it is it is a living entity. It is not rigid and calcified. And I get concerned that relationships do get calcified. They get so locked into the way that you do things with that friend that that starts to feel like a calcification, like something hardened around you. And then you feel the guilt of what if I want to break this shell that is now surrounding this French but feels stagnant. There is stagnation in friendships, and I think you hit on that beautifully, which is that there are people. I don't think it's a conscious like I'm trying to say f you to that person, or I'm I no longer care about you. I do think you can grow apart from a friend and still look back and say that friendship had such tremendous value and import import not value, because it's not it's import. The import in my d n a of who I am some came from that relationship, and yet it no longer is part of my life. And I've had guilt about it and and great sadness about letting go of those friendships. But the truth is they're not in my mind and for whatever reason, and I feel terrible about it. Sometimes or we'll run into each other and there's that moment of like hi, hi, Hi, you know high voices, you know a lot of like that that energy that happens when you haven't seen someone, and there's always the promise of the connection again. Okay, yeah, And we'll say and I I've tried now to say I I don't know. I hope so, but if not, no, that that time was important to me, and I think that's do you have that experience? Yeah, yeah, that there's an association with a particular point in time. You may have a great funness for or affection for the person, but you've grown on different tracks and for whatever reason. And I don't only I know I used the word discard because that's what this person said to me. I don't mean that you're discarding them, but you've grown apart for whatever reason, and um, and so you don't sustain each other anymore. And that was a maturation for me to understand. Oh, okay that I that's that happens, and that's okay. My contrast to it is when that doesn't happen and you grow on parallel tracks. I mean, you and I are different in certain ways, but where we are in common and what we have in common and what's most important to us, you know, that is a great thing. When you share that with a friend, or you might have one very specific thing that you share with a friend and there in that year, they're not in a lot of spheres are all spheres, but there in one particular arena, and when you're doing that, or thinking about that, or focused on that or engaged in that, then you you may be back in tech with that person again. You know. I find that exactly. It was funny the minute you when you were talking, I was thinking about people and I was thinking, oh, yeah, that's exactly right, that's exactly how it is with so and so. UM. And by the way, I I, uh, this is a podcast called good Friend. It's the conversation about friendship some friends of mine, some strangers, some people I have you know met once. Um. I did an interview, uh with Lena Dunham and we've never physically met, but we are fond of each other, so obviously. But at the same time, I want to be really mindful and I have to put this, Dylan, we need to put this in our thinking caps because I want to make sure that friends of mine don't listen to this and then they're trying to figure out who they are and me talking about well, you know that person. I have to be really mindful. Um. It just popped in my mind that people who know me might listen in and then feel hurt that somehow maybe that I was talking about them and I'm not. Um, so whoever is listening and you know me and you think I just said something about you that is not the true, Well, we're The b thing about friendship is that you can meet a moment a person for a moment and you click and you connect and for that moment in time, you're crazy about that person. You love that person, and it's you know, lightning in a bottle, it's fireflies. It asn't continue, but it's no less genuine for whatever you connected on and however fleeting that it was, and that that has value too in terms of enriching your life and making your day. I think both Deborah and I are in show off business or have been for a long long time, and I think you have that on um. You know, you've heard people talk about movie cruise and TV cruise. These are technicians often or they are a group of actors and technicians and writers and producers and they come together to make something that's the goal. And you have people who operate the camera, you have people who hold the microphone, the boompole, you have wardrobe people. You have obviously hair and makeup people, and then you have the whole writing staff and the production staff and um, the executives, and it is such a collaborative furt and there are so many people that we work with in show off business, UM that we make those instantaneous bonds with that carry it through the project. And then because we're all adults and we know that we're all going to the next one, we separate that bond. But it remains perfect. It does not leak, it's not sort of bleeding out, and it's a little shell of itself. It's complete and when you reconnect, it's as if you haven't ever separated. So UM, when I was at the Cinematographers Guild Awards and I ran in to a camera operator named Dave, I won't say his last name just in case, UM privacy rise, but I you know, it's just weird. I've careful, I'm on a podcast. I'm talking to, you know, potentially people all over the world. Anyway, I had gone down the Amazon on a Guinness Book of World Records TV show UM that I hosted along with David Frost. David Frost went to Europe in a rolls Royce. You know, he went to Austria, and England, and you know, he drove around into Rolls Royce and did his narration of these you know, Guinness record breakers there. And I went down the Amazon in a boat. I mean I we went to South America and small little crew and Dave was one of those people. And I hadn't really seen him again. Accepted the Academy Awards a couple of times because he always works. But my memories and the connection to Dave, and I was young, I was single. I was surrounded by this small, little guerrilla group of filmmakers and we were literally go on the top of Angel Falls, um three thousand, two twelve feet. I had to narrate. I remember it forever, um. But that relationship. When I saw him at the Cinematographers Guild, it was as if I hadn't not seen him since I was nineteen years old. It was like that. And that's exactly what you're talking about. You have that thing and I haven't thought about Dave again. But the minute I saw him, where you are you just gave him a couple of minutes on your podcast. But it's that's the point, is that that's the great value of of real relationships in their complete open, wide, open, you know, leaning into each other, collaborating, helping each other get to that final goal. I think that happens in sales, in sales team and marketing. You know, you do have that in businesses where you have teamwork and you feel that way and then you move on. But the thing that has always you sort of grounded me with you is your expansion. Is the is your dedication to your family. Um not something I was raised with. You know of a somewhat disparate group of people, all connected through some biology and yet fairly disconnected, loving each other, but disconnected. You have a very close knit family. You have a very um strong bond with your family. You have a huge dedication to the past, into the history of your family. And when your mom died and your father hand you some letters that were in the closet somewhere hidden, hidden in a drawer, and he said, you're this sort of what you're sentimental. You're the sentimental one. Maybe you want the right and what what value are these? But oh, you're sentimental. You may want to look at these letters, right, And they were in German, in that tiny little writing on those onion skin papers, and it's the beginning of the movie that you made about your mother and her story and the friendships UM made along the way between you and your partner, Mark and Um, your editor, documentary partner. Oh sorry, see that's what happens. That's why she's a producer. Everyone. Yes, I understand. Sorry, I forgot that. The word partner has many meanings. Yes, your documentary partner, Mark Harris, Um, your editor, Kate Emmond. Um. There's that connection and the power of that, but also in really the power of investigation. This young woman, my friend Debbie, who was a you know, produced sitcoms, produced multi camp sitcoms with very funny people Drew Carey and Wanda Sykes, and you know, a wonderful writer Bruce Halford, all of which was really the cornerstone of your professional life. And yet the heart of this woman. Um took those letters, sent them to an aunt. She translated them, and what began was this investigation of what happened to your mom when she was put on a train along with ten when not in that moment, but you know, one of ten thousand Jewish children who were allowed to leave Germany before they stopped. That pro was did it stop at Krystal knock, no krystal knock is what precipitated it. And just so everybody understands because of something you said before. These are kids who escaped Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia and the Free State of danstig Um and went to Great Britain and they went to strangers for an indeterminate amount of time by and were sent by their parents who had no idea where they were sending them or what would befall them. And the thing that brought the kind to transfort to an end, and it was ten aous in Jewish and other children, was the outbreak of war. So war broke out and the doors closed and so there was That was why it was capped almost ten thousand children. So um, I just wanted to say with you coming out of that family that you had and the nature of that family, and there was divorced in your family and big careers and all of that, and my family was the small town of suburban you know, escaped refugees from Germany. You developed a relationship with my parents and particularly with my father. But the idea, I mean, the first I knew both of your parents. I had met both of your parents. I know your sister. The first deceased body I saw was your mother's, because your mother had died. And I called the house and Chris told me that your mom had just died, and I said, where are where is she? And he told me you were at the house. And I in my notes had the phone number and the address of your mother's house, and I just went there because having you as a friend means you're also taught how to be a friend, and it's very reciprocal. And so I showed up exactly in the way that you showed up. That surreal moment when someone has died and you know there's nothing to do. Really, it's a it's a it's a really strange moment because the struggle is over, the aid and comfort giving is over in that moment, and I remember sort of a couple of phone calls had been made and some arrangements were being made, and people were coming, and all of a sudden, there you were, and you didn't say a word. You bore witness to that moment. You didn't inject yourself on any level. You reached your hand out, you held my hand and we stood there. Now, you know, I it's something that happened today with a friend of mine who is struggling with a child who's having a hard time, and they keep saying they're trying to think of the right words or actions or deeds to do or say. And I suggested that they listened to something UM on npr UM that was done called this I Believe, and it's a woman named Debbie Hall who talks about the power of presence, of simple bearing witness in without any deed, word, action, gesture, just presence in another person's moment. And you did that, And obviously I will never forget that moment because it it was the purity of it. You didn't you know me, I would, I think if it was reversed in that moment, I would be trying to do something, and you didn't. You just knew to stand there in silence and honor what had just occurred. Ten minutes, fifteen minutes before, an hour before whatever. I don't even remember, but that was a moment and it goes back to that same honoring that I just was talking about, um and very much thank you for correcting me about about I want to obviously make sure that people understand exactly what was happening or to the best degree that they can um in Nazi Germany. UM And and of course they escape, but I'm when I said that they allowed. The German government did allow unaccompanied children to be put on trains to leave Germany for a period of time. And now, any listener here who has a child, if you can imagine taking that child to a train station and putting a sign around their neck with their name, not a name, not a name, a number, and that you didn't know really where they were going. They didn't know where they were going, and there was a very very very clear possibility that you might not ever see them again. That's what the Kinder Transport was. That's what the letters started to illuminate. For Deb was the story of her mother and the sacrifice of her of her grandparents, and the profound gesture of love to give her that chance. UM and Deb's involvement from the beginning, tracking down so many of the survivors, so many of the Kinder transport, um, getting it produced, getting the filmed, you know, finding the people. Obviously people were also quite old, and so the possibility, you know, it needed to get done. There was urgency here. They were very ill older people involved this, This was a very delicate undertaking and the research that Deb did, the depth of research I joke about, you know, Martin at foe gall in Paris, But imagine that every single one of these people, and the the labyrinth of names and people connected to each one of those survivors, each one of those kinder Deb found and connected to and made contact, loving contact. Deb even found the woman they ended up. UM. Just to explain to the listeners, just sort of where your mom ended up in the in the place that she ended up, I'm going to do that, and then I'm gonna get back to talking about friendship because I love talking about my move. But there is but there is something. But this is where I'm going to trust me here, lady, with the list trust me I have, I have, I'm I'm I'm aiming for it. So through some insane coincidence and serendipity, I could find UM, a bunch of girls who lived with my mother, one of whom shared a bed with my mother. UM a mattress that was stuffed with twigs and leaves and they had to mold it into shape. And where they lived in the ultimately in the attic servants quarters of the baronet and a lady in the country side went for two and a half years when these kind people whose name I won't mention right now, of course, seem took them in, although she deserve all this recognition. Who took them and sheltered them, you know, put a roof over their head, and they were in the attic servants quarters. You came up with the title of that project already, the girls in the attic. But yeah, I, through great serendipity, I found because the point of all this was that my mother never would tell her story. So it was with her passing and the discovery of these letters that led me too. But you can draw your arrows to this. But I want to say two things about this. So you've already acknowledged that I had an oscar on the day of the Oscars, which is a very stressful day because by this time, the lead up, you know, there's so much hoopla, and I needed to have my head on straight, and um, I didn't want to get caught up in that, particularly because of the nature of the material. I asked my family, as close as I am to them. I didn't have a big house, and I asked everybody to stay in a hotel they were able to come out here. Warner Brothers got tickets for all of them to come to the Oscers, which was amazing. The only person who other than the people makeup in hair, but we won't talk about all of that, who came to my house on that day who felt safe and trustworthy for me to have around when I was anxious and scared and in unknown circumstances was this person who I am speaking to right now. And you came, Jamie, your fantastic, fantastic photographer, and you came with your camera. And because I'm so at ease with you and so comfortable with you, I should say that some of the best pictures that have ever been taken of me or by you, and you came and documented that day, which I love having. I love having document mented the day of my you know, Oscar nomination and subsequent win. And then as if that weren't enough, you put it together in this wonderful book which I also have here by my as one of my props. And you made those photos and gave me extra copies of them and put them in a beautiful album. And so you be you know again we're talking about who was there for special moments in your life, and you know it may have been your mom's passing, and you know, something as painful and sad and deep as that, and it may have been one of the greatest days of my life where you came and you documented and memorialized that for me. I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break, don't for the listener. I used to exclusively use a like a m sex which is a very quiet little film camera so it's not like a big intrusive camera. And i' I have learned from some of the best, Diana Walker being one of them, how to blend into the scenery and wait for the light. Really so I was able to again semi wordlessly show up at your house that day, um and not in in insert myself anywhere in your And there was a moment where you said I need time, and you went into your bedroom. Before you put your dress on, you were wearing that robe, which I won't just scribe, but I think you guys know if I called it that robe, what it looked like. And you sat on the sette that had green velvet stripes going down it. I remembered so well, and you looked at the albums of photographs that you had put together, these books, trans transcripts of interviews with with some of the people in the movie, to ground yourself remembering that, yes, you were getting ready to go to the Oscars and all, as you said, the hoopla, the the shiny part of our industry. And yet you were grounding yourself in why you were going. What was the real import if you won? What was the import wasn't a personal import. It was the amount of um illumination that you were going to get to give to that story, to your mother, to the survivors, to the Holocaust as a whole, the voice, the chorus of disapproval, the chorus of outrage, and the miraculous saving of these these people who are in the movie. And I'm just remembering. So you have this whole collection of photos that you took, and you had your camera on your TV screen for the moment past, and you took a photo of me going up on the state of the announcement. So I was still in my seat, and my father and my sister were seated behind me, and my sister was wiping a tear away from her eyes, and you snapped a photo that also went into this photo album, and something weird happened in the camera, and there was this void that looked like a light was shining on it, and we both decided to interpret that as my mother looking down on me. I should also say that you offered me one million dollars if I were to win, to get up on that stage and to say my mother would want me to tell you that I'm single. I believe if I had done that, you actually would have given me one million dollars. I would have given it to Children's Hospital Los Angeles, for sure. And I didn't have the color. I didn't have the guts to just get up there and say my friend Jamie Lee Fitness said that, and instead, not only did I not have the nerve to say that, I wanted to thank Bruce Helford, who was my business partner at the time, and I said, I want to thank my partner, and it's e. I just corrected you. Thank you. Everybody thought that I was correct is thanking my romantic partner. And then the next day you happened to be on Jay Leno and you told them that you had wanted me to say that, and so in effect you conveyed the message and I there were no takers. But so where I was going was the connections that your mom made. That the connections that your mom made when living with all these young women away from her parents is sort of the nature of the friendship that we've been talking about. That that moment in their lives, that moment of being away from their families before they started their adult lives, where they that you found the woman who shared the bed with her, where we can only assume what that really was. I know that you have some knowledge of what that felt like to be with someone, to to be able to share those intimacies, and I'm obviously not here to talk about those intimacies. It's the where I was heading was that your example through your mother has been such an example of friendship. And obviously your mom came to America and married and you know, stay in touch with well. But she also didn't talk to you the three children about it because it she defied the Holocaust and the Nazis. She defied them by coming here and having a family and raising these three beautiful kids. And it was her way of saying, I am not defined by you. I am not going to let you rule my life. And yet she didn't talk about it, and she didn't share that with you, and she didn't, as you say, keep in contact with people. It was then how they got through and how she got through. And the movie that you made is such a is such an honor to to the human spirit, to just being able to survive and continue on in your life. And I knew your mom and I know that reserve and that strength in her, UM, and it's in you, and Um, you know it's very it's very powerful, Deb. It's a very powerful UM. It's a very powerful UM. I also want to talk about Patrick for a minute, Um, because you know the show is called Good Friend and Um. Patrick Um was a young man in an orphanage in California, and my friend Deb volunteered her time as a reader UM at an orphanage to help kids read books and made a special connection with this young man, became his special friend, which was something that you had to earn, You had to be cleared. There were tons of hoops to jump through to established yourself as a person of substance and seriousness, and it allowed you to then take that relationship and expand it and be able to help and take him out and be able to expand it and it it for the listener, it and all the way through. That young man was adopted by a family along with his brother, if I'm not mistaken, and Um lived with them happily, you know, found a family, was part of a family. And but when Patrick enlisted in the army, the marine. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, I know. Semplify, simplify, semplify everybody, Bob Brandt, my stepfather, semplify. He was a marine. Trust me. That's why I'm as rule following. My stepfather was a marine. Sorry forgive me. Patrick, who's listening, going like jam really the army? Come on anyway? Um, when he joined the Marine Corps, my friend deb was the one who drove him to his induction. Um, my friend Deb Um stayed, you know, has stayed with his whole life. And and when he shipped off to Iraq, I saw him off. He was frightened. It was really frightened. It was one of the only times in my life I saw him cry. And who sent him letters and packages in Iraq? Jamie, and who marked his birthday? Who has a completely independent friendship with him. But you, I mean, he talks to him. You resc more to his post than I do. I I love Patrick, I know you did. And I respected what he was doing, and I kept his picture as my screen saver until he came home. Yep, um, so that I would look at him every day and thank him for his service. But I'm but I'm I'm talking about friendship. This is a show called good Friend. But look at that triangle of friendship ad I would say it's a quadrangle because as recently as yesterday. Yes I know, I know, I know this. Everybody listening if I if you remember at the beginning of the podcast, I mentioned that she was a little bossy and that she came with a list and um props and her oscar and the notebook of pictures. But I'm going to interrupt her now and I'm going to make her just listen to me. What makes a good friend, at the core of it is trust. And you earned his trust, and you earned his trust all the way through in all of the areas that you have suited up and shown up for him and he for you. And even though that is a relationship in in many ways he is your child many of us referred to him as your son, even though that is not the way the world calls him. But you are his friend. And I wouldn't have been able to finish a podcast about friendship except to say to people, you need to look at that example. Here was a woman, a single woman in Los Angeles, who befriended a young African American kid in an orphanage years ago, seven years, seven years ago, and it has become as significant a relationship and friendship that it will prove to be probably the most significant French ship you will ever have in your life. Deb and it is the it is not the only reason I have also been the recipient of your incredible friendship, but it's a really important thing to remember that friendship comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. And your example, both with your mother and the movies, and we haven't even gotten into the foster care, which we won't have time for. And your personal relationship with Patrick and your friendship with him and my friendship with him through you is one of the most satisfying, most life affirming relationships I have, and it is why I was so happy that you agreed to come here and share your lists and you're funny way of absolutely suiting up and showing up in your complete way. But it's why this podcast is good because of people like you. And I am honored to call you my friend and to have shared so many things with you, and I only look for the more that we can. And as we have come to the end of our podcast, you need to know that you are a good friend, Deborah Ann Oppenheimer, and I love you with all of my heart. Well, I adore you, Jamie, And when you asked me to do this, I thought this is something I would really enjoy discussing with her, because you've made me a better friend to you and to other people in my life. You've you know, modeling, you know, setting an example. How great is that to have in your life? And so I thank you for inviting me and I've I've enjoyed so much. Say it's MS kind session with you. That's how it goes. Everybody who's listening. Stay safe out there, you know, be good to each other, and hopefully you'll listen up another time another place. Be well to say God bless you all. Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of I Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced, and performed by Emily King. Unlogative from a good Friend, I don't already Unlogative from a good Friend. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever listen to your favorite shows.

If there's something already I know, I'll get it from a good friend. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you by my Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about what it really means to be a good friend. And I have conversations with some of my best friends, some people I've never met, and sort of everything in between. So I hope by the end of it that you have a really good sense of what friendship means to me and the people that I consider friends. And I hope you can take those same ideas into your own friendship groups, and I hope you enjoy it. I don't already a love and a good friends. This thing is going in a ready babe. We are like, no, No, that's how That's how we roll here at the Good Friend Podcast. Is I that's my gotchaman for a minute? Early of course? Oh wow? Was that a little friend snartness? Not at one whit? So let's just ask that question about timeliness because um my our guest our the community of the Ears who listened to our Good Friend podcast, um our guest today is deborrah Ann Oppenheimer, UM, a very close friend of mine for a very long time. But I guess the question is just first off, like does that bother you that I'm super early? And be honest, this is like the moment, like completely like tell the truth. Know it doesn't bother me at all that you're super early. It's just something you have to know about you that if you say you're doing a dinner party at seven, you're going to be there at six thirty. If we're doing this podcast at one, it's not going to start at one. It's going to start before one, and we have to be ready before. But it's exactly one. Now. I was going to say, according to that, but I knew in planning with you that I should try earlier. I wasn't quite as early as I would have liked to have been. But you just know that about you. Okay, But but isn't that friendship? Isn't that basically the whole thing is like you know that about that person. So, and what I would like to say about that is that what I love about our friendship is that I know you and you know me, and to know you means, among many many many other things which I can disclose or not. One has to know you're going, you're early, you are punctual, and you're more than punctual. You're early, And I don't have this. Why would anybody have a problem with that? Well, I think some people do have a problem with it, honestly. And I'm going to say in my defense again since it is my podcast and I controlled the universe. UM, I will say that I don't believe if you call something for seven and I'm there at six thirty, six thirty, I understand, is a little early quarter to seven. Put it this way, I will be in my car in front of your house at six thirty, but I might not ring the doorbell until sixty five, I think. I think fifteen minutes till showtime. Most people have put their clothes on and already doing the final lighting of the candles, which I usually offer to help to do. Um. The minute you said to know you is to love you is the way friendship works. It makes that song. Isn't there a song to no no no you? Is still yes to love love love, And I do if but if you come early, and if you get my seam right or double check how my hair fulls or where if if my something is on straight, then you would do that. So then great, you're a helper when you show up early. Yes, I don't. By the way, I'm not the type of person for those of you who are listening who are going to invite me now over, I'm going to get random invitations. Um. I do show up with an intention to help my hostess or host make make it a successful gathering. I will grab food plates, I will pour almonds out of the can into the beautiful bowl you brought back from Africa and make it look like it's something beautiful. I will certainly lean into that. And if somehow miraculously nothing needs to be done, you don't need attention. You come early, you're there, and you're not while I or whoever is running around bustling trying to get ready. You're not needy and demanding. So that's a really good let's start there that. See, I knew we would find our our doorway into friendship because I think that's a really important conversation. And I'm sure our listeners um will be nodding at this moment because they're our friends who take up a lot of space and are super super needy um for whatever reason, for whatever their psychological makeup is, and that's not been our relationship. I feel like it's a really mutual showing up, suiting up, showing up, helping, leaning into the help, versus the pay attention to me, pay attention to me. But I'm sure you have friends that are the other way and bring charm and wonderfulness to that part of the friendship. I think that's another thing about knowing you, which is that you completely thoroughly come through if I need you. But I don't think your threshold or mine for neediness. That's not a quality we look for in a friend. And and I think that there's a whole other complexity to that, because I think we both do work on ourselves and look inward, and that being needy is something we have feelings about, and so we wouldn't eat. We would have a conscience at a at a time where we are needy and might need something from each other. We have a perspective about that and a threshold for that that we both tolerate and come through for and then also place limits on. That sounds like the most whole relationship I've ever heard described about friendship. Seriously, I want to talk about an aspect of our friendship that that is what I love about a friendship. If I can take over here for a moment, how well, let me just let people know what you do, because then you'll understand why you just took over my podcast. Um So UM. I met Deborah and Oppenheimer through my husband Christopher, two friends of his became very very close friends of mine. UM. Through that relationship through Chris as the portal one of whom is debrah Ann Oppenheimer. And deb produces. So there you understand now why she took over my podcast. She produces. She's the boss um of a lot of people. She does a lot of television, um and has done a lot of television in the past. Um. And also and we will way get into that in a minute. Also on her own, under her own um Internal Drive made took the story of her mother who was one of the Kinder Transport children, one of the ten thousand Jewish children allowed to leave Germany unaccompanied. Her mother who ended up coming to America. Her story was after she died, Deborah picked up and took all the way through making an incredibly powerful documentary called Into the arms of strangers, stories of the Kindred Transport, which one an oscar that year at the Academy Awards. Now I've told deb this many many times. I know a lot of people in show off business. I am friends with a lot of people in show off business, and except for a recent friendship, I have never known anyone who won an oscar. And here my bestie, who I've known since I met Chris, So we're a thirty six year friendship. Through all her own initiative and passion and dedication, um took that story all the way to the highest point that our industry offers, UM and expanded that history through books and education and more and more. So this is a woman who is formidable, which is why she took over my Instagram, I mean my podcast. I do everything by the way I do Instagram, podcasting, I do, I do it all. Um. So, anyway, now that I've introduced you properly so that people now understand why you hijacked my personal podcast called Good Friend, why you can now say whatever you want. Um. So, first of all, I came with props, not that anybody can see it. Wow, there it is okay. So Deborah and Oppenheimer just brought out the oscar, which I remind her often when she's feeling down about um oh, and by the way, we will discuss also the fantastic documentary she made called Foster about the foster care system. And but I do remind her when when the chips are down or when she's feeling a little blue. I do say, you're the only person I know with an oscar. Please just go hold the oscar for like a second, just kind of get that energy off of it and remind yourself that, um you can do anything. Um So, anyway, what were you trying to say about our friendship? I was going to say that probably do you have notes? Okay, the other thing you need to know about Debra Ann Oppenheimer. And I'm saying this, I'm now that people are gonna want to find you. I'm sure there's ways to track her down. I'm not going to tell you how. Um, As I've told all of my guests, I am not selling things here. So yours is actually the only time I've used anyone's credit of what they've done or how they've you know, changed their life. But it's such an integral part of our friendship. For me to be your cheerleader. As you've done that that I felt it was an appropriate place to drop my selling of you know, movies and and and documentaries. But the thing you have to know listeners. Debrah and Oppenheimer takes copious notes. And I say copious, I mean copious, minuscule tiny writing on these myriad um surfaces, pads, notebooks. Um. And if let's just say you the healthy listener is we're past COVID, You've gotten your vaccines, and you want to go to Paris and you need a bra in Paris, Deborah and Oppenheimer will say to you, oh you're going to Paris, Oh you need a brawl? Okay, I want you to call Martin. Here's her number. She works at the Faux Gall boutique on the Russan Honoree and she this is her personal mobile. I also have her mother's email. This is who Debora is. Deborra is a researcher. Debra is someone who is thorough and planned, I believe. Twice she asked me what we were going to discuss here today and I kept saying friendship. She was like, yeah, about like what part of friendship? I'm like friendship. So anyway, you do have notes, please use your notes right now and tell me what you your notes read, because I love you for it. By the way, it's why there's a golden statue at your feet right now, because of that thorough dogmatic mind meld of data and information and the storage of that, and the the train that that leads you to. Sorry, so I don't let you speaking. I don't know this little detail by heart, but I have a note about it. Of course you do in my telephone, which was that you came to New York when Chris was on Saturday Night Live in September, and you were at the Thread Building where you rant, and I don't remember anything about my life. You were at the Thread Building. I come home every year. I'm from New York. I come home every year for Thanksgiving. It's a holiday I love and never missed. And so probably if you came to join him in September eighty four, I'm guessing that Thanksgiving of eighty four, so it's actually thirty seven years. Um. I came walked into that apartment and it was instantaneous. There was some connection between us, which does not always happen for me and I'm sure it doesn't always happen for you. That was absolutely instantaneous and what I love about a friendship, which isn't always the case, but it is in our case that we've known each other for thirty seven years, and so we have evolved, we've changed, we've grown, we've gone through ups, we've gone through downs, we've gone through transitions. And if if by some fantastic stroke of fortune, your friendship withstands those thirty seven years and you still have similar values and similar um interests, If if that friendship can stand up through all of that, it has such depth and it is such a gift, it's so incredibly rewarding. I remember when somebody said to me, well, you may discard some friendships you made part ways with people, and I thought, oh no, no, no, no, no, not me, and come to discover, oh yeah, me, that does happen. But in our case, we've been together for all this time, and I treasure you, I value you, and I love that are still friends, and certainly no end in sight to any of that, no exploration day and locative. I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break, So stick around. I don't know any so I'm going to correct you about one thing, which I promise. If I don't correct you, we will get letters. Heart Radio you know Slash good Friend Okay podcast Slash Dylan Fagin producer. Um, we will get letters. Thanksgiving is in November. What did I say September? No, I said you when I met Excuse me, our birthdays are right around Thanksgiving. I understand comment. What I meant was that you came to New York in September. I've always come home in November for Thanksgiving, so two months after you arrived in New York was probably and I came and met you. Okay again, I'm quite to disabuse you of only one thing. I was only, as you remember, I only knew Christopher Guest. I had never spent more than three days consecutive consecutively with him before we married. That I mean we spent a couple three You think it was after eighty four. No, I'm saying that I came there in September to visit him. We met at the Thread Building. I remember meeting you. Um, I remember that meeting very well. And then I went back to California because I was in the middle of shooting perfect which started August and was quite It didn't actually end until we got married, which was in December, so I was shooting during that period of time. So that was my only I just the math didn't add up. And you know me, I am dogmatic about my math, but I I will. I want to echo everything you've just said. The first thing I want to echo and explore a little bit is letting go of friendships. I think you know when I quote pitched this show, when I had the idea based on the song good Friend by Emily King. When I heard that song and I thought about good friends and the joy of my friendships, you know, some of the pain of my friendships also popped into my head. And you know, friendships are living things. They they exist in a living format. It has to be. It's like you said, you've changed, you grow, you expand, you contract. It's elastic, it's moving, it is it is a living entity. It is not rigid and calcified. And I get concerned that relationships do get calcified. They get so locked into the way that you do things with that friend that that starts to feel like a calcification, like something hardened around you. And then you feel the guilt of what if I want to break this shell that is now surrounding this French but feels stagnant. There is stagnation in friendships, and I think you hit on that beautifully, which is that there are people. I don't think it's a conscious like I'm trying to say f you to that person, or I'm I no longer care about you. I do think you can grow apart from a friend and still look back and say that friendship had such tremendous value and import import not value, because it's not it's import. The import in my d n a of who I am some came from that relationship, and yet it no longer is part of my life. And I've had guilt about it and and great sadness about letting go of those friendships. But the truth is they're not in my mind and for whatever reason, and I feel terrible about it. Sometimes or we'll run into each other and there's that moment of like hi, hi, Hi, you know high voices, you know a lot of like that that energy that happens when you haven't seen someone, and there's always the promise of the connection again. Okay, yeah, And we'll say and I I've tried now to say I I don't know. I hope so, but if not, no, that that time was important to me, and I think that's do you have that experience? Yeah, yeah, that there's an association with a particular point in time. You may have a great funness for or affection for the person, but you've grown on different tracks and for whatever reason. And I don't only I know I used the word discard because that's what this person said to me. I don't mean that you're discarding them, but you've grown apart for whatever reason, and um, and so you don't sustain each other anymore. And that was a maturation for me to understand. Oh, okay that I that's that happens, and that's okay. My contrast to it is when that doesn't happen and you grow on parallel tracks. I mean, you and I are different in certain ways, but where we are in common and what we have in common and what's most important to us, you know, that is a great thing. When you share that with a friend, or you might have one very specific thing that you share with a friend and there in that year, they're not in a lot of spheres are all spheres, but there in one particular arena, and when you're doing that, or thinking about that, or focused on that or engaged in that, then you you may be back in tech with that person again. You know. I find that exactly. It was funny the minute you when you were talking, I was thinking about people and I was thinking, oh, yeah, that's exactly right, that's exactly how it is with so and so. UM. And by the way, I I, uh, this is a podcast called good Friend. It's the conversation about friendship some friends of mine, some strangers, some people I have you know met once. Um. I did an interview, uh with Lena Dunham and we've never physically met, but we are fond of each other, so obviously. But at the same time, I want to be really mindful and I have to put this, Dylan, we need to put this in our thinking caps because I want to make sure that friends of mine don't listen to this and then they're trying to figure out who they are and me talking about well, you know that person. I have to be really mindful. Um. It just popped in my mind that people who know me might listen in and then feel hurt that somehow maybe that I was talking about them and I'm not. Um, so whoever is listening and you know me and you think I just said something about you that is not the true, Well, we're The b thing about friendship is that you can meet a moment a person for a moment and you click and you connect and for that moment in time, you're crazy about that person. You love that person, and it's you know, lightning in a bottle, it's fireflies. It asn't continue, but it's no less genuine for whatever you connected on and however fleeting that it was, and that that has value too in terms of enriching your life and making your day. I think both Deborah and I are in show off business or have been for a long long time, and I think you have that on um. You know, you've heard people talk about movie cruise and TV cruise. These are technicians often or they are a group of actors and technicians and writers and producers and they come together to make something that's the goal. And you have people who operate the camera, you have people who hold the microphone, the boompole, you have wardrobe people. You have obviously hair and makeup people, and then you have the whole writing staff and the production staff and um, the executives, and it is such a collaborative furt and there are so many people that we work with in show off business, UM that we make those instantaneous bonds with that carry it through the project. And then because we're all adults and we know that we're all going to the next one, we separate that bond. But it remains perfect. It does not leak, it's not sort of bleeding out, and it's a little shell of itself. It's complete and when you reconnect, it's as if you haven't ever separated. So UM, when I was at the Cinematographers Guild Awards and I ran in to a camera operator named Dave, I won't say his last name just in case, UM privacy rise, but I you know, it's just weird. I've careful, I'm on a podcast. I'm talking to, you know, potentially people all over the world. Anyway, I had gone down the Amazon on a Guinness Book of World Records TV show UM that I hosted along with David Frost. David Frost went to Europe in a rolls Royce. You know, he went to Austria, and England, and you know, he drove around into Rolls Royce and did his narration of these you know, Guinness record breakers there. And I went down the Amazon in a boat. I mean I we went to South America and small little crew and Dave was one of those people. And I hadn't really seen him again. Accepted the Academy Awards a couple of times because he always works. But my memories and the connection to Dave, and I was young, I was single. I was surrounded by this small, little guerrilla group of filmmakers and we were literally go on the top of Angel Falls, um three thousand, two twelve feet. I had to narrate. I remember it forever, um. But that relationship. When I saw him at the Cinematographers Guild, it was as if I hadn't not seen him since I was nineteen years old. It was like that. And that's exactly what you're talking about. You have that thing and I haven't thought about Dave again. But the minute I saw him, where you are you just gave him a couple of minutes on your podcast. But it's that's the point, is that that's the great value of of real relationships in their complete open, wide, open, you know, leaning into each other, collaborating, helping each other get to that final goal. I think that happens in sales, in sales team and marketing. You know, you do have that in businesses where you have teamwork and you feel that way and then you move on. But the thing that has always you sort of grounded me with you is your expansion. Is the is your dedication to your family. Um not something I was raised with. You know of a somewhat disparate group of people, all connected through some biology and yet fairly disconnected, loving each other, but disconnected. You have a very close knit family. You have a very um strong bond with your family. You have a huge dedication to the past, into the history of your family. And when your mom died and your father hand you some letters that were in the closet somewhere hidden, hidden in a drawer, and he said, you're this sort of what you're sentimental. You're the sentimental one. Maybe you want the right and what what value are these? But oh, you're sentimental. You may want to look at these letters, right, And they were in German, in that tiny little writing on those onion skin papers, and it's the beginning of the movie that you made about your mother and her story and the friendships UM made along the way between you and your partner, Mark and Um, your editor, documentary partner. Oh sorry, see that's what happens. That's why she's a producer. Everyone. Yes, I understand. Sorry, I forgot that. The word partner has many meanings. Yes, your documentary partner, Mark Harris, Um, your editor, Kate Emmond. Um. There's that connection and the power of that, but also in really the power of investigation. This young woman, my friend Debbie, who was a you know, produced sitcoms, produced multi camp sitcoms with very funny people Drew Carey and Wanda Sykes, and you know, a wonderful writer Bruce Halford, all of which was really the cornerstone of your professional life. And yet the heart of this woman. Um took those letters, sent them to an aunt. She translated them, and what began was this investigation of what happened to your mom when she was put on a train along with ten when not in that moment, but you know, one of ten thousand Jewish children who were allowed to leave Germany before they stopped. That pro was did it stop at Krystal knock, no krystal knock is what precipitated it. And just so everybody understands because of something you said before. These are kids who escaped Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia and the Free State of danstig Um and went to Great Britain and they went to strangers for an indeterminate amount of time by and were sent by their parents who had no idea where they were sending them or what would befall them. And the thing that brought the kind to transfort to an end, and it was ten aous in Jewish and other children, was the outbreak of war. So war broke out and the doors closed and so there was That was why it was capped almost ten thousand children. So um, I just wanted to say with you coming out of that family that you had and the nature of that family, and there was divorced in your family and big careers and all of that, and my family was the small town of suburban you know, escaped refugees from Germany. You developed a relationship with my parents and particularly with my father. But the idea, I mean, the first I knew both of your parents. I had met both of your parents. I know your sister. The first deceased body I saw was your mother's, because your mother had died. And I called the house and Chris told me that your mom had just died, and I said, where are where is she? And he told me you were at the house. And I in my notes had the phone number and the address of your mother's house, and I just went there because having you as a friend means you're also taught how to be a friend, and it's very reciprocal. And so I showed up exactly in the way that you showed up. That surreal moment when someone has died and you know there's nothing to do. Really, it's a it's a it's a really strange moment because the struggle is over, the aid and comfort giving is over in that moment, and I remember sort of a couple of phone calls had been made and some arrangements were being made, and people were coming, and all of a sudden, there you were, and you didn't say a word. You bore witness to that moment. You didn't inject yourself on any level. You reached your hand out, you held my hand and we stood there. Now, you know, I it's something that happened today with a friend of mine who is struggling with a child who's having a hard time, and they keep saying they're trying to think of the right words or actions or deeds to do or say. And I suggested that they listened to something UM on npr UM that was done called this I Believe, and it's a woman named Debbie Hall who talks about the power of presence, of simple bearing witness in without any deed, word, action, gesture, just presence in another person's moment. And you did that, And obviously I will never forget that moment because it it was the purity of it. You didn't you know me, I would, I think if it was reversed in that moment, I would be trying to do something, and you didn't. You just knew to stand there in silence and honor what had just occurred. Ten minutes, fifteen minutes before, an hour before whatever. I don't even remember, but that was a moment and it goes back to that same honoring that I just was talking about, um and very much thank you for correcting me about about I want to obviously make sure that people understand exactly what was happening or to the best degree that they can um in Nazi Germany. UM And and of course they escape, but I'm when I said that they allowed. The German government did allow unaccompanied children to be put on trains to leave Germany for a period of time. And now, any listener here who has a child, if you can imagine taking that child to a train station and putting a sign around their neck with their name, not a name, not a name, a number, and that you didn't know really where they were going. They didn't know where they were going, and there was a very very very clear possibility that you might not ever see them again. That's what the Kinder Transport was. That's what the letters started to illuminate. For Deb was the story of her mother and the sacrifice of her of her grandparents, and the profound gesture of love to give her that chance. UM and Deb's involvement from the beginning, tracking down so many of the survivors, so many of the Kinder transport, um, getting it produced, getting the filmed, you know, finding the people. Obviously people were also quite old, and so the possibility, you know, it needed to get done. There was urgency here. They were very ill older people involved this, This was a very delicate undertaking and the research that Deb did, the depth of research I joke about, you know, Martin at foe gall in Paris, But imagine that every single one of these people, and the the labyrinth of names and people connected to each one of those survivors, each one of those kinder Deb found and connected to and made contact, loving contact. Deb even found the woman they ended up. UM. Just to explain to the listeners, just sort of where your mom ended up in the in the place that she ended up, I'm going to do that, and then I'm gonna get back to talking about friendship because I love talking about my move. But there is but there is something. But this is where I'm going to trust me here, lady, with the list trust me I have, I have, I'm I'm I'm aiming for it. So through some insane coincidence and serendipity, I could find UM, a bunch of girls who lived with my mother, one of whom shared a bed with my mother. UM a mattress that was stuffed with twigs and leaves and they had to mold it into shape. And where they lived in the ultimately in the attic servants quarters of the baronet and a lady in the country side went for two and a half years when these kind people whose name I won't mention right now, of course, seem took them in, although she deserve all this recognition. Who took them and sheltered them, you know, put a roof over their head, and they were in the attic servants quarters. You came up with the title of that project already, the girls in the attic. But yeah, I, through great serendipity, I found because the point of all this was that my mother never would tell her story. So it was with her passing and the discovery of these letters that led me too. But you can draw your arrows to this. But I want to say two things about this. So you've already acknowledged that I had an oscar on the day of the Oscars, which is a very stressful day because by this time, the lead up, you know, there's so much hoopla, and I needed to have my head on straight, and um, I didn't want to get caught up in that, particularly because of the nature of the material. I asked my family, as close as I am to them. I didn't have a big house, and I asked everybody to stay in a hotel they were able to come out here. Warner Brothers got tickets for all of them to come to the Oscers, which was amazing. The only person who other than the people makeup in hair, but we won't talk about all of that, who came to my house on that day who felt safe and trustworthy for me to have around when I was anxious and scared and in unknown circumstances was this person who I am speaking to right now. And you came, Jamie, your fantastic, fantastic photographer, and you came with your camera. And because I'm so at ease with you and so comfortable with you, I should say that some of the best pictures that have ever been taken of me or by you, and you came and documented that day, which I love having. I love having document mented the day of my you know, Oscar nomination and subsequent win. And then as if that weren't enough, you put it together in this wonderful book which I also have here by my as one of my props. And you made those photos and gave me extra copies of them and put them in a beautiful album. And so you be you know again we're talking about who was there for special moments in your life, and you know it may have been your mom's passing, and you know, something as painful and sad and deep as that, and it may have been one of the greatest days of my life where you came and you documented and memorialized that for me. I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend after this quick break, don't for the listener. I used to exclusively use a like a m sex which is a very quiet little film camera so it's not like a big intrusive camera. And i' I have learned from some of the best, Diana Walker being one of them, how to blend into the scenery and wait for the light. Really so I was able to again semi wordlessly show up at your house that day, um and not in in insert myself anywhere in your And there was a moment where you said I need time, and you went into your bedroom. Before you put your dress on, you were wearing that robe, which I won't just scribe, but I think you guys know if I called it that robe, what it looked like. And you sat on the sette that had green velvet stripes going down it. I remembered so well, and you looked at the albums of photographs that you had put together, these books, trans transcripts of interviews with with some of the people in the movie, to ground yourself remembering that, yes, you were getting ready to go to the Oscars and all, as you said, the hoopla, the the shiny part of our industry. And yet you were grounding yourself in why you were going. What was the real import if you won? What was the import wasn't a personal import. It was the amount of um illumination that you were going to get to give to that story, to your mother, to the survivors, to the Holocaust as a whole, the voice, the chorus of disapproval, the chorus of outrage, and the miraculous saving of these these people who are in the movie. And I'm just remembering. So you have this whole collection of photos that you took, and you had your camera on your TV screen for the moment past, and you took a photo of me going up on the state of the announcement. So I was still in my seat, and my father and my sister were seated behind me, and my sister was wiping a tear away from her eyes, and you snapped a photo that also went into this photo album, and something weird happened in the camera, and there was this void that looked like a light was shining on it, and we both decided to interpret that as my mother looking down on me. I should also say that you offered me one million dollars if I were to win, to get up on that stage and to say my mother would want me to tell you that I'm single. I believe if I had done that, you actually would have given me one million dollars. I would have given it to Children's Hospital Los Angeles, for sure. And I didn't have the color. I didn't have the guts to just get up there and say my friend Jamie Lee Fitness said that, and instead, not only did I not have the nerve to say that, I wanted to thank Bruce Helford, who was my business partner at the time, and I said, I want to thank my partner, and it's e. I just corrected you. Thank you. Everybody thought that I was correct is thanking my romantic partner. And then the next day you happened to be on Jay Leno and you told them that you had wanted me to say that, and so in effect you conveyed the message and I there were no takers. But so where I was going was the connections that your mom made. That the connections that your mom made when living with all these young women away from her parents is sort of the nature of the friendship that we've been talking about. That that moment in their lives, that moment of being away from their families before they started their adult lives, where they that you found the woman who shared the bed with her, where we can only assume what that really was. I know that you have some knowledge of what that felt like to be with someone, to to be able to share those intimacies, and I'm obviously not here to talk about those intimacies. It's the where I was heading was that your example through your mother has been such an example of friendship. And obviously your mom came to America and married and you know, stay in touch with well. But she also didn't talk to you the three children about it because it she defied the Holocaust and the Nazis. She defied them by coming here and having a family and raising these three beautiful kids. And it was her way of saying, I am not defined by you. I am not going to let you rule my life. And yet she didn't talk about it, and she didn't share that with you, and she didn't, as you say, keep in contact with people. It was then how they got through and how she got through. And the movie that you made is such a is such an honor to to the human spirit, to just being able to survive and continue on in your life. And I knew your mom and I know that reserve and that strength in her, UM, and it's in you, and Um, you know it's very it's very powerful, Deb. It's a very powerful UM. It's a very powerful UM. I also want to talk about Patrick for a minute, Um, because you know the show is called Good Friend and Um. Patrick Um was a young man in an orphanage in California, and my friend Deb volunteered her time as a reader UM at an orphanage to help kids read books and made a special connection with this young man, became his special friend, which was something that you had to earn, You had to be cleared. There were tons of hoops to jump through to established yourself as a person of substance and seriousness, and it allowed you to then take that relationship and expand it and be able to help and take him out and be able to expand it and it it for the listener, it and all the way through. That young man was adopted by a family along with his brother, if I'm not mistaken, and Um lived with them happily, you know, found a family, was part of a family. And but when Patrick enlisted in the army, the marine. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, I know. Semplify, simplify, semplify everybody, Bob Brandt, my stepfather, semplify. He was a marine. Trust me. That's why I'm as rule following. My stepfather was a marine. Sorry forgive me. Patrick, who's listening, going like jam really the army? Come on anyway? Um, when he joined the Marine Corps, my friend deb was the one who drove him to his induction. Um, my friend Deb Um stayed, you know, has stayed with his whole life. And and when he shipped off to Iraq, I saw him off. He was frightened. It was really frightened. It was one of the only times in my life I saw him cry. And who sent him letters and packages in Iraq? Jamie, and who marked his birthday? Who has a completely independent friendship with him. But you, I mean, he talks to him. You resc more to his post than I do. I I love Patrick, I know you did. And I respected what he was doing, and I kept his picture as my screen saver until he came home. Yep, um, so that I would look at him every day and thank him for his service. But I'm but I'm I'm talking about friendship. This is a show called good Friend. But look at that triangle of friendship ad I would say it's a quadrangle because as recently as yesterday. Yes I know, I know, I know this. Everybody listening if I if you remember at the beginning of the podcast, I mentioned that she was a little bossy and that she came with a list and um props and her oscar and the notebook of pictures. But I'm going to interrupt her now and I'm going to make her just listen to me. What makes a good friend, at the core of it is trust. And you earned his trust, and you earned his trust all the way through in all of the areas that you have suited up and shown up for him and he for you. And even though that is a relationship in in many ways he is your child many of us referred to him as your son, even though that is not the way the world calls him. But you are his friend. And I wouldn't have been able to finish a podcast about friendship except to say to people, you need to look at that example. Here was a woman, a single woman in Los Angeles, who befriended a young African American kid in an orphanage years ago, seven years, seven years ago, and it has become as significant a relationship and friendship that it will prove to be probably the most significant French ship you will ever have in your life. Deb and it is the it is not the only reason I have also been the recipient of your incredible friendship, but it's a really important thing to remember that friendship comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. And your example, both with your mother and the movies, and we haven't even gotten into the foster care, which we won't have time for. And your personal relationship with Patrick and your friendship with him and my friendship with him through you is one of the most satisfying, most life affirming relationships I have, and it is why I was so happy that you agreed to come here and share your lists and you're funny way of absolutely suiting up and showing up in your complete way. But it's why this podcast is good because of people like you. And I am honored to call you my friend and to have shared so many things with you, and I only look for the more that we can. And as we have come to the end of our podcast, you need to know that you are a good friend, Deborah Ann Oppenheimer, and I love you with all of my heart. Well, I adore you, Jamie, And when you asked me to do this, I thought this is something I would really enjoy discussing with her, because you've made me a better friend to you and to other people in my life. You've you know, modeling, you know, setting an example. How great is that to have in your life? And so I thank you for inviting me and I've I've enjoyed so much. Say it's MS kind session with you. That's how it goes. Everybody who's listening. Stay safe out there, you know, be good to each other, and hopefully you'll listen up another time another place. Be well to say God bless you all. Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of I Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced, and performed by Emily King. Unlogative from a good Friend, I don't already Unlogative from a good Friend. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever listen to your favorite shows.