Carola, She's a queen. She's not afraid of just no one, Carol, Hey, friends. On this episode of Get Real podcast, I have Mary Reem's Reinhardt. She is beautiful inside and out. She walks into a room and she takes your breath away because she's just stunningly beautiful. And then you talk to her and you can't even believe she's a real person because she's the sweetest human on earth. She is married to Bear, the lead singer of Need to Breathe, and now he has his own solo project called I Am Wilder Woods. She is such an honest soul. She talks about her love story with Bear, how they met in college, how they dated, they broke up, they got married, how they have just navigated marriage good and hard seasons, and she's just real about life. And it's really refreshing to talk to her. And this is her first podcast. So I felt always so special when someone trust me to come on and share their story with me. So get excited. Here is Mary Reims. I am here with Mary Reems Reinhart right saying, right, yeah, okay, what's up? You said? You have a funny question. I do have you ever? First of all, I just filled some But have you ever interviewed my dream of podcast? And we're like so worried to use it. Never I could be the first. No, you will not. You will not be the first. But this is your friend. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if you had to tell me that. I would rather tell I've already stalked your Instagram and already know you're not boring and already okay, so we're like new friends. We are, but thanks to Laney Crowder connection to everybody so in you know, word call. I don't know if we're allowed to say that, but well we can say we go to therapy. There, we indidentually go to therapy there. I call it life coaching, life coach, speaking of life coaching, the like Porter's Call is this amazing outreach that they offered to wives of musicians and musicians and it's like free of charge because there whoever who who started at Anderson al Anderson started it. But now we go to Beth and it's very confidential, but since we have decided to share, we can share. But it's like they help artists and artists wise get their heads on straight because it is such a hard industry to navigate being an artist and the wife of an artist. And I think that is such an amazing outreach that they offer this program. And so we've met through that, right, and I think so even before. So we have lived in Nashville a year and a half now and Charleston, so you've only been here a year and a half. I mean, I feel like we've been here a time over the past. We've been married sixteen years. So you're married to Bear, who is the lead singer of Need to Breathe and now I am wild I am our Woods or wild Woods yea instagrams projects, which is insane. That music is insane. Yeah, I like it, but we'll talking about all that. So but yeah, we've lived here a year and a half. But even before we moved here, always heard about Porter's Call, which is just sort of a kind of mentorship, counseling, all the things for artist family. So always was like, if we have been Nashville, want to go there. So that's great. What have you learned about yourself by going to therapy and counseling or what did you call it life coaching? I call it life coaching. I feel like counseling can kind of sounds scary for people, but I'm like, we go to personal trainers for like fitness and all kinds of stuff. You know, why would you not work on your brain coaching? So m honestly, we probably starting maybe seven or eight years ago, we started seeing somebody periodically. We went through like a tough time anyways, and were there more frequently, but have kind of kept up with it. I've always loved Like, do you embarrassed started going together? Yeah? Probably? Yeah that hard just decided to go to therapy together, I don't think so. I don't neither of us really were had any qualms about it or hang ups about it. I think both of us are kind of the type who like outside advice and honestly coaching, So it wasn't hard for us to go. Just that's how Michael and I got are decided to get married. We had broken up for we've gotten we've been together four years, broken up two years, and we're getting back together. And we were like, we're going to go to therapy and we're either gonna break up and be broken up forever or we're gonna work it out right. And we were able to work everything out in therapy. Yeah, and then we go like, um, even when when you're not dealing with something like acute or whatever, going periodically and honestly, I describe it to people who don't you know, we're a little bit nervous about it. Kind of the same thing with coaching, you know, you go to a personal train or whatever. Um. But it kind of for me, it helps me to reach the goals that I'm trying to get to, you know, kind of eliminating hang ups or anything like that. UM. So anyways, going periodically, So now we knew what Porter's call I love. I mean, Beth is great. I've actually she's the first female counselor I've ever seen, UM, and I kind of like it's just a different dynamics. So but in terms of learning, I mean, I think one of the biggest things I've learned through being in counseling life coaching is I was kind of a control freak, like an emotional control really uncomfortable with uncertainty and just needing And I think for me, it's easiest to be controlling with the people that are closest to me. So Bear would bear the front of that, of course. So it's been good to you know, kind of learned. I mean, life is not certain ever, you know, just kind of be peaceful despite circumstances and just kind of grow and trust in general. So anyways, that's probably the biggest thing. Did you know that you're emotional control freak or did you learn that through life pitching? I think, I mean, I think I'm a fairly insightful person about myself, but I definitely I did not know to this severity. Yeah, so yeah, probably it was probably new through doing counseling, for sure. I've learned so much about myself too. Yeahs. My biggest thing has always been like self worth issues. Like I've always struggled with self worth issues. And I'm sorry for everyone who's listen to my podcast. I've been a lot of therapy podcast lately, and I'm like, let me tell you all my issues. But it's always been like not feeling like I'm good enough, and then I think that has led me to like controlling in different ways. Um, Like with Michael, he's much more free spirited than me, and he is like someone who is a lot more lighthearted, and I think I could it's he's taught me so much how to be more lighthearted like that, but I feel like I have I have for my own set of reasons, have the same thing where I just want to control everything and have it all worked out, and like I need him to do everything I need him to do. Sure, yeah, do you'll do the angiogram or do you talk about that on your podcast? I don't want to be redundant And you're like, we can't talk about that anymore. But what are is your number? And what's the Okay? So I'm six, you're six? What is the six? So six is a loyalist? Okay? So I read the other day there's this inniogram app called any app that I really like, and it gives like a quick like phrase for each number, and the six is let me try to remember, it's the glass is neither half full or no. It doesn't matter if the glass is half full or half empty. It's going to break anyways, which is so sad the bottom is falling out. Yeah. Um, So for me, it's more about I think six is struggle with self doubt, like trusting your own instincts all. And I think that's part of the reason why I like coaching, because I want somebody else to tell me how to do it. Somebody can just give me the road map, I can do it. But if you leave me to like figure it out myself, I'm like, I don't know what to do. You know. Um, so Bear is an eight, so that's a challenge my dad. Yeah, yeah, eights can be like terrible people if they're unhealthy and awesome leaders aids are the only ones. My mom told me this because my dad's an eight that use anger as a tool. Yeah, yeah, really healthy eight. I wouldn't seven or eight years ago, not so much. But we were children, we were um. But sixes and eights can be a good dynamic. I mean I think I think we are. But um, EIDs like to tell people give their opinion and tell them what to do, and sixes or like bring it on. Yes, visionaries because they have a very clear plan of how And don't they hate injustice? Yes, yes, that's like one of their driving like they hate injustice and they're very much like passionate yes leaders, that kind of stuff. So it's just I would say it's a strong personality and sixes can be a little passive. I don't consider I'm not a passive person, but I think we work well together in relationships because I can kind of soften the you know, harshirt edges with bear. So and I think over time and again, we've been married like sixteen years, so over time you kind of sort of mesh not mention to one you're you do your independent people, but you learn so much from each other and kind of I do feel like we operate really as a team in a lot of ways. So and again with having people around us that are mentors or whatever, that's you know, made it easier to kind of mesh together. So what do you say that you've always wait? Which is sorry? I said, what are you in? Michael? I'm gonna interview U. Michael's seven, So he's an enthusiast, So he's best friend is a seven. Are fun? They love all over the place. Was so fun all over the place. They love to like they don't like to hang on to pain and like sadness. They want to find their joy in life, which is a really great thing. Michael has become a healthy seven too, but like it's an unhealthy seven will skate overpained altogether and not deal with it. And so I feel like we've both been able to like you and bearts have been able to really help each other deal with all of our personal ship and like become the best version of ourselves. I'm a four, so I'm a romantic that's what it's called. Or an individualist. Yeah, bears brother is a four. Gosh, we can be the worst, Like an unhealthy four is exhausting. I know, are really healthy. For um, there's a guy I don't know if you've listening to his music with John Martin Millen. He's a four and he's a really healthy four. And it was funny, um anyways, just to hear him talk about his journey to health. Yeah, totally. And I think we're all there no matter what number you are. But um, anyways, because anyone who's as you like, total creatives and stuff too, total creatives. We think that we're just like the individualists, like no one understands us, you know, we're deep their feelings, Like I feel a feeler, such a feeler like when I'm unhealthy, which honestly, I feel like I've done so much work on myself. I'm always aware when I'm like a little bit spiraling, I feel like the battle it's all. Becoming a new mom has brought me to my knees and brought out a lot of things with my emotional fourness. So I've had to like keep myself in check. But then I also just let myself cry. But I also think that's being a new mom and it's just like so many things. Like I said, your brain is mushy the first like who honestly, I felt like my brain was mushy for about nine months. It'll get better. But when you look back, you're like, gosh, your your body is just offering so much, especially if you're nursing, and even if you're not nursing, you're still feeding a baby. But I mean, you're just there's a lot, there's a huge physical component that is different than anything that you've done before. For sure, you're around the clock, right, it's tied to a child, which you love, but really it's a whole. It's like a death of your old self for sure. Yeah. Yeah, new chapters and that kind of stuff. But I do think like you do find like your abilities start to expands. Interesting way of putting into like that, I think they say with um like having multiple kids. I remember I heard this before I had Woods. Or second, we have Wilder whose four and woods or two year old. UM is that your heart just kind of grows. And I think that's true. And I think as a mom your ability you either get better at delegating task that you know somebody else can help you with, or your abilities just kind of Expand hopefully I'm all about delegating tasks. That's smart. Though. The number one thing is laundry. I of horror laundry and I hate the sheets, the sheets on the bed or what get me like having to take the sheets off the bed and put them on. I don't know why. It only takes like five minutes take them off and five minutes to put them on, But for some reason that task I just dread it. I don't know. So that's great helping get helping yourself to be a better mom, wife, whatever by DELI gating, and that involves like identifying what you need, trusting people. Did you have trouble for asking for help? A lot of people struggle with asking for he to you if I'm just like so selfish, so I don't struggle with I don't. I think I'm pretty good at asking for help. We have um a part time nanny because I still work and my mom and dad live in town. Um So I'm just really fortunate. I mean it's really as you know, um and and as you're going to find out now that you have a babe, with doing the solo parenting thing is hard, um So, I mean having help is critical if you can afford it. I mean I often think about people who are single parents who have really limited resources and just cannot afford any help. You know, were just able to get by, And I don't know how they do it. So my hat's off to them on a whole new level. But for me, I feel like blessed enough to be able to ask for help, and I feel like I don't struggle with asking. Good we have the dust, you know. I call her man nanny, but honestly, she's more like a life manager. She does a little bit of everything for us, and it's just kind of my right hand man, especially when Bear's gone. So that's been awesome. So, okay, you're talking about you and Bear have become this great team. Where did when did y'all meet? We're y'all how old Bear? In college? I was nineteen, your nineteen? How a Bear at the same age. He's two years older than me, so he was like twenty or twenty one. Was a love at first sight. It's a funny story. So we were we both went to Furman in South Carolina and he's a couple was like two grades ahead of me, and he was so this is and then so he played. He was a successful football player there. Um. I went to f c A or Fellowship of Christian Athletes whatever, just a little club there, and he was leading worship and I definitely was like, I'm going to marry him one day. I know that sounds cheap, yes, And I've never an other fun fact, I really didn't have another boyfriend before Bear, which sound supremely dorky, but it's true. It's not like I went into rooms thinking that or had any My mom got married not later in life, but she wasn't like she got married right out of college and stuff. So I never, I mean, those kind of things never crossed my mind. But for whatever reason, I don't know, if I just thought he was cool. Was it about him? I don't know. I mean I do think Bear has a certain presence about him. I mean, obviously I'm special. Yeah, what a great name. Yeah. So anyways, so he was dating somebody else at the time, which I didn't know, okay, um, but about six months later, and this is the dumbest move ever, he sent his buddy to be like, hey, what do you think about Baron Hart? And of course I tried to send his buddy so he'd broken up with his other girl. Very middle school, very middle no, but yeah, he's in his buddy to be like, hey, Miriam's what do you what do you think about Bearon Hart? And I tried to play cool. I was like, I mean he seems okay, it's okay, Yeah, he's all right. So anyways, eventually he is digging on YouTube. Obviously Bear is I mean, I don't know if you've ever been around Bear, but obviously with anybody who's on stage, they have, you know, a huge stage personality whatever. But he's like intensely shy Bear. Yes, for sure. When you see his music videos and hear his voice, it's like he's like a bear. It's a few people are so shocked when they meet him in just a normal setting that he's very my own manner and quiet, Like is he shy? If you have to? Yes, an introvert, He's not a much more of an introvert introvert than me. I'm like a total extrovert, but he's just kind of on the shy side, and so he's much better now. I mean, once you've been in the sort of public arena for a long time, you get better at it. But in college he was intensely shy. And my family is kind of just like me, very talkative, very you know, huggy. I got his stuff. So um, anyways, we started dating that freshman year. We broke up for a little bit. I think that's healthy, we did. He broke up with me, So why do you break up with you know? Right? You know, honestly, like I said, I'd never really dated anybody before, and I felt like I've really got honestly intimidated now. I was kind of more impressed with them, and I think I'll let that intimidate me. So that's normal, though, I feel like, and it was honestly a great, great process. So I went home for the summer after my freshman year and basically spent the whole summer like getting over my heart, heart where you just broken. I was pretty heartbroken about it. Yeah, And of course my my parents are great. My dad was like, you know, still acts like a hung the moon and was like, I don't I don't understand why anybody to break up with you. I was like, it's okay, Dad, It's okay. But by the end of the summer, you know, after you've talked about it a thousand times all your girlfriends, of course, I think I literally went back to school with a lot of mojo and was basically like, if Brad Pitt wanted to date me, he would be lucky. Yes. Man. So I kind of feel like, sort of like, at least she was that way. Yeah, at least in a young adult way. Came into womanhood over that summer. And when we came back, we were in some various clubs together and just kind of restarted our conversation. But I remember he asked me to come hang out or something again. Actually sent him an email and I was like, listen, I'm not interested in being just an apartment groupie. We were not friends before we started dating. I'm not interested in that. So you're either interested in me or not. Just so, I mean, I think men love that. I think after that point, once we came back to school, and I really do, I feel like I grew up over that summer. Then we kind of knew that this was the thing, and then we're all together forever. Since then we were we graduated like a year and a half later. Um I got married at twenty one, so and he was twenty three? No he so he's a little I say, he's two years older than me. He's about maybe sixteen months, so he's he was twenty two? Okaya, close enough? Married or twenty one and twenty two? We did? How do you even know how to do? Right? Yeah? What do you do? We have no jobs? You're basically just how adult parents let me do that? No, wecame an adult three years before you got married? Because right, so, how do you even know how to navigate marriage that young? What do you do as a married person? Like love drunk? I guess? Yeah? We lived and we got married and near those head jobs. Ironically, man was to the big city in Nashville. Look there. We stayed at Union Station that I love that hotel I was back in the day. But um so we stayed there. I remember we went on our honeymoon. You know how people give you like money for your reception and wedding. I think we had twelve hundred dollars and we felt rich. So we were driving home. We'd spent you know, like half of our money whatever. We're like, well, I guess it's time to get jobs. So he, of course was already doing the band, but I need to breathe start did Yeah, like college before I met Bear, like, um, maybe the year before I met there, So they were, um, I say, touring. Honestly, I was their first tour manager. You were there, tor metag. I was now on a very like amateur level. So I would sit in my dorm room literally in college. And Laney can attested to this because she was there, and I remember at were roommates. We were we were mess. She was a great basketball player. By the way. Yeah, I remember seeing Laney the first time, and you look like sisters. You both are tall, skinny, beautiful hair because Laney is beautiful. But remember I saw her because we were We both came to Firman at the same time. And you can't miss Laney because she has white blonde hair and it's like down to her butts one right, And I was like, oh, she's really pretty. She's probably not very nice and I very catty. So I remember she walked up to me one day at again like an FCA or some club. Um, and was like, what kind of shampoo do is in her very Georgia accent? And I was like, I love you and that was it. And then you are roommates. Yeah. Um. So anyways, coming back from our honeymoon, we had to start looking or I had to start looking for jobs. So I looked in the newspaper and what do you find? Got like a nine dollar an hour job. Were you a nurse at that point? I wasn't. I went back to nursing school probably four or five years after we were married. So that's what took us to Charleston. So we're in upstate South Carolina and then moved to Charleston for me to go back to school. I told a joke with Fair that him being on tour made me be like, what do I want to do with my life? So what was that? I was staying in college? I did their book. I would just sit in my dorm room and we would like send out. We'd make little like what you call press kits, which is basically like your record or ep A note, a value, some pictures, whatever, and send it out to people. And I would call and we made up a name for me instead of, you know, trying to make me sound a little older than nineteen years old. Um, I was like, this is Rams Ryan Hart with City Lights Productions. I love that. Ms. Rhin Hart, what a great went. Because I have a double name, which is really confusing, Mary Mary Rains, which is like Mary Elizabeth or something like that. It is my mom's main name. But when you tell people that, they just assume you're kind of saying your last name. Um, so they call you Mary. So in college people just started calling me Reems. But he knows me as Mary Rams. So I just say I answered or whatever. Just hey, use fine rhin Hart, what a cool name. So anyways, but bear callson Mary Rains. Was he able to make money touring at that young in the band's age? You put all the money like back into the van? I'm sure. So y'all just living on Ramen pretty much, I think. I'm so. We lived in Wahalla, South Carolina, so that is a very small town in the state of South Carolina. And we lived in a duplex that was I think three dollars a month a month, and I think I made like three d dollars a week. So what's funny, you're so young and dumb, and I kind of expected, like, well, we'll probably eat beans and ramen for the rest of our lives. I never remember a time feeling like, oh my gosh, we can't make it or poor whatever. You're just young and you don't have a lot of expectations, and so I was fortunate to be able to I mean, we were both fortunate. We had college degrees, so I was able to get jobs fairly easily, so, you know, and we were. When you're that young and naive, you just believe your dreams are gonna work out. So the the idea that you would be a musician and not have a career just doesn't cross your mind, you know. So anyways, that's how it all kind of so talk to me about that, because people will look at your life now and see you and Bear and you are both studying people. Bear has an amazing career. You'all have two beautiful sons. You have an amazing career too. Like as you're on your own, you'll have this beautiful life. People will people will look at you and they'll be like, jeez, like that is the picture perfect life, Like I want I want that. I'm envious of that. But when you are starting out and Bear has no money, his touring hasn't taken off, his career hasn't taken off. You're just finding your way. Did you ever have a moment of like, what if this doesn't work out for him? Like what are we gonna do? Honestly, again, and I know this sounds crazy, I really I think part of the reason we got married is I just sort of I saw who Bear was, and I just believe that he would do what it takes to make it, and maybe not in music, but that would be okay, Like you knew he was gonna make it somehow, yeah, or just I never felt like he was going to leave me hanging in terms of like us not being able to You didn't think you're just quit at life, right right? Yeah? Um, He's just a pretty strong person. And I know that's all. It sounds like I'm fan girling, and certainly I'm not, but I don't know. I think we we both have and had I think a lot of mutual respect for each other and just I don't know. At the time, you feel very capable, you know, and in some ways, when you're young, you are that capable because you're that naive and you don't have all the you don't need a lot, and you don't have maybe as many hang ups as you do when you're you know, in your thirties or whatever, and you're like, you're wide open, right, you really are. And I think, you know, Bear always talks about most of the great artists in the world like that, have you know, changed the world, like Van Go or whatever. We're really young, really really young when they did it, and there's a part of that artistic spirit that I think is there's just something different about it when you're really young versus a little bit older. I agree, So I would trade it, Like I love and appreciate the wisdom that we've gained, but it's just different, you know. It's almost like you need that night Nativity or every site, being naive enough to think you can go full force for these wild dreams because if you had been beat down by the world and like, I don't know, it's like you might not feel like like you could do it right. Right. So what has it been like watching him turn into a star? Like how has that? What has that been like for you? And what does that mean like for your marriage? Because he's probably he would laugh because he's like, she doesn't dream me like a star. Well, that's probably That's a good thing, I do think, because again, and I feel like I say it a lot, and I don't want to say it like a point of pride or something, but I am glad that we've been together since we were kids, just because you don't have that sort of I don't know, I didn't meet him as a fan and then him just as a guy and vice versa, you know, so it's more been cool to see the process, like the hard work that it takes. And then I think when you're in it, and I've always felt very much a part of it, just because you're hopefully you're your person's when you were the tour mat in during the beginning, you've been there from the true But I think one thing that wisdom does bring as you get older. I think when you're young, you're always looking for that next thing. So sometimes you do get an opportunity that you've been hoping for, but by the time, but it usually takes longer than you expected. By the time you're there, you're already thinking about the next time. You rarely stop to enjoy the moment and be like, I'm so thankful that, you know, we had this opportunity, like I have what I've been praying for exactly. You're at least for me, And I think that's one of my struggles is I'm always looking towards the next thing. I think now slowing down in life, it's easier to be like, all right, we're gonna be present and thankful for this moment because there's always more. You know, you could be the biggest star or whatever in the world, and there's sort of your hunger for that is maybe insatiable. But you know, it's been cool for me to see see the process and see how it evolves over time and um, yeah, see some of those opportunities actually come to fruition. It just makes you more thankful for sure. You know. So what has been since you'll have been together since you were just children and now y're you know, you've been in this for a decade, almost two probably six years. I think they've been a band for like eighteen years, and I've been around here for seventeen or so if you count when we're dating. So what's a high and what's a low of being married to a musician. Okay, so hi, I mean, I would say just recently is a good example. I um was able to go to Europe with the Wilder Woods Tour. UM, so you're able to see parts of the world. I have friends who, you know, do various things in life who they just don't have the opportunity to travel as much, and a lot of people would love that opportunity to see. You know, you've been to most of the major cities in the US, a lot in Canada. I've been to Europe twice with that, so UM and I didn't grow up traveling traveling, I mean we traveled regionally, but not all over the country and all over the world. Um. So that's probably one of the things that I would look back and be like, I'm really fortunate that I get to travel, because I know there's so many people who would you know, love to go to some of the places I've gotten to go to. The lows are I think any notoriety, it doesn't matter what level, and probably honestly, any anybody is an adult, you sort of have to work through your identity stuff. And I think sometimes people who do have notoriety have unusual access to things that others, don't you know it invariably have people who think you're great exactly starry eye you're yeah, and just admire you. And that's I mean, I'm totally thankful that the fans, and I you know, I'm a fan too. But I think sometimes if you find your identity in other people's praise, basically U, that can really affect you, and it has affect us. I would I would say we went through sort of dealing with that probably seven or eight years ago. That's probably right when their star was rising. Yeah, I mean they had been touring for a long time and we're well established. But I just more think it was the time in life where you really start probably the time in marriage where you really start to it starts to get hard. You know, in the early days it's so easy, you know, like whatever, but you really start to see each other's weaknesses and really brush up against them and have to deal with them. And you're married and all the new has like warm, right, right, you still love to come home and I'm like bitching about something. You have hundreds of other people who would tell you're great no matter what. You know what, thank you. That's how Mary names and I think that that. I'm so glad you mentioned that because Michael and I've now been together almost ten years, and we've definitely hit some points where it's like you always love that person, but it's like a way sometimes you don't like and he doesn't like me sometimes, and it's like that is like I feel like that is marriage and says normal, and people don't always mention that because when you get married and you have just all of the stars in your eyes and you're like this person, I could never not just be madly in love with this person. You're traveling, you're having sex all the time, You're just like in heaven, Like it's just like this person is the greatest thing that's ever happened to your life. And then here come bills, Here come career stalls, Here come personality traits but you didn't necessarily know about. Here comes like trying to like navigate to personality side by side, and sometimes children. We were fortunate in a way we didn't choose to have children until later we had been married, like twelve years before we had Louder, which honestly allowed us to work through some of that stuff, and I'm sure made parenting and that transition much much easier. Um, but you know, you just start to really get into each other. There's like the ugly stuff that you're either going to have to deal with or you're going to keep running from. And it's probably a snow they get worse. Yeah, So how did you deal with that? How did you not self? How did y'all work together when you hit that spot where it's like, oh gosh, we're in the thick of it. A lot of it was honesty, like really be honest with ourselves and finally really really being honest with each other with all the others that are hurt. It hurts really bad. Yeah, but I will say, and sometimes I get serio it's okay, this is a crying podcast. Yeah. No, it was incredibly painful, but that's my sugar down there. Sorry. Everyone. Although I don't want to relive it, I'm so glad we went through it. I do think we're like so much stronger. So it was a lot of grace and forgiveness, a lot of counseling. And I will say, for me, I feel like in terms of faith, I feel like I known God, but I have never really experienced sort of the cliche of peace that passes understanding, and I really do feel like we were blessed spiritually during that time for God to kind of come along to like be like, Okay, this is gonna hurt, but you need to walk through this, you know, to like kind of always say beauty for ashes and that I really we were in a real dark spot. So why do you think you have to hit the bottom sometimes to find God and to like get that strength within like a marriage. I think that kind of reflects life. I think we're very fortunate in the culture that we live in that life in comparison to many parts of the world is pretty easy. You know, we're not Most of us are not struggling to like fine food, clothing, shelter. We have a basic needs met. We have a fairly comfortable lifestyle. So we kind of have stopped expecting there to be hardship, or if there is, we're like, well it's because of this or whatever. But I think, really, if you as you get older and you take a step back, like life is full of hardships, you can't control you know, what happens tomorrow to you or your children, or your spouse or your friends, whatever. And sometimes I do think kind of running into tragedy is what makes us more human almost, you know. I would say before we sort of went through our dark season, I lived that I've never really had anything bad happened in my life. Not that it was like Peache Keen all the time. I had good parents, was provided for, able to go to school, went to college, got jobs, whatever. And I kind of had a sense that one day I'm gonna run into something that's really really celtic I did. I know that sounds weird, but I definitely did. I was like, my life has been just really rosy, like what what is it going to be? And that's see other people around me and they're dealing with really hard stuff, like something's gonna Were you nervous for it to come? No, I wasn't anxious. I just had a sense that one day And honestly, that's probably like the indiogram six like year, I probably expect the worst just as part of my personality, but um, anyways, I did actually experience that, and yeah, I feel you know, obviously I'm seven years away from kind of the pinnacle of that, and I feel like I can kind of speak in to that now with other people, like you know, it's going to be really hard. Um, but one day you may look back and be like, wow, I needed that to happen, or you know, I wouldn't choose to relive it, but I'm glad it happened, you know. So would you say that even though going through a dark time season and it hurt more than anything, and you had you guys were willing to get honest and vulnerable, to share with each other the hardest things and do the work, do the counseling work too, And he did it both did sure? Yeah? That was like not it was not an option not to you know. So do you feel all though, Like I know you said you would never want relive it, but you are grateful what happened? Like what did it teach you about your marriage? And how did you guys spring forward from there? Like what changed? Gosh? Um? Honestly, I think it was both becoming whole and healthy ourselves. Like it's never I think a lot of times when you run into relational problems, it's never really about your spouse. Yeah, it's more about you and for bearing not on a personal level, Like I would say, I struggle more with guilt and struggles more with shame. So I would say, say, a bad situation happens to me, your relationship, you know, breaks up or something. I generally look some people look and say, well, who can I blame for this? That's not really my personality of mine is more like, oh my gosh, what have I done? You know, like it's my fault? I do that. That's me too. Bear is similar, but I think his is more shame, which actually I think is a little like uglier So how did that come? Whereas I don't feel like I struggle with the self worth component of it. I think it's more like, not only have I done wrong or I've done bad, but I am bad, like I'm not worthy, I'm a bad person, unlovable or whatever. I feel that way to you, Like it's like there's something innately wrong with you, right, and I will. I mean, I think, sure everybody struggles with that sometimes, but I don't feel like that's a deep that's what Bear struggles with. Think, Yeah, I would say that's more Bare deal with the guilt part, but I don't really deal with the shame part. I am more like Bear. Yeah, I deal with the shame like I'm there's something wrong with me. And for him in that scene, For me, it was more letting go of the control aspect and being able to trust, not even him, just like one behold myself and trust that I'm taken care of, not by him even, but just like by the the Lord honestly for me, you know, and I'm gonna be okay no matter what comes my way. And I think for him it was more hearing and feeling like you are lovable, you know, even if I think he would say, realizing that he was loved in his darkest moment by me some but mostly by the Lord, I think was what was life changing, you know, like if I can be loved when I'm my outward ugliest, then it's gonna be okay. How did he get that realization that he can be loved? Honestly? I felt like it was supernatural. Really really, I think for us being able to come together and let go of any dishonesty and be really grossly honest with each other, and then I think it was it kind of open the pathway to you know, receiving that I think from the Lord. I think it's true for all of us. And I think I think sort of this is me getting very philosophical, but I love Philiposa. I think we're all kind of born with this sort of I call it a cosmic distrust that we could be loved fully at our ugliest, in our deepest ugliest depths, by the one who created us, if you caught a cosmic distrust. So we don't believe that we could. I don't think, you know, we come out I've heard I don't know if you ever listened to Tim Keller is a pastor in New York City, but he talked about our first Um. You know, when a baby comes out, they don't come out like, oh, this is great smilling. They're come out screaming, screaming, screaming, And our initial emotion is fear. Really, you know, um, because the world and immediately is scary. You come out of this perfectly warm, safe you're getting started and all your needs are met, and then you're in this cold, scary world. So in kind of philosophical way, I do, I just feel like we all kind of struggle with the idea of like, am I taking care of? Can I trust? UM? I loved? And I think being a parent has I mean, it gives you a million illustrations, you know, with that, so UM, But anyways, I do think we kind of struggle. Our journey is kind of struggling with that. Like, am I one, you know, dad believe that UM cared about on sort of a trans transcendent level by some I mean, obviously I've believe in God, somebody who's created me, and do I believe that he could really really love me warts and all not, but not from me, like earning it just because I am loved, you know, So I think that's kind of anyways, I think that was kind of the revelation that he had, and I do think it was pretty supernatural, honestly, And that's why I say, yes, we after that difficult time, we did a lot of work, you know, and spent a lot of time and counseling and kind of unpeeling the onion. But I will say, like I cannot tell this story without being like this was something that was out of our control, like sort of the Lord did it in our life. And that's why I say it was the first time that I sort of felt like I really really experienced God. So how did that change you actually feeling God? Because I feel that same way. It's like you live your whole life and you you hear about God, you know God's there, you go to church like you're supposed to believe in God. There's a lot of fear with God because if you don't do the right thing, you're going to go to hell. But then, how do you feel different when you actually have a God experience and you're like, I feel this, this marks time in my life, like God has moved me and I know the only thing that it is is God. Like what does that feel like? I do think it's hard to explain in some ways, but I would say it's deep for me. And again, I grew up in church, and you know, I felt like I embraced faith when I was pretty young. Um, and was quote unquote trying whatever that means. And honestly, I think we spend a lot of our life as serially trying and rather we should just be receiving. Um. That's so true. But I think with experiencing it, it was, I guess the best way to describe it, it it was just deeply personal, unlike you know, human to human. Did you feel like a release? Yeah, even though it was immensely painful, it it was a weight lifted. It was like we're gonna be. We're gonna be Okay, this is gonna hurt real bad and take a lot of healing, but we're gonna be all right. And freedom or something, yeah, freedom, And just again that felt like the hand of God was kind of holding you, like being like, all right, it's gonna be. And let's not say I think you know wherever people are in faith or belief or whatever, it's we all just have our own story and that's all we know. And you know, we can't argue with each other's story and experiences. So I think we all are just sort of learning from each other and you know what we experience with others, with the Creator, with our children, you know. So I do think being a parent, you know, it's a game changer. Yeah, totally. How has it opened your mind and heart? What has change for you? It's I would oh gosh, I mean tons of things of chance. She missed being in control in my schedule, but um control of anything. Really. It's funny now having to and seeing how different their personalities are at a very young age, and how really little you have anything to do with it. You know, you're raising him the same way, but already they're so different, So what is the difference between the two of them? So wilder. We should have named him Tranquility because he's obviously living into his name. He is very wild, but in the sweetest way. I mean he just is a ball of energy. And really think he's been that way since he was like teeny tiny, never stops moving. Um, I do think people live into their name. Yeah, it's probably true. Well that's good. You chose a good one. I don't think that wasn't intentional. I'm not kidding you. It's a cute name, and it's it was for that purpose of having a sunny life. Yeah, please have a sunny life. So Water is just a ton of energy, super imaginative. I mean he lives in imagination land all the time. Love superheroes can play by himself for hours just imagining things. But also it's like great with other kids and funny and outgoing. And then Woods he's the sneaky one. He's the two year old and you can already tell he's just he's so cute and he's very lucky. He's cute because he's super demanding, really and he's been that way since he was a baby. Like for here's a perfect picture of his personality. We were at my parents house the other day and my dad was holding him, and um my dad gave a piece of a cookie and he pitched a fit because he wanted the whole cookie. So he knew he was getting shafted. And he'll, you know, if you give him something out of like a potato chip package or something, he'll be like, whole package, give it all or nothing to let you know when he's not happy. But he's super charming and funny. He's more focused and some weird. I mean he's too so obviously you see little glimpses of stuff, but he's a little more focused in water, like he'll sit down and really figure out how something works versus water is kind of flitting all around and you know that kind of stuff. So so yeah, I think learning just that. Obviously his parents were pouring a lot into our kids, but they are their own individual humans and they're going to have their own strengths and weaknesses. And you know, as a parent, you want to make the path like straight and smooth for him, and it's just not going to be. And I think for me, especially being the type of it is going, he wants to be. I don't. I don't. I wouldn't describe myself necessarily as controlling. But I don't like uncertainty, I guess is what I would say. But um, wanting to fix that and just being like, there's gonna be sometimes where he's gonna have to struggle some stuff and there's it's neither a reflection of me. That's interesting doesn't necessarily um and he'll be okay too, you know, Um, that's not going to reflect you know, his entire future necessarily his character or maybe it's a part of the process for him. Um. Even with like preschool right now, he definitely had a couple of weeks where he like struggled bad at school and I think part of it was Bear was had been gone for a while and just dealing with store of the emotions of that. And when your kids teachers are like, it was a really bad day multiple days in a row, you start to get really embarrassed. As a here obviously affect your ego, Yes it doesn't. You're like, oh, this is my child to this is a reflection everything. It's Yes, it's embarrassing. But I told Laney this actually because we were talking about it just boys are funny creatures to raise um. But we were talking about and I said, you know, I have to remember that my love for Wilder can't depend on how he does at school, you know, because it's it is easy to let your ego get in there and you're embarrassed, and then you sort of parents, maybe out of frustration or disappointment. Even what is your egos It's only four? What are I'm gonna do when he's like fifteen or sixteen and making really stupid choices? But what does your ego say about you? What is your ego telling you? When Wilder is misbehaving at school several days in a row, the teachers telling you it's a bad day, Like, what does your ego? What is your ego telling you? For me, it's like, what am I doing wrong? What do I need to do better? How do I need to fix this? And obviously, as apparent, some of that you do need to fix and or work on the intentional try to, you know, make sure they obviously have everything that they need emotionally and stuff. But some of it is just out of your control. But feeling like, you know, I was looking at like seven schools, different schools for him to goes, you know, because I thought it was a school's followed or anything like that just sounds like doesn't need a smaller classroom, does he need a learning style like this or whatever, instead of just being like, you know what, he's going to struggle when Dad is gone for long periods of time, He's probably gonna have some weeks that he struggles, and it just is what it is. Not that I don't try to fix it, but he's not going to be at his best, you know, he's upset and his heart's a little hurt. So just trying to nurture him and provide appropriate boundaries for him, but not take it on as this huge, massive thing, you know, And I think I'm sure that I will learn that more. Again, he's four, he's like a teenager or a young adult, and you know, goes through a season of struggling or making bad decisions or whatever. Again, you're you're the guy, and you do it like what you can and what you're supposed to do. But ultimately they kind of make their own decisions and it's not always going to be the right one or the perfect one or whatever. So I just happen to life. Do you life with them. I don't know what is tough. So you're saying, Bear feel shame, what don't you feel? You don't feel a shame, you feel guilty? More like do you feel? Is that how it breaks down in parenting too? Because like for me, when you're saying this scenario, I immediately think about Sunny when she gets older, and I feel like where I would go would be my ego would go shame, like I have messed up, I have ruined her. This is on me and my ego. It's me, me, me, I have messed up, messed up, messed up. I have to take the full burden. So I feel like I'm gonna go with shame. But do you go with guilt? Like what? Yeah? For me? So I think one of the differences with Bear and I with parenting. I do get worked up about those little things because I have this probably false notion that I can fix it and he has, I think in part two, because I, you know, I was just kind of like your dorky good teenage. I mean, you know, good teenager. I didn't make any huge decisions that had negative consequences. You know, I generally obade my parents, you know whatever, Bear was the opposite. He was way more rebellious than me. Um, And for me, I think there's it's probably a false notion that I can fix this and you know, avoid those things and bears just like listen, He's going to come home one day and have done something really bad, made a bad decision, and it just is what it is. It's not about what you could have done better or should have done. He's just human. So I think he almost is because he's sort of come to grips with that and with the idea of I can you can royally screw up in life, and as long as you were willing to own it and talk to people about it, it's gonna be okay. That is such profound um. A lot of people are scared of that owning party. It's just failure, I think. I do think the benefit of failure is that you get back up again and hopefully doesn't crush you, and then you're not so scared of it, Whereas like, if you're always trying to protect yourself from failure or mistake, then you're just spending like spinning your wheels in anxiety and worry rather than being like, okay, a failure is gonna happen. A mistake is going to happen, but we're gonna keep on chucking. And you have to live up for this false image of perfectionism, which is just unattainable totally, and I think too especially now, I think with with women and culture in general. Obviously, social media and the images that we see are you know, a major part of kind of our daily life. I think I read something recently that we come across thousands of images between television, the internet, even just driving around, you know. Um, and with social media it's even it's your friends, and everybody's life is fairly well curated, you know, and does it. I think people are more and more trying to have it reflect real life, but that doesn't sell products very well. And ultimately those the things that we use are probably driven by you know, good marketing, and otherwise it wouldn't be there. We use it as if it's just daily life, but it's it's a tool that others are using too. But anyways, that was a little bit of a soapbox. But I think we have this additional pressure that maybe and our mothers and our grandmothers had different pressures, I'm sure, but a different pressure to live up to sort of unattainable expectation and unattainable expectation, you know, mm hm, so so after all the things that you have grown like you've grown so much like you, I feel like you have. And I love talking to people who got with their spouses young, because Michael and I got together super young. Laney and Corey got together young, like Laney and Corey were dating. When we're dating, we've known each other from the beginning. That I really love that, especially people in the entertainment industry, because you are a totally different person now than you were then. What would you tell Mary Reams now from your perspective of this wife, this evolved wife, who has learned so much about yourself in marriage, this mother, and now you're and I don't know how old, you're, in your mid thirties, what would you tell young Mary Reams, who's just getting started, who's wide eyed, hasn't anything bad happened yet? Like, what are you going to tell her about the journey ahead? That you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to do it right, and actually you're going to find more richness of life and beauty in some of the mistakes, some failures. Oh that's scary, it hurts, and stop trying to like pursue I don't know, some perfect picture of yourself, of your life of whatever. Just let the sooner you let that go, the more, honestly, the more joy I think you can welcome into your life. You know, all that, all the present stuff, you know, like being present in the moment. You know, you worry about so many I mean, you worry about things all the time. It doesn't matter if you're twenty one or if you're thirty five or what. Um. But so you always have worries. But the sooner you can kind of learn to manage those and get rid of the things that are just silly, you know, and not worth the brain space than the better. So when I'm still learning to we all are will be different when we're like forty five, you know. So, what what is worried to you? Like? What is like? What is that like? Why do we have worried? Where is it coming from? Oh? Gosh, um from I'm not sure if I necessarily know where it's coming from. I know what it looks like it in my life, and I would say it's sort of thinking about the past, thing about the future, but not thinking about the present, not just being in it. And though again, like I said, the more I let go of like ruminating on past things or looking fearfully towards future things, then the better off, you know. And I do think that it takes just practice, and it's hard, especially with having kids. I think it's hard to be diligent about finding that time to just be silent. I feel like I'm good at finding time to go work out or be doing something. I'm pres Yeah, I'm a little bit of a busybody in that way. I don't like to sit still for long, um, but to make myself be like I'm not going to work out, I'm not going to meet a friend right now. I'm I'm going to sit and read or just journal or just be And that's really hard. What happens to you when you're sitting in that moment, like why is that harper to do that? What is it? Is it? Like? Are you scared to do? I think it's the same thing. I think it's thinking what I need to get done or what she should be doing. You know what happens to you when you finally do stop? Though? What do you discover I think it's a centering experience. So that I think, I do you know, you get that extra breath you know, are able to be grateful. Um, and I think being grateful is kind of the door to joy really. So yeah, just presents really. So somebody said my sister is hard when you're a new mom. By the way, it is, Okay, I have so much anxiety. I remember thinking before I had Wilder, I'm gonna have all this time nursing and I'm just gonna read books. And your brain is not I mean, you just can't write that search until the end of the and it I'm sure like scrolling on my phone or whatever while nursing just because you're looking for something easy. It's not hard on your brain. So get yourself grace for that. That is true, because your brain is like I sometimes I'll get to the end of the day and I'm like, I really haven't done a whole lot, but I feel so tired kept a human a life. So I know. But I my sister told me something of this sentiment, and then I saw someone on Instagram. Actually, get so many great messages on Instagram. There's so many helpful people out there. You want to share and help, and so someone told me on Instagram, Um, okay, so like as a new mom, this is terrible, Like I have my worst fears, like what and this is where I go that I am fully responsible for Sunny's life, which right now I am for keeping her alive, but like like every single thing I do has to be perfect or else I will not the well being of her life will suffer. Or let's go worst case scenario, like what happens if something happens that she dies, Like that is like the parents worst fear, and I feel like you can just for me, I can live in this fear cycle of like, oh my god, like I gotta do everything I can to make sure that she is okay. Imperfect in life is great. It's sort of this false sense of being able to control because we're just well, I'm going to make a mistake, Like I am going to make a mistake and I'm not going to do it intentionally, and like accepting the fact that like I'm going to make a mistake and not beating myself up and going down the shame spiral because I know in my heart I didn't do it intentionally and it's not going to kill her or hurt her, but God forbid something happens. Someone told me this on Instagram, and then my sister has told me the same kind of thing. If I am living every single day of her precious life worrying that something awful is going to happen, that she that everything I do is going to affect her negatively, that like I'm gonna if I don't do it perfect, something could happen. I'm gonna miss it. I'm gonna miss her life. I'm gonna miss her joy. And I say, I'm getting all emotional that I miss her joy. I'm gonna miss your nut able to be in it with not be able to be in it because I'm so controlled by fear that it's like I have got to figure out how to because that thing is going to happen no matter if I worry about it or if I don't grieve not being present for her life before. God's really hard. It is so hard. I will say. I think for me, one experience in my life that was really beneficial and parenting one was I worked in the pediatric I see you for a long time. Wow wow wow wow. So one thing that made it easier for me is I didn't have to struggle with like knowing what's normal and what's not. You know, I felt worse. I feel comfortable with babies and newborn so I didn't have to. I mean, that's a huge um thing to overcome as a new mom. Is just like are they breathing? Is this normal? You know? A normal you know, like night Sonny puked, puked, spit up a little bit, and she never like, she took a little nap, and then when she woke up, she spit up, which she's never done. So I went in with a flashlight six times last night when she was sleeping. I'm not even kidding you. She was dead asleep and I just shined on my little line on her to make sure she didn't have spin up six times. I didn't even care if I woke her up. I was like, I put my hand on her chest to make sure she's breathing. Like this is crazy, So I did. I sort of benefited from having that experience with children, but I work obviously working in a pediatric I see you're seeing, Yeah, the worst of the worst things happen, children passing away or getting diseases that you can't fathom and just random tragic accidents and that kind of stuff. So that was an obviously a difficult thing to see when you don't have your own children. You, I mean, in order to work in it, you kind of have to compartmentalize it. But I did at least have to sort of come to grips with the fact that like something crazy, a tragic accident could happen to anybody, and why not me, you know what I mean? So that element of surprise. Maybe that doesn't mean were God forbid something terrible that happened to my children, that it would make it not painful or something like that, but sort of that the element of surprise, or the y me part, or the worrying about it even I mean, we all worry about our children, but it makes it a little bit easier because of seeing firsthand that like you just can't contrid it's not fair and well, honestly, like you said earlier, something happens to everyone in a way, like you said, like you were kind of waiting for the bottom to fall because you've had no pay yet or no. I think in my head at the time, I was like, well, maybe maybe we'll struggle with infertility, maybe I'll have miscarriages or something like that. I think maybe because I was getting towards closer to the age where we would start to think about having kids or something. But yeah, yeah, that the notion that like everybody's going to go through something that really challenges them to their core, and you think about it. If you don't ever, if you never go through life and go through a challenge that really shakes you, or is something that you really really overcome, I mean, I don't know. Maybe maybe your experience is not to say it's not fully human. I don't. I don't know. It's just interesting to think about it, and I think it can't be a full human and not go through something. Most people do experience that. And if you don't, you've you've I guess I would say you've missed out on a major part of the human experience. You know. That's so true, And it's such an opportunity in those moments because you can either take that and you can dig deep, get into the hurt, really feel it and then decide to move forward and upwards and better, or you can let it break you and roneo. Yeah, and some people do, I mean, or some people learn to cope. Maybe in unhealthy ways but are still functional or whatever. But you know, well, least all probably experience something deeply, deeply challenging at some point in life. Not to scare all your young listeners out there, it's true, I mean I feel like now, like being married is one set. It takes you to a new level of like fear and trust and faith and understanding yourself and God and all that, and then add a kid to it and you're at a whole new level. So I mean, I just can't even imagine how the latter runs keep taking you into this human experience. And they say like youth is wasted only young, But then Luke Bryan had that song He's like, I believe youth isn't wasted only young, and I agree, Like, I'm so glad that I was naive when I was young. I had that blessing to be naive and kind of blissful, even though I had like an own set of insecurity looking back, and my god, I was worried about stupid stuff, like it wasn't real. But I'm so glad that there is that youth period where you are a little bit naive, because that is a beautiful time and it prepares you just slowly it prepared a little bit more, a little bit more life. It's a little more more real. Little think each step. I mean, obviously it's just a journey. Each stuff is a part of the process. And I think again, in our culture and just who we are, we're sort of always looking for a means to an end, Like we're trying to get to an end point where we just have this family and this body and you know, these looks are, this career, it's all perfect. Yeah, it's all I was telling very literally last night. We were talking about it, and I was like, you know, I want my puzzle piece, all the pieces to be where they're supposed to be, right in their place. And I was like, but I'm learning if I can't live with some of the peaces being out of place or disjointed, or the puzzle not perfectly bidding together, then I'm then I'm never going to be living because like when in your life is everything perfect, it never is, you know, So I'm going to have to learn to live in the tension of having pieces that are you can't fix, or there's whether it's a relationship um that's disjointed, or a career that's not going the way you want it to go or whatever you know. For me, I think I'm in a season of learning how to how to be joyful and grateful in the midst of my puzzle or not totally fitting together how I wanted to and then miss tension. Yeah, yeah, that is and isn't that luck? And like to the world, it looks like you have everything together. No one would even know that you are living in this place of like tension A little bit, sure, but that is us, that is humans, that is life, and that is why Like I love getting to talk to women like you who will share their heart and story because I think it is so important, especially for women. I mean men I think need this too, but I don't know how to relate to men on the same way that I know how to relate to women. Would you consider yourself a girl's girl or a guy's girl or both? Never neither? Because I always was this individualist and I thought like no one understood me and like I wasn't good enough to be fully seen or loved by anyone. Yeah, so like I always felt like I was trying to keep up and impressed or like, yeah, I've always been a girl's girl like always have. You know, I just had rich, you know, female relationships, great good friends that I feel like I could share share their heart and I could too. And that's a struggle for some people. For sure. I feel like I sound that in my adulthood. Like now, I would definitely say I'm a girl's girl because I love women, But like I had to grow into that, and I had to get to place record trust that like these people actually love me, trust and that they're not going to like judge me or like think that like I am a total loser because I used to thank people would like not like me. Yeah. Yeah, So I think I had to grow into the fact that like, okay, not like you care about but it's the same thing you would look from the outside and be like, she's beautiful, she has this amazing life, this amazing personality, all the things, and everybody, I don't care who you are, probably everybody has to overcome insecurity on some level. You know. I think I had to give a point where I'm like, okay, women, like people aren't out to get me, Like I used to think people like I wouldn't like me, like I was innately a bad person and what's so weird? Like I mean objectively that the opposite is true, you know, but we just kind of live out of those perceptions that we have um and hopefully, hopefully part of counseling is like breaking all those down, Like I can let people see me and not only will they like me, some people might and that might not. And you know, don't you find all be someone's cup of tea. But I love sharing women's stories like yours because I feel like we as women, especially a Nashville in this community, like people are willing to share and talk about life and be open. And I think that is such a blessing because I know some people don't have the confidence or the there's not in a environment that is a sharing environment. But everyone needs to know that we are all on the same walk and journey and we're all going through it no matter if you are, like in a life that's like traveling the world married to musician and arenas like doing all this stuff, You're still dealing with life just like someone else's, you know, who may feel like their life is a total like hot mess and like nothing's going right and they'll never get a break, or like all these things are stacked against them, but like we all are going through the same issues, right, and I think to varying degrees, Like some people share their struggles or vulnerability very publicly and that's okay, that's not I mean, I think I'm pretty open, but um, and most open with like my closest people who have been friends with since forever or new friends that are just I call like soul friends, you know. Um, but as long as you have you know. Again, with with social media and stuff, I think it can kind of give a false sense of community. And I think it's always important for us to remember that there's some things that if we feel comfortab sharing like publicly, great, but it's okay to have a few things that are just for you, or you and your spouse or you and your closest closest people. Um. I agree with that, you know totally. So anyways, but you know, I want to talk to you with other people. I want to talk to you forever. But we are already at an hour and two minutes. Can you believe that? I love it? And I feel like Sunny just started crying, so perfect timing. So I leave all my interviews to leave your life. So just leave some inspiration. What do you want people to know? Oh gosh, I need to prepare for that. Now. I miss what I've said. Like life is a journey. It's there's gonna be ups and downs. Even if most of your life has been up, there's gonna be downs, and you're gonna be okay, you know, but you have to ask for help to be okay. Honestly, So that's been my experience so far. Don't for help, right, yeah, I love you. Don't be scared asked for help? Yeah? So why do you think people are scared to ask for help? I think insecurity. I think whether you know, and for various reasons, whether you know, we sort of have a need to appear strong and that shows kind of a chink in our armor, or we you know, have lost all ourselves worth and feel like asking for help is just another reason for people to not love you, or whatever it might be. But I think it's I think it's sort of goes back to that idea of distrust. We just it's hard for us to it's vulnerable, I guess, to um trust others, you know, because you can get hurt, and so if you're if we're always protecting ourselves from getting hurt, then we can't be vulnerable, and then we can't receive love from other people. So at least that's what I'm learning and my journey kind of On that drop the mic, Mary reads, Ryan Heart, thank you, we're joining. Then you can tell me if this podcast is so boring that you don't want to nothing boring about Okay with that, this was so thank you for sharing and being so open the best. Okay, bye,