From the newsroom.

From the newsroom.

A news still come today.

A news still come today.

Good day there. I'm Andrew Bucklow. Well, as the saying goes, the news never stops. And let me tell you, the news dot com dot au team are primed and we're ready to cover some pretty big events coming up over the next few days. We've got a few lads over in Las Vegas for the NRL season openers. I hope those reporters are behaving themselves, but you know what, I doubt it. Subavaria Entertainment team are in LA for the Oscars, which are coming up on Monday morning our time. Conan O'Brien is hosting this year, which I'm so excited about. He recently told GMA how he's feeling no pressure. I mean, there's a ton of pressure, but I don't feel it because I take a lot of different medications and so I don't feel anything right now.

Good day there. I'm Andrew Bucklow. Well, as the saying goes, the news never stops. And let me tell you, the news dot com dot au team are primed and we're ready to cover some pretty big events coming up over the next few days. We've got a few lads over in Las Vegas for the NRL season openers. I hope those reporters are behaving themselves, but you know what, I doubt it. Subavaria Entertainment team are in LA for the Oscars, which are coming up on Monday morning our time. Conan O'Brien is hosting this year, which I'm so excited about. He recently told GMA how he's feeling no pressure. I mean, there's a ton of pressure, but I don't feel it because I take a lot of different medications and so I don't feel anything right now.

Oh good, yeah, God. I love Conan.

Oh good, yeah, God. I love Conan.

And another event we're ready to cover is the Sydney Game and Lesbian Marti Gras, which is tomorrow, the first of March. It's such a fun parade, right, but I think sometimes it's easy to forget what the point of it is and how it actually started.

And another event we're ready to cover is the Sydney Game and Lesbian Marti Gras, which is tomorrow, the first of March. It's such a fun parade, right, but I think sometimes it's easy to forget what the point of it is and how it actually started.

So.

So.

It was first held in nineteen seventy eight and was in tended to be a night of celebration, but instead it ended in a night of shocking police brutality that saw homosexuals assaulted and locked up. Here's a news report from the time.

It was first held in nineteen seventy eight and was in tended to be a night of celebration, but instead it ended in a night of shocking police brutality that saw homosexuals assaulted and locked up. Here's a news report from the time.

Sydney's gay community celebrated International Homosexual Solidarity Day with the Marti Gras.

Sydney's gay community celebrated International Homosexual Solidarity Day with the Marti Gras.

And King's Cross.

And King's Cross.

At about midnight, the celebration turned into what police say was an illegal procession and more than fifty people were arrested on charges ranging from taking part in the procession to malicious injury.

At about midnight, the celebration turned into what police say was an illegal procession and more than fifty people were arrested on charges ranging from taking part in the procession to malicious injury.

Yeah, that's not quite how it played out. In this episode, we're going to chat to one of the people who organized the very first Mardi Gras march, who revealed what really happened on that infamous night which changed Australia's gay rights movement forever. Well, Ken Davis, let me begin by saying it is an absolute privilege to chat to you.

Yeah, that's not quite how it played out. In this episode, we're going to chat to one of the people who organized the very first Mardi Gras march, who revealed what really happened on that infamous night which changed Australia's gay rights movement forever. Well, Ken Davis, let me begin by saying it is an absolute privilege to chat to you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Before we get into the first ever Mardi Gras march, can you give me an idea of what it was like to be gay in New South Wales in the late nineteen seventies and what the laws were like at the time.

Before we get into the first ever Mardi Gras march, can you give me an idea of what it was like to be gay in New South Wales in the late nineteen seventies and what the laws were like at the time.

Yeah, sure, So essentially in the seventies, very few homosexuals in public life. There were sprinkling of bisexuals and transsexual people.

Yeah, sure, So essentially in the seventies, very few homosexuals in public life. There were sprinkling of bisexuals and transsexual people.

In New South Wales, the.

In New South Wales, the.

Abominable crime of buggery, which is, you know, sex between men was fourteen years jalen whipping, which was twice the penalty of rape. Sydney was big center for psychiatry, and so until the late seventies psychiatry in general did very invasive procedures to cure lesbianism or homosexuality, brain operations or aversion therapy and other really invasive psychiatric interventions, and all but a few religious communities define homosexuality between women and men as a sin. So the outlook for people was pretty bleak. But you know, the seventies was a time of enormous international social change, and we had a demonstrations in nineteen seventy one and then in nineteen seventy three we had national demonstrations where a lot of people were arrested because there was no protection if people were publicly engaged in activism. I suppose it was very dangerous for your family, or for your school, or for university, or for particularly for your employment.

Abominable crime of buggery, which is, you know, sex between men was fourteen years jalen whipping, which was twice the penalty of rape. Sydney was big center for psychiatry, and so until the late seventies psychiatry in general did very invasive procedures to cure lesbianism or homosexuality, brain operations or aversion therapy and other really invasive psychiatric interventions, and all but a few religious communities define homosexuality between women and men as a sin. So the outlook for people was pretty bleak. But you know, the seventies was a time of enormous international social change, and we had a demonstrations in nineteen seventy one and then in nineteen seventy three we had national demonstrations where a lot of people were arrested because there was no protection if people were publicly engaged in activism. I suppose it was very dangerous for your family, or for your school, or for university, or for particularly for your employment.

Far out well.

Far out well.

You helped organize the first Marto gram March, which was on Saturday, June twenty four, nineteen seventy eight. What was the intention of the march when you were planning it.

You helped organize the first Marto gram March, which was on Saturday, June twenty four, nineteen seventy eight. What was the intention of the march when you were planning it.

We hadn't been doing it a lot in the late seventies, but the gay community, commercial gay community in Sydney was growing rapidly and suddenly, and the situation in America was that they'd made a lot of social gains, but there was a backlasher Christian right backlash let initially by Natie Bryant from Florida.

We hadn't been doing it a lot in the late seventies, but the gay community, commercial gay community in Sydney was growing rapidly and suddenly, and the situation in America was that they'd made a lot of social gains, but there was a backlasher Christian right backlash let initially by Natie Bryant from Florida.

If homosexuals are allowed their civil rights, so were prostitutes or thieves.

If homosexuals are allowed their civil rights, so were prostitutes or thieves.

Or anyone else.

Or anyone else.

And in California there was a referendum to remove anyone that supported gay rights from any job in the California school system. So activists in San Francisco asked for support for Gay Freedom Day, which is the end of June, an international event, and I got together a coalition of religious gay religious groups, gay service groups, the campus gay groups, and socialist groups to organize an event. So the first thing we organized was a forum on Saturday afternoon. Then we got ambitious and we organized the street march on the Saturday morning, which attracted about five hundred people, and then some people were keen to do something different, which was a late night celebration, not a protest, much a celebration in Oxford Street to try and attract people out of the bars, and we got police permission for that. I thought it was a bit adventurous, but it was an experiment in doing something completely different. We had police permit, and we had I don't know, maybe just started. A thousand people assembled, about ten thirty at Talla Square.

And in California there was a referendum to remove anyone that supported gay rights from any job in the California school system. So activists in San Francisco asked for support for Gay Freedom Day, which is the end of June, an international event, and I got together a coalition of religious gay religious groups, gay service groups, the campus gay groups, and socialist groups to organize an event. So the first thing we organized was a forum on Saturday afternoon. Then we got ambitious and we organized the street march on the Saturday morning, which attracted about five hundred people, and then some people were keen to do something different, which was a late night celebration, not a protest, much a celebration in Oxford Street to try and attract people out of the bars, and we got police permission for that. I thought it was a bit adventurous, but it was an experiment in doing something completely different. We had police permit, and we had I don't know, maybe just started. A thousand people assembled, about ten thirty at Talla Square.

About twenty percent were in costume.

About twenty percent were in costume.

I was wearing a country in western frock, and we had a soundtrack, but we didn't have good dance music. But the police changed their attitude just after we started and made us move very fast down Oxford Street and stopped us like ending at Hyde Park, and so spontaneously people went down College Street and up William Street to the Cross which was another area with gay bars.

I was wearing a country in western frock, and we had a soundtrack, but we didn't have good dance music. But the police changed their attitude just after we started and made us move very fast down Oxford Street and stopped us like ending at Hyde Park, and so spontaneously people went down College Street and up William Street to the Cross which was another area with gay bars.

And after we were dispersing.

And after we were dispersing.

It along Main Fountain, the police blocked off the roads and started flivicious attacks and arresting people. But I think what they didn't expect was initially the lesbians and then the you know, all the people in the streets started fighting back and fifty three people were taken to Darlinghurst Police Station which is now Utopia Museum and very badly treated, you know, including one guy who was beaten, very dangerously beaten. And get lawyers or doctors in this is you know, in the middle of the night. You know, it's before mobile phones or ATMs, so people were physically going around to collect cash for bail. And about ten am the next morning, the last women were released from Central Police Station.

It along Main Fountain, the police blocked off the roads and started flivicious attacks and arresting people. But I think what they didn't expect was initially the lesbians and then the you know, all the people in the streets started fighting back and fifty three people were taken to Darlinghurst Police Station which is now Utopia Museum and very badly treated, you know, including one guy who was beaten, very dangerously beaten. And get lawyers or doctors in this is you know, in the middle of the night. You know, it's before mobile phones or ATMs, so people were physically going around to collect cash for bail. And about ten am the next morning, the last women were released from Central Police Station.

So that's in a nutshore what happened.

So that's in a nutshore what happened.

Can you just take me back to what happened in that confrontation between police. Why did they suddenly change their tactics and turn on the people taking part in the march.

Can you just take me back to what happened in that confrontation between police. Why did they suddenly change their tactics and turn on the people taking part in the march.

Look, I think you've got to remember sitting at the time, like Darlinghurst Police in particular, but police in general had a big reputation for corruption. There was a chant we had stop police attacks on gays, women and blacks. You know, there's been a lot of rapes in Darlinghurst Police Station. Women and what we're not now called transgender people and indigenous people been a lot of bashing.

Look, I think you've got to remember sitting at the time, like Darlinghurst Police in particular, but police in general had a big reputation for corruption. There was a chant we had stop police attacks on gays, women and blacks. You know, there's been a lot of rapes in Darlinghurst Police Station. Women and what we're not now called transgender people and indigenous people been a lot of bashing.

You know, we just thought we'd have a celebration.

You know, we just thought we'd have a celebration.

In Oxford Street, you know, like a bit of a street party or a festival or a martigrahs. And I think what had happened was the police and the other powers that be got really affronted that there were lesbians and gay men, you know, in the streets in the middle of the night, you know, in a place that they thought was very much under their control, and you know, it was very disruptive for them. This is before reclaim the night marches or any of that stuff. So, and also on the Monday, I think the heralds published the names and addresses and jobs and ages of the fifty three arrested, and that led to enormous trouble for you know, people in their jobs and with their families and stuff.

In Oxford Street, you know, like a bit of a street party or a festival or a martigrahs. And I think what had happened was the police and the other powers that be got really affronted that there were lesbians and gay men, you know, in the streets in the middle of the night, you know, in a place that they thought was very much under their control, and you know, it was very disruptive for them. This is before reclaim the night marches or any of that stuff. So, and also on the Monday, I think the heralds published the names and addresses and jobs and ages of the fifty three arrested, and that led to enormous trouble for you know, people in their jobs and with their families and stuff.

Right, So the media named and shamed some of the people who were arrested. And at a time when, as you mentioned, it wasn't really okay to be publicly gay.

Right, So the media named and shamed some of the people who were arrested. And at a time when, as you mentioned, it wasn't really okay to be publicly gay.

Not at all, not at all. I mean, there was no antid discriminational protection. As I said, sex twin men was completely illegal. A lot of people were arrested by pollutione entrapment in public places. Lesbians were arrested for public affection. There was a body of law called summary offenses, which was really about police power in public places, about the right to march, about sex work, drinking, Indigenous people the same sex affection or you know things like that. So day men were arrested in bars for dancing, for example.

Not at all, not at all. I mean, there was no antid discriminational protection. As I said, sex twin men was completely illegal. A lot of people were arrested by pollutione entrapment in public places. Lesbians were arrested for public affection. There was a body of law called summary offenses, which was really about police power in public places, about the right to march, about sex work, drinking, Indigenous people the same sex affection or you know things like that. So day men were arrested in bars for dancing, for example.

Well, despite the trauma of the event, that first Marti Gras March in nineteen seventy eight was the catalyst for change. In just a moment, Can we'll explain what laws were changed as a result. Welcome back on chatting to Ken Davis who helped organize the very first Marti Gras march in Sydney all the way back in nineteen seventy eight. Can can you talk about the change that occurred as a result of that march.

Well, despite the trauma of the event, that first Marti Gras March in nineteen seventy eight was the catalyst for change. In just a moment, Can we'll explain what laws were changed as a result. Welcome back on chatting to Ken Davis who helped organize the very first Marti Gras march in Sydney all the way back in nineteen seventy eight. Can can you talk about the change that occurred as a result of that march.

So there was a trajectory from the Marti Gras.

So there was a trajectory from the Marti Gras.

About repeal of the Summary Defences Act, dropped the charges against the people that were arrested not only on the Marti Gras night, but in all the subsequent demonstrations later in the year and then nine one eighty two, New South Wales became the momentum of the Martigra and lobbying meant and you know that people took sides, like the trade unions and people in the Labor Party, in the women's movement and so on took sides of these questions. So we were able to be the second legislature in the world to include homosexuality as grounds for discrimination after I think Quebec, and that was a really really big change that you know, you couldn't be denied services or jobs or education on the basis of homosexuality. And then nineteen eighty four, after HIV was already a big crisis in Sydney, you know, we got partial repeal of the you know, the buggery laws in New South Wales. So there was a trajectory of change by the First Martigra. And I guess I want to say that the motivation of First Matigra was about internettionalism, like we realized our issue was international and last century.

About repeal of the Summary Defences Act, dropped the charges against the people that were arrested not only on the Marti Gras night, but in all the subsequent demonstrations later in the year and then nine one eighty two, New South Wales became the momentum of the Martigra and lobbying meant and you know that people took sides, like the trade unions and people in the Labor Party, in the women's movement and so on took sides of these questions. So we were able to be the second legislature in the world to include homosexuality as grounds for discrimination after I think Quebec, and that was a really really big change that you know, you couldn't be denied services or jobs or education on the basis of homosexuality. And then nineteen eighty four, after HIV was already a big crisis in Sydney, you know, we got partial repeal of the you know, the buggery laws in New South Wales. So there was a trajectory of change by the First Martigra. And I guess I want to say that the motivation of First Matigra was about internettionalism, like we realized our issue was international and last century.

I know that sounds weird. You know, there was a lot of progress on democracy.

I know that sounds weird. You know, there was a lot of progress on democracy.

There was the over in the early seventies, the overthrow of the dictatorships in you know, Southern Europe for example, and then you know the overthrow of the Soviet Bloc and so on. So there's progress about democracy and democratic rights and human rights and you know, decolonization in the seventies. But this century, we've got to return to authoritarianism and human rights for everybody in a lot of countries are going backwards fast, and democratic space is going backwards. So I think important in our movement is attention to a set of human rights issues, not just ours, and attention to what's.

There was the over in the early seventies, the overthrow of the dictatorships in you know, Southern Europe for example, and then you know the overthrow of the Soviet Bloc and so on. So there's progress about democracy and democratic rights and human rights and you know, decolonization in the seventies. But this century, we've got to return to authoritarianism and human rights for everybody in a lot of countries are going backwards fast, and democratic space is going backwards. So I think important in our movement is attention to a set of human rights issues, not just ours, and attention to what's.

Going on in the world as a whole and particularly.

Going on in the world as a whole and particularly.

Countries neighboring us, and that's part of what makes Marti Gras create a bit relevant.

Countries neighboring us, and that's part of what makes Marti Gras create a bit relevant.

Still, Wow, it's an incredible story ken obviously very traumatic for everyone involved, but amazing that it has inspired such change. You must be proud of everyone that took part in that initial march back in nineteen seventy eight.

Still, Wow, it's an incredible story ken obviously very traumatic for everyone involved, but amazing that it has inspired such change. You must be proud of everyone that took part in that initial march back in nineteen seventy eight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, by the time of the police intervention, as we say in the christ you know, there was like fifteen hundred or more people involved, and I think the police thought by attacking the lesbians that you know, they didn't expect anyone to resist, and feelings were very polarized, so a lot of non gay people, you know, in the streets were motivated to get involved on our side. So that was a very particular moment in Australian history. But having the second Marti Gras in seventy nine was the real victory because a lot of gay business and gay media and gay groups were very hostile, and that we had a peaceful and successful second Marti gra with I think three thousand or more people in seventy nine meant that we could do it every year and we can retur haining this queer sensibility like satire, humor, creativity.

Well, you know, by the time of the police intervention, as we say in the christ you know, there was like fifteen hundred or more people involved, and I think the police thought by attacking the lesbians that you know, they didn't expect anyone to resist, and feelings were very polarized, so a lot of non gay people, you know, in the streets were motivated to get involved on our side. So that was a very particular moment in Australian history. But having the second Marti Gras in seventy nine was the real victory because a lot of gay business and gay media and gay groups were very hostile, and that we had a peaceful and successful second Marti gra with I think three thousand or more people in seventy nine meant that we could do it every year and we can retur haining this queer sensibility like satire, humor, creativity.

It's sort of public art.

It's sort of public art.

I think we can speak truth to power in the proper way that Marti Gras or the Feast of Fools in Christianity is supposed to be about, like to tear down the arrogance of power structures. But I think Marti Gras people want a bit of a sexual edge to it, and they want humor and satire and talent, you know. I think that's the continuing relevance of Mardi Gras well.

I think we can speak truth to power in the proper way that Marti Gras or the Feast of Fools in Christianity is supposed to be about, like to tear down the arrogance of power structures. But I think Marti Gras people want a bit of a sexual edge to it, and they want humor and satire and talent, you know. I think that's the continuing relevance of Mardi Gras well.

It's only grown since then. It is now one of the world's largest LGBTQ plus festivals. And you were there at the beginning of it, a big part of the reason that we celebrate it today. Ken Davis, thank you so much for Chattington News dot com dot AU.

It's only grown since then. It is now one of the world's largest LGBTQ plus festivals. And you were there at the beginning of it, a big part of the reason that we celebrate it today. Ken Davis, thank you so much for Chattington News dot com dot AU.

All right, thank you, had a good day.

All right, thank you, had a good day.

What an amazing man. The Mardi Gras Parade is taking place in Sydney tomorrow and we will bring you all the color at news.

What an amazing man. The Mardi Gras Parade is taking place in Sydney tomorrow and we will bring you all the color at news.

Dot com dot au.

Dot com dot au.

Thanks for listening, follow us, subscribe to from the newsroom, wherever you get your podcasts.

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