WR rankings and training camp battles to watch on today’s dynasty fantasy football podcast! Borg, Betz, and Mike discuss and debate the middle tiers of dynasty WR rankings! Which non-elite wide receivers can be difference makers in dynasty leagues? Jordan Addison, Rashee Rice, Stefon Diggs and many more players discussed on this episode! Join Borg, Betz, and a Baller each week to take your Dynasty fantasy football game to the next level and dominate your league -- Fantasy Football Podcast for July 10th, 2024.
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Welcome to the Fantasy Footballer's Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets and a baller.
You. Welcome in. It's Wednesday, July tenth. We're back Fantasy Footballer's Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Worganoni and I am joined by Matthew Betts and Mike Wright.
Welcome in. How you boys doing.
Doing all right? How was the fourth for everybody? Oh?
Patriotic?
Is ever? I mean? Marca?
Am I right? That was fun?
Man.
We were at my in law's lake house a little time on the on the boat, got the girls out in the water for a bit, played some golf, played horribly, but you know, flipped some burgers on the grill. It was pretty much your all American weekend.
Nice. I was at my pool house, which is just my house because I have a pool. He's just over He's like I was a lake he's all fancy, Like, uh, I stayed home and I grill.
Well, when you were talking, it's like I've been your house, Mike, Like, I was like, man, a pool house. Mike must have added on this really cool pool house in the back of bed. He never showed anyone.
It's a bedroom.
I did have a funny moment talking to my kids, I was like, Hey, do you guys know why we do the fourth And I was like, oh, did they want a history lesson? It's like they had no clue, no clue. My kids are young, but it's like they were just like, uh, well we just get together because of American And I was like, well that's good enough for me.
Basically, what I what I did really appreciate Kyle about year fourth of July weekend and you know, imagine never logging off Twitter. It literally couldn't be me. So I'm always logged on and I see at kyle underscore work post far too many minutes of Will Levis playing quarterback in the NFL. On the Sunday at fourth of July weekend, Kyle, I am begging you, brother, go outside, please see some sunlight. I mean, if you're doing that on like a Wednesday, you know, during normal work hours, that's fine, But on fourth of July weekend, I mean that is just next level. So that is the amount of attention Kyle gives. This show gives, you know, the listeners, the audience, his content because I know you need it. But Kyle, brother, please see some sun.
Thirty six minutes. Will Levis didn't do anything.
For you, I mean too much. I watched some of it and was like, woof these are I mean you could you could put on the Benny Hill music during that thing and it would be just fine.
It was a roller coaster Ryan because a lot of times it was back to back place where it was like, oh my gosh, this is a forty yard deep play where like Chris Moore had a ton of plays in there, and then the next play is like sack fumble. Yeah, the other team has the ball and they're totally screwed. But I in my defense, both my boys ended up being sick for the July weekend after so I was at home and just you know me Will Levis.
The play I had forgotten was the like I think was it might have been a fumble fumble for war Pick. I can't remember, but it was a turnover and then Will Levis runs out and like gets the ball back almost. I think it was all called back on a penalty.
It was against the Colts. He tried to he tried to do all this funny stuff. I mean, I I it was comedic.
I liked the hustle. He's like, oh, this was my fall. I better go fix the problem because I'm a mullion.
This wasn't supposed to be a Will Levis show. But I think the question is we're asking, like can it work? Maybe and maybe it probably won't.
He was extremely bad.
We'll talk about that. We'll talk about but we're going to talk through some of these Titans wide receivers and their dynasty values. So we're we're gonna talk about it, all right.
Okay, we'll save that there on this show. We're gonna be doing part two of our Dynasty wide Receiver Tiers. We'll talk about some of the rankings of players past the top twenty four and I think for a lot of people, there's some movement of where these players are going to be in twenty twenty five. So it's like I want to make my bet right now on this player and be on the right side of it as opposed to a year from now. It's like, oh, man, I thought Traylon Burks was gonna be in this tier. Speaking of Titans, do they even consider him a Titan on the team? Like does Callahan and the rest of people like even consider him part of the team.
I don't know that they do.
They have not been kind no at all, like just very blunt, like oh yeah no, like he'll do some kick return stuff.
It's like falling out.
So I mean like factor in the emotion part. I mean, I guess we have a new regime now, but it's like the last regime, like it was a one for one replacement of Aj Brown. Like that is what happened. And we all look, we do it as fantasy football players, like you love a guy, you're confident in him, you draft him high. It's a disaster, and now like your love, the equality side or the equal side of the love has now flipped to that equal of hatred. I think that's what happened to the Titans.
The Titans are a dynasty team that just said, hey, we're gonna keep going with this formula. We're gonna see if it works. We're gonna trade, you know, our wide receiver and get it get a one, you know, because a one could be anything, It could even be Aj Brown. And then it came crashing down. I mean, the regimes over I I looked at it. Rabol came in twenty eighteen and they made the playoffs the first four years. They were a one seed one year. I don't know if you guys remember that, like they were awesome and then just crumb crashing down. So before we get into this, I did want to mention some of the stuff that we've been updating in the Ultimate Draftkit, Ultimate Draftkit dot Com, the Dynasty Pass. We're adding in a couple of new things, like I have a Dynasty Tiers article for the wide receivers that's exclusive just to that. We'll go through this giant list, so we're not going to mention every single guy that's in there. Bets, you're working on a monster article right now for training camp preview that goes through every single team, and we'll talk about that. But the Draft Analyzer is out right now. If you want to analyze your Dynasty team, Mike, I know you just want a championship, but does do you like your own team according to your projections and rankings?
I do. That's a good feeling that might surprise you that I love my good players.
So you can get in that Ultimate Draftkit dot Com and we're going to continue to add resources all throughout the offseason, guys, a month a month really until we start seeing some preseason action. So speaking of action, Bets, you're writing this article about training camp battle, and that's my quick question for us, which training camp battle are you most interested? And for Dynasty this is shifting their running back two, running back three, some of these wide receiver battles, So, Bets, why don't you start off first? Which battle are you looking at right now? For training camp?
Zach Moss is like, I'm losing sleep at night. Boys.
You guys are sick, because like you're sick, Bets, you're sick.
Okay, everything in this player's you know, from what he entered the NFL till now says this is a bad bet, right, like just running backs that are thrust into RB one opportunities that have never really been talented or the main show hit.
Me with it?
Do you have it up in front of you?
I do that. So I went back from twenty fourteen. So running backs drafted twenty fourteen. Moving forward, we have seventy one players who have finished inside the top twenty four at least one time, and guys who hit their first top twenty four season in year five of their career. Of those of those seventy one players, it was three and two of those players were undrafted free agents, and the other one was James White. Like the arc type of the player who in year five is ready for a breakout is uh, there's three, so it's it was four point two percent of the seventy one in my sample size. So and I'm with you. I don't want to steal your thunder for the argument, but I am I am also losing sleep on Zach Moss.
I mean, yeah, just that stat that you just shared says like this shouldn't work and it probably won't work, but maybe maybe it'll work for us. But then I was going back in you know this monster article, which is it's gonna be like ten thousand words, so you're gonna need some time off of work to actually read it. Basically is looking at like some of the advanced numbers and like how could this work? And who's gonna take the job. And it's like, man in this offense, Like Joe Mixon's a pretty good NFL running back. He's not elite, he's definitely a better then some other things. Yeah, he's fine, but he gets the job done. He does what he's asked. And Chase Brown, I'm not sure is going to do that. He was asked to pass block on eight total snaps last year. He played the most in a single week last year thirty percent of the snaps, Like they never really gave him a workload, and so at worst, to me, this is a fifty to fifty split with in theory, Chase Brown getting quote unquote passing work and Zach Moss getting the early down work and certainly the goal line work. Joe Mixon was top five in the NFL and carries inside the ten year old line last year, and we know that this team is going to run out of shotgun. That's what Zach Moss did very very well a year ago. So I kind of find myselves on both sides of it where I'm like, this archetype doesn't work, and then I like dig into the numbers and the football scheme and the offense with with Joe Burrow before being injured last year, they were top eight both seasons and points per play when he's been healthy, so it's an offense we like. Vegas is projecting a ton of points, their top ten in points projected scored this year. I think he could just be like fine from a talent standpoint, but literally falling the end zone eleven times and you're like, there's the RB fifteen this year.
Right.
It's like I see both sides of it, where like in Dynasty, I might be using this little opportunity to be like, you know what, I may never get a chance to trade away Zach Moss ever again. But at the same time, in redraft circles like I kind of get it and I'm kind of in on Zach Moss, do.
You so let me put this to the test. So you're a running back needy team, you see Zach Moss out there, You're you're like, hey, i'd love to get an RB two this year. What's the price? Is it the second round pick?
It's the second and that's me a second.
It's fair, and it's you just don't want to be Madison, Yeah, you do not want that. That's the worst case scenario in this is you're trading for a player who's never done it before now gets the role and you're like, oh, gosh, he's inefficient.
That's the concern.
And it's like that' and sa Mere White, who like, if you're making the bet right now, bets for your Dynasty team, you can flip a second. Are you going to take Zach Moss, so the older player, further along in his career yet to like to me, seems more likely to hit the the volume thresholds that we need for a top twenty four running back because it's him and Chase Brown running. Or z Amir White, who look, he's a year three player. We haven't seen very much of him. We've really just seen a four game sample and he was way better than his teammate Josh Jacobs and that when he got to do it. Who are you trading for? Man?
If we're using biceps size as the indicator here, I mean Zamir is well, that is that's breaking. Dude is rocked. Okay, if you haven't seen, go on Twitter. There's the pictures going around. This man's biceps are bigger than my quad's. Okay, bro, it.
Looks like his forearms, like the angle of the picture is like his forearms are as big as his bicid. He's just looking like just absolutely gigantic.
Which in all seriousness, like will this guy actually be able to run because his arms and legs are so huge? But just from a talent standpoint, you know, like both guys to me are kind of similar, Like I don't think either one is great. I think Zamir White was so so fortunate last year in the games where they were able to actually get out to a lead and just milk the clock, which is what Antonio Pierce wants. That's what Luke Getzi wants. That was all well and good. But you know they played against like East and Stick for you know, part of the season there when he was at the end, there was you know, a couple of games there they got ahead with like backup quarterbacks. They had the weird like Christmas miracle, fluky victory over the Chiefs. Like I don't know, Vegas is not projecting. You know, sportsbooks are not protecting this team to be very good. They are favored in just two games all year. One of those is against the Panthers. The other one is the Broncos. So like, I get that Antonio Pierce wants to run the ball. I get that the identity wants to be let's be tough, let's hand it off every play. This is the identity of the team. That's all well and good, But can you do that when you're down two scores in the third quarter, right And I'm just not sure, So to me, I'd rather take the better offense, better touchdown upside with Sack Moss. I'm very worried about Zemir White. From a team level standpoint.
It makes sense. I mean, just from a team, which team's gonna score more? You lean on Moss and he's getting be on the field a time. They're like, he's going to be there on passing downs a lot. Chase Brown had his little sprinkle moment.
But the dynasty as of Moss, like Zamir, Damir is young. Like you know in Dynasty, you usually want to bet on the younger running back. It's that those two in particular this year are I'm very excited to see how that plays out.
All right, Mike, So you have another backfield that Bets and I were literally just talking about before we recorded. What do we do with JK. Dobbins. We found out his guaranteed money by the way.
Oh it's very low, right, it's fifty thousand dollars.
Yeah.
Yeah, For context, can I just read you some names that signed higher guaranteed money.
Recently, undrafted free agents are getting more than that. J.
Dallas recently, Cordell Patterson. I mean that's not a surprise because he's the goat Amir Abdullah, Yeah, Boston Scott. So like they basically paid for his travel expenses to move to La oh man. We I mean just in all seriousness, like we've never really seen a running back as talented as he is when he's healthy. Get that type of just pocket change for the NFL, right, Like that's crazy. So I don't even know if he makes the team.
Yeah, And so the answer it's the Chargers running backs because this is nothing should work, Absolutely nothing should work. If you're just looking at a profile of of Gus Edwards, who what what year is he in? Six or seven? And I mean, yeah, he's he's had small, small showings of success, I mean the five over five of Carrey stuff, but he's very old. He has never like really been the guy for a team. And then it's JK. Dobbins is the first backup who is coming off an achilles tear, which I'm gonna bet against that every single time year one return for a running back. And then it's a third round draft pick or sorry, third day. If it was a third round draft pick, that'd be a lot more exciting a third day draft pick in Kamandi Vidal Sassoon And it's like none of these things should work, none of them, and yet it's gonna be something should work for the for the hard dog team here.
Yeah, I think that right now, if you guess this correctly, you're gonna get ten touchdowns. But it's really trying to figure out can the Gus bus last? I mean that's where I would have it.
I think, are you going Gus or are you going? Uh? Vidal?
I can't think of him other than Vandala soon.
This is Jason's fault.
Jason's good at what he does. Yeah, I think I think the problem with Day three running backs is it's just a bad bet. And it's a bad bet when they get steamed up over the summer. And we've already seen that before any training camp stuff, right, like if you're playing best ball, Sasoon's gone up like fifty or sixty picks in the last two months based on.
Our recency bias is Isaiah Pacheco.
That's the only one though, that like if we take the rest of the subset where like, uh, none of those guys work, we take one guy, we then put her on everyone else. So I'm I'm on Edwards being the lead guy.
I think so too. I think just look at the money, right, Like he got a two year deal, he got low end starter money. We talked about the Dobbins contract, We talked about the Vidal selection on day three. Like there's not a lot of financial investment here period. But if there is one, it's Gus Edwards and obviously has a ton of familiarity with Greg Roman. So it's gross, but I think he's probably the guy you want. The issue is he's missing all the off season to this point dealing with the undisclosed injuries, Like I'm keeping my you know, ears open for that in training camp and seeing what that is because that could change things too here. So there's this is crazy man, like this backfield with how much they want to run with this group, Like you said, it just doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense. And this year are like redraft. I mean, how what are the zero rbs doing right now? Like seeing seeing just the insane value that is being presented like just Zameir, Zach Moss, Gus Edwards. I mean, if one of those guys hits, they're all going so late that I don't blame people for loading up on wide receivers.
Yeah, you could win with, you know, and we talked about Jalen Warren, other guys that either you got in Dynasty as an undrafted free agent or whoever, and you kind of load up and realize later like, Okay, well I can make this work with a couple of later guys than I took, and so in redraft in Dynasty, I mean, if you have four or five wide receivers that you can just jump on board, like, you can make it work. I wanted to bring up the Saints because sure, one, I've never really liked the Saints. I like Chris o Lave, but man, the Saints division rival for the Falcon in last year, they had it made I think my famous words to bets were, oh, man, take it to the bank. The Saints over halfway through the year, it's gonna happen. They had an easy, easiest schedule, and then of course they go three and six and one score games and they lose like a ton down the stretch of just winnable games. I mean, they had a chance to go to the playoffs in the very final week, like it was percentage chance, but they just imploded it. And so it's a different scheme this year, Derek Carr was so bad inside the red zone and really bad with three wide receivers. Because at the end of the year, it's like they weren't running out a ton of stuff. A lobby was kind of banged up a lot of the year, and then you look at, like what else they were trying to do. It's just at Perry didn't wasn't doing a ton. However, they did change to start using more twelve and thirteen personnel. More you tighten looks. And then I hate saying it, but Taysum was more and more involved and really good down the stretch inside the twenty. And so you have a new system with Clint Kubiak, who's bringing over San Francisco approach, which is heavy tight ends, you bring in the fullback sometimes. So I'm trying to figure out what this team, how does the running back room shake out? I think we presume Kamar's the guy, but he's been super inefficient. And then I hear Nick Underhill, who's the most plugged in beat writer that we all love for the Saints. He's talking of Jamal Williams as the back I'm like, wait, wait a, no, I hadn't heard that, I know, I was like, he must be joking, right, it's Kendrey Miller because in Dynasty, we know that we all love Kendrey Miller as a sneaky, sneaky play.
So Jamal Williams was was.
Doodoo the worst, like literally the worst last year.
I thought you were going to bring up the Taysom Hill, like he's been in running back the room with the running backs, and it's like, dude, yeah, I can space if Taysom Hill's going goal line good a.
Little on some of the Underhill stuff. I listened to the show that he was talking about that on and it was like like he kind of thinks that they would have loved for Miller to like show show it by now and like take a step forward and kind of like this offseason, he's saying that the feeling is that he might have taken a step back, which is really tough when it's the off season. It's like you're in your shorts, like you should be looking great. And so I think right now the word he us is just that Williams has the trust of the coaching staff and Miller still needs to kind of earn that, not saying it can't happen in camp and preseason, which obviously it can. But like, I think Miller on Tape was great in college. We all loved him. He flashed in the preseason last year, small small sample, flashed in Week eighteen last year, and like, man, Jamal Williams was.
So so bad.
So like part of me is like, I don't know, man, this seems a little sketchy. But also if he doesn't do his job, and Jamal's just kind of getting what's blocked for him and get in past pro like in Happy Doing Happy doing it with the vibes, he might be on the field more than we like.
It's gross, guys, Like it's one of those situations where you look at this offense go, oh Sweety're gonna innovative. They're gonna figure it out. I like this system, baby Coobs is gonna do it. And then I started thinking, are they even gonna run enough eleven personnel? For a while it was like, is it at Perry, is it Cedric Wilson, is it Rookie bubb Means which is just always fun to say his name. And at the end of the day, they might just be running a lot more tight ends. They gotta get Juwan Johnson healthy. It is a gross team because we've mentioned they were the least creative team when it comes to pre snet motion in the entire NFL, and now you're going to a scheme that's maybe the most creative outside of like Mike McDaniel. So there's a lot of variables here. And then at the core of this, I have to ask this question, is Derek Cargan even like make any of this work? Like does it even matter at all? If he's just stinks? I mean he gaverage? Come on, buddy, you can.
I think I think he is a league gaverage Like thirty eight hundred almost thirty nine hundred passing yards, twenty five touchdowns, Like you give me that yardage, you bump those touchdown.
Up to the high league and grimaces.
Yeah, yeah, I mean he needs to leave our boy Crystal Lovey alone. Yeah. I think it's your fault. Derk Car, everything's your fault.
I think Carr is the absolute Like if you could pick the starting quarterbacks in the league to be like you get no prest motion, figure it out, like car would be on your short list of like that dude is not gonna make this work. Mahomes Alan, those guys will make it work. So like, in theory, this is obviously very good for his efficiency. Like keep the defense, you know, on their heels, Like, get guys moving before the snap, please get Rashichahi moving before the snap, and just let this dude burst up field. Like that stuff will all I think help the offense. But we know what Derek Carr is at this point, right, so like I'm not expecting a huge jump, but I think he'll be more efficient than he was a year ago when literally every snap was like you know what, Whereasavin Kamoraw two years down the field works for me. Here you go, Alvin, be.
On the lookout for that article bets going through all thirty two teams, their biggest training can't be out battles, so that you can basically be ready for August and be ready for everything coming out. So let's take a quick break and we'll be right back, all right, before we talk about these wide receiver tiers. I went back because I'm a sick, sick person and I love our showdocs. Guys. I mean, there's so much information that I can pull from from twenty sixteen seventeen. I mean, we got a lot of stuff. But I went back to last year in this exact episode, and after we had gone through the main wide receivers, we had a question where we talked about which wide receiver past wide receiver fifty do you want to bring up to that?
I don't know.
Maybe could take a jump, And Bets, I need to give you some props because you brought up Nico Collins. Maybe you just did it like I don't know who to put down, but last year he was wide receiver sixty four in Dynasty rankings, and I bring his name up because a lot of these wide receivers we're going to talk about today. You might be like, I can't really see it. This is just where they are. But there is room for growth of so many play we talked about last week. Pooka Nakua wasn't in my top two tiers in my rankings last year. Mike, I don't know if you had him there beginning there, but no, I did not. I didn't even rank I mean we didn't even have him ranked like no one did. So there is room for growth. But BET's like, how does it feel you totally forgot you said that?
Right?
No, I remember that vividly because you all laughed. You all laughed at me, Kyle, and it was awesome. I sent not in every league, but in a couple leagues. I got him for like a late second last year of like what the heck? You know, he had played with Davis Mills, Kyle Allen, Tyro Taylor and we were all Stroud fans, and I was like, what if Stroud's just good, I'll throw a late second and hope for the best. So that worked out. That's one of those things that happens in dynasty like once every like four years, where you make a trade that's sweet, but it does feel quite nice.
I have a rebuilding team that I had him on the roster and he was probably like my wide receiver five or six. And then fast forward a year later, I had the pick, so I got Marvin a doonsday and then I've had Collins Pitty City and I'm like, restock my wide receiver room. Where a year later I'm like, wow, I have a bunch of studs that I didn't even realize. And that's like one of the beauties of year to year things can change. So I want to talk about these tiers and talk about where we rank these.
Players Dynasty rankings.
So we're talking about the guys that I'm calling Tier five, and like I said, there'll be an article out on all of this if you want to get all of our rankings. They're in the Dynasty pass. But I'm calling it at the crossroads because when you put players in tiers, they can't all be at the same exact age, same exact spot. But a lot of these guys are young. And then Deebo Samuel's in here too because that's why I've ranked. But I'll list some of the guys Zay Flowers, Lad McConkie, Jordan Addison, Rashid Rice, Brian Thomas, Junior, Jaysen, Deebo, George Pickens, and Jaden Reid. These guys are at different points of their career. But there's a lot of guys that are super young that we think can elevate themselves or at least, like hey, they could be a top fifteen wide receiver. We just don't have them ranked there right now. I wanted to bring up Jordan Adison first because I have him in a league and I you know, if you had have told me, hey, by the way, Jordan Addison's gonna have ten touchdowns as a rookie, you'd be like, sweet, he I mean, he killed it. This is what I wanted. He delivered on the value he finishes wide receiver twenty one, and yet it feels like a year later he's dropped in value. I don't know if there's like the stench. And I know Kirk Cousins is the big reason why he's gone, but like we're almost penalizing him because Jefferson was off the field and we're penalizing because it's a you know, a new quarterback. But this team throws, like this team is going to continue to throw the ball. Last year second in neutral pass rate, first in passing when they were leading by seven points, second and second half pass rate, first in pass right inside the twenty. They throw a ton and they're gonna continue to throw even if they have McCarthy in there eventually. So what is y'all's feeling on Addison after year one? And is this appropriate or is it like, Okay, well that's all we're ever gonna see. That was his best season ever.
Go ahead, and I think there's room for improvement. Obviously, anytime a wide receiver flashes that much as a rookie, you have to open your eyes and say, like, that's what we wanted to see, and he probably will take a step forward in year two. The issue for me is, you know, when you look at the touchdown total, that's tough, right, Like a lot of that production is probably going to come down this year, specifically when you think about either Sam Darnold and or a rookie quarterback. I mean, we've talked about it on the main show. You guys bring it up all the time. It's just rookie quarterback touchdown rates just historically have not been a winning bet in fantasy. So I see a guy who overperformed in the touchdown department relative to his usage. Add in a potential rookie quarterback, and I just see a player that I think it will all kind of balance out a little bit this year where I don't really see Addison being able to take a step forward in dynas value because of those factors. And oh, by the way, Justin Jefferson still here, massive contract, you know, and a lot of his production last year kame with Justin Jefferson off the field. So I feel kind of lukewarm on Addison, which I think is how a lot of people feel a fine like wide receiver three type for dynasty on my team, wide receiver two that I want to have, but I'm not like going out of my way to trade for him this offseason.
I think I would say, you know, part of the how do you phrase it, They're just like the disappointment of when Jefferson was off the field, it just it wasn't like a huge or at least I didn't feel like a huge optic in actual production. You know, the target share it certainly went up, and that makes complete sense, but like his yards per route run, it was the exact same as when Jefferson was on the field. That's not what you're hoping for for a first rounder. You want someone who when an opportunity presents itself, this guy just takes over the way like justin Jefferson did. So I think that's what's baked in. And then I would say, just what Betts said just said about Stroud. If we like Stroud like a lot in last year's offseason, and I don't think we all feel the same about JJ McCarthy, but I think McCarthy's I think he is good. I think that he will be a good quarterback in the NFL. And if this is, if they really keep the same pass heavy, pass heavy approach and JJ McCarthy ends up being good, then this would be the floor for Jordan Addison.
Yeah, that's been the Kemn O'Connell approach. Is They've been bottom five in RUSS attempts each of his first two years, so I think they're going to continue to press on the gas. I mean last year, if it was Mullins, Jaren Hall, Josh Dobbs, whoever, he actually was targeted more more frequently when Cousins was off the field. So it's like, I don't think the quarterback is really the issue me for Addison, it's more of what is his ceiling? Knowing that Jefferson's here, So my question to kind of land the plane here is why can't he be This is my number eighty five to ninety percent of DeVonta Smith, same like kind of wiery player who is the wide receiver two on an offense that could be good Like that's kind of what I'm hoping he is, and it still caps him. But I mean it's a good player, Like you said, a wide receiver three for your squad who's really young, and you saw him like he wasn't just getting little, you know, dings and dunks, like he was getting downfield intermediate targets that really matter. So that's what are your thoughts on that comparison.
I think that's a good interesting comparison because I think just narratively speaking to me, it would make sense that if it look this all hinges on JJ McCarthy, of course, that you have someone who's actually competent, but like there's if that's what happens, then to me, there's no reason why Jordan Addison can't surpass DeVonta Smith in terms of fantasy value. Where Smith is he will be the number two. He is a handsomely paid number two, but he's the number two guy on a team that is a low passing volume and unless something drastically changes here for you know, Jalen Hurts like Jalen Hurts isn't is. He is who he is, and it's gonna be a heavy rush system for the Philadelphia Eagles, where if Minnesota keeps everything and then McCarthy actually ends up good on a high volume passing offense, you can actually sustain to high level fantasy wide receivers, So I don't I'm talking myself into Jordan Adison a little bit more than I had been. I don't know if I would be aggressive out and going to get him because thinking just in terms of the dynasty market, like play out this year of it will be probably a good chunk of it's gonna be Sam Darnold and cause I think that's the good NFL approach for the Vikings. Their bye week is I think week six, week six or seven, if I'm remembering it correctly off the top of my head, where it's like, okay, that's usually a pretty good transition point for get the rookie, put them in, and then at that point you're not going to feel like you had enough of the season to really evaluate. Is jj McCarthy good? Meaning that to me, unless there's catastrophic failure by McCarthy Jordan Adison, his value will remain kind of flat and then maybe you can reassess and take a bet next year. Yeah.
I like that call quite a bit because I think we all kind of share, like some team level concerns about just production and points this year from the team and Mike hat tip, it is week six that they are on by, So that's kind of the perfect timeline for that. I will just say I don't think Kevin O'Connell cares like Nick Mullens was chucking it on the stretch last year and you know they bringing Aaron Jones, right he's I mean, he was still awesome down the stretch, especially in the playoffs as a runner. But when you think about Aaron Jones, whereas he's so so good, it's as a pass catcher, right, Ty Chandler, same thing, Like he's not really a bruiser. He's kind of a finesse back in space who can catch the ball. I think that's what Kevin O'Connell wants to do, and the personnel says that that's the case. So yeah, I think we could see more volume than maybe we think initially, but it might take some time for JJ to kind of develop over the course of the season.
All right, So we got some other wide receivers in this tier that I think we're at a crossroads. Like I've talked a lot of JSN and I've kind of dug a little deeper, but it's like, hey, I want to see something year two. We've talked about George Pickens a ton, I mean, and he might be one of our most talked about players on all of our Footballers podcasts. Mike, you ever shee Rice on here? Yeah, for many reasons of like why he's at the crossroads, but what is your thoughts on him?
It's just the the crossroad. So this is a one of the worst things about fantasy football is and just in the NFL, it's off the field stuff that sucks. Look, there's humans and humans make mistakes and Rahi Rice clearly made a massive mistake that he will, like there will be a penalty for him. We still don't know what it is. And like trying to factor in that that risk, like off the field risk of for us as we sit at home in our parents' basements, trying to judge the character of these guys, Like it's that's a it's an impossible game, but like but we have to accept, Like think about think about where we had the excitement for Rashid Rice before any of that of the stuff in Dallas happened, Like that dude was on a rocket ship to being one of people's favorite Dynasty wide receivers, a player who actually came through for Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs and look, it's like their number one wide receiver moving forward. Even though he has limitations as a player, like he's really he's more of a yards after contact. Maybe he could turn into like a Deebo Samuel type because he's just his route tree. It's it's not refined as it should be for an NFL, a number one NFL wide receiver. But yet after the bye week he was like, there was a game of thirteen percent. I'm going to remove that. So week twelve through seventeen twenty seven percent of the targets and then in the in the playoff run eight targets, nine, four, twelve, like he was really involved. And it's are taking the human part out because like, if you don't want these though, if you don't want players who are doing that crap on your team, I totally get it. But just production wise, Let's say he gets a six or eight game suspension, but that's it and then the rest of his career, Rashid Rice is like he turns it around, he looks at his mistake, he goes, I'm not going to do that crap again, and then he's just he's the player who he was before that and then starts getting better and he actually is the number one wide receiver for Patrick Mahomes. Like, I think that is those outcomes aren't being looked at as much as they used to, you know, cause the first friend draft pick of Xavier Wary, that's really exciting. He's a burner. What if it's just Rice and Rice pays his penalty and you could get a huge, massive discount on him right now and he's at the crossroads and he figures it out, That's what I'm saying. I don't know that he will, but I'm just throwing it out like that. We need to think of that as an option.
Yes, And I'm looking at this tier and when you have everybody ranked for twenty twenty four, it feels all clean and neat because, like Mike's mentioned, we're not mentioning all the variables of where things could change. But like, I don't think he'll be here next year. It's either up or down. But I don't think it's just gonna stay status quote for him. So a year from now, if he remains a wide receiver one, like I think he tears up in a group where you're like, Okay, you've established yourself two years with Patrick Mahomes as you're the guy and Kelsey's getting older. Where you know, with Worthy, there is a fear that he becomes a gadget player for a team that hasn't excelled in downfield stuff. Like Patrick Mahomes had one touchdown of twenty plus ear yards last year, So if you don't get that, it might be different.
But there's fair concern that Rashid Rice will only be a gadget player too. I think, yeah, yeah, that's a fair thing to say. But and A it's not just it's it's not exactly the same. But if you've played if you've played dynasty fantasy football for whatever five years, I can't remember exactly when it was. Tyreek Hill had an offseason where he had some really bad off the field stuff and the fantasy football community was because I think the consensus just NFL fans is like he will never play football again. He's done. It is absolute toast. Like this guy was in the double digit rounds of startup drafts. I mean from a where he was, you know, whis a top fifteen guy, absolutely plummets. People are sending out fire sale trade offers. You're rejecting it. Because you're you're sending me a player who's never going to play another snap in the NFL again, And now Tyreek Shill is the number one guy or number two guy going in the next year I leave for redraft speaking just so, I'm not saying Rice is on that career path, but just there these are factors of what the value of a player is. And it's emotionally tough.
Yeah, And that's a good point to bring that up, just because it does invite a buying opportunity, Like if you want to take on that risk, now is the time, right, Like, I don't know what would a fair offer be at this point with the off the field concerns and all that stuff, like an early second maybe a late fight that might get it done, and man, it may get it pick usually doesn't work out anyway. And we already know Rashie Rice is good, right, Like the pro route numbers were off the charts. That's Pat Mahomes Like, I'm kind of talking myself into to make it the trade offers for Rashie Rice with that, oh, at the crossroads of the career. The other thing for me that I think about with the offense and kind of how it sets up just from a taking off the field stuff, you know, off off the conversation for a minute. It's like you have Exavier Worthy, you have Hollywood Brown in theory, those guys can really open up the offense and underneath. Last year we saw Kelsey eat and Rashie Rice eat, and I think about Kelsey's rolling the offense and I've already talked about it, like he's probably going to play fewer snaps during the regular season and we want to keep him safe for the playoffs and healthy. And it's like the less that Kelsey plays, the more opportunity for Rashi Rice to just be a target hog, which he was at times last year underneath in an intermediate area of the field where he is so good. It just matches up perfectly with the personnel and how it fits. And I guess I'm in on Rashi Rice is to take coming here.
Oh no, well, could go wrong. I'm not trying to talk everyone into it. I just want people like it's a good it's a good just exercise. Don't just be like, hey, Xavier Worthy first round pick, he's now their number one wide receiver. Yeah, a reminder that they have missed on a lot of players besides, I mean Rice is like the biggest success as of late.
I think that that's a good theme for this episode so far, is looking at players that we had an opinion or at least you know, we're on the fence and at least be able to give the other side. Like I wanted to look at Jordan Adison because the feeling I got was like do I really want this player? And going a little deeper, like here's how it could work. This next tier I'm calling the old guard because all of these dudes last year, if you would have traded them away, you would have gotten a lot more, and then they've sunk in dynasty value just from being old. So a lot of guys that are old in this tier right now. I have them wide receivers thirty four through forty six, So Davante Adams, Mike Evans, Stefan Diggs, Mark Cooper, Cooper Cup, Christian Kirk, Terry McLaurin, Keenan Allen Pour one Out, Calvin Ridley, Deontay Johnson. And then in the middle of that group is a bunch of rookies that were like I don't really know where to stick them, Like what is Xabrie La get Ricky Pearsall, who is he? How did he even get drafted in the first round? And then add an I Mitchell. So it's like all of these guys, the old guys, and then we don't know what to do with these wide receivers. So the old guys is what I want to focus on, because is there still something left in the tank that you can trade for? And so the player that I dug deep on Istefon Diggs, because my sentiment has been he's done, he's out, they moved on, and so I'm going to give the case or at least the thought of how could it work in Houston because what's been y'all's opinion so far of him moving there and the off season.
I think there's the overall of for our shield for the fantasy footballers has been far more negative than the than like his ADP and the consensus, so it's been bad.
Yeah, I mostly feel the same, just kind of in general. I think, I mean, Diggs is still a very very good target earner in my opinion, but it's just not the same player he was, So like, how does he mesh with the offense and does he line up in the slot mostly at this stage of his career, and do they run through wide receiver sets a ton. You'd think to get these guys on the field altogether because they're your best players. Like, it all makes sense to me, But I just think so highly of Nico and Tank, like I think those guys are both legit superstars that it's tough to see how it works for all three guys. In my opinion.
It's also hard to see players that Like I remember when Diggs was a rookie and fifth round pick coming out of Maryland, was like, this is a fun player, and in Dynasty he felt like you got somebody just off the waiver wire late in your draft. And then over time he just sends in this alpha You're like, that is a fun Dynasty player. Now you're at the part of his career, it's like, oh, that was nice. He's done, and you're looking at all these other younger, sexier options. So I think you mentioned it bets, like is he the slot wide receiver. That's kind of the question that I have because Tank, you would think he is smaller dude, but most of his routes were outside. He only saw one target behind the line of scrimmage. So at the end of the day, I think it's Nico outside. I think and Diggs can be interchangeable. But also, this team runs a ton a ton of stupid twenty one personnel where they get full back on the field. Andrew Beck like, it's kind of annoying. If you're playing fantasy and you really watch it, you're like, why is this team trying to do Kyle Yuschek over and over and over again and have a ton of snaps.
Where the wide receiver?
Apparently I don't because it blows my mind. But also it works in the NFL. So Diggs has been way better when it's just two wide receivers on the field because there's less competition. So this will be his biggest test. So if he is the slot wide receiver and this team just says, all right, we're gonna throw out some of that twenty one stuff and just go for it, that's fine. This is year nine for him, thirty years old. But he did earn the same targets down the stretch, they just weren't as valuable targets. Like, he's not he's not a deep threat anymore. He's not what he used to be. He can get the intermediate area where he was actually tied for the league lead and receiving touchdowns in the eleven to nineteen areas. So he's still viable. He's not toast, and I think the system can work. But right now, like you don't want to trade for Stefan Diggs, and if you have him, it's like, do I want to get a second for Diggs? No, like I want to see if I still have somebody who can be top fifteen or whatever. So I'm still holding on as a Diggs Dynasty manager, hoping that he's a lot.
Sigh confidence, just so confident. Kyle, I love it. Do you still have him on your team? And Dinah Junior?
Yeah?
I got that. Josh Allen Digs Stack year.
Love it.
Oh man.
I did remember us talking about Adams and Digs and Cup last year and saying, like, okay, they still time. I mean Cooper Cup in redraft, what was a top five pick, like he was going as like a wide receiver two.
Or three early, but before the ankle injury, the training camp injury.
We didn't know Pooka even existed. So there was a point with these guys in Dynasty where you could have gotten a haul and a year later it's like you're not getting that for Adams, You're not getting that for cup or Digs. So that's kind of my biggest lesson in this tier is you'd rather be a year early. I think with Mike Evans, we feel good about him getting the bag and securing a couple more years. But Calvin Ridley, speaking of bags, he's twenty nine. He feels like he should still be twenty five or twenty six. So Betts talked to me about if that could even work and with the Titans and is he even their best wide receiver.
I'm not sure, man, I don't know. I mean, if you look at the numbers from last year, basically everything is going to tell you that DeAndre Hopkins, who you know was thirty two years old, so he's older, is just producing at a higher level on a per rout basis than Calvin Ridley. And you looked a lot about what levis at the top of the show and watching some of his tape. It's a wild ride, and really the numbers like support it was truly awful. Like among forty eight quarterbacks with the one hundred plus dropbacks last year, thirty first, and EPA thirtieth, and past rating forty second and catchable target rate. So like we're asking a lot for Calvin Ridley to, you know, change teams at the stage of his career, go compete with Jonder Hopkins for targets and have a quarterback take a huge step forward who was really really not good last year. So I get the contract is great. You know, it's nice to have that financial security on your roster. I think when we look back in the offseason after this year and we're talking about the Titans and we're talking about that contract that gave to Calvin Ridley, I really see it as a situation where we're like, dude, what was that deal? And now we're talking about a player who's declining entering his age thirty season. He turns thirty in December, and you know, he had that one year with the Falcons where he was unbelievable. I'll give him that, right, two point four to four yards through out run off the charts. But in his career, I mean he's only played five seasons and one of them was shortened, so it's like four and a half, but one point five seven yards through round a year ago it's fine one point four to three of the year before, it's fine one point six, nine point seven to seven. In his other seasons, he's had one really good year, and I just think the name value carries so much that I'm kind of out at this point. I see his value declining. I'm not really in redraft leagues, I'm not really in in dynasty. I just don't see it as a perfect fit. And I think it's a player that, like I said, we're hanging on to the name value a little bit here when truthfully hasn't been that good on a per oup basis.
You have to do this weird dance where you're blending Calvin Ridley from the Jaguars. So we're not you know, like you said with the Falcons, it was cool, it was fun, great rookie year, great couple of years there. But you're blending here from the Jaguars. You're taking Will Levis who played in an offense that was Derrick Henry right, like it was just not fit for him. And then you're bringing it all together with Brian Callahan who brings the Cincinnati offense, so you're really taking three offenses and asking can it work and what you're gonna see is a ton of shotgun, which is great. I think Levis is better in that, and just let him sling it, just go for it. And you saw Hopkins come up with a ton of awesome highlight reel catches. The problem is Will Levison shotgun last year, guys, I hate to tell you this. It wasn't great, Like that's the system we're gonna get. But he was twenty eighth out of thirty four quarterbacks and fancy points per drop back and then here's the worst. He was dead last than off target rate. So it's like a lot of targets didn't really matter. So I worry about Ridley. I think he'll be fine in terms of staying in this tier at least one more year. But I think it's really hard. I mean last year, what he had five games. We can look at his game logs, but I think it was like five good games and the rest killed your team, especially because week one was a tease.
Yep, a huge We went right from training camp. This guy looks incredible in camp. We've never seen anybody around drills this this way, which she was running them next to a Jones, So it's not shocking that he looked.
Why Isay Jones got to catch?
So sorry, says dude, hat tip to say, right, his career was off the rails. He came back, he's been productive, so hat tips today. But and then he had raiders right in training camp he was incredible, and then the truth kind of came out of course down the stretch. So yeah, I don't know, man, I just I think his value is going to sink. Like we're talking about a player next year that we're The conversation is, well, he's thirty, who's the quarterback? He's going to be thirty one in December. I just think it's a good time to get out.
All right, let's take one more break and we'll get to some more tears. We are moving on. I'm calling it Tier seven Young and hung gray because there's a bunch of young dudes here that were drafted a little bit later. A couple of names in here we were like, okay, still young, don't know what to do with Jameson Williams, Christian Watson and how but Jermaine Burton, Roman Wilson, Troy Franklin, who I think just slowly but surely has just been dying in best ball drafts, just like off a cliff uh. And then Jolin Polk is an interesting name to put in this list too. I've heard both.
No, no, we don't, we don't. Look, we don't. Just just move on from those things.
What is this Jo Polk or Jalen Polk?
I've never heard it. John, Like there's there's a controversy.
Here, I'm going to create one. Now, did you just take this?
I want to get it right. I want to get it right.
Here's so many things I don't know what's right anymore. I'm bound to mess up, mess it up. But let's go with Jollin right now.
I think, okay, drop your bit, Kyle, what how do I don't know? All right?
J j'all rule Polk?
No you can't. That name is taken. That was a coach, all.
Right, So young dudes in here. And then we talked James Williams a lot. So I don't know if we need to do that. I think we've had like two or three episodes where we cover jameson Williams.
Well, I can give you just a quick go for it. So what I've done with the running backs, I'm also starting to do that now with the wide receivers. And so since twenty fourteen, we have fifty three in the sample size who have hit a top twenty four season. The amount of the fifty three that their first time doing it was in year three. That's what we're in for Jamison Williams right now. Is that correct year three? It's twelve of the fifty three, and four of those would have been first round picks. Which so I mean like you had Jerry, Judy Brandon, I Yuk, Hollywood Brown, and Nelson Agalore. The goat was snuck and all three of them, by the way, they well, I Yuk was okay, but the other one is just they barely snuck in. So just saying historically it's it's not looking good.
Yeah, famous last words, I'm betting against it.
We talked about it a lot against him, or you're betting against the history and you're going to be in on Jamison.
I'm betting against Williams.
Okay, Yeah, I think he is, and we talked about him a ton on the show. I just I think he is perfect for this offense. Fills a need, is going to stretch the field, It's going to have some splash plays.
It's a fifth target on this offense.
But is probably the at best fourth right, Like, if Gibbs takes a step forward as a pass catcher, I'm if the port is healthy. I just don't see how it works. So I'm out.
It's a good thing that Jared Goff throws it deep a ton, you know, the lowest percentage in the league. So it's like the targets we want, he's not throwing them. So then it's like, Okay, I wanted to get open, it gets zone and intermediate, It's like, doesn't it just doesn't go there. The ball hasn't gone there, and that's where they were successful last year. Could it be different, Yes, they could change, they can morph, But I think he's going to be one of those players you're like, Okay, he kind of touchdown this week, Okay, two weeks from now, he ruined my team. And he's still holding value though, Like I think people view him higher than where we have him ranked right now. We haven't met wide receiver fifty in Dynasty. We can check where the pulse is, but I feel like it's a little higher.
I mean, it's it's wild the people holding on to Jamison's because that's what you're doing At this point, you're holding onto your evaluation of him before he was an NFL player, And again he has the traits like it can work. But that's the Jamison Williams Truthers. It's it's tough right now, it's tough in the streets.
I'll compare him to a player that I'd rather have in Dynasty same year in the league, Christian Watson.
I'd rather have Watson.
I'd rather have Watson at least take the chance, because one I think the offense can actually use him. He was the one if you look at just when he was on the field, Yeah, from a target share. Now, I don't have a medical degree, but I do have a list of every single injury that he's ever had, going back a really long way. So bets you tell me, I'm not going to read the list, but like, is he finally healthy? I need to know, like personally.
So he's interesting, right, and my comp for him and just how he's viewed in fantasy football world's not necessarily the same injuries, well to some degree it is, but not necessarily the same complete injury history. But just most recently, do you guys remember the two or three years where we got burned over and over and over again by will Fuller, and then it got to a point where everyone was like, oh, yeah, I'm out. Oh I'm not doing this no matter what the price is, i am just out. And it's like, well, hold on, he's going in the eighth round or the ninth round. The risk is already baked in. A Deshaun Watson was good at that point. Why why don't we just dip our toes back in and see what happens. And to me, that feels like the exact same thing with Christian Watson where he's produced, right, he's produced on an NFL field. Yes, he's struggled with injury. But this is one of my things I'm looking at in my article is like this guy in redraft league is going in the ninth round currently over on sleeper, and it's like man in a redraft league, like there's no downside, like just just jump in and if it doesn't work, like you know, you move on. So it's a different conversation for Dynasty, But I do think I've come around to the idea of like, I think the risk is baked in not only in redraft ADP but dynasty trade markets. Everyone was so hype for Watson last year and now everyone's like, I don't know, man on Tavian Wicks is the hotness like Davian Wicks or Jayden Reid who like.
The hotness because he's the lowest value y.
Yeah for sure. But and I think just to take a step back from like the injury standpoint too, Like if the Packers are a little bit concerned about his injury profile and his history, they do have everything in place to make it work. Like maybe he's not a ninety percent snap guy, right, Like they can rote guys, they can get other guys in and make it all work. But I just think it's out of point now where I'm willing to buy back in because I think the risk is already baked in enough to his ADP.
Yeah, through two years, his targets per out run is twenty two percent, so it's very very good. Yards per out run is one point nine to one, so he's hitting above the thresholds I care about. Through two years now, a lot of the targets have been deep downfield stuff. Twelve touchdowns on just sixty nine receptions. It's really hard to look at other players and use that type of rate, But I think that's the kind of player we're getting, right, It's this big play guy. I did look up his catchable deep targets last year. It was eighth worse, so that the deep targets he got only forty seven percent of them were catchable. Romeo Dobbs, same offense, same everything, seventy five percent of them were catchable. That was the fourth best. So that's some weird variance. I think year to know that changes. And then my biggest question is two wide sets? Is he on the field there? Because Jaden Reid I looked this up. He ran two routes last year with two wide receivers on the field too.
That's wild, Yeah, that is wild.
And yet Jane Reed was targeted and down the stretch was like their debo, right, their debo light of just all over the field. So I can't argue against Jane Reed not being when he's on the field. He's awesome on a per route basis. But Christian Watson is the deep tar guy. I just think you can make a case for Watson, for Reed, for Dobbs, for Wicks and even the butterman Bo Melton, like you could really make a case for all of these dudes, But I think I just like Watson a lot. I think he's too cheap, and would you rather have Watson.
Or a second Watson?
Watson?
Okay, I think that's the price what you can get. Like, nobody's gonna ask you for a first for Christian Watson right now, so I think you can kind of make that trade and ask yourself, like the guys that are in this tier that I mentioned were guys you've took in your second round of your rookie draft, Roman Wilson, would you rather have Roman Wilson or Christian Watson Watson E Watson, Yeah, okay, Troy Franklin, I think we'd all say Christian Watson over him.
Yes, yeah.
What about Jermaine Burton, I think.
Watson, oh man, that one is.
A year from now. We could have a different conversation before.
Oh yeah, that and that's that's everything to me on Jermaine Burton is next year. Like just going through a scenario of this year. Many scenarios we live in the multiverse, but in the scenario where Joe Burrow is back and Joe Burrow puts up the numbers that he had put up the two years where he had the you know, huge seasons, he puts those up and t Higgins is gone, Like it doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter what Jermaine Burton had done to that point because his value will just skyrocket. So that's why I'm it's I'm hesitant of. And look, there's a there to me. Honestly, there still is that small percentage chance that the Bengals all sing Kumbaya together and they figure it out and they figured out how to get te Higgins' money. Like, I'm not completely ruling that out, even though that seems like the high probability of things. The high highest probability taking place is Higgins leaves and then Burton's value skyrockets. So again that's a that's a huge word salad of saying Burton versus Christian Watson, I think is an extremely difficult decision because if just play it out, Okay, let's play it out that way. T Higgins is gone, Joe Burrow was super good this year. Next year, how do you envision you you feel like you're gonna have Burton ranked higher than Christian Watson, because I think I would.
I think you're still you still might be looking at potential for him, like where you're still like baking him, like I think this is what he can become.
So you're a hater. I'm gonna go to bets on this question because he was team.
But the problem is is that you know deep targets and Joe Burrow isn't even their best quarterback like that.
Yeah, okay, God, Kyle got me.
Stop it, Mike. I don't know if you've heard, but Kyle's come around to Jermaine Burton as a best ball pick this year, which makes me very happy to hear.
He's he's funny board.
But I'm with you, like I I do think that there's a world where like that all happens and we're like Burton could be the two. But then you're gonna be sweating the NFL draft, like if they Losey Higgins and Burton is like fine but not great for sure. If he's just a situational deep threat and can't really earn his way on the field as like a legit starting NFL player, then you have a situation of like what is his role in the offense? You know, So that kind of creates it. So I have no idea where his value he's going to go. I think we all agree on that. With with Jermaine Burton, I was so in on him in Dynasty rookie season because his price was so cheap. But just talking about these two players, usually all side with the guy that's like showing it on the field and produced. So that's why Leen Watson. But I could see a world where Burton's value is much higher next year.
Yeah, it's that world. And you can envision a world for the Green Bay Packers where we're all I mean, we have debated every single wide receiver on their roster, like there's a world where it's just hey, all the green Bay Packers wide receivers are usable for fantasy football, but there is no true number one.
I'm gonna move to the final tier here of our top sixty wide receivers in Dynasty, and I'm calling it who knows in twenty twenty five because there's a bunch of dudes that I have no idea, but I want to list their name and I want to see if her on the same page because there's really only one name on here. I can see like move up a couple tiers and and I could be way wrong, but down here we have Hollywood Brown, Josh Downs, Johan Dotson, Courtland Sutton, DeAndre Hopkins, Gabe Davis, rest in peace, and Romeo Dobbs.
So he's filthy rich.
Now three years, I'm thirty mil for Gabe. Okay, see you watch yourself, Kyle.
He's gonna be a fun player like he like the thing about Gabe Davis, especially in Fantasy World, He's gonna be a thing like five years from now, you guys remember Gabe Davis and we're gonna have fun with it, Like he's a fun player.
Where is he going in basketball? Because I feel like the sentiment around Gabe Davis.
It's bad, it's it's it's pushways somewhere on there.
The the way we're playing this is that they just threw all that money in the garbage, Like the team has absolutely no idea what they're doing and they gave that because because they signed a rookie in the first round of the draft. It's and I'm not look, I'm not caping here for Gabe Davis, just pointing out that that's that usually seems like a discrepancy that we need to examine.
What's wild with the Calvin Eardley thing. No one expected him to leave, right, Like I think Jacksonville is like we're getting him back, like we'll sign him two or three year whatever. But like I think in heinstt they're like, we shouldn't Gabe all that money, like we could have used that for con And I truthfully think Gabe is going to be on the first team All Partier this year. Just win sprints left and right down the field.
Yeah. The problem with Davis and Brian Thomas is they just never earn targets. I know you're comparing college stuff, but like they don't earn targets the way that Christian Kirk and Evan Ingram do. So I just worry about how the offense is gonna function. Where you do have a lot of nine routes from Gabe Davis and he knows how to do it though. That's the best part. This dude knows how to run straight down the field and have a four touchdown game.
Though.
I mean, that's that's legendary stuff. Bets that changed your life with DFS.
That was a pretty pretty sweet moment in the fantas football world. For Gabe Davis. That was his his high and I don't think we'll ever get close to anything back to that. But hey, everyone has their day, Kyle.
All right, So the wide receivers are listed, Is there one in here? Because I have one that could jump a tier two after this year?
I mean, you're gonna talk John Dotson, are you?
He's the only one I can see? Oh no, if Yle, No, if I had to pick one, if that's the exercise, you have to pick one.
Oh no.
I mean if I had to pick one, and I don't really think this is how I feel, But if I was, like, you're forcing me to pick one of these guys, I do see a world where it works for Hollywood and he gets a bag of mine next year. I'm not on that side, but I see that it exists, right, Like it's like, oh, this guy's playing with Patrick Mahomes. He just played with Josh Obbs last year. No wonder his numbers were better. I see the simplest case for it. But you and I and you know, we talked a lot Kyle about his numbers against zone and how he's not really fitting today's NFL and that sort of thing. So I'm not on that side, but I see that path. So if I was going to pick one, he'd be the one for me.
Mike.
Oh man, if I have to pick one that's going to take it to your jump, come on, come on, it's probably it's probably Daubs. I'm just I'm just, I'm I'm infatuated. I'm infatuated with with the Packers wide receivers. Of again, I'm trying to lay out all the different cases, but like part of I think the allure of the Packers wide receivers is that other than Jayden Reied, they're all so cheap in terms of their value, like and there there is a world where one of them really takes off and becomes the true guy for Jordan Love. So if I got to pick anyone out of this one, like, I feel like we should at least talk about Josh Downs.
Like.
He's he feels like he was just completely left for no one. No one ever talks about Josh Downs.
Okay, So it's so funny. I don't know if you remember our rookie show last year, Jason.
Hated Oh yeah, he hated Josh Downs.
He hated Josh Downs to the point of, like, you know, just taking it way too far. I mean, it hurt me because he's George Boy, and I liked him for that reason. You and see guy and I was in on him. Now I've flipped where Jason I think has liked him more and all.
That's hilarious.
So anti downs this whole offseason. We've talked about him in Best Ball.
I will say for Josh Doawns look to me. You can look at you can go glass half full or half empty. You can look at what he did last year where he had like a month run where wide receiver eighteen twenty nine, three thirty five, Like that's a good run in a rookie year. But that was in the middle and it ended very poorly. So for you to put that on the field and then nothing changes in the positive for you as a player, actually goes really really bad at the end. And I know he was. He was banged up. You know we had that Week nine. Let's see what he hurt his knee. I don't know if that was the reason, but yeah, I mean, I mean I just wanted to talk. Yeah, I don't know that we've talked about it. I figured it out. I'm out.
I do think that knee injury was more serious than people let on. There was like reports about it of like he's managing it for like months, So I think at least in part you can explain that I'm back in. So I'm back in.
But his knee is really weak. It's really weak.
Back out.
Oh, come on, Kyle. I think he's a talented player, Like we saw flashes of it as a rookie and you're like, okay, your two player. That's generally what we look for. The tough part for me is like this team, as Jonathan Taylor finally now healthy and contract in the in the rearview mirror, Anthon Richds is gonna run a ton and Michael Pittman is the RPO guy. So it's like, where is their volume for both Adie Mitchell and him to actually succeed for fantasy assuming Pittman is healthy. So I kind of feel like he's like a fine PPR bench wide receiver to have that I'd be happy to have, but I don't really see him being a true breakout guy this year.
Yeah. I think the Colts offense, which is basically just the Eagles offense that's where Shane Steggen's from, It never really is funneled through the slot. And what if I told you, Mike, this is the whay you're right here. What if I told you he ran eight total routes last year with two wide receivers in the field downs? Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, that's just the question is like how much is gonna be on the field, how much is gonna get peppered? When it was Gardner a lot of times, So that's kind of my question. And then in this with Dotson, I don't know, but at least there's some varials with jayde Daniels and that's what I like. It's better than Sam Howell. I think we'd all agree that. Jane Daniels, I mean, that's that's a huge revelation, I know, for all of us, might be better than Sam Howell.
Maybe maybe you guys.
Don't even like my that's a great point. It's a really thought out, deep point. Had wide receiver.
It's really hard to hear you talk about Dotson and take things seriously.
Didn't you tell us he was a good trade for it?
All right? Next segment, take it or leave it? All right, let's just finish out with a couple of quick takes that won't be about Johan Dotson, but of all the players we talked about today, who are you most afraid of dropping in value and who will gain the most values? So a couple of quick hitters here, bets, just just go for it.
You didn't even see the show doc. You just said we're not gonna talk about Deshaun Dotson. But I was ready for you to come on and be like, this is the time to bouy value.
He's already left for dead.
Here's the thing with Yeah, Okay, last year was terrible, no one, you don't need us to tell you that. Like, obviously it was bad, but like zero point eight two yards thro out run. He earned a target on just over twelve percent of his routes. That is backup numbers in terms of how I performed. Now he will start for this team. I'm not saying that, but just like as a talent on the field last year, that's how bad it was. And then I took a step back and I was like, okay, as a rookie, like were we just fooled? Like did we actually get fooled as a rookie? Because most of his production was propped up by touchdowns just over five hundred yards seven touchdowns on like thirty five catches not sustainable, and then we saw a huge aggression last year. But like peel back to curtain one point three nine yards out run as a rookie, fourteen fourteen nine percent targets throughout run as a rookie. I'm a big fan of ESPN's open score, looking at just you know, just does the player create separation? Are they getting in a position for their quarterback to succeed? He's been right next to Gabe Davis the last two years, so yeah, I'm just like, I get that he was a first round talent and I did like him as a rookie, but I'm just kind of taking a step back and being like, are we just ignoring last year and like trying to move on past it? Because there was numbers from his rookie year that say maybe he was valued too highly, and I'm starting to think that's the key. So if it doesn't go well this year, his value is done. It's gone.
Yeah, I'm done, Mike, You got any names you want to mention?
Just the one I'm terrified of losing value because that's how the question was phrased to me, and it's Garrett Wilson of if we have if if something goes wrong.
This year, I've been bringing up the down case. Bets has been the other side.
Because like both are I think worth talking about of. Garrett Wilson is a great player. He's a great wide receiver. He can get open, he can make very difficult catches. So if everything goes honky Dora with Aaron Rodgers here, he will return value. He'll come through. But as we saw, there's like it can go really bad, and I just it is scary to look at that that of what could happen with his career and what his value is in dynasty of thinking you have a locked in top ten guy for multiple years and not actually getting it would be terrible.
Would it help you to know that I'm in the middle of the Garrett Wilson every single target that he's had in the NFL.
Thread, I'm happy to hear about it.
Man. It's it's rough, Like a couple time Zach Wilson throws the ball one hundred miles an hour at him and it is nowhere close to him, but he throws it really hard.
Right, But I'm saying, like when you're watching it or you're like that a better pass and that's an easy reception.
I think what my takeaway so far has been, he moves differently like Garrett Wilson, just moves differently, and that's something overall that is an alpha trade. I think that's what you're saying, Bets.
Right, Yeah, I mean he's he's just that good, right, Like there's no question, no one's denying that. It's just the systemic risks with the Jets that I think, Like last year, people were like, this is gonna work. And yes, of course no one saw Aaron Rodgers tearing his achilles in Week one. But we're having the same exact conversation this year. We're like, this is gonna work. Like it's it's fine, it's gonna work.
Yeah, and there's a quarterbacking question is on a repaired achilles.
And in Egypt, and so who knows, right. I see where it goes so well for the Jets and they compete for the division. I also see a scenario where like they want seven games again, you know, so I I see both sides.
I'm just gonna quickly mention Cooper cup I'm scared that a year from now, not only is he gonna lose value, but like he's like, eh, I'm good. I don't have to do the NFL anymore. And Sean McVay does the same thing, So that's that's a fear. Love Cooper Cup.
And then he's trying to take over our jobs. Guys. He's doing podcasting now.
And he started a coffee company. I mean, props to him. I mean he's he's a fan of us, right.
Hey, cash in bro got it. Yeah, we love Cooper Cup.
And then, uh, I just want to mention Jason because I've been doing some digger loser.
You have him in gain you.
Like he's going to gain value, Like I think he's going to be good. That's that's how we're looking at it.
Right, Jason is like the worst player to talk about because they're like, there's nothing, there's it's just literally nothing. This of last year was brutal, and you're like, but he's a I believe him, and as a prospect, maybe the team is a little bit better. Tyler Lockett's a year older, like talking into existence, the path forward is such this tiny, little narrow beam mode you stay on the field, and yet he seemed like he should be one of the next big things in the NFL and betting on that field is bad right now.
Oh, I'm not saying you need to go trade for him. I'm saying if you have him, don't sell home.
Yeah, if you have Jason, I'm holding Oh.
I got we got so many offers down with that ship. Yeah yeah, No, like he's gonna be on the field three wide receiver sets. I mean, you ran fourteen routes with two wide receivers on the field. That's what I've been looking at all day, is like, Okay, are they even on the field. He wasn't, So hopefully this new system he's a little bit better. But he's being poop pooed on. People don't like him. Yeah, I agree, And when he's on your team, you got to stick up for your guys. So that's gonna do it. For this episode, make sure you check out the Ultimate Draft Kit, and we'll be back talking dynasty running backs next week.
Goodbye.
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