On today’s dynasty fantasy football podcast, Borg, Mike & Andy answer a number of listener questions! Player values, dynasty trades, and how to create an engaging dynasty league! Dynasty outlooks for Kyler Murray, Keenan Allen, Nico Collins, and others! Join Borg, Betz, and a Baller each week to take your Dynasty fantasy football game to the next level and dominate your league -- Fantasy Football Podcast for December 6th, 2023.
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Welcome to the Fantasy Footballer's Dynasty podcast with Borg Bets and a Baller.
Welcome in. It's Wednesday, December sixth. Here Fantas Footballer's Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Bergnoni. I am joined by Michael Wright and special guest Andrew Holloway.
Why are you the micromachine guy right now? What is happening?
This is who I am, It's who I was born to be.
Where's he going? Too quick? It was?
It was real high pitched, real fast, slow down.
I think it's because so I record with Bets a lot on this podcast but also DFS and betting, and every single time I have to make sure I count it out so that I get in a nickname for him every episode, and that's what I'm used to. And I almost went with the nickname there for Andy, but uh, well it's probably Andrew.
Probably, oh, Andrew, I could be and this show. I don't know if you know what a nickname is not your birth name. I always try to think of a birth name for somebody.
I just went with Andrew, but yeah, on this show, that could be your persona.
I'll just legal name. The problem is when I hear Andrew. I immediately like I go into like my mom is telling me to do something important like that is my mom calls me Andrew, It's like Andrew, Andrew, go to your room?
Does she still? Does she go Andy or just Andrew? I'm Andrew forever forever. I'm Andrew for my mom. I don't know if my dad ever addresses me as as with any name.
I let my parents know. I said, don't you ever ever call me Michael? Do you you? You made it very clear. Uh huh. Look back in third grade, is that when you made your change?
Oh?
Yeah, that's what I may change.
Yeah, because there was too many Michaels every There was not a single class in my entire life that there were not two to three Michaels. So you just felt like you were in a c yes with the rest of the world.
You weren't unique, you weren't identifiable as your own person. You just blended into the other Michaels and you said, you know what I am Mike. Yep, hear me, roar. That is exactly what happened.
I have felt that way whenever I've met a Kyle. I've said, either we're gonna be really good friends or I must destroy you because I don't know if we can be friends.
Interesting, So you have more of a face off situation.
Yeah, and I'm okay with that.
Do you feel like if you meet a Kyle and they're not living up to what you believe a Kyle should be, that's the ones you want to kind of tick out.
We have pretty low bars for Kyle.
That makes sense.
There's not a lot of great ones we do.
Oh.
Thanks, No, I'm feeling great about that. We are glad you're with us on the show. Today. We're gonna be answering some Dynasty questions, talking about what makes this successful league. We'll throw out some player valuations. I think that's the biggest question that people have right now. What do I do with this player? What do I do going into the off season by the contender, rebuilding, all those things. So we'll talk about some of those players. If you want to be a part of this community, and right now I am staring at our Discord channels for Dynasty, you got to join thefoot dot com. You can become a member and we have a Dynasty Superflex channel, Dynasty Trade Advice, and we've got some pretty great stuff. Andy you're pretty good at the proteas. Oh I'm twenty twenty four.
Look, we genuinely, I mean, we like to have a lot of fun. Sometimes we even call each other by our legal names. But the truth is is we are always trying to advance our product. And next year we have a lot of huge things in store in terms of upgrading the experience of being a part of the foot plan. It's very important to us that we take that next step and and that like the ease of use, the accessibility and the app you know that is coming for next year, all that stuff. We want to upgrade the Dynasty resources, right, not just redraft, and we want to upgrade the actual you know, the apps and the and the web experience. So you know, Kyle's right, we have a lot coming your way. And this year the Dynasty Show. You know, I'm privileged to be on it this week. I think I've been on it one or two other times this year. But like it's done. You guys have done a great job, and it's been awesome to see the response and people they're into their Dynasty leagues and that goes on, you know, well into the off season. So the response has been awesome. I'm happy to be here today. And the Foot Clan mighty and strong. I mean, at some point, the foot plan just overwhelms any amount of teasing that I can do. And they they're their own you know, cloud of madness over on the Discord server and you got to get in there.
Bets and I always joke about this. While we could be doing so many things as a company, often it's like, Okay, how can we improve and then basically not ask anything more from people. It's like, we want to give you even more value yea for what you're already a part of. So it's it's a business strategy. I don't know if I agree with guys, because people are getting more and more and more.
Yeah, you know, it's worked. Okay, we're going next year is year ten.
Kyle Kyle's the squeeze it out guy.
Yeah, yeah, he wants more money, less product. Kyle's always saying take some stuff away from them.
Yeah, we always say that about DFS pass. It's like, hey, let's.
Crazy, that's true. You do say that. Yeah, You're like, this is not fair to us, but no, it's fun. It's been a good ride in the Discord to speak of that like that is we have the largest fantasy football discord channel in the world now and the most active, and like, I feel like I can say that because I'm not the one that's like Papa Josh is in there and the dynasty folk are in there on a regular basis, and like, you guys have done a great job of just making that can community strong.
I've got a question for us, just to start us off before we get in the mail bag. This is from Dan from the website, and he says, I've heard you guys share on the main podcast. What makes a good redraft league, like the League of Record. We reference that a lot keeper leagues, But for dynasty leagues, do you have any tips for league engagement? What makes your dynasty leagues successful?
Yeah? I mean the dynasty format is great because you have that continuation, almost anticipation that comes with the offseason, right. I mean, it's not just you get the payoff of having your season play out, but so many teams in every league are building towards the future, looking towards the rookie draft, looking towards free agency. Yeah.
Free agency is like it's an almost immediate thing because this is the time of year no matter if you're a contender or not. You're looking at players that, oh, maybe I'll just stash this player on the end of my bench and see what happens. And then free agency hits and all of a sudden that player has is a new home, or that player the starter in front of them ends up leaving town, and now there's an opportunity for that player. So there's it's there's multiple events throughout the year, the calendar year where where there's like big action happens for the rise or fall of Dynasty player value.
It feels almost like a Dynasty league is the maximum amount of like scratcher tickets that you get, yeah, in a league format, because there's something about drafting a player and then having them materialize into like a valuable Like we make the joke, like our running joke is if a if a no name player makes a play, the other person in the studio will go, oh, really, really he de Mario Douglas did that? Huh? Who's got him? In Dynasty? Yeah, because because it's like somehow they're yours right, like they're part of your family. So Mike used the right word, and I know you're going to talk about it too, Kyle, but just the idea of events, I mean having things to look forward to in dynasty for the league itself. You know, nothing quite like a rookie draft, but every NFL event that happens is really an opportunity for the dynasty league.
Yeah, and you can kind of place stuff ahead of you based on the league calendar, you know, as we move towards January and then you get to playoffs, Like there are opportunities for you as a commissioner or you as a league to set things in front of you, so an end of season review. I know a lot of league's league of record, they've always had power rankings done by somebody that's not the three of you guys, and that's amazing, like to have that conversation, that discussion. I've done a league where at the NFL Draft, we have a competition for who can get the most picks correct, because we all care about those players. A lot of people watch college football, and whoever gets the most right, we have a prize like you get either a little bit more offseason fab or maybe that determines the order of your third or fourth round picks, which is a lot at stake, Like you get those picks. So there are little events that you can put in front of you for the rookie draft, for training camp, hype that if you do that, your league feels like, oh, we're not just waiting around till the rookie draft. But like the off season is fun, the banter's fun, their trades can happen. And I think a lot of leagues and I see this a lot of times for you guys, people are curious how do trades happen? And I feel like the only way to say that is just there's good communication league.
Yeah, and now it used to be one of our like core tips for any league to be active is just making sure there's a common, accessible, alerting messaging system and so for us for many years it was Slack. Sleeper has done a good job of integrating the chat universe, so we kind of use Sleeper the majority of the time. But for some leagues it's a text thread, right that everybody is in on or any of the messaging apps. But if you don't have a place to go to say who's got them in dynasty or a place to go to say you know it, to kind of mock the like last year, this is what an event means. It doesn't just mean the NFL draft. An event is also when Zach Sharboney is selected in the first round and your and your friend has Kenneth Walker and then all of a sudden, everyone's talking about the obvious implications of the move and Mike is in the corner crying. Like that's an event, like a crying a crying league made as an event, and it was and still probably is a little bit.
Yeah, he's not been doing as good, which was like, it sucks. I love Zach Scharbney the player. I hated that he was drafted by Seattle, and because it's now I have to root against him.
I have to.
I have to actively hope that my analysis was wrong, that Pete Carroll and the Seahawks were wrong, and Zach Charbonney is not that guy, so they keep Walker as the dude.
This is a yeah see see see I didn't mean to walk Mike into an actual analysis of his situation, but an event like that, Yeah, he's in it forever.
I mean, half of Dynasty is just therapy based on my past decisions of what I did right, league right. And that's another fun thing. If you want to dig up old rookie drafts and use that as conversation basis.
Yeah, that's always a good time.
Yeah. I mean, it's no big deal that I drafted Darrenton Evans before Antonio Gibson. No big deal, Like I never think about that.
I at all know that's not something you would remember.
I am cursed. Mike has a great memory. I am cursed with the memory of where players went, their draft cap and all that stuff. So it sticks with me and it's why I like this job. But also I hate it because I can't forget these players.
You almost need to write down the good moves you make so you could go look back that they exist. I remember drafting Antonio Gibson in the late second round.
It was awesome. Got two years of an RB one in the back of the seconds.
Yeah.
So I just have to make good decisions and then I can remember good stuff.
Yeah exactly.
Okay, well I'll remember that moving forward. But today on the show, we're gonna be answering some listener questions, So let's get into it mail bag, all right, If you want to get your questions answered best, I would recommend our Discord channel. We have a dynasty trade advice Dynasty Superflex. I mean, people are talking all the time in there, and I'm gonna grab some of our questions today from our Discord channel, but this first one is from Ernesto, and I think this is a great opening question, and I think you guys get this a lot. What is the best argument to convince lifelong Redrafters to switch to a dynasty league or would you rather create a side dynasty league with the same owner's parallel to the long standing Redraft league.
You create the parallel, you need to give everyone a chance. And the hard the hardest thing, well that's being too much, but a difficult thing of dynasty is you cannot argue with someone. Don't argue someone to join your league, because if they don't want to do it, if like if they don't already have this itch of oh I do it. I want to do a dynasty league. I want to experience that. If they have to be convinced into the dynasty league, you have the potential that in a year you're finding a new you're finding a new manager, and and that can be very difficult to depending on what that player did with the team, maybe they maybe it's in fine shape and someone's going to take over, or maybe someone has to take over a team that's garbage and now has to scratch and claw through a rebuild, which a rebuilding dynasty. Sometimes it's real fast, but sometimes it's multiple years. So I would never argue with someone to be in the league, and we created the parallel league. There is a huge amount of crossover, but there's probably what I mean, for maybe four people in the in the Dynasty League who are not in the league. Yeah, so it's not everybody, because dynasty is not for everybody.
Yeah, yeah, I mean those are all good points. I mean, you don't want to have the battle to get somebody to commit. You can make the case as to why it's valuable, and then if they're excited about it, that makes sense. We're not saying that like you just wait for everybody to come running to you. But you know, it does take more commitment to make it a league that's enjoyable. And I'd rather have a smaller league at ten teams or twelve teams than a fourteen team league with like three or four dead teams. So that's another important thing to remember.
It's always hard because you don't want to ruin what you already have. Yeah, that's its own league, but you want to ride the excitement of people that, hey, you know, they want to be in another league, they want to be around the rookie draft. Like there's just different points of the year that we talked about earlier. So yeah, I have a super flex dynasty league that I started with some friends who you know, they kind of dip their toes in. But it was really simple to get a draft together. We actually had a live draft for it, which was amazing, and then we went to ten teams because we wanted to make sure that we had committed people as opposed to just you know, move on. So next question from baseball card kid, which I think okay had been could have been my handle, could have been Andy's handles right, and.
To anyone who's close to our age, it could have been their handle.
Were you were you basketball cards, Mike.
No, I was originally baseball card. I mean I had basketball cards, but I, like everyone, my father had a friend who was thoroughly convinced that baseball cards would pay for my college education. It would be that heirloom that I could have in a bank deposit box that I would be able to sell later on, I just didn't get the right cards. I mean, I feel like everyone's everyone's dad was either that person or that everyone's dad had that friend who convinced them that this is the future.
Yeah, because at that time, everybody was like card the old cards were worth a lot of money and everybody was thinking about that.
So no, we all have nineteen nineties cards that are worth jack squat.
Yeah, because everyone has Ken Griffy's rookie card.
Everybody.
So this question from Baseball card kid is what is the value of Saquon Barkley? And I think these are a lot of the questions we're gonna get. But Saquon twenty six point eight years old, Interia contract year, and just to give you context, before the season, he was seen almost universally as a top five dynasty running back, and I don't think that we would put him there before me after. I don't think we put him there after.
I'm probably I'm probably on the most bullish about Saquon.
List still, so as in like still top five for you.
I think he could be right around there, yeah, I and that just has to do with watching him on the football field this year. And I know we got those overarching, like he goes off the field, he looks like he's hurt. Like I actually think that Saquan has looked as good as you can look in the environment and situation that he was in this year in New York. So you know, there are players out there, like I think he looks better than Joe Mixon does, right, Like, I think, sure, I think he looks better than a number of players that are going to expire sooner. And he's not that old, so I I guess I'm more Yeah, so Bjeon's ahead of him? Uh cmc is I think he's still still ahead. Gibbs is still ahead. And then you know you have an argument with probably et in ahead. Did you say Bree, I didn't say Breese. Oh you're getting real nervous from this couple game stretch here. I'm getting a little nervous about the stretch. I'll put Breze ahead of him because the truth is, I would I would take that, but I mean six, I mean that's in contention six or seven.
Well, what about what about Johnny Taylor? I would take Johnny Taylor.
We need we need more information on Saquon this offseason. Is he going back to New York. Is he departing? The destination will matter.
It's tough because you're buying into a running back where you know the destination. But turning twenty seven, okay.
I know it's he should be behind jt.
Okay, so somewhere maybe RB six to RB eight, Yes, which still top ten. Would you rather have Andy? This is a running back Taylor.
Taylor's two little less than two years younger, I think, or right around there.
Would you rather have Josh Jacobs or Saquon Barkley.
Yeah, those two are great because they're both the franchise the Dynasty franchise players this year, and I think they're the exact same age, right, or maybe maybe Jacobs is a year younger. Yeah, he's he's a little bit younger. I'll take Saquon in that situation because what I saw in the field this year from Saquon was still at a level as different than Josh Jacobs in my opinion.
And you know, we can change our opinions as we get more information throughout the offseason. But I think what you're saying is his skills didn't totally vanish with a terrible team. I mean, this team went in the absolute gutter this year. So twenty six point eight, though, is starting to get to the point where you want to get out earlier. And that's kind of the strategy that we talked about a lot on the show, like what would it take for you to move Saquon? Would you need a first And I mean, I don't know if you can get to first for Saquon.
There was a point this past offseason where I tried to move Christian McCaffrey in our main league and the greatest thing that ever happened to me was this was this other manager saying no, because I was at the point with McCaffrey and I know he's an outlier. I mean he's an outlier like certain a handful of players have been, but like Saquon's still in that category for me, Like the amount of work that Saquon bears and the production that he puts up there, I still think he has the possibility of being one of those players that people try to get out of and look to regret it. That's just me for our league.
Again, it's just a one off. But the manager who has Saquon is in a rebuilding team. I mean, this is a not a it's not a basement dwelling team, but it's not a competitor. And I in the middle of the year was looking at trying to get Saquon Barkley and it was for their asking price was two firsts and a good player. So I mean, at least in our league, the value of him to trade him was they still wanted everything.
What where do those guys slot him for you guys, I mean that's what I'm curious for. Yeah, the Jacob's discussion or the Brie's discussion.
I still put priests very, very high. It's like the argument for like Garrett Wilson hasn't moved down for me. I still think Garrett Wilson's a great player. And next year it's probably Rogers. So Rogers on this team with Briess Hall as the running back this year is very very different. I would put you know, them in that second tier where they're in, you know, from six to ten. The other player that I thought was kind of interesting to add back into this mix because this guy was a top ten running back before entering the season.
It was Tony Pollard. Oh, it was.
It was very disord the beginning. There was great like running back five fifteen fourteen, and then you had this lull that was so disappointing. But guess who's back to dominating. It's Tony Pollard. Would you call this dominating running back twelve nine and thirteen?
Yeah, see, I don't. I don't call that dominating. I don't. When I watch those games, I'm like, ah, you finally got in the end zone twelve nine and thirteen. Isn't good enough for me?
For what?
It's a high bar? Yeah, So who was?
I mean, correct, mccaffery's dominating, but who else is?
Actually? Then? All I mean by that is that where he was drafted and the way people thought about him. If we're now at the point where his great games are ones where he's not in the top five, then that's a change of our view of him in my opinion.
Do you disagree the previous year?
Yeah, from the previous year, from our expectations going into the season. So is he over one hundred yards in any of those games? No? So I mean I'm not saying he's not playing well. I'm just saying it kind of seems. Okay, then maybe I have a higher bar. Is David Montgomery dominating? No? Okay, No, he's not. He was, but he's not anymore.
He's so with Saquon Barkley. There's also a group of young running backs that I think are pushing into that top ten, like dwon A Chan. I think he belongs in the top ten.
Yeah, it's really hard to It's only three games, but it's very difficult to look at those three games and not extrapolate and be like, yeah, this is more more. You'll get more of this than you will get failure.
We most it's like he's he's already pushed the envelope. Like his production at thirty and he's thirty, right, at least thirty or thirty one.
I feel like he's thirty one.
Yeah, I mean he's he's I saw some thirty one and a half. I saw a tweet that he's like he's like four full years older than Joe Mixon, which is wild to think about it from a production perspective. But yeah, the path for a Chan, based on what we've seen, is quite remarkable.
I think so. I think as week the off season, we have some running backs that are gonna change teams. We have some other young guys that you know, Kenneth Walker, I don't know what to do with him where it was like, So there's a number of guys in that six to ten, and then even guys in the top fifteen that last year felt like locks to stay there are now just vanished, gone, Like Austin Eckler was RB thirteen, RB fourteen and now it's just vanished. So we'll be talking about those all off season in the Dynasty Pass everywhere else. But let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we're back, and this questions from Barry on Twitter says, I'm the commissioner.
Nice.
Nice, I'm a commissioner, and we are having our year one coming to an end. What if not all of the managers are coming back? I know, to replace them, but what if the team is really bad?
I mean, you don't have a choice. You have to replace unless you want to do some kind of you know, like shrinking of the league. Like you're at twelve teams and you lose two managers and you want to go down to ten and shrinkage. Yes, yes, you toss it into cold water and then figure figure out what you're gonna do with the players. If it's some kind of if they just go into the into the rookie draft. You can figure something out. So I mean, yeah, I don't know what the question is. If you you have to do something, you can't just have a team out there in the in the ether, just floating around.
I So what stinks is if you have eleven committed managers. Yeah, and you're like, I have to find it twelfth or you know, nine, whatever the number is. So at the end of the day, I think you just have to get people to sign up for what they're signing up for. This is a multi year thing. It's dynasty. You're not just in one year and you're out. But you need to get to an even number. So I would say it's it's better if you have ten than if you have eleven, or if you're trying to fill it but hopefully you can find somebody else for it. But you have the team's bad. That happens all the time, Like we talk about that all the time in dynasties. You're inheriting a team that truly stinks. And the NFL has that right now. They're called the Panthers.
Yeah, and I mean in dynasties. Sorry Mike, but I was just gonna just you know, teams that appear one way. Yeah, that reality of that situation. It can change quicker than sometimes people expect.
Sure, I was gonna throw out just the idea off the top of my head. If somehow you are stock with eleven. I don't know how it would work within the platform or the system, but you can just have one team or one team a week the league median or something like that. So which I mean, I don't think that's a terrible bar saying this person has to score inside of the top six of scores for this week to get a win. Otherwise you like, it's garbage and you shouldn't have won anyway. So it's it's at least a ripcord if you're stuck with an automount of teams.
Got a couple questions here about rookie picks, and I know we're not quite into twenty twenty four, but it is something that people are starting to think about. First one's from FF Mallard. What are some strategies to avoid first round bus picks? As in, this is my first year in Dynasty. How do you not, I don't know, pick Trey Sermon over Jalen Waddle.
Well, uh, that one is don't. It's it's a pretty good, pretty good bet. Don't take a third round running back over a first round wide receiver.
Now do we like? Who? Do we have a third round running back this year? Who that was? That was like?
Boosted up?
Are they like better than qugeh? Kendre Miller got okay, he's not done anything? Oh right? H was a third round Well that's true.
It was like a late first round rookie pick.
Yeah, but there's I can't imagine there was a lot of rookie drafts that had someone take Chan over Quentin Johnston. I'm sure it happened somewhere, but but not a ton. I mean, the honest, the honest truth is to avoid first round bust picks is it's not possible, not possible at all. You just have to do your best of your scouting.
And well, I think can I jump in real quick go ahead because of the trace sermon example, wouldn't you say that there was some fallacies in that kind of a decision making process, like you mentioned the rounds, but it was also putting confidence not in the player trace sermon, but in the situation, yes, and and the system. So I think that they were like.
And Waddle was a top five pick, right, and people were terrified six I'm sorry people were terrified of his situation. Yeah, because it was awful. It was truly awful. And that's why we talk about talent over situation because talent doesn't change, but situation can't.
Yeah, and I think that that's a when the when the person asked, what can I do to lower the odds? Yeah, that's how you have to look at it. That's one of the ways that you can lower the odds.
Yes, But but then just the you know, like have figure out what your process is. Hopefully part of your process is our Dynasty Pass, which we are extremely proud of the work we put out there that that comes out every Super Bowl Sunday, and that includes our rookie rankings. You know, we give multiple updates to it because things change after the combine and then things change after the draft. But our our rankings based off of our scouting, and our scouting is is analytically based. We give you their production profiles as in how well did that player take you know, a portion of their team because in college you can't just do yards. You can't look at a team like Tennessee like the volunteers, you know, the past couple years with Hendon Hooker, and then put them up against a team that just know that that's not how they play offense. How much does someone dominate in their own offense, those type of things, and then starting to look at the film looking for the traits that you have that you find to be most sticky. And for me, I'm looking like in running backs, I'm looking for balance and then initial speed, balance and then kind of top in speed on top of all the pass catching stuff.
But just like you'll.
Hone your process over the over some years of playing.
Yeah, we started looking at some of the quarterbacks, just kind of in our chat, looking at some of those Jayden Daniels of LSU for this next year.
Yeah, and you know.
Who's former Arizona State guy. But just those initial conversations that we're having and then it translates to not just watching the game film, but their production has a lineup with other players. But my last little point for avoiding picks is just don't go into the draft and say this is what my team needs, and don't go into the draft saying like I'm in love with this player. This is the only person to take like, yes, pick your guys that you like, but just be be open. Be open to the fact that you could be wrong about certain players. You could be really wrong about. Hey, you know this running back, I don't need it for my team. When in dynasty, things can change in six months. Like you you might need a running backer, you might need a wide receiver. So and be open.
Then it's just like redraft, there is a This is not stat base because this is all emotional. Don't pick a guy that you don't want.
Just because.
Like the NFL or other people are telling you to draft that player.
Whiffing on a.
Player you didn't like feel is way worse than whiffing on a player that you believed in it.
What's humbling and maybe encouraging to you if you make a mistake is that there are a lot of teams that drafted players ahead of Pokinakua this year. Yeah, and there are a lot of teams that you know, the top Quentin Johnson was the first wide receiver off the board, And you know, if you don't want to make a mistake in the beginning, as you developed that process, you can lean into the draft capital as maybe you should as your biggest point, but man, it is just it's kind of wild.
Look back at your rookie drafts in your league. I mean I look back and say, hey, maybe I miss something with Terras Marshall. He was drafted in the second round.
I liked him, but I liked him too.
The something that you know is I think starting to surface more and more is guys that cannot separate in college. Oh yeah, and they're still getting drafted high because the NFL values probably over values a winner, a fifty to fifty ball winner, and like, because that's what Quentin Johnston is supposed to be. He is currently not it's not over for him yet, but saying like, but it's painful.
But there are guys.
Where looking at their separation numbers and their analytics, I can't think of the names off the top of my head, but it was like the string of early round players who have failed miserably of late, where these players that they were fifty to fifty winners and they got in the NFL, Harry exactly, and it's like they don't they they don't separate. Like they can be athletic and everything, but sometimes guys just don't know how to play wide receiver. And can't separate because they've leaned on their athleticism too long. And then they go to the NFL and they realize, oh, everybody is bigger, stronger, faster. Yeah, you had a hairy grown Yeah.
I mean it's just Harry quintin Johnston comparison. Is It's It's sad.
Yeah. I was looking at the rookie wide receivers this year that have showed out and targets per out run, yards per out run, the stuff we talk about a lot Pooka Nakua draft in the fifth round, Rashi Rice, who right now is being targeted on twenty six percent of its route He was taken in the second round, YEP, fifty fifth overall. Samario Douglas. You know he's being targeted on twenty six percent of its routes. Taken in the sixth round, Tank Dell. You know these are the guys that are crushing.
I think coming in.
I think Dantavian Wicks is leading the packers in yards per route run.
Really, I think so you just wanted to get in.
Yeah, I just like to talk about Dantavian Wicks whenever I can. He's he's who has him in dynasty that's.
What it is. I had him at one point. I must have dropped him, Sure did, because he's on my rocks. So you picked him up? Huh? Yeah?
Who has Pooka and Tank? I can't remember jas.
Nice the team that's going to get the first overall pick. That's who you guys are.
You guys are gonna be in some trouble eventually here eventually.
This is a great question. I saw this one on Twitter that was given to us and I paused for whiles from Nick. He says, has CD Lamb's value passed Jamar Chase's value in Dynasty?
No?
I think it's not for me. I think it's an interesting question. I would say no. But what's the case for.
Uh.
The case for is that Jamar Chase's quarterback is just like a walking injury. I mean, like Joe Burrows keeps getting hurt and just seeing what's that stretch run that stretch on that CD Lamb has had really since the just before the bye week has been I mean it's been NonStop where even when number one, when when Jamar Chase is is dominating, for Jamar Chase, there's still real ebbs and flows. So I think that that's it's a recency bias question.
It does feel that.
Way, but the gap has closed.
Yeah, what it was close? So is Ceedee Lamb. Is Ceedee Lamb firmly your number three guy behind Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase or or is there a chance that.
Yeah, I guess you could say Tyreek.
I was gonna say, is there a chance that you would rather have Ceedee Lamb with the upcoming quarterback drama that will be happening for the Minnesota Vikings over Jefferson? Yeah, because it's I don't know if it's Kirk. If it is Kirk, he's coming off an Achilles injury. What's the age difference for Ceedee Lamb and Jamar Chase and Jefferson. I will look all of that up.
Yes, we talked about before the season, when we talked about Jefferson or Chase, we said there is a risk factor of we don't know this player beyond this year because Jefferson was just firmly won Chase two. And we kind of made the argument like you can pick either one. It's totally fine. Jefferson is twenty four years old, so and then Ceedee Lamb is twenty four point six.
Yeah, basically saying so ceedee.
Lamb is a couple months older than Jefferson, and Jamar is about about a year younger, little less.
Than a year. I mean it it's hard not to react to this kind of elite run. You know. I feel like, wouldn't we be having a conversation about aj Brown if it happened? Yeah? Well, I think he was during the four week run that he had of over one hundred and fifty yards or whatever.
End of the season, he was my number three.
There you go. I mean, until it does feel a little bit like, let's settle down, Jamar Chase is the best athlete outside of maybe Jefferson, So to me, I still have I would put Seed Lamb three or four, all right, but I don't. I'm on one. Dude, where do you got him? Kyle?
I think so before it was a tier of its own before the season. I think that you can really flip a coin of like where two and three is. I would put Chase one, and I had Chase one before the season. So I just there's so much risk with Jefferson right now. I don't know what his team looks like, but he's a dominator. So it's kind of splitting here at the end of the day. But Ceedee Lamb right now is probably gonna go on one of those runs like you saw with DeAndre Hopkins, where it's just like every year he's the primary target and you get four or five years in a row of just elite production. So I'm kind of.
Well, I'll tell you excited me. Let me tell you this. I have a it's not a dynasty league, it's our keeper league. And I made a trade at the deadline to pick up Ceedee Lamb, and our keeper league has very unique rules where you have a franchise player you select, and then you have three keepers and they can't match positions.
They the three keepers can match themselves, but they they cannot match the franchise.
So if you keep a running back, all of your key, if you franchise a running back, all of your other keepers for the keeper lottery have to be different positions. I fully expected when I made that trade that I'd be franchising Saquon Barkley and then Ceedee Lamb would be in my lottery with DeVante Adams and Tank Dell. I'm almost one hundred percent sure Ceedee Lamb is my franchise player at Yeah, like I don't want to lose him with the potential, and like Dak's gonna get paid again because they have to. They don't have a choice, and they have to because they have to free up their cap space and they should, which is something where it's saying.
Yeah, like Dak should be their quarterback.
Agreed, all right?
Next question is about Kyler, and you guys can probably get the best understanding of whatever's going on with Kyler and in Dynasty. So this one's from Ryan and for Mitch, what is Kyler's valuation? And then someone asked, we'd read there of Kyler or Trevor Lawrence in Dynasty, and I gave us a list of players that we can also compare. But Kyler feels like you could firmly make him a top ten quarterback and then you could also make for a lot of these other guys.
So I think, I think what's going on the last month of Kyler? Because Kyler, if you're watching the Arizona games, he does not look like the Kyler Murray that we are used to.
He's still made some elite player, Yes, yeah, yeah, you can.
The talent is still there and you can see it flash. But he is a guy who who is still coming off of an ACL injury. He's getting back into football and he's in it. It's a brand new offense that he had. He didn't have a training camp, he had a twenty one day window to actually practice and now was Kyler hitting the books before he came off of the I R.
I hope. I don't know. There's You can make some assumptions of things that we've heard in the past, but I Kyler to me is still a top ten quarterback. But my my larger point is I think Kyler is the quarterback of the future for the Arizona Cardinals, even if they end up with the top two pick, and I do. I think he will get better.
Like next year, I think will be much much better for Kyler, especially with.
That your way of picking Kyler in that situation over Trevor Lawrence. Over Trevor Lawrence, Yeah, I am not that direct you would take Lawrence because I don't want to be caught holding the bag and I think that there is zero present chance that that happens with Trevor Lawrence.
I think they I think you're correct that you may not be holding the bag but I think that the Trevor Lawrence will always be that quarterback eight ish.
You're looking. Do you think so you think Kyler has the ability to be Yes, I think higher. I don't know. I think have come and gone. He still runs. He's gonna have Marvin Harrison Junior on this team. Do you think, are you guys? I think so.
I was gonna ask you guys, hope they get with the second or third pick, the do nothing.
I want more in life?
Yeah, I honestly think that if they if they end up with number two, because the Patriots somehow end up third, you flip down. You let the Patriots take the quarterback and then you take the wide receiver.
Yeah.
You you you have to equip this team because the team doesn't have weapons right now.
That's what you feel when you watch the game, like you can put it on Kyler. But at the same time, he's he's throwing to Dorts and he's throwing to an elite, elite tight end. He does he hasn't He's the best tight end's ever played football in the history. In the NFL gold jacket. I mean just I don't want there is no McBride. Tony Gonzalez wishes he was tram does because you'd be a lot younger and he could go play football again.
Okay, he's my tight end on my main two home leagues, and I'm just just ride him.
Can we just get somebody that doesn't have Trey McBride on all of their core rosters to comment on what they believe about Trey McBride, because I can't handle Mike. What here is my comment?
How Kyler Murray has been here four weeks, he's played four games? Am I correct the that's correct? Who is the tight end one in that time frame? Tight end one?
Yeah, it is, in fact Fray McBride. Let's go, baby to the moon. I don't feel like there's a way for me to speak. I feel like I am muted by your jersey that you're wearing. And the truth is that I think traming bride will be very good. I don't think he's a perennial top five. I think he's I think he can be, but I don't think he is now. And there's a huge difference between those two. Mike wants to lock that in.
Yeah, like you'd put him above the goddard tier.
I would put him in the Goddard tier. I'd put him above the Godard too. Yeah. Well in Dynasty maybe, Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. In Dynasty. Well, I d knows what you're talking about anymore. Yeah, I mean what tight end, tight end one of all time? Yeah, I do, Tray McBride. Look, if Marvin Harrison takes one hundred and fifty targets and.
McBride takes the other one fifty, we're good to go. Man, consolidate those targets Arizona.
All right, I'm in McBride number one tight end all time. Take them number one on one in Dynasty.
All right, let's take one more break and we'll be right back. All Right, we're back with a question that I feel super selfish about. But someone asked and then also this can help Andy, was that person you, Kyle? I am not Zambodi Cody, but I do like that name, Zamboni Cody. He says, what do I do with Keenan Allen? And I think you can just live your life and love it and enjoy it. But Andy, you do have Keenan Allen and Dynasty, and I feel like there's not much you can do other than ride this player until the wheels fall off.
You're probably right, though I do wonder I don't think his I don't think his trade value is nothing after this season, and so, you know, he's just been so good. I think you might be able to sell somebody on him repeating what he did this year. He's He's definitely in the category of players that you just ride into the wheels fall But I mean, think about it with Mike Evans. Can I bring him up in the same conversation, because Mike Evans nobody wanted him in Dynasty right like he was. He was the like I had Chris Godwin, and then I traded Chris Godwin and and for Mike Evans and something, and then nobody wanted Mike Evans. And now Mike Evans had another thousand yard season and he's going to get paid money, like Mike Evans is ending this season, and he's going to sign a contract with somebody, maybe with Tampa, maybe not. And so if I could trade either one of those guys, I'm doing it. I mean, I am. I am going to sell those two guys. Now. I hope it's after a title, because then I'll be willing to take less on the dollar, but both feel like guys that you're stuck just playing until the wheels fall off, for sure. Yeah, I like, but you're telling me you wouldn't if you were like your team, Mike. Let's let's just play this out for a second. Your team is great. In fact, I looked at your team after this past week, which you scored the highest points in Dynasty, and you're still fighting to get in. Like, I guess you're locked in the playoffs. But you were paranoid last night. Yes, and you've got Jamar Chase and Ceede Lamb. Yes. Like, are you telling me you wouldn't Wan Keenan Allen is a flex on that roster. If you were going for a title next year, I would enjoy it. I think you would love it, and you might pay. You might pay some future for the now and there might be some now teams that would pay. That's my opinion. Like, if I was going for the title, guess what I did. I traded for Keenan Allen and Mike Evans on the cheap this year, and that's how it's played out. My team has been the best team in the league. It is.
It is a very viable strategy now it doesn't go in by the strategy, I mean targeting veterans for much cheaper than than trading for the new hotness is because we all we all want the young, the new hotness player who looks like they're about to go on a three to four year run. But there's these old guys that that they are very proven players and they continue to be great. Keenan Allen getting back to the guy at hand, like, what can the Chargers even do going into next year? Mike Williams is still under contract?
Am I right there?
Now?
I think he's a free agent. He's an agent.
I think he I think he's entering his third year, which is what he's signed.
Okay, let's let's verify that, because then that why do you look at that about it?
Mike? Mike used the word there that I think needs to take higher precedent in dynasty leagues, and the word is proven. Okay, he's got one more year, yep, Okay, he's Evans. Who does Mike Williams one more yep? Okay? But recovering from major injury and hasn't been fantasy relevant in a while. But that I'll you're saying, what can the team dude, Yeah, what what can they possibly do? Mike Williams is coming back, They're locked into Quintin Johnston. Yeah, this is how are they running back?
Are they going to spend another first or second round on a wide receiver? And if they don't, then Keenan Allen because they need a running back. That's what they need.
Like Keenan Allen will still be this guy. And and the skill set of separation that Keenan Allen has that age as well, that I don't think that disappears next year. All right, So no, So my point on the proven thing was just that on paper, you're like, I'd love to lock in like Garrett Wilson and Terry McLaurin on my roster this year and start them as my whiteouts because they're they're just gonna go on this run for many, many, many years. Mike Evans and and Keenan Allen were by far the better selection in that group. Yes, it's like we've said this so many times. You don't just play for tomorrow. Otherwise your championship is always going to be a tomorrow away. You're never going to be in the present. You know, my team I got lucky to a degree like heavy you have hit on almost all of your old guys, but like Raheem Mostert, I've had for three years of dominance. You know, Keenan Allen and Adam Thielen and the Tyler Lockett, like this old group of guys getting you through you. Proven is the word I wanted to pay attention to. There. It doesn't have to be old. You're not looking for old, You're looking for proven. And if someone thinks of proven players old before they really are not good, that's your value adds assuming you're underpaying, like do not pay correct, don't pay full draft. I'm telling you no one wanted Mike Evans.
No I know one, because I had Mike Evans from the beginning of our Dynasty League through I had him for I don't remember eight years, and at the trade deadline when I was looking, I had to I have to rebuild, and Mike Evans is an elite wide receiver and I felt like I was taking crazy pills because no one would even give me a first for him. I'm like, it's you fought to do yeah, I'm like, it's Mike Evans. The guy has never hit fewer than a thousand yard that was two years ago.
And these narratives that stay in people's minds. Man, they make it hard to trade them. But I do am I wrong that that narrative gets changed a little bit this year with Evans and Keenan or it may, but they just get a year older Kyle, and it doesn't matter.
It it should. I mean, this year is going to stay with people like these guys crushed for fantasy. It's just more of asking the question of what are you willing to take to trade them away. It's like you'd want at least a first for Keenan Allen, but maybe something's like and maybe you don't even care about draft picks, Andy, because you just light years on fire and say see you.
But I can't wait to get one. I cannot wait to get another first round pick that I can trade.
Baby. It's like your allowance.
It is. It's like I get it and it burns a hole in my mind. You're like, well, Andy, here's your three draft picks. But I mean, like, I know it's fun to get the young, amazing player, but we just had a question on how you how you fail? How do I not draft the bus in the first round? Okay, this is a major concern.
Draft a proven veteran. I feel like that's what I'm doing right. I am drafting.
I'm drafting a proven player with my draft pick by trading the pick for the player, and they're proven, they're on my team. They don't last as long, but I just do it again next year.
Yeah, as long as you can continue to hit on, like on some good trade a ways, so you can kind of reload your ammunition to.
We have you and we have Brooks.
Yeah, those two teams have been contenders for the last four or five years in the Dynasty League, and I don't know that if either of you has made a draft pick in that time, you've you you always trade them away, but you're always near the top. But if you don't get that good trade away, the creditors will come calling eventually, after they've been telling me. They've been telling me for for ten years. I like Brooks's team, they've been calling coming. I think they're catching up, and I don't know. Look, maybe you change your address and you dodge them one more year.
I don't know if I can dodge them one more year. I've got Travis Kelsey a tight end. Who am I running back? Christian McCaffrey. I tried to get rid of Alvin Kamara. I mean, this is this is a withering a withering tree that is producing fruit right now.
But it's the number one team in the league.
Give me one more season of fruit. But I am number one, Yes, by a lot.
Yeah, it is worth saying when you're saying trade away first, like these are like the one oh nines, the.
One oh yeah. For me, they're they're they're late.
And so that's I think that's what's important to people. Here are first, like, oh, I want to I want to first, Like, okay, well, the hit rate of the one to eleven and what you're getting there is job so different.
But no one thinks about what pick it will be. They all every time I tried my pick, they all assume by that point in time, I will be the worst team. Therefore the pick will be great.
Yeah, I have your twenty twenty five first, and you I'm opening heah, hoping in the next couple of years.
So you're telling me I should target Saque is what you're telling me this offseason? I guess. So, yeah, you.
Should never trade Keenan. That's my that's my advice. One more question here, and this one is a loaded one about the Texans, who probably are the team we talked about shockingly the most in Dynasty. Like on this show, we've talked about Tank, dell a Ton, We've talked about c J. Stroud to to our horn a lot because he's awesome. But Nico Collins, what is his value? This is a question from Caine Gooden and from Jamiir. They're trying to figure out what do I do with Collins? And what do I do now with Tanked? So how are you guys seeing this team and how they sort things out beyond just this year.
I think this is a great question because I have seen very a very wide range of opinions on Nico Collins, from like, Nico Collins is him, Like he is that guy He's going to, you know, continue to be great. He's in so Kyle. He is in year three, so he has one more year of his contract before he has to get paid the extension by the Texans or another team. I've also seen people saying Tank is the future, like Tank is is one of the future pieces, but Nico may not. Like I expect the Houston Texans to try and make a splash, either in free agency or with the draft pick. Now they don't have a first and try and bring in another high value wide receiver, rendering Nico Collins to the third option, and you have Tank Dell, the rookie and Nico. I am more of the side that I think that Nico Collins.
Is a really, really.
Good Dynasty asset to have. I think he's a very solid player, and I think that he like this. This Tank Dell injury has created such an opportunity for him to really establish the value for the team. If Nico Collins balls out the rest of the year, they will. I would think they move forward with Nico, Tank Dell and then whatever the other pieces. I don't know Noah Brown's or Robert woods contract situation. Off the top of my head. I think Woods might have one more year. Yeah, Woods doesn't matter. No Brown doesn't matter Nico. But it isn't like, has Nico moved into a blue chip type of player for you or is he still someone that you have concerns could be replaced.
There's one name that pops into my head when I think about Nico in Dynasty, and I'll ask you guys this question. It's Higgins. In the future of T Higgins versus the future of Nico Collins, where do you who would you rather have in a dynasty?
Ly that that is a devastating question, right.
I'm telling you.
You're also asking the worst two people about T Higgins on the plane.
Right, the most biased against him, well, in the history, only because it hurt. I think they're the same age. Okay, So T Higgins is twenty four. You said Nico is twenty four. I think okay, so Higgins is like a couple months older. So they're the same age. Uh, team, team I get paid this offseason? He will? But who pays him? That's yeah? Is it the Giants? You know? Is it Kansas City? And does he stay healthy? The health has been a major problem. I don't look at Nico Collins as a bona fide one going on into the future.
Same.
I agree. I think he's a great two I do. I think he's a great too. I think he's a great compliment too. Like they could go forward with Nico and Tank Dell and I think they could get by pretty well. And they could they could add a wide receiver two type of splash, you know, Noah Brown and Robert Woods won't be there a long time. Maybe they're you know, they add a Deontay's style player to that offense at some point in time. So so when I look at Nico and Dynasty versus Higgins, I see more upside for Higgins because I think the contract that he gets paid is going to be more. I don't I don't know if Nico Collins, He's got a long way to go to earn a twenty twenty five contract that's like what T Higgins is probably going to demand. He's just got to put in another full year like that with Tank, Dell and Stroud. So you know, if can be cashed in on, I would do it.
I feel like Higgins has the ceiling, but I think his risk is also higher because if he goes to one of these.
Yeah, he goes to one of those high paid farts.
If he goes to a wasteland situation.
The James Jones to the Raiders, right, yeah, I mean, then he just he vanishes where I don't. I don't think Nico Collins vanishes next year. Yeah, I mean that. No, I don't think he vanishes, But I don't know if you will be confident with him, as a one or two on your Dinece.
He doesn't. He doesn't have the proven track record beyond just what four games this year? Five games pretty much, And I know that you can look at whatever his quarterback situation was the first two years. But he's really tough because he's not a player that you'd usually been on. We talked about separation earlier. He's always been kind of a big fifty to fifty player, and they've transformed him this year to be this intermediate threat. And I mean, props to what they did there. They turned around an entire franchise in a year. Granted they gave the Cardinals a pick, but their offense looks like it could continue to be a machine next year with just those two guys tank Dell.
So I'm such a fan of Houston, and I'm so sad about Tank Dell because they were so fun to watch with him. But yeah, the sky's the limit for that team.
Collins missed Week ten, and had he played in Week ten, he would already be over one thousand yards. He's at nine hundred and ninety right.
Which is exactly what Evans just passed this past week. Yeah, So I mean he's pacing or were you whispering something, Kyle.
I was just saying, it's not normal for a player who's done nothing their first two years to then ascend in their third year all of a sudden and then have staying power on a team that also has another option too.
Well, usually it's one of the other. This is why I don't I think T Higgins is less of a risk. He's more of a risk to injury, but he's more proven. Nico Collins, is this a Devonte Parker season or is this the beginning of something great?
Yeah, it's it's gonna be a good discussion. Like I'm wondering right now, I'm just spitball, and it'sich. He probably belongs as a top twenty to twenty dynasty wide receiver, twenty four somewhere around there. And those are the kind of players that right now, if people are thinking that he's more than that, you know, top fifteen or whatever, like, you can cash in and get a first and something else, or you get a different player that's maybe a little bit older, that's proven, like we've talked about. So, yeah, the Texans might be one of the teams that we've talked about the most this year, and we'll talk about a ton this offseason.
What if t Higgins goes to Houston just ruins everything.
Burns into the ground.
That's not impossible. It's not And Tank's going to be coming back from injury, That's not impossible. That would that would burn them both. It would hurt or would be great because Cis Stroudson next Mahomes, who knows.
He kind of already is all right, one more segment, take it or leave it. This is a final parting shot. We wanted to list a player in Dynasty at the end of the bench that you can pay attention to for the final month. We got a couple questions, including one from John who said, who are some guys at the end of your bench that I just need to pay attention to? Mike, you go first.
So mine is not a name to pay attention to for the final month of the season because he probably will not get any playing time.
But this is a nasty boy that you.
Might want to throw on the end of your bench right now, and that is Charlie Jones of the Cincinnati Bengals. He was a production monster, like Hits, very green in the models and everything. He was a fourth round pick, So the draft capital is not there. However, you have t Higgins and you have Tyler Boyd, who may no longer be a Cincinnati Bengal come into the twenty twenty four season at and there is a chance that Charlie Jones just moves and now he's like the slot wide receiver for the Bengals. This isn't a roster changing type of a player, but it's someone who might be on your waiver wire right now who could turn into a possible start next year.
Yeah. I mean, I'll throw a wild name out there too from the Raiders in Trey Tucker, just because he demanded a couple of weeks ago, he had second most targets on the team behind Adams. And if these rumors are true, but Adams forcing himself off of this roster going into next year, the fact he's demanding this many targets on so few snaps. You know he's got some speed to get down the field. You know the snaps might be coming his way next year.
It's funny you mentioned his name. When I've watched their games a couple of times, I've said, who is that guy like on the field? Right Afar? And yeah, he was taken earlier than what people thought out of Cincinnati last year. I'm going to throw out the exact opposite body type, Cedric Tillman. He's a monster. He's big third round pick on Cleveland Browns last month forty one, thirty nine, forty two, forty three routes run only Keenan Allen and Garrett Wilson have raymore routes. Had to throw in a Keenan Allen stat. But he's getting targeted. He's big and andy. You mentioned him at the very end of the episode the other day of just like, hey, pay attention to him and you might be able to get him for a really cheap third round pick or something. But I mean, who knows like this offense next year what it looks like, he could easily be the number two on this team. Just an interesting name to throw rian. That's gonna do it for this episode of the Dynasty Podcast. You're gonna join the Food dot Com if you want to be a part of everything, we'll take you next week.
Goodbye.
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