Dynasty Sink or Swim? + SuperFlex Boost - Dynasty Fantasy Football

Published Dec 27, 2023, 10:00 AM

Dynasty outlooks for players who took a second half nose dive! On today’s dynasty fantasy football podcast, Borg, Betz, and Jason discuss those disappointing players and if they are trade away candidates! Plus, surprise QBs who saved many SuperFlex rosters! Joe Flacco, D'Andre Swift, Terry McLaurin and many others discussed on this episode! Join Borg, Betz, and a Baller each week to take your Dynasty fantasy football game to the next level and dominate your league -- Fantasy Football Podcast for December 27th, 2023.

 

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Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets and a baller.

Welcome in. It's Wednesday, December twenty seventh. Here host Christmas on the Faces Footballers Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host Kyborganoni and I'm joined by Matthew Betts and Jason Moore.

Howdy howdy, well hello. How was your Christmas? Everybody?

It was great, man, it was great. Exhausting but fun.

How was yours eventful? I had a very full Christmas weekend and still going, still going love that.

I mean. I got some slippers as usual, oh dad slippers at this age, new slippers once a year.

Yeah.

I had an eventful week as well. I think Jason and I messaged a couple times, but you know, just kids being kids, getting hurt, getting injured. So but Bets, yours was super short because your kids are so young that Christmas started at whatever time in the morning and then it was just done. Right.

We were done about nine thirty am in my house. Yes, I have eighteen month old twins, so they don't really get it. Their favorite gifts quote unquote that we got again, I know, right, come on, well, don't you know what you're supposed to do. We got them, you know, just in their stockings, like little snacks select to eat and stuff like that, and then we got them actual gifts, which they didn't really care at all about. And all they wanted to do was hold their little patches that they got that they eat. So we could have gotten them two dollars gifts and returned to everything else and they would have been just as happy. So you're living to learn. But it was a fun day as our first, like real Christmas, so it was good man.

Yeah, Jason, you had those early days when you had twins with Christmas and it was probably way simpler.

Uh no, No, we did it up. I mean, you know, at that point, you don't know if you're gonna have more, and every Christmas is the first new, big experience, so you spend and you build and you wrap and you do everything, even though it's all worthless. It's like when you take a little baby to Disneyland, which you know it does not you should not do that, but no one could stop you from doing that. You think it's really special for that baby who will not know it and will not remember it.

I feel like there's so much a parenting that we could just fast track. But part of the process is, you know, just spending money on stuff that you'll forget you even had a week later. Yeah, and her kids will forget like half of the toys I bring out of the closet. Sometime they're like, I forgot I had this, And so maybe that's something I need to learn, is just wait, hide stuff, bring it out and it feels like they're new toys all over again.

Absolutely wrap it again next year.

Like this sounds oddly familiar, Dad, but I really like this toy. We are glad that you are with us. It is our last episode of twenty twenty three for this Dynasty episode, our Dynasty podcast. And then as we turn the page in twenty twenty four, we're gonna start talking about prospects, and I'm pretty stoked. It's a pretty great draft class. We're gonna start building the Dynasty Pass, going through all of those start the scouting process. I mean it to be time.

To be clear. We are not going away. It's just the calendar is changing. We'll be here next Wednesday and the next Wednesday and the next Wednesday forever.

Just we don't go away. So uh, yes, we got a lot of good stuff coming up for twenty twenty four, and I thought it would just be a good time to say that. If you want to go to foot Clan vot vote dot com, you can vote on a couple of our podcasts that are up for awards. And that's not something I've been able to say before, but selfishly, bets and I the DFS and Betting podcast is up for an award too, right.

Who would have thought? They said it couldn't be done, But here we are, man, here we are. So yes, what is the group that's putting on the awards?

I forgo? What it is?

Sports sports podcasts?

Okay, that seems very simple.

It's very simple.

Awards to it us and some other main show that maybe you guys have heard of. It's called The Fantas Footballers and Andy, Mike and Jason, you know, literally want to prop them up. They've never won anything before. So if you guys could please just make their dreams come true, you know they would really appreciate it.

I think that's what Jason needs this holiday season. Like there's there's awards. They just don't have enough. They don't You guys don't have any around the office.

Any No it's never enough, and I think we deserve it.

Maybe maybe you do. I have a quick question for us, So on this episode, we're gonna be talking about Dynasty sinker swim. That's what I've kind of set up this episode for a lot of them are veterans that I think people are at the end of their season. You've probably got a turd over the last month and you're figuring out what do I do over the offseason? When is the best time to trade a player to acquire a player. So we'll talk through some of the toughest situations in Dynasty. But I have a quick question for us and has to do with superflex leagues. I'm curious because this one comes in from j Stoop forty nine and the question is with guys like Baker and Flacco He also named Jake Browning Nick Mullins emerging as late season boosts, do you guys have any takeaways for Dynasty superflex leagues because these guys have emerged from nowhere to maybe even not even on a roster, which is rare to say in a super flex league that, like, I mean, Joe Flacco should have been sitting on your wire right like he was at home on the couch. So do you guys have any take aways? It's more like strategy base or take home for the future in super flex leagues because we've seen a lot of these guys emerge out of nowhere.

Yeah, I mean, I'm in a dynasty. It's kind of a dynasty basketball. But I'm in a championship right now, and I don't think I would be there if it wasn't for signing Joe Flacco off the waivers in a super flex. He's been phenomenal and helped score a lot of points over the last month to push me over the limit. And I am usually in my super flex leagues still more of the late round quarterback drafter. You know, I might if there's the ability in the first to grab one of the studs. If this is a startup draft, I'm going to grab one of the studs if I'm not there, If I'm not in those first you know, handful of picks. Then oftentimes I play with fire and load my roster up with running backs and wide receivers, try to be better than everyone else. And part of the reason for that in super flex leagues is because you can actually find guys off the waiver. Obviously you would rather have a Jalen Hurts than a Jake Browning. But these guys every single year exist. This isn't a one off. Twenty twenty three isn't like, oh my gosh, can you believe that there's these quarterbacks that you wouldn't have? You know that we're on dynasty waivers to start the year. You know, I think that you can kind of bank on having enough people out there in these leagues and these super flex dynasties where I've got my team loaded up on my rosters and superflex are loaded on mediocre bench level quarterbacks. I'm basically streaming off of my roster, you know, And I think that that's a viable way to play in a dynasty superflex.

We've seen fifty eight different starting quarterbacks this year in the NFL. That's like way over the top. I mean, you've seen teams like the Vikings, they've had to go through four already, and they're already talking as of this recording that hey, maybe we'll go back to Jaron Hall, who barely had a chance. So you're seeing all this influx are different. And the stat we always give is every year you are going to bank on at least forty different quarterbacks giving you a top twelve performance. It's only thirty two teams, so we're seeing an influx this year between injuries ineffective play, and I love seeing guys that come in like Nick Mallins was a disastrous past week. Nick Mallins was also awesome for fantasy because he just kept throwing. And Jason, you've mentioned this way too many times, but like we almost like interceptions. When you have quarterbacks that just go for it, their yards per attempts up. So the opportunity for guys like this to step in and say I'm not just gonna be a game manager, I'm gonna actually go for it has been incredible this year.

It's been really interesting to see the quarterback play just in general on the NFL. But I think kind of, and Jason was talking, I was thinking to myself, like it sounds a lot like you know, in redraft circles or in best ball leagues, like people often do an anchor running back strategy where you take a McCaffrey or you know someone in the first round and you just kind of wait on the middle options and then get late round guys, and like if you have a Hurtz. You know, maybe not this year Mahomes, but historically Mahomes, Josh Allen, those just elite options at the top the quarterback twos. We've talked about this just in startup strategies, you know, in this offseason as well. They get inflated in terms of their perceived value. But as we're seeing, like Jason said, year every year and this year, these kind of middling options don't a change your score enough to be meaningful to help you win, and B they're at risk of losing their job. And that's kind of what we were talking about in the off season, was just the perceived value of like I have a locked and starter for the next year or two years now, you don't. Mac Jones is not starting, right Desmon Ritter is not starting, So you lose those options instantly. And that's why building up your strength at running back, wide receiver, and tight end. I'm not forcing the QB two issue to me, is the optimal way to play super flex.

Yeah, what was the stat I think we said, like a third of the league almost turns over year to year from who's the starting quarterback in Week one to the next year, So I think in Superflex, just be open to the fact that you can win with different quarterback combinations. I'm in a league where I'm rebuilding, and I was like, okay, so what is the championship matchup? Looks like they're two really good teams. One team has Gino and Jared Goff, which is not anything special, and the other one, you know, it's like Russell Wilson and Baker Mayfield. It's like, okay, well it's not great, but those quarterbacks have stayed alive the entire Russell has been I feel like QB fourteen every single week. Nothing special, but nothing that's bombed your team. And they have a bunch of other studs, So you can win with so many different combinations. And I like that approach. If you're in a startup, take a stud and then take a shot gun appront approach, knowing that you probably need three or four guys that you need to And then here's my last question. When these guys could be available on your wire, is it better just to assume that they could be valuable rather than write them off? Because I look at these guys sometimes in Dynasty wires and I'm like, I know who you know? Joe Flacco is why would I take a chance on this guy or Jake Browning. This guy's been a backup. His first game was terrible. I feel like it's easier for me to make up my mind about backup quarterbacks than being open to the fact that maybe they could be helpful.

Always pick them up, Always pick them up. I mean, that's my rule. They you know, they can prove to be drop worthy, that's fine, but there's no reason to have a starting quarterback in a super flex league that is on the wire and they won't be. They'll be picked up by someone, so it should be you.

I guess I'm I'm kind of slow the week before the pickup to even just like spin my fa not just in the off season or not just in Dynasty. I just feel like there's been so much turnover, Like even the Vikings, I've tried to guess three times who they're starting quarterback was and I was wrong over and over again.

Yeah, they've been trying to figure it out too, and they can't unfortunately. But like Jason was saying, you you should pick them up because if you're not going to, someone else will, and if you have them quarterbacks in Super flex you know, are valued, people want them, people to need them. And worst case scenario is you have I guess best case scenario is you have two or three legit options and you just have a trade piece on your roster. Yet you're getting them a second forum I'm stretch that you wouldn't have otherwise had, right, So yeah, you should definitely be picking them up.

I'm looking at my roster right now, that's in the championship. It's a it's super flex league. Let me name you my quarterbacks. I got nine of them on my roster. I got Kyler and then Flacco, Jamis Winston, Trevor Simeon, Jared Stidham, Zach Wilson, brock Per, Hindon Hooker, and Will Levis. I mean, you just you could shotgun this and and at one point brock Perty was just another pointless name, you know, and then all of a sudden super valuable. And when you've got guys like Jameis Winston that you know, you're gonna have some backups on your roster for sure that aren't playing. But as soon as they become starters, which you know from the wire, go get them.

Baker's the name from this list. And this question that we've talked about a little bit recently. It's like, Okay, well, it seems like they want to work out something. They're probably gonna win the division. We've got to figure out with Mike Evans. But it would not shock me if a year from now we're talking about Baker Mayfield and going, yeah, we kind of knew he wasn't an NFL quarterback, like as starting NFL quarterback too long. So it's like, you hold this with an open hand when you get gold from nowhere, like Baker could have been out of the league or at least, like, you know, just a backup nowhere, So just hold it with an open hand. I'm looking at some of these guys and I'm like, a year from now, let me ask this question, will we be talking about Joe Flacco.

No? No, I think a year from now, Joe Flacco will not be playing football.

I mean, after he wins the Super Bowl, he just retires.

That's your thought. Oh man, nothing on this planet for football would make me happier than Joe Flacco being the starting quarterback for the Super Bowl champion Cleveland Browns, because if that were to happen, oh goodness, good latious. You cannot possibly go away from him. You can't say thank you for your service. You won a super Bowl. Now we've got to go to Deshaun Watson. That just would make me so happy, but won't happen.

It has nineteen nineties Disney movie like written all over it, like guy off the couch, comes out of nowhere, rescues the team.

Yeah.

I know, Bets and I were talking earlier on DFS and Betting podcast that, like Joe Flacco is the story right now, and it's making us forget that Tommy DeVito's was even in the league or will be in the league next year, out of like the public consciousness of like this is what everyone cares about now. So yeah, love it. Love it with Joe Flacco. Let's move on.

Splash.

That is another that's a really old drop, really really old Jason that goes back to twenty fifteen. I don't know if we've used that drop since then.

I didn't. I am pretty confident I've never heard that, including twenty fifteen when it was on my show.

Yeah, so I thought it would be it would work for what we're calling dynasty sink or Swim. We're going to list some players and have some discussions talking about the value of these players, maybe going in depth with hey, maybe here's the reason why over the last you know, six to seven games, why it's not gone so well, and then kind of discussed is this a sinking player or a player that you're willing to swim with and actually put in the work so sink or not saying cut this player. We're not saying this player is bad or they're never gonna be good again. We're trying to say in Dynasty, is is this a sinking asset? And that is one of the worst things in Dynasty because you can't just refresh and go to the next year. You're actually holding onto a player that used to have a ton of value and then all of a sudden they're sinking to the bottom of the ocean like a turd. It's just you can't escape, you can't go any further. But with swim, what I want to say is you got to put in some work, all right, It's not just a simple this player is old. We got to move on. If you put in the work in Dynasty, you can still extract value for another year. You can still figure out what's a good trading option. Like last year, let's let's go with you know, Dalvin Cook. He would have been a candidate that if you would have towards the end of the season said, I think this guy's a sinking asset. I need to trade before the deadline. Sweet, you probably got it. You maybe got it first because he was still a top ten running back in terms of what he did on the field. And then now sudden bets. If I wanted to offer you Dalvin Cook, would you give me anything in return?

I would give you a fifth round rookie pick.

No, I would.

I don't even know if I would do that. He's basically out of the league at this point, and I can't believe the Jets paid him what they did. But yes, roster.

Someone out there last year had to trade Dalvin for a first and Raheem Moster, you know what I mean. Yeah, something ridiculous, Oh mercy.

There's also players that are hitting a quote age range. We've talked about old veteran players here where you can easily write them off and just say they're old, they're done. So like Amari Cooper was a top ten wide receiver last year, but if you look at the last month of the year with Deshaun Watson. It wasn't good, right, you remember how bad Watson was. It could have been a player that you just cut bait with, and then you probably could have cut bait with Amari Cooper what like a month or two ago and just said, Okay, well this offensive toast, and now all of a sudden, he's a league winner. So it is wild the fluctuations in value for different players in Dynasty. But I want to open up this conversation and talk about the Chiefs because there's a lot of questions to ask. There's also a lot of overreaction that probably doesn't need to happen. I mean, this is still Patrick Mahomes who's twenty eight years old, and in Dynasty, what we're talking here, you don't have to panic and just say he's done. He's not good anymore, he's not elite. He's a bad team. When we've talked last week, Mike mentioned, man, this guy's gonna get some weapons soon. So, Betts, I've heard you say this before, and I think it's really important to explain this again to people. But things are never as bad or as good as they seem in fantasy football. So with Mahomes and the Chiefs, can you kind of use that adage as kind of a way to frame this team.

I think it'd applies to the NFL too, right, I mean, I mean reference this with the Raiders two weeks ago. When they got shot out against the Vikings. Everyone was asking you O'Connell at the podium, are you the guy for the job? Four days later they put up sixty three points. Everyone's, you know, throwing a party. No one cares about what just happened two weeks ago. Yeah, of course things are number as good or as bad as they might seem. But this, you know, for Mahomes and Kelsey, this, I think game from Christmas really is what Michael was talking about last week. And it's like, when you don't have the dudes around Mahomes, and yes, he's Mahomes, he can overcome it, you know, more than half the time. But when he doesn't overcome the issues as far as the skill guys go, you can see where the floor really is. And you know, that game specifically was a lot of just silly fumbles and defensive touchdowns and stuff like that. But he's running for his life back there and trying to create stuff on his own. And you know, with Rishie Rice, he's been good, he's been a really good story, a good second round pick obviously had a hit for them. But beyond that and Kelsey, you know, aging they don't have other guys. So that's the issue that we were talking about. Yes, Mahomes is still gonna be great. No, I'm not panicked on Mahomes. He will still have incredible fantasy days ahead. But with the current state of the team, we're seeing that you don't really have a locked in top five fantasy option every single week like he used to. And you know, thinking about that, it's like, man, do we really just take for granted a Chiefs offense with Mahomes, Kelsey and Tyreek hill On in the field together for all those years. So definitely things have changed quite a bit.

I think we used to just pencil Mahomes in and say he's superman, he will figure it out. And the problem with that just locking in that train of thought is that it doesn't leave room to the fact that he will have human moments. And that's okay, Like we've seen that with tons of quarterbacks who are all timers. I mean, well, like if you look back like Brady had seasons where you go, okay, is he is he off?

The next year in twenty eleven, Tom Brady was the quarterback four was great for fantasy. The next year was the quarterback three was great for fantasy. Then the next year he was a quarterback thirteen and it seemed like, oh, things are slowing down. And then the next the following years after that, he was a top ten guy. And then he was the eighteenth quarterback the year after that, and then he was the third quarterback the year after that, and then he was the fourteenth. I mean, there are what you need to know, and what you already know is the Patrick Mahomes is great. That's it. There's gonna be down years. This will be one of them. Next year could be another one. Back to back. I mean, I don't think it's a zero percent chance that Travis Kelce retires this offseason. We were talking about that in the studio today. I feel like he you know, he could play another five years for all I know, but I think he could walk away. I mean, you've heard interviews of him talking about how he thinks about retirement all the time, and every single game that I'm watching when I see him just take a massive hit. I'm like, as one hit closer to retirement, you know he doesn't need the game anymore. But I say all that to say, like Mahomes in his career for fantasy in Dynasty has been a pretty untouchable asset. The only time that you're able to acquire someone like that is when they have down moments. You know, if Travis Kelcey retires this offseason, after Mahomes finishes this season, you know, as a as a low end quarterback, one, to me, that's the time to go get him. And it's not even to say that next year is going to be great. It's just gonna say, now you have the chance to get an all time quarterback.

Have you guys seen I mean with the rumors of retirement, it's like he could go out with his brother the exact same time. You'll be able to say, you know, let's do this. So I think it's a really good point with Mahomes and just seeing a range of outcomes. I think we've never really like considered the low end at all, Like not just saying he's done or he's not good, he's not good for fantasy, but just that year to year for quarterbacks, there is a low end outcome and it's called TD rate like that. That's one of the biggest things that if you're not getting these massive spike years, like you know, you're gonna have a low low season. He also has zero rushing touchdowns this year, so that's not something that we usually would see. You know, you add in two or three or whatever. That's part of it. But I looked up this stat and I thought it was really telling of what the offense is and maybe you guys could color in the details of you know how much you guys love mvs and Justin Wattson all the rest of the guys, but Mahomes this year he is throwing to a non first read thirty four percent of the time. This is from Arjen men On on Twitter. But that's the highest of his entire career. And it makes sense when you look at the offense and you see like he's having to think, whatever this play is, I'm going to improv, and the improv we're always used to with Mahomes just not working out the same. So I'm just I worry sometimes with players that we just kind of assume like they have a superhuman trait, if it's just gone like Russell Wilson was always that player that offscript, you're just you are unbelievable. And there's a certain point in somebody's career, not saying it's there for Mahomes, but there's a certain point where it's just an outlier thing that isn't going to happen every single year. So I don't know, do you guys have any thoughts on just that that we're banking on every single time we look at him and play on a field.

I think that's what the Chiefs are banking on currently, right, They're like, we know we don't have the guys, but like we're hoping you can just you know, accommodate for it and be Superman on every play. And that's where the chief shortcoming is is when Mahomes can't be Superman. Someone misses a block, he's under pressure, whatever, his receivers aren't open, he's taking off like crazy, he's running more than he has in his NFL career ever because he has to be Superman. So if that thing, if those things start to fall apart a little bit and you have that floor, you know, that's really what we're seeing. I think with the Chiefs offense is just that they don't have the dudes to support him. So we'll see what happens. But I think just turn the conversation back to Kelsey. We didn't really put a bow on it for him, like is he a sinking asset or do you have a couple more years. I know we've mentioned the retirement stuff, but I was looking at while you were talking Kyle, some of his just advanced stuff as far as like has averaged up, the target has gone down in six straight years. His yards rout run right now is going to be the lowest since twenty sixteen, So like there's kind of some warning signs of like is this the end? And maybe next year he comes back and catches nine touchdowns and because of the state of the tight end position, he's still good. But like, I don't know, I feel like he's a tricky piece because when you have him, you have this perceived you know, upside. But there's a lot of really good young tight ends that maybe you don't have that tight end one in a season anymore.

Jason. You have him in Dynasty, you also have Trade McBride in that league, So it's kind of a But if let's just say you didn't have Train McBride, what would you be doing with Travis Kelcey right now? And you just mentioned like the range of outcomes is he's retired and I cannot trade this player for anything.

Yeah, that's in the range of outcomes. You know, it's never as good as it seems, never as bad as it seems, unless it's that, you know, it's as bad as it seems. If he retires, it's a zero. It's done, you know. And what's the worst is that not only well he scored you zero points, but he will stay on your roster, you know what I mean. Like he's one of those very very rare guys that will be retired and not on the waiver wire. In Fantasy dynasty leagues, you know, you're you're gonna wait for Gronk for the comeback, for the Oh he's gonna itch next year and come and dominate, And so he'd be a hard ass. I I mean, I already know right now, like we are. When this offseason hits and trading is opened back up, we're gonna see what we can get for Kelsey. We're gonna need to and and there is value there This is one of those where you've got to call your shot. If you think he's going to play for a couple more seasons, he's worth anything. I mean, you know, even this year, while we're disappointed the last few weeks he slowed down, he has him been great. He's a super valuable fantasy asset at a very difficult position. So I think you're not wrong to try and call your shot and trade for him if you think he's gonna play a while. I will be doing the opposite. I will be selling Travis Kelcey, trying to squeeze as much as I can out get the best deal I can and capitalize because to me, Mahomes is obviously a swim and Kelsey is a sink.

And you know what, we still have the playoffs. We know this team could easily turn it on in the AFC and make some noise and maybe that'll boost his value. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we're back, and you know what, I got to ask this question because we finished Mahomes, we talked about Kelsey last week. Mike kind of went through the tight end rankings of like, hey, just based on gut alone, this is where I would rank these players, but I wanted to get a feel of where we would put Mahomes just as a practical exercise. Right now, you know, we don't We're not going through real rankings and saying this is going to be what it is. But Mahomes is kind of the unquestioned guy in Dynasty, uh one on one in Superflex, that's where he was. So would you say that you are putting Allen and Hurts above him based on just the unpredictability of Kelsey and question mark of whatever they add. So where where would you put Mahomes in your super Flex Dynasty startup rankings?

I mean you could still argue. I think you could argue for him as the top guy if you wanted to make the argument, I think I would have Hurts and or Allen. Well, it probably Hurts actually above him. I'm not sure about Josh Allen. But with Hurts, the reason is I know he's tied to a J. Brown and about the Smith, at least a J. Brown for a couple more years to mat the Smith. They'll pick up his first fifth year option in two years?

Is that Krek Kyle?

I think no.

This offseason they have to make the decision.

Which they will, so he'll he'll have those guys for another couple of years and it we'll see what they do with the Tousch push as far as the NFL ruling, But as long as that's in play for another year or two, depending on what happens, like you get those goal line opportunities as well. So I think just those factors would kind of give me the slight edge on Hurts over Josh Allen, who has question marks with Diggs, and then Pat mahomes fos question marks with Travis Kelce. Otherwise, you can make any argument you want for those guys.

Wait aush push. I just want to say, like, do you think that he just starts going butt first and then just they have to change the rules for that. Does that change anything?

I really hope that if they do outlaw the tush push, which I hope they do not, but should they, I really hope they find a way to legally beat the system again. You know, it's like, oh, they say you can't have two guys lined up behind and push on this player, and they just find some way to skirt the rules or break the system. I just you know, I like when it someone can come up with something that's unstoppable. I really enjoy it. Now I've got Jalen Hurts everywhere. He was a my guy for me last year. I drafted him, you know, and I'm pretty much all my Dynasty leagues because I believed in the talent when people were saying he was a bad quarterback. And so I'm biased because I've had all these rushing touchdowns and I love them. But at the same time, it's really on brand for me. I love a superpower that can't be stopped. I want a beat down, and so I hope it doesn't go away. I really really do. Hurts is the number one Dynasty quarterback to me. I don't think that's really easy to debate that he's not for me. It would go Hurts Alan Mahomes I.

So I have Josh Allen and I've enjoyed the ride for a while. So it's hard for me. I mean, it's the same thing you were saying, Jason, like for the last couple of years, if you've had these two players in your team, like gosh, it's been locked in elite quarterback one play over and over. But yes, Hurts is two years younger and with Josh Allen, we do have some question marks, which leads me into my next player. It's Stefan Diggs. He is the Sinker swim player that a lot of people are making their minds up this offseason. I think people would argue the Bills are trying to figure out Stefan Diggs is trying to figure out if I want to be a part of the team. But he's thirty years old. This is his ninth year in the NFL, and I don't know if you guys have seen his contract, but he is currently under contract for four more years with this team. He still has over forty million guaranteed left on his contract, so the money's gonna show up somehow, some way. Before we get into his performance and the way this team has changed, do you I mean, do you guys have any read on just the vibes of what this team thinks. And because he is a Voldel player, he's always been that way, but now it's like, it wouldn't shock me if he was traded. It wouldn't shock me if he wants to be on the team next week.

Oh man, I don't think there's any way you can get a read on the human being situation of Stefan Diggs with any anybody, You've got a lot of history of crazy DIVA wide receivers getting their way out of teams and situations where they should have stayed. That's like the only thing you can kind of look to here to say, maybe he demands a trade, and if he does, I think the team would trade him. You know, but he's gonna be playing football for a while with his contract, and you know, he is at his lowest value he's ever had right now, because he's obviously at his oldest and he's had about two months of really bad performances. I can find a way to excuse almost every single one of those performances, and eventually I find myself going, man, when you make this many excuses, maybe it's not the excuses, Maybe it's the man. I feel like I keep making excuses. But I am currently, as of this recording, still in the place where I don't think he's lost it. Really I don't. I think Stefon Diggs is great. I think he will be very good for Fantasy. It's just it's starting to it's starting to wear on you to keep saying that and feel like Oh Man, you're wrong. You're wrong, You're wrong. Sometimes you got to stick to your guns on what you believe and see it through to the other side. I mean, we'll have an answer to see if he if he gets it back together, or if this is the new normal for Stefan Diggs. But Josh Allen is great. Stefan Diggs has looked good on his underperforming numbers, and as far as what the future holds, there is just no way to predict. The only thing you can look at is he's under contract. The situation should be good going forward. Are you more worried than me? Either of you? If you have Digs? Are you are you actively trying this offseason to get something for him? Because usually in general, when you've got a player this age, I am you know when you know, we talked about that coming into this season. Davante Adams was on fire, was amazing, was, you know, a top three wide receiver, and I'm actively trying to trade him away for a young stud and a first So but where are you at with Diggs? Yeah?

I think I kind of fall in that line as well. Where similar to the Devons Adams thing where it's like man if it's not this year. Maybe it's next year, but it's coming pretty quickly, and I think that's kind of concerning for me on the situation is the Bills are winning by not force feeding him the ball. Like they've got a balanced rushing attack, which has been great. They did not have that at all last year and it was okay, Josh Allen save us and where Steffan Diggs and occasionally wears Gabe Davis. But now they have antilar pieces stepping up out of the backfield. They've got Dunkin Kaid, talented rookie Gave Davis literally will come out of nowhere for a huge game, so they don't have to force feed him the rock like they did last year. And you're seeing that drop off in its production, but they're winning. So it's like, if you're the Bills franchise, you do some reflection, You're like, man, this has been really good for our offense. I don't think we have to keep doing what we used to do. And so that's my concern with Steph Diggs. Now we have a huge sample of Digs being awesome in the NFL and it's only been what five or six weeks. Kind of has this change has happened, so I don't want to get too stuck on a small sample. I do think we'll have another couple of years that are very productive, whether it's with Buffalo or another team. So my fear is that the Bills keep doing what they're doing. Diggs has some mediocres box scores, and then the off season his perceived value is just not enough that you're almost like, Okay, well, I guess I'll just hold him and hope for the best. So that's kind of where I'm at with Diggs. If someone's willing to pay, you know, top market dollar for him, sure, but I just don't think that that's going to be happening this offseason.

Right now, so you probably don't have a trade window open, but as we get to the off season, things open up. After the super Bowl, it is possible that his value does see a boon. Now with Joe Brady becoming the oc their pastor expectation has dropped a ton. They're bottom seven since Week twelve, but his targets share is still there thirty two twenty nine percent targets pro out run. It's kind of like how you mentioned Jason, Like you can look at box scores and just say, oh, he's done. But he's still slaying in the areas that he's always been good. In the intermediate area, this year he's awesome. He's tied for the league league with six receiving touchdowns in that eleven to nineteen yard area that we care about a lot, and Josh Allen is one of the best in the league. The area that has dropped off is the deep place, and you see that with a lot of aging wide receivers. It's just like you don't have the same speed anymore. They're not throwing to you as much there. He's never going to be a yat guy. He's pretty small. So on the year, just to give some numbers, he has twenty deep targets. He's caught five of them, only one of them is a contested catch, and they've also had three interceptions, so those deep balls have not gone so well. Since Joe Brady took over, he has six targets of twenty plus eight yards and zero receptions, so the keep balls being taken away. I still think he's fine. I just for a dynasty manager, which I am. I feel like right now if I were to trade him, I would not get fully what I want. There is an ounce where I still can see a wide receiver one season next year and I can hold on. I also think if he's good enough and my team stinks, I could trade him in season for even more. So it's like there's like a tension of when do I trade him? And is he good enough? But Jason laid it out dynasty wide receivers when they hit age thirty, it's not good. When they hit age thirty one. We mentioned before the season Julio Jones dropped off a cliff. That's when you traded him. Jason was between that age. I think thirty season, AJ Green, same thing DeAndre Hopkins. We're seeing with DeVante Adams, and I think we're gonna see it with dig. So the window was probably six weeks ago.

Well, Kyle Ye, you're you're the one that has Digs. Are you planning to try to move in this offseason?

I couldn't move because I was trying to compete and then I got kicked out of the playoff.

I don't know this This coming off season.

We're we're trying to decide because we have an Alan Diggs stack and we don't want to break it. Up, but we also recognize that our window is closed in a lot of aspects. But we do have George Pickens. Just throw that in there one game, one game that doesn't matter at all. So yeah, so I'll give you some names. Would you guys rather have Stefan Diggs or the one oh seven in the upcoming rookie draft?

Diggs?

You know, truthfully, I haven't done a lot of homework yet on this class, so that's tough for me to answer, but I think i'd take him mid first.

It's tough because whoever I'm taking there, if it's in a non super flex league, I'm taking the what would you guys say, fourth best wide receiver, fifth best in probably so it's a am I getting Quinton Johnston? Am I getting Traylon Burr? Like? Those are the kind of names the last couple of years that have been available at that spot. And I could also hit gold and find somebody else there, But it's not a guarantee. A late for mid to late first for a player that.

I don't know.

Would you guys say that Stefan Diggs. Let's say he's not a top ten wide receiver anymore. Does he have at least two years left to be a top twenty to twenty four receiver.

I definitely, yeah, I think so. And I don't believe it's over with him as a top ten wide receiver either.

Okay, all right, I think you guys have talked me into staying the course and then just not winning a championship because that's kind of like been my mo o in that league.

Reason. I want a young, proven commodity, you know what I mean, like Jordan Addison or something like that. You know, I want to know when you're training for a one oh seven, your odds at a complete and utter whiff are just a little too high for me. I want to I want to be able to see the proof on the NFL field that like, oh yeah, this guy, this guy is gonna work. Give me someone young who maybe hasn't broken out all the way yet, but I can be confident in it.

Yeah, well, I think he'll be one. I mean, we'll get information, right, We're gonna get information, hopefully about his status and what the team wants to do. Let's take one more break and we'll be right back. All right, We're gonna talk about a couple more players for sink or swim The first one here is DeAndre Swift, who turns twenty five in two weeks, so he's still pretty young. It's fourth year in the NFL and it'll be a free agent. I was looking up some other running backs. He's younger than Jalen Warren, who feels like he's just got in the league. He's younger than ty Chandler, who I think everybody loves ty Chandler right now. He's younger Najia Harris, but I'm pretty sure everybody is younger than Najia Harrison Dynasty. And then a name that shocked me. He's younger than Remandre Stevenson and Josh Jacobs, so he's super young. If you've had DeAndre Swift in Dynasty, like what a roller coaster ride from where he was coming in as an early second round pick in the NFL to I looked up his the height of his Dynasty ADP guys. At one point he was the RB five and startup drafts, so he was like way up there. And then this past year I could have given you DeAndre Swift and you would have said, I don't want that guy.

Uh.

He was down at RB twenty two, twenty three, twenty four in startups and then this year, I felt like he was a valuable piece that hopefully you got some value out of. So Jeremy and I in the league, we had DeAndre Swift and we held out, and we held out until in the middle of the season a contender wanted him. When we traded Swift for a first twenty twenty four first and Luke Musgrave, and felt like we did pretty good for ourselves.

Yeah, I think that's tell you you made a good trade.

I think you made a fine trade for what your team was and where it's at. I mean, if you look at his future, you can talk about his age all you want, but age is overblown at running back. To me, it's more about contract situation, and you know what's your contract age. He is going to be a free agent, and we don't know where he's gonna play next year, and we don't know, you know, we do know that the Eagles are a great spot for him and that they do not pay for running backs. They're not going to pay big dollars for DeAndre Swift. They that would blow my mind. It won't happen. So either he comes back on a cheap, team friendly deal, or he tries to go out and get the most money he can from any team in the league. And that's my expectation after a good year where he's looked really explosive, I think, and he's got a big enough name where I think he'll get a contract this offseason and then it's just a matter of like where does he go? You know, you had two decent contracts this offseason that I think could be a blueprint for DeAndre Swift in David Montgomery and Miles Sanders. When you go to a good team like the Lions, your fantasy value is pretty good, your scoring opportunities are pretty good. When you go to a terrible team like the Carolina Panthers who have to pay up to have you come to their franchise, Miles Sanders is done and so I could see both types of that being the outcome for DeAndre Swift. So getting a first rounder for him when there's that much question, I think you made a good deal plus buster.

Yeah, I felt pretty good. Bets. You are boots on the ground, You are a local Philly reporter of all things that are Kelly Green. So what is this sentiment of what he's done this year and then I agree with Jason. It's like I hate saying that it's kind of four gun inclusion, but it would shock me if he stayed there in Philadelphia. And then you look at that running back room and it's like, well, I mean, kennth Gaine's got one mired year left and they've got nothing else.

Yeah, I think what's kind of wild about the situation, Like if you go back to week one, remember it was the kind of Gamewell show like Swift was kind of this afterthought and then game well missed week two because of ribs, Swift on Boker's and they said, oh sweet local we have and he really took the job. Now that said, I completely agree with what Jason had mentioned where they're not gonna pay him, and he is a hometown kid. He's from the Philly area, So maybe that he says, I'll take the discount and stay with my hometown team, but it's probably his last chance to get paid. And if I'm him and I have a game against the Giants and then the Cardinals and then the Giants, I'm trying to put everything on tape and go get a contract. So I do think there's a real chance he leaves, especially considering that Philly is not going to pay him what other teams will, and so when you leave, you know a situation where you're playing behind a great offensive line and go somewhere else. Could it get better in theory?

Sure?

Could it get worse? Definitely with Miles Sanders. The only reason I say it could get better is because he doesn't have a goal line role because Jalen Hurst just takes everything. So that's really to me where it goes. But I think the most likely scenario is that this is going to be a downgrade moving forward, and then he's just another year older, another year older, and slowly the value drops off.

I think we wouldn't argue if he's talented enough. It's the usage that it's hard to figure out. Like before this past week against the Giants, where you know he had a good game on the ground, took him a while, like in the first half he's doing nothing and then kind of explode in the second half. I mean the Eagles lost three straight. He was the RB twenty seven, forty forty seven and twenty eight in over a month span. Guys, he had twelve receiving yards total. So I think what we we want was Swift, and what we've always want him to be is what Jamiir Gibbs was like, just this explosive back that's being used all over the field and not taken out on certain drives. So, yeah, he needs to find a role where he gets more than five rushing touchdowns. I think that could happen at you know, being only twenty five years old, But anything more than a two year contract I think would shock me. And I haven't really done free agency scouting just yet, but I mean, who's gonna pay this guy? I mean, he's gonna want more than ten million dollars and I don't know if he's worth.

It, no, which means it's gonna be a bad team, you know what I mean, Like the who pays for a dumb team, who pays more than you should for a position you shouldn't pay a lot to poorly run franchises, And so I don't see an upgrade possible for Swift. Swift is getting a downgrade this offseason.

Man's that's just a great thought exercise. Just look around the league and ask yourself who's done dumb things in the past and who could do the same dumb things now? If Dave Gettleman was there with the Giants and Saquon moving on, I could say, oh cool, they'll probably pay a bunch of money. This guy killed us in division. We got to get this guy on our team, but who knows, he'll probably be a Falcon.

No, take that back, take that gross statement out of your mouth. Discuss dude.

They love If Arthur's still there, there's no way he's hitting anyone to take care of some tyler all year.

Yeah, that's a good point. The Browns maybe if if they're worried about Chubbs recovery destination, they know, I'm trying to think of the good destinations from teams that are usually that usually make poor decisions. Like I know the Browns, they're doing great right now. I'm happy for the Browns fans, But you know, this is the organization that just went and gave a giant guaranteed contract to you know. Yeah, and then so I could see them doing that.

I could see the Chargers being like, we won't pay you Austin Eckler. We're gonna pay a guy that's three years younger, and it's just as explosive and screw themselves over even more down the line. It's so hard when you start thinking of teams and what's the logical place and when it comes to running back contracts. We got to see what the market is because there are guys the Saquons that Josh Jacobs that we would say are going to get contracts, and then you know there's the second tier and then there's the Tony Pollard. It's like, I don't know where all of these guys are gonna slot in, but they're there. Actually is a pretty good running back market this year. I just think that people are wisening up. I look last year and the money that was given out. It's like, wait, there was a contract given out to Jamal Williams for multiple years. Like there's just there's some weird contracts from last year for running back. So all right, one more name. This is the name that's pretty near and dear, I think to both of your hearts, you two have been truthers for a while with Terry McLaurin turns Or. He's twenty eight years old, he's been the year at the league for five years and guys, he just got engaged, just did some deep dive.

In So wow, thank you for letting me know that Terry.

His Instagram or what Kyle, Yeah, yeah, well no, I was posted on on X Come on, man, gonna give it to you. That's the place that's gonna give it to you. So he's got looking at his contract. He's got one to two years left, depending on what they do with his dead cap numbers. So here's the thing about McLaurin the offense all that is that McLaurin also has this part that's a human element that when you think of the Commanders and you think of leaders and vocal leaders. He's been the guy and the most well liked player on the Commanders four years. So my question about McLaurin is that you've never really gotten high end production. You've gotten good, but not like great production from he's been wide receiver twenty eight, twenty one, twenty five, fourteen, thirty two. That's a good NFL career, and he got a second contract. But we're entering the years where you look at this player it's gonna be twenty nine this next year and ask yourself, can I get anything else out of him in Dynasty? Is he sinking or swimming? And does he still carry a name for people? Because I think people look at Terry McLaurin and think that's a locked in wide receiver two for my team, when this year it hasn't been at all, Like you can't count on him. Apart from two blow up games, it's been pretty bad. So is McLaurin a player that you are trying to acquire because it's a little cheaper or is there too many unknowns with this team moving forward?

I'm not trying to acquire Terry McLaurin. No, I think you know, he's kind of capped on his upside. You don't see a situation where the quarterback is going to vastly improve or the coaching staff. You know, I would imagine this offseason that they change the coaching staff. That would be my my current guess. And so, but the quarterback is the issue. And Terry McLaurin is okay. But even though you know he's still he always he came in so old, you know the fact that he's only been in the league five years and you know he's gonna be twenty nine. I don't think that there is a massive upgrade coming for him the way that there was for you know, Dj Moore. Situation changed and he finally got out of that, you know, purgatory of quarterback play. I don't know that that happens quick enough for Terry McLaurin, and his name is good. Right now, I think that there's a legit chance that Brissette takes over the rest of the season. We don't know as of this recording. They have refused to name a starter for this upcoming matchup against San Francisco. But what we have seen from Brissett is that he he certainly likes Terry McLaurin and targets him more than Howell. And so if he finishes the season strong, I think his name recognition carries enough weight to be what you said, Kyle, where the other people in the league will say, Okay, this is like a solid wide receiver two that I can kind of just rely on as a weekly starter and you can get something for that. And I don't know that he is actually someone you can rely on as a as a weekly starter. Certainly not someone you should rely on as a weekly starter. Right now, only forty one percent of his games are hitting the ten and a half point half PPR benchmark that we look for for wide receivers.

Yeah, and I'll just speak to someone who has Terry in a couple of leagues, one where I was kind of on the fringe and now needed to make a push.

You're going to this person.

I'm speaking to this person, which is myself. All right, a mirror and continue listen here, bets, I tried to upgrade from mclaur into a more proven guy or some of that least had more upside, and like just in my leagues where that was the case, like no one really wanted him. So I feel like the value, I know, because he's great, but the reality is the situation is what it is, and I think he wants to be in Washington. Obviously he got the deal, Like you said, he's kind of be in the face of the franchise when they went through some pretty rough times as far as the public perception of them. So like, I think he likes that he's there, and obviously they like him. But you know, you've got the current situation as is or and I know you just posted this Kuyle like the current top ten picks of the upcoming NFL draft. Like Jason has mentioned, I think there's a large amount of us that agree, like they want how to be the guy but like, is he actually the guy if they're on the clock and they have the choice to take a guy that they value as a rookie, Like, is Terry now playing with a rookie quarterback? And you know what that does usually, So there's a lot of moving parts here, and I think when the dust settles, you just kind of have to accept, like Terry probably just is who he is, which is like a flex player for your roster at this point, a wide receiver three most likely for your dynasty team, which is fine, but not gonna win you your league.

Washington holds the third pick, Arizona's at two, which I'm sure you're happy about that, Jason. So it's a valuable pick because what you're looking at, and I think most people would say, is, oh, well, it's probably Marvin Harrison in two quarterbacks, or it's Marvin Harrison a quarterback and an offensive lineman. We're still really early in the draft season. But if they were to take a quarterback, do you think that boosts his value in people's mind? Like if it's Drake, if it's Drake may or if it's Caleb Williams, who's at least exciting a name. This is more like selling value. Do you think that you can get a late first for Terry or an early second? Is that where the line is.

I think you can get a second, an early second. I don't believe that a high end, big name rookie quarterback will bump Terry up. Most fantasy managers are wise enough now to be aware of what happens when when a rookie quarterback comes in. It's very very rare that a rookie quarterback is going to come in and support a high end wide receiving option. Obviously, you could try to talk about c J. Stroud and be like, a, look, maybe this is gonna be his CJ. Stroud and mclaurin's just needed this guy. This will be the best quarterback that he's ever played with. You can have that narrative, but I think most people know that that's not how it works out usually almost ever. I mean, rookie quarterbacks, they're not usually good. I mean, you got Herbert, you got Stroud. I feel like that is pretty much the end of the list.

Yeah, Baker was good for his year.

Yeah, but did he support like Baker was good that year, did he support a great wide receiver? No? I mean it just CJ. Stroud. Hopefully he can can move unwise fantasy managers and maybe you can get a first for him. But I would be I would be very very happy to get a first for Terry McLaurin.

I've never been a Terry Truther, but I think just selfishly, because he's so likable as a person. He's like, well, he was like a leader. I want him to go somewhere where he's like a valuable veteran that can like he could be a part of a team, be the wide receiver two and the team could make a run like you know, and Kwon Bolden later in his career was like a valuable wide receiver too. Four teams. He was on the Ravens, Like he was a good NFL player that finally had a shot to be with a good team. So it's either like you want him to retire as like mister commander and like be a part of the team in the front office, or you want him to go somewhere and compete with a good team like I don't know, I guess I wouldn't hate if he was a chief, just just somewhere where he's like valuable.

Yeah, it would be nice. If like I would. I would. He's one of the very rare situations where I feel like I would rap. I would like his value more if he was a free agent. I don't like that he's under contract for the Manders for a couple more years.

Yeah, his his dead cap next year is twenty nine million, so it'll be there, all right. I'm gonna throw out this one question with him and then we can wrap up. Would you rather roll the dice with Quinton Johnston in Dynasty or Terry McLaurin.

That is an easy Terry McLaurin for me.

Okay, would you rather roll the dice with Jamison Williams or Terry McLaurin.

Jamison Williams, I think he's going to be involved and integrated into the offense next year, and he is actually talented. I'm not sure Quentin Johnston is.

I was this Terry McLaurin or Quentin Johnston.

He's saying he doesn't think Quentin Johnson's talented. He thinks Tarm mclaurin's.

Downce No, I think I think Jamison. I think Jamison Williams is a talented prospect, whereas I don't think Quinton Johnston is a talented prospect.

Yes, I agree. I think I would still take Terry, but very close.

I think this is the gamble that you take in Dynasty as you have an aging asset that could work in a certain situation for a certain team, and if you want to flip them for a younger player who hasn't quite done it yet but you see glimpses, then that's where you flip it to Jameson Williams. Because I could I could see either side, you know, Terry McLaurin, Jameson Williams. But those are the gambles that you have to take and hopefully you hit gold with a player like that that's gonna do it for this episode. Next week we will get to do a Dynasty Awards episode we walk through and say who the most valuable players of the year have been, and we'll get to see you again next week. Thanks for joining us. Go to foot clan vote dot com you can vote on those podcasts. We'll see you next week.

Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty podcast. If you want to take your Dynasty skills to the next level, check out the Fantasyfootballers dot Com

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