Dynasty Rookie Review: WRs + Quge Mistake - Dynasty Fantasy Football

Published Jan 17, 2024, 10:00 AM

Wide receiver rookie review! On today’s dynasty fantasy football podcast! Borg, Betz, and Jason review the fantasy performances of last year's WR rookies! How high is Puka Nacua’s dynasty trade value? Should dynasty managers trade away Quentin Johnston? Tank Dell, Jordan Addison, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, and many more players discussed! Join Borg, Betz, and a Baller each week to take your Dynasty fantasy football game to the next level and dominate your league -- Fantasy Football Podcast for January 17th, 2024.

 

Connect with The Fantasy Footballers:

 

Love the show? Leave us a review wherever you listen

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets and a Baller.

Welcome in. It's Wednesday, January tenth. We're back Genie Footballer's Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Borganoni, and I am joined by Matthew Betts and Jason Moore.

Well, Hello, hello, Hello.

I'm so happy to be here.

Jason, I feel like it's been forever.

Dude, it has been a while. I well, I've been in Columbia. I was out of the country. So I'm excited to talk dynasty football now that the season is over, the at least the regular season. Uh. It's it's an exciting topic and it's it's much more this is the time, like, this is our time to shine, Dynasty lovers. It's like, okay, we're this is the beginning of the season. Now. As soon as playoffs are over in your fantasy leagues, it's like, okay, baby, it's dynasty time.

Yeah, it's Uh, as you said, it's for lovers, Dynasty lovers. Dynasty is for lovers out there.

I love that dynastylovers dot com. You know, I don't know, I don't know, don't don't visit.

I have not Jeremy's check that Jamie's got a bookmarked. Oh man, you know, and also.

I think the domains available, Guys, I'm on it. I'm on.

Dynastylovers dot com or like dot net, something obscure, something funny it is. It's a reminder to me every single week that this show, it proceeds with a banger of intro music. Like the music on this show gets me going, and I forget about it because we have a bunch of different shows. But man, I'm excited Dynasties for Lovers. We're glad you're with us. We're gonna be talking rookie review and specifically looking at a ton of wide receivers from this past year's class, including of course Pukuinakua. Where does he you know, where does he settle in? What do you do with players like Quentin Johnston who put out a wet fart during the during the season, Guys, I looked at his game logs. He didn't even have one top twenty four performance, not even one. He scored twice.

He how was he supposed to get on the field this year? I mean he was playing behind Mike Williams and Keenan Allen and Josh Palmer. How was he supposed to get opportunities to play this season? Kyle? Oh wait, no, he had. Oh my gosh, he had so much opportunity. Yeah, he's done. Is it's over? Is it too early for me to say it's over like a casket shut over? Because I truly believe that. I don't think there's any chance he's star in this league.

Yeah, let's just start the conversation there. I think Jason came out on fire that one. The hit rate on these guys who do nothing and I mean nothing, I mean nothing in year one with opportunity. You know, it's not like some rookies come out and they kind of are buried on the depth chart for a year and they get an opportunity in year two and they show some stuff like that's a different example. But when a player gets on the field in year one pretty meaningful snaps and does absolutely nothing, I mean you're talking about.

They call that a sky More.

Yes, they call that a sky Moore. They call that a Jillen Reger. They call that a Nikhil Harry at John Ross. So yeah, I mean yeah, you and this is what's tough is because you invested a first round rookie pick in him to have him on your roster. So being like, man, if someone's come, get in for a second, like I don't want to you know, I don't want to sell low or I don't move on, you should move on, and you will probably recoop at least something for him, because I agree when you put this on the field and he played with Justin Herbert, it's not like he played with Bryce Young or something like that this year, Like it's it's bad.

So I'm went when Harbaugh. When Harbaugh signs with the Chargers and there's excitement for the future and the program and the franchise and everything's going to be amazing. You want pieces of this, That's when I would sell him, and I would sell him for a high second without blinking.

Yeah, Betts, you mentioned a bunch of those names of players that flamed out in year one and then we're next to nothing. There is one player on that list I mentioned players that didn't have a top twenty four week as a rookie, Mike Williams on the same team, and it's a very easy comparison to make similar body types, similar games. Mike Williams as a rookie, his yards per out run was point eight one, So it's really really bad. His target share seven and a half percent. I mean, it was a rough year. The next year, do you guys remember what Mike Williams did as a.

Sophomore double digit touchdowns? Right? Yep?

You had ten touchdowns and Williams had injuries. He had back injuries, knee injuries early on.

But I was gonna say that too. In his rookie year he missed almost all a camp because of it was a back injury, and he was in like numbness and tingling like in his legs for most of the year. So it's kind of a specific example.

Yeah, it's it's really hard. It's easy to make that comparison because it's the same team and we're gonna be going through every single player. Kind of talking about the range of outcomes. With Johnston, I've had this bar that I've looked at for rookies, and can they hit point eight yards per out run? Because everybody below that is basically dead gone. Like if they get enough targets, you know, if they get fifty plus targets and their yards per out run is under point eight, they are gone.

What was huge?

Huge is sitting at point eight eight, so he's technically not dead. Let me there's a chance, guys, there's another wide receiver who came to the league, did nothing as a rookie, and I remember thinking this player stinks. I remember talking about him his first two years that Davonte Adams stink.

Yeah, Davante Adams sucked. I mean he was so bad as a rookie, so so bad. So that would be one of those out we're gonna eat your crow. I mean we we did. We we talked about how much Davonte Adams sucked way back in the day. There's a famous quote from Mike. I think the quote was basically just DeVonta Adams sucks exactly and then whoopsie, whoopsie doozles. That being said, everything in fantasy football is just a bet on probability. That's what it is. You're not gonna get everything right. You're gonna get something's extremely wrong, something's extremely right. But what we're trying to do here is always bet on the greater than sixty percent chance of outcomes. And historically speaking, players like Huge don't come back. There are always outliers. There is the Davante Adams or even the Mike Williams. But those are the rare. You know, you're talking about one out of every twelve or thirteen players. You're talking about like an eight percent hit rate.

Yes, and you didn't really see yak plays from him. That was like his mo at TCU. He averaged eight point nine yards after catch perception. That was only at four this year. So like the big plays didn't happen, the deep targets didn't really turn into anything, So it is a lost season. I will get to publish a lot of this data. We'll have the Rookie Review on our site, and if you want to stick with us, our Dynasty Pass is about to come out in what a couple of weeks, you know, Super Scholer Bowl Sunday, Yeah, Super Bowl Sunday. Dynasty Pass for twenty twenty four. Bets. You already started working on walking through every single team their team opportunity. I know you were looking at the Cardinals today and their outlook. Any notes you want to give Jason right now for his Cardinals?

Well, I just reminded myself, like going through the data and kind of looking at things, It's like, man, remember where this team was and then remember when Kyler Murray came back, Like this offense was functional and Kyler was good. He was the quarterback ten and fantasy when you returned, and he wasn't even one hundred percent learning a new systems, Like man, I kind of forget. I think everyone forgets that Kyler can be awesome for fantasy when he's on the field. So obviously you're excited. They got the what fourth overall pick, a potential Marvin Harrison junior landing spot, another first round pick, twelfth, most cap space, So we kind of look at that data. It just gives you a good idea of kind of where the team is at from a top down perspective. Looks at you know, players that are expiring contracts not only this year, but moving forward a year or two in advance to kind of let you know when opportunity is coming for some of these young guys. So really good tool, very fun exercise to do every off season. I'm pretty excited about it.

Yeah, and you can get that at the Fatasfootballers dot Com if you want to eventually be a part of that group. I mean, we're going to be publishing a lot of stuff different rookie mock drafts. We got a rookie mock draft guys coming up at the end of this month, our first one we're going to be talking about on this podcast too. So a lot of good stuff for the Dynasty Pass, but this whole episode, I want to make sure we get in as many rookies. We got huge out of the way, which is just great, wonderful. We can move on from Quge, but let's talk about the rest of these rookies.

Rookie review.

Last week we talked about the quarterbacks and running backs with Mike and I approached this as if this was a checkup, like you're going to the doctor and there's a couple of things you need to get looked at. Okay, for these wide receivers, it's not just their counting stats, it's the context, like based on other rookie wide receivers, here's what they've done, here's where they kind of slide in. And then for Dynasty, what we're doing on this podcast is figuring out who they are moving forward, like where do they sit with other players that we're trying to look at that our veterans. So for Pooka, who we have to talk about first, and we'll kind of go by fantasy order and then get to players like JSN, which that'll be a conversation. But pookup, is it the greatest rookieide receiver season of all time?

Yeah? I mean sometimes you don't have to like have a good debate when there's just facts and there's just like, Okay, well let's see. Did he have the most receptions ever for a rookie? Yeah? But did he have the most receiving yards ever for a rookie? Well? Yeah, Well did he have the most like first downs and important chain moving events for a rookie? Yeah? Yes, yes, he was the best rookie wide receiver of all time. Like, I don't, I don't know what is the debate? Well? Who who? I mean? He dominated? And what's crazy to me is two of his basically three bad games on the season, Week eight and Week nine, were when Matthew Stafford went down and Matthew Stafford missed. Like what if Matthew Stafford played the whole season? He was just unbelievable and I I'm I'm in love with this man. I'm like full it's hair man crush. It's the hair, it's the attitude. It's the the swagger, the play style. He's just like, I love everything about this duty and and the fact that he's a fifth round pick and that the NFL overlooked him because of forty times it's so stupid. I just I'm madly, madly, madly in love. And the whole debate about where does he slot in amongst this year's rookie wide receivers. You know, the the we had the you know, the the great much heralded first round rookie picks in uh Jackson Smith, Nijigbah, you got Jordan Addison, ze Flowers, these great options. Pooka's the best. Pookah is the best, and he should be Like, if you could go back in time, he should have been the number one drafted. And I think the question now is just if you had the one on one, should it have been Bejeon or should it have been Puka.

That's I think at the time, because just because of draft capital and kind of the hit rate on these later on guys, probably still was Bijeon for a lot of people.

For sure. I don't I don't blame anyone at the time. I'm saying now, with the knowledge, you see, if you if you know exactly how this was gonna go, and you can everyone's gonna redraft starting at the one on one, who would you take right? Basically that's just the question could be asked this way in a startup dynasty draft? Are you taking Bijon before Puka or Puka before Bjon in a startup draft?

I'm taking Puka personally because I always lame wide.

Receivers through wide receivers, and.

It's just yeah, if they're close, that's that's my tiebreaker. I'll go with the wide receiver.

I'm with you.

The season was incredible. There's no debate on any of that stuff. Like you said, I think the question and I'm interested to see kind of where you guys have him when they pass comes out on Super Bowl Sunday is like, where is he in startup rings? Like, clearly he's a top twelve overall option, I would say, is he top ten?

Is he top five?

Like you can make the argument, and I definitely would not push back on that. After what we just saw.

I have a list right here that I think gets us somewhat close to getting a value for him. So I think in tier one we've had Chase and Jefferson, and I would put Ceede Lamb there. I think all three of us would probably put Ceedee Lamb there if you want.

To, yeah, he's there. Yeah.

Then I think there's a tier two and I think the comfortable wide receivers that feel a manra yep should be there.

Yep.

I think Garrett Wilson belongs in that tier. I think you can debate. I think Puka would probably be ahead of him for me, and then from there it's a bunch of question marks.

I still, despite the poor end of the season, still think i'd put aj Brown there ahead of Pokah. He's young, He's tied to a good quarterback that has more longevity. You know, you don't know the future of Stafford quite the same as some of those other younger quarterbacks. You know, when you're talking about Jamar Chase, obviously you're connected to Joe Burrow. Matthew Stafford. We know he's coming back this next year. That's already been confirmed by his wife. That's great news. But you know, am and Raw, I would take ahead of him. A J. Brown, I would take ahead of him. But I agree with you, I think I want Poka more than Garrett Wilson more than Chris o'lave. So you're talking about like he's right around wide receiver six seven, somewhere in that range. It's unbelievable.

I think the hardest part with Puka that you know, during the season, you're like, this is a great story. Okay, well, fifth round draft capital, Oh, this is a great story. And then in the back of your mind, I think that's the hardest part to kind of shake for a lot of people. But then you kind of have to get to a certain point where you just ignore draft capital and just say this team knows how to use utilize this player and you can move on from it. Now, other players will talk about them, and I'm still factoring that in my mind, But would you guys say that's one of those data points where you just say, like he's an outlier because the entire NFL missed on him in rookie drafts. Everybody missed on him. Here are players taking ahead of pook and rookie drafts, Kashawan Butte, Cedric Tillman, Deuce Vaughan, Darnell Washington, the tight end for the Steelers, Like all these players were taken ahead of him. Puka in dynasty startups before the season, guys, was taken as the wide receiver seventy five. Okay, So that's the main taste in people's mouths of like, oh, can I really elevate this player to wide receiver five or six and startups? And I'm just saying, like the fact that he was drafted fifth round, one hundred and seventy seventh overall is kind of just a fact now, like just a factoid. It's not really relevant moving forward. Would you guys agree?

I mean, there's for a lot of players, draft capital is gonna matter, and it's gonna matter even after a successful first year. I was this last offseason, I was mister Anti Damian Pierce talking about the fourth round draft capitol. And yes, he had a good season, a good rookie season for a fourth round pick. But I did that whole report on every single one of those fourth round good rookie seasons and how the like eighty percent of them fell off and they weren't involved and they went the route of Jeremy Langford, and so like, there are certain and I would say, most often you're still gonna hold on to that draft capital, but not when you do something historical Pooka is their wide receiver one moving forward, and there's not a lot of debate from that. I mean, this is already one of the best wide receivers in the league. Not only did he crush the wide receiver rookie season and break all those records, but then look at the playoffs when it mattered the most of them. He's breaking rookie playoff records. Like he just was unstoppable. So, yeah, you throw that out. And if you watch the you know, the the circulating report of draft day when McVeigh you know, was talking to the GM and they're they're just they're literally talking about how they clocked this guy at twenty two miles an hour. He's basically one of the fastest guys. You just ran a poor forty time and he and then they're like, we're gonna crush this pic Like that's what they said. Their words were, Oh man, we're grabbing Pooka. We're gonna crush this pick. They knew it before they got him, so even though it was a fifth round draft capital, they knew how important this guy was gonna be to their offense.

Yeah, for sure, I think that's well said. I will say, just as we wrap up on Pooka, I had someone tag me in discord, which, by the way, you can hop in and you know, chat with us and other people. It's it's awesome. Ask me if they would rather or if I would rather have the one oh one this year, which presumably is Marvin Harrison Junior or Puka and the one ten. And I was like, you're hoping Marvison har Marvin Harrison Junior becomes Puka, Like you're hoping he becomes awesome as a rookie. We know Puoka is awesome. I would take that plus the extra first every time. I know Marvin Harrison is an incredible prospect, but guys miss every year. Right It's it's not a proven thing. Pookah has done it. So I just think right now you might still have a small window of like there's some people out there in those leagues that are like, you know, he is a fifth round rookie.

Is this real?

I'm not saying that's what we think. That's just what I think some people think in the world. So you could maybe go get him kind of before it's too late, so to speak.

Yeah, And I don't know if you guys are aware of this. But in the baller's main dynasty league, do you guys know who has him? I just can't ever remember.

I think it was the last place team if I remembering, can you confirm that was it the last place team? Kyle?

Oh, we have Puka. We have the youngest team with about who me and Jeremy and I.

Is that the last place team?

Yeah?

Is that the team that finished with the fewest wins?

Yeah?

Okay, I just wanted to confirm that.

That was hanging the banner. Maybe hang the banner.

These picks we gotta we're gonna talk about these wide receivers today, half of the more on our team, and I feel.

Hey, you've got you've got a great setup going forward. You've got a ton of draft picks. You tore it down to the nubs. I'm making fun of you, but you've been a very wise manager. This was on purpose and was actually really good management. Your team has young studs and unbelievable draft capital going forward. You better hope twenty twenty four is a great draft class because you're gonna have all of them and your team will rebuild quickly. But let me ask you this. If I made the official offer, I will trade you my entire team and all my draft capital for your entire team and all your draft capital. You ain't hesitate you taking that deal. No, I would never offer it. My team's amazing.

Okay live offer on the show Wow ave a live team for team rolling live team for team offer.

Next wide receiver, we're going to talk about Jordan Addison, who was one of Jason's my guys this year. And I would say Jordan Addison, not only I think you didn't just hit that pick, Jason, I think he did more as a rookie than I expected. Taking twenty third overall, he had seventy nine to eleven and ten finished as the wide receiver twenty one. Here are the rookie wide receivers who have had two weeks as the wide receiver one overall as a rookie Odo Beckham Junior, Jordan Addison, end of list, So two weeks on the season, he was the wide receiver one overall. Yes, there was some justin Jefferson injuries, but ten receiving touchdowns is a big deal. That's one of five rookie wide receivers since twenty fourteen and the type of targets he got. I thought he would get more like short area stuff, like he was getting tons of intermediate targets. You kind of saw the end of the year where Nick Bullin's just like, I don't care, I'm chucking it. He had a couple of big games. So what did you guys see, Jason, did you feel good about that Addison pick? Of like, Okay, he did what he was supposed to do.

Yeah, I do feel really good about my call, of my belief of the talent, my belief in the situation all that. Obviously, I don't I don't think it really worked out. You know, if you drafted Jordan Addison this year, it didn't crush you, but it didn't help you the way that I hoped, primarily because of the Kirk Cousins injury. You know, there's certain things you just can't unfortunately foresee. I think where I'm happy about it is you can watch the games and go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Like that guy's a good wide receiver. He's gonna be just fine in the NFL. He's torching dudes, he's getting wide open. And assuming Kirk Cousins comes back, which I think is a fair assumption at this point, I don't know that the Vikings really want him back, but he was. He was talking about how at this stage in his career, it's not about money. He's been blessed by more money than he ever thought he could have. Now it's more about situation and the structure of the contract rather than the dollars in the contract. So if he comes back, you know everything I loved about him coming into this year, which part of that was being the number two across the field from Justin Jefferson, I'm gonna love even more this next year. And I'm gonna go ahead and assume, maybe bets, you can tell me if this is a dumb assumption. I'm going to assume that Hockinson is on the Puff to start the year. So if you're telling me that Jordan Addison is number two and only won two offense with Kirk Cousins and double teams on Justin Jefferson, I'm I'm pantsless, baby.

Well, Jason, I have some news for you. Your pants will be off.

Okay, Yes, I loveless.

The outlook for for Rockinson with the late season, you know injury is is not that he's a guaranteed to start on Puff, but just these guys that have these injuries so late in the year, you know, really don't come back to be one hundred percent until midway through the year.

Maybe.

So yeah, I think at the start of the year it's gonna be a ton of Jefferson, a ton of Addison. Addison's gonna have a ton of opportunity to capitalize on that in the first you know, two three months of the year.

The only pushback I'll give about Addison that you know, some of the metrics just behind the scenes. He was only targeted on seventeen percent of his routes versus zone, and his yards were outrun against zone were not great, which is going to be a theme for me. Like I just if early on you crush zone coverage, which is seventy percent of the time in the NFL, then that is a thing. But a lot of it was Jefferson not being on the field. So last question, what is his ceiling in like a you know, how high could he go? Because his value is great, it's gonna hold for a little while because he's young, But what is his like ceiling for this next year, the year year beyond in terms of like finish with Jefferson.

There what wide receiver twelve? I think you see you see it almost every year. Every single year, you see about three or four teams that share multiple wide receivers in the top twenty four, and oftentimes you see one or two teams that share multiple wide receivers in the top twelve. And this is the type of team, the type of system, and the type of specific players and Justine Jefferson and Jordan Edison that I think could end the season, you know, kind of like what you saw with you know, Waddle and Tyreek two years ago, or AJ Brown and DeVante Smith two years ago, where you go, Yeah, these two dudes are both awesome and even though there's an alpha that's not up for debate, that's Justin Jefferson, the secondary receiver is phenomenal and great for so that ceiling wise, I think he's the lowest end wide receiver one.

All right, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we're back. We're gonna talk about Jaden Reid. He was taking fiftieth overall in the second round and it was a special it's still a special season for the Packers and their young receiving corps from week ten on, Jaden Reid was the wide receiver nine. He was averaging five receptions a game, and he was kind of used as a debo light. I mean, it's the best way to describe him as super efficient was getting carries on the ground. If there is a little bit of a red flag going into next year, it's that he scored a touchdown every seven and a half touches, which is very hard to sustain. And when we've seen Deebo have these monster seasons and other ones where it just you don't get the same touchdown output. But I mean, Jaden Reid crushed his own coverage. He was just so consistent, targeted on twenty four percent of his routes. And I thought going into the season, this is a guy at Michigan State, a little bit older, his background was kick returned, so like, what kind of usage is he gonna get? What is this team even gonna be right with Jordan Love and all these young receivers, And in fact, he was just awesome. From week twelve on he was targeted on thirty two percent of his routes, So efficiency wise, he was a monster. If you got him in the late second round, he was going at the two ten, two twelve in that range in rookie drafts. I mean, you are just loving life right now. So bets, what are your Jaden Reed thoughts right now?

Yeah, awesome rookie year, especially considering some of the contexts, like you said, around the situation of you know, when he came out, he wasn't really expected to be relied on as the dude. Everyone thought it was going to be the Christian Watson show, and he might have a role as the year goes on, but like wasn't going to be the focal point of the offense. And I think the most encouraging thing about him if you have him on your roster is he's shown an ability to win in multiple ways, like you said, kind of as a manufactured touch guy, but also running legit routes both on the perimeter and in the slot. So I like Jayden Reid quite a bit. I love the way they use him. I love that he's tied to Matt Lafleur, who is one of the best I think offensive minds in football. He's a really, really good player. Now I struggle to see like an incredible ceiling on a guy like this where I don't think you're ever going to get a top five, top ten fantasy finish, But could you get rock solid wide receiver two numbers for a few years in a row at least? I think it's very possible. And those guys matter to your roster a lot in Dynasty. So I like jan Reid quite a bit, very very strong rookie season for sure.

Yet Jason any thoughts on Red and just him moving forward, how you could count on him on a Dynasty roster.

Yeah, I think he's a very talented wide receiver that I'm terrified of. There are a lot of quality young mouths to feed in this offense, and so you're gonna have, I think two camps. You're gonna have the camp that says, hey, look, Jayden Reid broke out. He was the rookie that established himself as the important piece. Especially if this coming week against the forty nine ers, if Jayden Reid shows up and shows out all of a sudden, next year, you're gonna you're gonna go in with Jayde Reid being the number one drafted Green Bay wide receiver, and I worry that that's a mistake. Christian Watson was a turd this year. Just completely flamed out. A disappointment for where you drafted him, a disappointment for even when he was out there on the field, didn't do much. Mostly was injured the whole season, either playing through injuries or not playing through being injured. But if you look at the splits, like there was the chunk in the middle of the season where Christian Watson was playing football and not necessarily great football, but he was out there on the field. The seventeen game pace for Jaden Reid during those games where Christian Watson was active, a seventeen game pace would have been fifty eight receptions, six hundred and eighty nine yards, and five point seven touchdowns. That's that's unstartable. That's that those are numbers that you can't possibly rely on for fantasy. Now, once Christian Watson went out, you talked about that market share, that target share that he had from you know, after Week thirteen, that's when Christian Watson went out. And during that time the rest of the season, while Christian Watson didn't get back on the field, he was on a seventeen game pace of one hundred and two receptions, eleven hundred and ninety yards and twelve point eight touchdowns. So to me, I worry that when the entire wide receiving corps is healthy, and maybe that's not you know, I mean Christians, it's never been healthy. But when they've got the whole core together, he's not that necessary in this offense. He reverts more to like the slot guy getting some quality but ancillary for fantasy role that isn't going to dominate the way that he did dominate the end of this season. So I am much more skeptical of not the talent. I think Jayden Reid proved he's a legit NFL wide receiver, but going forward for fantasy purposes in dynasty leagues, I am not as bullish on him being a weekend, week out plug and play starter, and I think there are some people that are super bullish in it. Every league has monstrous Packers fans, and if I've got Jaden Reid in my dynasty league, I'm gonna knock on that door specific to the Packers fan and say, dude, how much are you willing to give up for this rising superstar? Because if I can get a haul, which I think you can from Packers fans, will I will take that out of the fear that he will just be.

A slock gye Jaden Reid or the one to eight in twenty twenty four.

That's what that question was.

It's a close.

Close that's a very close line.

I think my point was more saying that you could get a mid to late first right bets.

Yeah, you could probably get something like that. I think that's probably a fair market value for him, And I would probably say it's you might get a higher ceiling outcome with the first round pick, depending on who you get, who you take, and you know whatever. But like I said, I don't see a huge ceiling on Jadan Reed. I kind of was mentioning that his best case scenario to me is like a consistent wide receiver too. The median outcome is probably a flex guy for your team, which again in Dynasty, is valuable. But just like Jason said, the talent is there. But if you watch this past weekend's game, that is a case in point right there of what can happen when everyone's healthy. Rio Dobbs hops up for a huge game. Christian Watson came back. He didn't do anything, but he's still on the field every now and then. Both tight ends running routes, Aaron Jones out of the backfield, Jaydan Reied literally had zero yard, zero catches in this game. He just wasn't necessary. And you're gonna have those weeks with the Packers offense and the guys they've hit on, including uh Dantavian Wicks who might touch on later.

Yeah, so it seems like we like the player. The efficiency was awesome this year, but really hard to sustain that over the course of the year. And then also just there's twenty moving parts on this team that have all kind of proven it. Like you look over the last you know, two months, it was a bow Meltain week. You know it was Tucker Kraft who showed up. And the last thing I'll say is players they get the majority of their targets in the slot. Okay, I've looked at this over the last decade. If you get fifty plus percent of your targets from the slot as a rookie, you pretty much need to be an outlier. Here are the only rookie wide receivers to finish in the top thirty for Fantasy as a rookie if they get the majority of their targets in the slot. It was Jordan Matthews, who was really good as a rookie Cooper Cup. I it was fun, and then he became a tight end Cooper Cup ceedee, Lamb, Jalen Waddle, a Monra, Jayden Reid. You basically need an outlier player, and all most of those other ones were drafted early on. And you know, Aman Roth feels like he's just an outlier player in himself. So I hate falling in love with slot only wide receivers because you need so much. Like you were saying, the targets often aren't as good. You know, Randal Cobb had some big years with touchdowns and he had some other years where it's like, ah, this wasn't so great, so.

We like you. I guess one thing you got to keep in mind is clearly the Packers have a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback because that's all they draft. So keep in mind that going forward, Jordan Love will be the best quarterback in the league.

He's playing like it.

Dude, did they do it a third time? They freaking better not have. Like, I'm happy for my Packers fan friends, but like, screw you guys, I'm a Cardinals fan. We've never gotten it. Right. You don't get to go thirty forty years of NonStop first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks here. It's not freaking fair.

Hey, Kyle doesn't even have a quarterback, did you.

Guys, we don't have any. I don't care. That's that means I don't have any expectations. Can't get hurt. You can't hurt me right now. Yeah, and last thing, Jordan Love at Utah State. He did not look this fluid. He did not run at all at Utah State. I mean it's a different player. So I props to them. Let's talk about Rashi Rice who Jason, I need to give you props because I adamantly went against you on this pick because you were saying, I like this guy, like the more of than consensus, and he was going at the two like mid second round and rookie picks, and I was just like, I just don't like this guy. He's older, SMUs this like manufactured stuff. I don't really like it. I mean, he was he was the dude, especially over the second half. Travis Kelce faded away. From week eleven on. He was leading this team twenty five percent target share. He was just awesome. And then comparing to the rest of the league, not just rookies. His two point nine to one yards per out run against zone coverage was incredible. It was tied with Monroe for fourth best of league. Here are the only wide receivers who had a higher yards per oute run against zone coverage this past year, Tyreek Hill, Jalen Waddle, Justin Jefferson. That's it. So on a per route basis, he was incredible. Even if you focus on the entire year, not just the end of the year, and in the playoffs he's been really really good too. So Jason, any thoughts on Rice and what he can be moving forward?

Yeah, I mean I did like Rice quite a bit as a talent when when I scouted him. His production was pretty good. But one of the things that I was really impressed with was how much production wasn't in the box score, how many penalties he drew, Like I feel like every game I watched him, it was just like big Pi, big Pi, big Pi, and all of those plays were when he torched a guy or and the defender had no choice but to just give them the catch with a PI. So I was impressed with him and the fact that he went to Mahomes. I remember saying this in the offseason. A lot of people were down on Rice and assumed it couldn't happen because you already had McCole Hardman fail and then sky Moore fail, and so you get in this habit of saying, well, rookie wide receivers for Patrick Mahomes, we were we used to be excited for them because it's Patrick Mahomes, but we've learned our lesson. You can't do that. That's like c J. Stroud, you know, Ohio State quarterbacks can't be You've got to be individual to the specific player. You can't just say, well, this situation never works, so it won't work. He was a talented guy. The wide receiver corp for the for the Chiefs just sucked. I mean, I was totally off sky More and so the opportunity should be there going forward. Now that's the question, like, what is Rushie Rice. Well, he's the wide receiver one for this team. The nice thing about being the Chiefs being deep in the playoffs for fantasy purposes, they're not adding a Marvin Harrison junior. They're not adding one of the top three wide receivers. Even if they use their first round draft pick on a wide receiver. It's going to be the fifth or sixth wide receiver in this draft more than likely, and Travis Kelsey's getting older. So the way that I look at this is Rushie Rice is their wide receiver one going forward. I don't believe he is ever going to be able to be a you know, like a Justin Jefferson Garrett Wilson type of player, someone that just demands one hundred and seventy targets and is open and can just constantly be the one. I don't think that's his play style. But I do think he's going to be a really really solid you know, you saw it the post by rookie bump. That happens sometimes. There's never been more clear example than Rushie Rice, who basically went from a part time player to a full time player right at that bye week. And so that is a fair look of saying, well, from that bye week on, through the good games, through the bad games, how was he? He was the wide receiver fourteen in half PPR scoring after their bye week, including all players in the NFL. So I think next year you're looking at a really really solid, high end wide receiver two. You can hope he elevates and you know levels up. I don't think that's gonna happen. Like you said, he's a little bit older already. I think he's gonna be basically about the wide receiver fifteen next year.

I think that's pretty fair. And another thing about Rashie Rice that to me like you're kind of mentioning this with It didn't work with sky Moore, it didn't work with me Cole. It clearly wasn't working with MBS Justin Watson's whoever else you put out there is there was something about I forget like when it was maybe like week seventy nine, somewhere in that range, Like Rashi Rice is learning to be a Pat Mahomes wide receiver, which is you need to learn how to play out of structure, understand what he's going to do to keep the play alive, and adjust your play style to that, not just say like this is the rout on running and this is how I'm gonna run it. Every single time you see Kelsey freestyle a little bit with Mahomes and it's been incredible for years. You saw that a little bit of Rashee Rice down the stretch too, so you kind of has that. You know, you can't put it in a spreadsheet, you can't measure it, you can't whatever. But he has that part of it too that he kind of gets it with Mahomes and it takes a special player to be able to capitalize with Mahomes and we've seen players miss over and over and over again Rashei Rice, so love that about him too. But yeah, I mean, I think it's it's fair to think you have a wide receiver too locked in for at least next year moving forward. That's kind of the evaluation I would have with probably a decent number of spike weeks where he gives you some wide receiver one finishes. But I personally, again don't see that sort of ceiling on Rashei Rice that he is going to be, you know, a top twelve option forward. That's not where I see him.

Yeah, he probably sits in somewhere around wide receiver twenty ish in dynasty rankings, like somewhere around that you said low end wide receiver two. It's crazy to think if I had told you before the season, Patrickholmes is going to have his worst season as a fantasy quarterback, and yet he's going to support somebody who's was essentially a wide receiver one down the stretch. I mean, that's that's crazy, But yeah, I mean so solid for what he did. I want to bring in Say Flowers next, because he's a little bit tougher for me to evaluate moving forward. He's taking twenty second overall by the Baltimore Ravens and his splits. The main thing I looked at is when Mark Andrews on the field. How do you do when Mark Andrews wasn't on the field. Andrews was not on the field for weeks one and then I just did weeks twelve through seventeen, the target share, the targets per out run, all of those numbers for Flowers went up. He averaged fourteen point seven points per game with Andrews off the field, only eight when he was on the field. So we obviously know Mark Andrews is gonna be back because he's awesome, He's going to be there. How do you evaluate a player. That's not the only metric to use, the only thing to look at, but it was very, very different how this offense functioned when Andrews is on the field. So any thoughts on Zay Flowers move, I was lower, and I'll be honest, I still don't know what to think about him.

You were just lower because everyone he was like the darling at the time, So of course Kyle was like this guy can't do it. Yeah, I mean, I always worry when we use that stuff with like the splits on and off with the player in and out of the lineup, because when you hear that, and I'm not saying it's not true, it clearly is true. The numbers will tell you he was better without Mark Andrews. But when you hear that stuff, you think that, like, that is what it's going to be moving forward, no matter what. And if you made that argument for I'm on Saint Brown a couple years ago, you didn't see the upside case for a player being able to elevate and take control of a certain role in the offense. Now Mark Andrews will be there. He is going to command targets. So that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that there's room for him to be even better. And guys like Odell and Nelson agil Or and the list goes on, non Rashaan Bateman, they're not relevant. So like I think there's enough talent here and Mark Andrews that Lamar can support both of them in the right situation. Of course, with how Lamar runs and Mark Andrews touchdown equity, there's going to be some down weeks for say Flowers. There always is for wide receivers in fantasy. But I like them. I think you should enough that you should feel confident that you've got a starting caliber player on your roster for years. I think a Flowers is a very good player.

I do echo most of that. I worry a little bit just about the Ravens consistency as an offense. Like you know, I love Mark Andrews. I've always loved Mark Andrews, who's said he got injured this year. If you put him and Isaiah likely together, the Ravens titand was great, and I think the Ravens titand will be great, And especially at that position, it's gonna be super consistent for that position. But there's a team that can run the ball and put two hundred and fifty rushing yards against an opponent in a game and three rushing touchdowns and have a really down week for a wide receiver. So you're not going to have a good, consistent high floor for Flowers. But I think he showed enough as a rookie, and Odell's not coming back. Yeah, I think he already said like he's not having fun playing football even you know, however far the Ravens get win a Super Bowl exit early, Odell's not coming back, and Bateman has shown that he is not that dude. So I believe that you've got an opportunity here where Flowers should step into the number two target behind the tight end position and be a pretty important fantasy asset going forward. So I know, Kyle, you have data on first round wide receivers who get was it fifty targets or fifty receptions.

Fifty which one fifty target or fifty plus targets.

Fifty plus targets that their their ADP is always really really good the following year. So I mean that should hold true here with Flowers. His value should be very high going into next year's draft. Now whether or not it should be and it was correct will be the debate. I think he's gonna be a solid wide receiver two, very similar to Rushi Rice. I think if I were to take one of them next year, I would draft Rice ahead of Flowers, but I'd like both guys.

Yeah, it's tough because we're giving context for all you guys we talked about so far had really good rookie seasons, like really good historically. When you compare you know, like day Flowers twenty four percent targets share, that's ninth highest among rookie wide receivers since twenty fourteen. That's like, really really good. He's among really really good group of players. We talk about Odell Beckham, we talk about the AJ Browns, Puka, like all of these players that are elite. It's just when we're kind of, you know, sorting them out, like I would agree, I would pick Rice. I think there are weeks with the Baltimore offense where it's just the touchdowns swing. But if you have him on a Dynasty Ross, I think you can feel good about a low end wide receiver. Two, he's gonna feel more like a flex though sometimes.

Yeah, I agree. But the real interesting thing is gonna come now to some of the other names we're gonna get to. I'm curious when we get back from break, whether whether you would rather have Flowers or this next guy.

All Right, we'll find out who he is. We are back. We're gonna talk about the artist formerly known as Nathaniel Dell now Tank Dell. Sixty ninth overall by the Texans. Nice and man, if you had him on your team, he was a really really fun player, really fun in Dynasty. I mean I took him late in a draft, just just super fun from weeks nine to twelve, So he had a month span where he was the wide receiver three in fantasy. He was cooking ninety two receiving yards per game, one point three touchdowns, like he was scoring touchdowns and the crazy that's the thing is I went into the season thinking, oh, he's a little guy. He They're just gonna get him a little you know, short stuff. You know, he had one target behind the line of scrimmage all year, Like it was deep stuff, it was intermediate targets. Seventy two percent of his receptions went for a first down or a touchdown. That was seventh best among wide receivers. So for a small dude, an anty bitty boy, he was playing like one of the big boys. So big plays unfortunately gets hurt. Bets. What do we know about his injury situation and his recovery timeline.

Yeah, he had the fractured fibula, which is, I don't want to say a routine, but overall a pretty straightforward recovery. So I mean he'll be limited early in the offseason of course, off the surgery, but he'll enter training camp at one hundred percent and you know, no risk of missing any time in twenty twenty four, so he should be good to go for this year and no real concerns.

All right.

So bringing it back to the question, Jason Zay Flowers or Tank Dell in Dynasty.

Easy question for me. It's Della. Tank Dell is a star. Like I had a real hard time believing that one hundred and sixty five pound player can really produce at an elite fantasy level, Like he could be great for the NFL and just not really be great for fantasy. But it's like you said, they didn't use him behind the line of scrimmage. They didn't use him as this short, little slot gadget guy. He was used as an alpha kind of X wide receiver. It was him and Nico on the outside just tearing teams apart. He started Week one under fifty percent of the snaps, then got a little bit more involved starting Week two, gets injured a couple weeks later, misses a game, and in that injured game, only plays thirty percent of the snaps. If you take his entire season right up until the game, he you know, didn't do anything that got injured, including the thirty six percent snap injured game, including the Week one where he was first NFL game and not very involved, and you just say, well, what was his pace? He was on pace for twelve hundred yards and twelve touchdowns on one hundred and thirty targets as a rookie. He's tied to CJ. Stroud. I am full in gorgeo for Tank Dell. I you know, we had a moment on the Main Show between Andy and I and this happened so naturally. We were near our trade deadline in our league of record, and I had been trying to trade for Tank Dell because I thought he was a league winner. Thought I just watched him every single game, so much fun to watch. No defenders can guard him. He'd just burn people and find the space in his zone. He would no one could guard him. A man, He's just really really good and his production holy molely. If you look at his college production. It was one of those where it's like, whenever I see college production that high, I just almost throw it out. I just go like, well, this was gadget weird college system where it's like, oh yeah, huge, seventy hundred touchdowns in college, it's just insane production. But then when you come to the NFL and you match that with a superstar, sensational quarterback, I mean, there's very little to not like here. You can make the argument, oh, I think he's too small to stay healthy. That's fair. He fractured his fibula getting this kind of work, and he's one hundred and sixty five pounds. You can play scared and or smart and say he's too small for me. I'm not playing that way. Everything he showed on the field translated from college. He was great that the franchise put him out there. They used him the right way. He's a rookie tied to a rookie quarterback. What is there not to love about Tank Dell? I would like I would go trade for Tanked if I've got If I could go give up a first for Tank Dell right now in any league, if I could find any manager that thinks that that's a deal for them. I'd do it in a heart. I don't know that you'll find that because if you had Tank Dell, you experienced how good he was when he was playing, and to get back to that moment. So I at the trade deadline, I decide, I decide, you know what, because I had been going back and forth with this manager for Tank Dell, and I was like, you know what, I just want to go win the championship this year. I was the I was the reigning champ. I wanted to just back to back it. And I said, I'm gonna go pay whatever it takes to get Tank Dell. So I pull out my phone, I open up Sleep or I go to that manager's team and I go to you know, the trade screen, select him, and I looked for Tank Dell and I'm like, what, wait, I missed his name, Like, I'm looking for him, and I'm what, He's not there. And so I can't find Tank Dell and I'm going, why what happened? And so I exit and I go to the chat log and I see that my nemesis, Andrew Holloway had just previously totally We had never talked about this. We had never mentioned him as a league winner or anything. Andy had the same thought, totally independent and went and trade right before me. Now it turned out he got injured, he wasn't the league winner. But despite Andy did win the league. Uh with other assets. But I just I'm all in on Tank Dell. I'm a full believer, and you know, I think he's gonna be I mean, like a top fifteen wide receiver going forward. I think you can make the argument of like I would take him over Zay Flowers. Yes, Rushie Rice tied to Patrick Mahomes. I think I'd rather have Tank Dell. I really would.

Yeah, who hasn't any Oh.

Boy, we shut up? Can we mute his mic?

Go for bet?

I have a yeah, A couple of things just to add. But I agree he's great when comparing prospects and rookies. It's not the end all be all, but sometimes I just look to see you like who was better at earning targets? Thinking about Zay Flowers versus tink Tel, it was Tank Tell higher targets, Trout run more with his yards throut run. And I think about the quarterback like Lamar is great, but we know that there's gonna be those games where Lamar is going to run take away a production from his wide receivers. That's not necessarily today Stroud's game, and so you're gonna get a pocket passer that can support multiple options. To me, that that's good for fantasy when you have that wide receiver. The other thing is think about like quarterbacks in the league that just elevate all the guys around them. There's not that many. Noah Brown for years was a blocking wide receiver with Dak Prescott. He goes to Cjay Shroud. Noah Brown is Randy Moss this year running around out there with career days. It's like, what is happening? Like Cday Shroud might just be that good. So I'm with you. I think Tank Dell overs A Flowers is a pretty easy decision for me personally.

He destroyed zone coverage, which just makes me happy. Two point seventy five yards per out run against zone. And I want to finish this conversation with just one other Texans question, because I mean the Texans, they're pretty much on the list. Our company was going through which teams were rooting for the most that are in the playoffs, and I think every single person had the Texans as one or two. We're just, you know, all behind the Texans. We love CJ. Stroud. Would you rather have Tank Dell or Nico Collins in Dynasty? Nico going into a contract year.

It's tough, right, I it's really tough, man. I won't bump these guys.

Maybe it's okay to be able to say they're pretty much the same, like you know, we're splitting here, sir, but they're they're very very close. I think if Tank didn't have this injury and just finished out the season, I think it would be a different conversation.

It's so hard, man.

That is also doesn't help that in what against the Colts, Nico Colin had that had that huge bomb touchdown and then he just shreds the Browns one week later on National TV.

Man, they both really get good. It's really really hard. So through the year when they were both playing I I remember we were asked this question after they both kind of had their big games. They kind of took turns. It was like, who would you rather have and went I went Tank. Dell said I'd rather have Tank, and that looked genius because the next couple games that they played together, Tank was the better option. He was the one in this offense I had of Nico. He's younger, his contract situation is better. So I don't blame anyone for taking Tank. It's just like this sounds so, I mean, it is what it is. I want the two hundred and fifteen pound guy over one hundred and sixty five pound guy. It's that simple. But yeah, I just I want. I want the guy who I think is gonna be able to take a beating more and play is that alpha a little bit more? And they both were great. Now this question becomes a lot easier. Should Nico be extended this offseason, which I think is likely Nico gets a big contract extension, it's definitely Nico over Dell for me right now. I think it's a it's a fascinating debate because in Dynasty you've got a rookie tied to a rookie. The long term value of Tank Dell seems to be maybe the right call.

It's it's tough because both of those players you went into this season having an opinion. Like we said, Tankdale really small for me, Nico Collins, this is a fifty to fifty ball guy who that's all he is, and he hasn't really had any big plays, and now all of a sudden, he's just a monster and a monster in the intermediate area of the field where I just love that too. So, dude, it's so.

I'm right, I am right there with you. That my two biggest whiffs this season. You know, we don't want to only talk about the things we got right. We want to admit what we got wrong. I know that. Like I thought about this the other day, I was like, there's two players that I just was so wrong on. I need to I need to evaluate why and take another take a second look. Nico Collins. I just was never excited. I didn't think he was that good, and maybe this is all c J. Stroud, but he was great and I want him now. And then Rashad White for me, I just those two whiffs. Rashad White, I have no shares of, Nico Collins, I have no shares of and they were both great. So those those are my two big misses this year.

Yeah, let's let's do that exercise. I will say this about White for fantasy could work. I still think he's not a great NFL player, but that's what's hard.

I thank you. I don't why. I feel like I'm not allowed to say that because he's been so good and and he is good at catching the ball and doing his little thing that he does over and over and over and over and over, which is great for fantasy. Still bet yeah, I mean whatever, bets. Who who's your uh, who's your missus?

Oh man, how much time you got?

No?

I think for me, I definitely like wasn't high enough on White with you guys, but just like man early in the year, I was definitely hesitant on Jamiir Gibbs because I thought Dave Montgomery would be so involved. Turns out those things were kind of both true. But then Jamia Gibbs was just that good, so I didn't have enough shares of him in Redraft. I have a couple of shares in Dynasty, which are fun, but in redraft a little bit of a miss for me, I could.

Say, I was way just like want to no business with TJ. Howkinson. I just thought like, Okay, you know you'll get some targets, but this is just Jefferson's team not drafting this guy, especially in redrafter best Ball, and he was awesome, Like he was genuinely awesome for the tight end position. I was way off on that. All right, let's talk about Jaysen because I think he's the name that I I have him in a couple of rebuilds. I was very happy to draft him last year. I felt very confident to draft him as the top wide receiver, and you know, he was the wide receiver one usually went one o two to one oh four in a super flex like he was. He was drafted up there, and it was a really slow start to the year. I mean he was getting fifty percent of the snaps through first month of season.

Yeah.

I I came out and said on the main show that down the stretch he could be a league winner. He was not a league winner at all. In fact, he only had three finishes inside the top twenty four. And his usage, you guys noticed that at the beginning of the year it was just these weird low aidot don't matter targets. He had twenty nine receptions behind the line of scrimmage. That was most among rookies. And I had to look this up because this is not good territory. It is the second most in the Pro Football Focus era behind the line of scrimmage for rookie. The only rookie with more targets behind the line of scrimmage ron Dale Moore, who was used as a nothing as a rookie that was running that's very often. Yeah, So that is not what Jasn was in college, and that's not what I think he can be moving forward. So I need some help here because everybody invested a ton in him, He's still gonna hold a lot of value, and yet you have to kind of dock him in your mind compared to these other guys we all talked about, like, I'm assuming people, you know, they're gonna want Pooka ahead of him. I'm assuming people want Addison ahead of Jaysn. Rice is right there, you know, Rice Flowers, Tank Dell. I think those are the kind of guys that are in conversation. So I'll start there. Where does he slot in among those guys moving forward?

I think you have to take a dynasty approach versus a redraft approach on JSN. Most of the guys were talking about and we're looking at their next year's outlook. I think their next year's outlook is better than Jaysn. JSN will play next year behind Tyler Lockett. The contract situation, Lockett should be back behind DK Metcalf. Those are not average wide receivers. You're not just like, Okay, well you're supposed to be talented, but you're third on the depth chart. Those are Pro Bowl wide receivers. Those are all pro wide receivers. I mean, you're not going to be a dominant one in that offense for fantasy purposes. I mean, part of the reason he was used so much behind the line of scrimmage is because they just had to find a way to get him involved because he's talented, but they you know, he wasn't going to be the wide receiver one. He wasn't gonna be the wide receiver two. Going to this next season, I could see more of the same, And so in redraft, I will I'll be taking all these other guys that we've been talking about. I'd take Tank Dell above Jaysn. But when you're talking dynasty, you still need to have a long term view for talented players. I don't. I didn't see anything this season to me from Jasn that said he's not as good as I thought. You know, like you you watch Bryce Young and you go, he's not good. He's not as good as a lot of people thought, Jaysn didn't get it done for fantasy. But he showed flashes to me. He looked good. His hands were great. I mean, he broke his hand at one point. You can't forget that, you know, was playing with a broken hand through some of this season after he came back from missing a few games. But he had flashes to me he looked good. He looked apart. And I still believe he's very, very talented. He's a real difficult prospect in the sin that depending on what your team is right are you are you a competing championship contending team right now? Most teams have JSN are not most teams have Jasn had the one oh two or you know, one o two to one oh four, And he didn't come and push your team towards championship levels this season. So I think he's probably in a good place on most dynasty rosters to be someone that over the next six, seven, eight years is going to be a really important fantasy asset. But I don't love his twenty twenty four outlook still.

Yeah, just to put some numbers to the situation for Lockett and Metcalf, twenty four and a half million next year for Metcalf, twenty seven point eight for Lockett, the following year twenty six for Lockett, twenty nine million for Metcalf. So like, those guys are there unless something crazy happens, which is really tough because, like you said, we think we all agree with Jasen is a very talented player, but Seattle has been very willing to like slow play their rookies. Maybe that change is not at Pee Carroll's moving on. I don't know, but like you saw it with with Charbaday, you've seen it in the past with other rookies that they take. They kind of give him time before, like they really thrust them into opportunity. So I hope he gets the opportunity to do something this coming year. If he doesn't, though, and it's kind of the same role, the hit rate on these guys does start to become pretty concerning, even though we do think he's a talented player. So I think he's perfect if you are not planning to contend in twenty twenty four. He's the perfect trade target to me in Dynasty because you can live with a okay year in twenty twenty four and understand the upside is their long term. But like you said, if you're competing for this season, I would much rather have Tank, Dell, Rushie, Rice, the other guys that we just talked about.

Yeah, I think people are gonna be willing to wait it out if you invested an early pick on him, just saying hey, I want to see where this goes. And let me give you a couple other numbers. Historically, his targets brought run was nineteen and a half percent. That's solid. I mean, Calvin Ridley's was right there, DeVonta Smith, DK Metcalf. I mean they're all in this similar ballpark. So like, historically speaking, he was totally fine. And I looked at rookie wide receivers. If they saw ninety targets as a rookie, what do they do the next year? Sixty eight percent of them increase their target share, and the average yards per outrun for those wide receivers was over two yards, which is really really good. So I think JSN, you'll see a slow improvement. If somebody gets injured, it's a bigger opportunity. But man, I feel like value wise, going into the season, you'd say, oh, he's a top fifteen dynasty wide receiver. He's probably more twenty ish right now, which you know usually you don't see those wide receivers drop in value. But he's not done. Please please do not just like move on. I want to just quickly hit as we wrap up the episode any other wide receivers we talked about que who not good, not great, and we'll publish these findings. I don't really want to spend much time on Josh Downs because.

See, I hate him. I hate him. I hate Josh Downs as a person. I hate him so much. I hated him as a prospect.

I know you did.

I talked so much crap about him, and then he had this little tiny just like him, little tiny flash in the middle of the season, from like week five through week eight to make you think, oh oh, this guy for real. And he stopped me from trading for Michael Pittman because I was like, well, I got Josh Downs on a team, I don't want to have to play both, and I'm you know, now, I'm just deleting the player. So I didn't and Michael Pittman would have got me to the playoffs. But no, no, no, no, no no, I had to stick with Josh Downs, who from that point forward had a nine games played pace. If you extrapolate that seventeen games of five hundred and sixty yards nine no touchdowns.

Nice.

I will never I will never believe in you again, Josh Downs, you fooled me once.

He Yeah, you can put him on the naughty list. He's He's just a slot wide receiver. Right going to the season. I had this on the podcast. I said, I liked him because he's from Georgia. He had great production, but he's Jameson Crowder. That was the comp we gave. And I'm looking at our metrics and I'm hearing them slot wide receivers have a rookie he's basically Jamison Crowder, so that that's kind of where he's at. And man, you know what we need to do, Jason. We need to take that clip that we have from the Dynasty podcasts and the main podcast from before the season. You need to talk to yourself, buddy.

Yeah, I know this is on me. I should have listened to my own belief, my own advice. BET's shame on you. You got any names you want to throw out?

Any other rookies, Uh, some other guys that hit some thresholds of just targets, D'antavian Wicks, Michael Wilson to Mario Douglas, Trey Palmer, Jonathan Mingo, Marvin Mamms, any of those guys.

Yeah, the Mingo one, I think is just important to kind of like huge just say it's not happening.

Tom.

I mean, the he had more opportunity. You could argue that some of these other you know, first hround Rooie wide receivers, Like he was out there every snap for this team. And you know, yes, it comes back to Bryce Young and it comes back to the offensive scheme and all those sort of thing. But it's not like he wasn't seeing targets. He just wasn't doing anything with them, not getting open, not you know, efficient. Just again, I don't think it's gonna happen, so kind of like Huge, I'm willing to quote quote unquote so low and just get what I can and move on.

The only name I'll throw out there is I still am not willing to I'm not willing to quit Marvin Mims yet. I'll stay. I'll stay believing in the flashes that you saw. Let's hope he gets more than thirty three targets next year.

Yeah, that one. You just need to just hold on figure it out. Jonathan Mingo, by the way, second lowest yards per out run of any rookie wide receiver.

Oh gosh, what was it?

Zero point seven eight?

Oh oh, that's blow that point eight rip them off.

He's yeah, you can basically be done. Dantavin Wicks is still a growing conversation because of the last really month and a half. He's just been good and targeted and targeted zone. But we'll see from there. Michael Wilson, I don't think that he's going to be valuable moving forward. And then same thing to Mario Douglas is just happened to be in an offense at the right time that needed people just to be a body on the field and catch targets. I don't think Douglas is going to be a thing moving forward. I'll probably eat my words, but I don't know.

I mean, there's no ceiling. There's no ceiling on a player like Pop Douglas obviously, but his underlying numbers and like metrics are okay. It's just that context, like you said, is important. PPR leagues is like a double flex. I could see him every now and then cracking your lineup. But that's that's really it.

Yeah, it's it's gonna be a different team, different you know, offensive set up everything. So who knows what they're going to be. I mean, is their quarterback Drake May. That's probably we'll take second overall. We'll see third overall. Washington second.

I should know that.

Yeah, Washington second.

I'm drying a black right now.

Yeah, Washington second. Washington Patriots are third, so they'll probably take Jayden and Daniels. We will get all that cleared up because the Dynasty pass, we'll get to give you all the information for that, so yeah, make sure you stay connected. We will get to talk next week about some important dynasty stats to consider and throughout some trade targets that you can use all the way up until the Super Bowl and beyond. So Thatt'll do it for the show. We'll see you again next week.

Having onw some week. We will catch you next Wednesday. What are we talking about next week? Targets?

Oh see? Then? Okay, thank you for listening to another edition of the Fantasy Footballers, DFS and Betting Podcast. Don't forget to visit us on the web at the Fantasyfootballers Dot com

Fantasy Footballers Dynasty - Fantasy Football Podcast

Dynasty Fantasy Football from The Fantasy Footballers. Deep-dive into the world of Dynasty Fantasy F 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 95 clip(s)