Oldies but goodies on today’s dynasty fantasy football podcast! Borg, Betz, and Mike discuss old players in dynasty sorting through the busted and the undervalued. They also give a weekly film review of up-and-coming players such as Dontayvion Wicks. Join Borg, Betz, and a Baller each week to take your Dynasty fantasy football game to the next level and dominate your league -- Fantasy Football Podcast for October 2nd, 2024.
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Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets and a baller.
Welcome in.
It's October second here on the Kandis Footballers Dynasty Podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Organoni, and I am joined by Matthew Betts and Mike Wright.
October. Wow, doesn't it feel like the season just started? Like, I don't know, yesterday him in four weeks?
Four weeks, I don't look it was it was one hundred and fifteen degrees or the weekend for me. Guys, So I don't know. I don't know nothing about fall.
The weather opposite where I was. Uh, Hurricane you had.
Your own little weather situation going on there too, That's fair, that's fair.
Yeah, think things are different all over the US. But we are a month into football and for some of us and some of our players, they have not started yet. They have, they have, they're still getting, you know, things churning. Just a little little runway of a month, that's all we need for some of these guys. And in fact, the players we're gonna be talking about on this episode today, they're all old, so you know, it takes a little bit and usually with old players, we want them to start hot so that we can trade them away. Some of these old dudes, because we're gonna be talking old busted and old undervalued, are just not getting started. They can't get it going anymore.
So what you're saying, Kyle, is that one of these weeks Mark Andrews will score a fantasy. Oh my god, is that what you're telling me? That's what I need to hear. Guys, I'm dying. I am I am dying inside me and Kyle, not dynasty of but a league of record.
We are. Look, it's a three keeper and we had an early second round pick. So our second pick was Mark Andrews and it has been.
Which is like a fifth for most people.
You like, it's sort of like it's the curve because but anyways, it was just pure, pure disaster, like season ruining type of a pick paint.
And I don't even have words or and we're gonna break him down by the way down.
We're putting him in the ground. Mark Andrews, your name is trash.
I never can quite figure out with Mike. So I'm as co manager where he's at in the moment. If he just like I can't take this anymore, We're moving on or we just got a hold forever because because Mark Andrews one of those players that we know has been awesome, even just like some of the stuff we were looking at as a pure receiver last year was like tenth best and a ton of separation scores, all this stuff, not just like tight end metrics, but like receiver scores. So he's one of the players we're gonna talk about today. We'll talk about some other old guys and what do you do in Dynasty? I tried to work some magic today working a trade for Travis Kelcey, trying to figure out, you know, a couple of weeks ago, is really the low point for Kelsey now? Well, I you know, I'm trying to buy it with Andy.
Buy high, so low the opposite of what you're supposed to do, Kyle, That's what he's doing.
Many thing for Kelsey now is legitimately buying high on an old man. Oh.
I felt pretty good about my offer. It was very low, is Justice Hill David and Joku?
Oh did you get fund or did that get immediately rejected?
Oh?
He started a conversation. Okay, what's that conversation at now? We're still in the works what's going on with the people need to know?
Kyle.
I think that those two players start a conversation of you can add in some picks, uh, you know, back and forth and kind of figure out where you're at. But I feel like with Kelsey right now, Bets, we still don't have any update about Rashi Rice right not as of our recording, but we.
Do with the update is that there's no update, which is super duper weird. Okay, Bets, you're the you're the the physical therapist, Fella, what is going on? How How long does it take to figure out what? What are they doing over there? Man? Yeah?
So my take on the situation is that they're probably trying to get additional images to evaluate other structures. So like when his knee kind of hyper extended, you could see his foot like rotate out word a little bit. There's a structure in the back of the knee called the post giorlateral corner that could be as everyone knows, I mean, come on, uh, could also be injured. And so there was like a report you have one of those, Yeah, you have too. Why don't you like shocking how that works? But there's a report from Josina Anderson on Monday afternoon and her like there's like a speculative tweet about like surgery windows of like when they want to do it, And it was like, this is weird because we don't have confirmation of the A C. L injury as of our recording, but she's already floating out surgery windows idea like maybe this is a stage recovery kind of like not like Nicktureb, very different than his injuries, like laun.
We're launching a rocket into space. There's only certain times of the day and the year that we can do it.
Basically, yeah, I already I have already everywhere. So I'm just holding out the slightest glimmer of hope that this is not what we all think it is, but we should know sooner or later.
Injury information for athletes real people, by the way, is like, you know, we see the injury that happens in a game, you get the initial reaction right after the game, and then you kind of get information within a couple of days, giving you like here's the imaging, here's what they did. I'm just thinking about my own life, like if I got injured, it's like, ah, I guess I'll go to the doctor. I guess this gets delayed, like it could be a whole month till I really figure out what actually happened to me. But these athletes like I need to know this week. That's kind of like where we're at now. And I feel like with your job, Bets, it's like you find out a lot of information within the week.
Well, And it was weird because you know, coaches never talk about injuries during the game, and like afterwards they always say, like, you know, we'll consult the medical staff, we'll see what the rio shows.
We'll know more tomorrow. But like at halftime, Andrey was like this is not good. Yeah, it's not good.
And it was like, whoa, okay, so yeah, I don't know, man, But speaking about injuries in the NFL and US as just normal, awkward people that aren't real athletes.
I lost it.
On the Tuesday show when Andy compared his bilateral achilles tendonitis to that of Christian McCaffrey, that was so good.
It's like I've had this, Yeah, I've had this episode. We are the same guy, Christian McCaffrey, Andy yea one and the same.
Yeah, we can relate to the players that we spend a lot of time with you know every.
Day that that plantar, that the fascy items. Haven't we all that that thing sucks man for some months. Yeah, it doesn't go away, you don't.
There's no remedy. You just kind of tough it out.
I mean there is, but it takes a very long time.
So well, you learned something every single day. But as I mentioned on this episode, we'll be talking old, busted, old, undervalued, kind of get it to lay of the land, and the next week we'll be talking trade targets. And in a couple of weeks, I see on our schedule a rookie draft redo where we're gonna redo the first round, second round of rookie drafts and kind of see, all right, here's how player there's a move. I mean, the big conversation is obviously Neighbors and Harrison, and I think I think it's trended in the direction of most people would take neighbors ahead right now, and why not lead the league in targets. But we'll have that conversation coming up. But first thing we're gonna do, yeah, is rewind to last week.
Weekly rewind.
Every week on the Dynasty podcast, we rewind the film and we do a deep dive on a player and kind of talk about the implications for dynasty. I will let Betts go first because yours is so painful when you just get out of the way.
I don't know what to do with Kyle Pitts anymore. Man. So he is earning a target on fourteen percent of his routes. Nice, not great.
He's averaging one point zero six yards per route run, also not great. And when I think about the conversation, and you know, from like just a short term outlook for the Falcons entering the year, it was like, Okay, they got Kirk Cousins, Arthur Smith is gone, this pass rate should be there this year. But what's kind of wild about that team is that they're not very pass heavy at all. I mean the middle of the pack sixteenth and pass rate, but they're thirty first in place per games. So you have an offense right now that's not ripping off a ton of plays, and they're not throwing enough to compensate for not enough play volume, which means one or two or sometimes three of the main pass cutchers are not going to get there on a weekend and week out basis, and certainly you would bet against Kyle Pitts in this situation based off of his numbers.
I mean it's so bad.
Like watching him on film, it really is worse than you think. Like sometimes the numbers are like, yeah, what was it that bad? Like was the ball overthrown affecting his you know, yards throat run number?
Stuff like that.
Like he's just not getting open and he's kind of in no man's land where it's like he's not really good enough to operate as like a true perimeter wide receiver. But he's also not really a classic tradition inline tight end. So his role in the NFL it's like a very thin needle to thread where he has to have the best situation for his skill set. And I don't know that it's currently with this version of the Falcons or last year's version of the Falcons or any version of the Falcons. And so now you have a player who you know ESPN's open score. I really like it because it kind of quantifies or attempts to quantify how good a player is independent of their situation, like are you getting open on a route doing what you're supposed to do? And there have been any players charted in the NFL through four weeks that qualify for their metric. Kyle Pitts's eightieth in that open score metric, behind only Cooks.
He is last.
He's qualified. That's as I see that he's a qualified player.
He is behind Brandon Cooks, Greg Dortch, Dalton Schultz. So I don't know, man, you once had this guy who had a thousand yards as a rookie. But it feels very much to me like juju, where it's like you hold you held onto the pass for so long. And I'm not saying Kyle Pitts is old or anything, but just like you held on too like that one thing for a second year, a third year, a fourth year, and it just doesn't look to be getting any better. So Kyle Pitts is so tough.
Is it possible that his injuries have just like depleted him? I would say at this point, I would be shocked if that's what's happening right now. Last year, that was a very fair thing to consider, at least in the first you know, two months, two and a half months something like that, because he was recovering from a PCL injury, which as we're seeing with Pooka this year like lingers for a very very long time. He also had surgery on his MCL, So it's not shocking that last year didn't go great, but the fact that it's lingered so long into this year where he's years or year and a half removed from surgery, like it should not be an issue anymore. So I don't know, man, I really don't. I don't know what to say. It's just been terrible.
I can tell you that I don't spend any time thinking that my Kyle Pitts Jersey could have been a Jamar Chase Jersey. I never think about that at all, and and how bad that is. He does have a fifth year option they picked up, so he's gonna be on this team. It's about eleven million. If you have him in Dynasty, you're hoping for the Evan Ingram path like of like.
Just told him for a few more years and he'll he'll what's.
The best case scenario for someone to have. We would say that Kyle Pits was fine as a rookie, you know, thousand yard season and then it's been nothing, and then you just hope that he turns into some type of PPR option on a team that just peppers him with targets.
But so far you.
Mentioned it's it's been slow. They haven't had the ball, they haven't converted a ton their first three weeks, like they're their third down conversions were just doodoo. So yeah, with Kyle Pitts, I don't have, like, do you have any actual advice for people other than like just bench him.
I mean, at this point, tight ends Kyle, they said they you and me, uh said this is a good year for elite tight end. It is not a good year for elite tight end spoiler, So like, who are you starting over him? I don't really know at this point. But in Dynasty, I mean, if you are a believer in Kyle Pitts, literally the price will never be lower in my opinion, or at least at this point, like a late second, early third, Like where are we at with Kyle Pitts in the trade market because he has no value to like a contender. If you are a contender, you can't rely on his fantasy production. So if you're in a rebuild, like I guess, it's okay assuming the cost is of obviously very very minimal, but I would not be paying I would not be paying fair price whatever that is in your league. For Kyle Pitts, itould only be if I can get him on a low ball.
Offer rest of season. Kyle Pitts or Tucker Craft.
I think Tucker Craft.
I think so too, sadly. Anyway, speaking of Packers, Mike, you are up next a player that you have loved, yeah, and brought up a lot this offseason.
Yeah, it is don Tavian Wick's season. Well sort of, because the I feel like the injury news on Christian Watson has kind of bounced back and forth of Visually, it looked like that dude's toasts. I mean just full body bent over backwards with the foot planted. That's never good. Ruled out immediately, and now they're like, you know, high ankle sprain, but we're not gonna put him on ir it. Maybe it's a little more mild than we thought. So I don't know how long Christian Watson's gonna be out minimum two weeks, So I can't say it's done Tavian Wick's season, but we'll at least get a couple of good weeks here, and that would be against the Rams in Arizona, so that that part of it is pretty awesome. But the guy just produces when he's on the field. It is it's odd that were this far into the season and they have like and it's still the same stuff for the Packers, like get Wicks on the field and get him going. So this past week against Minnesota, thirteen targets he only came down with for seventy eight and two, which I went back and watched everything. A lot of that was a lot was Jordan Love's fault. Dantavian did drop a like a forty yard bomb touchdown. They hit him right in the hands at the high.
He struggles with drops and I don't usually care about that stat but he kind of does.
And one of his touchdowns he he double caught that thing for sure. But like his targets for Reverendner are insane, thirty one percent. That's tied for the fifth best in the NFL. Right, look, we're talking Cooper Cup neighbors Wandale, which look, the guy's getting targeted out of east, out of control and h Rashid Rice, which you know, poured one out for Rice, and he would Jordan Love really enjoys throwing the ball to Wix. He'd like this past week, he'd like throwing the ball in the end zone. It was a strange game of I think that Wis like didn't have a catch in the first half, and it was really only a couple of targets, and they were bad targets as well, so he I mean this damage, this was all the second half and now he has this week and whatever the foreseeable future of No, the game plan is not gonna be, Hey, we're gonna prepare all four wide receivers. It's we have these three guys and this is what we got now, unless they're gonna be weird with like Bo Melton and they want they still want to have four wide receivers. I don't know, but Wis the numbers the peripherals are so out of control least, you know for his rookie year of getting the targets in the yards per outrun that this is a really exciting time period here of we get to find out, right, Like, we get to find out can Wis actually do it here when he's a full time guy with while competing for targets with Jayden Reid like that, you know, that's kind of the big thing. Last year it was this weird Hodgepodge of everyone taking turns getting injured for the Packers. So this is about this is like the optimal full strength Packers with Wis involved. So super pumped to see if he can come in here and still demand that many targets.
Do you guys think because I watched the targets too, Mike, where it's like he gets open and like when they put him in motion. Same thing with Reed. It's just it's a creative offense. I feel like he's a better athlete than an actual NFL wide receiver like he could be.
I mean, he was a which is a round pick.
We don't care for fantasy, you know, we we just want somebody who can consistently get targeted. Thirty one percent is insane. I went back and watched that Eagles game in Week one and he had two two drops another one where it's just out of sync. So I think that's part of him just earning trust. And now they're at the point where, like he makes plays, that's good enough, he's going to be in every down wide receiver. So yeah, I mean in Dynasty, it's he's kind of elevated to like every week flex and right now in Redraft, he's like the waiver wire pickup.
Yeah yeah, I will say real quick too, just on last week's numbers, and it's it's super exciting because I mean, you see thirteen targets like Tucker Crafts on nine, You're like, oh my gosh, like these this volume is insane. They were trailing literally the entire team, and in the second half, I mean, Jordan Love threw the ball forty times. I don't know, so just the overall volume I think will come down collectively, but the efficiency is off the charts. And if you've been holding him or like you kind of you know, traded for him as like an up and coming like hot name last this past summer, you're gonna be rewarded, I think with a couple of awesome weeks to play him. I mean the Rams, the Cardinals, and the Texans the next three weeks. That's a pretty juicy schedule.
I want to throw out really quickly Justin Fields, because I went back and watched all of his pass attempts, which for Justin Fields was a lot. He was twenty two of thirty four through for three twelve and he ran ten times for two teddies.
It wasn't looking great. At the beginning of that game. No, no, it was vintage Fields A couple sad.
I think it's Jordan Love, you know, it's like, no, okay, I have the quarterback one on the week and then the Steelers. This came from Schefter today that the Steelers are preparing for Justin Fields to start versus the Cowboys because Russell Wilson is quote having a strong work day on Tuesday. What did you guys take that to mean strong work day?
No idea. I like having it being what we're four weeks in. And yeah, it looked at Fields. It looked really bad for the first for the most of the game, but then things really clicked. They almost came back and won. They only lost by three. I can't I can't imagine a team that's three and one with Fields playing overall well. I mean, what sucks is he's not playing well for our fantasy teams, Like it's just it's good. Well, this week, what's fantastic, But overall it's just been It's okay. But this isn't the fantasy football breaking scoring that we've gotten from Justin Fields, the Chicago Bear starter. But he's been good. He's executing the Steelers offense. I it would. It's weird to me that eve when don't ask about Russell Wilson. Stop it, like, let fields let him play and then if he plays his way out of the job and you're like, we've lost, you know, two or three in a row. Okay, fine, let's talk about Russell Wilson. Would who wasn't that great the last time we saw him? Anyway, So let's these are nonsense statements. Just let fields roll.
Fields has been good in the in the sense of the throws outside the numbers. You saw that in week one, that's all he threw, and then this past week against Pickens, I feel like they actually had some chemistry. There's a couple where it was just like right there an end zone target that went off his hands, and then he looked pretty good with the youth. There was like a Stafford kind of like side armed frisbee throw that he that he got the youth on a first down, Like I think he's actually executing the offense. Well, yeah, and they have some offensive line industries, so I think injuries, so I think you are going to get some more passing volume. And so I just wanted to bring that up for Pickens and the m youth that I think that they're going to be solid starts every single week. This team is twelfth in EPA per past, literally right behind the Texans so far. They're obviously not throwing as much as these other teams. But I will say this about Arthur Smith. He had some weird games with the Falcons and Desmond Ridder where they just threw a ton and Desmond Ridder had like a you know, a couple of like crazy fantasy outputs because they just couldn't run the ball. So I wonder with all their injuries with Warren Patterson, Nase's you know, he's not old busted, but he is old on the field. It feels that way.
Yeah.
Man, the Colts entering and still they are dead last against the run in terms of total yards. I think entering last week at least they were what didnaji it was like ten for nineteen or something like that.
It was little bets. I don't know if you had like this is very selfish. I'm taking over, but Kyle and I are the League of Record team of doom. We big brained it. Man. We've Corderyl Patterson and the dude was heating up he was like, if they said, okay, Naji, we giving you the ball, enough, go ahead, Patterson, the dude was absolutely getting work done. And then of course he leaves the game with an injury. But the fact that Patterson looked that good.
He looked great.
And then Naji he had a couple of big plays I think on a reception or something, but on the ground. Oh there it is thirteen thirteen for nineteen sweet lord, one and a half a carry. Oh my goodness.
So with that in mind, Coy mentioned Jill Moore and banged up, probably not playing this week, Cordell Patterson ankle injury, naj running through quicksand like, if you get more dropbacks for justin fields, I think we could see some of the rushing that we've been so used to also come back. And you mentioned the Dousman Ritter fantasy games. Some of those I remember, Like he's getting carries around the goal line in Atlanta. Get that from fields like we saw last week, you got some really nice days for fantasy.
Yeah, if you're in super flex and he was your quarterback three four, like you weren't hoping for anything. You've gotten to the point where you've been able to start him as opposed to some of these other guys. And you've seen the floor and then we saw ceiling outcomes, so it does look pretty good. I feel like we need to come up with some term or name for these running backs that go thirteen for nineteen, the you know what Javonte or Swift did for a long time, Rashad White, Like, there is a term for when you hit that mark? What is that per carry one point?
What are you trying?
Like?
There's got to be something running back?
I'm calling him mud runners, but.
That was mud butt. They got some mud butt.
Look they'd running in mud and they got mudding their pants.
Hey, Swift got out of it though. This past week Swift said I don't want to be a part of that group anymore, and he actually broke out. So, uh, let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about old people. Ah, the geriatric I mean, that's a huge part of our listeners, is the I don't know, sixty and overcrowd. They love it, they love the show, and so we wanted to make sure that we talked about the old players, which are pretty much all younger than us. But we're gonna talk about him anyway. Last year on the show, we talked about old bland and undervalued. We talked about Keenan Allen, my boy who was wide receiver three points per game.
And then this year I went and I watched I watched this recent game of Keenan. Did you do that Kyle I.
Have I can't, I can't do it.
Yet he looks fine. Oh really yeah, he looked like. I mean, he's out there, he's out there blocking, he's out there getting open. Caleb is like, the game is well, the offensive line for Chicago is like I feel like if ever there's four rushers against five offensive linemen and they get through, like you got you only twenty pushups right there on the spot, Like we're not running the next play until y'all do some up downs because this is ridiculous. But he looked. I thought, Keenan Allen looked fine. And that is just the line in Caleb Williams of the game's too fast for him at this moment.
I feel like this is a moment where you don't want to, like you know what things are bad, but like you don't want to, like I want to shield myself from it. Emotionally speaking, like my grandpa like, I don't want to see him like this, and so that's what I feel like with Keenan.
Uh.
Caleb is a train wreck though, and we've brought that up a couple of times. It's it's been bad. We also brought up James Connor last year as an old player who's undervalued and then down the stretch, if he had James Connor, he won people. League also talked about Raheem Mostert as another player. But we're first going to talk about players that are old and.
Busted, old, busted.
Ah, we haven't used that one in a while, Mike, No, we have not.
No, we have not.
That's I will let you go first because I think you have a player that is expiring, So we might as well talk about him as much as we can now because he might not be on this team.
Well, we just got news as of our recording that Devonte Adams has told the Raiders, according to Ian Rapport, that he has preferred to be traded.
Uh. But let's talk about DeVante because you think that's because his coach is being big time weirdo and liking publicly liking posts about him being traded. Dude.
That was and then the business decision thing comment like, yeah, it's weird vibes in Las Vegas, very weird. But Devonte Adams, you have that whole thing in this equation, right, It's like, where is he playing football? Probably not this, but in two weeks, three weeks, as we get closer to the trade deadline, if he's not on this team, where does he go? And I think a lot of people are gonna say, oh, look, if he goes to the Jets, you know he'll have Aaron Rodgers. We're gonna talk about Aaron Rodgers, I know on the show. But as far as Devonte himself, he was a guy that I know on the main show, Jason brought up as a potential bust in Best Ball, I brought up as a potential bust. We talked about him as a trade away candidate last year on this show because the warning signs were all there of like, hey, DeVante Adams has been great. No one is ever going to argue that, but right now it is not great. And in fact, the efficiency numbers have been rapidly falling off every single year, and to me, like that's when you just have to be willing to get out. It may be too late but I think it's already there. His fantasy points for outrun, his yards for outrun, and his open score have all fallen off in five straight seasons. And when you see a decline happen just year over year over year over year. Yeah, some of it's quarterback play. Yeah, some of its team level stuff, but like at some point that all comes back to the player as well. So now he's going to be thirty two in December, on Christmas Eve. Actually, and that is the point where in Marv's research in the Dynasty Pass found the most number of the highest percentage of players at wide receiver that tend to decline as far as their previous season and career production falls off a cliff that is at thirty two. Then you have the conversation of Okay, now next year, where is he in the trade market? In the Dynasty startup market, It's going to be non existent in terms of his value. So I'm hoping he goes somewhere where like people in my league are so excited about, oh he went to Aaron Rodgers or oh he went I don't think it's happening, but people are excited about the Chiefs or wherever he goes. I'm using it as the window of like, this is the last chance to trade away de Bonta Adams and live with it because unfortunately it happens to all the best wide receivers in the league.
What's your strategy in these kind of moments in Dynasty where you get this spin of news and media stuff and Bets is saying like, Hey, I'm trying to trade away this player because the on the other side says it's, Oh, it's gonna get better, It's gonna be good. I tend to be a person that just kind of says like, I'm not buying into whatever hypeer grasses greener situation. I'm waiting for my opponents to make a mistake. But maybe that's too passive. How do you guys handle these things?
I mean, yeah, I guess for this year there Look, there's there's places he could go that would it would be exciting. And the the the decline of open scores that's more concerning, like his his targets and yards and stuff per route run. I don't know, like I don't know how much I put on Adams. You know, look, if he's older, everyone it everyone expires. It happens. But when you go from seventy eight percent catch rate seventy three percent catch rate that's in Green Bay, and then you're down to fifty six and fifty nine percent of you you've caught of your targets like that. That's not Devonte Adams. That's the quarterback play has been atrocious for Vegas. So I guess, like if I have if I have Adams, I guess if you're not a contending team, then fine. But if I'm anywhere, if I'm anything other than this is a rebuild and this team is going nowhere, I'm going to have a top five pick, top three pick. I'm just gonna hold on to Adams because I would rather make a push now, even if it's a failed push to make the playoffs and the championship. Other than because it's like what can you get, I don't you're not getting a one for Adams. I don't think unless all of a sudden he go if somehow the salary cap works and he goes to Kansas City, people will lose their minds for that, then you could probably get a one immediately. But like overall, he's he's gonna be thirty two, just what do you bets if you see yourself trading away Adams? What is that you imagine you're getting?
You know, Like, I think a really realistic trade offer would probably be like an early second, a second and a third something like that.
Would you take that?
I would probably take that. So yeah, unless I'm like going for it this year. Otherwise I'm taking it because think about this, Think about in four months, right, Like, we have a very short term window where he could still have value. A thirty two year old wide receiver who's probably changing teams, who all the all the efficiency numbers are.
Just falling falling, falling, falling.
Like usually the guys, even the elites, don't bounce back in their age thirty two to thirty three seasons. So I am I think this is the last chance on any try to sort of trade value for DeVante.
I think in name value, i'd have to hold out for a one and just see how things change. And I'm assuming we're on the side that things will change, right, Like, I don't.
As far as he'll be trading, yes, I think most likely, Yeah, probably he's to his credit number one watching Devanta Adams in in interviews and things like, I like him so much more like he he he seems like a real genuine guy. He had he wanted to go to Vegas and play with Derek Carr, and then the team just hosed him. Like at if I were Adams at that point, if if if the rumors are true that so much of him wanted to go play with the Raiders. Was he wanted to go play with Derek Carr, his old his old college buddy, and then they trade that guy. It would have been I would have gone nuclear on that team of like, no, you're trading me, like I'm I'm not here to be with with just this. I was here for all these other reasons and you brought me here on your false pretenses, you're now gonna trade me away Like I would have lost it. And to Adam's credit, he was He tried to be a good just a good human, a good team and be like, no, man, it's okay, I'll be here with the Raiders. We'll we'll we'll rebuild from this situation. And it's been again. The quarterback play has been so bad. Imagine like, yes, he's getting financially, he's getting taken care of, but there's other things in life, like he wants to succeed, he wants to win, he wants to have a good time, he wants he wants to catch the ball more than half of the time. So for him, I can't believe that he hasn't made the ruckus. That leads me to the point of if he is now truly saying I'm done with this crap. I think that he will force force the team to make the trade and there will be teams interested in DeVante Adams.
Yeah, if you real quick before we move on, if you watched the Receiver documentary on Netflix, it just kind of gave you a peek behind the curtain of like how bad it was with Jimmy G.
Like doesn't that feel like four years ago?
Like that was last year, forever of the year, And I just I picture Monday neet football, Devonte wide open for seventy yard touchdown or whatever and Jimmy G can't even hit him, just where the frustration was boiling them. But yeah, I hope I'm wrong, Like I hope he does bounce back and have a really strong end of the year. But you have the hamstring injury, plus changing teams and what I said with the value as far as his efficiency numbers. So I still think I'm trying to capitalize anything I can, but I'm rooting for the human being for sure. I think it's going to be hopefully better for him if he does move on.
Also, just quick side here, let Davonte Adams the path of him as a player. Let's let's let him teach us just a little bit of patience. I get it into fantasy football. You got to make moves quick. You want to react immediately. But Davante Adams is now looked upon as one of the best wide receivers to play ever in the NFL. He's been elite. He's been elite for fantasy football. It took him a while, guys. It's it's it's like he had two horrifically bad years. So just just saying that if we have, if you love a player, maybe we should be a little bit more graceful and cut them a little bit of slack. I hear you.
Taris Marshall has gone through the mud.
Sure, not him, but other guys.
Adams is one of the few players to come from the grave in terms of a lot of efficiency stuff and then become an all timer. I wanted to pair that conversation with my old bust at, which is Aaron Rodgers, and what it means for the Jets players. So we could speculate all day. If Adams ends up on the Jets, he's the betting favorite, whatever that means. I don't think this is a knock on. Can Aaron Rodgers make the throw because if you watch them the game, especially that Thursday night primetime game, he made so many throws that you were just like, that's money, that's Aaron Rodgers. We know they rolled him out. It was great. It's more of what this offense is at this stage of his career with Nathaniel Hackett, who I'll say this again, I don't think he should have a job in the NFL, but he still does. They've been super conservative on fourth down, super conservative, lack of motion and despite this team throwing the ball more than you would think, like you think, oh, it's defense. They're one of the few teams the positive pass rate over expectation Aaron Rodgers guys is thirty third and completion percentage over expectation. He is only a head of guys named Trevor Lawrence Bonix, Anthony Richardson, and Bryce Young in terms of passes and completion completion percentage and expectation.
Is that the through the four weeks.
That's through the four weeks.
Do you have the number of through the three weeks? Now? I can.
I can sort through before.
That game like it was. That was a wet, nasty game in that Bronx just fart. Yeah. Well, I'm saying like he completed fifty seven percent of his passes a week after completing seventy seven percent against the Patriots. I'm just that game happened. I'm just saying that that matchup of the Jets and the Broncos was I'm abnormal for sure. I've got it right here, Mike. He was eighteenth out of thirty one qualifiers three. That's you would hope for better for Rogers. But that's sure, that's not not as gloom and doom. But continue to tell me why do you hate Rogers.
I think the thing with the Rogers is what they've asked him to do and what he's still good at, like the off platform and in tight windows, back shoulder stuff. Still good at that. And you're seeing with Alan Lazard more so than Wilson. And we'll talk about Wizard a little bit later, but under center and play action has not worked at all. Play action so far, the only person who has a lower YPA on play action is Bryce Young. Over the course of the like, it just hasn't worked.
But the problem is he's still that handoff bresee.
Apparently it's not working. But that that's what Braylen Allen stinks at.
I don't know, he's a fourth rounder.
Yeah, that that's the part that the coaches didn't like. He hasn't been pressured that much because he's been getting the ball out so fast. Only Baker is getting the ball out faster. The problem is it's been short a lot of low a dot stuff, And I'm looking at the wide receivers on this team and what they're good at. Okay, Garrett Wilson against man coverage, he is unbelievable. I think we're all gonna say separation artist. He can do that when he gets pressed though. He is actually a different wide receiver, and you've seen that this year. The only wide receivers with the lower EPA per target on press Dj Moore and sorry Mike Brandon ayuk uh.
Oh, you don't have to be Sorryble.
And then you look at the other wide receivers. It's like, we know what Lazard is as like a Rogers favorite, but he's not going to be a guy that like always separates. It's going to be they're on the same page on a play. Mike Williams is a one on one like throw it, go ball. He had a nice catch this past week. And then it's Tyler Conklin, who's fine as a possession receiver. But it's like the end of the day, they don't have quite the burners that other people have to be able to beat people deep. And Rogers has struggled against so ownes. So I bring that up because I can't really see with their defense them being in better game scripts where they have to throw. It's like the volumes down. He's not the same player in a lot of different ways, and unless they change things up, like it's gonna kind of be the same thing. We keep saying the same thing with Wilson. It's like, ah, it's a bad matchup. Next week, Minnesota, week after that, Buffalo, then it's Pittsburgh, then it's New England.
That sucks.
It does suck, But at the end of the day, there are certain wide receivers that just like justin Jefferson just says, I don't care who it is. I don't care who the matchup is. So I bring all that up because Rogers and what he's doing the rest of the weapons is just kind of stagnating this team. And they're gonna win games, they're gonna be in it. They should have won that game against the Broncos, but it's taking everyone else down. And he's kind of this fine version like but but not like difference making for fantasy. So I wanted to bring that up.
I would jump in and say, I like, I'm gonna give them a little bit more time of like this is you know, we we pointed to Adams right or Adams first few years in the league. It just it wasn't working. And if you the uh the there there's a play. I'm sure you guys saw it, but you know it's it's Garrett essentially running just to go but like in the middle of the field, and it looked like Rogers wanted him to maybe Rogers wanted him to do something clear like maybe stop or whatever or shift the route a little bit, and he was expecting that and he threw the ball there and Wilson just kept going and then the camera went It's just a super zoom right on Rogers face and I'm like, oh, I make that face to my kids all the time, Like that was the face of like what are you doing? You know what you're supposed to be doing and you are not doing it. It's a it's a hilarious clip. But then I saw Matt Ryan, who I don't know, look, Matt Ryan's I've talked about it. I think Matt Ryan was a fantastic quarterback. I don't know much of his personality, but he's doing football talk now. He got himself a big fancy suit job and they're like, Matt, what do you think about this? And he said Rogers needs to pull everyone in and say to what they're talking about getting on the same page. He's this is Matt Ryan this, So I thought this was kind of wild. Matt Ryan says, Aaron Rodgers needs to go to all of them and say you are going to get on my page. You're going to get on my page right now, and just stuff like this' I mean really like a scolding, like an old man dad scolding people for doing the wrong thing. And I was like, whoat Matt Ryan coming with the spiciness, not of like a collaborative team. Is no, you say I'm the quarterback, You're gonna do things the way that I think that you should do them, and so it's it's it sucks because I think it's going to take a while. These are all the growing pains we didn't get to see last year. We had the high hope, so we got to see nothing. Aaron Rodgers had a couple months of training camp with this team, no real live game action to see how Yeah, he sees how his players are going to respond in a practice, but that's a practice against your defense who knows you, And like, this isn't the variables of a real game. We're seeing that happen right now and I think that over the second half of the year it will get better. But in the meantime, it's like if you got Garrett Wilson, I I can't give you much hope for the next month. It's going to be brutal.
Matt Ryan has this famous moment where he told Austin Hooper it's not family friendly words, but he basically said, you get set and he screamed it miked up to the point where he gets replayed sometimes. Oh yeah, no, he he was a different person in the huddle, but very respected and very loved. And I know I'm speaking as an Atlanta guy, but him and Julio just work together.
Man love, Yeah, sat Page, But it's saying that that's what's missing. It's I don't think it's that Aaron Rodgers can't make the throw. I don't think it's that Garrett Wilson can't run the route. It's the pinpoint accuracy, the mind meld that he that Rogers has had with a few receivers over his career. It is not there with with Wilson.
Yet, painful, Bets, It's painful, not set.
Within the league.
To get back on track, the boys need to sit down for eight hours on a flight London this week. We'll just hash it out and I'll tell you were gonna be warning in some ayahuasca. Well that also, but yeah, a nice little eight hour flight over to London and uh they'll get to figure it out, hopefully, hopefully.
All right, Mike, you're gonna sadly finish this off with somebody who is old and could be busted. We don't want him to be though.
Yeah, it's really hard to know what to do with this one, guys, because it's just it's the topic of everything right now. It's Mark Andrews, who is not old for a for a tight end. He's not, he's twenty nine. But it's is there a Is there a pick that feels worse right now in fantasy football? Nope? Because nope, this isn't. Look you you drafted Christian McCaffrey in redraft or whatever. You can't start him. He's not hurting you. He's just he's hurting your bench because you have to find other players to play. You're playing Mark Andrews right now. And we got the worst pump fake that we could possibly get right now. Of week one, it was awful. I can figure that out. I know what happened. Week two, everything will be okay. And it was like it wasn't you know, Hey, I got a one hundred yards and a touchdown. But it was a good game, especially for what's going on with tight ends right now. And then that turned into one target, one target nothingness, absolute nothingness, and I am struggling here, like what do you do? What do you do in a dynasty league where you can't really if you're gonna go get another tight end. You're gonna have to go make a move if you happen to have a backup tight end who you can use on your roster, congratulations, because most teams don't don't have that luxury. So just what are we doing here with Mark Andrews where it feels like his his long term value even though it's only four weeks, but his long term value is is he are people gonna look at him like a top twelve tight end in Dynasty anymore?
Right now? He's not like keep trade cut, which is gets the pulse of how people are feeling they have n't met Tighten sixteen, which just feels very low for people overreacting, like could you get a bag of beans for Mark Andrews right now?
What is this Jack and the beanstalk over here?
Yeah, I'm telling you, like I'd rather have the magic beans. But I can't imagine trading him away. I feel like he's one of those players like you're just gonna gamble that you get him for the cheap, Like would you trade for Mark Andrews.
For that's the better question?
A seconds?
The cost a second? I think that's probably okay if you are I don't think it is done late.
First, No, I'm not doing that with what would have I mean it just no great, like some of it is some of it is him, Like watching that in a game and it was just Max pain, I mean Collinsworth just drilling it in. Like his blocking has been so good, Like stop talking.
About his blocking. Man, we don't need that, we need routes. But if he can do that, that means that he's like he's not a washed player. That's what I'm saying, is that. But then he did drop that ball. It was like, oh my goodness. Yeah, but I was shocked. I know he was like, oh my Goodness'm actually gonna target.
But the fact that I agree with you, I don't think it's like him as a player is just like completely done again. The best players at the positions generally have a nice kind of like steady slope off of the decline. It happens very quickly with average to blow average players. I'd say Mark Andrews is a very good player. He's been for years that I'm expecting his career slowly over time, as all players do, to decline. I'm not expecting it to go from Oh he was actually number one in points per game of all Fantasy tight ends last year before his injury to completely irrelevant toast. So I think this is a rare buying window for a player who again and tight end to twenty nine years old is not that old. If it's a second to get him, I'm in. If it's a first, I do get queasy about that. But there is a little window here where it's like, literally, it can't get worse for Mark Andrews, right, and with how tight ends scoring is.
Could it get worth.
No, it can't. It can't because it's been too zero. He put up zero points in a row.
I started might get sicky too. It was worse.
So I think there's a little window here where I'm fading the idea that it's all of him, And I'm more I think Todd Monkin's offense is awesome for Fantasy. Is very annoying because he gained plans in certain ways and some weeks they'll run the ball over and over again. In some weeks, Justice Hill is getting six targets, you know, So like that's very annoying. But as far as the player level, I don't think it's completely gone with Mark Andrews. I just think we're in a little bit of a blip right now where the usage has been very, very frustrating.
I'm gonna give you some quick names. Would you rather have in Dynasty Cole Comet or Mark.
Andrews, Mark Andrews, Mark Andrews, Yeah.
Yeah, Dallas Gotter or Mark Andrews. I think I would say I.
Would I would still take Andrews. Yeah. Yeah.
Here's the hard one. Would you rather have Isaiah Likely or Mark Andrews in Dynasty?
Well, that is the question, is yeah, that that's a it's a piece of the puzzle of like the snaps are down, the routes are down for for Mark Andrews, and like in eleven personnel we're seeing more Isaiah Likely when they're like there's one tight end on the field that it's not just automatically Mark Andrews. That is highly concerning, Like is it the Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Is it the ankle? Is it the car accident? I don't I don't think we have an answer.
I'm glad you brought that up because I I forgot about that too. Actually, the car accident happened. It was like the second week of August and he missed about two and a half three weeks of practice, and so it's like, oh, okay, now we at least have maybe some context as to why he wasn't playing his full route share in the first two three four weeks. If we look back at like December and we're like, oh, yeah, remember Mark Andrews like he was fine down the stretch, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a factor. And the tough part about that is we don't know what specifically the injury was and how much it affected him. But that is something that I think a lot of people have just completely forgotten about, is that car accident in August.
His ankle injury was very similar to Tony Pollard's, right, am I remembering that? Correct? Yeah? And it took Tony Pollard months before before he said he was I mean I think it was like week fourteen before he said he actually felt good, So it was very late. So that's I mean, that doesn't help for fantasy football this year. To know that that's a possibility of you're talking week ten plus before Mark Andrews feels like himself. Whethering that storm is extremely difficulty.
It makes me feel sad. That a month ago on this show, we had our Dynasty boll predictions and mine was isay Likely becomes the top twelve Dynasty tied end and under it, I wrote, but I'm not saying that Mark Andrews gets injured. I just didn't know it was gonna be like this, guys.
Yeah, and it's not the look Likely had week one. He's not tearing it up this whole Uh. We didn't bring Derrick Henry in to run the ball twenty four to twenty five times a week, mister Harbaugh. I'm looking at the game log. I guess I shouldn't complain because I have Dereck Henry and he's It's been fantastic, guys. It has been just a great ride with the King.
Just you ride that King, all right, for into glory.
Into the ground, and me and Henry we'll go down together.
All right, Let's take quick break and then we'll talk about some old undervalued players. All right, there's's dynasty players on your roster right now that maybe going to the season you know they were going to be stalwarts for your team. But really that's what makes the format so unbelievable is that you have guys that you've been stashing and they turn out super.
Well, old, bland and undervalued.
The drafts are really just like this, like this patchwork here is there is not a The vibe is all over the place.
Pop goes to. The weasel is still a vibe though. The kids, it's a vibe. The kids call it a bop these days. That's you're gonna start us off first. We're gonna go a little quicker here. But man, Chris Godwin has been so consistent.
Yeah, you got that, baby Rod Godwin. Yeah, it's been actually awesome to see.
Now.
The conversation on Godwin for the last couple of years has been, like, you know, he's just not a touchdown score. We're actually seeing that this year. And if you look at some of his target volume over the last two three years, it's still been very, very strong. He just hasn't really had the variants of the touchdowns. We're seeing that come now. But I think for me, the conversation on Chris Godwin is just where does he go beyond this year? Because I think he's kind of plugged in as like a wide receiver two slash three for your team every single week. With that move back to the slot. He is leading the Bucks in target share, The peripherals are strong, Your arts drout run looks really good, Your arts per target looks really good, better than Mike Evans. So I think this year this is decently sticky moving forward. I think Mike Evans is going to have his weeks obviously, But Chris Godwin, you know, he's kind of at that tipping point in fantasy value where it's like, you know, he's what twenty eight point six, so next year he'll be twenty nine. Does he have another big contract because right now he's in a contract year, So he gets one more year, then where does he go. So he's a guy that I'm really interested in having for the rest of the season, but I'm not sure what his value is beyond this show year. But if you have Chris Godwin, he looks very very strong for the season.
Yeah, there's some younger wide receivers that I have on some of my Dynasty rosters that I'm like, Man, if I'm going for it this year, do I want to flip these guys like like JSN long term I obviously want, but like rest of year, I'd rather have Chris Godwin. And so you kind of start to play that game of going back and forth. Like Zay Flowers is a great player to compare, It's like, ah, they're at different stages of their career. Are we ever going to get this volume from Flowers that we want? Are they just low eight out targets? So like rest of season, I think we would both want Chris Godwin. All want Chris Godwin over Flowers?
Right?
Yes, Now in Dynasty, would you make that flip if you were a contender?
Hoofed? Uh?
So it's close.
I think that's what I think.
You could probably get something you if you're going to make a move like that, you got to get something back on top of Godwin. Yes, Like like Flowers was a very strong prospect, had a great rookie year. I'm not open that straight up by any means.
Okay, Mike, you have a wide receiver.
Here that is Ryan is disgusting. Uh And I didn't I honestly after week one I thought that was completely a fluke. But Alan Laizard, Aaron Rodgers bff on this team like it had week one was was very fluky and had you know, like it was a broken play and then it was a backup quarterback. But at the same time. Overall, you know, for the four weeks, Garrett Wilson seeing twenty six percent of the targets, Alan Lazard's at eighteen percent, like Alan Lizard has that has that connection with Rogers of Lizard is, well, he's gigantic, but he's not the athletic freak that Garrett Wilson is. But Rogers knows exactly where he's gonna be and he's just like he was. He might have been on your waiver wire. And this is if you're in a double flex, this this is a usable player of He's not going to be a superstar, but I think that he is. He's probably undervalued at this point where twenty percent of the team's first retargets Like it's it's I think he's going to be okay. Before the season.
If your team has two starting flex spots, I feel like you're going to be in the.
Matchups a double flex. He's he's a playable guy.
Yeah, there's a lot of guys that were kind of trying to pencil in and it's like, I hope this works out, but like I hate it's not a great bar but like a top forty eight wide receiver or a top you know, thirty six wide receiver. That's awesome. That's hard to find that you thought of being in the season. This player is worthless, I mean to be honest. In Best Ball, I laughed at people when they took Alan Lazard, yeah, because I was like, oh, this guy's nothing, Like why are you taking this player? And Malachi Corley a player that we kind of talked about a lot in the prospect season. I have maybe heard his name twice this year year.
See he's not getting on the field.
Yeah.
And meanwhile, it was like Lazard, you know, fifty eight yards in the in the the game that I'm kind of throwing away forty only forty eight against the Patriots, but we're already at three touchdowns for Lizard if he finishes at ten that I'm not going to be surprised in the slightest. Yeah.
Lozard's wild right like last year. Guys remember last year when I mean the Jets season was just complete.
They do that way.
But I was gonna say he was almost off the roster, Like there was talks of like do they cut him? Do they just yeah, bench him? And he doesn't even want to be there, you know. And now it's like he's got his boy back. My question is what happens if they get de Vos Adams. Who's the loser here? Because Lazard is staying on the field with Aaron Rodgers, so it's just another dynamic. But yeah, he's been valuable. If you, like you said, if you had him, you were like, I guess I'll just hang on to this guy until he retires and drop him. But you're starting him in double flex league, So yeah, he's valuable.
Who's the loser? I mean, Mike Willie's getting paid what ten million?
If they one year fifteen if they trade for Adams, that feels like Mike Williams would go back to the Raiders. Poor guy.
He's like, I want to team up with Rogers.
Oh I'm yeah he does. But also that like he got a lot of money for to come repair his ACL.
He he's like one of my favorite fantasy players. I know he won bets a huge tournament years ago in DFS. It's just perfect for fantasy where you know that he's gonna bust you know what he is.
I'll always can him.
Yeah, Mike Willie's awesome. I want her to bring up Geno Smith because I think would all say that he's good and maybe like better, better than good. I'm not gonna go to great, but like, no, he's.
A very good quarterback. And this one feels good because he was one of those guys that had got thrown in the garbage this offseason and I was like, yeah, I think that Gino is still good. I think that Shane Waldron sucks and uh and uh yeah, Chicago, how's it going there with Shane Waldron?
I mean, Gino is on pace guys for over five thousand passing yards that won't hold up, but still, I mean, forty five hundred is still an insane total. The TD rate has been the thing that we've kind of been like, ah, two point five percent. It's just one touchdown, one touchdown every single week. But man, if you're getting forty pass attempts per game, which is where he's at, that is wild stuff in superflex leagues right now, if you have Gino as your QB two, you have to be feeling great. Before the season, he was kind of seen as well, it's this final year, they'll move on. They don't really like him. I look back and I kind of forgot about this. Do you guys know that he's been with the Seahawks since twenty nineteen.
Wow, wasn't back for a year or two.
Yeah, he was back up not doing anything, and it took him a while twenty twenty two when he had that breakout season. Last year was a bit of a down one in terms of statistics. But I looked at his contract situation because they restructured some stuff back in February. His dead cap for this next year is thirteen and a half, so you know, theoretically they could move on, but he's also playing his way to getting another contract. And I think in a league where we're just asking for competent play, he's been really, really good. This is a system where you know, Ryan Grubb, it's working. This team's three and one. They were right there with the Lions, by the way in that game. So my question is does he get another contract extensions?
I think he's I think it does. I think it's probably Seattle. I mean the NFL, they look if you're if your job is put out this product of a football team that your fans like, that you have a chance to win, and you're looking out across the NFL at how many teams don't have a a capable starting quarterback. And it's like, like even when you tear it all down, man, like, look at the Jags are they are the Jaguars in a better situation than the Seahawks right now with like that they they tore it all down, they drafted the generational talent, they had to give him all this money, and like, who's who's a better quarterback right now? Gino Smith is better. He's a better quarterback than Trevor so too. It's is Geno like the he's not at the he's not an elite like one of these guys are like, oh, it's it's my homes. But he is a very good starting quarterback. And if you fix that, what other leaks you have on the team. I do think that Geno is is good enough that you can make a run in the playoffs.
The statistics we give every single years, a third of the league essentially changes over their starting quarterback from a week one one year to week one the next year. So you start to go through the names of the teams, You're like, I mean some of these teams that they're trying to figure it out with rookie quarterbacks, and you give them a couple of years, but I mean, so many of these teams are just they're gonna be figuring out next year. And so I think Geno is one of those players that you may have missed your window because the volume is starting to catch up and people are starting to see like, oh, it's there. But man, he's been undervalued. Hopefully you have him as like a QB two, as a QB three. He's a luxury that you know, I wouldn't say you trade him away, but man, that's that's that's good stuff, and hopefully things just break out. I feel like we're still waiting for that game where you know, one of these wide receivers goes for two touchdowns or js. I mean, Jayson had that big week two Lockett's been fine, Like Lockett was actually pretty good on Monday Night as well, but I'm still waiting for them to all put it together. They got bone zoned on a Monday night.
So that that's still my biggest album with supporting Gino Smith is I need Kenneth or Ken bone Walker to get all the touchdowns. So I like, I'm loving what Gino's doing at that two and a half percent. It's great.
Gino's just stopping right there right at like the two or three.
That's fine. Or throw it to Walker that's fine too.
Look I'm not being peak picky here, but yeah, you could just throw throw a few again Walker, that'd be great.
They did have a string of like four straight incompletions at the goal line. It was in the fourth quarter. I was just like, ah, this is not working just I mean, they were down two touchdowns. They couldn't run the ball. But I was like, I bet Ken could get in there.
Yeah you could.
So that's gonna do it for this episode. Like I said, we will be talking more trades. You can also go to our baller's discord ballersdiscord dot com if you want to talk through some dynasty folk, talk through superflex stuff. It's all there and we'll talk to you again next week.
Goodbye, everybody.
Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast. If you want to take your dynasty skills to the next level, check out the Fantasyfootballers dot Com