You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the show and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we're picking up right where we left off on the previous episode. We're joined by Zach Levitt, producer and creator of the podcast Root of Evil. Last episode, we revealed what was left on the cutting room floor of Root of Evil, including new information about the true relationship between George Hodell and Fauna Hodel. We continue that conversation now.

You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the show and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we're picking up right where we left off on the previous episode. We're joined by Zach Levitt, producer and creator of the podcast Root of Evil. Last episode, we revealed what was left on the cutting room floor of Root of Evil, including new information about the true relationship between George Hodell and Fauna Hodel. We continue that conversation now.

So we now know for a fact that George Hodell was not our mother's father, not the father.

So we now know for a fact that George Hodell was not our mother's father, not the father.

Nope.

Nope.

But wait for it, y'all. Wait for it, y'all. We know who her father is.

But wait for it, y'all. Wait for it, y'all. We know who her father is.

We knew that George Hodel was not our mother's father in the year twenty eighteen. Yes, so, mister Zach Levitt, can you tell us and our listeners? Of course we know, but tell our listeners why that fact was not in Root of Evil.

We knew that George Hodel was not our mother's father in the year twenty eighteen. Yes, so, mister Zach Levitt, can you tell us and our listeners? Of course we know, but tell our listeners why that fact was not in Root of Evil.

At the time. I was so upset about it not being in the podcast, and I wanted an opportunity to talk about it, and it was something that I thought about day and night for months and months and months. I was devastated, and I can use that word. I was devastated, absolutely, And I don't want to get ahead of the story, but I just I'm going to circle back in a second. But my point is that I wanted to talk about it so badly, even though I wasn't quite sure how to. And we spoke about it many, many times, and I could have come out on Twitter somewhere and said we found the results. George is not the father, but it wasn't my story to tell. And I knew that whoever revealed this news, it couldn't be me because I'm not a member of the family. You know, it was about your mother, so it was going to be the two of you that would reveal it. And I think Steve may have blogged something about it on his website. I can't I can't remember, but yes, So time went on and I saw the reaction that the audience had to the show, and you know, sometimes you don't want to fuck with that, yeah, right, And so I sort of said to myself, Okay, people love the show. Would it have been a better ending perhaps? Would it have provided closure to the family, Yes, yes, ye. Would it have prevented some possible bad feelings after the fact of well why didn't it get used? Absolutely? But you know, the audience doesn't know what they.

At the time. I was so upset about it not being in the podcast, and I wanted an opportunity to talk about it, and it was something that I thought about day and night for months and months and months. I was devastated, and I can use that word. I was devastated, absolutely, And I don't want to get ahead of the story, but I just I'm going to circle back in a second. But my point is that I wanted to talk about it so badly, even though I wasn't quite sure how to. And we spoke about it many, many times, and I could have come out on Twitter somewhere and said we found the results. George is not the father, but it wasn't my story to tell. And I knew that whoever revealed this news, it couldn't be me because I'm not a member of the family. You know, it was about your mother, so it was going to be the two of you that would reveal it. And I think Steve may have blogged something about it on his website. I can't I can't remember, but yes, So time went on and I saw the reaction that the audience had to the show, and you know, sometimes you don't want to fuck with that, yeah, right, And so I sort of said to myself, Okay, people love the show. Would it have been a better ending perhaps? Would it have provided closure to the family, Yes, yes, ye. Would it have prevented some possible bad feelings after the fact of well why didn't it get used? Absolutely? But you know, the audience doesn't know what they.

Don't know, right, right, right.

Don't know, right, right, right.

So you're always cutting things out. You're always always cutting things out of a story. There's this term don't kill don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right, and and sometimes it's a good thing. If you're losing amazing moments from a show, it can be a good thing because that means that, you know, you got to cut it down for clarity or whatever the case may be. And whatever's left is the really good stuff. And so I said to myself, Okay, people have responded, they love the show. The great stuff is in there. Move on with your life, which it took me a while. We know, yes, we do know, we know now why wasn't it in there?

So you're always cutting things out. You're always always cutting things out of a story. There's this term don't kill don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right, and and sometimes it's a good thing. If you're losing amazing moments from a show, it can be a good thing because that means that, you know, you got to cut it down for clarity or whatever the case may be. And whatever's left is the really good stuff. And so I said to myself, Okay, people have responded, they love the show. The great stuff is in there. Move on with your life, which it took me a while. We know, yes, we do know, we know now why wasn't it in there?

Tell us this is the question.

Tell us this is the question.

As everybody knows. And we began talking about making the show and what led to making the show, that this was the sister podcast or the shoulder content.

As everybody knows. And we began talking about making the show and what led to making the show, that this was the sister podcast or the shoulder content.

Whatever, companion podcast.

Whatever, companion podcast.

Yeah, companion podcast to the TNT show I Am the Knight, which was made by Patty Jenkins, who is an incredible director who directed Wonder Woman and Monster Right. Yeah, and so I said, holy shit, Okay, I'm going to be working on a podcast where you know, the person putting the show together is a massive director and her husband. Pretty cool.

Yeah, companion podcast to the TNT show I Am the Knight, which was made by Patty Jenkins, who is an incredible director who directed Wonder Woman and Monster Right. Yeah, and so I said, holy shit, Okay, I'm going to be working on a podcast where you know, the person putting the show together is a massive director and her husband. Pretty cool.

Pretty cool.

Pretty cool.

And of course going back to this idea of my first call with Sam when he mentioned, hey, the girls have these profiles of their DNA and Fauna's DNA on twenty three and meter. But I told him, don't go forward with anything until you talk to Zach and he starts doing the podcast. Now fast forward to eight months later whatever it was, where I now have the results of that DNA test that they didn't really know about. They were in the same boat as I was with not really understanding it and okay, twenty three ae meters, what is it going to tell you? No, we took it an extra step further. We put it on this other website which revealed whether Fauna was a product of incest unbeknownst to anybody. You know, this is just me making the story that I wanted to make. We have those results, and I was given to TNT's credit and everybody else's credit carte blanche to make the story that I wanted to make, and we did that unbeknownst to them. We found the results and we recorded those results. And once the people putting together I Am the Knight heard that, I think it became an issue. Well I shouldn't say I think it became an issue because the podcast was being released around the same time as the TV show, right, sister content companion podcast whatever. And that question of who Fauna's father was, whether it was George or not, is a theme in the I Am the Night.

And of course going back to this idea of my first call with Sam when he mentioned, hey, the girls have these profiles of their DNA and Fauna's DNA on twenty three and meter. But I told him, don't go forward with anything until you talk to Zach and he starts doing the podcast. Now fast forward to eight months later whatever it was, where I now have the results of that DNA test that they didn't really know about. They were in the same boat as I was with not really understanding it and okay, twenty three ae meters, what is it going to tell you? No, we took it an extra step further. We put it on this other website which revealed whether Fauna was a product of incest unbeknownst to anybody. You know, this is just me making the story that I wanted to make. We have those results, and I was given to TNT's credit and everybody else's credit carte blanche to make the story that I wanted to make, and we did that unbeknownst to them. We found the results and we recorded those results. And once the people putting together I Am the Knight heard that, I think it became an issue. Well I shouldn't say I think it became an issue because the podcast was being released around the same time as the TV show, right, sister content companion podcast whatever. And that question of who Fauna's father was, whether it was George or not, is a theme in the I Am the Night.

Show, Yeah, which is inspired loosely inspired by Mom's life, but yeah.

Show, Yeah, which is inspired loosely inspired by Mom's life, but yeah.

Ours was the true story the documentary, So that theme of who Fauna's father was was a George is and I don't remember the show, but it certainly comes up and is sort of left unanswered.

Ours was the true story the documentary, So that theme of who Fauna's father was was a George is and I don't remember the show, but it certainly comes up and is sort of left unanswered.

But that's where it leaves you thinking that George's Mom's father.

But that's where it leaves you thinking that George's Mom's father.

That's where it ends. We should say yeah.

That's where it ends. We should say yeah.

Exactly, which is certainly more interesting and goes along with the crazy story and yeah, but we have the answer, right, We actually have the answer now, Yeah, and we're going to put it out there and everybody's going to hear it, and we're going to have some closure for the actual family that inspired this story. And that was always my motivation. It had nothing to do and I say this in all sincerity. For me, it was like, I knew it would be an interesting moment for the audience, but it was about providing closure to all of you who were so generous with your time and emotions and lives and all these things. And I wanted to give that to all of you. I really wanted to, and we did, and we gave you that moment. And then I hear you need to take that out of the end of the show. I'm like, wait, what you have to take that out of the end of the show. It's going to and these are my words, this is not anybody else's words. It's going to potentially upcut the fictionalized version because we put it out there that there is no answer, and now if there is an answer, it's going to upcut it. And so when I heard that, I was floridite. So I sent the results. I sent all of this other evidence that I had gathered that repts. Yeah, all the receipts along the way there were articles written saying that George was not the father, and you know, nobody had had the proof that we had, but it had been speculated on for for years. And if anything, this is going to help the show, right, Like here, here was my sort of pitch. You know, we've we've agreed to tell this nonfiction this this this documentary story. We have it. There's this other story that is slightly you know, leaves things sort of out there in the ether. Why can't they both live together? And really the story is okay, we picked up where I Am the Night left off, right. Patty did tell me in in that conversation, you know, talk about this, tell tell this story. It just wasn't the right time for the show. And in fact, the first time I heard about DNA was from the showrunner.

Exactly, which is certainly more interesting and goes along with the crazy story and yeah, but we have the answer, right, We actually have the answer now, Yeah, and we're going to put it out there and everybody's going to hear it, and we're going to have some closure for the actual family that inspired this story. And that was always my motivation. It had nothing to do and I say this in all sincerity. For me, it was like, I knew it would be an interesting moment for the audience, but it was about providing closure to all of you who were so generous with your time and emotions and lives and all these things. And I wanted to give that to all of you. I really wanted to, and we did, and we gave you that moment. And then I hear you need to take that out of the end of the show. I'm like, wait, what you have to take that out of the end of the show. It's going to and these are my words, this is not anybody else's words. It's going to potentially upcut the fictionalized version because we put it out there that there is no answer, and now if there is an answer, it's going to upcut it. And so when I heard that, I was floridite. So I sent the results. I sent all of this other evidence that I had gathered that repts. Yeah, all the receipts along the way there were articles written saying that George was not the father, and you know, nobody had had the proof that we had, but it had been speculated on for for years. And if anything, this is going to help the show, right, Like here, here was my sort of pitch. You know, we've we've agreed to tell this nonfiction this this this documentary story. We have it. There's this other story that is slightly you know, leaves things sort of out there in the ether. Why can't they both live together? And really the story is okay, we picked up where I Am the Night left off, right. Patty did tell me in in that conversation, you know, talk about this, tell tell this story. It just wasn't the right time for the show. And in fact, the first time I heard about DNA was from the showrunner.

So you were very confused.

So you were very confused.

Right, My sort of thought was, isn't this a great story? Like, isn't this a good story? We're providing the family closure. It can be both, it can be here's the real story, here's the fictionalized story. They're both great. If they love the limited series I Am the Night, that will drive them to the podcast to hear more or vice versa. If they love Root of Evil. They'll go to the TV show and watch the show, and can't this moment live, you know, for the sake of the family members and the audience and all of that. And to my utter disappointment, the answer was no. And so I do have to say this, and I have to reiterate this. The process of working with TNT and with everybody else was amazing. From start to finish. They were hands off. They let me tell the story, they were hearing rough cuts. They knew how good it was going to be, or I shouldn't say that. They knew that it had the potential to be, to be interesting, to be big, and they they let me be. But there was this one moment where I think Patty decided that, you know, we don't want to have that on. It's it's not going to serve the show. I am the Knight in a meaningful way. And and in her defense, I totally get that I would have done the exact same thing if it were my show, because you don't want anything to take away from your show. And of course they're thinking from the very beginning, was you know this podcast?

Right, My sort of thought was, isn't this a great story? Like, isn't this a good story? We're providing the family closure. It can be both, it can be here's the real story, here's the fictionalized story. They're both great. If they love the limited series I Am the Night, that will drive them to the podcast to hear more or vice versa. If they love Root of Evil. They'll go to the TV show and watch the show, and can't this moment live, you know, for the sake of the family members and the audience and all of that. And to my utter disappointment, the answer was no. And so I do have to say this, and I have to reiterate this. The process of working with TNT and with everybody else was amazing. From start to finish. They were hands off. They let me tell the story, they were hearing rough cuts. They knew how good it was going to be, or I shouldn't say that. They knew that it had the potential to be, to be interesting, to be big, and they they let me be. But there was this one moment where I think Patty decided that, you know, we don't want to have that on. It's it's not going to serve the show. I am the Knight in a meaningful way. And and in her defense, I totally get that I would have done the exact same thing if it were my show, because you don't want anything to take away from your show. And of course they're thinking from the very beginning, was you know this podcast?

Like they had no idea?

Like they had no idea?

Yeah, oh nobody did. And I didn't have any idea, but but they, you know, it was, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna drive an audience to the TV show. And if we're going to do that, why would we want the listeners of Root of Evil to have this information in their minds as they're watching the TV show. It will their interpretation of the story for the TV show in a negative way. And I totally get that. Yeah, I totally get that, especially from a director's perspective, that is the last problem you want. So I don't fault Patty or Sam or anybody in any way, shape or form. They did what was right for their show, which there would be no podcast if it weren't for that TV show. So I think that that is a really important point to make. And I'm not you know, just trying to be you know, magnanimous in any way like that. That is truly how I feel like if I were if the shoe were on the other foot, I would have probably done the exact same thing, because you don't want anything messing with your story, and it could have messed with the story. Now that being said, it fucked me up, I know, yes, I know, because not only did it pull the teeth out of this story that I had built up until that point, and what the hell am I going to do? And now it's going to fall flat. It's just going to be this, you know, moment with everybody together and emoting. We don't have any real information as far as George Hode, I mean, George Hodell is sort of, you know, this looming figure in the entire series. Yes, so not only can we bring the family together, but we can answer this question and really just tie up every loose end in this moment. And I had to convince myself that Shita life is loose. Ends don't always get tied up. They just sort of stay loose and you got to live with it. But it really really messed me up for a while as far as feeling so upset that that wasn't going to be there. But more so than anything, it was telling the family I can't put this.

Yeah, oh nobody did. And I didn't have any idea, but but they, you know, it was, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna drive an audience to the TV show. And if we're going to do that, why would we want the listeners of Root of Evil to have this information in their minds as they're watching the TV show. It will their interpretation of the story for the TV show in a negative way. And I totally get that. Yeah, I totally get that, especially from a director's perspective, that is the last problem you want. So I don't fault Patty or Sam or anybody in any way, shape or form. They did what was right for their show, which there would be no podcast if it weren't for that TV show. So I think that that is a really important point to make. And I'm not you know, just trying to be you know, magnanimous in any way like that. That is truly how I feel like if I were if the shoe were on the other foot, I would have probably done the exact same thing, because you don't want anything messing with your story, and it could have messed with the story. Now that being said, it fucked me up, I know, yes, I know, because not only did it pull the teeth out of this story that I had built up until that point, and what the hell am I going to do? And now it's going to fall flat. It's just going to be this, you know, moment with everybody together and emoting. We don't have any real information as far as George Hode, I mean, George Hodell is sort of, you know, this looming figure in the entire series. Yes, so not only can we bring the family together, but we can answer this question and really just tie up every loose end in this moment. And I had to convince myself that Shita life is loose. Ends don't always get tied up. They just sort of stay loose and you got to live with it. But it really really messed me up for a while as far as feeling so upset that that wasn't going to be there. But more so than anything, it was telling the family I can't put this.

In yeah, that your hands are tied, I.

In yeah, that your hands are tied, I.

Think, sort of explaining that this is not my decision. Like I fought for this. I had the DNA expert who I spoke to initially on the phone when we were talking with TNT and with the creators of I Am the Night. I had the DNA expert on to help make this case. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't to be And so I had to live with it. And it sucked. And I know it sucked even way more for you guys and for Steve and and love, peace and joy and fun of two and and uh, it sucked for everybody to not be able to have some closure to to that piece of the story, which I think they all felt. You know, it was going to be negative. George wasn't the father, but to be able to.

Think, sort of explaining that this is not my decision. Like I fought for this. I had the DNA expert who I spoke to initially on the phone when we were talking with TNT and with the creators of I Am the Night. I had the DNA expert on to help make this case. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't to be And so I had to live with it. And it sucked. And I know it sucked even way more for you guys and for Steve and and love, peace and joy and fun of two and and uh, it sucked for everybody to not be able to have some closure to to that piece of the story, which I think they all felt. You know, it was going to be negative. George wasn't the father, but to be able to.

Tell the public definitively tie that up, definitively to the public, no, he's not the father.

Tell the public definitively tie that up, definitively to the public, no, he's not the father.

To not be able to have that that stuck with me, I would say for more than a year. I couldn't get over that.

To not be able to have that that stuck with me, I would say for more than a year. I couldn't get over that.

You're just being real.

You're just being real.

Yeah, it was truly a betrayal, you know, to the family. That's what we felt. And when we got that call from Patty, you know, saying that it wasn't going to be in I mean, we were devastated, but we were put in the middle, you know what I mean, And we said what we had to say because we wanted that in rud of evil, like you said, it was so powerful, it was so profound and it was the perfect ending to the true story. But like I told you, I'll never forget sitting in the car when we were going to the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards. It was the beginning of twenty twenty in January. Yeah, and I remember saying to you that Rude of Evil was your baby. I Am the Knight was Patty's baby. And you know, we're trying to make the both of you happy because there's that loyalty right to Patty, who brought Mom's you know movie to Fruition, you know, her lifelong dream.

Yeah, it was truly a betrayal, you know, to the family. That's what we felt. And when we got that call from Patty, you know, saying that it wasn't going to be in I mean, we were devastated, but we were put in the middle, you know what I mean, And we said what we had to say because we wanted that in rud of evil, like you said, it was so powerful, it was so profound and it was the perfect ending to the true story. But like I told you, I'll never forget sitting in the car when we were going to the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards. It was the beginning of twenty twenty in January. Yeah, and I remember saying to you that Rude of Evil was your baby. I Am the Knight was Patty's baby. And you know, we're trying to make the both of you happy because there's that loyalty right to Patty, who brought Mom's you know movie to Fruition, you know, her lifelong dream.

Right. I wouldn't have been making this podcast without her. Yeah, absolutely right right.

Right. I wouldn't have been making this podcast without her. Yeah, absolutely right right.

I'll never forget having that conversation with Patty and with Sam. And of course after we fought for it and we realized we were losing the battle, Patty did tell us because she's you know, become Mohamma to us over the years, she told us, she said, you girls, this is your story. You can tell this story however you want to tell it, just not now. So that's why we're here today. That's why it's so apropos that we're telling the world with you, Zach, because we've even looking for a vehicle and trying to figure out how we were going to tell the world. One George Hodel is not our mother Fano Hodel's father, He's only her grandfather. And two we get to reveal to the world today who are Mom's biological father really was. And you were the one that was supposed to be here with Vett and I to tell the world.

I'll never forget having that conversation with Patty and with Sam. And of course after we fought for it and we realized we were losing the battle, Patty did tell us because she's you know, become Mohamma to us over the years, she told us, she said, you girls, this is your story. You can tell this story however you want to tell it, just not now. So that's why we're here today. That's why it's so apropos that we're telling the world with you, Zach, because we've even looking for a vehicle and trying to figure out how we were going to tell the world. One George Hodel is not our mother Fano Hodel's father, He's only her grandfather. And two we get to reveal to the world today who are Mom's biological father really was. And you were the one that was supposed to be here with Vett and I to tell the world.

That absolutely and full circle, things happen the way they're supposed to happen. I truly believe that. And like Russia just said, you know, we started with you and we're going to end with you by sharing this, you know, this discovery that we've been wanting to know for so long.

That absolutely and full circle, things happen the way they're supposed to happen. I truly believe that. And like Russia just said, you know, we started with you and we're going to end with you by sharing this, you know, this discovery that we've been wanting to know for so long.

So with all of that being said, take you back right, So all of us before Mom died from breast cancer in September of twenty seventeen, our uncle Joy gifted all of us I swear twenty three and me needs to sponsor this episod, but gifted us all twenty three and meters DNA kids. So we all did it, including our mom, And that is how we got all of that, right, That's how we got That's how we figured out that George was not her father. Of course we didn't find that out till after Mom died. But fast forward, so twenty eighteen is when we all found out that George was not Mom's father. Fast forward to twenty twenty two. Both Vet and I get an alert, Hey, you have a new DNA relative, which that happens all the time, because there's you know, five thousand.

So with all of that being said, take you back right, So all of us before Mom died from breast cancer in September of twenty seventeen, our uncle Joy gifted all of us I swear twenty three and me needs to sponsor this episod, but gifted us all twenty three and meters DNA kids. So we all did it, including our mom, And that is how we got all of that, right, That's how we got That's how we figured out that George was not her father. Of course we didn't find that out till after Mom died. But fast forward, so twenty eighteen is when we all found out that George was not Mom's father. Fast forward to twenty twenty two. Both Vet and I get an alert, Hey, you have a new DNA relative, which that happens all the time, because there's you know, five thousand.

Removed cousins whatever.

Removed cousins whatever.

We've been looking since twenty seventeen for anyone that he Vet and I are related to that are not related to the Hodels. We're talking because Peace and Joy did their DNA as well as Steve and F two. Love is the only one that didn't do it on that side. And so someone came up and it came up as like a close DNA relative. And this is August of twenty two two, right before we're going to leave for podcast movement. Our lives are changing, Facing Evil had just launched.

We've been looking since twenty seventeen for anyone that he Vet and I are related to that are not related to the Hodels. We're talking because Peace and Joy did their DNA as well as Steve and F two. Love is the only one that didn't do it on that side. And so someone came up and it came up as like a close DNA relative. And this is August of twenty two two, right before we're going to leave for podcast movement. Our lives are changing, Facing Evil had just launched.

Yeah, I'm sitting in the beauty salon getting my hair done and Rash just sends me this message and I was like, holy shit, it was screenshots.

Yeah, I'm sitting in the beauty salon getting my hair done and Rash just sends me this message and I was like, holy shit, it was screenshots.

And when I sent her the screenshot, I'm like, there's this guy named Mario Delo Sada who is a relative on Mom's side. All these things and I didn't realize when I sent her the screenshot because I logged in because I still have moms log in for her twenty three and meters. I logged in his mom after I sent her the screenshot. Took screen quick screenshots from moms because you can see more when it's your own profile. And it's like, I was Fana Hodel in that moment, and it said Fana Hodel's half sibling and not related to any of the Hodels, so all the Hodels are half siblings, so that gets even more complicated.

And when I sent her the screenshot, I'm like, there's this guy named Mario Delo Sada who is a relative on Mom's side. All these things and I didn't realize when I sent her the screenshot because I logged in because I still have moms log in for her twenty three and meters. I logged in his mom after I sent her the screenshot. Took screen quick screenshots from moms because you can see more when it's your own profile. And it's like, I was Fana Hodel in that moment, and it said Fana Hodel's half sibling and not related to any of the Hodels, so all the Hodels are half siblings, so that gets even more complicated.

But I was like, what right.

But I was like, what right.

It has no photo, just has a name and it says born nineteen fifty eight Mario del Sada, And I'm like.

It has no photo, just has a name and it says born nineteen fifty eight Mario del Sada, And I'm like.

Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god.

Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god.

We're literally just about to get on a plane to go to Dallas, Texas to go to podcast movement.

We're literally just about to get on a plane to go to Dallas, Texas to go to podcast movement.

And I did a deep dive.

And I did a deep dive.

I googled every Mario de Losada you could find, and within about twenty minutes I found him on Facebook. And you know, he's gonna think I'm crazy by messaging him and being like, hey, you know I think you're related to us anyway, Long rabbit hole down. Within about an hour and a half, of us finding that original thing. I sent messages to Mario on Instagram, Facebook, twenty three and meters and then we got a message back from his sister named Judy de Losada.

I googled every Mario de Losada you could find, and within about twenty minutes I found him on Facebook. And you know, he's gonna think I'm crazy by messaging him and being like, hey, you know I think you're related to us anyway, Long rabbit hole down. Within about an hour and a half, of us finding that original thing. I sent messages to Mario on Instagram, Facebook, twenty three and meters and then we got a message back from his sister named Judy de Losada.

But in that hour and a half, you can imagine, you know, the anxiety, the surrealness, the like like you're on your show exactly exactly.

But in that hour and a half, you can imagine, you know, the anxiety, the surrealness, the like like you're on your show exactly exactly.

And Duty messaged back and she said, I'm so sorry. Mario is on a flight, you know, to Atlanta, and they.

And Duty messaged back and she said, I'm so sorry. Mario is on a flight, you know, to Atlanta, and they.

All live in Canada. So I was like, yeah, there's no way.

All live in Canada. So I was like, yeah, there's no way.

I'm like, I don't Annie was too pretty, and she's like, yep, that's him.

I'm like, I don't Annie was too pretty, and she's like, yep, that's him.

He was born in nineteen fifty eight.

He was born in nineteen fifty eight.

And before she told me our grandfather's name, I had found it and I was.

And before she told me our grandfather's name, I had found it and I was.

Like, oh my god, I think it's Gus de Losada. I think it's Gus de Losada. And I broke down in tears. You've it.

Like, oh my god, I think it's Gus de Losada. I think it's Gus de Losada. And I broke down in tears. You've it.

Broke down in tears, and I told Judy, I said, I know you're going to google us as soon as you see all these messages. Please don't freak out, but you and Mario have just proven that mom one hundred million percent, that Mom was not the product of incest.

Broke down in tears, and I told Judy, I said, I know you're going to google us as soon as you see all these messages. Please don't freak out, but you and Mario have just proven that mom one hundred million percent, that Mom was not the product of incest.

By finding Mario and.

By finding Mario and.

In that moment, like for me, I was sitting in the you know, in the in the salon, it felt like the gates of heaven like just opened, and I could see my mom's face like just smiling with the biggest, brightest smile and such.

In that moment, like for me, I was sitting in the you know, in the in the salon, it felt like the gates of heaven like just opened, and I could see my mom's face like just smiling with the biggest, brightest smile and such.

A relief I can't even imagine.

A relief I can't even imagine.

I was like Mom, I was like, Mama, we did it. We know, we know that fucker wasn't your dad. You know what I mean, because you know, when you think about it, you know, Mom searched her whole life right for her mother. She never puts that emphasis on finding her father because she was afraid of what she might find right exactly. So to get this news and to see these pictures in that moment was extraordinary and a what a gift.

I was like Mom, I was like, Mama, we did it. We know, we know that fucker wasn't your dad. You know what I mean, because you know, when you think about it, you know, Mom searched her whole life right for her mother. She never puts that emphasis on finding her father because she was afraid of what she might find right exactly. So to get this news and to see these pictures in that moment was extraordinary and a what a gift.

And we have to tell the world so that they know. Fana Hodel's father's name was august oracee Manuel Delo Saba, and he was born in nineteen twenty seven and sadly died in nineteen eighty. He had three children after Mom, one child before her. Actually, while we were at Podcast Movement, we face timed with them. We spoke with all of them, and they're all beautiful, gorgeous amazing souls.

And we have to tell the world so that they know. Fana Hodel's father's name was august oracee Manuel Delo Saba, and he was born in nineteen twenty seven and sadly died in nineteen eighty. He had three children after Mom, one child before her. Actually, while we were at Podcast Movement, we face timed with them. We spoke with all of them, and they're all beautiful, gorgeous amazing souls.

That's so cool.

That's so cool.

I have to tell one story too, because you know when we were speaking to the whole family, when we finally got on a video chat with the whole family, and I said, so, Mario, this is one of the you know, one of the brothers, Our's off brother, our uncle. I said, so, why now, why did you decide to go on twenty three and me now? And he goes, well, it was on.

I have to tell one story too, because you know when we were speaking to the whole family, when we finally got on a video chat with the whole family, and I said, so, Mario, this is one of the you know, one of the brothers, Our's off brother, our uncle. I said, so, why now, why did you decide to go on twenty three and me now? And he goes, well, it was on.

Sale on Amazon primeday, right, it.

Sale on Amazon primeday, right, it.

Was ninety nine random.

Was ninety nine random.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was like, thank you, thank you, thank you.

And I was like, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

August went by Gus.

August went by Gus.

He had a beautiful relationship with his entire family accepted Mario, and Mario came out at a very young age. For all accounts and purposes, he was a beautiful human being, and he was Spanish and Ecuadorian and he lived in San Francisco.

He had a beautiful relationship with his entire family accepted Mario, and Mario came out at a very young age. For all accounts and purposes, he was a beautiful human being, and he was Spanish and Ecuadorian and he lived in San Francisco.

Like everything lined up. We found census, we found passports.

Like everything lined up. We found census, we found passports.

Photos, photos, yes, which now we can post and share.

Photos, photos, yes, which now we can post and share.

And now we can tell the hotels.

And now we can tell the hotels.

We haven't told them yet because we wanted to do it the right way.

We haven't told them yet because we wanted to do it the right way.

That is really exciting. So not only did we find out that George wasn't the father, but now we know who he actually is and that that is real.

That is really exciting. So not only did we find out that George wasn't the father, but now we know who he actually is and that that is real.

Closure, that is real close.

Closure, that is real close.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, So that first video call with the De Loosadas, our auntie Judy told us, she's like, so, you know, I watched the Doctor Phil show with you and Evet and your great uncle Steve, and he was trying to say that, you know, our dad raped your grandmother Tamar, and she was just like, there's no way. There's apps you know. She's like, she's like, there is no way. And I just want to put that out there that this was a one night encounter. None of us know what really happened. Everyone who is involved is not alive anymore. But I do want to say on behalf of the de Losadas that there's like, there's no way. Our father was a beautiful, loving, kind man. I just I just have to say that. That's what she told us, and we're like, yeah, sorry about sorry about that, sorry about doctor Phil, but we love doctor Phil obviously.

Yes, So that first video call with the De Loosadas, our auntie Judy told us, she's like, so, you know, I watched the Doctor Phil show with you and Evet and your great uncle Steve, and he was trying to say that, you know, our dad raped your grandmother Tamar, and she was just like, there's no way. There's apps you know. She's like, she's like, there is no way. And I just want to put that out there that this was a one night encounter. None of us know what really happened. Everyone who is involved is not alive anymore. But I do want to say on behalf of the de Losadas that there's like, there's no way. Our father was a beautiful, loving, kind man. I just I just have to say that. That's what she told us, and we're like, yeah, sorry about sorry about that, sorry about doctor Phil, but we love doctor Phil obviously.

Well yeah, I mean that was the information that everybody had at that time, you know, and now you have new information exactly. I was just going to say, how do you feel knowing who it is now?

Well yeah, I mean that was the information that everybody had at that time, you know, and now you have new information exactly. I was just going to say, how do you feel knowing who it is now?

It's a piece within you know for me, you know, being the eldest. And I just have to say, from the time I was very young and hearing this story, I never accepted that. Ask me why, I don't know, It's just my personality. I didn't accept it. But you know, when Mom passed and we asked her, you know, did she believe that George was her father? And she said yes, that starts to resonate in your head that the possibility is very true. And you know, then to go on root of Evil and find out all of these things you just didn't know, you know, but to have a definitive answer of who it puts me at peace. But more so than me, Zach, I feel the peace in my mom's spirit.

It's a piece within you know for me, you know, being the eldest. And I just have to say, from the time I was very young and hearing this story, I never accepted that. Ask me why, I don't know, It's just my personality. I didn't accept it. But you know, when Mom passed and we asked her, you know, did she believe that George was her father? And she said yes, that starts to resonate in your head that the possibility is very true. And you know, then to go on root of Evil and find out all of these things you just didn't know, you know, but to have a definitive answer of who it puts me at peace. But more so than me, Zach, I feel the peace in my mom's spirit.

That's the gift, you know.

That's the gift, you know.

I always thought that George was our mom's father because of all the questions that I had asked my grandmother tomorrow over the years, and Mom's evasiveness to talk about it and all of that, and obviously like to you know, a few days before Tamar died herself, she died in twenty fifteen, she said the same thing out.

I always thought that George was our mom's father because of all the questions that I had asked my grandmother tomorrow over the years, and Mom's evasiveness to talk about it and all of that, and obviously like to you know, a few days before Tamar died herself, she died in twenty fifteen, she said the same thing out.

Loud, that she thought that George was the father.

Loud, that she thought that George was the father.

Our mom said it a few days before she died in twenty seventeen that she thought that George was the father, and the sad part is that he could have been.

Our mom said it a few days before she died in twenty seventeen that she thought that George was the father, and the sad part is that he could have been.

And so for me when I found out.

And so for me when I found out.

Definitively that we knew who the father was, because we didn't know if it was John Houston Man Ray some random rumor at the Franklin Souden house.

Definitively that we knew who the father was, because we didn't know if it was John Houston Man Ray some random rumor at the Franklin Souden house.

We had no idea.

We had no idea.

But I love the fact that we now know that there was this beautiful human and this beautiful family, and like we know where Mom got her kindness from. Like the Delo Sadas just have this oozing warmth and sincerity and kindness and supportiveness, and I'm like, oh, like just the breath.

But I love the fact that we now know that there was this beautiful human and this beautiful family, and like we know where Mom got her kindness from. Like the Delo Sadas just have this oozing warmth and sincerity and kindness and supportiveness, and I'm like, oh, like just the breath.

Absolutely, absolutely, it really is.

Absolutely, absolutely, it really is.

We haven't met them, the Delosadas in person yet because they all live in Canada now, but we're in you know, we're in constant communication on social media.

We haven't met them, the Delosadas in person yet because they all live in Canada now, but we're in you know, we're in constant communication on social media.

We got their blessing. We're like, hey, we're going to tell the world.

We got their blessing. We're like, hey, we're going to tell the world.

They're like, yeah, like they only wish they could have met Mom. But we've told them just like we told you, you know, you know, Fana.

They're like, yeah, like they only wish they could have met Mom. But we've told them just like we told you, you know, you know, Fana.

Hodel, through the two of us, through us, through her girls, beautiful.

Hodel, through the two of us, through us, through her girls, beautiful.

I love that you were able to have that moment And now can you know see where the next chapter goes.

I love that you were able to have that moment And now can you know see where the next chapter goes.

We're just going to get right into this because you know you've talked about throughout this podcast how you hate your voice, which we don't understand why why that is, but we know you have a fabulous voice, and you just have to tell us about this new podcast that you are hosting called the Set about the Dirty thirty. I know that it's said in the late eighties nineties about the whole Wild Kingdom, the Crack Empire, the heroin the stage houses. I mean, get into is Zach tell us.

We're just going to get right into this because you know you've talked about throughout this podcast how you hate your voice, which we don't understand why why that is, but we know you have a fabulous voice, and you just have to tell us about this new podcast that you are hosting called the Set about the Dirty thirty. I know that it's said in the late eighties nineties about the whole Wild Kingdom, the Crack Empire, the heroin the stage houses. I mean, get into is Zach tell us.

Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it. I mean, the biggest scandal in NYPD history. And I was actually doing research for season four of another show that I have done called Gangster Capitalism. We just came off of season three, which was about Jerry Folwell Junior and Liberty University, which was a very rewarding process for me, advocating on behalf of sexual violence survivors on campus where the school covered it up, and I was able to connect them with an attorney who ended up suing the school on behalf of twenty two. Jane Does sued the school successfully and wowow, So it was a really rewarding process, and the show did really well, and I was looking for a topic for the fourth season, and I was literally googling corrupt industries, what will come up? And you know, I was doing all sorts of research and pharma and the auto industry and not saying that they're corrupt as a whole, but specific stories that I was sort of circling around. And I went down the rabbit hole and I realized that there was this precinct, the thirtieth Precinct in the NYPD, which is located in West Harlem in the northern northwestern end of Manhattan during the height of the crack epidemic. It was a level of corruption that I had never imagined or even heard about, cops actually robbing drug dealers and then selling the stolen drugs back to friendly drug dealers, so they were essentially drug dealers themselves. The next step that I always do in this situation is, HM, what's been done on this? Because for sure, there have been ten documentaries about this already made, and I'm so late to the game because it's thirty years later, and to my utter disbelief and happiness, nothing the story had never been told. And I said Holy shit, how has this story never been told in narrative form other than you know, sort of the news writers at the time who were on the police beat, just reporting the news of the day. And I thought to myself, Wow, this this could be really big. And what I often do in these situations is I bite off way more than I can chew. And I'm thinking this could be a story about New York City itself and policing, and you know, told through the prism of this one precinct and this commission that was formed, the MOLN Commission that was formed to look into police corruption. If I can get people to talk, it could be a highly entertaining show. But it also could be and this is where my mind always goes, it could also teach us sort of what can happen, I guess when policing goes wrong, you know.

Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it. I mean, the biggest scandal in NYPD history. And I was actually doing research for season four of another show that I have done called Gangster Capitalism. We just came off of season three, which was about Jerry Folwell Junior and Liberty University, which was a very rewarding process for me, advocating on behalf of sexual violence survivors on campus where the school covered it up, and I was able to connect them with an attorney who ended up suing the school on behalf of twenty two. Jane Does sued the school successfully and wowow, So it was a really rewarding process, and the show did really well, and I was looking for a topic for the fourth season, and I was literally googling corrupt industries, what will come up? And you know, I was doing all sorts of research and pharma and the auto industry and not saying that they're corrupt as a whole, but specific stories that I was sort of circling around. And I went down the rabbit hole and I realized that there was this precinct, the thirtieth Precinct in the NYPD, which is located in West Harlem in the northern northwestern end of Manhattan during the height of the crack epidemic. It was a level of corruption that I had never imagined or even heard about, cops actually robbing drug dealers and then selling the stolen drugs back to friendly drug dealers, so they were essentially drug dealers themselves. The next step that I always do in this situation is, HM, what's been done on this? Because for sure, there have been ten documentaries about this already made, and I'm so late to the game because it's thirty years later, and to my utter disbelief and happiness, nothing the story had never been told. And I said Holy shit, how has this story never been told in narrative form other than you know, sort of the news writers at the time who were on the police beat, just reporting the news of the day. And I thought to myself, Wow, this this could be really big. And what I often do in these situations is I bite off way more than I can chew. And I'm thinking this could be a story about New York City itself and policing, and you know, told through the prism of this one precinct and this commission that was formed, the MOLN Commission that was formed to look into police corruption. If I can get people to talk, it could be a highly entertaining show. But it also could be and this is where my mind always goes, it could also teach us sort of what can happen, I guess when policing goes wrong, you know.

The ultimate power interruption?

The ultimate power interruption?

Yeah, what can happen when a police department does not police itself? And so I thought that that question is one worthy of diving into and one that should never go away, right because what happened with the Dirty thirty in New York City and the crack era is exactly what happens when the police department fails to police itself, and so I began doing my research, and I connected with the attorney of who I thought could be the main character or sort of the person through whose eyes a lot of this would would be seen, and who was taken for an insane ride himself at Barry Brown. And I connected with Barry Brown. And Barry Brown was a fan of the basketball documentaries that I had done, so he knew who I was, and we hit it off, and he had never really told his story, and he was willing to tell it, and so we developed a relationship in much the same way that the two of you and I developed our relationship, and he trusted me with it. And in addition to Barry, I ended up connecting with most of the surviving members of the Malan Commission, who was impaneled to investigate police corruption at the time and happened upon this precinct that was filled with corruption and opened it up for the world to see. So I connected with all of them, including the investigators, and then I connected with federal and state prosecutors, and the state prosecutors were working for Robert Morgenthaugh at the time, who was the most powerful DA in the country known as the Boss, with this incredible reputation, and Mary Joe White was the US Attorney and there became this enormous turf war that happened behind the scenes. I ended up getting some of the cops who were convicted of corruption. So it's a really round story. And for the first time I think it's I don't think it's a stretch. It's not a stretch. It's the truth to say that this is the first time that this story is being told by the people who lived it. And it is cops dealing drugs, it's cops perjuring themselves. It is the police department reacting to it and cleaning things up. It is the turf war that went on behind the scenes between Robert Morgenthal, the Boss, the DA and the Molon Commission and the Southern District of New York and that story has never been told. And the pawn who is in the middle of all of it, who gets fucked over, And it is all told in this landscape of the crack epidemic and what West Harlem and other communities were put through because these police were not out policing, they were in it for themselves. There are all these crazy moments. Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's a story that I think could happen in any city when the police department does not police itself. Yet this is a uniquely New York story as well, and so I hope that it will really resonate with the audience. I think it will.

Yeah, what can happen when a police department does not police itself? And so I thought that that question is one worthy of diving into and one that should never go away, right because what happened with the Dirty thirty in New York City and the crack era is exactly what happens when the police department fails to police itself, and so I began doing my research, and I connected with the attorney of who I thought could be the main character or sort of the person through whose eyes a lot of this would would be seen, and who was taken for an insane ride himself at Barry Brown. And I connected with Barry Brown. And Barry Brown was a fan of the basketball documentaries that I had done, so he knew who I was, and we hit it off, and he had never really told his story, and he was willing to tell it, and so we developed a relationship in much the same way that the two of you and I developed our relationship, and he trusted me with it. And in addition to Barry, I ended up connecting with most of the surviving members of the Malan Commission, who was impaneled to investigate police corruption at the time and happened upon this precinct that was filled with corruption and opened it up for the world to see. So I connected with all of them, including the investigators, and then I connected with federal and state prosecutors, and the state prosecutors were working for Robert Morgenthaugh at the time, who was the most powerful DA in the country known as the Boss, with this incredible reputation, and Mary Joe White was the US Attorney and there became this enormous turf war that happened behind the scenes. I ended up getting some of the cops who were convicted of corruption. So it's a really round story. And for the first time I think it's I don't think it's a stretch. It's not a stretch. It's the truth to say that this is the first time that this story is being told by the people who lived it. And it is cops dealing drugs, it's cops perjuring themselves. It is the police department reacting to it and cleaning things up. It is the turf war that went on behind the scenes between Robert Morgenthal, the Boss, the DA and the Molon Commission and the Southern District of New York and that story has never been told. And the pawn who is in the middle of all of it, who gets fucked over, And it is all told in this landscape of the crack epidemic and what West Harlem and other communities were put through because these police were not out policing, they were in it for themselves. There are all these crazy moments. Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's a story that I think could happen in any city when the police department does not police itself. Yet this is a uniquely New York story as well, and so I hope that it will really resonate with the audience. I think it will.

It will.

It will.

Can you tell our listeners exactly when it's going to launch?

Can you tell our listeners exactly when it's going to launch?

Yeah, So the first three episodes are coming out on June fourteenth. Again, it's called the Set Set and you'll find out what that means as you listen, and it will be ten episodes released weekly. You can also binge it on the Odyssey app.

Yeah, So the first three episodes are coming out on June fourteenth. Again, it's called the Set Set and you'll find out what that means as you listen, and it will be ten episodes released weekly. You can also binge it on the Odyssey app.

Well, we are so excited and honored to listen to it, to promote it, to do all the things.

Well, we are so excited and honored to listen to it, to promote it, to do all the things.

All the things, Yes, Zach, from the bottom of our hearts, you know you. You will forever be our brother from another mother. We love you. You are our family, You are o'hanna, and we are forever grateful for you and to you. So thank you so much again for being with us today. It was it was the reunion of a lifetime.

All the things, Yes, Zach, from the bottom of our hearts, you know you. You will forever be our brother from another mother. We love you. You are our family, You are o'hanna, and we are forever grateful for you and to you. So thank you so much again for being with us today. It was it was the reunion of a lifetime.

Thank you, and and right back at you, Vet, I mean, I feel the same way about the both of you. I'm so happy to see you doing what you love to do. And thank you for having me on. Thank you for you know, for having this for them to talk about all these things, about this moment in our lives where we came together and and uh and and and did this thing and and uh and of course thank you for allowing me to talk about the set. I will be a fan of both of you forever.

Thank you, and and right back at you, Vet, I mean, I feel the same way about the both of you. I'm so happy to see you doing what you love to do. And thank you for having me on. Thank you for you know, for having this for them to talk about all these things, about this moment in our lives where we came together and and uh and and and did this thing and and uh and of course thank you for allowing me to talk about the set. I will be a fan of both of you forever.

Today's message of hope and healing goes out to our mama, Fauna Fanna Hodel. Her life's mission has become our mission to share stories of how we can all overcome and be the light.

Today's message of hope and healing goes out to our mama, Fauna Fanna Hodel. Her life's mission has become our mission to share stories of how we can all overcome and be the light.

Our emua also goes out to our guests today, mister Zach Lovett, who our mother would have loved with every ounce of her heart and soul just like we do, because he took her life's work and he turned it into a true masterpiece of storytelling. We are forever grateful for the gift that Zach and our mom have given us.

Our emua also goes out to our guests today, mister Zach Lovett, who our mother would have loved with every ounce of her heart and soul just like we do, because he took her life's work and he turned it into a true masterpiece of storytelling. We are forever grateful for the gift that Zach and our mom have given us.

It is all about the storytelling, and one thing that we know for sure is we can all learn from one another and move onward and upward. Emua ema emua.

It is all about the storytelling, and one thing that we know for sure is we can all learn from one another and move onward and upward. Emua ema emua.

Well, that's our show for today.

Well, that's our show for today.

We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.

We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.

Find us on social media or email us at facingebl pod at Tenderfoot dot tv.

Find us on social media or email us at facingebl pod at Tenderfoot dot tv.

And one small request if you haven't already, please find us on iTunes and give us a good rating and a good review. If you like what we do, your support is always cherished until next time.

And one small request if you haven't already, please find us on iTunes and give us a good rating and a good review. If you like what we do, your support is always cherished until next time.

Aloha.

Aloha.

Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero in a Vetchintile, Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf of iHeart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmage. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod at Tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero in a Vetchintile, Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf of iHeart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmage. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod at Tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.