When you want to find love. It's obviously very important to be intentional in your journey, but can you be too intentional? Is it even possible to find a balance between those two extremes. Well, here's hoping it is possible, because that may be our only hope for finding love. This is Exit Interview, high of Julie Kraft Chick and I'm Ushue, and we are active daters turned dating sociologists. You may know us from our longstanding show Datable, where we've talked to thousands of daters and world renowned experts about why we date the way we do yes, And throughout all of those conversations, we begin to realize all of our best ideas and discussions could only go so far, because the only surefire way to actually know what you're doing wrong in your dating life is to talk to the people who know you best, your old flames, and that's exactly what we're doing on Exit Interview. So if you've been listening so far, you know, over the last several weeks, we've talked to five different daters who all want to find loving connection but can't figure out what's getting in their way, so we've helped them out by calling up their exes, their one night stands, they're friends and benefits, their situationships, their friends, basically anyone that can give light into what's going on in their love lives talking to your old one night stands. Can you imagine that We've got plenty more exit interviews coming your way, But this week we're going to take a break from our normal format to look back at what we've done so far. You know, we got to reflect on the conversations we've had and see if there's any core ideas we want to really delve into and really go deep on what is getting in people's way. Yeah, and we also have a little surf for you all. We have gone back after months of recording our initial exit interviews with these daters and checked in with them to see what has changed since we had this discussion. So we'll just say there's some fun updates in store. Yes, So you a okay, I think like going into this exit interview, I had some ideas of you know, what we would learn. I think one of the things I thought too, like, when you're in the thick of dating, a lot of times you think like, oh, the person isn't calling me back because you know, they weren't attracted to me enough, or like something physical was missing. But very rarely did we actually hear that in the exit interview. Most of the times it was around behaviors. So I think a lot of times we get in our own head that we're not enough in some way, but that's usually not actually what's holding us back. Was there anything that surprised you when we did this? I think along the same lines what surprised me was there's such a disconnect between what you think went down and what actually went down. Yes, And there's just so many perspectives to the story. So when you look back on the people who may have broken your heart or were mean to you or say something hurtful to you, it's like, did that really happen? I mean, I'm not saying like, you know, this wasn't your truth, you weren't hurt by it, right, but it's like, what actually did happen? Because there is probably a disconnect of some sort. Oh. I mean some of the stories we heard, I feel like there was their side, the other person's side, and probably a side of the middle that we're business because there's always there truths to every story. Yes, and so that was actually a big learning for me, and I was surprised by how open everyone was to the feedback. Definitely. I thought for sure we have one or two who would be really resistant and be like, no, this is who I am, I'm not going to do it any differently. But everyone was open to the feedback. I'm so grateful for that. I mean, we still have five more episodes after this, so that still could happen, touche, But you're right in the initial ones, people were definitely very receptive. And also I feel like the people that gave the feedback were pretty honest, but not like honest in a mean way, just honest in I'm going to say the truth and hopefully that will help out. Yeah. Any favorite moments that popped up for you. I mean, my favorite hands Dad was in and she's the last episode we did. Yeah, a prime example of what you were saying now of someone that had a very different take on the situation, like the moment where his past flame, Mindy that he felt like was the one that got away, said that he upgraded himself to business class. It left her behind it coach I did. That was the moment that still sticks out for me. I mean we are still talking about that, like the whole production team, but something we still bring up over and over again kind of movie. Yeah. I think another moment that stood out for me was talking to Pylin and she's like, I'm a recovering type A. I just need to take a chill pill. And by the end she's like, I'm just not chill, zero chill. I'm just gonna have to live with that. I'm not a recovering type A absolutely. I mean, I think that brings me to it. I think one of the moments I think about with Pilin is just this need for intentionality, and that definitely was a theme that came out throughout all of these episodes. And you know, it's a theme that we go into quite extensively undateable also of not just kind of like putting whatever out there and hoping for the best, but knowing what your north star is, knowing what you want. How are you intentional? And like, how are you more guided to getting there? And I think what we saw over these last five exit interviews is that it really ran the gamut of how intentional these daters were. And I think at the end of the day, it all came back to intentionality, whether you were on the side of not being intentional at all or maybe even too intentional. I didn't know that was a thing, but I learned that on this experiment. Yeah, there are two opposite extremes, the very intentional to the unintentional, and we are going to try to understand where the balance is. Because if you're too intentional, you're not letting life happen. You're kind of like not being spontaneous or living in the moment. But if you're too unintentional, you adapt yourself to whoever you date. You're like, I'm going with the flow, but with no end in sight, and that's when you feel like you're in this endless cycle right of dating. So let's get to one side of the spectrum. The Queen of situation Ships, Chris Yeah, who is definitely on the unintentional side of the spectrum. She was intentional about not looking for a relationship, but very unintentional about what situationships would even look like for her. I mean, I feel like situationships by definition is unattentional, right, Like that's what you're looking for. You're basically not being deliberate or purposeful in anyway, and you're just letting things kind of be ambiguous and undefined on purpose. So yeah, you're right like intentional about being unintentional. I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know that was a thing either, But you know, we had a really good chat with her, and we caught up with what Chris is up to. So let's catch up with the queen herself, the Queen of situationships, Chris. Hello, hey, Chris, welcome back the Queen of situation ships. We're excited to find out what's been happening in your queendom. Last time we spoke, we left it at the conclusion that situation ships aren't really serving you. So what's been going on with your love life? So since then, I ended up giving in and I'm actually in a relationship now, yes, with someone who was a situation ship. Actually, at the time we were talking, okay, kind she wasn't ever really pushy. She showed that she could respect me and respect the fact that I still needed to work through some things, and she showed she actually cared for me. Oh my god, this is amazing. Wow. Can you take us to the moment where she asked you to be her girlfriend. I want to hear this how this conversation went down. We were basically laying in her bed and we were talking things through because I'm moving and she didn't want it to end when I moved and asked if I would consider like being with her kind of freaked out how to freak out, and she's like, you know, you don't have to answer, now, take some time, like teople, I'm to think it over. I don't want you to make a rush decision your way, And so about a week later we had the whole conversation. I basically had written out like pros and cons and talk to her through the whole list of pros and cons. Like at the end of the conversation, she's like, you know, basically everything we talked about tonight I had already thought through. And you know, I still want to be with you, and I hope, like talking through all these things, you feel more comfortable in wanting to be with me. And I was like, yeah, I guess I do. You know that's so huge because I remember explicitly from our conversation as talking about not being scared to talk about you know, when you're scared, what kind of made you go through the process of being open to making this your girlfriend. Talking to you guys definitely brought some more awareness in perspective on things and then taking that and ending up like talking to someone who could you know, over time make me feel comfortable enough to use your advice. And recognizing that I did push people away that did that, and recognizing that she did not do that, I think was a big reason for me to be like, Okay, I'll try. I appreciate you giving us this honest look at what went down during that conversation, because I want our listeners to understand this doesn't happen overnight. It's not magic. No, it's not like one day you're going to wake up and say I want to be in a relationship. If she had talked about it even a month before, or even like two weeks before she did, I would have dipped. I would have been like, you know, I like I would have said to myself, like, I know I've got feelings, but I don't know about this. I mean, we were talking for five months before I felt comfortable enough and like I had worked through things enough to be able to do that with her. So no, definitely doesn't right. Well, we're really excited for you, Chris. We're looking forward to hearing what comes of the relationship. But whatever happens, the growth that you've had, it's really remarkable and we're really glad that we're here for it. We're team Chris, and you're no longer. I'm sorry you've been dethroned as the queen of situation. Someone also take the spot crown off to someone else. There you go, perfect, yea perfect compromise. What holy shit, she's in a relationship. I feel like of all the people I would have guessed, she would not have been it. So I'm really glad that things have changed for her. And how you know, I feel like one of the things we uncovered with Chris is that fear was really getting in her way, and it sounds like it hasn't gone away completely, which is normal, but she's been able to not let it totally disrupt what she's actually deep down looking for. I love how honest she is with that this did not happen overnight. She's not magically now ready for relationships, but she's open to it and she's willing to try. So I really hope we will help Chris moving forward in this relationship is that she's not stuck on the outcome of it, but she's intentional about making this relationship work. Yeah, And intentional about saying her deeds and making them clear and not just being afraid to do things. I think that's a big part of it too, Yes, which brings us to our next batch of daters. We had Tea an Angel. I think they actually are kind of in a unique area as well, because these two are super intentional in their careers, like they're really putting their careers first. They're looking at, you know, what ways can they get ahead, what ways can they grow their businesses? Yet they are not bringing that intentionality to relationships in the slightest. How interesting is that some of us guilty is that I can be so intentional about parts of my life, but I don't look at life holistically and I can't bring that elsewhere, you know. So I think this will be a really relatable check in to see what Angel and Tia are up to. Let's start with Angel. Here we are. I'd love to know what what did you take away from our conversation last time? The biggest takeaway would probably be for me to just be myself. I was probably saying awesome, I'm just trying to focus on myself right now. I just feel like I don't want to date someone at the moment until I'm a little bit more closer to where I wanted. So I guess you could SAYD being a little selfish in my time right now because I have dated, Well, I did forget to mention I had to date a few girls like I have gone on like some dates and things like that since last time we did talk. Okay, but you know I kind of just would be like, uh, that's the main reason. It sounds like there's a shift in how you view dating and where you spend your time and energy. And when we spoke last time, you tend to fall into relationships with women you know who like you. It was a self protection mechanism. But we also ended that conversation with you not being sure if you can keep someone who you do like, Like, if you were to go for someone, how do you keep them? I remember you asking that question. Do you feel like you're working towards more of that confidence so you can't go after a woman who is more your caliber? That's why Also, you know I'm not dating too like you said, Yeah, I kind of want to build myself up a little bit. I mean, it just makes sense. I mean because you have to look at the point of view from the women, right, like, if she has a lot going on, or she's really beautiful or something, I think she'd be more likely to go for me if I had a little bit more going on, maybe if I was in a better financial place, you know. And it's not just about beauty, but maybe, you know, maybe she's just a little older than me, or maybe she has a really good job, or she has her own income, you know. So I just feel like, you know, we should be on that kind of the same level of the women we spoke to before. Who are you still in contact with? Well, I did forget about that too, that I did. Uh, I did talk to one of the girls again after the whole thing, kind of thanks to you guys. Who which one? Whole tight? This interview will continue in just a moment. Who which one? That one would be? Uh? YadA? And Jara was the one that you worked with that you met at the gym, right, yes, but you went on one date with there was an awkwardness at the end of the kiss that never happened. Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that girl. You saw her again. I guess after talking to you guys, I kind of regretted a little bit. I was like, hmmm, because she texts a lot of the bosses or whatever, so I was like, you know, maybe I shouldn't like give her another chance. And actually the first thing I did was visit her at her job. That's what I did, and it was you know, she was really happy, and I was glad that I was able to do that at least and see her. So that I tried, you know, I was like, Okay, well maybe we can see each other again and stuff. So but then you know, when we were hanging out in person and stuff, I just kind of as like, okay, yeah, this is why, Like I guess for me, it's just the attraction. It's in there. I guess. Okay, well, at least you gave it another shot. I gave it a shot. There's also a lot of drama in the past that we uncovered in your exit interviews. Do you feel like you've been in that mode as much or do you feel like the people that you have gone on a few dates there hasn't been that drama. Yeah, definitely not. Definitely not okay. Sometimes they wouldn't kind of know each other or know of each other, or my my ex is kind of in the picture a lot of times that that caused them, you know, drama. Okay, and as you're ex still in the picture, I don't really see myself ever dating her again, but we still talk to each other and things like that. You know, once in a while, Are her clothes out of your closet? Yeah, her clothes are long gone? Yeah? Good? Okay oooh yeah, yeah, I had to get rid of it. I see the progression from last time that at least the drama isn't there. You always say you don't have enough time for dating like that stuff actually exerts a lot of time and energy. So I'm glad to hear that's not really in your life right this minute. I agree. I am still a little bit concerned in the way you're speaking about women. If they're beautiful, then they're looking for this specific type of man. I think ultimately, what you're doing right now is for yourself. It's not to attract a beautiful woman. If we're doing everything for someone else, then what's the purpose of life. You're living for other people, but you're doing all these improvements and working on yourself for yourself, and when you feel so good about yourself, that's when you attract other people who feel good about themselves, who are drama free, who are at your caliber. So I hope we can shift away from the superficiality of attracting beautiful women to attracting people who are in the right mindset and are on the same journey as you. Well, I think you said it better than me. Actually, last time we discuss like, have you been reformed from maybe fuck boy tendencies? Ay, And I've seen time and time again. Maybe it starts off slow, but I guarantee if you like the person, you'll make the time for that person. Yeah, that's true. Well, thank you so much for checking back in with us. This was really fun to catch up again. I always have a great time talking with you all, and I appreciate all of your advice. Oh Angel, Oh Angel. I think you know. Angel is clearly still in the mindset of career first, and I think it's good because he's at least being conscious of not having the time for people his datings. You could say that's like some sort of no intentionality, But I'm still worried that he's like waiting for that perfect moment, and he's like, so he's still holding on to this sphere a bit too and not seeing how like a partner can actually be good for your overall being, which also correlates to career. He's in that perfectionist mentality. He wants things to be perfect. He wants himself to be perfect before he dives into a relationship. But I will give him credit for trying to go back to Yara again to revisit that relationship because it shows that he was open to exploring right, So there's progress there. I'm so proud of him. But Tia, we want to hear from Tia because our resident cool girl is also here to give us an update. Yeah, and last time we talked to her, she was kind of seeing if something could be with Dietrich. They were in that right phase again, and also Sierra was a bit up in the air as well. So let's hear it from Tia. Hey, Tia, so happy to have you back. Oh yeah, you got two action items and they were to call Sierra and d Trick. What happened after we got off the call? Yeah, I actually did. I called both of them. I never talked to d Trick, but that's a okay. So I called Sierra. We talked for like an hour and it was great, and there was some discomfort there maybe where you weren't like aligned in our sexuality kind of like that I'm more open, and it did make sense, like I didn't open up and I could have talked to her about it and how maybe I felt a little bit of shame. But she was like, yeah, I definitely kind of thought that's why you weren't talking to me. But how much better is it now that at least it's out in the open and you know why both of you you're not guessing. She also just said, yeah, like we could be friends, and yeah, I was cool. I enjoyed it great, But I want to hear about D Trich. Yeah, don't. He just didn't answer what happened? Yeah, yeah, I think I just called and then I let it go. I might have texted him, but I don't even think so, and then I just let it go. Okay. What I realized is I need a lot more communication and affection, and that's a need. Yeah, it just wasn't good timing, and I don't think we're a good fit, so you know, so just let that go. I think it's really good that you know, though, that this is a core need for you, right because in the last time we spoke, that was a big theme, right about stopping the cool girl mentality and speaking up for our needs. So how do you think that's carried over to dating now? I feel like I was the cool girl. I'd always play it cool when I got too much feeling. Sometimes I would fuck it up, or I'd do something different, or I'd try to like detach somehow, like go on a different date. On some part, it did kind of serve me not gonna lie, but I understand why it's not good. But what I did was I went to the complete opposite side where I communicated my feelings. I saw my boundaries. But it was so at the beginning that the guy at the end said that he felt that expectation from me, and he felt like it was maybe moving too fast and he wasn't ready for that. And a part of me wishes that I played it a little bit more cool so he could have kept like pursuing me and we could have gone even just a little bit slower. Because it was one of the first times I got my five must haves and like I could visualize like a possible relationship in the future, but now I don't know. I played it like I was too into him. Well, okay, I will stopping right there and say that is major progress, and that is how you filter out the people who are not right for you. Although he met your five needs on paper, the right person would say, I think we're moving a little too fast. Can we take this back little bit? It would be a conversation, It wouldn't turn someone off. So I actually think you did the right thing by putting all your needs up top, setting expectations and boundaries, and giving the other person an opportunity to meet that. If he said I'm not going to take this opportunity, he's not the right person. Okay, but I really enjoyed his company. I'm just bummed. It's understandable. Yeah, I see what you're saying about, like, did I move too far on the other end of the pendulum. And we have seen people like this that you go from not stating their needs to being very black and white on their needs. I actually think this is just speeding up the process. So maybe you did what you needed to do. And this just like inevitably wouldn't have worked out. That's huge progress. I appreciate it. What else did you take away from our conversation? Is there anything else that you've done differently since the last time we spoke. Yeah, I would say being open and honest with my feelings and so like to him, I told him I liked him good, Like I clarified, like, no, I'm not just bringing you to this party just because like I like you, and maybe it did scare them, but I was being open and like it's okay to say that you like them. That is so much progress from Sierra that didn't even know if you were on a date. Right. Yeah, Yeah, we're so proud of you. This is major progress in the right direction. And the cool girl will always want to sneak back in and say, maybe the cool girl shook a step in and make this better. Just tell her to go away. She doesn't need to be part of this. Yes, I was reflecting, and I was like, I've gotten more rejection recently than like that I'm used to, and I'm like, I'm not used to getting rejected. It's a good thing. Yeah, I guess it's it's a good thing. I think you're on the right track. Yeah, I know it sounds very counterintuitive, but it means you're doing something. You're actually putting yourself out there. Yeay, that's what I need to do here. Huh. Yeah, she sounds different herb. Yeah, And I think it's funny that she thinks she swung too far the other direction by being too intentional. I don't personally agree with that. I think she is just stating her needs and she's filtering out the people who are not right for her. Yeah. I mean I think for me, when I got really intentional about like, Okay, I want to be with someone that's a life partner that you know, just wants to be with me, that treats me with respect, that shows up consistently, I got rejected a lot because a lot of people couldn't meet me before I met my current partner. But I don't view that as rejection. It's just redirection and kind of filtering out these people that just we're never going to work in the first place. So I actually feel like by being more intentional, she saved herself months and months, and now she's open to meet someone that could match that place that she is absolutely if you're not getting rejected, you're not putting yourself out there. I agree, that's how it works. Right. So we're in the middle of the spectrum, and now we're gonna go lean towards the other side of the spectrum, which is full intentionality. Will first start with Auntie, who feels very intentional about being in a relationship. He really wants to be in one. Hi, Junie, is so nice to see you, and it's so nice to have you back. From our last conversation, one of the action items was maybe to close the door with Mindy to have a conversation with her. Has that happened since our convo? Yeah? It actually has it happened like after our recording the next day. Wow? So what did that conversation look like? I was a love and nervous. I think it was a little messy to start. I think it was really hard reliving it and like rehashing it. You know, should at a kuta all that stuff, right, It came to more of a mutual understanding like where we were in our relationship friendship, and I told her that I value her friendship and I don't know, I felt like I didn't satisfy that closure just thinking through it a little bit and maybe maybe just talking it through, which just was the closure, and just I think that helped. I think maybe that helped me move forward and progress in my life. That's good to hear because sometimes we expect closure to be this grand gesture or this feeling of like I'm over it, and a lot of times for us, is more therapeutic than that. It's just talking it out and making sure that you expressed yourself so that you don't look back and say I wish I would have said this, so you were able to express yourself. And since that conversation, any updates on the dating front. Yeah, So, you know, I've been traveling a lot and actually you know, started to date people in my travels and meet people. So I was down in South America this past November. I met some people when I was down in Argentina and Brazil, and I met somebody in Brazil which we kind of connected and where I actually something you know, and my old self I would have never done, is changed my itinerary so I can see this person again again. Oh wow, WHOA. Yeah, No, you know, I thought about it. I was like, you know, let's try something different let's break the norm. And so yeah, actually the second to last night or last night of might travel. And so I was supposed to actually go to Uruguay, to another country, um, but instead I actually flew from Argentina back to Brazil um so that I could meet up with her again and go out on a date. And what happened next, go grab us at the water, We'll be right back. And what happened next from our drinking it back to Brazil Um so that I could meet up with her again and go out on a date. So romantic. So have you two stayed in touch since? Yeah? So yeah we have. And so after came back m we messaged with each other and then I kind of made another whim where decided to go back down to Brazil for New Year's whoa, yeah, who is Auntie? So spontaneous? I don't know who you are? Yeah, you know, this is um trying something different. Have you ever been this spontaneous ever in your life? For for a girl? Oh? Definitely not. This is this is this is a first first. How does this make you feel to be this spontaneous with someone? It's interesting, It's different. I mean, I don't know the worst to describe. But I think it's just you're venturing to a new world that you've never done and it's exciting, it's new. Just going with the flow whatever happens from this too, like just remembering this energy. Yes, we often see that people have different levels of spontaneity when they're on vacation. But how can you maybe even bring this in to your dating life in Seattle? Also, Yes, that's something that could be good for you to think about a little more, right, Yeah, definitely you came alive when you told that story. You're you like shine through the screen. And for someone who lived your life on Excel spreadsheets, this is a huge step that you're starting to let go of that project management mentality towards dating. Yeah, the fact that you were so open to meeting someone else, I'm not sure if that would have happened if you didn't kind of have this of two moments with many Yeah, I think I agree, Julie. I think that was definitely I mean that was yeah, definitely a cloud, like a cloud that continued to hang. And I truly do believe that the conversation helped. Yes, it's just like planting the seed, and that what I'm seeing from you is instead of saying I can't do that, you're starting to ask yourself, could I do that? Could I do this thing that I was so uncomfortable doing it before? And I hope that this stays with you, that everything that you encounter in the new year is like, instead of thinking I can't do that, that's not my plans, I think could I do that? Maybe I could. I mean that's definitely been the biggest takeaway from our conversation, you know, two months ago. I think that definitely has helped in terms of my progression. I think the obviously there's no perfection. Obviously there's still you know, more things I could do better. But definitely I would say, yeah, it's helped me tremendously appreciate you. Guys. Was not expecting this resilient romance to come out of aunt She's update, what did you think of all this? Wow? Going to Brazil. I like that. I feel like anchie came alive in telling us that story. I fell to the passion inside of him and I was like, yes, and I'm like, I'm seeing this other side of Auntie. That's great. And he kind of threw his itinerary and agenda out the window good for him. Yeah, So I think this is maybe the dark side of intentionality. I mean, I'm all for being intentional while you're dating, Like, I don't believe you should just be like Willy Dilley going out there with no agenda whatsoever. That being said, you can't have too much of an agenda and not stay open to what might come your way. And I think aunt she when we first talked to him, he was very rigid in the sense of like he knew what to do to get into a relationship chip but it fell short because once you're actually in one, there aren't those defined rules or like things that you should be doing. So he was almost kind of like a lost puppy at that point. So I feel like by actually being a little less rigid upfront, still being intentional in the sense that he knows ultimately he wants a partner or he even with this Brazilian woman, just wants to connect with someone. It's not that he has no intentionality, but just being a little more open to where things can go could actually be really good for someone like Auntie. That kind of goes on the other side of the spectrum. I think it's so good for him, And it also shows you that we have to be careful about what we're intentional about. Yeah, if our intention is to be in a relationship, I would argue that's actually the wrong intention because that's an outcome you're just plugging, chugging. Anybody can fit into that intention. But if your intention is about creating life with somebody, then you create space for that person to be on your bread sheet so that you can move things around together, you know, instead of him like having the time stamps and be like, we've got to be out the door by six. Then you can allow for other people to create this life with you. How exciting is that? Exactly? So we'll move on to Pylon, who maybe you won't have her be the Queen of attentionality. Maybe well, okay, in this court, move over queen of situation shifts because we don't have that anymore. We're gonna go to the Queen of attentionality. But I think with Pilin, we found in her original interview also that she was really just trying to like fit someone into a mold, and that also isn't real intentionality. I want to call her the queen because I know she could get there. She just needs to dial it down a little because she has a vision of where she wants life to go, but she needs to stop putting people into that vision that really shouldn't be in that vision at the first place. Right can't wait to hear from her pylon the woman who says her longest relationship has been with dating apps. It's still going strong. That's the one still going strong. Sadly, that's fine, that's fine, It's okay, it's okay. So okay. From last time we talked, you were about I don't know, three months in with someone, which you had said on the podcast was always this pivotal point for you make or break time. What's going on current day? Okay. The weirdest thing was, so we had the recording was a Friday, and then I had this moment of like, oh my god, can I even see him tomorrow because I was in this emotional like drama. But I like seeing him. And we had like a sixteen hour amazing, almost like a mini road trip date. We learn more about each other. He asked like deep questions. We had so much fun. So he's like, oh I do have something to share. I'm like, okay, no, problem share and he said, I'm not sure I'm emotionally available right now for relationship, and immediately I was like, oh my god, we has had this thing. We just talked yesterday in this podcast highlight him and now is this happening And I'm freaking up. I'm like, you know what, he's just saying it, but I'm okay, thanks for sharing, so you know what's the what do you want out of this sharing? And he's like, I just wanted to share. Nothing to do right now. I'm like, okay, great, I'm glad you can share that. And this is where I was interesting, because after our chat, I was like I didn't feel like deep down, wasn't like there's a problem. I'm like, okay, you're saying these words, but I feel fine with you still. As all we were facing the same direction. But then on another day he was like, thought some more and I don't even know where I'm going right now. I really need to step back. I am taking care of my kids. My emotional availability is only for my kids, and I know that for you to have the best flaship, I need to be there emotionally also. Otherwise he's like, I really like you I'm still not available, and I was like, here we go again. Okay, Like I know, it's like, here we go again. But at the end of the day, you can't control other people and where they are in their life. So I almost don't feel like it's here we go again. It's that you gave someone a chance, you put yourself out there with them. You learned that they weren't able to meet you with where you are, and that's part of dating. Like, obviously the ideal is that it goes somewhere, but the reality with dating is that it doesn't always happen. And that's not a reflection on you. He's just wasn't in the place, and that really has nothing to do with you. I think that's a major learning. Yeah, by him saying that he wasn't emotionally available that first time, I think the normal pylon would have freaked out. Yeah, I feel like the old pylon would have doubled down on texting, bore or you know, trying to push things along. And it feels like you were like, Okay, I'm open to seeing if this keeps going, and you stayed in that mentality, which is good, But it wasn't like trying to push it in one way, and I actually think it's good that you encouraged him to like share how he's doing. Is I think one of the things we heard last time is that people like they didn't feel seen and heard as much. They felt like they were trying to like kind of fit into this funnel where you did open the space for him to share how he's doing. And while it wasn't necessarily the news you'd want to hear, not knowing that and just continuing to chug along for another couple of months, like that's not going to really be ultimately what you want either, Like you want to find someone that's ready for pilot, that's ready to do this, Like this just isn't that person. Yeah, And then the other major realization, this is going to go down a spiritual path a little bit. There's pain a breakup, but then there's you add your own suffering. So before in the past, I would be like, you're going to die alone, you suck what's wrong with you? That's the suffering. And then I've learned to like just have the pain of the breakup and don't add that to myself, and that already help a lot. Yeah, then this one the new learning was there's also expectation that this should last forever. Yeah, if you don't expect that, you will be free from that expectation. Yeah, but I think you can simplify this and say what was so great about that relationship. I think you had a major win with that wonderful date that you went on. Say that, I'm so happy that this relationship ended on a high note, because how many of these many relationships and on a terrible note that you've talked about before. That's a huge win. Start focusing on like the winds that you have in this last relationship. Yeah, in my opinion, it sounds like you are recovering from Type A a bit right. It's ongoing journey. It's an ongoing journey. Keep your head up. You know this really doesn't sound like it was a thing in your control at all. Like I think, just relinquished control, lead with your feelings, all the things you're doing. Eventually, something's going to stick. Yeah, we know that your longest relationship will not be a dating app, So we're just for that day. We know it. We know it. Thanks Pylon, Thanks for this opportunity to you guys. Ah, she sounds pretty heartbroken. Yeah, you know, I think even if you know what you want from dating, it's inevitable, right, because we can't control other people. All we can control is our outlook and how we operate. And it's the dangers of being on a boyfriend track or a partner track is that when you don't get that and you feel like you're veering off track, that's when you feel that disappointment come through. But I still think she's on the right track. She's going in the right direction, and I love that she was open to this relationship possibly not working out. And it's sure it didn't work out, but she learned so much from it, and that's all we can really ask for in relationships. Yeah, like TIA's situation, when things don't work out, it's just opening a new door for you. And I do believe Pylon has grown a lot since the exit interview, even though things didn't necessarily work out to have the success criteria she hoped for. I do see that growth in the sense that she recognized, like by the end of our discussion here, that she can only do so much. You know, this person was going to do what they wanted and how they felt, and all she can do is be intentional about the sense like I'm going to keep chugging along on my journey and like looking for the person that I want and how do I want to feel and how do I want to be treated, and let's see who can meet me. I think Pylon is so relatable for so many of us because yes, yes, as independent, strong women in the society, we're told to just bounce back, get back on the horse. You're fine. But I like that she's recognizing this bounce back. You take two steps forward, then you take a step back. That's how progress works. So I'm glad that she's recognizing the step back and knowing that it will propel her to go forward again. Yeah, and I think with Pylon and Tia and some of the others too, it's sometimes you do have to overcorrect to get back to that equilibrium, and you know, we're all trying to find balance in all parts of our lives. I think intentionality is the same thing. You know, we don't want to over index or under index. We've seen the extremes from this, but how do you stay committed to yourself and true to yourself, but also let people do what they're gonna do and not take it as kind of a personal slight but rather just like, this isn't your person. And now that we've talked to people from all sides of the spectrum unintentionality, what do you think it's the best balance? It's like a million dollar question, Right where should you be on the spectrum? We'll be right back after the short break. It's like a million dollar question, right where should you be on the spectrum? I mean I really think it's somewhere between where and She and Pylon are and then also where Angel and Tia are, like in the middle of the two of them, like not you know, being so rigid, but also not being so like whatever. I think there is a sweet spot, and I don't think there's like one for every person, but I really do think it's like having that north star and like what is it that you want out of life? And if we can tap into the deep motivation of why we are dating, it helps us course correct. And what I'm learning from the five daters we spoke to is that the spectrum of intentionality is constantly course correcting. Yeah, as long as you stay true to your dating. Why I had to tap back into this, you know when I was like, in the midst of all the dating in New York, I think at some point I had to sit down and be like, why am I doing this again? Is it just for companionship? Or am I in this because I truly want to build a life with someone. It dictated every action I took in dating, so it gave me guardrails to do. So. Yeah, this last round before I met my partner, I do think I found more of a medium that I was ready to let go of the wrong people. But I also went into dating just being like I'm here to meet another human instead of like I needed to go a certain way. Don't you feel like if we got all of the five daters into a room, they could help each other. Oh for sure? For sure, like Chris could learn something from Pylon where she can be more intentional about the type of relationship she wants to build, but Pilon can learn from Chris and how she can have more fun on dates and go with the flow. Yeah, I feel like Tia and ant She should go on a date together. I would actually love to see those a date together because Aunt she is so he likes to plan. Okay, we know that TIA's not a planner, as we heard from Sierra, runs away from planning. Yeah, absolutely, if they're open to meeting in the middle. I like to see what that date would look like. Interesting. I think also Angel and a She can learn from each other, like and she. I agree with you that like intentionally doesn't mean just being in a relationship. It's more like what do you want out of the relationship. But the fact that he even knows that, like he does want this and he's going to continue to date for it, opposed to kind of putting it aside and burying it. I think Angel could learn from Ante that way. And maybe and She could actually learn from Angel that sometimes it's okay to put dating on the back murder and focus on yourself in other parts of life. I don't think there's a right or wrong there, but again, it's all about balance. Sounds like we're doing a little matchmaking here. We think Pylon and Chris should be friends, Anchie and Angel should be friends, and Achie and Tia should go on a date. Okay, I like where this is. So of the five daters, who do you think took the feedback the most? You know, I mean I think all of them did. I don't want to say that no one did, but I kind of see it actually in Tea, Like I think, even though it didn't go the way that she wanted, I do think like she really put herself out in a different way this time around, and maybe she feels like she overcorrected a bit. This is just part of her journey with it, Like she's gonna have moments that she needs to adjust her technique a little or realize that this isn't the silver bullet in terms of you know, if you're intentional, then all of a sudden you have the result you want. But it's more of a journey. But I do see her getting there, and I could see that even from her check in with us. What about you, did anyone stand out to you? Chris? Absolutely, Chris. I think what was eye opening for Chris when we did her exit interview was that she saw how she impacted the people. Yeah, she was in situation ships with I think that hurt her deeply, Yeah, and she I think it meant something for her to say, I don't want to do this to people anymore, you know. And I love that she is becoming more of this person like every even if it's a situation ship that I get into, I will be more intentional and I will make sure that I don't hurt this person. I agree with you. I think the intentionality, of course, it's like what do you want? But a lot of it is how are you treating others too? I think that is a big part of it. We hear from modern dating all the time that people are frustrated and hurt because they feel like they're treated like they're disposable. Yeah, and I think the first step of getting out of this that cycle is kind of being the person you want to date yourself and realizing like, oh, actually I might do that too a little exactly. I might leave someone on red or disappear from a convote. But to stop doing stuff like that, Yes, that is so important. Yes, look in work first. Well, I think this is actually a really good place to leave this discussion, at least for now. And we will resume our normal exit interview format next week with a brand new guest, Kristen, who worries that she may be so intimidating that she's scaring away dates. Now is this true or something else is the problem? We'll just have to see, So make sure to subscribe to Exit Interview to be the first to listen, and while you're at it, leave us a rating and review. You know, this helps us so so much. We would say again, but this is what keeps podcasts alive, It keeps us going, So drop us five stars. Oftentimes we'd think like, oh, we don't need to do that, but really, like that is our one gift that we're asking from you. Yeah, and we can continue the discussion on Instagram. You can find us at Exit Interview Show or on Twitter at x Interview Show. Okay, Well, thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. Bye. This episode was coordinated by Katia Kupalian, Creative produced by Samantha Martin, and edited by Jen Jacobs. We are produced by Abigail Steckler at Little Scorpion Studios, with executive producers Uashoe, Julie Kraftchick, and Frolic Media. This is an iHeartRadio podcast.