Do You Want Connection or Just Attention? w/ Kyle

Published May 4, 2023, 9:00 AM

Kyle is a sex empowerment coach on the search for a primary partner who can fit in with his polyamorous lifestyle. You may have caught him on Amazon Prime’s The One that Got Away. Why can’t he be as open with his heart as his sexuality? Julie Krafchick and Yue Xu of Dateable put Kyle in the hot seat this week for the ultimate romance review: calling up his old flames to find out what he’s doing wrong. And some of these women have shocking stories to share. Why did Sam leave their road trip only two days in? Why did Nicki swear off dating apps for good after their experience? And what exactly happened with Zian at their shamanic retreat? You won’t want to miss a minute of this conversation.  


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Episode transcript here —> https://shorturl.at/afjJV


Show Credits

Executive Producers:  Yue Xu, Julie Krafchick and Folic Media

Producer:  Abigail Steckler and Little Scorpion Studios

Editor: Jen Jacobs

Creative Producer: Samantha Martin

Casting: Salt & Lime Media



Kyle is a nomadic physical therapist and a sex empowerment coach who, despite all of his expertise, can't find a steady romantic partner to fit his non monogamous lifestyle. But maybe some of his.

Exits have a thing or two to say. This is exited term you. I'm Ushu and I'm Julie Kraftchik.

We are so excited to be back, and we are you know, in case you don't know who, we are, active daters turned dating sociologists, and for almost a decade we've been studying modern dating and talking to thousands of daters about dating on our other podcast called Datable, and we're trying to figure out how do we build meaningful relationships in a time where people feel more disconnected than.

Ever, Yes, ironically more connect did but disconnected all at the same time. And we're so excited to bring all our learnings to this project Exit Interview, where we're talking to people's past flames, whether that's one date they've been on a hookup an x of many years. We're really digging into what's going on, what's holding people back from getting the love life.

They want opening the X files. If this sounds super dramatic and slightly terrifying. You're right, I'm slightly terrified. We've reached out to these old flames ourselves. We've spoken to them, and we are here to give that honest feedback.

Yeah, and we're talking to our data today. Kyle. He knows a lot about love life, sex, but we still can't find that anchoring relationship. And what drew us to Kyle too is he was actually on a reality TV show, The One That Got Away on Amazon, which is something that you and I both watched.

We love that show so much.

And one thing you always adds when you're watching reality TV is is this person on here to find a connection or do they just like the attention of being on televisions? And I think, you know, we're going to dig into that with Kyle a lot more. But have you ever felt like someone really is using dating for attention over connection.

I've never personally dated someone like that because I prefer people who are recluse and don't have social media and attention.

You and are very.

Similar in that way my current partner, past partners, one of their gem like qualities is though they don't have social media. But I think dating apps bring out this attention side for people. A lot of times we are more focused on getting to like date three, not because we like the person, but because we want the validation or they give us that feeling of oh, someone's into me, which is attention.

You know, let's be real here. It's nice to get attention, Yeah, nothing wrong with that, but sometimes we need to be more intentional about what we're swiping for. You have to ask, am I trying to build up my fan base? Or am I looking for a real connection? And that is exactly what we're going to dig into with our guests for this episode. Kyle. We first heard of Kyle on Amazon Primes show The One That Got Away. Julie and I love that show. And with a life as sexually explorative and public as Kyle's, there's no way his relationship history could not be full of crazy adventures and even crazier drama. And yes, when we reach out to one of his longest term access we received this text, Kyle is quote a narcissist, probably needs psychiatric help.

Sam yup.

That's all we got from her, and honestly, that's just the beginning. You're going to love hearing from some of these old flames and we'll see how Kyle takes the feedback. Please welcome Kyle, Kyle, thanks for coming on the Exit Interview. How are you feeling?

Thank you for having me. I am stoked to be here, not sure what to expect, but I'm open to the mystery and the experience here.

Nice.

I mean, that's all we can really ask for, right, But here's what we know about you so far. We know that you are a traveling a physical therapist as well as a sex empowerment coach. We know that you are very open about sexuality in an effort to make people feel comfortable in their own skin. We also know that you were featured on an Amazon Prime show called The One That Got Away that Julia and I religiously watched.

Yeah we did, but especially with being on reality TV being an influencer. What we wanted to figure out today after talking to the many past flames of yours, are you looking for connection or just attention?

Wow?

I totally hear you, and that's Suez.

That's what we're kind of setting out to look at today. What made you interested in doing this exit interview?

There's so many things that I could better about myself and I don't want to continue the patterns that I had been in for so many years, and so this is an opportunity for feedback. And I'm sure that some of the criticisms aren't going to be great, and that's okay. I can take it. But it's a learning moment so that I can hopefully take something away from it and move forward as a better human and a better suitor and a better coach for my clients that I work with clients.

Okay, So I just want to clarify this a little bit. We do understand you have somewhat of an unusual line of work. Can you break that down for us.

So to keep it short, I mean, I'm a sex empowerment coach. I'm also a physical therapist, but I mainly focus on the coaching now. But in addition to that, with a lot of the topics that I talk about in the sex realm, I also am a sex worker. Through making content on OnlyFans and through that, there's a lot of people who have stigmas and have opinions about that and feel insecure about their partners putting themselves out there, whether it's solo content or they're making it with other people. And someone who is a little bit more sexually open might be okay with that or might actually even want to make content together.

Let's go back a bit, like, what are some of your patterns and how do you think they developed?

So I struggled with self love as I grew up, and once I got to college, I found out that I was good at sex apparently, and this was a way for me to find love. In a way I connected sex to love. I was like, oh, like I could finally get people to like me, not showing the true reasons why I want to be with someone. So unfortunately I did a lot of the fuck boy shit because I truthfully was just looking for love and wanted to feel good about myself, and so I didn't feel worthy of a quality woman. Truthfully, I didn't feel worthy of someone who was doing well in life, had a decent income. Everything was about money. So now ever, since I was like, I want to be able to be financially secure and stable, and that's a part of being able to provide as a man in society. And if you can't provide, you get completely emasculated, especially today where women are doing a lot better in society and getting great jobs. And making better incomes, which is amazing. But a lot of those women are saying, well, why do I need you if I'm making more money than you?

Would you say? Some of those fuck way tendencies creep back up.

I mean, I try not to as much as possible because I don't want to be that person again. I don't want to hurt people.

So what are you looking for right now? What is it that you want in your romantic life.

I'm living in Costa Rica right now. I'm living nomadically at the moment, and so dating is a little different down here. I would love to have a primary partner. And I say primary partner because for the past few years I've been in the world of ethical non monogamy and exploring that, because that's what really opened the doors for me a lot to accept who I was. I would love to have a romantic relationship with someone, but I also don't want to restrict my ability to love in general, and being ethically non monogamous and being open about this has opened a lot of doors for me to be able to love more than one person.

Describe kind of the dream primary partner that you want.

Dream primary partner. She has her own goals. Understands that first we have to focus on each of us separately, and then us secondly, because I want you to go after your goals. I want you to go after that. I want you to create the life that you want, create the life that I want, and we bring that together and expand it even further.

So we're gonna get into our first past flame for you. So, our first person we spoke to was Morgan. So you two met at a travel healthcare conference in Vegas last year. Why did you put Morgan on your list?

Well, Morgan was the first who came to mind. It's funny when we first met, we were at this conference and we had been drinking. We were at this party and she was just giving me the fuck me eyes from like across the dance floor for like a half hour straight. I'm like on the dance floor with others. I'm like, all right, let me finally go talk to this person. Ever since then, she's just been really cool. We've stayed in touch, and when we finally got to get in touch again in person the following year, it was like nothing changed. And she's just very cute, smart, So I just really wanted to get more insight onto what she thought about me?

Why did things not progress into a partnership.

So with Morgan, we I've only been able to get in touch at the conferences. It's hard to connect when you're traveling healthcare professionals because you're working in different parts of the world or the country.

Well, it's good to hear your side of things. Shall we hear from Morgan?

Sure, let's do it.

He is just so cute and he's he's he just was super kind and I can tell that he, you know, really likes what he does and that he really cares about people.

So the first time you met, what were your impressions of Kyle?

I literally was just like staring at this sounds so creepy. I feel like it wasn't even not intelling, but you know, like when you're out at a bar and you think someone's cute and you just kind of glance their way every so often, like he has tattoos, Like that's definitely my type. He just came over and talked to me, and I'm pretty sure he was like, are you just gonna stare at me all night? And I was like, you know, I might actually, I mean it worked, so he like came up, we started talking. Super nice, he's really funny, but yeah, definitely super outgoing, probably a little bit of a smooth talker.

So you hooked up. Was this at the first time you met? Also, like the first conference?

Yeah, we slept together the first we slept together last year. We slept together again this year because it was good, So why not? Definitely like no notes.

Was there anything that you saw or experienced or talked to him about that might be getting in his way that he's not aware of.

I think at one point I told him he gave off only child vibes, a little cocky, just kind of like I don't want to say self centered because that sounds so mean. I think he knows that he's attractive. I think he knows that he can pull woman pretty easily, so that that's kind of like the vibe that he gave off.

Do you think he gives off serious relationship vibes?

Definitely more fun hookup vibes. The few short talks that we have a feel like I don't ever remember him mentioning that he was interested in settling down or like interested in a relationship. Really, maybe it's because like the way we know each other is probably more surface level, specifically in our situation, like probably not realistic to think long term vibes when we're not in the same location. I'm a travel nurse and so I kind of hop all around, like I'm in Washington State right now, so we really haven't been in the same place longer than like a week at a time together.

Morgan's a fan, obviously. What did you think of the only child comment?

It doesn't bother me.

Are you an only child?

Oh?

No, I have an older brother, but we don't. We don't talk, so maybe that adds to it. I'm the second I will say, I'm the second child, So maybe second child vibes of like, hey, look at me.

I don't know.

Is Borgan the type of person you would want as a primary partner?

A ton of qualities that I would love to have in a partner. You know, she has this very I call it like a like a childlike nature, Like she's very very happy, and like you could get her a donut and she'll be super stoked about it, right, just like a little kid would. And I love that part of people when they can just get excited about the little things and they're always just happy and that's Morgan.

Well, we're going to get to our next old flame from yours. I guess they're not even old flames. They're just friends with benefits. They're women in your orbit. This is Sam. You two met online really jibed. Tell us a little bit about why you put Sam on your list.

We've had an interesting relationship like good and bad, but we're still very tight, very close, Like you know, we're there for each other, understand each other. She's very sexually open and like she's a content creator just like I am. And we've made content.

To other So how did you guys meet?

She does like online marketing and some other things in addition to being a content creator. And she wanted to help me out with my business because she saw my potential and she just wanted to be of assistance. And so we started working together in a way, and you know that brings its own dynamic. And at one point last year, I decided to rent out a converted van a converted bus to live out of for about four to five months. Yolo, let's try it out. See if it's a lifestyle I want to live.

Why not?

Yeah?

And while I was on that journey, she was interested in coming along with me, and I said, sure, why not. It'll help me out. She can help me with work, we can make content together. I'll not be alone. And god, it lasted all of like two or three days of her in the van.

Days.

Yeah, hold tight, this exit interview will continue in just a moment.

It lasted all of like two or three days of her in the vand days yeah yeah. And I won't go too much into it, but just just for her sake, because I do care about her. But let's just say some things happened on the road, not within my realm, Like we broke down on the side of the road. We just got into an argument. It was stressful, and I just said, maybe this isn't the right time, maybe this maybe you should go spend time on your own. And ever since she's been on her own, I've been doing my thing and we've kind of reconnected and understand like should happened, and it wasn't just the best situation for both of us at the time.

I think Sam has a pretty different take from you on that trip. So let's let's hear what Sam had to say.

We first met when I was living in Denver. Me'm not online We've never like been in the same place for a long period of time, but we've always maintained friendship. We talk all the time. He has always given me top tier advice, Like I've never been steered wrong by that man. He's phenomenal at what he does. He's very intelligent, very sensitive, and he's very empathetic, so he tends to understand what people are going through. And then we ended up on the road together for a while as well when he had his van, so we actually lived together for like two weeks, which was super cool.

And that was under romantic context. No, well kind of.

I really don't know how to define my relationship with Kyle, Like he's one of my closest friends on the planet.

But you hook up, yeah, not often.

I think the main problem that we've always had was we're always in different places, so there's no potential there in a serious way. He's just never around long enough to develop a serious relationship with I work with him a lot on like just kind of building his brand and helping him get to where he wants to be. That's kind of like my back end stuff. He calls me his whiteboard.

I thought you were to say, like work wife, but I like whiteboard better.

I like whiteboard too.

Yeah, I'm where he goes to put all his ideas.

When you say you do work for him, he pays you for that work.

I don't like charging him. It bothers me, but he insists on paying.

What was the extent of your conversations with him, especially about what he's looking for.

He always talks to me about like what he's feeling. He'll call me crying. He gets really overwhelmed a lot, and it's because he has a lot of passion for what he does, and he doesn't know if he's always doing it to the best of his ability, and he questions himself. The lack of confidence that's displayed is not something that I think a woman might want. He doesn't know if he's going to make it. He doesn't know if this is this is going to be the career for him.

He doesn't know.

I feel like I would want my man to be more confident in his skills in that position, especially being that he's like kind of a guide.

Was there anything that you saw that might be getting in his way that he's not aware of.

I think he needs to settle somewhere. I think he needs to focus more on living his life and less on being this great influencer. It doesn't seem like he loves it that much anymore. I think he should focus on what's in front of him instead of what he could have.

Okay, a lot to take it. How do you feel about your relationship with Sam? Like, are you good with the status quo of it being kind of undefined and as you see each other or do you want more from it?

Truthfully?

I think like enough has happened in our past that I would see her no more than a friend moving forward.

So one thing that's interesting when we talk to Sam, she freaking adored you. Like that was so clear from like the entire conversation. Number one fan, Yes, number one fan, and she feels so close to you, But it doesn't feel like you're viewing her necessarily the same way. Do you feel like there's an imbalance? And is that okay?

I mean I appreciate that she adores me, and yeah, like she said, she's never wanted to pay me for services and all these things, like she just she loves me as a person and I've always known that. It's just we've had some things come up, whether it's through working together or through our relationship or the time we live together. That just really we do need to work through some of those things, in my opinion, and I would love to so that we can get to a point where we do have an even closer relationship.

What do you think about her describing you feeling overwhelmed a lot of times? Where is this overwhelmed feeling coming from?

The overwhelm comes from like not being successful enough, not having enough right wanting to provide. That's where the overwhelm comes from. Is I put a lot of pressure on myself to succeed, and that pressure to succeed financially and career wise gets in the way often of my ability to pursue and enjoy some of the things that I do have.

What are your thoughts about her talking about like living life through too much through social media.

Yeah, I definitely understand where she's coming from. There's been times where, like I was living in Las Vegas prior to this, I bought a property there, and you know, I didn't really have a lot of friends there, and so I was often by myself. And a lot of my work is online, it's through social media, it's through creating content and although there's a lot of good relationships that have come from that, there's a big part of not meeting people in person.

Who are your closest friends.

They're scattered across the country. I'm originally from the East Coast, and so when I was living out in Vegas, it was a whole new place. I was living out in San Diego at a time. I was a traveling physical therapist, so often I was moving to places where I didn't have anyone with me, and so I have friends, but it's very small, very very close knit. I only keep certain people close.

Got it, Okay, So we just heard from a few people that are big fans. But we have another old flame that has a slightly different perspective. So next up we have Nicki h Jeez, who's also Polly and also wants a serious long term partner like you do. I feel like on paper, you two actually have a lot in common. But we talked to her. She's a sex worker, loves making adult content. You two met online and dated a couple months. Tell us a little more about Niki.

When I first met her was when I first got my property in Las Vegas, which was late twenty twenty. I moved into it, and she was one of the first people I met in Las Vegas. She was very spontaneous. We made one of the hottest videos that I've ever made. I've helped make her a ton of money with that video. Let's see if she admits to that very sexually open, which was a big factor for me.

We're talking about sexual content, right.

Yeah, yeah, thank you for clarifying. It wasn't dancing videos on TikTok to like breaking it too montage in the middle yet, well there was that too, probably.

No, it was more like, you know, her her tripping and falling.

You know, why did she put Nikki on the list?

I knew she would have some feedback. I'm down, I'm okay with it. It's fine.

I can't believe that I allowed myself to get into this situation.

Oh no, let's go to that.

Okay, let's go there.

Strapping ladies.

We met on Hinge and I was like, cool, he has tattoos and travel pictures, so like, I guess I'll give it a shot. I think he is one of the only people I've ever met on Hinge and it was kind of over. After that, I was like, I can't do a dating apps anymore?

Were you on the market for a relationship.

I'm like non monogamous, so it's typically open, but I was like very clear, I am looking for a partner, like a long term relationship.

Do you recall having deep conversations with him, especially about what he's looking for in a relationship.

Anytime I tried to go deep, he kept at service level, and it would always like turn it around and ask me questions instead of like really like allowing himself to like sit there and like answer and think about like what it is that he wanted.

So how do things progress?

Three days after we met, we went to Mexico. As soon as we get there, he jumps on hinge and he's like, let's find somebody'd have a threesome with, which, like I'm very sexually liberated and like very open, but I was like, we've known each other for three days, so like, I don't know how comfortable I am with this, but like you can try to find that, like let me know how it goes for you. Threesomes are Kyle's favorite thing. I'm enjoying these experiences with you. That is the one thing that I think we can take away from this whole thing is like the sex was fantastic. Like, if there's one thing I can say I enjoyed about that relationship, it was the sex. And that's probably about it. We had a blast, but like the entire time there was like this pit in my stomach of just like something's off and I couldn't quite put my finger on it. And so we went back from the trip. He goes off to work. I ended up like being in northern California working at the time to meet up with my friend. I'm like out there visiting him and he's like, hey, like, how would you feel about like me going to like play with this friend if like you weren't there. She also approached me, She's like, how would you feel about this? Like I'm not looking for anything serious, Like it's just going to be like a very sexual thing and like nothing further for me. And I'm like, I'm fine with that as long as like that's what it stays as. So he comes back and he's like, we had a really great time, but like, I don't I really know if we like vibes that much, Like our lifestyles are super different, and like I just like I don't know if it's like something that I really want, so I think I'm going to have to go back again. And like right before he leaves, I'm like, hey, like I just want you to know, like I'm feeling really uncomfortable and like not prioritized, so like I'm not asking you to change anything, but i just want you to know, like this is how I feel. And he's like, well, this just pissed me off. Like I'm getting ready to leave.

I've had such a stressful day.

And like he was so insatiable about like getting everything he wanted. Every time I had a separate conversation with them, it was like I was getting two different stories and I was like, Okay, somebody's lying here, and like I feel like I'm outside of this already, so I need to know what's going on. And then eventually my friend came to me and she's like, yeah, so like I've been developing feelings for him, and like I think we want to give it a shot. And I was like, Okay, thank you for finally being honest with me. I don't want to be a part of this.

So you two are clearly open, but what I'm hearing is it's more about you feeling deprioritized than him, like with another person.

Like you are a complete stranger to me. I have no idea who you even are. I do not know Kyle other than like lying and manipulative, And I'm like, can this be like my actual exit from your life?

Well, I would say she's probably not a fan.

Not like the earlier too, that's for sure.

But we do have some positives from this. You are fantastic in bed and you're charming, So we'll start with the positive. Where do you think things went wrong?

Wow? God, there's a lot left out. We didn't really know each other that long, but we started like hanging out often, and me and that friend we started friendly chatting, and I said, hey, like before we do anything, like, let's check in with Nikki and see if this is okay with her. She was okay with everything until the day before I was flying to go see your friend, literally like hours before. Yeah, so it put me in a bad spot. And you know, I'm gonna be honest, like, yeah, there were times where I was upset, but I really do think she's exaggerating.

So you weren't aware that she wasn't feeling prioritized or you felt like she was saying that it was okay.

This was one of the first times I was really dating more than one person, and I wanted to do it right. Yeah. So she led me on thinking that these things were okay, when in reality she couldn't face the truth and be honest with both of us, saying like, hey, it's not okay. Hey, can we really discuss this further.

It's definitely three sides of the story, for sure. I agree, it's your side, their side, and what actually happened is always somewhere in the middle.

Yeah. From her perspective, she thought it was just a casual play date that you and her friend were going to engage in. She didn't realize that there were actually feelings involved.

Yeah, so we had that was the initial like hey, we're gonna go hang out, We're gonna have a good time. And then it was till after that that we continue to keep her in the loop on how things were progressing, and she was still okay with it.

Say so.

She did say something though, that was a similar theme to some of the others, that things only went surface level, that she didn't feel like she knew the real Kyle, do you have any thoughts about.

That I couldn't even like I was an estate where I couldn't even cry. I was struggling to even know myself. And you know, I don't blame myself. I was going through some shit and it's not an excuse, but it was hard to It's hard to open up to someone when you don't even know who you are, Like how you want to open up?

I want to move on to the last person we talked to, who is your friend? Zion? And you two met at a shamanic sexual training in Sedona, and you just became platonic friends, which is very different than most of the other people we've talked to. No sex in the picture. Why was she someone that stayed platonic for you?

So?

I mean, Zion, we met, Yes, we met at an interesting place. It's part of my sexuality training, and in that realm, we learned a lot about ourselves and it's a very sensitive area, very vulnerable, and we just really got in touch with each other, really vibed with one another and just there was flirtatious vibes like there were you know, there was cuddling and stuff like that. But it's just not something we wanted to pursue. In that time period, and it's just become like a good friendship again from a distance.

And why did you want us to talk to her, Zion?

I just know like she's seen a side of me that a lot of people haven't. I thought she could bring a lot of insight in perspective, and she's gotten to know me on a level that other people haven't.

Okay, let's hear it. I'm Zion.

Then I would introduce him as one of the most grounded yet unpredictable special humans.

Have you ever thought about dating Kyle? Like when you met him?

Oh, immediately, I was like, I'm very attracted to him. He was actually the first person that I connected with at this training, and I thought that him and I were going to have all of these wild experiences together. Then we started like chatting and we just wound up never doing it. So it was kind of by accident that we just became friends. And I'm so happy with our relationship because knowing Kyle now, like the way we view dating is so different. I'm just in my core a monogamous dater. My body really wants Kyle, but my heart knows that in a relationship it wouldn't be a safe choice for me.

In terms of your relationship with him, how would you describe him?

I feel that Kyle wants to be seen. I feel that I get access to parts of him as a friend that I'm not sure if I would get access to if we were to sleep together.

What do you know about his dating history.

I have seen firsthand that Kyle ruffles a lot of feathers. He just doesn't give a fuck what people think of him, and I've seen it backfire on him with women where she wasn't being her and she wasn't being seen, and that there was a little bit of this like just a lot of intensity.

Kyle has a lot of intensity.

I also can see it being used as like an escape mechanism to not get too emotionally close to people. In the beginning parts of our interaction. In our relationship, I felt there was an emotional block, and I'm curious to see if part of the powamory practice has to do with escaping from wanting to go really, really deep emotionally with one person. I would love to see Kyle be as open with his heart as he is with his sexuality. Maybe an underlying motive for also like being on these shows, and what he's looking for is for someone to be so such a strong force that they just shatter through all of the walls that he's put up.

What do you think is getting in his way of leading with that stuff?

I actually feel like his work is getting in the way of his love life because to be really soft and to let his guard down and to really truly let someone in isn't really on brand. So I'm curious actually to ask him if there's a fear around kind of losing credibility in a way, or like losing everything he's built to really be seen.

Okay, fascinating.

I mean again, this is why I had Zion on because she's very insightful person. And again we've met, we've met in a different realm that people don't understand.

She puts it together so well, she's like, can't he be as open with his heart as he is with his sexuality? What are your thoughts about that?

Taking a quick ad break and then we've got more exit interview craziness just for you.

She puts it together so well, she's like, can't he be as open with his heart as he is with his sexuality? What are your thoughts about that?

I will say this, A lot of the time, I've been worried about getting into relationship because I fear the like I'm going to waste all this time and it's not going to be the person, and like it's going to stop me from all these other things that I could have had. And also I do recognize that when I am in a relationship, I want I want to like often be with that person a lot, and I want to like provide and do things and cook dinner and go on dates. But I struggled to maintain that like boundaries with that, and that leads to taking away from my ability to focus on the other things I need to focus on, like my business and my ability to bring an income, And that's an issue for me that I recognize I do need to work on as like having those boundaries of like, hey, we can't just hang out all the time.

I think. You know, Zion was definitely insightful and brought a lot of the conversations together that we've had. And you know, first these first overall, you know, minus Niki and maybe the state of where you were at the time, everyone else generally loved you. They thought you were sweet, sexy, Charving They all said you were good to bed, including Nikki, so that was definitely something that was going for you. But where you can improve on. I love how Zion put it, How do you start to lead and be as open with your heart as your sexuality. I feel like you showed Zion a separate side of you, and she even said it too that if you two had hooked up, you probably wouldn't have been as open with her.

Yeah, we understand you have a hard time getting close to people, and you also mentioned earlier about past partners using you. So how do you think this is showing up in your relationships and in your love life.

It's interesting you say these things because I put myself out there and attract people because I talk about such vulnerable topics and I go there on topics that a lot of people don't because they're afraid to be vulnerable. And I am authentic in that way of like talking about these things like breath of fresh air, and that's why they come close to me, because I am authentic in that way, and I teach people how to be more open with themselves and just accept themselves. But you know that reflection of like where am I holding back and where my closing off my heart is. It's still a work in progress.

I mean you said it yourself, right. It's like you attract people for the vulnerability on the sexual side, Like, how can you do that with the emotional side. Yeah, the stuff you were sharing with us was Zion would love for you to share that more on dates and you need someone that's going to appreciate that.

Yeah, and I mean I would. I would, And maybe you could check out my content because I would argue that I do. I do go there at times. I try to not be crying on social media all the time because I'm not trying to be like.

We're not talking about social media though, we're talking about your dating life. Dating life, Yes, right, I think that's the distinction too, Like there's the Kyle social media, there's Kyle dating And where does one persona end and the other begin. I think that's the part we want the real Kyle. Like when the cameras are off, who is Kyle? That's that's going to find your person?

Yeah, listen, Kyle, I just get a sense that you live in a pressure cooker. This is why overwhelmed is a word to describe you, because you've got the pressure from society. You've got the pressure from yourself, and then you've got this pressure from your brand. Of being on the Kyle brand is restricting your life. We get that you become very vulnerable on your social media, but you're vulnerable in a way that doesn't allow people to be closer to you. You're vulnerable in a way that allows people to be professionally closer to you. But even what you just told us on this podcast of the old Kyle, the shadows that are creeping back up, the pressures to be good enough, you're not showing that side. And that's the Kyle that can come out of this pressure cooker that you're putting so much emphasis on the external that you're getting a little lost in the internal. And even Zion set it too. It's like you don't give a fuck. But also just right, I just got to live life right. You can't live life for the story, you can't live life for the Graham. You got to live life for Kyle.

Yeah, yeah, you're not wrong there.

Obviously, we all want to build our empires, we want to leave the legacy. But the people in your life, that is what's important. So making room for them, and you know, I think there's this element too of that we've talked about it like beyond the surface, Like how do I get deeper with some of the folks that are entering my life and really making them feel seen and heard? You know, Nikki was a while ago, but it was clear that like she didn't feel that, and you know, even Sam like it felt like a little one sided. I think even if it's just a hookup, even if it's just one of many partners, like, how can you start to really hear your partner out and connect that way, because that will be so essential for building that you know, having that primary partner someday. Yeah, And I think sometimes it's hard on the go when you're always remote. I mean, traveling is amazing, don't get me wrong, But the downside is it's hard to have that community that I think is what's missing for you that will give you that you internal like fill your own cup and not necessarily have to use dating and sex and all that as that means.

Yeah, when I was a traveling physical therapist, that led to me creating community online because I was moving every three months. Yeah, and so you can't it's hard to create community or even meet even just one good person in those travels. So that's been my source of connection generally speaking, and it helps. If I didn't have that, i'd have nothing.

It's definitely helpful, but it's not enough to you know. I think the screen there's a limitation.

The nomadic lifestyle also feeds the avoidant monster. So the more you travel, the more you escape, the more of you become. None of these people we talk to today live in your city or have lived in your same city. They've all said, well, they're distance. There's distance between us. There's a reason for that because you are I kind of feel like you're the catch me if you can kind of guy.

There's almost a safeness to it being the distance, right. The reason why it didn't work out is because we couldn't be together. We're too far apart, and that doesn't let you get real. That doesn't let you, you know, really get vulnerable and see where this relationship could go with someone. So again, we don't want to tell you to change your lifestyle by any means, but I think, how can you find more of that as you're doing you because that will help you in the long run.

I think part of getting there is putting myself in the communities where I'll find more of the people that will understand me, and I'll be more destined to find someone yeah, who's understanding of the work that I do and who I am.

It sounds like there's almost a bit of loneliness right and lost Vegas, you didn't have that support system. Your friends are scattered at this point. I feel like that's almost why you're even hanging on to these people that you met at a conference once or twice. Yeah, not to say that like you can't continue relationships with them, and you know, we're not going to tell you, like not to sleep with people without being or in a relationship. Absolutely not. But sometimes having like the community outside of that makes it less of like a need to find those people too, because you're nourished with connection.

Yeah.

So I think ultimately, like the question we had for you was, is it connection or attention that you're actually looking for? I think you and I have an opinion, but we're curious what your takeaway is Before we get into that.

Pull tight this exit interview will continue. You've been just a moment.

I think you and I have an opinion, but we're curious what your takeaway is before we get into that.

Yeah, I'm like on social media and stuff, but and I run a business. The idea is to get attention, and anyone who's running a business who says it's not is lying because attention is what brings business in and how I get my message out there to help more people. But am I looking for attention to like feel validated in myself in some ways, yes, because I get that validation through having a successful business and helping people. So yeah, there is some attention seeking, but it's in the way of, like, I want to help people.

I think part of the reason you've used social media as a substitute for in person connection because you don't have that community.

And what we're hearing from you is you are looking for love, You are looking for a deeper connection. And so the difference between connection and attention here is one is very quantifiable. Attention is quantifiable. It's in how followers you have, how many minutes someone watches your video. But connection is not quantifiable. And I want to bring this back to something that was interesting that you said earlier, where I get the sense that you think a partner actually takes away from you, takes away time takes away money, takes away attention, when a partner should actually build more abundance in your life. They give you more time, they give you more attention. So it's not the quantity of the time that they're teeing away from you. They're probably filling that with the quality of the connection that probably outweighs the time that you could have been spending on your business. So maybe it's just a little shift that you can't apply those business principles to love because love doesn't work like that, and we can think about it more in abundance versus people taking away from you.

I agree that like coming together should be able to expand and bringing you your strengths together should expand your love and your life. I recognize those things one hundred percent, and I really just need to put myself in those circles where there are going to be better candidates for me in regards to acceptance of who I am and what I do. Are you like you're cool with that, Like you're very fluid and open. Its actually great.

Let's say you do find that community and you do meet a very intriguing woman and think there is potential there. What is the one thing that you may do differently in meeting her after this conversation, I.

Would say, focus on just that one person for a little bit and really just build that connection and in a closed manner and say that if we're going to go there, I don't want to make a mistake that I made in a previous relationship, because I want to make sure.

Hey, we are good.

So if we both do want to have some form of openness, we're solid and we don't have to worry about that then and there. But it would definitely be building that foundation with just that person first.

That makes a lot of sense. Yep, we won't give you any more questions. We've put you through the rigular enough. But hopefully this was helpful. We learned a lot about you. Hopefully you learned even more about yourself.

Really appreciate your openness, and thank you for teaching me something too, because I just realized a light bulb moment is the key to a healthy open relationship is to be able to build strong connections, because sometimes we think about open relationships as like being able to handle multiple people. No, it's actually being able to focus on one person while you're with them and being present with them. So thank you. I learned that today.

Thank you for having me.

That was such an interesting conversation. I feel like, you know, I feel like we hear this a lot. You a like vulnerability and what does that actually mean. It was so interesting to hear Kyle's definition of it, and it was really hard to tease apart what was being vulnerable in front of an audience versus vulnerable in a romantic sense of like intimate relationships.

This is kind of my gripe with the Instagram generation. Remember that period in time when everyone was posting no filter, no makeup photos. Is there being quote unquote vulnerable And that's not about being vulnerable. I think that's about being part of a trend. That's about being whatever that may be. But it's not vulnerable. I think there's just this buzzword that we haven't really defined. So it's not anybody's fault. It just seems like it's trendy to say you are vulnerable when you really aren't. After this conversation, I feel like I have a better understanding of who Kyle is, more than what I saw on his Instagram and his TikTok.

And more that he lets the people he dates or hooks up with ever see. You know, I love per Day Brown, but I think like she definitely was the one that started the vulnerability trend. But I actually was reading in her book recently, and what like the moments of vulnerability are you know, telling someone that you had a good time on the date, telling them that you're scared to get back into dating, not just you know, putting yourself out there in front of thousands of followers. It's really getting to the root of things that could actually like make something not work out, and and dating especially like there's all these moments that it can be really scary that we don't know what's going to happen, we don't know how we'll be perceived and what the other person wants. But it's almost like this line of like fake vulnerability versus actual vulnerability.

And I think Kyle had a hard time differentiating between his professional vulnerability and his personal vulnerability, which is the more authentic side of who he is. I would go as far as to argue, whatever you put on social media is not vulnerable. No, it's the moments we don't see of you in a social setting that's when you're most vulnerable. And I hope that after this discussion, Kyle does see the difference between his professional persona versus the authentic Kyle that is just so caring and kind and very empathetic.

Definitely, and I think he will get there, especially as someone you know that's kind of in this educational space, like it's hard to get in touch with what it actually means on your own side and with your own personal life.

Yeah. Wow, I hope we opened up this other v side of him, the vulnerable side of him. And at the beginning of this conversation, before meeting him, you know, we got that text from his ex calling him a narcissist, how he needs psychiatric help. And I was ready, Julie, I was ready. I was like, let's meet this guy. But now, after this very well rounded conversation, I get a better sense that I think Kyle's just really trying to find himself.

Everyone at their mother wants to be vulnerable, and I think it's important. It's clearly an essential relational skill. But what I'd love for Kyle to do and all our listeners out there, instead of saying I'm vulnerable or I need to be vulnerable, what does that mean to you? What is an actual action? I can take. That's how we start to put this stuff into motion a bit more.

That's a great takeaway for all of our listeners. What is being vulnerable mean to you? And how do I start being more vulnerable? And next week we have another great guest. She's a single mom who worries that being a single parent is getting in the way of her finding love.

You can subscribe to Exit Interview to be the first to listen. Also, drop us a review. You know, this is what keeps this podcast going. It really helps us out. So if you love what you're hearing, you've been entertained, you've been getting your own insight, drop us that five stars and then the review. And you can also follow us on Instagram at Exit Interview Show and Twitter at x Interview Show.

Wonderful. Thank you all so much for listening, and we'll see you all next week.

See you next week.

This episode was coordinated by Katia Kupelian, creative produced by Samantha Martin and edited by Jen Jacobs. We are produced by Abigail Steckler at Little Scorpion Studios, with executive producers Uishu, Julie Kraftjik and Frolic Media. This is an iHeartRadio podcast,

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