Situation ships. They're all too common this day and age. But Christopher, well, she's the queen of situation chips and the fairest of them all. This is Exit Interview. Hi. I'm Ushu and I'm Julie Kraftchick. We are active daters turned dating sociologists, where we've spoken to thousands of daters through our podcast Datable and have been featured in publications like well New York Times, CNN. Having to post just a name a few, not to brag, no big deal. But today we are taking all of our learnings and we are doing a new experiment, the exit interview. And what is the exit interview. We take a person who is struggling to find a healthy relationship and we try to get to the bottom. Why we do this by talking to their exes, their former flames, people maybe they've gone on one or two dates with and what we find out for them can be brutal, but it is refreshing and it's productive. And today is no exception because we have a great data. She's really good at getting herself into situationships which might be all too familiar for many of you, but not so great about actually communicating what she wants out of a relationship and what our situationships For anybody who's wondering, is that even a real word? Yeah, ish, it is a real word. It's when a relationship is not formalized. Yeah, it's really anything that's ambiguous. In the start of dating, you generally don't know what's happening, but where they become almost a four MOMENTI relationships as when you're a month, three months, six months down the line and you're like, what are we doing here? And I don't know about you? You A but I feel like the times that I've had situation relationships, it's because I've wanted to play it cool, just see how it progresses. But I just spend all this time agonizing over what's actually happening, and it almost it's more painful because you don't talk to the person like in a relationship when something's coming out, you actually have conversations, But in a situationship, your mindset is, well, it's not serious, we should be talking about where our relationship is going, and that resentment builds and builds, and then you approach the person and confronts them with a question, what are we doing here? What are ye and That's kind of the problem is that it comes out of left field. It feels confrontational. I've done this one too many times, and the person on the receiving end is like, how come we weren't talking about this earlier? Why is this coming out the day before Valentine's saying, which is what happened to me. So it catches people off guard. And what I like about our discussion here is that we can all learn from when our situationships beneficial and when are they hurting us? Yeah, I mean I found myself in situationships long before it was a word. It was just there was no term for it. It was just this limbo state of undefinedness. And a big part of it was that I was scared of something real. I remember a friend of mine kept saying, are you sure you want a relationship? Because why would you be pursuing this person that clearly isn't giving you an actual relationship. So a lot of times we do it as a self protection mechanism, and it's not always what we actually want, or maybe we aren't ready for something real, and it's a good fallback. Those are good learnings because some of us are default setting is to say, I want a relationship, but being in a situationship maybe a good time for you to realize maybe I'm not ready for a relationship. Maybe I don't want that. Yeah. So that brings us to our guest today. Christopher is insanely charismatic and lovable, but despite her very best intentions, she leaves a trail of hurt feelings and broken hearts and her dating wake. We have no doubt that by the end of this conversation you two will hail her as the Queen of situation ships. Please welcome, Christopher. Here we are Chris. Hello, here we are. Do you prefer Chris or Christopher? Most people call me Chris. Okay, cool, Well, we're going to get right into it. Because we've been hearing so much about you. I'm sure only bad thing. Well, let's get to it. No, No, we've heard quite good things. Don't you worry. Okay, Chris. This is what we know about you. We know that you work as a hairdresser and at your local animal shelter in Virginia Beach. We know that you love animals, you foster lots of cats and dogs, and you are a big fan of all things outdoors. We also know that you're matched in the Virginia Beach queer community and you are very much a frequent fixture at many bars and clubs in the area. In your dating life, we know that you've had a rocky past, including not only one, but multiple instances of being cheated on, and because of this, you're very wary of being in a serious relationship. Instead, as you search for women to date, you prefer casual situationships. In fact, you've had so many of these that we have crowned you the Queen of situationships. However, what we don't know about you and what we are going to find out together today, is this our situationships the best choice for you or are they pushing you farther away from what you actually want. I have a lot of healing to do, and it wouldn't be fair for the other person to jump into any kind of relationship because it could end up being very toxic. So I stick to situationships, and I always try to be very upfront and clear about that because I don't want to let anyone on. Can you band on what you're healing from. I've had a lot of difficult partners that I've kind of didn't realize how bad it was until like later on and my first girlfriend that I had I found out basically a year and a half later. She had messaged me and asked to talk to me, and she was like, don't worry, it's nothing bad. I'm like, okay, we can talk, and then she, in that conversation told me that during our relationship she had cheated on me with over five different people. But my partner at the time was very I felt very trustworthy. It kind of wasn't until after that that I felt like there was something that was going on. But I went through about a year and a half of being told that I was wrong about that, a little gas lighting, And it wasn't until afterwards that I actually talked to one of my best friends and kind of told her everything that had happened in the last year or so that she was like, Chris, this is really bad. Like this, you know. I didn't believe it was that bad until I was talking about it and hearing myself talk about it more. It's really hard when you're in it, Like we definitely have heard stories very similar to this. I kind of took from realizing that I had stuff to heal from from the one and made sure to remember that so that I could actually take a step back and look at myself and especially especially trust issues. And so I actually feel like, oddly enough, a lot of the situation ships that I've had have kind of helped with that. It's helped me trust my gut instinct, and it's helped me start to try other people a little more. Do you think you're trustworthy? I feel like I am. I think it depends on the kind of trust level that we're talking about too. My trust issue is being able to believe what someone says and believe that they are being loyal. So I feel like I am trustworthy and that I am loyal. There's absolutely no way I will be, you know, unfaithful according to the rules of our relationship. Again, like I said, I try to be as upfront and honest as I can about what I am capable of providing for someone, whether that be physically or emotionally. So I feel like I can be trustworthy with that. Yeah, because it's definitely challenging when you've been in share of bad relationships and you know, really hoping that we can kind of get to the root of you know, some of the things that are holding you back. Yes, it seems like you have a lot to give to someone and we're really helping. This exit interview will help give you the confidence and see what's out there and how you can kind of regain some of that trust for the future. I would love that. So should we go into the wonderful old flames were calling them that we met? Starting with the first one, We've got Sam, No, we understand you and Sam that three am on Tinder, Okay, no judgment there, that's we've all been there. I think she clocked in at three oh five. I don't know, no exact time, but she came over. You guys were kind of friends with benefits. What was it that drew you to Sam? What do you like about her? She's really I thought she was really cool and extremely upfront and we I mean, we clicked a lot. We had similar interests. We connected really well, and and the sex was really good. So okay, that helps. Why did it end? In your opinion, I'm not exactly sure. I feel it was she had started like pulling back a little. We weren't talking as you know, dirty and everything, so I was like, okay, like you're wanting to push back on that. Totally fine, I'm going to respect that. And then i'd found out like a good couple. I think it was like five months later that she had ended up getting into a relationship with someone, and so then I was like, oh, so that's probably why. So I'm guessing that's why. So why put her on your list? Yeah? Part of it was because I was kind of interested in her viewpoint of it all and if we were going to talk about why it ended, I did want a little bit of clarity on that, just because it was a little confusing, and then finding out there was later like a relationship, then wanting to know why, like why I wasn't told this, you know, you know, until it was ending. Should we hear what say had to say? Sure, let's play it back. Her personality is great. I mean, she's really hot, she's funny, she's smart, she's a smart ass. She can keep up with me with drinking. That a that's a big one. Was Chris upfront about what she was looking for at that time. In her profile, she clearly states that it's just for hookups and it's nothing nothing more. So very upfront and honest, and that's what I like so what did friends with benefits look like to you too? We hung out a lot at three am because that's when I got off work. Okay, so that worked out, but we didn't we didn't hang out during the day. She actually met my best friend and her kids. She's still pretty involved with my best friend's kids. She got the puzzles and stuff like that, so she really loved the kids. She does everything that you would in a relationship like dating once. She's nice, she's caring, she's just guarded, and she has her walls up severely. Honestly, this isn't really sounding like a casual situation yet. How are you feeling about everything at this point? By this point, Chris probably already knows that I had feelings for her because of how much we hung out and how I acted. If she doesn't know that, I'd be surprised. Honestly, I think that's why her and I stopped hanging out was because I started to draw back because I didn't want to get more feelings and get hurt. But I wanted to have feelings, but I knew she didn't want them, she didn't want a relationship. So how did things ultimately end? I kind of goes to Chris because I got into the relationship, so I didn't tell her. I just kind of stopped talking to her altogether. She would make a great girlfriend to anybody. She's just scared too. Yeah. No, I did not realize that I saw your feast drop. She told you, but she said that she had feelings for you. Was that the thing that you had no idea? I had no idea? Really, no, I that's a that's us to me. Really? Yeah, you thought it was purely just play and casual. Yeah, I makes a little sense now. You know, if she had expressed her feelings to you, do you think things could have gone a little differently. I mean they definitely would have in the fact that I'd be like, okay, then like maybe we should not be in this situation. Ship if like you need to take some time or anything, or if you like don't want to be friends, then that's totally okay too. Especially if someone's already catching feelings. I don't want them to get more in depth than to them when that's not something that I could provide for them. Then having feelings is already going to hurt when you know, we stop anything. But it's better than getting hurt down the line. What is the most fascinating to us is that in this situationship you do act like you're in a relationship. You give these signals that you're a couple, and you do these things like buying gifts for the best friends kids, and you're still holding on a little bit and being guarded. So what is your interpretation of that. I mean, I will say like it is something I normally do for most friends that I have. I will, you know, get them things. But I can see how that can be interpreted as a relationship thing to do makes me feel really sorry for doing it or no, I mean you're you're being kind and thoughtful, but it could be mixed signals. It can be seen as kind of leading someone on if I'm saying that I don't want anything, and especially if that's what they kind of do in there, if that's one of their love languages or anything. Did you like Sam? Did you have feelings for her? I think it was closeness feelings like when you get closer to someone, um, But I don't think that they were like like leading towards relationship feelings, if that makes sense. But now she's a cool person and we connected, and I thought it'd be cool to see her of things. Well, she really liked you, and she really wanted to dtr with you, apparently did not muster up the courage to do so. But I think it's it's funny that from your side you think she slow faded, but from her side, it's like, well, if Chris is not reciprocating these feelings, I gotta get out somehow. There's you know, there's kind of like running away from you. Yeah. Yeah, And not to foreshadow too much, but oh no, we see that again, just saying just maybe grab a sip of water. We'll be right back. Okay. Well, second old flame, Natalia, we'll get to her. You met also on a n app and on a first date you went to a shooting range. She had a lot of fun. She fond memories of that first date, and there was there was a lot of hanging out, a lot of drinking, going out, hanging out with her friends, and then what happened. She's very nice and she is extremely caring to everyone, not just someone she's in a situationship with or in a relationship with. She's really awesome to her friends too. She's just a really cool person. She's very sweet. So what ended up going wrong? She was one of my first situation ships. I think part of it was that she started to have feelings for me and we had so we had gone over. She had said she was wanting more of a relationship. I told her I wasn't able to provide that, so I'm like, we could still be friends. I'm totally here for that, and she had said She's like, oh, well, I'm you know, I'm fine with it. We can we can totally be beneficial friends. And I should have trusted my gut instinct there, but I didn't because I was trying to work on trust too. It's really really difficult to go from gut feeling to trust. Well, I think it's time for us to hear what she said about you. Then, Yeah, I love the attention she gave me when like we message, we takes her call like she didn't take long to reply back. She has a lot of style. I mean, she drizzes beautiful, she high heels, drizzes. She just gets attention like a very beautiful lady, like it's somebody that you want to walk to a place with. And her personality she's always laughing, always smiling, pays attention when you talk. When she's very engaging, very time flies with her. The concern is she like that with everybody. Did you ever have a conversation about exclusivity or anything like that. I never really confronted her or asked her if she was dating other people while we were going out on dates, just as she never really asked me if I was. Were you thinking about Chris more long term? My perception, my scare was she might not be ready for a relationship, because like I knew I was ready to be with somebody, or I thought I was. I was like, Okay, I either run and don't continue with this, or I, you know, try to get to know her a little more or maybe change her perception or you know, house It sort of feels like you guys were out of sync. I think there was a lot of like miscommunication on both of our ants on the intentions of what we really wanted at the time. I mean, I know that when we started dating, I stopped dating on our people at the time. Most of the time was out drinking. I invited her to almost everything I did, which was a lot. She will stay at my place most of the time, so did you meet any of Chris's friends. I never got to meet her friends. I don't I never got to meet any of her friends. So it was always with my friends, to my places, to my invite. So it doesn't sound like this was headed towards something lasting. I was honestly in a bad place, so I got super drunk and I don't know what switch flipped in my head, but I called her. I told her basically that she was holding around or houring around or whatever, and you know that I couldn't do this anymore, and I just get really insecure, and from there like I just goes to her like we stopped talking. So after all of this, do you have any advice for Chris? I think that is important to your dating. Would intentions to you know, being in a relationship where you're just casually dating the other thing will also suggest this learned to let people take care of her. She was too strong, too independent. Sorry processing a little bit, ah, I mean, this has got to be so surprising to hear some of this from some you know the other side. So I saw you make quite the facial expression. Wed it was everything was at her place and bore on her terms. Let us know what you're thinking there. So one thing was she said that I stayed over at her place a lot, which I had only stayed at her place I think two or three times, and it was because we had gone back to her place and it was late, so I'd spent the night but went home the next morning. So I thought it was interesting that she interpreted that as staying over a whole lot. I mean, yeah, it was. She invited me to a lot of things, and I mean I didn't really go out with a lot of my friends during that time, which is why I didn't really invite her to hang out with my friends. What were your intentions with Natalia? I mean our intentions were friends with benefits. And I thought that I thought that I had made that super clear. I mean, even now she admitted that she knows that we weren't in a relationship because I had said that. So it was interesting hearing her say that we were in a relationship. It seems like that's a recurring theme, is that you know, the expectation is that this isn't a relationship, but you are spending a ton of time with these people in a short period of time. And I know, like you said, you only were at her house a couple of times, but I could see how she might think that if it's only a month, right, it's a decent amount of time being spent together. I don't know. I guess it's I have to rethink and revisit how others interpretation of a lot is because we only hung out five times, okay, I personally didn't feel like that was like a whole lot in one month. That's interesting because I feel like when we talked to her, her interpretation was definitely that you were spending all this time together. So of course there's your side, her side, and really what happened, and everyone has different interpretations. But I think she felt like, I'm bringing Chris around with all my friends. She's doing all this stuff with me, And it seemed like talking to her that you two were hanging out all the time, and Natalia said that you were hoeing around. How did this comment make you feel in that moment? I mean hurt a lot. While we weren't super close, I felt we were close enough and that I mean, we've we had sex and everything. So to hear her say that I was pouring myself out was really hurtful. And then she ended up leaving, leaving, and I was like, this isn't I didn't think that she would ever do something like this, which I mean did affect my trusting a little bit, but yeah, I know it hurt a whole lot. And clearly this ended abruptly and with a little bit of drama. Yeah, I know, there's a lot to think about here, lots of strong feelings. We're going to delve into that. But let's move on to your next flame, Dbora, your third old flame. We were actually very invested in Debora and you'll see why. I think I know why you met Debora online. Yes, you knew you were looking for something casual, you hung out every once in a while. She had feelings for you. We're starting to see this trend, you know. Let's get to Dborah then, like, what was it that drew you to her? We had a lot of similar interests. She's extremely active and outdoorsy and I enjoy doing that, like hiking and everything. I mean, we had really good conversations. And then why do you think things ended? I know why things had ended, and it was that she had ended up liking me more than she thought she did. And yeah, did you have any feelings for her, Like, I know again you didn't want to be in a real relationship. But was it that you didn't see it with her? I didn't see it with her, and I think there was more miscommunication. But I had said that my biggest role, my one role that I will never break, is I will not be with someone who has cheated in the past, just because of my past. And so she had told me that she had and it was a couple of years prior, and so I guess I thought, you know, with that, I was like, oh, okay, you know the No. I think I don't know if she had understood that and was hopeful that it would change. So No, Like, she was really cool, she's a great person. We had a lot of a lot of fun times. But there was already like I already had it in mind. Beginser's no, and that's not fair for anyone. You took her out of the relationship bucket for yourself. Yeah, so let's hear from Debora. Let's see what she had to say. Going into it. I was looking more to date because that's just probably more of my personality. Ish, I want to be more like with one person. So I guess that's kind of what I saw and like originally that when I first saw her, like even on tender, I was like, oh, she looks more genuine. So if you were wanting to date, did you ever express this to her? There was a point I said I would see a potential or like wanting to date you. I always kind of knew or had a feeling that I liked her more than she liked me, And at that point she said she would be open in the way of an idea to dating. But I think by the time maybe we went out to the club, which we ended up doing a lot, she kind of told me like she sleeps with a lot of friends. And at first I was kind of like, I'm not going to say anything against him. Plus like you can do what you want, you know, I'm not shaming, but it was not uncommon to meet someone and then find out that she's slept with them. Also, at what point did you say, I don't want to do this anymore? There was a time that was kind of I guess the first pitfall and we're hanging out at the club, I guess more that couplely type person there, do you have fun? And it's like okay, whether we both go out and dance as someone. We're kind of like here together and we meet this other couple through some other friends of hers, and it's fine. And I came back to Chris and she was like, Hey, I'm going to go home with them. Oh and that point was like a punch. They got there and she saw it on my face and then she was like, I can ask them if you want to come. I don't think I really wanted to, but that was kind of like the first I guess not warning, I guess warning signed, but the point where from that point on, I think every time I was around Chris, I was always on edge. The point that we were out somewhere together and you were going to leave me, it's like, oh, like I don't even know where, Like friends with benefits lie At that point I told her, explained, and I'm like, I get it, we aren't exclusive, you're dating other people, but like, can you give me a heads up if you're going to do that? You know, like we went together, how did you stop dating or doing whatever it was that you were doing. She was my plus one to my sister's wedding in Chicago. The wedding was Friday night. We flew back Saturday at like ten thirty pm, and then we went to her house. All my stuff is her place. Emmy went to the club and the other couple was there the whole time. Kind of going there, I felt like, from my view, I'm like, I just feel like she doesn't want to be with me here, or like I feel like she wants to go hook up with someone else. And then at the end of the night, she's like, Hey, I'm going home with the couple. Can you let my dog go? Okay? What? Like I started crying as I walked out to me, I'm like, you had to know, and if you were like a friend, I guess you would have noticed, like I liked you more. But then the fact that you also went with that couple when you knew that would hurt me. Not everyone just see sex the same way, So that definitely ended it. Then, do you have any final words for Chris? Maybe if you're gonna have friends with benefits, you might have to have more check ins to make sure there's no feelings and such, because it's different for other people. Yeah. So I was just watching your face and there were so many looks of confusion, let's go odd for you. Chris, I'm trying to remember where to start with this. I'm trying to think. I've try to remember all of it, processing it. We were trying to process this. She said, she tried a DTR with you, and you said you were willing to give it a chance. So what when wrong here? Then? The relationship talk had been the day I was trying to get to the point that I could be in a relationship but I'm still not ready for that. But I don't remember mentioning anything about all that at that point because we had, I mean literally right before that conversation was when we had talked about how I wasn't going to be with someone who was who had cheated the past. I feel like she was extremely hurt by the whole couple situation. She said that I just told her that I was going home with them. It was definitely a big miscommunication about that. It was like I remember she had come up to me and asked if I wanted to go with her back to my place, and that's when I had told her. So after that, I made it more of a conscious effort to not go with that mindset of if we don't have plans afterwards that it's okay. And so that was the one mistake. The wedding thing was the other mistake. So why go with her as her plus one to the wedding if you know this is not someone that you're ever going to be with. We'll be right back after the short break, So why go with her as her plus one to the wedding if you know this is not someone that you're ever going to be with. Well, So I had been invited to be the plus one prior to the whole couple thing, and with that one I wanted to really wear, really fancy dress. That was I'd one dress I really wanted to wear. And I had mentioned that, and she had said that she had her sister's wedding coming up, and she said she was thinking about asking me to go, and so I was like, I was like, you know, I don't know. I asked her where it was and she said it was in Chicago, and my family lives near Chicago, and so I knew i'd also be able to see my dad Annie Deep Dish Pizza, Dish Pizza. But I think that was a big mistake on my part. That's definitely an example of this doesn't mean as much to you as it means to them. And I think that's something we're seeing over and over again, these symbolisms in relationships of being more serious, taking it to the next stage. Like for you, they're just like, oh, it's fun to wear a dress, but for them it means something, which is where we're seeing a disconnect. When you like someone, you start seeing things in a different way and you start seeing the things you want to see, and then when you don't really like someone, you don't see these things. But what is really interesting, because this is we're going to start talking about the themes. Everybody has something really great to say about you. First of all, they think you're beautiful. They think you're kind and thoughtful and caring. Everybody really liked you, they had feelings for you, they thought you were girlfriend material, and everybody wanted to get into a relationship with you. But then we're also hearing you're just not very good as situationships. Maybe you know, like you can get into them, but yeah, they don't end well. The irony is that I feel like situationships are supposed to be low stakes snow drama. The whole idea is that it you know two people don't have feelings, but that definitely doesn't seem like what's happening. And I think you're doing it because you don't want to be hurt. But almost having this low stakes, undefined relationship is causing a lot of ambiguity for other people too, and it's causing her Like whether it's the same level as your past relationships or not, it's still like all the themes here is that these haven't ended super smoothly. Someone gets upset, someone blows up, someone disappears like that I'm assuming isn't really what you want either to continue to build trust that you can have a healthy relationship. Yeah, we're all for taking a break, especially after difficult situations. Absolutely. I think though, the one area that we need to think about is is the situationship the best path forward because it feels like it's not necessarily fully taking that break A lot of times, even up front, you know that this isn't going to be a thing in that case, Like, I think we need to ask ourselves, like, is it better to just let this go and not get into this situation ship than to go into something to have it not work out. Also, they were some of my first kind of situationships and unfortunately I did hurt a lot of people and it wasn't okay. Here's my interpretation is that you have people pleasing tendencies. You really want to please people. You want them to like you, so you almost go out of your way to do nice things for people. That's not a bad thing, but in turn it does send these mixed signals where people start having feelings for you. But what is an interesting observation is that when people start having feelings for you, you run away. Yeah, and those initial actions of people pleasing are now contradicted by you running away. So it's almost an I think it would be a good challenge for you is that next time this happens, when someone's expressing their feelings towards your they want to come towards you, you also walk towards them. And it's not to be inauthentic to you. You. I think it's more of saying I'm sorry to sense you have feelings for me. Let's talk about it, versus let's go to the club, get drunk and see what happens, which we know that it doesn't end well. That is a good point that I have to work on having boundaries for myself, and I mean, also work on the people pleasing tendencies because I know that i've already I mean, I know that that can cause mixed signals. Yeah, I don't want you to undersell yourself too. I almost feel like the situation chips are underselling you. You are the queen of the situation Chips. But is that the title you really want? And I almost feel like sometimes you're going for people that you don't see a future with or you know there's nothing there because you don't want to get hurt. But would it actually be better for you to take it slower with less people? Maybe more defining actually would help with the trust issues. I did realize, like with the trust thing, is that while yeah, the situationships have been you know, a crutch with that, just because I now don't have to worry about the trust issues because in my head I know that it's not exclusive, so it doesn't matter if they do anything, but it's something that it's not helping me any further like it was before, just because it's not helping me learn to trust any more than you know it's been up till this point. So I wanted to talk about Deborah's comment regarding your other friends, she felt like you slept with a lot of them. Do you think that's accurate? Well, Tyke, this exit interview will containue even just a moment, So I wanted to talk about Deborah's comment regarding your other friends out like you slept with a lot of them. Do you think that's accurate? I felt like being clear in the fact that it wasn't exclusive. I thought that was coming off as that they could trust what I was saying. Well, let's dig into that, because in the beginning I asked, do you think you're trustworthy? And you said yes. But speaking to these three old flames, it seemed that you were giving the perception that you weren't trustworthy because there was this perception that you were constantly seeing other people. So I'm going to flip that back to you, Chris, and say, can people trust you in the way that you want to trust them, and can you live that in a more authentic way versus just placing the trust on other people. I think I need to go back into thinking about it all and everything, because I thought that being open about it all it was helpful in that. So think about it in this way, maybe trust isn't about covering your own ass. So if you think about trust as well, I said we weren't exclusive and that we had the situationship, that kind of trust is built on while I'm covering my ass here. But what if trust was built on more vulnerability, and that vulnerability comes from making your inner monologue your outer monologue, saying what is what exactly you're feeling in that moment, the fears, the insecurities. That is what builds true trust because then we get to see the inside of Chris, what is she really thinking. I think for all these women, they felt like they had to read your mind. That's why they interpreted your actions in a totally different way than the way you intended them to be. So what if you were able to just keep communicating every step of the way. That's vulnerability because we already know about the exis creating the trust issues. Okay, how does that manifest into this current relationship? And how can you just keep people updated on what's going on side your head? Yeah? Definitely, And you know, I think for you two, it's like it's so hard when you've been through bad situations, don't want to undermine that in any way. But it's also dangerous to be like looking for red flags all the time, and that doesn't mean that you trust someone one hundred percent on date one. Like trust does have to be earned. But instead of looking for like all the things that they can do to not build your trust, Like, how can you just actively work to build trust together and have that emotional connection. I would like to get to the point of dating I do, you know, would like to get there, and I know I'll get there at some point or another working on trust issues, you know, especially moving forward. I know that this is not helpful in terms of that um, but definitely the being more communicative about different things instead of what just I thought was being communicative. There's definitely more to it than that. You guys have shown me that there's there's more to it than just what I thought needed to be communicated. Right, I do believe that you do want that deep down, and it's fear that really is getting in your way. So how can you lean into friends that aren't even sexual or people that want to invest in Chris and want to be there for Chris. Yeah, yeah, there's definitely I mean, because it's not a lot of it is the worried about hurt myself and the other person I am. UM. A lot of it's for myself, but most of it is I don't like I don't want to hurt someone. It is something that I need to work on looking at myself and a lot of the things I do that it's not just because I have my toxic tendencies. I'm still working on trust to trust that they will still be there and still be able to talk with me through it and be communicative about you know, hey, I didn't like that you did this. It is something that no matter if I said, you know, hey, this hurt. Can we work on this, there wasn't any communication back until it got to an extreme to where there was a fight. It's a collaborative process, right if people enter into your life to be on your team, and you can create a team together. So instead of having them me versus you, am I going to hurt you, You're gonna hurt me? Is how can we make each other better? I guess even if this doesn't turned into a relationship, and I think for you, what we keep hearing is you come off very secure and confident and strong, yet there are these moments of vulnerability and you don't ask for help. So how do people know how to step in for you and show up for you if you don't ask for that? So that maybe another layer to the trust and vulnerability is the courage to ask for help or even just stepping out of your comfort zone and just trying to ask for help. Yeah, what can you learn from what happened the past and pick accordingly and have those difficult conversations up front? And it sounds like you're having some of them, but I think you can go layers deeper further than that. Yeah, there's definitely more in depth conversations that should be had. And I'm through this realizing that. Well, I'm glad we're coming to all these realizations with everything you've heard today. What is the one thing, the one takeaway or one action item from this conversation seeing my actions and trying to remember to think about how they're coming across them, and then having that deeper communication of things versus just surface layer of what this is, having the deeper, more difficult for me conversations as well. Hey, that's growth, right, And then on your next date, what's one thing that you think you'll do differently? Well, first, would we go on a date with someone that I would have intentions to date instead of you know, a situation ship aspect, I'd say that'd be the first love it. There you go, best action item ever. Okay, So Chris, at the beginning, we set out to find out if situation ships were the best choice for you or if they were pushing you further away from what you want. After hearing for your past flames, what do you think? Yes, that makes a little sense. Now that is a good point. Yeah, we really do want you to leave feeling good that you know, you do bring a lot to the table. Yes, you do, and you know the stuff that you're going through. This is stuff that we've seen by talking to thousands of daters also, So I don't want you to feel like you're flawed, that you're not alone at this like this is very common, and we really do believe you can use this information to find that happy, healthy relationship that will feel good for you. Absolutely. I know it's out there. We'll just take time and deeper communication. Yeah, but this whole thing has been very informative and very helpful. For sure, You're on your journey to love. Okay, can we stop having situation shifts because I feel like every time we talk to someone, it's not really what they want. I can tell from talking to her that deep down she does want something more, but it's her past experiences and fear getting it her way. Yeah, that f word fear. Fear is at the root of all of our bad dating behavior. We are doing this as a self protection mechanism, which I totally get. I've been there. I've done things just to protect my heart. I don't want the rejection. I don't want to be disappointed. Yeah, you know, I feel Chris. She definitely there's a lot of hurt that she's still carrying yea from her exes that have cheated on her. And it's really freaky hard when you've been in that situation not to project that on the next person. But what we've learned here is just having these undefined situationships, it doesn't mean that people aren't going to get hurt. Oh my gosh. You can kind of sense the hurt in Chris's voice when she heard all this feedback. I don't think she realized the impact that she had on people's lives. And I think situationships can be very fun in the beginning because you have attention, you have companionship, but you also have to be accountable for that other person and yourself. So I think we turn on the light switch for Chris in that category. Also on the other end of it, I think so many of our listeners can resonate with being on the receiving end of Chris's behavior. So you find yourself in a situationship, you gotta really just clearly articulate what it is you're asking for and don't let actions make your assumptions like, oh, she came with me to my sister's weddings. Well, yeah, this must be serious, we must be in a relationship. Not I was gonna say the same thing. It's just reading into these things that we believe are milestones. The way that we are isn't necessarily what other people are. Chris being like, oh, yeah, I just give gifts to all my friends kids, like it's no big deal. This is reminding me of a really bad situationship I was in and we went to a movie premiere that was put on by his company, and he sat me next to his dad. Now it was totally random that I was sat there, but the whole time I was thinking, oh my gosh, meeting the in laws already, are we Oh my god? He's like, no, this is just a random seating. I think Chris, though, will take this into account. If you really like someone, you want to find any reason that validates that that they like you back. But we have to talk. We can't just make assumptions. I'm really excited to check back in with her and see how things have changed. Yes, oh my gosh, so many learnings. But we're about to sign off here. Please remember to keep checking your feed for next week's Exit interview with a guy who is so shy he keeps letting love slip through his fingers. That's gonna be a good one. Make sure to subscribe to Exit Interview to be the first to listen, and while you're at it, rate and leave us a review. Reviews mean everything for podcasts, so show your support. Let's keep these exit interviews rolling because our participants are learning so much, but we guarantee you all are too. Another ways to keep the discussion going follow us on Instagram at Exit Interview Show as a handle, or on Twitter at x Interview Show. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. This episode was coordinated by Katia Kupelian, Creative produced by Samantha Martin and edited by Jen Jacobs. We are produced by Abigail Steckler at Little Scorpion Studios, with executive producers Uashoe, Julie Kraftchick and Frolick Media. This is an iHeartRadio podcast.