Sophia, Robert and Joy put Clay under the microscope, discuss the evolution of Dan, and debate how long you should wait for someone who’s just not there for you.
Plus, Robert reveals the show’s super power!
First of all, you don't know me.
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Hey Friends, Episode seven oh two, Season seven, Episode two, What are You Willing to Lose? Air date September twenty first, two thousand and nine. You have me and Sophia and Rob.
Hello darlings, Hello friends, Hey friends, you have a redheaded Sophia.
I am hello, Thank you. It's been so fun. I wanted to do it in advance of this movie I'm about to start and make sure I liked it, you know, I didn't want to do it like the week before and be stuck.
And it's really fun. Yeah, it suits you, It's great.
That's what I'm realizing is weird. I'm like, oh, was I always supposed to do this?
Because so many.
People have been like wow, And then I've been running into people that it takes fifteen minutes to be like, why do you look different. Your skin looks nice, and I'm like, maybe because my hair is bright red. I don't know, but people aren't even noticing, and I'm realizing it just looks I don't exactly.
The right red is hard to get right. Yeah, you got to get the right shade.
It's like five minutes too long in the chair and you go from runway to comic con.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred books.
Who wants to read the synopsis?
I'll read it because I would really like to ask, or I guess not ask. I would just like to throw my thoughts in the ring that it was a real travesty to not name this episode. Hopped up on Goofballs. Austin saying that out loud in the beginning of the episode literally made me split water everywhere.
So that's just my first thought.
But since the episode is sadly named what are You Willing to Lose, I'll tell you what it's about. While in the process of recording her new album, Haley battles to protect Red Bedroom Records with the help of Mia, Brook casts the new face of her clothing line, and Clay defends Nathan against a growing scandal. Julian and Brooke decide to move in together while Dan unveils his new bride. Unles Butler directed this who was always so lovely?
And what an episode is this?
The less who is also one of our editors.
Yes, yeah, correct, I remember, look at you? You do remember stuff.
I remember a few things. I didn't remember much of this episode. And before we even get into it, I want to say, last week we talked about you're saying, did I understand why the show worked? Did it make sense? And I said, oh, yeah, I completely get it was as popular as it was and why it's still endures. And I realized watching this episode. One thing that this show does incredibly well is it produces so many memorable quotable moments. Oh yeah, this is this show is perfect fodder for water cooler talk or you know, or like it's like conversational click. But there are so many scenes where there's just a line or a moment where I was like, oh, I can't wait for us to get into this. Oh I can't wait to quote that line.
Yeah.
In addition to a great storytelling, there's just so many hits throughout the way that are fun to share.
And you know, yeah, great signers did hopped upon Goofballs. Make it on your list of one hit wonders for this episode as well.
It is my favorite way to describe addiction is hopped up on Goofballs. If Disney had to make a movie about addiction, the tagline might include she was hopped up on goofballs in the four Know that and also I could totally eat the butt off a scum.
Oh my god, it's so I have that one do. That whole scene was fantastic. Well, let's talk about Alex.
I mean, this is this, uh, this is the introduction of Janna Kramer as Alex Do prey go.
So if you've already got your mouth up and go.
I'm just so excited that she's finally here. Janna is so funny. She is the level of commitment to play someone like Alex who says these things out loud to other people so shamelessly.
Like it just to me.
Speaks to Janna's boldness as an artist. And I also just love her. She is so frickin funny. Her and Lisa together like, I want this movie. I want the Milicent and Alex show. I just like they There were so many good things happening in this episode with those two were my absolute favorite people.
We missed it.
We missed I needed a whole episode or a movie of just Alex and Millie in the car. The plane gets like gets canceled, they have to drive from New York to Tree Hill, the two of them surviving with each other in the car. That's that's what I want to see. I was robbed.
I didn't remember that we initially met her through that movie she was doing. I didn't either through Julian's unreleased movie sot so confused. What in the Jane Austen is happening right now?
What are we doing?
But what a clever device that they circled back to at the end of the movie for that button.
Yes, And I was so excited that I didn't remember that. That's how Brooke got obsessed with Alex, because when the scene hit at the end, like it happened in my house, and I had no idea, and I went, oh, you.
Didn't remember when she name the whole speech about the dress.
I know.
I had a full out loud gas at the end when Brooke and Julian are watching Alex's movie and they leave the room and then her dress speech happens. I was like, Oh my god, that conniving little shit, and I was so happy because to your point, Rob, I was like, God, they really circled back around in such a good way.
I had just seen The Friends a few weeks ago. I watched the Friends episode where it's the one that could have been and Rachel is married to Barry and she's like a she's a Jersey housewife, and she shows up on set and she's a fan of Joey Tribani and Days of Our Lives and he keeps trying to get her to go home with him, and by he gets her to go home with him by quoting all these lines to her from his characters on Days of Our Lives, and she keeps going, is that a line for the show?
Is that aline for the show?
There was something about the way she was reading when she took the robe off and she was standing there in that dress, and I just was like, this is a speech. This is definitely from something. Absolutely I didn't expect it to be in the end of the movie, but I definitely thought she was giving some kind of speech from another role.
I was half expecting her also to do it and then be like sorry, I was being difficult earlier, like you know, I've always been told you have to be kind of a bitch to be famous or like something, and be like, but this is the real me. And then like book walks out of the room and she looks at Millian and she's like, told you I was a good actress, like I was. I was expecting that after the dress speech. I was not expecting her to have ripped it from her own movie. So I got two surprises.
I want to see you walk in there and stare at the TV at the end, like she was just waiting for you, for you to walk back in the room and be like, ah, but yeah, to cut away.
I was so glad that they came back to that because in that scene and close over bros where she gives you the speech, I was underwhelmed. I wrote in my notes that really that was enough for the turnaround for Brooke because it just didn't it didn't feel it felt out of place. It just didn't feel organg. I didn't quite buy it, So I'm sort of going that was enough. So it was great that at the end of it you realized, oh, that's why it was sort of out of place, and disingenuous Cuz, yeah, yeah, it was. It was a nice way to sort of cap.
That exactly because you're watching it, going, why is this turning things around for Brooks so fast? And I have a note in my stuff of going like I wonder if I had one of those moments where I said, this doesn't feel like enough and they were like, tough shit, it's in the script, shoot the scene, Like, yeah, I wondered to myself, is this one of those times where we just had to commit even though it felt off so for for us to get to the end of the episode and collectively the three of us, but I would imagine also our friends at home, y'all can tell us, you know, online to get to the end and go that's why I didn't buy it, and it's it's yeah, feels nice. You feel like you've discovered something as an audience member. You know that you're in on a seat secret and you are because now the audience knows that Alex is a faker and brook still doesn't that whole though.
You and Jana, but god, you and Lisa when you said we should speak to her.
In Spanish and she goes out blah blah, blah serves.
Yeah, I would like lots of beer, and she's like, yes, lots of beer.
Good.
Well, I did sort of bump on was that enough? And sort of to your point, So if you're saying I wonder if it was one of those days on set where you were like, really, is that enough? The thing that that why it works though, is that obviously Brooke has such a big heart, and Alex didn't come in and just say I made a mistake. She she over shared in a big, vulnerable way, and it kind of painted you into a corner of at least in that moment, having to go okay, yeah, okay, okay, like it didn't feel like it was the right time, Like she didn't just give you a lazy excuse and you could have gone, hey, this isn't working.
You know, somebody's breaking down in tears in front of you, what are you gonna do?
Yeah, and talking about how they have nothing left because of their struggles with addiction, and you're just.
Like, it's horrible. I'm so sorry. It is a disease.
It's not a choice, you know, Like I love the I love that to your point, like she hits Brooke it like she tugs every single one of those hard strings, and it's just like please, It's like, what am I gonna do?
Going back to the start of the episode, did anyone else feel like the beach scene with Clay and Nathan look like a failed screen test for Twilight. Yes, it was two obscenely pale dudes running shirtless down the beach.
It was great. That was so juicy.
What made me laugh about it is that clearly you guys were like really running in a wide shot and then it cut to a close up of like the last two steps when you get to the end of a sprint and you feel like you're moving so fast your legs are going to trip you. But like the jump cut didn't work like in the wide you were just getting going and then suddenly you were at the end, which is what made it feel sort of twilighty, like.
You guys were the same guy down the beach right there.
There were a few moments in this episode of highly questionable blocking in my opinion, and this was the start of it, because never in my life have I been running with a buddy and just thought, after we're really gassed out, I want to stop and ask you a question and then immediately start sprinting. It was yeah, yeah, it was funny.
That's the kind of stuff that would drive me crazy as an actor, and what you're on set and things just have to keep moving, and somebody set up the camera, especially on a beach day, because they'll have set up the cameras before. They don't bring you down to rehearse. They're like, we got to keep everything moving. They'll just set it all up, and then you walk on set and they tell you where you're supposed to go, and you're like, why would I do that?
That's dumb.
This is literally my job as an actor is to tell you where I would go, what I would do, what my character would be feeling, or how they would be moving. So to he somebody else jump in and say, listen, we need to eliminate your job and just have you be a body that talks for a few minutes. You're like, great, okay, just my day.
It was fine because what that should have looked like was we stop and there is twenty five seconds of us catching our breath. Huh. And then I asked the question, yeah, but like to Sofa's point, it was like we're sprinting full speed for fifty yards and that's like, okay, so this might not be so good. Huh, what are you Jason Bourne.
No, it's really weird. It was fun to watch though, and I will.
Say like, this is one of those moments where I think, after we did this job for so long, I'm like, I get exactly what you're saying, joy, because I have been like, well, then what did I come to work for today? And then also there's the other side where I get the director being like, well, what I don't want is to have these two guys doing like a walk and talk down the beach, and Clay is giving Nathan such good advice. He's like, listen, you know, I get that you're scared. I get that it's a contract year. What we're gonna do is keep you in shape, keep you fucking fast, keep you ready for work, and nobody's going to be able to come at you. And so I absolutely get how the director like made the choice of ooh, this will be a nice way to get in and to get out, and it'll have movement and it'll look different than things look and all the other stuff. And I was like, hold on, these boys are running down a beach and no one is on it, and then when you turn around, there's a thousand people aunt Quinn's out for a walk into bikini.
There's a snack stand.
There's like kids burying grown ups, like what are we talking about?
We're not in the same place at all.
And that that was like crazier to me. I was like, then, why didn't you guys have them end their sprint, huff and puff to the snackstand to get a water. And then I have a serious conversation and get interrupted by someone also going to the snackstand.
I was like, this is not.
Yeah, it made me feel a little crazy, but you guys really did You did it in.
A very believable way.
And I have to say, like, through the whole episode, and I remember this at the time, and I know it's because the material in his storyline is great, but there was a very cool thing that happened when Clay showed up in Nathan's world. And I really feel like we got to see a side of James as an actor that we didn't get before. We've had so much of this amazing Nathan and Haley love story, you know, and yes, pursuing your dreams, but like you've done so much of it as a couple, and it's why Nealey is iconic to us. But for me watching this, I'm like, oh my god, I remember days on set watching you guys work and being like, this dynamic is so cool, And now that I'm seeing it again, I remember how it felt then, and I'm really enjoying it as an audience member.
Now.
It's like a whole different window into one of our favorite characters, and it lets you show up on that level of a favorite character from day one, and you're just so likable as Clay, and I trust your advice and I trust your intentions, and I love the way you confront Renee and the whole thing. I just was like, God, their dynamic is so good.
Yeah, you show up already in charge, which is important.
Oh thanks, Yeah. It was so fun getting there. Was very little time wasted in terms of us jumping into the thick of it. You know, it was essentially seven oh one and then even seven oh one though ends with oh no, yeah, So it was very short runway before we kind of things took off and it got heavy that I don't want to get ahead of us. But there's that scene in the restaurant though with Renee. Yeah, I it made me laugh so much that. I love that James comes in so hot and an extremely crowded restaurant. Yeah, he doesn't even wait till he gets the table. He's probably twenty feet away, and he's like, why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? And of course Claire runs over and it ushers him out of the car. It wouldn't they get in the car. Claiy goes, why are you doing you maniac? And he goes, I just wanted to talk to her. Yeah, you know, I'm like, did you shouted across a crowded restaurant, you psychopath? What she did was the opposite of.
The absolute opposite. And by the way, like as soon as he walked in, I was like.
Who what?
Why are there a hundred phones in the air? And then I realized watching the the Dan and Rachel's stuff, I was like, oh, that's a v one iPhone right. We were in the moment filming this where like iPhones were still pretty new. Everyone didn't just have their phones out filming everything all the time. They have pictures of their food yet, and it created like a like a separate ness.
And I love that he and you were like, everyone's got their camera phones out. I'm like, oh, we haven't said camera phone in so long. And that was absolutely in the script back then.
I was really surprised when Nathan stormed in after this woman. Yes, I really thought he's smart enough to not do that, but.
Yeah, come on, come on man.
Also, I'm sorry, but like a sonogram photo in a in an envelope is not.
Yeah, I'm like, that's not a paternity test what we're doing.
But I do.
I will say I understand the scare of it and like the shrimp drop because the timeline and what I loved is actually what sold it so well for me. First of all, I think the gal who plays Renee is great.
She's great, Kate French is her name, Kate, That's right.
She's really in it. She's likable, and yet somehow, because of the way she's playing it, I don't trust her, but I don't hate her. You know, Like she she toes the line really well.
There's this simple it's just kind of sympathetic, uh huh.
And the way she looks at you, it's it's the way she delivers how wild that party got, and then the panic on your face because you know it was bad, and you know you black, You were probably a little blackout, and so was he. And so it's actually for me the conversation that that Clay and Nathan have about that night.
That sells it for me.
That you're like, this is this is this is three months And I was like, oh, they're they're making the fact that it's only a sonogram photo feel like such a bigger deal to me because they both are saying without saying, yeah, I don't actually really remember what happened that night, and that's where the fear comes in. And I was like, God, everybody's just doing such a good job with this, because those are the scenes that could fall flat on the page. It's like, well, there's this, and there's this, and then look at this and look surprised, and you guys really made like a a yummy meal out of it.
Yeah, if she hadn't so successfully sowed the seed of doubt, none of that works, because if that doesn't exist, it doesn't matter if there's a sonogram. Nathan would just be like, I know what I did. But when you do that, then all of a sudden, it creates that shadow of a doubt. But I want to rewind for a second. As someone who, like I said, I remember so little of the show. How big of a shock was it when Dan's wife is revealed to be Rachel.
The biggest Okay, it is the biggest shock. And here's what's crazy.
I I did.
Not remember that this was how it happened. I didn't know it happened in seven oh two. I didn't know it happened on his TV show in like a very Tony Robbins Doctor Phil kind of way.
I was like, oh my god, Oh my god.
The only reason I even remember Dan has a talk show is because of things that come later with other characters.
I don't want a spoiler for the New Friends here.
I remember a scene that happens, and this is not a spoiler. It gives nothing away. Where Dan and Rachel get back to Tree Hill and there's like this whole scene at the airport and it's very chic and bougie. That's the iconic Rachel reveals scene that I remember with Dan. So when she walked out on the show this week, I was like, wait, we already know this, like it was so I was so surprised, and yeah, nobody could believe it. When it happened.
Then, Yeah, I remembered it, and I was waiting for it and was very excited to see it come to life again because I haven't seen it since.
I think I remember it because I might have been there that day on the set. I don't know why.
I just was whatever stopped by, but I do remembered it. I do remember it, and it was very satisfying. It's just so juicy and yummy and scandalous, and there there was something about what did you just say? Uh oh yeah, but the fans rob to answer your question. The fans went crazy when this happened. The message boards lit up. It was a really really big deal. Yeah, super super unexpected.
And because the whole lead up is him saying things that could potentially.
Be deb Yeah, you're like, oh my god, did they actually work it out?
They got they got back together. Yea, So it's a big deal.
Yeah, because he talks about her struggles with like alcohol and drugs, deb promiscuous, well deubdated skills and Dan you know, tease her about it relentlessly, like all these things that he's saying, and you're going.
Is dep Scott about to like walk out.
Like looking like a whole snack on this stage.
And then it's Rachel and what I love. It's so funny.
Now, like Denil is such a power producer. She is so smart about the way she works and the shows that her and her husband make and everything that they do together, and it was so funny to see the foreshadowing of that. But inside the Rachel character, like this woman who's having such a good time being married to this rich guy and like giving him all the instructions and she's put his whole life back together and you know, she's creating the buzz online and.
All the things.
And I was like, oh my god, this is such a trip because it's like it's like I'm seeing the sinister twin sister.
Of my friend. But now, that's what I.
Thought was so interesting about watching Dan and Rachel was that he consistently, even throughout the end of the episode, going on his own to sit down next to his new homeless friend and you know, have a beer without cameras around, without his his wife and the entourage or whatever. He's consistent in his appearance to be at least attempting to redeem his life, and Rachel is clearly running the show she's running everything, which is since when does Dan the Mastermind decide to just turn over everything to somebody else to run it? It's so interesting, most interesting thing of the whole season, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Well, and what I love too is again I feel like there was a little foreshadowing even us like going down the rabbit hole of what a big concept forgiveness is last week? Yeah about Dan, Like Dan's vibe in this episode, like he feels like a full cult leader, like do you think like this charming man is like I have the way and come with me and redemption is possible for you. And I was like, oh my god, did we like sort of know how? Again down the rabbit hole this storyline was going to go like were we like having some sort of I don't want to say premonition, but you know what I mean, like sense of foreboding.
It's so.
It is so big and and for me that that sort of mentality of like this man who wants to be a leader and have these followers on TV.
Like even Dan's dialogue Toes the.
Line right He's like, well, I don't know about God, but like you can read this book about me, Like if there's all this stuff that I'm like, wait, this is so funny and actually so weirdly familiar that it leads to a bit of unsettling because you go, oh, is he different or or is he really leaning into this thing and letting her take the reins so he can have power.
I don't know it.
It spun me out a little bit in like a good fun mystery way.
Well, the I thought the scene after the show is wrapped and they've called cut was so great because first it introduced the dynamic of she. He is so soft and sensitive and loving and she is one hundred percent business and calculated. Yeah. But the other interesting to your point, so is that his his whole tone and his cadence and his delivery of all of his stuff when he's on camera that is very cult leaderish. He kind of carries over into this moment with Rachel. He's still talking at that same and so it would be different if he sort of dropped back into normal Dan Scott, because then you know, that's what you would expect it's a show. But because he stays in that pocket, it kind of makes you question whether, Okay, is this is this the new version of him?
Yeah?
Because he's being loving, but it's that it's that same sort of like, oh, this still has that weird feel to it.
Yeah, because there's there's still a dynamic about appearance at play, but now it's between the two of them, and it does make you rewind, like we were talking about last week to you know, he is he's opening what we now know in this episode to be his talk show last week, and he's talking about how he was supposed to be dead by now and it's given him this whole new lease on life and it made him see everything differently, and you're like, is it true or is it marketing?
Oh, it's all good and juicy. I think he really believes it.
I think Paul certainly commits that Dan believes it as a performer, and I'm just so curious to see where it goes because again I don't really remember.
Yeah, I think he's genuinely trying to work his way out of his own personal health. But the problem is that's his whole life has just been deluding him, one delusion after another, one self deception after another to try and make himself feel better about all the things he's done, which yeah, is the mark of a cult leader and someone who's trying to be in charge of running a bunch of people because he feels like I've found the answers, and even in his delusion, I've got the answers.
I know how to fix this. I know how to fix you, if only I can fix all these other people. It's still the same thing.
It's still self focus, right Like in his other life, right his other before he didn't die, he was trying to just he was like consuming, eat, eat, like eat all the things that he wants, And now he's trying to do the exact same thing, fill himself up by sucking the life out of other people, by trying to make them like, if I can make your life better, then that gives my life value.
It's so wild.
Yeah, even the scene with when he goes outside and he sees that there's the gentleman experiencing homelessness and he walks over to him. It was funny because I laughed, going, this is a real mixed bag because on one hand, he's taking a moment and he's acknowledging this person as a human being and he's asking him. On the other hand, he offers his autographed book and not a sandwich. He assumes the guy's going to sell the book for booze, oh god, and then and then and then it's a joy's point. It's not the Bible, but here's me, So it's sort of It was like they had the trappings of a sweet moment with completely botched delivery.
Yeah, but it works for me.
I love it as much as it made me cringe to watch it because it helps this dynamic of is Dan different or is Dan exactly the same? I don't know, and I can't wait to find out, Like it builds the tension for me as a viewer. You know, do I still love to hate this guy? Or am I going to wind up loving this guy?
Like I don't? I don't.
That's the insidiousness about people who are so self delusional too though they think that they've got they've figured it out. And often people in that situation, like a cult leader, they will take something that looks it looks true, like it looks like everything else that you've seen that's true, and you're like, yeah, I resonate with that. There's one little thing that's off, Like you're handing me your book that's signed. You're handing me this autographed book instead of a sandwich, as you say, but there's so much about it that feels good or feels familiar. You're like, oh, I guess maybe maybe it's the same thing. Sure, And it's hard to notice those things.
Yeah, Yeah, You're like, maybe he's using cringey terms because he's like kind of a boomer and doesn't know.
But maybe his intentions are good.
And it kind of makes it that much more believable though, because he isn't a new person. He's still Dan Scott, and even if this is all in earnest, he wouldn't suddenly know, he wouldn't have this new shorthand with how to communicate with people in a brand new way. So it is very very believable. Yeah, but it is funny that he he's like, hey, tell me about yourself and then immediately is like, enough of you. I'm sure you want to drink booze read my book that I'm going to sign here. I believe me signing my name is going to make it more valid. It was just like it was so weird, you know what.
It really reminded me in the moment, I just wrote the one word down, but now it's like bringing back so many memories of watching Did you guys watch the docu series on Nexiam, Yes, Oh my god, it's so incredible and like all of these women wound up in this horrific situation based on like the initial idea was, We're going to sort a women's empowerment group for you ladies. Yeah, and it's so dark and like watching all these old videos of that guy Keith Ranieri, I was like, we there's something really again. I think smart on the part of the writers because I feel like they looked to examples of people like that for this version of Dan where you're like, is he funny fix people kind of on TV Doctor Phil or is he like scary cult guy?
And I don't know.
And in the beginning of a seventh season of a TV show, when someone like Dan Scott is such an iconic character and you feel like you know everything about him and his inner workings, to have him feel brand new and newly dangerous, Like, honestly, it's such a hats off for me to the writers because I'm like, you guys managed to thread and needle here, and like, to be clear, we don't always do that so well on our show.
Like sometimes we watch episodes and.
We're like, wow, that scene was really embarrassing. This arc for me was terrible for three episodes because they just needed me to get from point A to point B and they had nothing in between. So I'm like a dancing puppet, like we we can absolutely make fun of ourselves in the writing.
That wasn't good. But when it's this good, I'm like, oil guys.
Okay, Coller, yeah, Dollar, I'm very impited.
Tap in before. That's the thing, man, all these cult leaders, it's like they work.
Out of the There's been so many like for decades, but that's how they get people.
I mean, I've been working on my you know, six months. Dinner.
This is also the whole thing about sucking. That's why I call it dinner for vampires, because you're like sucking the life out of people around you. And that's what these guys do. Like the Keith ranary. You got to watch this documentary Robins.
We'll talk about it's so good.
That gets you because it's like a oh yeah, women's empowerment or like let's start a Bible study or let's start a you know whatever. Come come see a talk, like a Ted talk kind of thing, and there's so much of it that seems reasonable. It's just it's like it's such a slow burn.
It's like a copy of a Ted talk but it's a lit something's.
A little off and you don't know what, And like that's what I think is so interesting, is even in them choosing to use this talk show format for Dan Scott, Like we've all gotten great things out of those sorts of shows, and particularly in that era. Like when I was a little kid, I used to literally bargain with my mom that if I was getting straight a's, would you please pick me up at two forty five from school even though the bell doesn't ring till three, because if you pick me up at two forty five, I can be on my butt in the den to watch Oprah and she starts at three. And my mom was like, you're nine, I'm not bargaining with you over your education, and why do you want to come home and watch Oprah so bad?
Like I feel so shaped by that show. And so there really is.
Something I think about leaning into that space where you're like, yeah, this feels familiar but a little off.
Yeah, And where are the blind spots where people are like willing to make concessions and they're all, yeah, because it's filling a hole in some way, and.
He's tapped in. Dan Scott's figured it out well.
And by the way, it's a exactly what works with Alex and Brooke.
Yeah, Brooke doesn't know yet.
That that speech is familiar and a little off because it's actually a dialogue from a movie. But like we all picked up on it and we were like, wait, it's like a good apology, but also it feels weird. It's a truism that like is mirrored in the episode over and over again, and I love it. Like I even feel it in the Stuff with You Joy between Haley and Quinn when you're like, but what happened and she's like, it just changed. It just changed because you know there's more to this story.
Yeah, that was such a lame answer that she gave me.
Yeah, but you can tell from her performance that like there's something under there. Yeah, and it makes you go, I think I'm supposed to know more.
Yeah, but you're not really like that it, so we'll move on. But yeah, yeah, that was not a satisfactory answer. I literally have that in my notes Marriage Falling Apart, Open Mic Night's story is lame.
Oh my god.
Wait, I was gonna be like, Okay, so you hated that he just changed? Answer did getting to the point where he didn't want to like live the life they'd lived together together anymore?
Like did that help you? And you're like, lame.
I understand, of course, I understand the concept of someone changing and kind of becoming a totally different part. You're like, this isn't who I married, this is not what I expected. And there's varying degrees of That's. Hey, there's varying degrees of that where some are acceptable and move forward together a bowl, and there are others that are not.
And I understand all that. That's it's complicated.
But he's not the same person anymore. He just changed. I didn't change. He changed. I went to an open mic night and I didn't want him to be there with me.
I was like, no, tell me what happened.
Yeah, But maybe maybe Haley gets that out of her later, because it's just too it's too vague to just say someone changed. And I didn't know if the writers were being lazy or if it was like we had, they had six drafts of it and they had to make a decision on one and nobody could decide and somebody wasn't available over a weekend, and who knows, the line just got written as it was. I don't know, but it was unsatisfactory to me.
It almost feels like they knew they wanted there to be something, but they hadn't figured out what the something was, so they were just smooting to a mystery something.
Yeah.
Maybe maybe Yeah, because it leaves it, it cracks the door wide open. I mean, it can't be more vague than I did. Like her line where I think you say to her joy, you say, people have the right to change, and she says, yeah, but people also have the right to stay the same.
Yeah, that was my favorite too, which.
I love that. I love that line, but it is it's it's so wildly vague that it kind of does it paints them into no corners now. Yeah, so it kind of bought them time to see like how your guys's chemistry was going to be and how everything went to sort of maybe they can make it better in form decision three episodes down the line.
Yeah, maybe that's it. I hope we do find out more. I do too.
I do too, but I will say I I did appreciate that that was the nugget for me, because yes, of course, you imagine, like when you set out to say, I want to try to be with this person, you know, forever, like all these dream scenarios we've talked about for our future, like I want to work to make those true, and sometimes they're just not sometimes like the words can't be translated into action, and how do you know when to call it? And how do you know when to choose yourself? And what I got, you know, from Chantell's performance, which I thought was so it was beautiful to watch, even though I think the writers did a disservice with this really ambiguous scene they gave the two of you, because you're both great actors, and like you could have told us story instead of you know, done the weird alluding to something thing.
But I could feel.
The like pain of we made these plans together, we committed to a life together, and he doesn't.
Want it anymore. Yeah, And.
How hard it can be to say, like I'm so miserable I realize I don't miss someone. Yeah, Like I think we've all felt that in our own way, you know, offscreen, even on like early in our show Brooks says it to Lucas, She's like, you never missed me, and I stopped missing you. And I think there's something so true about when someone's not willing to make an effort for you. How long are you supposed to wait?
Is it a year? Is it four years? Is it ten years?
How long do you wait for them to care enough to care about you? And it it? Even though it was ambiguous. I almost wonder if it makes it feel relatable for everyone because you're like, oh, I don't know what she's talking about, but I know what she's talking about. I'd be really curious for audience feedback on that.
M It makes it that much more accessible the broader you keep it.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
But also, you know, though, it's kind of a sneaky tool because it invites speculation and back then when the messageboards were going crazy and fan theories were going crazy, Yeah, that's pretty juicy bait to put out there to then let the fans run with and theorize before you answer it in three episodes.
If indeed they answer it, I hope they answer it.
Yes, If they don't, I think people are smart and telling someone your own story that is in the same vein is somehow similar to their story is valuable, Like people could hear some sort of specific ideas and go like, okay, well, in my own circumstance, it wasn't exactly that, but I still feel all those same things, which I think sometimes can be more valuable than just a broad statement, because then it's like, well, but how like, I don't do you actually understand how I feel? But all of this is moot if they don't actually answer the question.
I think they will. I know. David comes in because it was Alison who plays Miss Lauren's husband in real life. Yeah, I was so happy to have him. It was so fun when Scott got cast.
Yeah, how wonderful is Gregory Harrison Julian's dead Paul?
Oh yeah, I love that man.
Another funny moment. So I had just done a series with Gregory for two years and loved him. I had completely forgotten he was on the show until I start watching these and he's so good and their stuff is so wonderful. The thing I laughed at well first before that scene was the way Brooke is suggesting, the way she's commenting on the positioning in the location of the poster as a guy with no fashion sense or an eye for decor, and I have a wife who has a wonderful eye for decor. I felt that conversation on a very deep, relatable level. But the one thing about the scene with Julian and Paul was that awkward blocking alert where Julian is standing right next to the front door and Paul sort of standing in the middle, and he goes, Dad, I think you should leave, and rather than opening the door for him, he takes five false steps for five steps away from it and kind of stops and waits so that they can have that shot of Paul talking over his shoulder. And I just went, buddy, you had him standing next to the door. Yeah, no adult would go I think you should leave. I'm going to walk to the other sideway. You know. It was just, yeah, I felt like I felt I felt as an actor, going, oh, this is one of those moments where you're.
Like, please don't make me do this.
Yeah, can we not? Can we skip that? Yeah?
They were trying to make lunch. They were just like, come on, let's They were like, now.
You walk in and then it's going to be your close up.
That poster was so random to me.
I understand what they were high to do, but it hung so high, so high, I appreciated that they length leaned into the awkwardness of it. Yeah, because it did look really strange, just random generic leaf pattern wallpaper with a thin red line poster on it, like it was he not decorating the rest of the house.
But fine, I get it. It just felt a little clunky.
Yeah, I will say I really again, Like, don't get me wrong, I love the love stories on our show.
You know, that's what we're here for.
Like, we wouldn't do all that, we wouldn't have done any of the dumb shit all of us have done in our lives if we weren't here for the love part. But I love seeing these relationships between Nathan and Clay, between Julian and Paul. And I was so taken by Austin's performances because when you think they're going to have this conversation where he's like, I'm sorry, I hung a poster in the middle of your living room and he tells this story about this day with his dad, it's so I can see all the emotion right under his eyes, right beneath his chest, like it's so alive for him and what I wanted to like high five him through the TV when we were watching the terrible way they made them block that scene because he used awkward blocking to give himself a moment to turn. And I'm telling you, guys, like when I saw him turn away from camera and turn back to Gregory, I was like, oh my god, he looks like a five year old boy, Like he looks like a little boy trying to talk to his dad. And it for these new characters in the same way I feel with Nathan and Clay. I feel like I got all their history in two scenes with Julian and Brook and then Julian and Paul.
I was like, oh, I have all of it.
I understand Paul as deeply as I understand Victoria, and I loved feeling like those men showed up for this like intimacy and this and no one was afraid to be revealing. And even Gregory, he's such a beautiful actor. When he's apologizing and he admits he doesn't remember the day, I was like.
Oh my god, I want to sob. I really loved it.
That your speech to him was such a such a great portrayal of just an act of love, of caring for someone and being someone's protector. You know, it was it was such a nice moment. And then when he circles back with with Julian, you know, my note was, Oh, parents in real life could have such profound and quick adjustments like it was. It was such a wonderfully I'm sure every therapist would love that that was the case because they were so much more successful. But it was. It was so quick and so meaningful, which made for a great payoff. It was like, oh, if only, if only, this is sort of the way it went most of the time.
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking that too watching it. How incredibly I mean, even conversations with my dad, who I'm close with, talking about I'm sorry that I did this, or I'm sorry that I didn't show up in this way.
I'm sorry.
I mean, it's so uncomfortable and we're both like trying not to cry. We're like, we're cool, it's fine, it's fine.
It's fine.
Yeah, but you know that stuff is really hard to talk about, you, I mean, for me and my parents. I don't know, maybe yeah, maybe it's not for everybody, but I wanted to see more emotion At the beginning, I was like, how is he just so easily saying these lines like I'm sorry that I paid more attention to fictional characters than I did to you. And I was like, ma'am, that doesn't that's not hard to say. Gosh. But then when he looks at the poster and he realizes he doesn't remember the day, it went from this sort of I'm going to be an adult and I'm going to be diplomatic and I'm an executive and I can apologize when I'm wrong, and I'm just going to say I'm sorry to my son, to oh, I've actually been a pretty terrible father in this way. Yeah, And it's like it didn't hit him until he really looked at the poster and realized that the most meaningful day to my son I literally do not remember. Then you saw it, that the vulnerability in his whole face, it was great. I thought it was really beautifully done.
That line. I think the acknowledgment that he doesn't remember the day is where he earns that whole speech. Yeah, because that's because he didn't need to say that. He could have said nothing, and Julian probably would have hoped slash believed that his dad remembered it the same way that he did, but being vulnerable and sort of exposing the fact that he doesn't even remember it. It's like, Okay, you're You're not worried about how you're going to look right now or how I'm going to feel about you saying that you're just You're just You're giving me the dignity of being honest with me.
The dignity of it.
Yeah, beautiful, And there was something too. I loved the way the scenes mirrored. I loved being able to defend him as Brooke. I loved being able to step up and say, you know what, here's the issue, Like that is a thing I will do for the people I love in my own life forever. I think the way you phrased it, Rob makes me want to sob in the best way.
Like the act of love of it.
And for her to say there was only one day and that's the problem. It should be the inverse. The one day you made him feel terrible should be the rare day. And then when I think it leads into that thing with Gregory and the way he plays it for him to go, yeah, I don't remember that one day and it's like, oh God, everybody in the room, everybody in this house knows it's it's bad. But yeah, the chance maybe to have it changed. Maybe the way that hit him Paul like, wait a second, this this woman is telling me this thing, and yeah, I don't know the one day it was there, only one day. I wonder how long he ruminated on that.
You know, it's Oh, I just thought it was really great. I loved it all. Maybe feel very emotional.
And kind of like Joy was saying, it's there is almost a weird amount of polish to his to this speech he gives for someone who, if has spent his whole life being the opposite of it, you would think it would have been a lot more clumsy and clunky and in our so the fact that it is kind of polished and well spoken. But then he throws this in, like I said, I think that's what sort of sells the whole thing and grounds it and you go, oh, okay, yeah, I buy all of it. Totally changing a subject here, but speaking of great intros from last episode, Jana her first proper scene in this show, when she meets Millie at the airport. She it's another one of those scenes. It's dynamic, it's funny.
It's early aughts fashion.
It's oh, I don't mean the Jane Austen, I mean the the early aughts.
It's like early two thousands, late nineties that fashion. Everything she was wearing was so eppecific. It's so brittany Christina, like everything from those magazines back then.
Yeah. Yeah, with the exception of her dropping a hard R word, it was pretty polished and perfect.
Yeah.
I didn't love that, But interestingly it it leads to the disgust even more. You're like, you're a mere monster. You're a monster. And you can see it on Millie's face. She's like, wait, who is this person? Oh no, and everything from like the horrible thing she has to say about people to you know, oh, I just made that up. Let's go to a Mickey Dez, like to your favorite line, I could eat the butt off of skunk, Like, yeah, digging through the limo, Janna even changed the cadence of her voice.
Yeah, Like walking through the airport, she's.
Like, oh, thank you, Oh my gosh, thank you.
No, you're brave.
And then she gets in and she's like ew gross, Now hungry, when where's my alcohol?
Like it and you're just aghast. That was my word.
I am a gast, a gust and like, how fun to feel that way watching someone perform.
And she plays Alex with such earnestness in the sense of you see it in the clothes over bro scene, which in comedy is so great because the more you can commit, the better it's going to be. But that wonderful exchange of that's what she said, and then her sincerely not getting it but then wanting to be in on the joke and then using it incorrectly was good, so much fun. You know, they say there's no vanity in comedy, and that was a perfect example of just she was willing to just go for it and look like a complete ass, and it made the joke land so well.
Yeah, it was perfect.
It was.
And then not only does she use it wrong, but when she sets me up for a good one and I use it and she's like, who oh, my friend, yeah she said that, and the scene is I was like, this is so it's just so good.
I enjoyed watching you enjoy that, like the choice to make Brooke not just totally appalled, but actually so beyond you were incredulous. It could just could not believe it, and then you really started to enjoy it.
It was great. I really I had so much fun with it.
And it's funny because watching Alex and Millie together, I was like, well, I want this whole movie. I want this buddy comedy. And then that scene with the three of us I wrote down. I was like, oh, I want us to remake nine to five. Oh yeah, it would be so funny.
Uh. The the one thing about that scene that I had I had to laugh at and just shake my head was when she goes says something to the effect of oh, you know, and because I have a great butt, and they actually do a gratuitous close up shot of her butt in underwear, and it was that reminder of.
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I know what show this is.
I know it showed. Okay, we still got that's still happening, all right.
I mean, by the way, Janna got it, Chantell got it.
On the beach, India gets it soon, India gets it all the time. There was there was a shot on the beach leading up to one of those snackstand scenes, or maybe the one where skills in Miss Lauren get buried.
That's just two girls walking by. It's just their butts. It's hip bones down, yeah, just butts, And I.
Was like, wow, they really was this like a U Was this an email sent to camera people from our boss like more butts?
I don't know what's.
Happening because the guys that were running our camera department were not no look, I mean no, these guys were us men. They were wonderful, lovely, wonderful, respectful men. So there had to be some kind of company wide memo that went out that was like, we need more TNA on this show.
Boy.
Speaking of Chantell on that beach, the scene that moment where she walks up to Clay and Nathan and she says, hey, dumb and dumber, perfect line. I don't know because I don't remember whether on the day this was just a choice I made or if it was me dealing with sunscreen in my eyes and a bright sun on a beach. But watch that moment when she says hey dumb and dummer and Clay it just sort of goes like, hey, I make the most awkward, weird, blinking face. And it was either a genius choice or just a beautiful accident. It's probably it was just a beautiful accident. But you got to watch it because it is the most sincere a guy completely losing his cool and not knowing how to behave.
Yeah well, and wanting to say something funny, and then also knowing he's not supposed to flirt with this girl because his brother in law's standing there. It's like the short circuit of not knowing what to do.
We would be remiss if we didn't at least take a moment to acknowledge how amazing the scene with Joy playing not one, not two, but three iconic characters from Montree.
I was like, when are we getting into Red Bedroom Records? Because it's so funny.
Are so funny in that scene and the way that you played Chad especially nailed both of them. But the choices you made on Chad were so funny to me, you had me cracking up.
Oh good, they were so great. I was scared to do that. Why well, because I don't want hurt anybody's feelings.
It's like, where's the line between a roast and like when you're making fun of someone in a way that's hurtful. And I was like, yeah, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, and maybe like maybe these people maybe you know, they don't know that some of these are some of their fun ticks, like.
Yeah, like I've got mine. Everybody's got mannerisms on camera and things.
That we carry over to other jobs and or just playing as Haley or Peyton or Lucas or whatever. So yeah, but I just I went for it. It was it was scary, though, I remember being.
Like, oh, and the reason why I think it wasn't it didn't seem cruel to me was I think any young male actor who has aspirations of being a leading man, especially in that time period, knows that cool guy WinCE, the cool guy voice. And let me'll tell you what, if you've ever taken a headshot, you certainly know the cool guy I wish you're watching on YouTube. Everyone's taken that headshot. Guys go to YouTube dot com to seat every headshot I've ever taken right now.
Great.
So when you did the hand on the back of the head, it was so there. It is every male actor knows that.
I also think, like a, yes, the timeliness of it's so reflective of the era. But I think too, you were the only one who could have done it because Brooke and Peyton and Lucas had their love triangle drama. Nathan also dated Peyton, Like, Haley is literally the best friend who doesn't have personal life drama with these two people. So for her, I think she's like the one character who can lovingly make fun of those people without anyone being like, wow, she inserted that because it's like, no, yeah, it works for me because of history and because of this sort of sister vibe that Haley has with both Peyton and Lucas.
I think it's just perfect.
And you know, you've officiated their wedding and you really do know them so incredibly well that you can you can lovingly giggle about their ticks.
I wonder how it came up in the writer's room, Like what somebody sitting there writing the scene, going what would Haley do next? Well, if Peyton and Lucas were there, she would call them huh actually yeah.
And then they just wrote that in that's I think that's so funny. I never would have thought of that.
It's really feel like one of those things where circumstances create a problem and the solution you end up scrambling together is better than the original. Plants like Indiana Jones and Harrison Ford had the flu and there was supposed to be the huge fight with the guy with the sword, and instead he was feeling terrible and he just went, how have I just pull out the gun and shoot him? And then went okay. And now that's the most iconic thing that that fight scene where the guy does all the sword stuff and he just stands there nonplussed and then pulls out his gun and shoots. The only reason that happened was because he had the flu on that day. He was so, how about I just shoot the guy instead? Spielberg was like, Okay.
Oh that's great. I had no idea how Yeah. I love hearing those kind of stories. Yeah, that's great. I love it so cool. Yeah.
The solve of not having these people anymore and missing them, like Jamie reading the birthday card from Lucas and getting the ball in seven oh one, is such a tug on the heartstrings moment, and then to get this comic relief with like, I miss my friends. I can't call them, I don't know who to ask, what to do here? And I like that Hayley goes to Peyton first, because obviously she's your business partner, and you guys run this label together, and then it's like, wait a second, I could do the same with Lucas. It's it's just so it's natural and it's so so funny. Yeah, and the whole dynamic that runs under this scary thing. And I don't know if you and Les Butler talked about this, but I was gonna ask, like, the whole dynamic under the red bedroom storyline is funny even when you come up with your big idea though, Like the way you grab your purse and you're like flailing running out of the room, like everything's funny, Like you're being very physically comedic in a stressful situation. And then when you and Kate are at it, you know, Mia comes to the rescue. You guys are really funny. You're doing a like a good cop bad cop thing together.
Yeah? And was that intentional? Was the goal? Like, oh, this.
Record label drama could feel like heavy and like a big fight, and we want it to feel light and funny because you're gonna win.
No, I'm just a really animated person and I had to. I feel like I had to be so stiff as Hayley so often, and I was always trying to do my lucial ball stuff and Greg or whoever you know, usually Greg, but a lot of our directors would be like.
Could you tone it down a little, like it just not a sitcom. I'm like, oh fine, like but I'm working buck In.
So yeah, no, I think it was I was just probably feeling they also, I mean at that time and when was this two thousand and seven. Yeah, I mean I was like in my personal life incredibly depressed during that time, and so I but my saving grace was work, Like I would go to work and be able to just let loose.
And have fun.
And so I desperately needed play at that time in my life, and I think I started just taking every opportunity I could on set to just make it as fun as humanly possible for myself.
So I did.
That's my ever loving mind. Yeah I get that.
I mean that was, by the way, like full moment of vulnerability. That was my whole experience doing my play in London, Like when you are so crushed and you realize like, oh, everything I've built my life life into I think I think was like words not actions, maybe like yeah, this is not what I thought it was going to be. That is where I think we have such a privilege as artists, because when you can go to work and be in your body and like move and process and laugh and also sometimes laughing is what helps you cry, Like art can actually be the thing that heals you or that gets you free. Yeah, and man like now that of course, I'm like, oh my god, of course that tracks in like obviously, conversations we were having then about what was happening in your life, the conversations we were having last year about was hapening in my life. Like it it really can become like your only place for respite. And so I'm like, oh, of course you were managing to insert comedy into this like essentially contractual fight, you know about like someone buys your record label. That's like an arranged marriage at work. Like of course you needed a little bit of levity in those spaces. But I as if you were not even thinking about that personal life stuff. While I was watching it, I was like, God, I love the choice to make this like a funny fight instead of another SOB story fight like team Damas love to do.
Thanks.
Yeah, thanks, we needed some of that, especially with all the drama coming. I'm excited to see what happens after Nathan has his big really so much tension, so many big things coming.
Him Walking out there to you, I was like, oh my god, oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
I have to tell you something. I was like, oh my god, Yeah, like, do you remember what's coming? I don't.
I mean, I know he's going to tell me everything that I wasn't there for in the episode, but well, yeah, I don't know.
Wow, I don't either. Honestly, It's fun and I like it that way because I get to experienced this like a first time viewer, where I'm just I'm I'm on board for the ride. Do we want to do some honorable mentions? Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and just just jump right in here. Because Denzel and Macaulay for the walkie talkie handles between Jamie and Skills delighted.
Me me too.
That whole scene I could have I could have also done with thirty more minutes of Alison and Antoine and Jackson in the car. That was. I mean the fact that little Jamie's playing therapist to Antoine before Miss Lauren gets in the car, and then the fun of leaving them at the beach. But then the walkie talkie handles man that that was perfect.
I can't believe they had to sit there and get buried in the sand to do that scene. I really hope they weren't there for a long time. I should call Alison an asker.
Yeah, I know, I was thinking that too, Like, how long did they have to be under the sand?
That's not a beach day.
I want Did they have to bury their stand ins first to get all the lighting right?
Oh my god, they I'm sure they did.
I would imagine they dug the pit and then just had the stand and sit.
In, yeah, the empty pits.
And then put Alison and Antoine in and put the sand over that.
That makes sense.
So my honorable mention goes to every girl on the show that doesn't have straight hair having exactly the same hairdoo. Every curly haired girl had exactly the same hair you actually, so if your hair in the first scene with Austin, like the first half of the show was not the same. It was like this really lovely beachy wave, but you still had the bangs we had. They were like side bangs, right, Yeah, and I loved that on you. But yeah, me Kate India's was straight, but it was still the same cut. Chantelle, same straight but same cut, and then Millie and then you occasionally with the bangs in the curly hair, but it was mostly you were doing your own thing. But yeah, so many same Especially when Kate and I were standing next to each other in the red bedroom, I was like, what what happened? We just both went to the same hair salon before we came. It was this was a rough season for hair for me. But uh, yeah, that's my honorable mention.
Just everybody gets the same hair too today.
Oh my goodness, I feel like I have forty honorable mentions in this episode.
Yeah, give us a real one them all. I'm joking, but yes, I'm like, we and here we go.
Yeah, I think all I'll go with Daniel. Like just the mic drop coming out Rachel as Dan's wife and being so in her power and like so obviously in control.
I was like, oh, I'm here for this. I can't wait for more. Yeah.
Also that that's what she said entire scene.
Yes, yes, yes to all of it.
Should we spind a wheel? Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum? Most likely to become a vegan? This is a bummer of a wheel question this week.
I mean it's not me, um me yeah, maybe Whitey, you know, maybe just cause she's getting a little bit later in life and he wants to dis increase that longevity and he thinks I'm just gonna go ahead and be a vegan. So that works out.
We'll take it. I love that answer. All right, great, Whitey, it is. What do we have next week?
I'd love to tell you we have next week? So? Uh, Season seven, episode three, hold my hand as I'm lowered. Oh raises more questions than answers. Gotta watch.
Sounds a little morbid, but okay, here we go, Here we go, Bie, everybody see you next week. Bye, hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's ot.
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