In light of the tough topic in episode 316, Sophia’s friend Shannon Watts (founder of Mom’s Demand Action) joins us for a conversation about what they’re doing to make a difference in the landscape of gun violence in America.
First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama. Girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl cheering for the drama queen's up, girl fashion, but you'll tough. Girl. You could sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, John M Queen's, John Mc Queen's drama, John Mc Queen's drama Queen's. Hey Friends, uh, welcome back. Last week was big and we realized that in going back and watching an episode like that one. Uh, we have questions. So many of you have had questions about what to do, how to get involved, how to not feel heartbroken and hopeless, and we know no better person to lead us from hope hopelessness to help than the incredible and incomparable Shannon Watts, who is the founder of MOM's demand action, an incredible group of MOMS from all across the country and allies and advocates who are joining together to try to solve this crisis. And we could not be luckier than to have Shannon here with the three of us today. Hello, lovely friend and warrior, how are you? I'm good. How are you good? Good, this last episode was a hard watch, Shannon Um, trying to tackle this subject matter on TV, you know, and we were a show that wasn't taken very seriously, and so it felt really weird to become a platform for this conversation. Um. And we know so much more now and kind of getting over stereotypes and and finding out what is the truth of the matter, with the real data shows, with the real you know, still these show is important for our audience. Information is power. M Hmm, and I'm really quick. Sorry, I'm going to pause us for one sec just because they brought you in while we were doing your intro and I would love just to take one spot second before we jump into the episode and also introduce you. And you're such an important person in my life. That's Hillary. This is joy Um and and yeah, last week we watched this episode that we did in two thousand six Um that really centered on a sort of heartbroken kid who had been going through bullying, who brought a gun to school and everything just went terribly. It wasn't a traditional, you know, narrative of of how we see this happening, and one of the things that really just it was so heartbreaking for all of us and watching these, you know, beautiful performances, is that this keeps happening and everybody, you know so many of the fans online are like this one's a hard one to rewatch and it's scary and everybody knows somebody or somewhere that this has happened to or or at. And we just were like, there's we got. We got to go to the lady who can tell us what to do. So, yeah, it's interesting that that everyone was thinking about and talking about in this show lockdown drills right back in two thousand and six. I think it was pretty novel. Um, it's really been the last decade, I would say, that lockdown drills have become something that that of school districts do. They're required in forty states, Um, and that's almost there's almost two different conversations. One is about the effectiveness of lockdown drills and and are actually they're doing more harm than good. And and the other conversation is about school shootings and access to guns. And you know, who are these school shooters? Right? They're not this person that comes in off the street. Typically they're actually students. And how do you stop those? And and and really, what is the bridge between those two issues is the fact that now in this country guns are the leading cause of death among children and teats. I don't I just don't even know how to wrap my head around that. You know, we, I live in a rural community and guns are part of the culture here and I grew up with guns, you know, and so understanding the difference in legislation and in gun ownership from when we were kids in the nineties to what it is now is, I think, a big hurdle, you know, because so many people are like, well, I grew up with guns, but there's a decided difference between what kinds of guns are available, how guns are sold on the Internet. We didn't have Internet sales when we were growing up. It's a totally different world. Well, and how they're marketed to people now, you know, in the same way that those vape companies have gotten in trouble from marketing to kids. We were in a we're in an era of marketing that is perpetuating so much of the the desire and the and the change and culture, it seems. And and I wonder if you know, are there a couple of things that you can kind of teach us and and help us teach our audience some of the points you think are the most valid. Like you said, how did we become a country where of kids are doing school shooter drills? Are they effective? Who? What? What has changed? WHO's doing this? What? And and what do we what do we do? Because it's yeah, it's such a tremendous trauma that we're going through nationally and and the epidemic of violence like this doesn't care where you live, how you live, how much money you have, how you vote. It's it's transcended everything, and so I wonder if you can help us break down what it is now and also what we can do about it. Absolutely, and you know, there's so much to pack there, so if I skip over anything, feel free to ask me and I'll go back. But if you look at guns in this country, and you know, you were saying that that back in the nineties there weren't online sales and there weren't as many, or at least the same kind of guns, and that's exactly right. Um, when you go back to SA Nineteen, there's about triple the amount of guns in circulation now in this country. Um, in addition, we now have the Internet and and many sales are done online and there's no federal law requiring background checks on those sales. So states have to create those laws and about one states have created those laws. But at the same time, twenty one states have passed something called permit less carry, which means you can buy and carry a gun with no background check, no permit, no training. And so there's these two forces at war. And and that's really the mainstream Americans, of whom support things like background checks on every gun sale, versus gun makers and gun manufacturers. And the reason so that they want to sell more guns to more people with fewer barriers to entry like a background check, is because it is a huge industry, billions of dollars, right, and follow the money right exactly? Why are they marketing a R fifteens with ads that say things like Consider Your Man Card reissued? U? And it's not an accident that then we see young white men who are more and more responsible for these hate crimes with guns or school shootings, Um and so. So can I ask a quick question before we move into that, because you said something that that again I find to be so powerful. When we talk about how universal this is. Night literally like we can prove that America wants a federal background check law. So again, that transcends where you live, how you live, how much money you make, how you vote. They should be if you have to have a license to drive a car, you should have a license to get a gun. You have to be able to go to the range, show that you know how to use it, show how to take care of it. Prof you know what say, lawmakers say when we say that, they say what say. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege. It's not in the second it's not a second amendment, it's not in the constitution. So I guess I just understannon. Of US agree on this, and there's not a whole lot of people in this country. We agreed on nine of US agree. So how does that take the power from percent of us? Is that lobbying? Is that corporate money? Like? What? How? How? It's a great question, and it is really when you go back to when the N R a stopped being sort of a hunting and fishing and safety organization and became a gun lobbying organization in the late seventies and they realized that they could pervert the second amendment in order to enrich gun manufacturers and gun obviousts, and that's exactly what they've done. They've become more and more radicalized as an organization because they've been pulled to the right, much like the tea party pulled Congress to the right. There are state gun groups. Almost every single state has one, and they are to the right of the N Ra. They believe any law whatsoever is an infringement on the Second Amendment, and so that base has pulled the n ray to believing really the same thing, which is we are going to support anything the mainstream America supports. We are going to be part of the extremist base. And as a result we see, you know, open carry being normalized and permitless carry being normalized and a lack of safety training and and all of these things that again, mainstream American support going out the window. And so we have to show up in state houses and really fight against the gun lobby. Um, as they try to endanger our communities. Um, but, but why, or why is this being allowed? The other thing that we did not account or was that guns would become an organizing principle in this country. Right. So, when you look at a very right wing agenda. When you look at the laws that are being passed that are are anti abortion or anti L G B T Q, All these different things. What is the thing that is the organizing principle around these issues? It's guns. Guns get people in the door, they raise money, they helped create a new customer base and they excite the base right and so what we're seeing is this this lobby investing in lawmakers that are worried about being primaried, they're worried about going against the gun lobby, and so they they have started doing these things that are incredibly radical. And Look, let's just be clear. The data shows that weak gun laws kill people. When you look at the states with strong gun laws, you see less gun death and less gun violence. When you look at states with weak gun laws, you see the opposite. It's it's it's intuitive, but it's also proven by data. Well, and we've got decades of data now. You know, it's it's not like this is something that's just sprung up and we're you know, it's not the pandemic. It's not, you know, something that's new to us and we're still sorting out. This has been going on for decades and we talked in our last episode about how our specific age group was the first age group to be in high school during Columbine and now have kids old enough to be in middle school in high school still dealing with it, and I find myself increasingly frustrated with my elders who didn't have to go through that, who aren't in in a panic when they dropped their kids off at school. I loved the pandemic because my kids were home with me and I didn't have to think about that, because if you're out there dropping your kids off in the drop offline, you're thinking about it. You know, I don't know any mother who isn't, or father, and so, you know, I think providing people on either side of the aisle with action like calls to action, like what do we do? US All agree on this one thing and our representatives are getting pushed by money in a different direction. What do we do? M Well, and that's one of the things that I will say has inspired me most about what you do, Shannon, and how you've led. You know, you're leading coalitions across the country. You've really helped a lot of us understand that this isn't a disagreement between neighbors. This is of us against a corporate interest that operates with billions of dollars in ways that most of us can't understand, because most of us, you know, the four of us on this show right now and our listeners at home, none of us has the power to call a state senator and and derail a law of their constituents voted in support of. You know, like that's not something most of us can do, and I think to realize that that's what we're up against, but also be bolstered by the hope and numbers, be bolstered by that, be bolstered by the nonpartisan truth of the fact that we agree on this issue. We don't agree with that corporation, but most of us agree with each other. You know that? That is the thing that gives me hope when I'm scrolling TIKTOK and I burst into tears because I see a parent post a video of her six year old son and she's doing bulletproof backpack drills with him in their house, like you guys aren't supposed to do this, like kids aren't supposed to live like this, and it only happens here, and so it's hard to it's hard to say like well, if it only had here, and that's what we're up against. What do we do? How do you give people pointers on how to even begin the conversation about gun violence in their families and then how to take this nearly universal agreement that it should end like out into their communities? So the first thing I want to say is there I have so much hope. I wouldn't wake up and do this work every single day as a full time volunteer if I didn't feel like we were winning. And you know, if you go back to two, Tho twelve, when we started doing this work, about a quarter of all democrats and Congress had an a rating from the N R A. Today none do. So that's the seismic shift in American politics. That having this coalition, this Badass Army of angry women and moms saying not in my community, you won't. That's what made that change. I mean we were literally cornering Democratic senators at their town halls and their house parties and their different meetings and saying how can you be on the side of the gun lobby? And they started changing their votes, they started being proud of their up ratings from the N R a. They wear pins now and we need every lawmaker, regardless of political party, to be on the right side of this issue and I was really heartened that last month when we celebrated the signing of the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, the first federal gun legislation to pass in twenty six years, we had fifteen republicans sign on. You know, again we're seeing this shift and I think people get frustrated sometimes because they want wholesale, overnight change. You know, you there's this tweet I hate that says something like if we didn't change after Sandy Hook, we never will and and nothing could be further from the truth. So much is changed in a decade and this work is like drips on a rock. It is a marathon, not a sprint. INCREMENTALISM is frustrating, but it leads to revolutions and that is what we're seeing. So I would just say you have to use your voice, you have to use your vote on this issue. You know, women only hold about of the five hundred thousand elected positions in this country. We're only five percent of fortune, one tho C E O S. we're not making the laws and the policies that protect our families and community. So we have to get off the sidelines and get out there and fight for these changes. And and let me just give you an example. We have shown up at school boards for a decade. As a result, over two point five million families have received secure storage notifications from their school district saying you should keep your guns locked, unloaded and separate from ammunition. Two point five million families. Last night, Governor Knewso signed a bill that will require every family in the state of California to get that information. That means eight million kids in this country. We'll have these notifications now and and, like I said before, most school shooters are students who have easy access to guns in their home. Four point six million kids live in homes with unsecured guns. So, you know, showing up even at school boards or city councils or statehouses, it all adds up. That's awesome. Mid term elections are going to be a big deal. Yeah, we we just had a special election here in the Hudson Valley in New York where our Conservative leader was slated to win by a lot of points and he did not. Um a veteran who was pro ro and pro gun safety ended up winning and it was shocking. I mean it shocked the nation who was watching this and it and everyone was like the mom showed up. The MOM's exactly Pat Bryan will tell you, and he even tweeted this monster. Man Action Volunteers were his best door knockers. They showed up and he was supposed to lose by double digits and he won and he credits monstum in action for helping make that happen. I mean, we are literally everywhere and one thing we're really good at is getting out the vote. M Shannon, you've built this beautiful coalition and you've really transcended identity politics, like you've managed to just get people together on the facts and the truth and on passion for protecting their kids. How I mean because I think of the decade plus that I've known your work. How did you start? Because I know so many of us can sit at home and think I don't know what I can do, and you've helped all of us do this. How how did this begin? was there a final strong moment? was there something that you saw or heard that just made you go, I don't know what I'm gonna do but I have to do something. Yeah, you know, I think so many other moms in America had the same idea I did that very cold December day when we were watching news unfold on the television and twenty children and six educators were slaughtered in the sanctity of an American elementary school. And and it was just kind of like we can't live like this and our children sure as hell should not die like this. And I can remember going online. At the time I lived in Indiana and I thought I want to join something like mothers against drunk driving, which was so influential to me as a teen in the eighties. Yeah, Oh my God, they were a huge they change of drunk driving, you know, and and the laws, I mean they were just like unstoppable angry bombs. And I wanted to join something like that for gun safety. And I went online and I found some think tanks, mostly run by men, some state organizations, mostly run by men. So I just created a facebook page, not to start an organization, just to have the conversation. And you know, you all, I'm sure, are type A women and moms like they started calling me and emailing me and texting me and and saying like I want to do this where I live. And and and really we didn't know what this was. In fact, I think we thought rallies and marches, but it became really clear really quickly that this was organizing in the same way the gunmaby did, with boots on the ground, an army that could go toe to toe with a special interest. And here we are, ten years later, we have ten million supporters and we're twice as large as the interact. So cool, you're no, it's these women. They're amazing. It's so, so cool. So, for people at home who are not acquainted with your organization, what is the best way for them to get up to speed and to learn about how they can connect with other people in their community, um to, you know, raise their voice, to get involved and to also have productive conversations with their children? I am the mother of a twelve year old boy. I know that boys are being radicalized in our country. Understand and what talking points I can bring up with him and his friends is important to me. And so where can other women find those resources? You bring up such a good point, which is we should all be watching our boys and young men online. And what are they exposed to and what are they seeing? Because, especially during covid we are seeing more and more kids being radicalized into being gun extremists and to committing hate crimes and and of course they have easy access to things like a r fifteens in this country. Right. So you bring up a really important point. Um, look, if you want to learn more about lockdown drills and the research we have that shows really they they cause depression and anxiety, they aren't effective and stopping mass shootings. Um, you can go to every town dot Org. There's so much different research there. Every town is the umbrella that MOM's demand action and students demand action are under. If you want to learn about secure storage and even how to ask the question when you send your kid to friends and families homes, the website for that is be smart for Kids Dot Org, and you'll learn all kinds of you know, I do it through text right. Do you have a game around your pool? Um, do you let your kids play and rated video games? And, by the way, do you have guns and how are they secured? So they're really easy ways to do that. And then the last thing I would say is you don't have to be a mom. Were mothers and others. Now, if you want to join moms to man action or students to man action, just text the word ready to six four four three three, six four four three three, yep, ready, Yep. That's such a great resource. And I will say there are there specific policy uh that that you guys, policies that you guys are putting forward right now, that people can look out for that are not going to be scary for people who, you know, want they want the rights that they have, the right to own their guns. They want, you know, we're all gun owners, but to do it in a safe way where it's not a scary thing that we're looking out like, oh no, they're trying to remove our rights from us, but a policy that is going to really unite everyone. What are the things that we can look for in our in our voting? Yes, and you bring up a really good point, which is, you know, we are not anti gun. We're not against the second amendment. Many of our volunteers are gun owners or their partners are gun owners. There's four hundred million guns in this country right they're all gun owners. I mean that's like a it's a really common thing and the rhetoric, I think, is so scary. You know exactly. And so we just want to restore the responsibilities that should go along with gun rights and that includes a background check on every gun sale. Um, hopefully, you know, we will have federal legislation that that closes all the loopholes. But, as I mentioned, we just had the BI partisan Savor Communities Act, which is a huge step forward, Um, and and we are in the meantime working on that legislation in the states. So, as I mentioned, we've passed background checks now at twenty one states. We've passed laws that disarmed domestic abusers in twenty nine states. M We've closed so many to at loopholes. Were passing secure storage laws. This is again just about the responsibility to go along with gun rights. You should have a background check, you should have a permit, you should have a certain amount of rigorous gun safety training, right experience. That we most American support. And also, you know, eighteen year old shouldn't have access to weapons of war. I mean, I think we can all agree on it. If you have a kid, you know that. You're twenty one year old son, you know, is nowhere near ready to hand. They don't even have their own health insurance, you know what I mean, like they're still on your phone plan kids, right. Yeah, I don't think you should have access to something like that before your prefrontal Cortex is done developing, and that shouldn't be controversial. Rent a car, you shouldn't have an air of team girl. That is the point, right. Yes, I follow vote vets. I grew up in a military home and and so I really appreciate their take on the gun reform and, you know, legislation in our country. Are there other organizations that you would recommend people look into? Yes, I love fair fight. I think that's a really important organization about freedom and voting. Um, I think you should get involved it's something that you're passionate about, right. So, if it's voting rights, if it's Um abortion rights, you know, if it's school boards. I mean it's really kind of scary what's happening in our country with school boards. So look, if you if you Google those organizations and you're passionate about something like find what fits. It doesn't have to be a national organization or, you know, you could start something yourself, right. I mean, if you are passionate about something, there's no reason that you can't create this in your neighborhood or your community or your state. Um. I just think it's so important, though, to get off the sidelines, just find what you're passionate about and agree that you're going to give an hour or two a week if that's all you can afford to do. But it does all add up and I'm just really impressed by, you know, one organization that I do love. I just met the one when you're a woman who runs it. It's called Mother's against Greg Abbott, and they're so amazing. I mean that they are just doing such great things in the state of Texas because they're angry about a whole host of issues. Like there should be. There should be a mom's demand abortion action. There should be a mom's demand, you know, whatever that is like. We should just be creating coalitions and working together, because that's that's kind of you know, Alice Walker said democracy this. You know, activism is the rent I pay to live on the planet, and that's what a democracy. I love what you were saying about that you wouldn't do this job if there weren't hope, and I think that has got to be the bottom line. And these things that feel like David and Goliath problems for us, whether it's homelessness or gun rights or you know, I mean whatever. The list goes on and on. But you have to find a center of hope that is your beacon. Otherwise it just feels to behemoth. There's just no way to get through it. So I'm so glad to hear that you feel that in your work, that when you wake up in the morning you're like, I see the hope. Never join an organization where there isn't joy in activism, because I don't think you can keep going unless you feel hopeful and joyful and you find your community people. That's that's what keeps people involved. One of the things that gives me so much joy, Shannon, is you know, things are on fire a lot lately. It's been a really intense a couple of years for everybody, and some days I get on instagram just to go to your page and I scroll to find where you've posted a slide show, because you'll post like ten wins and you'll be like this amazing woman, one elected office in this state and this incredible thing happened in this community. Got This law path us in this school did this and I'm just like God. I needed that. I needed that dose of good news and things to celebrate, and it it does. You know, enjoy your right. It really helps us put in perspective when, when we feel small and scared, to realize that everywhere around us people are winning and succeeding. Every little bit counts. Yeah, alright, we're Allan you put us to work. We have an army, yes, ma'am, for November, just in time. Yeah, ma'am, it's important that we care. We did a TV show about caring so much about everything, and so if we can turn that into real life care, awesome. You know what a reward? I love it. It's it. It's so nice to see you, wonderful to meet you. Thank you for having me on and thank you for shining a light on this issue, which again, because gun violence is the leading cause of death among teens and kids. Are Children and teens. We all have a role to play, and whether it's asking people about how they secure their story, their guns, whether we do it ourselves, whether it's advocating in school boards and city councils and states this, we all have a role to play, whether we're gun owners or not. Yeah, I will say, I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, Shannon, but years ago, Um, when all the coalitions worked on that friendly fire campaign to illuminate the fact that so many kids in this country get injured or killed, Um, when they find unsecured guns. I realized, and this was before any of my you know, friends who I see at my house regularly, I had had kids. Y'All are in different states, um, but I realized, like as as a gun owner, I have always been very clear about a secure place, but I did not have our guns in a gun save and I was like here I am helping to a voice over for a campaign, gotta go, and I like went right down to the shop and bought a safe and was like it doesn't matter that they're in a secure place and that there aren't ever kids in my house. There could be and there will be, and it was it was cool to feel like I learned something instead of like I got shamed into something. And you've been so instrumental at helping so many of us learn where we can be better, do better, do more, and I think that's what we need more of. And so I know Hillary was asking about all the other organizations, including your own, that people can look to for that kind of inspiration. Again, another shout out of Vovets. Just love them so much. But but for people who feel inspired, where, where should our listeners go today to be up on all that you're doing and to add their voices to the fight? That would be great good. MONSTERMAN ACTION DOT Org. Or text the word ready to six F four three three. The thing I love is that we have this whole group of volunteers and their job is to call and welcome new volunteers. Um every time there's a horfect shooting tragedy, and there were so many the summer, sadly, people get off the sidelines and so it's really important that we can say to people here's what you can do in your community next week, here's an event coming up near you, here's what you can do to get out the vote. So I promise you, if you text were ready to six, four three three, you'll get a call back and we will tell you exactly how to plug in where you live. Thank you so much for coming, Shannon. Thanks for having me. I read the coolest tweet recently that I sent to her. Somebody posted it and said the thing nobody talks about is that the Second Amendment was ratified before bullets existed. I mean it was must get shot. It was like it was must get shot and powder, those little round balls that went in muskets one at a time, with guns forever. Yeah, and I was like, Oh my God, it's so insane that we've we have this big fight when the thing we're fighting about didn't even exist. When the when the thing we're fighting it would be like right now. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like I went to joy's point cars, you gotta go to school, you gotta get a license, you gotta take tests regularly. It's like we're just asking for some something sensible. I think it's just that, you know, people are scared of what they don't know, and it feels like what you were saying, Hilary. It's so scary. The narrative is so scared and don't take away my guns, and it's like nobody's trying to do that. We're just trying to make it more responsible so that the wrong people don't get their hands on it. That's what's going on. Yeah, Pete, Buddha said the best thing. A couple of years ago. There was a mom's demand. Helped with a big gun sense for him in Iowa during the last presidential primary and when, you know, when they were still seventeen candidate and pete was up there talking and he's a veteran and he was like, Hey, guys, we have this whole conversation about a well regulated militia, keywords well and regulated. He goes, I'm a military veteran. There's a line. You can't own a Predator drone. You just can't have one as a citizen. And he goes and I gotta be honest, as a man who carried one of these weapons in war, you shouldn't have one and I'm not in the army anymore and neither should i. and I just was like you're my hero. That was incredible. You can't have a Predator drone. I'll never forget it. No, you know, the upside is Um is not there. And then the sales teams want to make you feel like, oh, there's all this horrible stuff happening in the world. If you just own one of our toys, it'll protect your family, and so that cycle of salesmanship continues and I think the data is on the side of no. You know, if you put a bear trap in your house, someone's come to step on it. Exactly, Um. And you know, to make a TV show about this fifteen years ago and to still be talking about it is hard. But Shannon gives me hope that there's two progress being made. And you know what, it's so inspiring to be reminded that you don't have to wait for someone in some office to fix it. Like a group of MOMS can get together and get it done. MOMS are terrifying. A group of MOMS will always get it done when they get together. I tell you, I'm here for it. Here's to MOMS, here's to angry MOMS. Have a drink, but my favorite kind of ladies this is coffee, but I'll pretend to talk. Come on, we're responsible. Well, I love you girls, love you guys so much. I'm glad. We are glad we did this. Thank you. Thanks, Sophia, for introducing US to Shannon. That was very cool, and Um, to our friends at home. You know, we don't have all the answers, but what we do get excited about is when somebody illuminates hope for us to move forward. So we hope that Um this. This special episode was able to give you a little bit of hope, because, Oh man, last week was lacking a lot of it. Yeah, that was a top episode. Well, UM, hopefully the next one will start to recover a bit. Fingers crossed. We'll see you, guys in three seventeen. I love you all. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama queens o t h or email us at drama queens at I heart radio DOT com. See you next time. We are all about that high school drama. Girl, drama, girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride at our comic girl cheering for the right drama Queens. Go Up, girl, fast him, but your tough girl. You could sit with us. Girl, drama, Queeze, drama, Queeze, drama, Queen's drama, drama, Queen's drama Queens.