Sophia, Joy and Rob break down the latest episode and they aren't shy to mention a few inaccurate portrayals. They also discuss how they think Nathan successfully covered his tracks from Haley for so long.
Then, Rob questions how Nathan continues to keep secrets from Haley and asks Joy the burning question of why she suddenly had red hair in this episode!
First of all, you don't know me.
We all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them.
High school queens. We'll take you for a ride. And our comic girl shared for the right teams.
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I just wanted to start by saying, joy you were sorely missed last week.
Oh thank you.
We had a wonderful guest in Daphne. She came by and was so much fun. But you know, it didn't fill the joy sized void in my heart, probably the hearts of everyone. So welcome back from.
Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be back. Yeah it was.
It was a harried week last week, and I'm really happy to be slowing down a little bit. Folks for you out there who don't know, you have Portland, London, and I was gonna say Paris, but you don't have Paris. You have Michigan, in London, in Michigan.
Today, my my Paris trip was sadly short.
It looked spectacular.
Oh what is cooler than the Olympics.
I don't I don't know, I really don't know.
It's such an amazing thing to experience, and to experience it in one of my favorite cities. Yeah, it was just so surreal. Like the horse riding events were at the Palace of Versailles.
Oh stop, yere Versai at Versailles. God, that's amazing.
I was like watching these gorgeous riders on these big, beautiful horses ride through ponds in front of a palace.
And I was like, this is just once in a lifetime.
Oh yeah, it felt once in a lifetime.
It was very cool, once in many lifetimes.
I wish I was still there. But I will also say that being in Michigan doing the work Nea and I do, I'm getting to see a couple of places I have never been before in the state, and then getting to go to some of my other favorite places in the state. Ironically, today we're leaving Harbor Springs and going to Traverse City. And guess who first took me to Traverse City. Janna Kramer.
Oh no way.
It's like I'm having a very one tree hill day today with you guys and this. Yeah, it's very fun.
Are you all Winter Olympics or Summer Olympics? Folks?
All Olympics?
Yeah, I mean, I guess I tune in more for winter because I was an ice skating kid, like I loved I didn't go ice skating ever, but I loved watching it because it seemed so magical to me, and curling always seemed so strange.
I was fascinated by.
It's such a weird sport.
The randomness of curling and skiing. Yeah, I think I'm more Winter.
If I had to pick, what are you rav?
Well, I ask because I feel like I remember the Summer Olympics being kind of like the headed stepchild. Like I remember specifically there was a joke on thirty Rocks because back then NBC had the Olympics and someone saying like, we had the Olympics, and someone responded, Summer Olympics.
Summer Olympics.
However, they've just rolled around and I'm watching it fascinated, and I found myself going, wait, how are these not cool? This is awesome? You know.
I was just talking with somebody. They're so cool.
I was just talking to somebody three days ago who was like, I don't know what we were talking about. There was some reason the topic came up, but basically the statement that was said that blew my mind was yeah, but nobody cares about the Winter Olympics. The only people, the only thing people watch are Summer Olympics. Like the entire world watches the Summer Olympics, the winter or like whatever. And I was like, what planet did you grow up on? I don't know anybody who wasn't obsessed with the Winter Olympics.
It's very weird to me.
I mean, how are you going to pick between like downhill skiing and gymnastics. Incredible, they're iconic, they're different. But I don't know why anybody would suggest that one season of Olympics is less magical than the other. I think they're all so cool.
Sophia, magic for all, every magic for magic.
Listen. I think, like the way I think kids feel about Disneyland, that's how I feel about the Olympics as an adult.
Yeah, do we all?
I'm wondering if this is still a younger generation did they feel that way too?
Because when we were kids, there was.
Ten channels on the television, and when the Olympics were on, they were on all the channels. And that's all you could watch, and it really united US as a country, and it was the one thing you could sit down and knew that everybody was doing at the same time.
And now it's like, yeah, watch the Olympics.
Great, Or if you want to watch a real crime show on History Channel or book any other channel, you can watch that, or seven hundred and fifty other things like did you see a lot of younger crowds there or was it mostly people sort of our age and older?
No, I mean full, incredible smattering of like everybody. There's families traveling, there's I mean, god, I saw adorable elderly people from every country and you know, down to parents carrying their toddlers in like baby borns. It was very Yeah, it was just very cool.
I saw a hilarious tweet that said a person was basically saying, I'm still petitioning the Olympic committee. Just before every event, let one average, random person to the event. That way we have a frame of reference for just how superhuman everyone else is. Because when you only show superhumans doing it, they all look average except for like the one super superhuman. But if you put like one average Joe out there first, then it would be mind blowing to see how incredible these performances are.
I love that idea. Why are we not doing that? I feel like everybody could get behind that. I feel like they.
Could wear like you know, the advertising could go on jerseys. I feel like people would show up from hometowns to cheer on their average Joe runnerh or ski or.
Like the half court shot that you get the chance to try to make, like a WNBA or an NBA games, you know, where some person gets up and it's like, oh, let's see if I can compete with one of the pros. It would be so cool to see someone just try.
Yeah.
I mean that would unite the world for sure. Are you serious?
Everybody would tune in for that as many people as watch reality TV.
Everybody would tune in for that.
What if? What if hear me out? Because I love that angle also and sort of a less severe Hunger Games way. What if instead of giving people like four hundred and fifty hours of community service, they were just like, you were going to have to do an event that we're not going to tell you about until five minutes before in front of the entire world, Because could you imagine you have no time to prep for it. You just show up and they're like, by the way you're running the eight hundred, you know you're doing hurdles, no way, and then you just get shamed in front of the whole work and they have like one one athlete run it with you, just so there's like it's especially clear how poor you are at this.
It would be so painful.
That is a dystopian version of society that I am interested in.
Did you see the other tweet that is going viral in this subject matter where somebody essentially said that the one normal person who does said Olympic event so we can understand how hard it is gets picked by random selection like jury duty, to just get a notice in the mail and it's like this year you're competing for your country on the pommel horse.
Like huh, I guess what we're saying, future Olympic committees is hire us. We all are open to be terrible at whatever event, winter or summer, because we love them both equally.
Yeah, just let us know I would do that instead of jury duty. I'm volunteering. Sure, do that, instead of jury duty, no problem. Happy to make an ass out of myself. I do it every day.
Might as well. Might as well do it in the Olympics.
Do it for your country.
Should we talk about this episode game?
Yeah?
Yeah, Rob, you want to tell everybody what the heck we're watching?
A big id love.
To it was a big one. Season seven, episode five, Your Cheating Heart air day, October twelfth, two thousand and nine. Haley is thrust into the spotlight and storm of Nathan's growing scandal. Against her better judgment, Brook allows Julian to continue working with Alex while Millicent gets a new job which may cause trouble for Mouth. Meanwhile, Clay and Quinn grow closer. Directed by Pistol Pete Kowalski, I do best talking.
About making an ass out of yourself in front of people in public. I mean, Haley with this slap, this slap that went viral, it's quite a thing.
I wouldn't call that making an ass. That was kind of bad ass.
Okay, okay, I'm gonna take it.
There was some strong Mama Bear and instincts happening there that I was on board for.
Yeah, yeah, Haley's got a habit of doing this that this is the maybe.
Third person I've maybe fourth.
I think it's probably the fourth person I've slapped on the show, which makes me feel like Haley definitely grew up in a big Irish Catholic family and there were lots of kids smacking each other around older sisters.
This episode, as per usual, had so many great quotables in it. Yeah, and this opening scene with you and James. I loved the moment. You know, you guys are just having You're looking at the tabloid. He walks up sipping a cup of coffee and he's just trying to be a good teammate and he says, there are worse things than hitting a pregnant woman. You say, yeah, like what, and he just takes a slow sip of his coffee goes, give me a minute.
It was so good.
I was really into the Name than Haley storyline in this episode. It was fun to see them. It was fun to see them processing through something. I feel like we've seen a lot of them at odds when something difficult comes up. There seems to be a lot of they're fighting against each other a lot, and so to be able to face something together head on, that like a real mature growth in the relationship and important to see for us as viewers to know how far they've come.
I agree. We actually talked about that a little bit last week with Daphne that it's really refreshing, and look, TV needs drama, right, but it's really refreshing that instead of what just like you're talking about, instead of you guys fighting about something, you get to see two adults in the ultimate sort of representation of a healthy relationship, which is it's you and me on this side of the court and on the other side of the net is the problem. Like we really face it as a team, and I've loved seeing you guys do that, and the sort of strength and ease of Nathan and Haley that I think comes so naturally from you and James spending these seven years working together. You feel the history so inherently between you two, and it's why it's nice when instead of the drama being you know, some other crazy thing that happens near the end of the episode. I like that it's like a little worm of suspicion getting at you from the women in jail, from Renee coming to talk to you, you deciding to check the phone records after Jamie's fallen asleep. Sorry to skip ahead, but it's like it weaseles its way in and it makes it feel more insidious because then we know as an audience that you're not totally on the same team anymore, and he doesn't know yet and makes us feel like we are in on a secret and it's it's a nice kind of suspense tool.
Yeah, it's good.
I have lots of thoughts on that, but I have to start by talking about the prison situation.
Let's get into it. Haley does hard time, Haley and the.
Hookers, like, why are the only women in jail prostitutes?
Every time?
There are so many other ways to break a law.
We know who wrote our show. There was so much, by the way, not just the girls in prison with you. There was so much that was so insane about women in this episode, much unnecessary, and it was like, well, obviously every girl throws herself at a man she wants to work with and takes her clothes off, and it's like, no, they don't, No, they don't, but we say that what anyway? Yes, from the from the gals in jail. Although I'm always happy when you know, some of our friends on our crew get to get in front of the camera and act, but my god, it was so wild to me.
Yeah, just yeah, top to bottom.
How about there's no phones? I love that. First of all, it was a terrific surprise when you when you have a visitor, Haley as a visitor, and I'm like, oh sweet, Nathan was right on her heels. Yeah, and that it was renee very effective. I was, I gasped. But neither of you pick up phones. You just start talking at each other through the plexiglass. Did set Deck not have time to grab two phone handles? Like, that's not how that works? They record everything? What?
Yeah, what did happen? They were like, sorry, we couldn't find any phones today. Just go ahead and shoot. Somebody said, all right. And the fact that she brought lipstick to write her number on, like she didn't just write it on a piece of paper like she knew she was going to do that, hold up a like.
Oh no, it's got to be written in lipstick.
I mean, very dramatic sick.
Yeah, yeah.
Does that ruin your lipstick? Or do you just after you put your lipstick on something other than your lips, can you wipe it off or is that just toast?
Well, you can wipe it off, but I mean that's going to gret it like put its wax basically, so if you just like pushed it down, there's nothing left for you to use.
I guess you could cut it off and use whatever it was left. But clearly she didn't care about that lipstick.
She just wanted to be dramatic.
But like, who carries around lipstick that you don't care about? Cheap lipstick that you just plan on writing on plexiglass with?
Like you stopped at the Walgreens on your way to jail.
I know how I'll do it.
Let me get a Let me get a lipstick for a dollar so I can really pack a punch.
Well, this girl is dramatic, if I mean, she's doing such a great job playing a character that is accusing in such dramatic ways and sitting so quietly and so still and so solid, and like it's very it's unsettling how settled she is.
Yeah, And what's interesting about it is what I like about the way you and James, because that's sort of the main through line right now, is what's happening with you guys, but sort of to so it's point you two are so grounded, You're a united front, like everything around you is crazy, but you two are like, we're good, we know how we're handling this, Like your energy is stable. And it's interesting because opposite you is the person who's making these crazy accusations, who's also playing it very grounded, very real, very direct, and so it creates this interesting dynamic where what's happening around you is like paparazzi circus public allegations, but the actual people involved are calculated, Yeah, are quiet.
Yeah, it's so much more believable that she is so still and calm. Scary, But what you were saying about the couple, about them facing everything as a couple and you know, all the chaos going on around them, and what you were saying soap about them being a united front at the end, but then the suspicion creeping in. What this made me think of? I was thinking about, you know, putting myself back in Haley's shoes. And Ethan has a history of covering his own ass when he's in trouble. He did with the basketball cheating scandal in high school, which is why he didn't end up going to college on a scholarship for basketball. He did it with Nanny Carey, knowing how inappropriate she was being and how but you know, he didn't set boundaries and he just didn't want to get in trouble and didn't and then look what happened. He's done impulsive things when he's drinking, like the bar fight and then the you know, the fight, and when he was in the wheelchair, was like, there's a there's a history of that, and their whole relationship have started because he was trying to mess with Lucas. And my question is, when your relationship starts on manipulation of any kind, can you ever really get past that or will you always default to suspicion? Like is that why Haley is when she's checking the phone records, like it's starting to creep in because she's like, he's done this, not this, but he's spent time covering his own ass before.
Do I let this in?
I think it's such a good question, and I think it's hard to answer because some of what we're referencing is high school like teenagers. Yeah, you don't have a fully formed brain yet, Like you don't really there's no way you know how to make good decisions, and you do get so scared to, you know, figuratively, be called to the principal's office, and you have to learn to practice your integrity so that hopefully you do so as an adh right, Like that's the sort of idea of coming of age. But so few people got married when they were sixteen, so so few people in their adult relationships know the sorts of things you're referencing. And so the way I saw it as an audience member watching the episode was that because of the way Renee is behaving with Haley, and she seems so sure, and she apologizes and says, it's not you I'm angry at and he's lying to us both. It's such a bold thing for her to be doing, to give you her number and say look in his phone records. Of course, you go, well, why would she say all of this if there's not some truth to it? And you can't help but look.
And the fact that she knows she's going to find out anyway. Even Haley says it in the episode, Yeah right, we're going to find out to says the baby's born.
What are you talking about?
Right? So it it that to me is sort of like the little like it gets in there and then it just starts to grow, you know. It's it's the it's the same sort of thing that we even see in Millie's instance and that we talked about last week. You know that you immediately take the horrible commentary personally because it's hurtful, and the good stuff doesn't penetrate because we all, you know, don't believe it. It's like, I think, those things that could hurt you, it's just human nature that they get in, and I think the way she gets them in makes sense to me. But it's interesting to think about adding the layer of oh did he get drunk and act like high school Nathan? Because that guy's in there somewhere.
That's who she met, that's who she fell in love with, you know, that guy and the potential new guy that she orte the potential you know, mature version of Nathan.
But I don't know.
I wonder I haven't been in a relationship long term enough to be able to know whether or not. You're always still kind of looking back at the past and being like, is that person still in there?
Or did we really grow right?
Well? Because so often when you look at all of the evidentiary past of someone being terrible, you end the relationship, like you know, you go huh, okay, the bad deeds have piled up to here. I think I deserve more than this. I'm done. Yeah, And so it's an interesting thing when we're observing this couple who hasn't hit that threshold. We are more in the fairy tale, you know, written for a great epic television love story land where there were some indiscretions, clearly never enough to make you leave. So what do you do with them all?
Now?
Robert, I'm going to answer that question with the question completely off topic. Joane, did you have a chance to watch seven h four Yeah?
Uh oh, no, No, I didn't.
Okay, well, it kind of carried over to this one, but we had a very big burning question. Did your hair suddenly get red? And did you is this at this point of the season. Did you just have a dramatic hair color that we didn't address on the show that happened in real life?
Completely? I mean this, ok oh, yeah, and I don't even think it was probably one of those where I was like.
Uh, I would love to have a reddish tone, and I think we ended up with a full This season for hair was tough. I think there was some crossover happening in the hair department where with people coming in and going out, and you know, just human life, like the people at everybody's personal lives are real and you can't always just show up and be a robot at work. And so I feel like there were sometimes some moments that didn't quite go as planned with hair.
But it looked good. I was happy with it, but it was a little bright.
Yeah.
What I remember too about that joy is again with this big shift we had with you Rob and Chantelle coming in and retooling the show, it was almost like we were back in season one, and because Chantelle had brownish red hair, they were in a panic. They were like, we don't have a blonde, what are we gonna do? And so they took her hair in that like darker red world. You got bright red because apparently when people are sisters they have to have somehow the same hair color. And then my hair went back to being like very dark, ashy brown.
Yes, but I don't know why they didn't make me blonde instead, like go back, because I had been blonde before on the show. Honestly, I was pretty stubborn. I mean it might have just been me being like, nah, I want red hair. I mean if I'm being very honest, I know what my tendencies were.
I may have just done that, but I don't remember.
I hope I didn't, but I don't.
Know who knows. But I definitely remember thinking and like in some of the scenes with the two of you girls with the James sisters, like going, oh, I see what they're trying to do here. They really want you to go No, really, they do look alike. Look. Yeah, it's those things that a network will often, you know, put in the notes.
I wonder, Yeah, we clearly we were still trying to figure out my hair. I was not into the look on this episode. It was all not working for me personally. But yeah, the red, I mean, everybody's got to try red once you found exactly the right shade.
So that's what I should have done.
Has gone to a color specialist and been like, if we're gonna do red, you have to match with your skin tone, and yeah, lot that goes into red.
But by the way, this don't forget we were still in the you know, mid aughts or on the early side, like color was not what it is now. Do you remember when I went read years before this for that movie and I literally I mean, it looked like somebody had thrown me in like a cinnamon vat and then let me loosen the streets. It was horrible. It was horrible. This version, which of course is in a pony taiale today so I can't really illustrate for the eventual YouTube, is much better. But I just I just think this whole era of hair color and the fact that they color timed our show so orange as it is orange.
Yeah, that was rough.
Could you please tell us the name of that movie so we could all google.
It absolutely right now? Oh dear, I sha't.
There's IMDb, ma'am.
We will think what I will do for you, Rob, I will send you some photos for you to giggle at. I shan't be encouraging the internet to do it for me. The internet is already a trashy enough place.
Just take it from Millicent herd Sandwich. Wait, Rob, what are your thoughts on this? Nasan and Haley like the relate, well even just the relationship, like longevity and looking back at people's past crimes, and like, I'm just curious, like what your thoughts are on that?
So my first thought when you said that was it reminds me of when someone meets someone who's in a relationship and they hook up and they start having a relationship, and then down the line they get cheated on and it's that thing of but you do remember your origin story was them cheating on someone else to meet you, Right, Yeah, like a snake's always going to be a snake. That's that's an oversimplification though, because the problem is, and like Sofa was saying, there is such a difference in the person you are at eighteen yep. And I'll speak for at least men and at thirty five, because it takes us a bit longer to pull our heads out of our asses. So at a certain point you have to decide are you going to hold on to who they were at eighteen or yeah? Am I going to be comfortable with who I know they have grown into?
Yeah?
So what's nice about it with you guys is what I get as a viewer is I feel like you know who he is up until the very very end of the episode, that you're you're comfortable, like you're confident, like, yeah, those are past transgressions, I know the man he is now we're good.
Yeah, Well, and it is really interesting, you know, even in the relationship between Nathan and David, Nathan talks about Haley and Chris Keller. He's like, look, everybody has these growing pains. Things happen. It's a reminder that Nathan is not the only person who's ever had a you know, indiscretion or a or a confusing time. And so there's something interesting about that. It's like we're being reminded that you two have grown up together. But yeah, it's tricky.
And this, what they did with the phone number was particularly effective. Yeah, because you are it had to be something really clever and insidious for you to actually even give it a second thought. And so the fact that she is bold enough to go, it's going to take you ten seconds just look at this number, see if it's in there, because the truth is you have to check it right because otherwise, if it's not you, you clearly in that moment, now you know one hundred percent she's full of Yeah. So it's almost too brave to be a bluff. So you kind of have to look right because if you don't, like, I guess, it could be the end of it if it's not in there. But the fact that then you see it, it's.
Like oh, now.
I'm not getting the full story.
Yeah. Now it's really requiring.
I'm gonna have to do some mental gymnastics to believe that this isn't something.
Yeah, And all I can think of, as if you were watching you find that phone number in his phone records is like, well but why? And was that was that like a number for an assistant at the sports agency that then Renee managed to like get transferred to her? Like what I mean it my brain? Yeah, but it's so great because it's a even if it's not what she says it is, it's a it's a concrete piece of evidence of something something, And that's really really a.
Piece of a story that Nathan hasn't told you about. And it's so hard when when you're in a tricky situation like that, where there's doubt and there's big feelings, it's so hard to feel like information's being withheld from you because information isn't withheld unless there's an angle to it.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's like if he is withholding it, why because if you're innocent, you just don't care, you know, like you're a prop of book. And so yeah, that was very effective. But I want to go back to start of the episode, because when I when Quinn walks out in her evening dress into Clay's apartment, I had such a big reaction, right, you know when parents say, I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. My note in all caps is, did Clay and Quinn have sex the first night they hung out? I think because I already I still feel so badly for David on how she gets the guy who just punched her husband current husband. She got in his car in front of her husband and left. So when she walked out, two thoughts. I thought, First of all, she is way too perfect and made up to have had sex and slept on that hair because she looks flawless, So first of all, bullshit. But then second of all, because I think I want to like Clay and Quinn. Again, I'm looking at this as a new viewer, right, I just thought that's a shy look. Guys like be better than that. And so the whole episode I found myself going, how have I not remembered that this was their origin story? This is a freaking bummer. And that's not until later in the episode we find out all they did actually was talk. But I did not like it as a viewer, I was pissed off.
Yeah, I felt like, especially if there's a chemistry building up to just give it away so fast, that was I wouldn't have been a good choice.
It's so well done though, like that feeling of no, they couldn't possibly have and you see how angry Nathan is and even oh my god, like the way I felt like my skin was going to peel off when when Quinn goes we turned our phones off, I was like, what are you doing? Like they really drew it out so well, and it's and then it's so sweet when you get to the end of the episode and she thanks him for letting her crash and you realize these are two people going through a hard time, Yeah, that might just need to talk to each other. It was so refreshing, and it is really nice to know that even though they're in these clearly complicated times of transition, that they're not behaving wildly. I just again, I think it's the difference between high school and adulthood. Like I really felt for Quinn in the scene with You too, Joy, Like when you and shan Tell are sitting there talking about relationships. I caveat this what made me laugh was when you said if you and David can't make it, how well Nathan and I ever because I was like.
We don't know these people.
We've heard about their relationship, they've been broken up since the day they started, and we're comparing them to Neale, who we've been in love with for seven years. Like writers, that was the one fail for me. I was like, literally, the audience doesn't know anything about these two. But okay, But I loved where the conversation went because you realize that you know you're you're sitting there trying to figure out what to do about your marriage and wondering if it's as strong as it is, and your sister is sitting there saying I have stayed in a thing that is just dead for so long. There's like nothing I can do to salvage it. I've literally tried everything. I don't even have feelings anymore. And and those those two realities feel like the things that we all go through with our friends now, like they really feel like adult problems. And there was something very cool about the juxtaposition between our high school selves and our adult selves. I feel like the problems feel real and grown up, and that felt refreshing. The advice felt real, it felt you know, relevant, what.
I'm thinking about when you're saying that, rob about how wild that was, and also like that felt irresponsible, and they're turning their phones off.
And there's something.
About that that I actually really related to with Quinn, that the need for autonomy is when you've been in an environment for so long that I don't know again, like you say, we don't know their marriage, we don't know this relationship.
Apparently it was great at one point, but.
When you've had to report back to somebody for so long to to and now you're staying she's staying with her sister, and now her sister's upper butt, and like everybody's just like, where are you?
What are you doing to be able to be.
Like, I'm going to take them as a grown up. I am not my high school self anymore. I am not the girl who married this boy a long time ago. I need a moment, And I'm going to make a choice as an adult woman to go sit and spend the night in this man's house. And we're not going to sleep together, and even if we did is nobody's business.
But I need a moment. I need a moment for myself and all y'all can just back off.
I was into that, Yeah.
Yeah, I thought it was I mean, that's self care, you know, because these days everyone has access to you all day. Yep. Yeah, And when you turn off your phone, you are actually taking a pause from that, so I thought that was great. The one thing it's funny this is this is something I did remember was Quinn's line where Clay's phone is blowing up again in this moment, I'm still also like kissed off in my head like they had sex. Wasn't our origin story friendship? Like what why do I not remember any of this? And then when she goes, wow, your phone's doing a lot, I only have one thing that vibrates that much.
Oh that was one of those lines. So if you're talking about like.
Why doing why? Like what are we? What a human being? Like? What is what is happening? What is the dynamic? What is relationship that in this moment, that's the line. What?
No, it's so inappropriate where it.
Was the shan tell because she she she delivered it as well as it could be delivered, so she did great with it.
But like what it's so gross.
You see the signature of our boss on that one.
Yeah, well that's the whole thing, right, is like, oh, all the girls are skanks and sex fiends and they just stripped their clothes off in front of men, and how are the men that were supposed to resist? And it's like no, No, Mostly people fall in love because they hang out and they become friends and then they decide they want to kiss each other's faces. I don't, I don't. I've never met a human who like, just you know, does what Alex Duprey did in this episode.
No, it's gig all over again. It's just absurd.
Well, and it's recycling of things, even the fact that in season one, Peyton makes the joke that Brooks leopard bra is like a welcome mat, and then the top of this episode, Brooks says to Julian, Alex's underwear is like a welcome mat.
Wow.
Good callback such a lack of creativity, It's so crazy.
Jenna does such a good job as Alex, and she has shown that she is able to play all of the different speeds very well. She can stick the hell out of the comedy. But then when she's given a sincere change, like a change up, she hits it, and then I just feel like this episode just undermined the sh out of all of the building we were doing to show that there's more there than meets the eye because we've seen hints of it. It's like it is her over sexualization is so freaking heavy handed in this episode that, honestly, it just bummed me out and it left me just going Now, she just seems manic because she is so myopic in that scene with Julian where it's just sex, sex sect this thing she's so excited about she wrote, she loves, she respects Julian. She finally has his attention. They're talking about it and she can't be bothered, and all she wants to do is just have sex with him and then take off her clothes. And then two scenes later she's like, he's the only one who believed in the thing I love. It's like this, you just seem manic now because it's it's just peaks and valleys with her.
Well, it's a really good indicator that it was written by a man who really has never had female friendships.
Yeah, and maybe a man who is drawn to women with trauma. Because there's so many female characters that he writes that the over sexualization doesn't read as powerful in control and knows what she wants.
It reads like trauma.
And the fact that that's what's going on in the mind of the person that put all these characters on paper is so disturbing.
And it was also I think a huge.
Massive credit to the women playing these characters who were able to receive this material and transcend it and create th real, three dimensional women in spite of some of the stupid lines they had to say and you know, compromising positions that they had to be put into. Kudos to every single woman on this show who was put into that position truly, I meaned Jane included.
Yeah, and particularly in this episode, it's really incredible to see what Jana does with the material and that she has the wherewithal to lean into some of that manic energy so that you know that there's something else going on here and that whatever's happened to this person, she's essentially learned that this is the only way she's going to get anywhere, and how sad and that she knows she pushed it too far when you see her having a total meltdown about the cheesecake and she gets into it with Brooke and then she calls Milicent because she needs a friend. And the scene with Jana and Lisa is so frickin charming and they are so cute together and so funny, and it really, again is just such a testament that this character can be put in these positions by a writer with no taste and still managed to be, as you just said, joy, so three dimensional, so absolutely lovable. Like I have to go and brate her, and all I want, all I want to see is for Alex to win, Like I really want her to know what she's worth. And technically in this season she's my mortal enemy and I love her and like that's because Jenna's Jenn.
I was surprised Julian walked into the hotel room.
I was too. I was surprised there was especially because they have chemistry.
There was a couple of red flags that he just chose to overlook. Yeah, he by the way, he did a great job in that scene. I think Austin has a sincerity and an earnestness to him that sort of plays to a natural innocence. And I don't want not theevity, but like childlike innocence, you know, and it comes out in this scene where he's sort of just like hoping for the best and like, maybe she made a mistake. She didn't realize she should be wearing pants, you know, anything that a normal adult would be, Like, you're an adult, you know you should be wearing pants. But yeah, he looked the other way to couple red flags. But he had been watching him play the discomfort of that scene. He did such a great job.
Yeah, it was fun to watch.
It's fun too to watch someone like just In in terms of physicality, someone who is as big and handsome as Austin be so physically funny and awkward, you know, like he's an athlete. He's like a really really really good surfer. You know, that's a person who's in control of his body. And when he gets all gangly, kind of like a Great Dane puppy, like when their legs are too long for their body, it just like it almost makes me do a spit take laughing. And I love that he gets to do that because I do think so often on the show, like all you guys were put in the like hot, handsome hero position, and I love when you get to be goofy. I love when the boys, you know, get to be a little uncomfortable, and seeing him play it like that reminded me a little bit of what we got to see in his scenes with Gregory Harrison with his dad, where you see that boy who just wants approval, Like you see this boy who just wants to make movies kind of battling with a man who's like, what the hell is going on? Why is this woman taking off all her clothes? And I just I love that he went there. I love that he didn't try to play it cool. I like that he played it in a full, awkward panic. I thought it was a great choice.
Yeah.
I'm glad they allowed him to morph his character too, because that's not the Julian that we met. That's not the way he started out. Yeah, And in spite of the fact that there was, it took a little time to transition into this maybe real version of Julian what was underneath all of it, because you know, he's had women throw themselves at him.
He's been in that position before, but never while in love, I guess.
Yeah, And so you know, to see the real young young I say, but sort of the bumbly, awkward version of him, is really I'm really glad he landed there and that they let him land there because the other Julian was not interesting.
I don't think the earlier one was just I don't know.
Yeah, we've seen a million of those exactly.
Yes, yeah, Well, it's also interesting that Julian came in as sort of who he was Julian one point zero uh, and and sort of watching him become the like softer goofyar Julian. I'm now realizing we do that with Clay, where Clay comes in and he's kind of mysterious. Maybe is he a bad boy? He's broken, he's wounded, and by like later in this show, I'm my weird flag is flying all the way up there. Mouth has a very un sexy, unleading man arc coming up when they just made him gain weight for an entire season, that was his whole story. It's it's interesting how it was almost like they kind of went, you know what, let's just neuter all of our male characters for like a while. Let's let's have them all lose their edge at the same time, because truly, Julian can't high five, Clay wears weird shirts and has a best friendship with his with his chair.
Yeah, Nathan, Nathan's still a jerk deep down. He's still a manipulator deep down, my parents, let's just discredit all the men.
That's interesting. Did you notice that when you when we were filming it or are you only seeing it in retrospect.
Only in hindsight? Because also Clay's Clay didn't morph. I truly wonder if that was what they had in mind for the character or they were just playing to the fact that in real life. That's kind of like my strikes on him just silly and irreverent because they ended up using a lot of other stuff from my life. But with Julian, Yeah, like the fact he couldn't high five What are we doing?
Why is that a joke?
That is the creative equivalent of just going like, ah, they're all the women are prostitutes. It's like, oh, did you spend five fule seconds brainstorming that idea for all the women in jailer prostitutes? It's sort of like, how do I show how to make him goofy? He doesn't know how to high five guys he's been on earth for thirty five years.
Yeah, we all know.
It's truly so weird. But it's interesting because I don't know if we ever talked about this, Rob. I know the girls and I did, but we got a lot of this sort of inside baseball on some of these decisions at the end of season eight because we didn't think we were coming back for season nine. So some of our allies and the writers are really like, let us in on some stuff. And I know for a fact that our boss wanted to wonderful word choice you use their newd or Julian because Brooke and Julian were going to get married, and by now by that season, our boss had completely lost his mind and he didn't want a bunch of Julian's friends, like hot guys from LA and New York from the film scene coming in for the pre wedding and wedding episodes because he was so territorial about women on set. So that's why Jamie was Julian's best man, because our boss didn't want to bring in a bunch of hot, young single guys to.
Our first four days to compete.
Against him, even though he, you know, has been married since he was twenty.
This is just like how William Shakespeare was so jealous of Macbeth, and that's why he might do all those embarrassing like what are we doing here? What he created this world? How are you threatened to buy it? It's fiction.
Yeah, you're threatened by the characters that you're writing.
Huh. Oh my god. Yeah, because there was a whole Julian had an arc written and they changed it.
So I love the idea, though, it's so it's so perfect. It's so dumb that just because Julian is handsome, that his friends have to be handsome, only pretty, only tens have friends, are friends with tens. Roberts a world in the c W world still though, like he can't have like a you know, like it's insane he can't have his best childhood friends. I just love the fact that like it's either hot dudes or bust It's like, no, man, really, not every producer is hot. You know, they don't have to all be leading men. It's just it's just so silky.
It's all really silly. But it is interesting that that you see all of these shifts beginning, and that we see Mouth sort of go back into the space where he's even him. He's jealous of Milicent, he's jealous of her changing and of her like but I don't know, becoming cool, being a model like the word seems so triggering for him. And I think we're so lucky that we have Lee playing this role because you can see his nervousness and that he's maybe not even so proud of what he's saying. But I wonder why that was. I wonder why that was the choice to sort of shame Millisy. It's character for, you know, wanting to have an adventure.
Yeah, that was really strange.
By the way, the introduction of zero is not a size and this episode is exciting.
I was glad to see.
I had forgotten where that showed up in the series, so that was really speaking of humans coming in all shapes and sizes. That was really fun to see. And this made me think about something too, because it was weird that she was shamed for wanting to have a new adventure, but also the way she's going about it, there's like an insecurity that's being fed that I imagine we all can relate to, like when you're The note I had was what it's like to be invited into something you never thought was possible that you might be invited into and then suddenly you're getting validation. Like it's hard to not get caught up in that and wrap your identity up in that, especially when it's it's a particular nerve of any insecurity or of like blind spot.
That you might have.
Uh, that's tough, that's tough to navigate. Yeah, I didn't have any conclusions. I just it was an observation that I thought, that's pretty human that she would want to get she would really be attracted to that, and why shouldn't she, Like she's beautiful and how put an amazing opportunity, But why is she feeling so guilty about it?
I mean, I feel a lot like Milly in that. When I was invited to join.
The drama podcast, I set you up, I was.
Like, do you want to be in the big leagues? And I thought, here I was. I was going to be, you know, just amateur leagues my whole life. And I was worried if it was going to change me. And it has. I've become a terrible person to.
Be shifted your identity.
It has. It's just merely allowed what has been deep inside me to just fully come out, now, you know. Yeah, I didn't understand I understand her hesitancy completely, because, like you said, it's a new thing. Do I deserve this? Am I gonna get ripped on? Like you don't know what to expect? My note with mouth was mouth, he's a therapist. Like you had a reaction, Go seriously, just go talk to someone for forty five minutes because everything you're doing is just projecting your own bullshit onto her. Like that's your girlfriend, you know who she is. You obviously just have hang ups about what that job is. Go work it out with someone and then be supportive. You know.
Yeah, why wasn't the reaction like whoa, what a bizarre and amazing turn of events.
I hope you have fun?
Yeah? Good? Are you happy about this? Okay? Awesome? Yeah, congratulations?
Yes, one oh one? How do you feel? Don't rain on her parade?
I want to say that chasing me are adorable.
Oh my god.
But the show couldn't help but it because they had to like try to have sex in a plane and of course make a joke about how Steven has sex for less than a minute. But another great line was when they're at the runway and he says, would you like to come up up for a flight? And she says, eh, now, musicians and small planes don't mix. Funny line. But even better is his response, which is, I guess I need to learn how to fly a bigger plane. And I thought, oh, sweet button. Yeah, and they both look they're like so young, sweet Stevie.
They're just so cute together. We rob Do you know the backstory to that was Stephen actually taking flying lessons? I can't remember why. Why is he becoming a pilot?
Yeah?
Super random.
No, that's not something Steven does in real life.
Okay, we're gonna have to phone a friend and ask him.
I can phone a friend.
It's a sweet story for them, and I really love that it. While we're seeing so much sort of toxic content between men and women in this episode, I really love that this man is admitting to his girlfriend, Oh yeah, I'm following my dream because I saw you do it. It's so simple and it's so sweet. Yeah, And I don't know, I just I really love that.
It was about time. Bartending's great if you really are passionate about it.
I'm sure you could build a career off of it. But Chase didn't seem like a passionate bartender. He seemed like an intermittent bartender. Yeah, so I'm glad that he's stepping into something new.
Yeah, give Steven something to do. Also, he's a fun actor to watch. The bar manager thing we've been doing for a whole season now, and his drinks suck. Okay, those are two bits, and we've been doing him for a year, so let's give him something else. One thing this episode did get right was Quinn's aunt, Quinn's cereal. Guys, can we talk about what a gorgeous, delicious bowl of cereal?
She made stuff for Jake Cookie's and milk.
Straight up, she just put whole ass oreos in a bowl and poured milk over it and gave him a spoon. My mind was blown. I was like, how is this not on TikTok? I would devour serial.
I guess what I think it is now because the kids I see this happen when I go to Maria's friend's house and pick her up after ast over whatever, they're sitting around eating in oreos in milk.
It's horrendous.
It's basically like a melted blizzard.
Yes, okay, that makes me feel a little bit better.
Which is perhaps my favorite ice cream. But yeah, it's a lot.
It's a deconstructed blizzard. Yeah, a pretentiou chef would call.
It exactly at a molecular gastronomy restaurant. I think there's yes. I think there's definitely an honorable mention for the cookie cereal, and I would honestly like to give one because I know we're coming to the end of time to Dan and Rachel, Rachel coming with that tabloid. They were in so little of the episode because this was such a big episode for the whole ensemble, but those scenes with two of them, with the way they're plotting, and then when Paul stays on the phone after James hangs up on him and pretends he's talking to his son. Oh, it was all just so so good and it makes you real eyes because it sort of triggered for me, Oh, I remember where this goes. I don't want to spoil anything for the audience, but when he gets rejected by his son and then he goes to Renee to plot, you just go, oh, this is going to be terrible, and my god, it's a good device.
I loved it. It's a good advice.
That also is my honorable mention, but more specifically Dan saying, I'm not seeing the licorice whips.
Okay, this is my question I had for you all. Is this something because the licorice whips the licorice ropes were very jarring for me. Is this a thing? Is to do Dan in licorice ropes have a history in the show.
So random, so completely random.
I don't know what it came from, but I do know that it was his idea at the end of the episode to be chewing on a licorice whip, because I think they just wrote the line in and of course Paul was like, well, how do we wrap the loop up on the story?
You know, excellent writer and director that He was like, yeah, we can't. You can't have a gun on.
Stage and I'll have to go off, you know at the end of it too, like where's my liquorage?
So good?
I thought that was really hilarious.
That's my fun mentioned when he says to the PA at the top of the episode, he goes, where the where the liquorice? Is it liquorice whip or liquorish licorice rope? Is it? Wi? Oh?
I thought it was liquorice whips.
That's what let's call it that he says where the liquorice whips, and the PA goes, Oh, I'm sorry, I must have forgotten them. He makes the most uncomfortable choice where he leans. He's clearly pissed, but then he's not pissed. He decides to lean in and just whispers, I forgive you. I'm like, guy, be angry at me, because whatever this is is uncomfortable. Your forgiveness makes me want to take a shower. Yeah, good.
That that's That's a line I want on a T shirt.
I forget of you or licorice whips.
That is funny, Rob, Your forgiveness makes me want to take a shower.
That is a class line.
We have a listener question from Kat. She asks, what is one lesson you learned from portraying your character that has stuck with you in real life? Perhaps it's about snacks. I don't know.
Man's such a good question.
It just requires so much proximity to the moment, and I'm so far away from it years later.
I don't know. I might if you think about this for a second, you want anything at the ready?
Yeah?
What stands out to me? Honestly, and it's not necessarily about the whole course of our nine years, but in this episode, in particular, when Millie runs in to work apologizing for being late and says, please don't fire me, and then you know, I throw my arms around her and basically pick her up, and then she says, please don't have sex with me. Like, I loved the comedy for Lisa. But one of the things I really like that we get to see in Brook as an adult that I'm really passionate about my life is that it's it's the running towards celebrating your friends, running towards saying you might not see yourself this way, but I do that. That is something that is like the joy of my life is to celebrate my friendships and to brag about my friends, and to big up my friends, and to like, you know, be in their comments, being like you look beautiful, you're so hot, you're so smart, whatever. It is, Like, I love to cheerlead the people in my life that are doing amazing things. And I really love that for all of the flaws of our show, our characters got to do a lot of that for each other too, Like we were each other biggest fans. And I'm proud of modeling that I'm not so proud of like modeling everybody getting naked everywhere, But I'm really proud of that.
That's true. That is a quality that you possess. I was always kind of uncomfortable with that. I think I grew up feeling a lot like my voice didn't matter, like what I had, any encouragement I had to offer, whatever I had to say, it didn't really matter.
So I didn't know.
I just didn't say it very often.
And it's been as a mom, I've learned a lot about how important it is to I still feel weird about doing it. Like I'll go to a baseball game and I'm cheering, and I'm like, it is so uncomfortable in my body for to shout out things that I don't even really understand what I'm saying. But I'm like, I know I'm saying something and I'm cheering the team, but like I feel awkward, like a faker, But I want to be an encourager.
I just wasn't really taught how.
But I have noticed that about you, and I've learned that from you too, and from yeah, from Brook, That's so true, Like we really all did that's a great answer. Sorry to babble, it just made me think I still don't have an answer, corop.
It is it's such a it's a great quality of your sof and I think it's just a it's a great it's an attractive quality in general. I mean I have learned as an adult like life is a team sport. Yeah, so when someone in my community has a win, that's a team win. Yeah, and we celebrate that together. You know. It's like the old adage, a joy shared is doubled, a burden shared is have And that's what I've found, you know, because for so long I was trying to do it as a solo sport, and it was like it's just so much harder that way, where it's like if we celebrate each other, if we share our troubles, everything is just so much easier and also more enjoyable.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, that's great.
I would say for Clay it would just be embracing who you are, because I think, especially as we get on in the series, we really see Clay become very comfortable and owning who he is and really letting his sort of freak flag fly high. And that's something that as I've gotten older in life. It's like I used to be so concerned with curating everyone's experience of me and what everyone thought of me. And there's a certain comfort in like I've found my person, I've got my family, Like, respectfully, I don't give a fuck. I'm just gonna do me and my people are gonna get it and be into it, and that's gonna be okay. I don't have to bat a thousand and making new friends every day.
Yeah, that's so refreshing.
I feel like Haley's sense of her sense of loyalty and determination to see the best in people and keep believing in that.
Was that had to have been a really healthy Actually I don't know if it was healthy at the time, but.
Probably getting it in your muscle memory, you know, Like that's what the we've talked about this the body keeps the score, and how your body doesn't know the difference when you're acting, and.
How that's true the good things too.
I think that's true for when you show up and keep portraying someone who is persistent in their loyalty and in their belief in the best in people. I think that definitely helped stick with me in times when I wasn't sure if I could trust, I wasn't sure how to trust, and not letting go of that optimism, because when you've really been run over and life has really kicked your ass, the easiest thing to do in the moment is to just close off and.
Be like you know what, never mind, like none of you get in. I'm not letting anybody in. I'm done.
I'll just be by myself and to start to like let the cracks in and let the light in and know that you just can't live your life that way. You can't live your life walking around guarding yourself from everyone though trusted can be a really hard thing. I think Haley was really good at that, and I think that got into my muscle memory probably really helped me when I needed it to be able to open up more.
Yeah, I love That's what I have to say. That's a good question, it was, thanks Kat.
Should we spin a wheel?
Kids?
Wheel?
I don't want to answer this.
Most likely to not shower for a week.
It's this is an absolute no.
No, that's rough.
Can I submit an answer though for consideration?
Sure?
Dan Scott when he hit rock bottom? Yeah, okay, he's living in a hotel room just drinking himself to death. I would buy that.
Okay, yeah, Tuche, I have been there. I have been in a depressive state. I don't know if I lasted a week, but it might have come close. You just can't function. I could see that. I'll take the I'll take the hit on that one, not just out of like a forgetting or neglect.
Never, I wouldn't answer that.
I don't.
I don't think I actually know anyone that would fit the bill anyway.
Yeah, I'm with you, Joy, I've I've I have battled depression. I've been in tough places. I listened, Hijieman, I've been the top of my to do list, but that that got.
Done exactly know.
I never I've never made it a full week.
Y Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I've made a full week.
Well the ticket, Especially when you're depressed, taking a shower actually can make you feel a lot better.
Yes, you don't ever step out of a hot shower going I wish i'd done that, you know. It's not like having a cigarette or something. It's like I used to have a shower that was a waste of time.
Never, not once.
Not once, it's so good.
Well, what episode do we have next?
Guys?
Let's see all right, friends, Next week we are up with season seven, episode six, Deep Ocean Vast see m alrighty sounds foreboding.
Thanks for joining us. Everybody can't wait to talk to you. Then, hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's ot.
H or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
See you next time.
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