Between Lucas’ return, Haley’s truth, Brooke’s scheme, Dan’s charges and Deb’s escape there was a lot to unpack in this episode. But have no fear because Hilarie, Sophia and Joy were up for the challenge (and then some!) as they go Monday Morning Quarterback on one of the most action-packed episodes of OTH!
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about that high school drama, Girl drama, girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl Cheering for the drama, Queen's Girl Fashion. But you're tough, girl. You can sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama drawn MC, Queen's Drama, Queen's al Right, guys, welcome to the show. We're gonna blame Michael Lang. No, I'm kidding. This was this script was The script was a lot um and so we're just gonna dig in right. Two thousand seven. This was a whopper. Uh. Following his heart attack, Lucas returns to school, hoping to rekindle his romance with Peyton. Haley learns that Nathan was responsible for her accident. Brooke and Rachel hatch a plan to steal the next calculus exam, while Dan faces murder charges and de breaks out of rehab Lots of criminality. Wait, if you had never seen this show before and you didn't know anything about it, you just read that synopsis, what do you think I think I would have skipped right on by honestly though, it's like none of this makes sense. It's so out there. This is one of those confusing episodes. Also, sometimes I feel like the titles are taunting us, like everything in its right place. I'm like, listen of this episode was in the right place, and the other is very questionable. I agree, But like some of the scenes I thought were so great. I mean, listen this, this storyline. You know that you guys are going through joy as Nathan and Haley is extreme, and yet you two ground it, you make it work. There's I think, great comedy for me and Neil. I loved the mouth and gig stuff, and then like there are something but even wait a second, because even the flashback again as Lucas is like beginning to find I like them the awareness. I loved the flashback with him and Keith again. I love trying to break out of rehab. Just kiss Barbara is so great. So much of it was so funny, and then and then some of it. I don't know what was it that word does so much? Was it just the dialogue? I had a really hard time watching Peyton and Lucas kiss, and I don't know why. I just said I had the reaction of it. I felt like I was watching my siblings make out or like my family kiss. I was like my hands up, like I can't the internet. So you're both very attractive people, You're hot, and you're good kissers. I don't know why I suddenly had that reaction. I think I just know you guys all too well, and it just brings out and there are going to be some people that are like, yes, with years for you drama queens to finally talk about that, disn't it took us four seasons to get here. But I don't know. It is kind of funny, isn't it, Because when you know people so well, like at this point, we'd spent what like fifteen thousand hours together or something insane, and you just go, I can't, I can't, I can't. Like I felt that way when you guys came to play. I can't remember what the relationship was at the moment, but when you all came to play on Good Sam Like, I feel like it was right around when Edwin and I had to kiss on your show for the first time, and I was like, I literally remember me I did the first day and I got real close to his face and I went looking. I'm like, I just started laughing. I was like, you're my friend's boyfriend. Like, I know, this is our job, but I hang out with you every day and on the weekends we like go and eat crazy street food and like suddenly I'm supposed to be romantic with you and I can't do It's weird. That's weird. It's so weird. It's so funny with your friends and who can you be sexy with? Right? Okay, this episode, it's not like there was anything wrong on with it was just it was clunky. Everything was not in its right place. It was. It was definitely a messy. Yeah, but it's an interesting thing too to watch it and have moments where we're going, oh, well, that that was ridiculous, Like the fact that you had to say, now I know why they call it true love, enjoy. You did it in a way that work. I said, thank you for telling me the truth. That's what it is. Now I know why they call it true up. Did you tell when you read that in the script? Yes, it's so cool. I think In fact, if I know myself, I delivered it um tongue in cheek, you know, like playing with him like no, I know why they call it true love, you know, trying to make it like obviously this is the lamest joke ever, so I'll lean into it. And I'm sure it was one of those where he was like, just give me one that's sincere we have the other ones, you know, and then they used that one. But you know you did make it so sweet and yeah, I mean for the folks at home, Hillary literally started cackling. I think I gasp. You know that when you read a line like that on the page, you're like, are these people working with me? Like is this the thing I'm supposed to say? And you had that and by the way, James had that in this episode, the amount of exposition he had to give you when he like ran you through the whole Dante story in top speed, and he made he managed to make it emotional and honest. And yeah, Hillary, I just keep thinking back to you years ago being like, imagine, imagine good writing, because they just they have to get you to like fill a gap. And I think it because I think it was a filler episode because the last one was Christmas. Yes, and that's what it was. It was like, let's just remind everybody's just warm up the kettle. Let's remind everybody who we all are and what just happened and where we are, and then maybe the next episode is really going to be something better. Yeah, I wonder if, like in the next episode Lucas is Keith flashback will go a step farther and he'll see Dan or like when when something will be revealed? But you're right, it is a catchup episode, even even all the headlines being on Dan's wall when Karen sees them. That's been happening all season with Karen. I like how Karen and Dan both just know how to show up exactly where people are all the time. Guys, everything on our show is being repeated, right. It's like, didn't Nathan have the flashback storyline for a while there, and now Lucas has that storyline well? And by the way, now, much like Brooke last season, Haley is looking at Nathan saying you have to let me in all the way in, and Brooks sobbed to Lucas and was like, why would you ever let me all the way in? And it's like we we are all going through these similar things, aren't way, Okay? I know we we say that this lazy writing and bubble. There's a lot of that, and there there is sometimes, But you know, what I'm realizing too, is we're comparing this to the luxury that a lot of people have now with a series, whole series being picked up for a season, or with cable where it's only nine episodes or thirteen and then you know, you you know, you know pretty much right away if the show is popular, and then you know you're you're gonna keep going for a long time, and so they're able to stretch out those storylines. Um. I think with us, because we were constantly on the bubble, we were constantly being told, oh, you're you're about to be canceled, You're about to be canceled. I don't know that they really could plan long term, long game storylines the way that we would love to see. And because there was no streaming, you couldn't like binge four episodes in a row. You had to catch people up every week, and if they'd missed the week before, you had to do enough repetition that if they'd missed episode ten, episode eleven would make sense. You know. It was just that, you're right, it was a very different landscape, and I think a lot was also repeated because we weren't only doing twelve episodes. It couldn't trim the fat you needed to fill twenty two hours. Which if they knew that there was going to not going to be a cancelation at any given moment, maybe they would have felt the freedom to stretch things out a little bit longer. But people were writing differently back then too, and especially for teen shows. It's just the trend wasn't there yet. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. This is related to nothing, but it's the fourth thing written down on my notes and in all caps. It just because all three of us said it a little bit of scruff. Yeah, none of it was believable, Like like whoever wrote this episode did not use her Google machine because with this lawyer comes in, he's like, you're being charged with second degree murder and the trial is going to be in like a couple of weeks. And I was like, on what planet? Like you brought in jail for years before you get a trial. That's how they make all their money, the court systems. Every they make you come back all the time, and every time you come back you have to file with a payment. But once they get you in that system, they don't let you go. Come on, But why does Dan Scott have a cell by himself? Like? How much more interesting would it have been if he was in there with Like could have changed his perspective on what tree Hill really needed as mayor. That would be somebody he had screwed over once. Maybe nobody wanted to pay for that. The whole season of Dan Scott in jail thrilling. Yeah, having to navigate jail politics. What if Dan Scott was in jail with psycho Deic, what if they're sharing as they're both violent offenders? Would have been great? Don't don't again? You know I I thought that Paul was playing all of this really beautifully. The culmination of the of the guilt Dan carries for Keith when Nathan looks at him and says, you're not guilty of murder, and Dan says, I have since to pay for I belong here, this um, this misdirect that we get to witness as the audience who knows all the secrets and knowing that the boys don't know yet, and that Nathan is really seeing his father um changing, even even when he cracks a joke about how you know your oh yeah, your approval rating went up and and and Paul is so plaintive and says, you know, yours is the only one I care about. It's and you can see the shock on James's face. He's kind of like, uh, yeah, we're different, and you believe that there's this potential for Dan to change. Karen sees him differently. She says, I saw someone I used to know different, and we know and and they don't know. It's such a fun place to be in as an audience member, to know a secret and to watch how it's you know, hanging around in the pinball machine of the world of the show. I like this part. Did you guys think that Dan and Karen were going to kiss? Like, oh my god, I did, And I was very upset. But like back when we were filming, like do you remember the panic that we felt as cast members, like you're not going to do that, are you? Like I let thought that our writers were setting them up to like get down, Yeah, that's yeah, well, and they wanted you to believe it. They wanted you to believe that there might be the redemption and and then they got to call it out in the last episode in this you know, wonderful life universe with Keith, like you said it last week, Keith saying, you don't get to come in here with my woman and my kid and and we don't know what's going to happen. It's it's a really it's a great amount of suspense that they've created for us. I'm down for a redemptive storyline anytime, but I needed to really be realistic and payoff. And that's where the long game storyline comes in, where you get to really walk through somebody's journey of growth and healing and pain and struggle and like coming out the other side of that. And then that would be an interesting storyline for me. But not this fast. It can't be this fast. And I I don't want to see it he stayed in office, Yes, I don't want to see it be the redemption. You know, the woman changes him, he gets her and then he's different, Like, no, he has as a person. He's got to change as a person. And I think that's why it's triggering for us and upsetting for us to watch it is We're like, no, no, no, no, don't you put Karen with that guy. He's already hurt her, he's hurt deb he's hurt so many people. We want him to do the work. But by the way, that means our writers are doing a great job because they're making us upset and they're making us worry, and and that's that's part of the drama of TV, right, So I you know, they want to be clear that I don't want them to make out, but I'm loving the suspense because when she helped him, I thought she was going to kiss him, and I didn't like it. All They underutilized Moira this season, well just this season. Really, it's like she just kind of shows up to offer advice. But this is an OSCAR nominated actress. She is so talented, she's so capable, and I don't know what she had to do to manipu laid herself into this storyline so that, you know, everything made sense for her, that Karen would be involving herself again with Dan and all that, but I sure would love to have seen it. Well, her partner is dead, you know, like the love of her life is dead. Her son just had a heart attack, the girl that she's raised, you know, it's like her son's best friend is going through all of this trauma and like, you know, like there's a lot of fodder for a Karen's storyline. But the only thing that our writers know to do with her because she's not having sex with anyone. This is what I was saying, yes, is they just have her react, you know, do ide like what's going on here? What's going on here? What's going on here? And now I'm say, you know, like there's not If I were Karen, I would go full Michael Douglas and what is that movie he does Falling Down or whatever where he just like loses his mind. If I were Karen, I would go full falling Down and just be like, you know what, I'm gonna burn trick down, you know what. I'm good. You know, she's lost everything and and the pregnancy hormones have the you know, potential maker beneff. I mean, the fact that she is pregnant with her dead lover's child is an insane thing to be struggling with, and I wish that they had let us see more of that for her. I will say. The interesting thing that I think makes you catch your breath when you watch these scenes between Dan and Karen is in on his Redemption tour. He is trying to show up for her. You know, don't forget that he just made deb sign trick back over to her so she would have a lifeline business back of a much larger income. You know, he is he is setting up a safer container for her. And I think the reason it feels so icky to watch as an audience is because we know he's the reason she's not safe in the first place, but she doesn't know yet. She thinks that whatever is happening with Nathan and Haley, you know, maybe he's changing, maybe he's seeing the ability to do it over again differently. But it's like it's just the husband who's cheating on his wife but keeps bringing his wife flowers every day because and she's just like, oh, he loves me. He's just like feeling It's no because he's feeling guilty. It's like, so such a cliche. I want to talk about the Nathan and Haley of it all. This is something that our show does that bugs me. Is and maybe it's because Peyton has been targeted for this, but we'll have characters that come clean, right that's saying, Hey, I've been carrying this. I want to tell you the truth, and then the people close to them get mad at them and say why didn't you talk at the truth, And it's like, well I just just did. Yeah. It makes me not because in real life, it's like it takes a second to build up the moxie to tell people the truth, and then the idea that you get mad at them for not telling the truth. Am I the only know? I'm thinking about it as you're saying it again, I think I've I've gotten like when somebody has done that to me. Yeah, I don't really get upset. Like at the past. It's like, okay, well let's deal with the problem we have right now. I'm not going to harp on why didn't you unless it was a really long time ago. Well I guess Look, I get it because when you're going through something to your point, you know that it can take time to process it, to figure out what the language is, you know, especially like as a person with anxiety who very much learned to deal with everything alone, it takes an unlearning as an adult to be vocal as something is happening rather than once I've figured it out. But that's also my job as a person, so that I can be in relationship with other people. It's literally my job as by saying that I practiced this, okay, but I think that it's It's interesting because when you are on the receiving end of information and you feel like someone you love and trust has withheld from you, it can be very painful. I understand why Haley is like, why wouldn't you tell me what was going on? And I understand that Nathan was trying his best. He needed a minute. He didn't want to admit failure. He his ultimate fear is to tell the woman he's trying to keep safe that he doesn't know how to keep her safe. Like, I sympathize with it, but the reality is that it's very easy for us to look at things as black and white, but when there are things were involved in, we know that everything is shades of gray and the targets are moving all the time. And I don't know, I agree that the reaction of why didn't you tell me immediately feels very reductive in black and white. I like that she didn't yell, though, and they scripted it like I can't remember. I mean, I guess they would have known me well enough by then to know. I just like that. It wasn't a fit girl. The quiet fury of Haley just leaning back on the pillows, like I can't even look at you. That I literally wrote down. I was like, I need to learn that move. You will one day I'm going to look away cut so deep because so deep. Oh that's my dad and me. That is fully my dad. I grew up in like my mom was always the sort of the loud emotional one and my dad was the quiet emotional one. And oh boy, I just remember, like I remember one day when I was I wouldn't go to I wouldn't wake up. My mom would come in my room like six times, why cat, why cat? Whycat? Yea god, where did you wake up? And I was like not going to do it. My dad walked into I just heard my bedroom door open and it was his footsteps, and all of a sudden, I was covered in cold water. I opened my eyes and he had a blender in his hand. He had just poured a blenderful of cold water. And he looked at me and he goes, get up. Oh my god. He wasn't mad at me. He wasn't. It was just like, oh no, no, we're not doing this wake up and that's the way. So I think I got that from him because I don't pour water on my daughter to wake her up, but I do, but I do, but I could if I wanted to, But she knows that I'm like not looking around. So I like the quiet fury as well. But sorry, we got off track. Um, Haley, I do like that she went to Lucas's because I understand as a teenage girl. Still she's a teenage girl and hormonal because she's pregnant and uh and hormonal, she's a teenager and yeah, to feel like you the person that God and she's in this cast and the whole reason why, Yeah, it made sense to me that she would have been like, you know, I just need a minute. I'm gonna totally makes sense. By the way, if this happened now now you as a teenager, not as a pregnant person, I would be like, what the is going on? Yeah? What the actual and and and the work you do to like see from other people's perspective, and you know, come to a conversation as your highest self matters. But I absolutely think her her hurt and feeling of betrayal was justified. I like what I like when I think both people are right, That to me is a good story. I see this as like a livable offense, right, not because not because he lied I means zero to me because he didn't really lie. He just omitted. You know, the thing that freaks me out, like if I'm in Haley shoes, is that you make that choices and I'm getting ready to raise a child with you, and you consistently make bad choices. And you might be tall and have a nice face, But does he consistently make bad choices? What are some of the other ones that he's made? Traded the car for the bike, which was stupid. Ok He's just but he's like, where's the dumb kid? And then where's the character flaw? He drove into a wall? Right? Okay, now, yes, to revisit the whole like he's on suicide watch issue. Yes, he is still making choices stable in or I would want to raise a child with. But see this crux of that conversation, right is if we were looking at just a guy with Nathan's kind of rap sheet of behavior on paper, we would all be like black and white. No, absolutely not pass But because we know him and we're attached, and we're emotional, We go is he so bad? And and and you and you understand that things come from pain, and that things come from lack of experience, and that things come from you know, the reality of when you're trying your best and you don't have a good or a bad decision to choose from. You have a bad decision and the worst decision to choose from. Like, and that's where the humanity is. And I think that's why I really like it, because the truth be told, if somebody wrote down on a piece of paper all the choices that we made and put our life down on paper and handed it over to somebody, they'd be like, uh no, sir, Joy, that's what the tabloids are. That's why they've been so mean to us for twenty years. Well, hey, listen all but you know what I mean. Like, there's a humanity element, but then there is also like deep character flaws. So I think finding the line is hard. Pleasing exactly into your line, Like what Haley says, She's like, why is it so much easier to forgive a stranger than someone that you love? Yes, and you know, a stranger is just kind of this hand, like they're an imaginary thing that you can impart morals on and you can create whatever fairy tale you need to create in order to make sense of things. But a real person, it's like it costs you something to forgive someone that is close to you, like a real wound. If it's just like, if it doesn't, oh, I forgive you, Okay, then we never have to interact again stranger. Well, and to your point, when you can impart morals onto a stranger like Hayley does with Dante, she says he was a bookie, but he was someone's child. You know, he was a criminal, but he had parents and and when it's someone you love and you have deep relationship with, it can be so much harder to say. I have to accept your truth as true for you, I have to believe that you were doing the best you could, and I have to hold true at the same time that your best really hurt me, your best really hurt me. How do you honor your pain and someone else's struggle at the same time. That takes so much more complexity, vulnerability, humility, honesty than it does to go, Yeah, I know that guy might have been a bad guy, but what if his mom was nice, Like, that's so much easier. Could you get to imagine that, Oh, your best really hurt it's the hardest. Yeah, it's sore. End when you're married, Like, that's a marriage. When your marriage partner, your best really hurt me, that's so hard to process and deal with. Yeah, what do you do? And you know, we talk about what we learned, and and as you age and you learn things we talked about this last week. You have much clearer perspective. You have like a better spidy sense when someone's motivations aren't good. But you do lose some of that innocence that allows you to be so purely in love, so enormously trusting, And it can be really difficult two carry truth, reality, experience failure inside of the container you share with the person that you love the most. The name of your next podcast is going to be Containers Obtainers, everything but trainer. But yeah, like it. How do you maintain loving someone so purely when they've also hurt you? It sounds like struggle this episode, Everyone who is a little bit that's a nice segue. Everybody leaves um All right, Well, look I'm just gonna address the d ms that I get where girls are like you, you defend Jake and you defend Nathan, and nothing Lucas does is good enough. And here's what I'm going to tell you. He looked really handsome in this episod and did he said some very sweeping things and we missed a lot. It was grand gesture here. But here's the thing that's crazy. Why are people yelling at you about it just hasn't happened to your character yet? Because thus far and Peyton f Lucas and Peyton have been a miss He's been a cheater, He's he We've talked about how he has, you know, struggled and Joy. You know, I don't remember what episode it was, but you were like, yeah, like teenage boys don't know how to make good decisions. Like that's okay, guys, it's the character arc. They don't get together till season four, So how were we supposed to talk about their great relationship in season three? Well? I love that in two episodes he went from saying, oh I love Joy was like he sounds like Daniel J. Lewis in this episode of the Mohicans, We'll find you my heart attack. No matter what happens no matter where you go, no matter what comes between us. I shall ride through heaven and hell to find you. Yes, and I like it. Um. Peyton, however, needed a pause button. I because we watched We watched the episode. I have zero recollection of this, um because Peyton's being very standofficed with him. And then you know the second scene the Peyton Lucas had together, She's like like, p d A, Like if you could just stop. I know that I've been pursuing you for so long. Now don't kiss me in front of people. That made me cackle like that was very funny. That was also just such a good window into you, Like that's you totally. I love you. Don't touch me. Yeah, I really love you so much, but don't. Anytime Jeff and I are on a red carpet, you know, they take pictures and they're like now kiss kiss and I was looking at me and I'm like, are we going to do that? And He's like, yeah, we're going to do that, And I just always maybe I am Peyton Sawyer where I'm like, You're like, I don't want to where do I put my nose? I don't know. I'm mad at these writers for the way they handled this, Peyton and Lucas finally coming back together, Like this is a storyline We've been waiting for for four seasons. I've cried and the fans, the fans have been waiting. It's like building up, building up, and it's like it's over in one second with some confetti and now they're like, oh, boyfriend, girlfriend, a couple of little issues and like, oh it's cute, Like where is the long I want to see the longing? I want to see the build up of like you telling him and then him wanting desperately wanted to tell you, but he's too wrapped up with trying to solve this. You know, his uncle just got murdered and he woke up in his heart attack, and he's like, how do I tell her? What if I leave her? Like? What if something happens to me? I can't tell her that I love her back. Everybody leaves her. And so now there's another thing that's in between them, like why didn't you have to go to see a cardiologist to make sure his heart was going to be okay? And she wants to go and he says no because he's like, if I get bad news. I can't get it in front of her, Like there could have been we Yes, we could have really drawn out the like longing, the epic romance of this like everything he said I loved and I wanted to hear it, but I wanted to hear it with like I wanted to hear it after a battle of like trying to get to each other through all the things that they are in the way, and then finally they get to each other and the light is you know, streaming the way cameras catch sunlight, and you're like outside and it's just something that's so beautiful, like the little sun glare on you. And he finally says it all and it's just music, is there? It is Haley, you know switch foot song in the rain, Like, yeah, we needed that on that for these two, Yes, because their love story is the drawn out. It's it's the years of longing and the wrong partners and the stuff. It's the notebook. But we don't get the kiss on the dock, and I feel robbed. No, I just sat at his bedside in the hospital during this coma. He opens his eyes and then there's like a time jump and it's like I didn't see him for a whole yere you in school? Bad girlfriend? No listen, Okay, but to that point, I do feel robbed now that you've brought it up. Where is my switch Foot song? Like, yeah, yeah, what is the song that would have played in the scene that I'm not cool enough to know Peyton Lucas's music? You tell me, because the first song that came to mind as you're talking about him, I'm sitting here nod my head, going yeah, yeah, that's fat and in my head the song that plays with Lucas and Peyton finally kiss with that spot of sunlight you described a flare in the lens from the darkness, even a thing called love just I believe it. Oh my god, isn't that Crane? No, that's this man. It is during our show and it was such a such it feels too fast. No, that's what But that's what it needs to be. It needs to be like like fast. Chad's wearing all these emo clothes and the wristband and the eyeliner. We need an emo pop post. Like I'm trying to think about what was out in two thousand seven. I don't know why, Like Massy Stars coming to mind for me. I mean that was the late nineties, but Mazi Star did the Twilight series come out then? Because I'm listening to it then, Mazie Star was on the Empire Record soundtrack. Maybe that's why, because it feels so nostalgic to oh yeah, because it was Liz Fair. What was that Fade into You was the Mazzy Star song? Yeah, like I want something emo and romantic. Oh, I'm looking at the Billboard top charts in two thousand seven, we're gonna find what do we got? I mean, it's all for delicious and like, hey, it's definitely not that is not the song. But if someone could cut it together just for our enjoyment, please the scene we always wanted the guys, it got rushed. You know what I wrote down when Chillary, when you said it's just so sweeping, I wrote that down, and then under it, I wrote, it's a grand gesture on steroids. They've pumped up. They've pumped it up too fast and and weirdly it kind of steals the payoff from us. And we've been waiting four years for this because it's always been Tori it. It's been bad. It's been affairs that Alicia Keys song came out, which one no, definitely no one. No. Maybe you guys didn't get a song because we spend all our money on Led Zeppelin in the car crash last year that we're still we're still making up for lost time. But you deserved one. Well. I like Peyton's point, Like, to be fair, I don't. I don't think it necessarily understood what she was saying when we were kids of like, no, listen, everyone leaves, So I'm having serious problems attaching to people. I definitely feel that at this age, like I really limit who I interact with on a daily basis because I everybody dies, you know, And so it's weird to evolve into Peyton as an older woman. Um, but I I like that that was her trajectory, and I like that this little boy is trying desperately to get her to calm down, and the only way he could do it is with his tongue. You know what I like though, because to your point, you wouldn't have had the language then you know she's trying to say this thing. But now you are at your age able to offer the perspective in a clearer way, can relate to it more clearly. I like that they're both a little fumbly with it because they are kids, and I love that the only way he knows how to explain it to you is to say, but I came back for you. And it hints at that idea that he had an experience in that in between that he had, you know, something happened. He's told you about Keith, and he's saying, no, I chose this, I chose, I chose life. I chose to be here. And and there's something I think, you know, for as imperfect or you know, unclear as it might feel, this idea that he gets to look at her and say like, you're You're the reason I want to be here. That's beautiful. I get it. It's really beautiful, and I think it maybe it hits deeper for me in that moment, and even hearing you talk about loss now because earlier in the script, when you guys are on the quad and he's talking about the experience with Keith, you know, Peyton says that she feels like her mom and Ellie contact her from the other side. And then the lightness in the scene is I think of dreams as emails for ghosts. I loved that. I loved that. It was so nice to see them bond over this thing and so interesting because we talked about it last week that it comes in this week. I know, was that weird? But that would have been That would have been a fun relationship building to am conversation. Remember staying up so late with the person you had a crush on and just like talking for hours and hours and hours on the phone in high school, like that phase where it's like, okay, we've admitted we like each other, now we have to survey. Let's tell each other every everything. Oh it's so romantic and sweet. Um. Well, between all these like heavy heavy storyline, Haley is fighting for life on crutches, trying at Karen's house, Peyton's being a weirdo, there's Brooke and Rachel in so like, I need to get to that part of the episode because that the most entertaining thing on camera. I loved it so much. And the fact, and you said it, the fact that Danil and I look like twins in this whole episode, whole episode. Our outfits are the same, our jackets are the same, our hair is the same. I love it, and god, I just wanted more and more and more of it. It's so fun. It's so fun and you guys are different enough that it doesn't feel competitive on camera, like I'm not. It doesn't feel like a carbon copy. Like you guys such different personalities, you're really complimenting each other. It's just so And it's interesting that these two girls, you know, who have been judged and who have these really strong identities in their own rights, can kind of say the things to each other that if anyone else said it it would be so offensive. When they do it, it's so funny, like when Shelley the clean teen says, you know, our doors are always open, and Brooks says, just like Rachel's legs. But it's like, weirdly, it feels like a it's like an inside joke for her and Rachel. It's not a dig. And you know Rachel saying yesterday you were a slut who was bad enough thing. Today you're a virgin with an a funny. It's so funny to me. I loved watching you two came around the corner in those cats suits and I just died with the belts jingle, jingle of the belt to defeat the purpose of being stealthy. It is so funny, those little sixties and that's what we did. We found those like kind of vintage inspired belts and the go go boots I I forgot. I mean, I have obviously such a sense memory of doing that. Being in the school with Danielle. You know how funny it was to run into Principal Turner, like the comedy of that I remember, but I forgot some of the physicality and I almost choked on my coffee when I say, Brooke, it's weird to talk about myself in the third person, but like as Brooke, when I stand up in the cats suit and just start pawing at my whole body looking for a pocket, I was like, oh my god, we don't have pockets. Like I forgot about that. Having to put the test in my boot was such a It was such a pleasant surprise, so fun I love when it. Well, you guys are climbing, climbing through the school and deb is climbing out of rehab in her own version of a black cat suit. This whole time I was like, is rehab Like, man, I'm confused how they can keep an adult unless it's That was a gray little surprise at the end. Also, that slow fall for Barbara repelling down the side of the building and then winding up with her feet in the air stuck was so freaking funny. And yeah, the cutting from Brooke and Rachel to a deb and all these women sneaking around and being so bad at it was gorgeous love. And when Prince the principal like confronted you guys, just the look on your faces, like, oh, why are we here? Also, why was clean teen's meeting that late at school? I hated the cleanteing storyline so much. I hated it so much always, But I'm glad that he rings and the promise that he gross. It's just so like, hell, I know that there was an element of this that was reality for you in school, but it went so camp and it's just annoyed me. It's like, I know a lot of Christian kids who were cool and yes, they wanted to be virgins until they got married. They had a particular worldview that they subscribed to have worked for them. That's great, but they weren't like weirdos. You know they were, but hey, I mean we um no, I was in I mean obviously I started clean teams just with my pack of friends at parties. But it wasn't just about virginity. Was like we also didn't smoke and we didn't drink, and it was like clean across the board. There was this there was a scene in d C that was like the straight Edge scene and so this was like straight edge light, very light um. And we also had Fellowship of Christian Athletes and that was where like the football players who were good boys went. I went to prom with the president a Fellowship of Christian Athletes. He was so hot and so it was like not not weirdos. It was like the captain of the football team and you know, like the girls on the volleyball squad, and it was kind of this cross section of the school that just needed to I don't know, but it's so hanging fruit to tell the story this way, like there are so why are kids like this always represented in media like corny weirdos? Well? And what I have an issue with it goes farther than that, is why, because let's not forget we were in the early odds. We were in the era where like Britney Spears was being accosted by Jainists about for virginity that's why Jessica the virginity or the sexual behavior of teenage girls at all at all? Why are we talking to them about this, Like it's none of our business, it's not appropriate. And so it's so crazy because I'm watching that scene where Rachel's like, well we can still brook ourselves, right and chill. He's like, oh yeah, totally do it all the time. I just got like a flash to like the things everyone shall remain nameless. Don't worry if my home listening to this. I know they're scared, but like the things to tell me they were doing to not have sex, I'm just like, oh my god, now it totally defeats they Yeah, but you're right. Just the policing and the monitoring of girls sex like sexual growth in behavior as teenagers is so creepy. It's so creepy. And this was a thing like after our show too, because I remember like purity rings were a big deal. Yeah I never had one, and I was like there, like I was so swar same same but I never had a purity ring. But I did have a subscription to Brio magazine. Alright, I forgot it was like a Christian Christian girls teen magazine, Like if you weren't allowed to get y Am or Cosmo, Girl, you've got Brio from your grandmother. Christmas. God, you're pulling these rabbits is out. I forgot about bees and girl. There was an abstinence poster that came as like a pull out from Brio magazine that I definitely had on my wall until I was fifty, and then we moved and I was like, I don't think I'm gonna put it back up to stay true. But so when like the Jonas brothers came along and like Miley, like a Hannah Montana was on TV and they made such a big deal out of the promise rings and the abstinence rings that those kids were all wearing. That was such a big storyline, like all these star children were promised rings. And at that point we were much older, and I just remember being like, oh, they're still doing that to these kids, still doing it like they can market the purity campaign well, And what's gross about it is they make them market it so that they can poke and poke and poke and poke and keep asking well, have you had sex? Now? Have you had sex? Now? Have you today? We share talking to teenagers about their sex lives unless we're talking about sex said teen pregnancy prevention STD prevention, Like, let's be honest and educate kids, keep them safe. Let's not like I don't know. It just feels so creepy and voyeuristic to me. I don't. Yes. Yes, as a community everybody monitoring it, I think it is weird. I really think. I understand. Um, you know, everybody comes from different worldviews, and so I understand in that community, if there's a worldview that you think is really helpful and good, you would want to support that and you would want to talk with other people in the community about that. And so I understand where the idea of the posters and the idea of like it's cool, don't worry like you're not going to be an outcast. Are lots of other people like you who see the world this way, who want to do this. We're with you, We're on your side. I support that element of it, of the community of people who have that worldview and that's how they want to conduct themselves. Um. But when it crosses over into the policing of it, and that's when it's like with the shame as a virgin in high school, anytime I heard that there was like a cool girl like celebrity that either was also a virgin or just like like not promiscuous, like didn't have a lot of partners. Freshman year in college, Angelina Jolie was on the cover of Rolling Stone and everyone was shocked because she was like, oh no, I I can count all the sexual partners I've had, Like I don't even need a whole hand, like I've had so few, and as like a turbo virgin. I was like, oh my god, I'm not a freak like Angelina Jolie's, you know, squire. And so I think it's the it's the caricature that we use on our show of like if you're a virgin, you're weirdo. That's what's bothering me about. Yeah, that's what bothers me too. And by the way, guess who's coming to be a hot boy, clean teen who everybody is like, let's take his virginity, Like Stephen Colletti comes in as a clean teen enjoy that's right, that's where he comes from. And it's all about like, oh my god, Chase is so hot, he's so cool, but Shelley is like a lame freak. I'm not here for it. I don't like no. By the way, Shelley's hot. Elizabeth Arnwall takes what's on the page, and she's so earnest and she's so like, guys, this is going to be awesome. And I'm so glad that she came to play the part because she's yeah, like and so Lize and I had been friends for years already. Is that why she got on the show. We had a conversation on airplane where he's like, Okay, if we're going to make fun of your high school club, who do you want to play you? When I was like, my friend, Elizabeth is the only person I trust to play that part, because because she I knew wouldn't just make fun of the clean team. She would add an element of like, no, we're her kids and we're trying to make a safe space. She's a good actress. Yeah, she's so tempted and friends because they did that movie Ten and Chiero together, we're danili for that. Yes, that's yeah, gosh, that was an epic summer. That was a wild summer. But we were all already like buddies, so it made it. You know, that's so cool. It's so cool. And there's something too that I love, you know, it's it's we're just the particulars of humans can add to casting. Because Elizabeth has a face like an angel, like she just she has like a like a doll face, and there's something so the adds like just because of the way she looks, there's like an added level of just like sweetness and light. When she gets excited in these scenes, like when when she's excited to welcome Brooke and Rachel into this, it feels great. Even the next day when they're nervous to approach the table and they see Principal Turner, and you know, the unsaid thing is that's our alibi. We gotta go sit down. Like Elizabeth's beaming smile killed me. She's just so happy that we're coming to sit If you could convert a bad girl, what big caught the big fish man, Davis, you have a class president, Yeah, oh my god. But also for Brooke like to to strip away the caricature of it all, Yeah, I do appreciate the notion that you always have the opportunity to reinvent yourself. Like let's say Brook legitimately wanted to swear off boys for a while, like she has just up on a teacher. You know, it's it's there's levels of grossness that have happened for Brooke over the last year, where like if she legitimately wanted to just hit restart, Yeah, I appreciate would avenue. That would have been nice if they had not made the group so corny, if they had actually made it like, you know, a little nerd, but like the authentic group of kids who really wanted to do something something good. Yeah, but I do like where the journey is going to go because in a way, though it isn't her intention, she does get that chance. And I think, on a is that what happens? What's happening, what's coming up? Yeah, like Brooke really there's a there's a whole storyline for her with clean teens and Chase, and it's it's cool, And I think what I like about the potential of it and and Hill what I what I really think I'm responding to and what you're saying is it was so cool in this era to just like judge kids and everyone was a stereotype and everyone was like a you know, this person was kind of a caricature and whatever, and the idea that we could choose to offer people a new path anytime and not judge them for it. You know, like like if we were going to do this storyline today, I would love it to be like, look, no harm, no foul, Like you get see who you are. But if you want to do something different, who says you can't? So inspired? Like setting that example, that's great, isn't isn't judging Shelley the way that she was being judged too, I think that's also a great example. Yeah, yeah, I like that. You know, even in the conversation they had back at Trick episodes ago, Wow, I didn't like the way that they know the writer has handled it. I like that Brook will just show up and be like, hey, tell me your story. Yeah, you know that's we get these like moments. I think in the way that we fought for each other as as girls on the show, we get these moments of like, oh, if we had had a little more that it would have been really nice. You know, it was really nice and needs an honorable mention. I know we're I know we're long today, but that scene all everything Mouth is going through in this episod, So it's so sweet. Lee is so good And that scene that opens tight on him and pulls back and Mouth is in the bed in between Lucas and Haley and they're talking about relationships. I loved that so much, loved it. I loved I loved being able to do that scene because we never got to do stuff together Lucas, Haley and Mouth. Yeah, that was so It was so nice to see. Also, I just loved being back in Lucas's bed, like the three of us, you know, it felt like, Hey, just a reminder River Court Days, reminder of where we all started. I love when our show does that, just the little easter egg reminders of where we started. Yeah, I want to see that childhood of the three. Yes, I would have been fun babies. It was so sweet. And what I like about where they're going with Mouth is their foreshadowing the change ahead, g saying, look, you're a senior going to graduate. They're beginning to foreshadow that we might not want to let go of this place, but it's gonna it's gonna let us go. We're gonna get pushed out of the nest here. And I just thought it was a beautiful device and and even the way that he, you know, being sweet mouths, wants to fight for her. And then all her friends come to sit and they actually cast like fourteen year old girls, young girls. You said that, You're like, look, they surrounded her with little girls, so she ya and you could really see the difference and you realize that, you know, she's just on the beginning of this journey that is coming to an end for the rest of us. And I don't know, it really hit me. It made me feel very emotional, and I just thought that they did that really well. I'm glad you called that out. That's good. It's my little honorable mention. Honorable mention. We guys start adding that into our episodes. It's kind of cussing her questions spin a wheel and honorable mention. We have a listener question we do all right. Liz wants to know where on Earth did all the characters keep their clothes. Peyton and Lucas both have closet doors wide open with desks and computers inside. I don't know why I've never noticed this before, but I'm laughing so hard at it. Season four. That is so true. It's hilarious. No, and and in Nathan and Haley's apartment. Anytime she went to the closet to get something, it was always just a hole in the wall. It was so small, like a little towel, like a linen closet. Yet we almost never wore the same thing twice. It's like, it's like each of these people needed a warehouse for their closets. We actually had the warehouse. Huh. I mean, to be fair, like Peyton lived all by herself, she could have just had a whole other room that was I'm going for that. And Brooke too, well, except when she moved into Lucas's house. But that wait, where is Brook living now Rachel's and apparently they're just buying doubles of all the same. Does Rachel have parents? No? I mean, my god, nobody has parents. We just have big houses and no parents. That's where all our clothes go. And our parents were just called it orphant. Yeah, yeah, Like what if Peyton's just wearing all of her mom's clothes and that lads a layer of sadness, that hot topics stuff. You know what? I you know what, I like speaking in Peyton's clothes. I like that Lucas is dressing more and more like Peyton him now in the leather jacket. It's a very Ellie look, and yeah, I was super into that. I don't know, I really like it. I like that they're starting to twin a little bit. Yeah you called it. His collar was popped up like Keith's a little bit and uh yeah, the necklace and the shirt with the pattern on it, and his hair in the eyeliner. He's definitely going for it suits him. I mean, I think this is Chad's sweet spot, particularly on camera, way better than like Jock or you know. It's like that's his sweet spot. This emo boy for sure. Emo boys. Yeah, I just love it. It's like, not only are they coming into their relationship, but you feel like their relationship is helping Lucas come into his own in a way. And it's just like a nice thing to see, especially having had a character who kind of vacillates between knowing who he is and losing his way and and having his moral core and then kind of betraying his values at different stages and having to figure out, you know, who he wants to be and what he believes in. It's like you not only see him getting the answers in the way he's behaving in the way he's being with Peyton and the things he's saying, but like you see it in his identity, And yeah, that is such a fun aspect for me of our jobs is the way you get to build a whole person in a whole life. And you know, we talked about how we'd not had a great wardrobe person for a minute, but obviously we have somebody coming in at this point who's really getting the undertones broken. Rachel are dressing the same, and Peyton and Lucas like they're identifying people's relationships in in visual cues now too, And I just think that they were really we got lucky and they really started to nail it. It's like in theater, like and and, like Rogers and Harrison Musical, where the couples all wear the same color. It's like, we're the couple, were the pink couple. I like it, You're the couple in leather, leather, You a whale's been a whale? Whose are most likely to m hm? Who's most likely to let their kids? It's watch One Tree Hill in the future, dude, I don't know, probably not me, and Maria doesn't want to watch it. I don't think she's like whatever this lame. Yeahs is kind of repulsed, like he's kind of like, guys, enough um because it's well like no one thinks their parents are cool. Yeah, but also joy think about your visceral reaction now, four years into friendships, watching Chad and Hillary kiss, you were like, oh no, no, there, I don't like this, Like you can't be that. You can't be the viewer in that moment. Imagine how it feels for your kids. No, kids are like, who is that guy making out with? Hold on? Why are they wearing that? Come here? Come here? George is here right now. She's winging at me. She wants me to like put some on TV. Come here? Do you want to watch One Tree Hill? She shook her head no and looks, no, you don't want to watch mom on TV. Guys, she just wants something else on her iPad. So there's your answer. It's not the Morgan house. These kids just being interested literally anything else on their iPad. I mean, I have Barbera's daughters watch the show. I don't. They probably have, but I don't have things. Really, I don't know. I think any of us would let our kids as at a certain point. But it's more of a question of whose kids actually would want to watch the show. I don't. I also guys, like, I love doing our rewatch with you, but what I'm not gonna want to do is rewatch it again like we're doing it so I don't know, one and done like joy. Can you imagine watching this episode today and then Maria gets home from school and it's like, Mom, what episode are we watching? You're like, I can't do it. I've done this already for two hours, Like so I don't know any why do it? Do? And watch? And yeah? But yeah, I do agree if they wanted too, if, like I don't know, if in junior higher high school them and their friends got into it, I'd probably be like cool party a man in that because I know if these little punks sit down and start watching our show, they're just gonna make fun of me. And I don't know that now. I can't deal with that on top of everything else. No, I can't think of anyone like Antoine's kids. They're too cool for us. You know what I would like to know though, Remember that sweet woman who we met with her daughter on tour, who named her Sophia. Yea, they were so cute, but you know she was obviously she was a big fan of our show, and now her daughter is a big fan of our show. And like, I don't know, I would love to hear from some of the fans who watched it and now who watched it with their kids. I would love to know what their experience is because it's too close to home for us. Your kids don't want to watch you kiss some guy who's not their dad, you know, on TV. I get it, but I would love to know at that second life experience with kids is for our fans. So send us some Send us some d ms on the Drama Queens Instagram guys, tell us some stuff. So what's next week? What do we have next episode? Season four PSO twelve Resolve Resolve Well it's a one word title. Yeah, it's like the Madonna of our episodes. Share. Bye, guys, thanks for hanging out. See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama Queens o t h or email us at Drama Queens at I Heart radio dot com. See you next time. Were all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. 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