Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas. We've been married for over forty years. But when I was younger, I never wanted to be married. It didn't seem possible for two people to live together for life. And you were half right. Nearly half of all marriages end in divorce. But what about the ones at last? What's the secret? Sauce? I have no idea, but the best way to find out is to talk with some long married couples, you know, like a double date, And so we did. We made dates with couples we admire actors, athletes, musicians, journalists, And you know what I love about it double date? Everybody talks, everybody remembers, and you get a real sense of who this couple is together exactly. Take Viola Davis and Julius Tennan. What a couple. Here are two great actors with all the talent and none of the eagle. The first feeling you get from them is welcome. Remember Julius was standing outside on the street in front of their house, just to be sure we didn't get lost. Such a great hello. It told us a lot about them right from the start. My big thing with me and Julius is we're the fun We have the best parties. Oh that's great. Good, I'm glad I'm getting to know you. Let's go work out. We settled down at their dinner table with these tall, comfy chairs that you could just sink into, and we started talking. I felt an immediate bond with Viola. Like me, she never could imagine herself was a life partner. I did not want to get married either. I never had any visions of walking down an aisle with a white dress. I admired every woman who was alone and happy and who had a lot of boyfriends. I was a narcissistic artist, That's what I was, right. And then then I read somewhere that you prayed for a husband. When I was up at Williamstown Theater Festival, I was doing the Raising the Sun and a friend of mine said why are you alone? And I felt like, oh my god. I almost started crying and my eyes were rolling up. He was like, is there a reason why you don't have a relationship. I said, well, I guess I've just never found anyone who loved me, you know. And then he was the one, Joseph Edwards. I know because he just got married. He just got married. He said, go into your room, this is what I want you to do, and get on your knees and you ask God for blah blah blah blah. I was like, oh, God, another on fire for Jesus persons, and you did I did. I did it. And there was a specific prayer right that you may very specific because he told me to be specific and literally, I was like, Okay, this is what I want. Now. He really doesn't have to be black, but I want him to be black. I want him to look like a football player because I love football players, okay. And I want him to be from the South because I love countrymen and I kind of would appreciate it. He's already been married, he's already had kids, because I don't want that pressure. And I want him to be like, maybe very spiritual, church going, funny, you know, maybe someone who is an artist too's he's got those artistic sensibility. And I met Julius three and a half weeks later, three and a half ways, three and a half weeks how on City of Angels and City of Angels. We actually met during the pilot episode. I was dating a girl. I was really trying to run away from a little monster. And so when I met Viola, I gave her my card and then she called, and then we went on our first date. And twenty years later, here we are, and I felt like I had done all the work before then. I was in therapy. I finally went to therapy because I had screen actors guilt. So when Julius came along, I remember telling my therapist, you know, this guy gave me a card and he's really good looking. And she was like, oh, okay, because you can tell she made me a little bit bored. It's what I was talking about. She's like, talk about something else. So and I said, this guy gave me a card and he oh, he invited me to church. And she was like, have you called him back? I said no, I don't know because I'm struggle. I gotta get my credit off, I gotta get my life in order. She said, call him, wow, and and I said, yeah, but you know what, there made me something wrong with him. She's like, there's something wrong with everyone, Viola, there's something wrong with you. It took me six weeks to call him because I was so nervous. I was having anxiety attacks about La and then finally called him. I said, he's never going to remember me, and he remembered me, and I remember he invited me to his place where he worked. And the openness, emotional availability I never had that before. Usually men, it's like, Okay, how do you feel? How do you feel about me? Do you love me? Do you not love me? Do you want to be with me? Na Julious, you never had to guess. My mom did a good job. She already did because my mom always told me to respect women. I already knew that there was a certain kind of decorum around the way you needed to treat women. You know. Phil said to me one time, what do you have so much against marriage? I said, well, I think that people lose courteous and I really don't like that. I don't want to be treated in a discourtious or dispersive way. And when we do that for each other, I mean, I'll say, Tom, I'm want to get you a sweater, it's cold out here, or he'll say that to me. There's a concern for the other person. Yeah, you know, I went to an all boy Catholic high school and one of the things that was given to us or dancing lessons, and they taught us. You know, you don't call the woman. You place your hand gently on her back, and you'd be sure to return her to wherever it was when you asked her to dance. They were being taught grace, you know, and that's a lovely I went to a girls school. We both are Catholic. When I went to girls school, and I think I think sharing, not so much sharing a religion or a faith, but sharing the values of that. So when people ask me what I think our marriage is lasted, I thought, well, we define certain important words the same, like what's fair and unfair? Yes, what's acceptable and unacceptable? I Phil says to me, that's not fair. I know, I know what it means. I don't see what do you mean? It is a fair I mean, I got it. You have to allow the other person, you know, they're saying, it's always kind of this thing of agreeing to disagree, and it's okay, but you know, we try to get around that thing without it being an impediment. What it is. We always we just discuss, you know, and for some people it works where if they're angry at each other because this whole tongue here can say some things that you can never take back, So you have to be careful with this um. But some folks have to like sleep on it. We never go to sleep on our anger. Do you fight? How do you fight? I'm the door slam, I say, yeah, And I'm kind of the guy that just goes away. I just go away. But then it dissipates fast and then it's nothing, honey, like nothing. Yeah, I'm the chaser. I follow him until I can get him to hear I do that too. He's trying to just get away. No, because I think how you fight and how you come back from a fight, it is a big line in the sand. It is. You gotta know how to do that. You really do. My big thing, my advice about marriage that I give to all of my friends, I say, your marriage does not start when you walk down the aisle. Your marriage starts when you look over at a person that you love more than anything, and there's something about him. You just see just one character trait just a glimpse, and you're thinking, oh man, that's gonna drive me crazy. I don't know if I could deal with this. You're just in your brain. I'm like, I don't know if I could deal with this and the next minute you're like, you know what, but I love them, I'm going to stick it out. What is it that's when your marriage starts? That's great. Tell us what it is with joyous that that drives you crazy? I know, I can tell you what drives me. Oh, I know a lot of things drive me crazy. About Julius Um, he's a little OCD. H. Yes, you know, I'm let's just say, familiar with this issue. I know, I know, I'm sorry, but I think it should be called obsessive compulsive order. That drives me a little bit crazy. I'm OCD too. That's why people like you and may never get but I need take There's all this mess on the floor. I'm like, oh my god, and it'll be too little from You'll walk into my office talking like crazy about everything and straightening up this book, getting this magazine over here where along you know, I set things down and that's where they are. I mean, you can tell where I've been in the house just by looking. You know, he had orangese over here because little orange castles there. He had a ginger all over there because exactly what it is. If he ever murdered anybody I could, like, you know exactly. My life got better as soon as we got together. And I mean that too, my life did get better. I had bad credit when I met Julius. I didn't know anything. I had my apartment in New York that was the ceiling was caving in because it was rent stabilized. The pipes had burst, so I couldn't get anyone to sublet it. And then I was here doing a TV show and I had to pay rent here, and then I was sending my family money. I was just all over the place. Julius came in. He was making my life easier. It's like, v this is what we could do. Me and you could move in together. We could share the rent. And I was like, oh my god. I started saving my money. This is how you build up your credit. I was like, oh really, So all of a sudden, I'm like saving money. My credit got better. She didn't have to clean I mean, I know how to clean baseboards, I know how to wash blinds. I can do it all. You know. Viola wasn't used to doing that kind of thing. And I remember the very first time, but she stayed with me, and then I went to the bathroom after she left because she had to go to work. And I went in there and the tops was they were off everything, the toothpaste, the moisturizer, everything. I'm like, going, my god. It seemed like the bathroom had been blown up. She came back and she saw the bathroom and she said, why'd you do that? Why'd you put everything back? I said, that's just what I do. And I said, listen, honey, you don't ever have to worry about it. Just do what you do and I'll do what I do. And that's the way we've rolled, oh wow, ever since. And so I just what might take her a thirty minutes to an hour to do, I can do in fifteen. She's a slab and that's us. He's a slob. I always say, if I feel is a man who doesn't know the meaning of the word hamp no idea what it mean. And I'm always fixed. And I've gotten better. She's gotten better over the years. It took her a while. I'm much better, but I still do things. Yeah, So then how long did it take to get to, you know, seriousness or moving in together? It seemed like we just lived together right away. It felt like that. I always I always, well, it did, yeah, because he brought his clothes to my apartment. I loved it. There was nothing about it that I questioned. It was easy, it was right, and we had so much fun. It was the first time and I was coming from New York with three to four roommates, you know, you know, living at Juilliard in the dorms. And then finally here I was with an apartment in Los Angeles. And it's like, all of a sudden, we had a Christmas tree. It's like I hadn't had a Christmas tree in years. We had Thanksgiving, remember the first Thanksgiving. We must say so much. We eat so much food for ten people and we ate it in four days. Oh my god. It almost amazes me how people know how to trust another person. I mean we we too. I mean he came to see me, like the first night I was I had moved around. I was doing a promotion of a movie. So I was in Chicago promoting my movie on his show, and then I went on to Denver and to you know, to other shows and around the country. And he called me and he said, I'd like to see you, and where are you us That I'm in Denver. Is Denver very far from Chicago? And he said, no, that's far at all. So he comes from Denver to to have dinner with me and we go together. Was it? That was it? And oh, when you think to yourself, how did I not know that he would take out a knife and kill me? You know, you know what I mean. You get into vulnerable place with a person who don't know very well. You know, I've always thoughted that as the act of faith. My goodness, well, relationships are in their faith and vulnerability is the ultimate, you know, level of courage and bravery. And you felt awfully vulnerable in our early days to be dating an actress. Remember what you said to me, I sure do? When do I know you're not acting? And it never dawned on me, and I thought it was such an innocent, dear question, like when you cry, is that you crying? Or that like you cry? The day we got I'm a great memorizer, it was we all our actors are. We wrote our own vows. And my friends were with him at the hotel saying he was walking around the courtyard memorizing, memorizing, memorizing, right, And you know, I you know, I saw him. I learned whatever. I got it right. So it comes time for the wedding to do our vows, and he does his vows, you know, beautifully, and I got to do my vows and I just choked and was like when you hear about stage fright. I just couldn't do it, and and I was crying, and I was just it was just a man. So later we got back to the hotel after the wedding and he said, I can't believe you didn't learn our vows. I said, I know the vows. I've rattled them off right. He said, well, why couldn't you do the today? He said, you're an actress. I said, I wasn't an actress today. I would a terrified bride. I was in a state of panic. Now, you know how to know that I'm not a good actress when I'm a real person. Couldn't run my lines, which is what I'm actually good at. We'll have more after a quick break. We're back to our interview with Viola Davis and Julius Tennen. And I wanted to know, what do you get from each other that you can't get from anyone else? Well, what I get? What I can tell you. One of the big things I get from her is I can tell her anything and she listens, and she yeah, she listens, she takes it in. She's always interested in my well being and happiness. And Julius has Julius has a capacity to love. Not everyone has the capacity to love. You know. One of the things that Julius did when we first got together is he said, V, you know, you've never had a parent who died. I find that really interesting. V. I was like, oh, yeah, both my parents are still here. He was like, oh, it's going to be hard. And you know, my parents at that point were raising several of my siblings children because of drugs and all of that. And Julius said, V, let me tell you something. When parents have a hard life, they can go from pretty good health really bad health in a very short period of time, and they don't have any resources. So do they have any insurance or whatever, Because when it happens, it's so devastating, you're so kind of inundated with it. You can't make choices. No one else in the family can make choices. So I remember we got insurance on my parents. I remember my dad passed from pancreatic cancer. And the first person I called was Julius. I was devastated because I was there at hospice when he passed. I was out of my mind and I called Julius. I said he's gone, and Julius says, Okay, oh Bee, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Okay, Now here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna hang up from me. You're gonna pick up the phone. You're gonna call the insurance company. You're gonna give them all the information where the funeral home is going to be. They will take care of everything. I will get on the plane and I will be there as soon as I can, step by step. That person who literally has a capacity to love, has really the capacity to really have your back in all of the deep, ugly, messy, but beautiful things that happen in your life. That's the elixir as as far as I'm concerned, and that's everything with him. How long were you together before you got married? Four years? Well, there was a little you know, there wasn't fear from me. It was just that, um, I wanted to, you know, be free of all of my dad. And so when we got married, we could start off on the you know, even footing, and she said, well, we're we we were together, We're gonna be together. So your dad is my dad. We're gonna do this together. And I remember not really saying anything that night, and then the next day I told her, I said, you know what, you're the girl for me. That's a very honorable idea that I want to be out of dad. I want to be responsible. I want to walk into this, you know, without having to drag that's right mess behind me. I think that's Viola and Julius seem so connected. We wondered what throws them out of sync? We couldn't help a dig a little. Are you? Are you the jealous type? Do you think? I am? Not really, but I think it's good to have a little jealousy, but not have a little jealous I do because I always pinpoint those women who are very questionable. They may come off really nice, but they I always feel like we have a radar for those women, right. I don't think men do. So I'm like that, And then I'm very very articulate about those I said, she can't come to the house anymore. A party everywhere everywhere I go, I can just go. I can. She's really more introverted. But I can walk in a room and I can just start having a conversation with anybody. I mean anywhere in the subway station, anywhere just comes easy for me. I am an introvert. I am like maybe a step away from being a straight up loaner. I love my alone time. I love getting lost. I could drive to you know, a theater, watch a you know, a foreign movie, eat my sushi by myself, with my book, and that's it. I spent most of my time alone. I haven't had a lot of boyfriends, had been long term. So when I got married, to have to answer to someone, to have to say, okay, this is where I'm going to be was very difficult for me. It's like I almost needed a woman cave someone like and you know, the invention of cell phones, it's that that just killed me. So that was one thing that I felt like I was going to have to give up my independence, you know. And I didn't want to give up my name. I was like, oh, I don't know if I can give up my name. I think that commits you to a stable, long term marriage. Yeah, I do more than I think the people that are in danger, the people, oh I can't live without him her, yeah, breathless to get married are the ones that boom, yeah, weeks. How about stress? How do you handle stress? We had to really learn work on that because in the beginning when he'd panic eyed panic right, and it was a disaster. So we had to really work on Somebody once said that a good marriages were both people don't go crazy at the same time. The first thing he told me, it's kind of always one of those things where between us, Viola does tend to get more stressed out. I had so much stress living in Los Angeles. I mean I just didn't understand how to connect with people. I felt like my funky look, my funky ways, me not really caring about being fined or cute or I just didn't have all that stuff going on. I just did like I didn't fit in, and just New York was my city, you know, I was. I never had delusions of becoming a star nothing. I never had anything. I was a journeyman actor. And then I met Julius and I did go back for six months to do a Broadway show. Wasn't it Kennedy Center. She gave me goosebumps from the top of my head to my toes. And at the end of the show, I went backstage and I said, You're gonna win the Tony Award for this. I was sure of it. Speaking of awards, you wanted to ask about that speech, your Ammy speech speech, Mike Harriet Tubman, And yeah, oh yeah, I mean it was just very political, and wasn't it Tubman speech where you know that she talks about having a dream about a line, right and white women their hands outstretch, you know, reaching for her to come over the line. But then she wakes up and she says she can't ever get to that line. She couldn't ever so heartbreaking, right, you know, moments like that where you know, and Julius just having him in my life, it's like my way of sort of saving myself of what I what I feel, this is just what I feel, is that I don't like about la which is trying to retain my authenticity, trying to retain something about me that is just myself. This is just how I felt about being out here, that everything was an audition, even friendships was an audition. Yeah, that you had to sort of pass a test in order to be, you know, even be the cool friend, to be the cool mom. You know, even where does your kid go to school? And if it's not the hip, funky school that all the celebrities have their kids at, then it's like, you're out right. That's my protest, I feel it is. It's like, that's my protest. It's like everything, you know, even with how to get away with murder taking my wig off, everything is my rebellion, you know, was her idea. I love how supportive he is of her work. I know something about that, Yes you do. I guess we see you as stable as hell. I mean, you guys are solid and talking to you, I am impressed with the insights you brought to your union. Not everybody has that. One of the things I did before I met Joyous as I was in therapy, because I was not a great girlfriend. I had a lot of I would say, like bad boyfriends, but I was attracted to them for a reason. So and I remember a friend of mine said, Viola, why do you keep meeting assholes? And I said, I don't know. Isn't that something I keep meeting these assholes? She said, did you ever think it was you? And I remember that was my big AHA moment. And I think that's the best thing that I've brought into my marriage is to really ask myself what am I contributing to it or what am I doing to destroy it at any moment. You know. It's like my first therapist said. What she said was viola, Whenever you're on automatic in your marriage, you're not in it, you know. And so that that's been my personal responsibility, not to put everything on him, not to say, make me happy, Julius, make the marriage good, Julius, be the great husband, Julius. I also have to step up right. Okay, I'm going to give you one last Okay, my husband is looking really like you know, you've already take I go. I could go on forever, really good. I'm so fascinated by this. But if there was a young couple here about to be married, is there something you'd want to tell them to make their marriage last? The big thing I would tell them is that you have to listen to the other person. I mean, you really do. You have to really listen let it land, because once you stop listening, you're not You're not there. You're not in it when you're not listening, right, you know. That's a big one for me. What about you? I would say that commitment is love, and what I mean by that is you can't operate separately with your own joy and go on your own path and your own road. If if in the end it doesn't honor the big umbrella of the ultimate commitment, the ultimate commitment between Viola Davis and Julius Tennan. It was wonderful for us to experience it until next time. I'm Phil down to you and I'm Marlow Thomas, your love, Thank you, thank you, and you got to invite us one of those fabulous parties. Double Day is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was created by US and produced by Sarah Lily. Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to Be You by Selwagon, Simfinette, Marlo and I are executive producers, along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Wiseburg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, and Bruce Kluker. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate and review. Thanks for listening,

Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas. We've been married for over forty years. But when I was younger, I never wanted to be married. It didn't seem possible for two people to live together for life. And you were half right. Nearly half of all marriages end in divorce. But what about the ones at last? What's the secret? Sauce? I have no idea, but the best way to find out is to talk with some long married couples, you know, like a double date, And so we did. We made dates with couples we admire actors, athletes, musicians, journalists, And you know what I love about it double date? Everybody talks, everybody remembers, and you get a real sense of who this couple is together exactly. Take Viola Davis and Julius Tennan. What a couple. Here are two great actors with all the talent and none of the eagle. The first feeling you get from them is welcome. Remember Julius was standing outside on the street in front of their house, just to be sure we didn't get lost. Such a great hello. It told us a lot about them right from the start. My big thing with me and Julius is we're the fun We have the best parties. Oh that's great. Good, I'm glad I'm getting to know you. Let's go work out. We settled down at their dinner table with these tall, comfy chairs that you could just sink into, and we started talking. I felt an immediate bond with Viola. Like me, she never could imagine herself was a life partner. I did not want to get married either. I never had any visions of walking down an aisle with a white dress. I admired every woman who was alone and happy and who had a lot of boyfriends. I was a narcissistic artist, That's what I was, right. And then then I read somewhere that you prayed for a husband. When I was up at Williamstown Theater Festival, I was doing the Raising the Sun and a friend of mine said why are you alone? And I felt like, oh my god. I almost started crying and my eyes were rolling up. He was like, is there a reason why you don't have a relationship. I said, well, I guess I've just never found anyone who loved me, you know. And then he was the one, Joseph Edwards. I know because he just got married. He just got married. He said, go into your room, this is what I want you to do, and get on your knees and you ask God for blah blah blah blah. I was like, oh, God, another on fire for Jesus persons, and you did I did. I did it. And there was a specific prayer right that you may very specific because he told me to be specific and literally, I was like, Okay, this is what I want. Now. He really doesn't have to be black, but I want him to be black. I want him to look like a football player because I love football players, okay. And I want him to be from the South because I love countrymen and I kind of would appreciate it. He's already been married, he's already had kids, because I don't want that pressure. And I want him to be like, maybe very spiritual, church going, funny, you know, maybe someone who is an artist too's he's got those artistic sensibility. And I met Julius three and a half weeks later, three and a half ways, three and a half weeks how on City of Angels and City of Angels. We actually met during the pilot episode. I was dating a girl. I was really trying to run away from a little monster. And so when I met Viola, I gave her my card and then she called, and then we went on our first date. And twenty years later, here we are, and I felt like I had done all the work before then. I was in therapy. I finally went to therapy because I had screen actors guilt. So when Julius came along, I remember telling my therapist, you know, this guy gave me a card and he's really good looking. And she was like, oh, okay, because you can tell she made me a little bit bored. It's what I was talking about. She's like, talk about something else. So and I said, this guy gave me a card and he oh, he invited me to church. And she was like, have you called him back? I said no, I don't know because I'm struggle. I gotta get my credit off, I gotta get my life in order. She said, call him, wow, and and I said, yeah, but you know what, there made me something wrong with him. She's like, there's something wrong with everyone, Viola, there's something wrong with you. It took me six weeks to call him because I was so nervous. I was having anxiety attacks about La and then finally called him. I said, he's never going to remember me, and he remembered me, and I remember he invited me to his place where he worked. And the openness, emotional availability I never had that before. Usually men, it's like, Okay, how do you feel? How do you feel about me? Do you love me? Do you not love me? Do you want to be with me? Na Julious, you never had to guess. My mom did a good job. She already did because my mom always told me to respect women. I already knew that there was a certain kind of decorum around the way you needed to treat women. You know. Phil said to me one time, what do you have so much against marriage? I said, well, I think that people lose courteous and I really don't like that. I don't want to be treated in a discourtious or dispersive way. And when we do that for each other, I mean, I'll say, Tom, I'm want to get you a sweater, it's cold out here, or he'll say that to me. There's a concern for the other person. Yeah, you know, I went to an all boy Catholic high school and one of the things that was given to us or dancing lessons, and they taught us. You know, you don't call the woman. You place your hand gently on her back, and you'd be sure to return her to wherever it was when you asked her to dance. They were being taught grace, you know, and that's a lovely I went to a girls school. We both are Catholic. When I went to girls school, and I think I think sharing, not so much sharing a religion or a faith, but sharing the values of that. So when people ask me what I think our marriage is lasted, I thought, well, we define certain important words the same, like what's fair and unfair? Yes, what's acceptable and unacceptable? I Phil says to me, that's not fair. I know, I know what it means. I don't see what do you mean? It is a fair I mean, I got it. You have to allow the other person, you know, they're saying, it's always kind of this thing of agreeing to disagree, and it's okay, but you know, we try to get around that thing without it being an impediment. What it is. We always we just discuss, you know, and for some people it works where if they're angry at each other because this whole tongue here can say some things that you can never take back, So you have to be careful with this um. But some folks have to like sleep on it. We never go to sleep on our anger. Do you fight? How do you fight? I'm the door slam, I say, yeah, And I'm kind of the guy that just goes away. I just go away. But then it dissipates fast and then it's nothing, honey, like nothing. Yeah, I'm the chaser. I follow him until I can get him to hear I do that too. He's trying to just get away. No, because I think how you fight and how you come back from a fight, it is a big line in the sand. It is. You gotta know how to do that. You really do. My big thing, my advice about marriage that I give to all of my friends, I say, your marriage does not start when you walk down the aisle. Your marriage starts when you look over at a person that you love more than anything, and there's something about him. You just see just one character trait just a glimpse, and you're thinking, oh man, that's gonna drive me crazy. I don't know if I could deal with this. You're just in your brain. I'm like, I don't know if I could deal with this and the next minute you're like, you know what, but I love them, I'm going to stick it out. What is it that's when your marriage starts? That's great. Tell us what it is with joyous that that drives you crazy? I know, I can tell you what drives me. Oh, I know a lot of things drive me crazy. About Julius Um, he's a little OCD. H. Yes, you know, I'm let's just say, familiar with this issue. I know, I know, I'm sorry, but I think it should be called obsessive compulsive order. That drives me a little bit crazy. I'm OCD too. That's why people like you and may never get but I need take There's all this mess on the floor. I'm like, oh my god, and it'll be too little from You'll walk into my office talking like crazy about everything and straightening up this book, getting this magazine over here where along you know, I set things down and that's where they are. I mean, you can tell where I've been in the house just by looking. You know, he had orangese over here because little orange castles there. He had a ginger all over there because exactly what it is. If he ever murdered anybody I could, like, you know exactly. My life got better as soon as we got together. And I mean that too, my life did get better. I had bad credit when I met Julius. I didn't know anything. I had my apartment in New York that was the ceiling was caving in because it was rent stabilized. The pipes had burst, so I couldn't get anyone to sublet it. And then I was here doing a TV show and I had to pay rent here, and then I was sending my family money. I was just all over the place. Julius came in. He was making my life easier. It's like, v this is what we could do. Me and you could move in together. We could share the rent. And I was like, oh my god. I started saving my money. This is how you build up your credit. I was like, oh really, So all of a sudden, I'm like saving money. My credit got better. She didn't have to clean I mean, I know how to clean baseboards, I know how to wash blinds. I can do it all. You know. Viola wasn't used to doing that kind of thing. And I remember the very first time, but she stayed with me, and then I went to the bathroom after she left because she had to go to work. And I went in there and the tops was they were off everything, the toothpaste, the moisturizer, everything. I'm like, going, my god. It seemed like the bathroom had been blown up. She came back and she saw the bathroom and she said, why'd you do that? Why'd you put everything back? I said, that's just what I do. And I said, listen, honey, you don't ever have to worry about it. Just do what you do and I'll do what I do. And that's the way we've rolled, oh wow, ever since. And so I just what might take her a thirty minutes to an hour to do, I can do in fifteen. She's a slab and that's us. He's a slob. I always say, if I feel is a man who doesn't know the meaning of the word hamp no idea what it mean. And I'm always fixed. And I've gotten better. She's gotten better over the years. It took her a while. I'm much better, but I still do things. Yeah, So then how long did it take to get to, you know, seriousness or moving in together? It seemed like we just lived together right away. It felt like that. I always I always, well, it did, yeah, because he brought his clothes to my apartment. I loved it. There was nothing about it that I questioned. It was easy, it was right, and we had so much fun. It was the first time and I was coming from New York with three to four roommates, you know, you know, living at Juilliard in the dorms. And then finally here I was with an apartment in Los Angeles. And it's like, all of a sudden, we had a Christmas tree. It's like I hadn't had a Christmas tree in years. We had Thanksgiving, remember the first Thanksgiving. We must say so much. We eat so much food for ten people and we ate it in four days. Oh my god. It almost amazes me how people know how to trust another person. I mean we we too. I mean he came to see me, like the first night I was I had moved around. I was doing a promotion of a movie. So I was in Chicago promoting my movie on his show, and then I went on to Denver and to you know, to other shows and around the country. And he called me and he said, I'd like to see you, and where are you us That I'm in Denver. Is Denver very far from Chicago? And he said, no, that's far at all. So he comes from Denver to to have dinner with me and we go together. Was it? That was it? And oh, when you think to yourself, how did I not know that he would take out a knife and kill me? You know, you know what I mean. You get into vulnerable place with a person who don't know very well. You know, I've always thoughted that as the act of faith. My goodness, well, relationships are in their faith and vulnerability is the ultimate, you know, level of courage and bravery. And you felt awfully vulnerable in our early days to be dating an actress. Remember what you said to me, I sure do? When do I know you're not acting? And it never dawned on me, and I thought it was such an innocent, dear question, like when you cry, is that you crying? Or that like you cry? The day we got I'm a great memorizer, it was we all our actors are. We wrote our own vows. And my friends were with him at the hotel saying he was walking around the courtyard memorizing, memorizing, memorizing, right, And you know, I you know, I saw him. I learned whatever. I got it right. So it comes time for the wedding to do our vows, and he does his vows, you know, beautifully, and I got to do my vows and I just choked and was like when you hear about stage fright. I just couldn't do it, and and I was crying, and I was just it was just a man. So later we got back to the hotel after the wedding and he said, I can't believe you didn't learn our vows. I said, I know the vows. I've rattled them off right. He said, well, why couldn't you do the today? He said, you're an actress. I said, I wasn't an actress today. I would a terrified bride. I was in a state of panic. Now, you know how to know that I'm not a good actress when I'm a real person. Couldn't run my lines, which is what I'm actually good at. We'll have more after a quick break. We're back to our interview with Viola Davis and Julius Tennen. And I wanted to know, what do you get from each other that you can't get from anyone else? Well, what I get? What I can tell you. One of the big things I get from her is I can tell her anything and she listens, and she yeah, she listens, she takes it in. She's always interested in my well being and happiness. And Julius has Julius has a capacity to love. Not everyone has the capacity to love. You know. One of the things that Julius did when we first got together is he said, V, you know, you've never had a parent who died. I find that really interesting. V. I was like, oh, yeah, both my parents are still here. He was like, oh, it's going to be hard. And you know, my parents at that point were raising several of my siblings children because of drugs and all of that. And Julius said, V, let me tell you something. When parents have a hard life, they can go from pretty good health really bad health in a very short period of time, and they don't have any resources. So do they have any insurance or whatever, Because when it happens, it's so devastating, you're so kind of inundated with it. You can't make choices. No one else in the family can make choices. So I remember we got insurance on my parents. I remember my dad passed from pancreatic cancer. And the first person I called was Julius. I was devastated because I was there at hospice when he passed. I was out of my mind and I called Julius. I said he's gone, and Julius says, Okay, oh Bee, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Okay, Now here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna hang up from me. You're gonna pick up the phone. You're gonna call the insurance company. You're gonna give them all the information where the funeral home is going to be. They will take care of everything. I will get on the plane and I will be there as soon as I can, step by step. That person who literally has a capacity to love, has really the capacity to really have your back in all of the deep, ugly, messy, but beautiful things that happen in your life. That's the elixir as as far as I'm concerned, and that's everything with him. How long were you together before you got married? Four years? Well, there was a little you know, there wasn't fear from me. It was just that, um, I wanted to, you know, be free of all of my dad. And so when we got married, we could start off on the you know, even footing, and she said, well, we're we we were together, We're gonna be together. So your dad is my dad. We're gonna do this together. And I remember not really saying anything that night, and then the next day I told her, I said, you know what, you're the girl for me. That's a very honorable idea that I want to be out of dad. I want to be responsible. I want to walk into this, you know, without having to drag that's right mess behind me. I think that's Viola and Julius seem so connected. We wondered what throws them out of sync? We couldn't help a dig a little. Are you? Are you the jealous type? Do you think? I am? Not really, but I think it's good to have a little jealousy, but not have a little jealous I do because I always pinpoint those women who are very questionable. They may come off really nice, but they I always feel like we have a radar for those women, right. I don't think men do. So I'm like that, And then I'm very very articulate about those I said, she can't come to the house anymore. A party everywhere everywhere I go, I can just go. I can. She's really more introverted. But I can walk in a room and I can just start having a conversation with anybody. I mean anywhere in the subway station, anywhere just comes easy for me. I am an introvert. I am like maybe a step away from being a straight up loaner. I love my alone time. I love getting lost. I could drive to you know, a theater, watch a you know, a foreign movie, eat my sushi by myself, with my book, and that's it. I spent most of my time alone. I haven't had a lot of boyfriends, had been long term. So when I got married, to have to answer to someone, to have to say, okay, this is where I'm going to be was very difficult for me. It's like I almost needed a woman cave someone like and you know, the invention of cell phones, it's that that just killed me. So that was one thing that I felt like I was going to have to give up my independence, you know. And I didn't want to give up my name. I was like, oh, I don't know if I can give up my name. I think that commits you to a stable, long term marriage. Yeah, I do more than I think the people that are in danger, the people, oh I can't live without him her, yeah, breathless to get married are the ones that boom, yeah, weeks. How about stress? How do you handle stress? We had to really learn work on that because in the beginning when he'd panic eyed panic right, and it was a disaster. So we had to really work on Somebody once said that a good marriages were both people don't go crazy at the same time. The first thing he told me, it's kind of always one of those things where between us, Viola does tend to get more stressed out. I had so much stress living in Los Angeles. I mean I just didn't understand how to connect with people. I felt like my funky look, my funky ways, me not really caring about being fined or cute or I just didn't have all that stuff going on. I just did like I didn't fit in, and just New York was my city, you know, I was. I never had delusions of becoming a star nothing. I never had anything. I was a journeyman actor. And then I met Julius and I did go back for six months to do a Broadway show. Wasn't it Kennedy Center. She gave me goosebumps from the top of my head to my toes. And at the end of the show, I went backstage and I said, You're gonna win the Tony Award for this. I was sure of it. Speaking of awards, you wanted to ask about that speech, your Ammy speech speech, Mike Harriet Tubman, And yeah, oh yeah, I mean it was just very political, and wasn't it Tubman speech where you know that she talks about having a dream about a line, right and white women their hands outstretch, you know, reaching for her to come over the line. But then she wakes up and she says she can't ever get to that line. She couldn't ever so heartbreaking, right, you know, moments like that where you know, and Julius just having him in my life, it's like my way of sort of saving myself of what I what I feel, this is just what I feel, is that I don't like about la which is trying to retain my authenticity, trying to retain something about me that is just myself. This is just how I felt about being out here, that everything was an audition, even friendships was an audition. Yeah, that you had to sort of pass a test in order to be, you know, even be the cool friend, to be the cool mom. You know, even where does your kid go to school? And if it's not the hip, funky school that all the celebrities have their kids at, then it's like, you're out right. That's my protest, I feel it is. It's like, that's my protest. It's like everything, you know, even with how to get away with murder taking my wig off, everything is my rebellion, you know, was her idea. I love how supportive he is of her work. I know something about that, Yes you do. I guess we see you as stable as hell. I mean, you guys are solid and talking to you, I am impressed with the insights you brought to your union. Not everybody has that. One of the things I did before I met Joyous as I was in therapy, because I was not a great girlfriend. I had a lot of I would say, like bad boyfriends, but I was attracted to them for a reason. So and I remember a friend of mine said, Viola, why do you keep meeting assholes? And I said, I don't know. Isn't that something I keep meeting these assholes? She said, did you ever think it was you? And I remember that was my big AHA moment. And I think that's the best thing that I've brought into my marriage is to really ask myself what am I contributing to it or what am I doing to destroy it at any moment. You know. It's like my first therapist said. What she said was viola, Whenever you're on automatic in your marriage, you're not in it, you know. And so that that's been my personal responsibility, not to put everything on him, not to say, make me happy, Julius, make the marriage good, Julius, be the great husband, Julius. I also have to step up right. Okay, I'm going to give you one last Okay, my husband is looking really like you know, you've already take I go. I could go on forever, really good. I'm so fascinated by this. But if there was a young couple here about to be married, is there something you'd want to tell them to make their marriage last? The big thing I would tell them is that you have to listen to the other person. I mean, you really do. You have to really listen let it land, because once you stop listening, you're not You're not there. You're not in it when you're not listening, right, you know. That's a big one for me. What about you? I would say that commitment is love, and what I mean by that is you can't operate separately with your own joy and go on your own path and your own road. If if in the end it doesn't honor the big umbrella of the ultimate commitment, the ultimate commitment between Viola Davis and Julius Tennan. It was wonderful for us to experience it until next time. I'm Phil down to you and I'm Marlow Thomas, your love, Thank you, thank you, and you got to invite us one of those fabulous parties. Double Day is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was created by US and produced by Sarah Lily. Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to Be You by Selwagon, Simfinette, Marlo and I are executive producers, along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Wiseburg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, and Bruce Kluker. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate and review. Thanks for listening,