From grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl ill two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the backs of diamond eyed school children who groom into hymnals recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the windows of restored Alchemedo cheriots. To keep the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown courts, bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of jim s. King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, wife told her daughter, and daughter told the sisters, and the ancestors told me that you would come to give you wisdom. Thus they said you would come. Dropping Roping. Welcome to the Dropping Gems podcast. I'm Debbie Brown. This is my show, and this is part two of our episode with Lisa Donovan, the founder of the pattern. Lisa is brilliant and so profoundly creative and such a beautiful soul to be in conversation with. So if you've already savored Part one. Welcome to Part two or diving even deeper, and we are going to be exploring how to use the pattern in relationship with others, how to use the pattern in dating. And I got a special story about someone that I ran my bond with that blew me l A. So let's dive right back into it. Welcome to Part two, Dropping Gems with Lisa Donovan. You blow my mind, Lisa. I just want to say, like your work is it's just I mean you you refer to it as an offering, and it really is a spectacular offering to humanity. The writing, the psychological depth and understanding, Like I just this app is just breathtaking. There's this feature that you have an app that I love and I want to talk about what you just unveiled too. But within the app there's this like beautiful configuration you can do called running bonds and it is my god, talk about a hack for life, like, oh my god. You can connect with friends on the app. You can also plug in you can create a profile for someone that is not on the app and plug in their info. I am definitely the person Lisa that hits everyone and says, Okay, what's your birth time, give me the location, the date of the time, and I'll get back to you after I run our bond. Oh, I love it. Thank you. That's how I want everybody to be you and use that how you use it. It is. It's powerful, though, because you know it's what's interesting is there will be sometimes they can be surprising, like there are people that I'm really close with that it says we actually are very unlike each other. And it's so interesting because it brings you into a space of like, okay, but see that doesn't now I know what to work with, and it brings you into grace for even more people in your life right that that feel like hardships or feel like challenges, because then you can investigate, well, what is the trigger? What is it that comes up? And I remember there there was one person in my life who we just we really like each other and we really enjoy each other, but we just without meaning to trigger the hell out of each other, like they're there are very fundamental pieces about the way that we relate to each other that feels, I think, really irritating for each of us. And then you look at it and I'm reading we both sat next to each other reading through like okay, what is this thing going on? Like why do we every so often feel this this irrational charge against each other? There? And you know, you look at our chart and it's like, well, this is how you see life and this is your path, and this is how they see life in their path. And you guys aren't doing any of this on purpose. It's just a natural element that exists. And that was incredibly free because there's nothing to fix, you know, there isn't there. It doesn't mean we have to have some big conversation about who's doing wood or how, and it doesn't need to be fixed. It's just being observed. And so now that friend and I were just like, oh, I'm like, oh girl, we you know how we trigger each other. It's fine, let's reakon being later like that's that's It's so powerful, thank you because a lot of it, I mean a lot of one I was designing it was for that, because that's what it gave me. As I started to act, I would just ask people's charts and people as friends with different issues that have people and I love to look at it and get the perspective that he said, and then I could just let it all go because I had understanding and I saw just if you said it, I mean, that's that's wonderful. That's how I hope people use it. You know, when you're you're not just googling somebody or looking at their Instagram, but you check their pattern so that you can actually get a real sense of who they are and what they're going through, maybe what they're not always showing you, and also what the dynamic is, because there are just going to be these patterns between you and people. Often we are magnetic with the things that we're needing to learn about. So you might be bringing people into your life that make you feel insecure because you do. And if you see that pattern, you see, Oh, they're a gift to me because I can look at this differently. Now, this is just the dynamic. But I'm only allowing it, you know, and I can look at it objectively. But they're not doing anything. They're not judging you at all. All this stuff you have in your head that they're thinking about you never occurred to them, you know, And yeah, I think that's a lot of it. And um, that understanding was sort of the most exciting for me to how I related to other ensure and then when you get to romantic relationships, it's, you know, the next level because all that stuff God louder, right. So so in the app, you we can run the bond for friendship and then you can run it for romance and interesting it is, you know what. I I pulled up an X in there. Yeah, and it was so beautiful because I read through the chart and I was like, oh my god, oh the grace. We should have never been together, you know, and I say that with like just so much love and grace. It's like, we should not. Our charts were not they were so not compatible. Like our charts on paper almost looked like they hated each other, you know, like like the charts just we were in all the wrong spaces. And so there was this there was this chemistry and this love that that pushes you towards to see it through anyway, because also that societal pressure and structure of like you fight for love, or you earn love, or you gotta keep going, and you know, it's a about that. And then you look and you're like, oh, the grace, Like we have very specific individual paths that we were always meant to take, and now this is complete, and that's okay, And look at my chart and look at all the other places that you know we're intended to go and be and do totally, because that's we often think the person you're supposed to be with them forever. Oftentimes they come in as an initiator really to show you something and it's not meant forever. But of course, like you said, society and what we think and fear of rejection, all these things we hold onto things that are unhealthy, and in fact they are dynamics that make you hold on. So even if you can read that this is a kind of dynamic, well, you might never let go no matter how bad it gets. That's like, you know, a big liberator to oh, I mean, you know, And it's just sometimes people come in to show you certain things. You're gonna teach each other, things you're gonna cross, and you're gonna let go. And like you said, it's that grace of like now you can let go because it's not meant for you. Not everything was meant for you. Yeah, and and understanding this is probably for a different deep dive, but you know, understanding, you know, soul contracts, karmit contracts like what would we come here to know about one another? What did we come here to know about ourselves? And you know, sometimes I found that even the most challenging relationships, it was the gift that you guys signed up for, you know, and and one chose to be of service to the other in a very specific way that sometimes feels really harmful um by our standards here, but ultimately it creates this completion cycle of oh, I'm at peace now because that lesson has been learned, and so I can release it and the pattern will not repeat. That's right, And I think that's a big part of it. We are choosing these things, and that was refrained through learning about astrology too and seeing my pattern. You know, you're very specific patterns relationships. You are choosing all of this, and maybe you're choosing this kind of pain, this sort of break you open, and maybe that's that is the point to to move me along. And so everybody I think I've ever met my life as a gift, I have zero rest anything or anyone because these are all happening because you wanted to have. It's trying to teach you something, and now it's just such a different way to look at it and then you're like, okay, good, this is what we taught each other, and now we move on, and you know, ideally you do meet somebody less longer. It's that kind of thing, but it doesn't have to be that um And that's the empowering part. You're choosing it. Nobody's doing anything to you, and you can choose it as long as you want. So if you know about that pattern and you are miserable, it is not that person's thing, you can choose differently. But that's the tough part, you know, that's the work of Once you sort of own that, you're like, can I choose differently because we're wired, and be like, can you stick with it? Or you're very comfortable with that, won't you know? You just stay? And I used to say in things years, you know, because you're that's what's comfortable and moving away from. But then your life levels up very quickly when you do. You're always you know, Oh, the way the universe responds to amazing when you choose yourself. Oh my god, when you choose yourself, when you choose your own love, the way the universe responds is so swift, so full, so beyond comprehension of anything you could have ever fathomed for yourself. It's it's remarkable and that's why you get you're not we we think very narrow, we're in control of things. We are we are co creating with things. And you see it. Just like you said, the second you make those moves, you are met. You're always met, and you're always gonna be met where you're where you're at, you know. Um. And it's just that thing. I think, if you can understand yourself and choose yourself and love yourself, you will be met. And can you trust that in a deeper, very deep way, that you will be met? Wow, you guys have branched out into dating. Please tell me about that. How does that work? Because this, to me seems like one of the greatest things that has ever been created using your chart and a dating app. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things users are always asking for from the from the beginning. Um. And I think even this last year with COVID and seeing how connections were changing, I think it before, so your hand a little sooner and let's let's get on. Let's let's let's do this, because what the app is and you've spoken about about understanding yourself and connecting with people and deeper ways. We're just sort of translating that to the dating or doing our version of that. So it's an ability to go on and ideally connect with people in a deeper, more aware, more authentic place. So you can use it like regular dating apps you're accustomed and you you know, swipe through people, but before you can connect and like and talk, you have to run the bond so you see the relationship. So you're starting from a place of like context and understanding and maybe even you'll give somebody a chance that you wouldn't otherwise because they don't look the way you want them to. But look, you've an extraordinary bond. Okay, maybe we should you know, get to know each other. So it's it's it's trying to push in a little bit that way. It's still very fun. It's why you go on, you do your thinking, all your preferences, everything's there. Who we're adding this thing of understanding your you know, compatibility and your in your relationship and your bond and and I think it adds fun but depth ideally in a fun way. You're you're going to do things in a deeper way without even realizing how deep it scary. It's really wild to think of because it makes things so so clear and so specifically useful like it it feels that it frees up so much time to be able to come in and and also allows you to disarm so much sooner, like get out of in your game plane that may exist or any awkwardness, and it's like, okay, if we can both be in our fullest authenticity from day one, what does that look like? Which is the dream? You know? That's exactly I think that's that's the idea. Can you just be you and not play these games and have these conversations? Um, And that's that's what it is for me. It's a foil for me to just have deeper conversations with people right away, you know. And so that's what the app hopefully does. Or how you use it. I love that you use it with a friend or I have couples that tell me they'll use it together and they'll read their pattern and that's the idea, so that they're being the sort of understanding deeper together. But there's sort of the safe place to do it because this third party is kind of telling you some things you know, and so ideally with dating the same thing and then when you're when you met yours only, then you can go back on the pattern and you can work on your relationship at least that you're just healing hearts and changing the world, doing my best, doing my best. What what are some like stories that people may have been sharing with you, um since you launched this app that have stucked with you or really continue to drive your purpose in doing this work. What is what has come home to you that has just really felt so aligned? Yeah, I mean it, that is what keeps you sort of going. This is a long journey, so coming on eight years, and especially you know when you're making it, you're creating it like it's like in a room writing content. You don't know, you don't know if this is just insane. You're just writing and you're like, I think it's great, you know, and like, but have I actually lost my mind? And right yeah, yeah, oh yeah, you know, and you get everything. Every friend of mine is like knows everything about astrology because you know, obsessively talking about but you don't know beyond your circle. And then it's like we got very lucky. The app was just found you know, a couple of days there's thirty thousand people in the servant where they came from. Um. And then you see, okay, wow, so this this is helpful. Great because that's the intention, right. And then there's those moments where yeah, people, whether it's friends, but then the people write in our friends, tell you a story or you you know, people know you're making the pattern. They tell you things, but it's just for me. That's what makes it worthwhile. It's the people that tell you it's it's meant something to the room when they're especially I say, people when they're going through a very hard time, this being this sort of safe place for them, um, and just kept them going in a certain way or transformed them in a way. That's it's it's just um, it makes it all worthwhile, you know, and like you know, you know, you're just trying to be in service in some way, and you're like, great, it's it's serving someone. Let's keep going because you know past you're doing. You know, there's days you're like I can thankand you this anymore. You know, I'm too tired your end. So then when you you know it actually is in service and it's telling me people you are like, all right, let's let's keep going. Let's keep going. UM. So I've there's been just so many beautiful stories and feedback just you know, people who have been UM. It's it's really help them. And that's just and that's that's it. That's the idea of sound. I'm just grateful that I am able to be of service at all. There's this fun part in the running bonds. I don't I don't think I've ever shared this, but uh, where you can pull up UM public figures and run the blond right. So I did that and it was illuminating and it really it really fulfilled something deep inside of me. So listeners know this, but I my whole life, since I was maybe ten or eleven, I've had this incredibly deep connection to Tupac, like so deep, which I know women everywhere, but listened, it was like deep deep, and so I Tupac has been a big theme of my life in many ways, in many, many, many many ways, and actually going to be featured with UM an essay and an upcoming book about his life. But the way that his spirit and energy unlocked me was really profound. The way that I experienced him playing out the full spectrum of human emotion. Um really being this beautiful blend at such a young age of revolutionary also wounded healer, also like this just exuberant force of creativity. So I ran our bond amazing? Are you ready for this? I bet he put his moon on your descendant? Is it so? Because I start and it was his chart, so I'm thinking of your chart? So what was it? What said it said? We were so? Yes? Because I bet because his mars was aquarious and not the ideal of person. I think his I think he was the ideal person for you to be the Leo is how we look at it. His moon was on You've had a past life and you had a future in action. I'm getting all this, don't know my childhould dream play so beautiful? It was? It was actually really it was so interesting because it said I it said we'd have like an epic friendship. It said that we had like many um many karma tized many past lives together and we just had so many connective points and really no frustrations, and it was just it was just interesting. I mean, I was I think I was eleven when Poc passed. Um. But I just I don't even want to make it about the romance. The way that his existence changed my life, the way that his work changed and informed how I saw the world, how I thought I was allowed to see the world, how I saw myself. He was a profound spiritual teacher for me through his music, um, and so to see that I was just like, oh, that's my soul really now deep more deeply understanding why the connection was there. So I'm like, well, maybe next lifetime we get to incarnate around the same age, and yeah, well you're from the same soul then, I mean clearly, I mean that's these I I that's when I was building this, So I look at all that kind of stuff, or anybody who was interested in somebody, i'd look up them or celebrity possess. I'll always look at that stuff because I'm always trying to, you know, look at the pattern and improves a pattern. And if you had said that, I'd be like, for sure, I happen to know his chart, so I knew her that was headed. But if I didn't, I'd be like, oh you must there are certain things they are probably at play there. There's reasons you're drawn to people and reasons you're not you know, UM. And usually without fail, there's these kinds of connections, especially if it's like that where this is somebody who is really pivotal in your development, you'd see something that was drawing into that on a soul level. UM. So I love that you did that. You're like, can I need together? You call those things like a testimony? I know. Can can we just send you all over the world time? Please? And I'm like, let me build a time machine and so I can go back in time and be like and you know time travel, right, you know time travel. And you can look at any date in your life, ideally in the past under and you can look in the future. But um, and it basically tells you what you were going through at the time, because there's cycles that are dynamics. There's your birth chart, but there's also timing, which is telling you what's happening to you at this time, what's dynamically impacting you. But you can look up, let's say there's a really important time in your life, whether it's um starting a business and parents pass things. Who knows something was very important in your life. You can look up that date and you can see what was going on there? So you understand the intention behind it. You know, Oh my god, when you meet us all me you know, there's oftentimes it's like a partner of destiny moment um. You can look those things up. Yeah, wow, I'm looking at you just like who how did you get here? Like? Now what you created is so and it's like, i mean, already seven point five million people with no vertisement are locked in in their lives are really being deepened in such powerful ways for this. But I'm like, holy cow, Like when I think about the dating component, right, it's like, what is this new generation of children who will be born from this type of compatibility? Like what is really And I'm not trying to sound dramatic, but wow, Like this offering that you've given to Earth to the world, Wow, what this is changing for millions of people. I mean at at such a core foundational level. And when we love and accept ourselves, which is what this app really gives so much deep insight into, that's when all of our gifts, all of our power, all of our connectedness to God gets unlocked in so many ways. And if we're in the world as our most authentic self, the world elevated. So wow, wow, the pathway of your destiny is so bad. Mhm wow, gosh, thank you. I don't even know. It's weird, and this will probably not make sense, but somehow it's it's its own thing. It has its own destiny, the pattern, you know, and I feel like it. I know I helped create it, but I never feel like it's mine. Do you know what I mean? It's not mine, it's everybody's. It's it's it's just it's what it is. I this is something animated. I did this at this time. This is what's happening, but it's it's everybody's and it's it's it's something that I don't even you know, when people say, oh, thank you, I don't even associate it with me. I guess it doesn't feel personal to me. It's just part of what it is, and this is what happened. And I'm just grateful, like I'm able to I was able to sort of be a part of that or whatever. I don't know how to, probably not very articulate, but I just feel you were called so beautiful. Yeah I I was. It wasn't a thinking thing. It was just annoying. I just said it one day That's what I'll be doing, all right, and then I'll go do that and then you know, Saturn keeps you on the path because you want to quit, but um, you're on it, and I'm just I'm just here to help move it along because it has its own destiny, you know, and and if I can mother it along mother of patterns, so that but that it just that, thank you so much for just it's just so kind everything you're saying. And I appreciate it the pattern, appreciate your love. It's got to feel overwhelming. I'm sure like like to know the way in which you are touching and shifting people. I'm sure it feels at a certain point just like I can't even think about it. I can't even let myself sit in this. It's too big. Yeah. I mean we never did pure Market because I didn't want to be connected to it. I didn't think if it is a personal thing. I just wanted it to be it's things. It's part of growing a business. So at a certain point I was like, this, we have to do it about more people to know about it. I Guessel have to go out there and do an article or do probably got you to do this and this has come on. Yeah, this is I feel so lucky because it's meeting people like you. You know, in my head it would be it was gonna be Um, yeah, it's just people wanting to validate like people is this and yeah, I mean and it's like, okay, look if you don't get it, we don't need to talk about it, right right. That was a big part of it also, just like it's not about me. I just wanted to create this thing, so I didn't want to And then there's that's a lot too to take on it, like the projection that could be put on you, and I just wanted to stand on its own. I'm here to support it and I'm here to move it along and and so that Yeah, when you speak to it overall, I think I I I separate from it in that way and let it have its own thing and whatever I was able to do, and right, that's what I do. That this is great, and I'm gonna push it along and it has its own destiny and I let it stand for itself and hopefully have enough separation. Um. But it was more of a fear before and now I'm saying it's it's it's really lovely and it's okay to be you know, connected to it, and I'm I'm okay, you know it's it's it's not as overwhelming now. I don't think I could have done it four years ago. It's like being more you know, yeah they connected to it, if that makes sense. But yeah, yeah, you know you were you were one of the early adopters and pioneers of YouTube and a video content creation and a really big way before content actually been had a name. Um And then when I think of you constructing the pattern like the things that are the things that we're talking about freely. Now, for some they're still going to be like what, But for the majority of people, like new language has been established, like we the past couple of years have been such an accelerator for this space for wellness as a whole, for healing as a whole. So we've all come into some type of foundation with each other, I think quickly. But I mean, you've been working on this for so many years when people would probably say something like is that witchcraft? Or you know people just like not get it and be so close to it, and so kind of seeing that pattern within your life of being really really early to the things that are so paradigm shifting and transformational. Um, what is that experience? Like, I mean you've kind of now three different times hit the nail on the head in really substantial ways. Yeah, it's so, it's so fun I mean, yeah, you just so you spoke YouTube just didn't nobody knew what it was. Nobody did anybody of what I was talking about. It was such a moment in time. Of course, you can't. I mean I didn't even understand that concept of people commenting on a video didn't exists or like what you know, So it was Yeah, it was sort of being at that place at that time and embracing it or you know, putting in those ten thousand hours at that time. Um, and I guess it's it's funny at the time, everything feels normal when you're doing it. It feels obvious. It's like, oh, don't you see, this is what's gonna happened, you know, And and everything that happens happens later than you think you think it's gonna happen, bester than you know. You have to you have to stick hang in there, and you spend a lot of time convinced people of like, no, this this platform is great. You see how great it is? Um, And maybe that's the Gemini and me too have like it's it's fun to do things that are I don't know anything about, and and it is something that again sort of has just animated in me. So I follow that and it was just authentic at the time. And then finding astrology that was just that was just the natural progression. It wasn't a thought, it wasn't overthinking. It was just what it was. And I was designing it because it was a time when people were astrologies having a moment now where it's it's being embraced, but back then it wasn't. So I was designing it for people so that they didn't have to worry about that astrology stuff, you know. And I had that in mind. I knew it was sort of early and it's just you know, I guess, following your gut, following your intuition. I feel like, um, that's been my greatest Um, save your gift. You know, that intuitive whisper, that intuitive voice and just keeps you going, keeps you on the right path. Let's you know when it's time to get off of something when it's been enough where to go? And I don't know, you know, I it's a lot of these things aren't um logical thinking things. These are whatever spirit intuition just moving through you and just where you need to be now, you know, you move on and and letting go to when things are I think that's I let go easily because I'm like, let's see what's what's next, you know, and so let's go there, and that's a let's see what's going on there? And you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's a good question. I have no idea how this has happened. But here I am and it's a different path, you know, and it's not maybe it's traditional and certain things get sacrificed for it, but it's just it's it's authentic to me and then it's me and I love being alive, being here and it feels good. M Something you just said, I think is where I would love to anchor this to end for everyone is we talk a lot about intuition, and it is really understandable why so many of us may find ourselves disconnected from our intuition because society and all of the structures that play our curriculum or families of origin like very often our gaslighting us for lack of which takes you away from your intuition, which that natural, beautiful intuition and guidance you came to Earth with slowly moves farther and far away from you, and you begin to be in a place where you don't believe you can trust yourself. And I think something that is so beautiful about doing the work, in any work um is that you begin to reconnect to that. But especially the pattern is such a beautiful resource for reminding yourself that you can trust yourself when you are looking at these patterns that play like this, This act can be used for so much fun, but it's also a powerful tool, I think, to build your spiritual confidence the things that you innately knew or believed about yourself that weren't quantified or validated. And the outside world you read it and you are seeing your herd. You're understood, and then you can take a breath because you realize nothing is wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing that you're doing or not doing. Now you know your curriculum, So how do you want to play the cards? That you've been given. How do you want to co create your life? Um, that's it. I mean I don't think I could ever say it as well as you said. That's the that's the hope. So that the intention of this thing. And you know, I lost touch with my intuition for many years and it's helped me bring back. So I think what you're saying, and it is exactly. It's just hopefully it's connecting people back to their truth and get them on a past to just trust themselves. That's it, you know, Lisa, I am. I'm so grateful for your time today, and I am so grateful for your work. I'm so grateful for your life path. This is so powerful. Thank you, thank you. Thank You's right back at you. You're amazing and the work you're doing is amazing, and I'm so grateful you had me on this podcast and I just love talking to you and your incredible person and thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Love loves I know, love truly. Okay, let a show. Thank you so much for joining, Thank you so much for really holding space for this conversation and for some soul work. As we end this show, I really encourage everyone um, if you haven't already download the pattern, take a few moments to plug in your information, locate your birth certificate, that's where your birth time is, ask your parents. UM, but plugging your info and just start playing around with it. You don't have to read through everything right now, and you don't have to understand everything right now, but really really take a beat and sink your teeth into reading through some of the patterning, some of the themes, some of the expressions that you may be seen in your birth chart, and just spend a couple of days with it and see what starts to apply, what starts to fit, what's giving you some deeper insights. And I highly recommend as you do this, having a journal handy and just jotting down different thoughts, jotting down different nahas, jotting down noticings of when this is feeling really aligned with who you know yourself to be, or some deeper themes that you may have been playing with. As always, big thank you for listening, and if you have not yet, UM, I just want to encourage you and thank you in advance for leaving a five star review and taking a second to type up a review. So big love to everyone. Hit me on the gram at Debbie Brown. You connect with Lisa Donovan on the Gram at Mother of Patterns, Big Love, and I'm Must Stay Hey. Find me on social Let's connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping Jim's is the production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jack Quease and me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

From grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl ill two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the backs of diamond eyed school children who groom into hymnals recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the windows of restored Alchemedo cheriots. To keep the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown courts, bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of jim s. King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, wife told her daughter, and daughter told the sisters, and the ancestors told me that you would come to give you wisdom. Thus they said you would come. Dropping Roping. Welcome to the Dropping Gems podcast. I'm Debbie Brown. This is my show, and this is part two of our episode with Lisa Donovan, the founder of the pattern. Lisa is brilliant and so profoundly creative and such a beautiful soul to be in conversation with. So if you've already savored Part one. Welcome to Part two or diving even deeper, and we are going to be exploring how to use the pattern in relationship with others, how to use the pattern in dating. And I got a special story about someone that I ran my bond with that blew me l A. So let's dive right back into it. Welcome to Part two, Dropping Gems with Lisa Donovan. You blow my mind, Lisa. I just want to say, like your work is it's just I mean you you refer to it as an offering, and it really is a spectacular offering to humanity. The writing, the psychological depth and understanding, Like I just this app is just breathtaking. There's this feature that you have an app that I love and I want to talk about what you just unveiled too. But within the app there's this like beautiful configuration you can do called running bonds and it is my god, talk about a hack for life, like, oh my god. You can connect with friends on the app. You can also plug in you can create a profile for someone that is not on the app and plug in their info. I am definitely the person Lisa that hits everyone and says, Okay, what's your birth time, give me the location, the date of the time, and I'll get back to you after I run our bond. Oh, I love it. Thank you. That's how I want everybody to be you and use that how you use it. It is. It's powerful, though, because you know it's what's interesting is there will be sometimes they can be surprising, like there are people that I'm really close with that it says we actually are very unlike each other. And it's so interesting because it brings you into a space of like, okay, but see that doesn't now I know what to work with, and it brings you into grace for even more people in your life right that that feel like hardships or feel like challenges, because then you can investigate, well, what is the trigger? What is it that comes up? And I remember there there was one person in my life who we just we really like each other and we really enjoy each other, but we just without meaning to trigger the hell out of each other, like they're there are very fundamental pieces about the way that we relate to each other that feels, I think, really irritating for each of us. And then you look at it and I'm reading we both sat next to each other reading through like okay, what is this thing going on? Like why do we every so often feel this this irrational charge against each other? There? And you know, you look at our chart and it's like, well, this is how you see life and this is your path, and this is how they see life in their path. And you guys aren't doing any of this on purpose. It's just a natural element that exists. And that was incredibly free because there's nothing to fix, you know, there isn't there. It doesn't mean we have to have some big conversation about who's doing wood or how, and it doesn't need to be fixed. It's just being observed. And so now that friend and I were just like, oh, I'm like, oh girl, we you know how we trigger each other. It's fine, let's reakon being later like that's that's It's so powerful, thank you because a lot of it, I mean a lot of one I was designing it was for that, because that's what it gave me. As I started to act, I would just ask people's charts and people as friends with different issues that have people and I love to look at it and get the perspective that he said, and then I could just let it all go because I had understanding and I saw just if you said it, I mean, that's that's wonderful. That's how I hope people use it. You know, when you're you're not just googling somebody or looking at their Instagram, but you check their pattern so that you can actually get a real sense of who they are and what they're going through, maybe what they're not always showing you, and also what the dynamic is, because there are just going to be these patterns between you and people. Often we are magnetic with the things that we're needing to learn about. So you might be bringing people into your life that make you feel insecure because you do. And if you see that pattern, you see, Oh, they're a gift to me because I can look at this differently. Now, this is just the dynamic. But I'm only allowing it, you know, and I can look at it objectively. But they're not doing anything. They're not judging you at all. All this stuff you have in your head that they're thinking about you never occurred to them, you know, And yeah, I think that's a lot of it. And um, that understanding was sort of the most exciting for me to how I related to other ensure and then when you get to romantic relationships, it's, you know, the next level because all that stuff God louder, right. So so in the app, you we can run the bond for friendship and then you can run it for romance and interesting it is, you know what. I I pulled up an X in there. Yeah, and it was so beautiful because I read through the chart and I was like, oh my god, oh the grace. We should have never been together, you know, and I say that with like just so much love and grace. It's like, we should not. Our charts were not they were so not compatible. Like our charts on paper almost looked like they hated each other, you know, like like the charts just we were in all the wrong spaces. And so there was this there was this chemistry and this love that that pushes you towards to see it through anyway, because also that societal pressure and structure of like you fight for love, or you earn love, or you gotta keep going, and you know, it's a about that. And then you look and you're like, oh, the grace, Like we have very specific individual paths that we were always meant to take, and now this is complete, and that's okay, And look at my chart and look at all the other places that you know we're intended to go and be and do totally, because that's we often think the person you're supposed to be with them forever. Oftentimes they come in as an initiator really to show you something and it's not meant forever. But of course, like you said, society and what we think and fear of rejection, all these things we hold onto things that are unhealthy, and in fact they are dynamics that make you hold on. So even if you can read that this is a kind of dynamic, well, you might never let go no matter how bad it gets. That's like, you know, a big liberator to oh, I mean, you know, And it's just sometimes people come in to show you certain things. You're gonna teach each other, things you're gonna cross, and you're gonna let go. And like you said, it's that grace of like now you can let go because it's not meant for you. Not everything was meant for you. Yeah, and and understanding this is probably for a different deep dive, but you know, understanding, you know, soul contracts, karmit contracts like what would we come here to know about one another? What did we come here to know about ourselves? And you know, sometimes I found that even the most challenging relationships, it was the gift that you guys signed up for, you know, and and one chose to be of service to the other in a very specific way that sometimes feels really harmful um by our standards here, but ultimately it creates this completion cycle of oh, I'm at peace now because that lesson has been learned, and so I can release it and the pattern will not repeat. That's right, And I think that's a big part of it. We are choosing these things, and that was refrained through learning about astrology too and seeing my pattern. You know, you're very specific patterns relationships. You are choosing all of this, and maybe you're choosing this kind of pain, this sort of break you open, and maybe that's that is the point to to move me along. And so everybody I think I've ever met my life as a gift, I have zero rest anything or anyone because these are all happening because you wanted to have. It's trying to teach you something, and now it's just such a different way to look at it and then you're like, okay, good, this is what we taught each other, and now we move on, and you know, ideally you do meet somebody less longer. It's that kind of thing, but it doesn't have to be that um And that's the empowering part. You're choosing it. Nobody's doing anything to you, and you can choose it as long as you want. So if you know about that pattern and you are miserable, it is not that person's thing, you can choose differently. But that's the tough part, you know, that's the work of Once you sort of own that, you're like, can I choose differently because we're wired, and be like, can you stick with it? Or you're very comfortable with that, won't you know? You just stay? And I used to say in things years, you know, because you're that's what's comfortable and moving away from. But then your life levels up very quickly when you do. You're always you know, Oh, the way the universe responds to amazing when you choose yourself. Oh my god, when you choose yourself, when you choose your own love, the way the universe responds is so swift, so full, so beyond comprehension of anything you could have ever fathomed for yourself. It's it's remarkable and that's why you get you're not we we think very narrow, we're in control of things. We are we are co creating with things. And you see it. Just like you said, the second you make those moves, you are met. You're always met, and you're always gonna be met where you're where you're at, you know. Um. And it's just that thing. I think, if you can understand yourself and choose yourself and love yourself, you will be met. And can you trust that in a deeper, very deep way, that you will be met? Wow, you guys have branched out into dating. Please tell me about that. How does that work? Because this, to me seems like one of the greatest things that has ever been created using your chart and a dating app. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things users are always asking for from the from the beginning. Um. And I think even this last year with COVID and seeing how connections were changing, I think it before, so your hand a little sooner and let's let's get on. Let's let's let's do this, because what the app is and you've spoken about about understanding yourself and connecting with people and deeper ways. We're just sort of translating that to the dating or doing our version of that. So it's an ability to go on and ideally connect with people in a deeper, more aware, more authentic place. So you can use it like regular dating apps you're accustomed and you you know, swipe through people, but before you can connect and like and talk, you have to run the bond so you see the relationship. So you're starting from a place of like context and understanding and maybe even you'll give somebody a chance that you wouldn't otherwise because they don't look the way you want them to. But look, you've an extraordinary bond. Okay, maybe we should you know, get to know each other. So it's it's it's trying to push in a little bit that way. It's still very fun. It's why you go on, you do your thinking, all your preferences, everything's there. Who we're adding this thing of understanding your you know, compatibility and your in your relationship and your bond and and I think it adds fun but depth ideally in a fun way. You're you're going to do things in a deeper way without even realizing how deep it scary. It's really wild to think of because it makes things so so clear and so specifically useful like it it feels that it frees up so much time to be able to come in and and also allows you to disarm so much sooner, like get out of in your game plane that may exist or any awkwardness, and it's like, okay, if we can both be in our fullest authenticity from day one, what does that look like? Which is the dream? You know? That's exactly I think that's that's the idea. Can you just be you and not play these games and have these conversations? Um, And that's that's what it is for me. It's a foil for me to just have deeper conversations with people right away, you know. And so that's what the app hopefully does. Or how you use it. I love that you use it with a friend or I have couples that tell me they'll use it together and they'll read their pattern and that's the idea, so that they're being the sort of understanding deeper together. But there's sort of the safe place to do it because this third party is kind of telling you some things you know, and so ideally with dating the same thing and then when you're when you met yours only, then you can go back on the pattern and you can work on your relationship at least that you're just healing hearts and changing the world, doing my best, doing my best. What what are some like stories that people may have been sharing with you, um since you launched this app that have stucked with you or really continue to drive your purpose in doing this work. What is what has come home to you that has just really felt so aligned? Yeah, I mean it, that is what keeps you sort of going. This is a long journey, so coming on eight years, and especially you know when you're making it, you're creating it like it's like in a room writing content. You don't know, you don't know if this is just insane. You're just writing and you're like, I think it's great, you know, and like, but have I actually lost my mind? And right yeah, yeah, oh yeah, you know, and you get everything. Every friend of mine is like knows everything about astrology because you know, obsessively talking about but you don't know beyond your circle. And then it's like we got very lucky. The app was just found you know, a couple of days there's thirty thousand people in the servant where they came from. Um. And then you see, okay, wow, so this this is helpful. Great because that's the intention, right. And then there's those moments where yeah, people, whether it's friends, but then the people write in our friends, tell you a story or you you know, people know you're making the pattern. They tell you things, but it's just for me. That's what makes it worthwhile. It's the people that tell you it's it's meant something to the room when they're especially I say, people when they're going through a very hard time, this being this sort of safe place for them, um, and just kept them going in a certain way or transformed them in a way. That's it's it's just um, it makes it all worthwhile, you know, and like you know, you know, you're just trying to be in service in some way, and you're like, great, it's it's serving someone. Let's keep going because you know past you're doing. You know, there's days you're like I can thankand you this anymore. You know, I'm too tired your end. So then when you you know it actually is in service and it's telling me people you are like, all right, let's let's keep going. Let's keep going. UM. So I've there's been just so many beautiful stories and feedback just you know, people who have been UM. It's it's really help them. And that's just and that's that's it. That's the idea of sound. I'm just grateful that I am able to be of service at all. There's this fun part in the running bonds. I don't I don't think I've ever shared this, but uh, where you can pull up UM public figures and run the blond right. So I did that and it was illuminating and it really it really fulfilled something deep inside of me. So listeners know this, but I my whole life, since I was maybe ten or eleven, I've had this incredibly deep connection to Tupac, like so deep, which I know women everywhere, but listened, it was like deep deep, and so I Tupac has been a big theme of my life in many ways, in many, many, many many ways, and actually going to be featured with UM an essay and an upcoming book about his life. But the way that his spirit and energy unlocked me was really profound. The way that I experienced him playing out the full spectrum of human emotion. Um really being this beautiful blend at such a young age of revolutionary also wounded healer, also like this just exuberant force of creativity. So I ran our bond amazing? Are you ready for this? I bet he put his moon on your descendant? Is it so? Because I start and it was his chart, so I'm thinking of your chart? So what was it? What said it said? We were so? Yes? Because I bet because his mars was aquarious and not the ideal of person. I think his I think he was the ideal person for you to be the Leo is how we look at it. His moon was on You've had a past life and you had a future in action. I'm getting all this, don't know my childhould dream play so beautiful? It was? It was actually really it was so interesting because it said I it said we'd have like an epic friendship. It said that we had like many um many karma tized many past lives together and we just had so many connective points and really no frustrations, and it was just it was just interesting. I mean, I was I think I was eleven when Poc passed. Um. But I just I don't even want to make it about the romance. The way that his existence changed my life, the way that his work changed and informed how I saw the world, how I thought I was allowed to see the world, how I saw myself. He was a profound spiritual teacher for me through his music, um, and so to see that I was just like, oh, that's my soul really now deep more deeply understanding why the connection was there. So I'm like, well, maybe next lifetime we get to incarnate around the same age, and yeah, well you're from the same soul then, I mean clearly, I mean that's these I I that's when I was building this, So I look at all that kind of stuff, or anybody who was interested in somebody, i'd look up them or celebrity possess. I'll always look at that stuff because I'm always trying to, you know, look at the pattern and improves a pattern. And if you had said that, I'd be like, for sure, I happen to know his chart, so I knew her that was headed. But if I didn't, I'd be like, oh you must there are certain things they are probably at play there. There's reasons you're drawn to people and reasons you're not you know, UM. And usually without fail, there's these kinds of connections, especially if it's like that where this is somebody who is really pivotal in your development, you'd see something that was drawing into that on a soul level. UM. So I love that you did that. You're like, can I need together? You call those things like a testimony? I know. Can can we just send you all over the world time? Please? And I'm like, let me build a time machine and so I can go back in time and be like and you know time travel, right, you know time travel. And you can look at any date in your life, ideally in the past under and you can look in the future. But um, and it basically tells you what you were going through at the time, because there's cycles that are dynamics. There's your birth chart, but there's also timing, which is telling you what's happening to you at this time, what's dynamically impacting you. But you can look up, let's say there's a really important time in your life, whether it's um starting a business and parents pass things. Who knows something was very important in your life. You can look up that date and you can see what was going on there? So you understand the intention behind it. You know, Oh my god, when you meet us all me you know, there's oftentimes it's like a partner of destiny moment um. You can look those things up. Yeah, wow, I'm looking at you just like who how did you get here? Like? Now what you created is so and it's like, i mean, already seven point five million people with no vertisement are locked in in their lives are really being deepened in such powerful ways for this. But I'm like, holy cow, Like when I think about the dating component, right, it's like, what is this new generation of children who will be born from this type of compatibility? Like what is really And I'm not trying to sound dramatic, but wow, Like this offering that you've given to Earth to the world, Wow, what this is changing for millions of people. I mean at at such a core foundational level. And when we love and accept ourselves, which is what this app really gives so much deep insight into, that's when all of our gifts, all of our power, all of our connectedness to God gets unlocked in so many ways. And if we're in the world as our most authentic self, the world elevated. So wow, wow, the pathway of your destiny is so bad. Mhm wow, gosh, thank you. I don't even know. It's weird, and this will probably not make sense, but somehow it's it's its own thing. It has its own destiny, the pattern, you know, and I feel like it. I know I helped create it, but I never feel like it's mine. Do you know what I mean? It's not mine, it's everybody's. It's it's it's just it's what it is. I this is something animated. I did this at this time. This is what's happening, but it's it's everybody's and it's it's it's something that I don't even you know, when people say, oh, thank you, I don't even associate it with me. I guess it doesn't feel personal to me. It's just part of what it is, and this is what happened. And I'm just grateful, like I'm able to I was able to sort of be a part of that or whatever. I don't know how to, probably not very articulate, but I just feel you were called so beautiful. Yeah I I was. It wasn't a thinking thing. It was just annoying. I just said it one day That's what I'll be doing, all right, and then I'll go do that and then you know, Saturn keeps you on the path because you want to quit, but um, you're on it, and I'm just I'm just here to help move it along because it has its own destiny, you know, and and if I can mother it along mother of patterns, so that but that it just that, thank you so much for just it's just so kind everything you're saying. And I appreciate it the pattern, appreciate your love. It's got to feel overwhelming. I'm sure like like to know the way in which you are touching and shifting people. I'm sure it feels at a certain point just like I can't even think about it. I can't even let myself sit in this. It's too big. Yeah. I mean we never did pure Market because I didn't want to be connected to it. I didn't think if it is a personal thing. I just wanted it to be it's things. It's part of growing a business. So at a certain point I was like, this, we have to do it about more people to know about it. I Guessel have to go out there and do an article or do probably got you to do this and this has come on. Yeah, this is I feel so lucky because it's meeting people like you. You know, in my head it would be it was gonna be Um, yeah, it's just people wanting to validate like people is this and yeah, I mean and it's like, okay, look if you don't get it, we don't need to talk about it, right right. That was a big part of it also, just like it's not about me. I just wanted to create this thing, so I didn't want to And then there's that's a lot too to take on it, like the projection that could be put on you, and I just wanted to stand on its own. I'm here to support it and I'm here to move it along and and so that Yeah, when you speak to it overall, I think I I I separate from it in that way and let it have its own thing and whatever I was able to do, and right, that's what I do. That this is great, and I'm gonna push it along and it has its own destiny and I let it stand for itself and hopefully have enough separation. Um. But it was more of a fear before and now I'm saying it's it's it's really lovely and it's okay to be you know, connected to it, and I'm I'm okay, you know it's it's it's not as overwhelming now. I don't think I could have done it four years ago. It's like being more you know, yeah they connected to it, if that makes sense. But yeah, yeah, you know you were you were one of the early adopters and pioneers of YouTube and a video content creation and a really big way before content actually been had a name. Um And then when I think of you constructing the pattern like the things that are the things that we're talking about freely. Now, for some they're still going to be like what, But for the majority of people, like new language has been established, like we the past couple of years have been such an accelerator for this space for wellness as a whole, for healing as a whole. So we've all come into some type of foundation with each other, I think quickly. But I mean, you've been working on this for so many years when people would probably say something like is that witchcraft? Or you know people just like not get it and be so close to it, and so kind of seeing that pattern within your life of being really really early to the things that are so paradigm shifting and transformational. Um, what is that experience? Like, I mean you've kind of now three different times hit the nail on the head in really substantial ways. Yeah, it's so, it's so fun I mean, yeah, you just so you spoke YouTube just didn't nobody knew what it was. Nobody did anybody of what I was talking about. It was such a moment in time. Of course, you can't. I mean I didn't even understand that concept of people commenting on a video didn't exists or like what you know, So it was Yeah, it was sort of being at that place at that time and embracing it or you know, putting in those ten thousand hours at that time. Um, and I guess it's it's funny at the time, everything feels normal when you're doing it. It feels obvious. It's like, oh, don't you see, this is what's gonna happened, you know, And and everything that happens happens later than you think you think it's gonna happen, bester than you know. You have to you have to stick hang in there, and you spend a lot of time convinced people of like, no, this this platform is great. You see how great it is? Um, And maybe that's the Gemini and me too have like it's it's fun to do things that are I don't know anything about, and and it is something that again sort of has just animated in me. So I follow that and it was just authentic at the time. And then finding astrology that was just that was just the natural progression. It wasn't a thought, it wasn't overthinking. It was just what it was. And I was designing it because it was a time when people were astrologies having a moment now where it's it's being embraced, but back then it wasn't. So I was designing it for people so that they didn't have to worry about that astrology stuff, you know. And I had that in mind. I knew it was sort of early and it's just you know, I guess, following your gut, following your intuition. I feel like, um, that's been my greatest Um, save your gift. You know, that intuitive whisper, that intuitive voice and just keeps you going, keeps you on the right path. Let's you know when it's time to get off of something when it's been enough where to go? And I don't know, you know, I it's a lot of these things aren't um logical thinking things. These are whatever spirit intuition just moving through you and just where you need to be now, you know, you move on and and letting go to when things are I think that's I let go easily because I'm like, let's see what's what's next, you know, and so let's go there, and that's a let's see what's going on there? And you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's a good question. I have no idea how this has happened. But here I am and it's a different path, you know, and it's not maybe it's traditional and certain things get sacrificed for it, but it's just it's it's authentic to me and then it's me and I love being alive, being here and it feels good. M Something you just said, I think is where I would love to anchor this to end for everyone is we talk a lot about intuition, and it is really understandable why so many of us may find ourselves disconnected from our intuition because society and all of the structures that play our curriculum or families of origin like very often our gaslighting us for lack of which takes you away from your intuition, which that natural, beautiful intuition and guidance you came to Earth with slowly moves farther and far away from you, and you begin to be in a place where you don't believe you can trust yourself. And I think something that is so beautiful about doing the work, in any work um is that you begin to reconnect to that. But especially the pattern is such a beautiful resource for reminding yourself that you can trust yourself when you are looking at these patterns that play like this, This act can be used for so much fun, but it's also a powerful tool, I think, to build your spiritual confidence the things that you innately knew or believed about yourself that weren't quantified or validated. And the outside world you read it and you are seeing your herd. You're understood, and then you can take a breath because you realize nothing is wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing that you're doing or not doing. Now you know your curriculum, So how do you want to play the cards? That you've been given. How do you want to co create your life? Um, that's it. I mean I don't think I could ever say it as well as you said. That's the that's the hope. So that the intention of this thing. And you know, I lost touch with my intuition for many years and it's helped me bring back. So I think what you're saying, and it is exactly. It's just hopefully it's connecting people back to their truth and get them on a past to just trust themselves. That's it, you know, Lisa, I am. I'm so grateful for your time today, and I am so grateful for your work. I'm so grateful for your life path. This is so powerful. Thank you, thank you. Thank You's right back at you. You're amazing and the work you're doing is amazing, and I'm so grateful you had me on this podcast and I just love talking to you and your incredible person and thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Love loves I know, love truly. Okay, let a show. Thank you so much for joining, Thank you so much for really holding space for this conversation and for some soul work. As we end this show, I really encourage everyone um, if you haven't already download the pattern, take a few moments to plug in your information, locate your birth certificate, that's where your birth time is, ask your parents. UM, but plugging your info and just start playing around with it. You don't have to read through everything right now, and you don't have to understand everything right now, but really really take a beat and sink your teeth into reading through some of the patterning, some of the themes, some of the expressions that you may be seen in your birth chart, and just spend a couple of days with it and see what starts to apply, what starts to fit, what's giving you some deeper insights. And I highly recommend as you do this, having a journal handy and just jotting down different thoughts, jotting down different nahas, jotting down noticings of when this is feeling really aligned with who you know yourself to be, or some deeper themes that you may have been playing with. As always, big thank you for listening, and if you have not yet, UM, I just want to encourage you and thank you in advance for leaving a five star review and taking a second to type up a review. So big love to everyone. Hit me on the gram at Debbie Brown. You connect with Lisa Donovan on the Gram at Mother of Patterns, Big Love, and I'm Must Stay Hey. Find me on social Let's connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping Jim's is the production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jack Quease and me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.