M from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the windows of restored alchimedo cheriots to keep the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer, be every form of Jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is. And the ancestors told me that you would come to give wisdom. Thousands. They said you would come Dropping Dropping Gym. Hey, welcome back. It's the Dropping Jim's podcast. I am Debbie Brown. Thank you so much for joining us again. This week. We are deep diving into astrology today, but specifically our birth charts and even more specifically the absolutely incredible app that seven point five million people are using to get more deeply connected with themselves. Today we are talking to the creator of the pattern. I'm really excited for today's conversation. UM. Something I've shared on this show, something I speak to quite a bit on my Instagram and uh, within my social circles in my life. UM, is the really beautiful gift that is astrology. I think so many of us were used to seeing astrology through one particular lens, through the Western astrology lens, for so long, which is the kind of back of the magazine, you know, the quick little tidbits of today. You'll have them luck, or you might get this, or you might get that. And the thing that is so beautiful about astrology is I really believe it to be such a powerful spiritual teacher and such a tool for awakening and enlightenment. I believe that astrology is a spiritual science. And the way that astrology works, especially in the in the sense of your birth chart, is it is so deeply connected to the location you were born, the time you were born, and the wind that you were born, and all of the ways that that can inform your life path and give you a clear lens within which to view yourself, view your life, and view the curriculum or the patterns that are at play with you. So on today's show, I'll be speaking with Lisa Donovan. Now, Lisa has had such a fascinating and expansive life. Before online face was a thing, and before YouTube was even the megap platform that it is now, there was a small group of digital pioneers, and Lisa Donovan was one of them. She was on the forefront of online content way back in two thousand and five, and she started one of the first and most successful YouTube content channels on the site, which then led to many jobs in mainstream Hollywood. But she decided to go a completely different route. So utilizing so much of that beautiful online experience that she had, Lisa co founded and served as a board member for Maker Studios Next, which was the next generation talent focused technology and media company. She did huge things with that. It sold to Disney, and then she really anchored into a deeper service, a deeper path creating the pattern. So confronted with a really harsh reality that the foundation of much of what she thought she knew was slipping away. Making so many of those pivots and really big transitions, Lisa began a long journey of self discovery that became the impetus for her endeavor. The pattern born from both personal experience. During this challenging time, Lisa focused all of her efforts on creating something that could help others feel seen, understood, and supported, especially in times of perceived struggle or deep challenge, and while living in her childhood bedroom, she passionately wrote every single passage in the app, which was a labor of love that Lisa had spent over six years developing before this type of information was easily accessible to all. This app is rooted in astrology, and it guides and empowers you to achieve a higher level of consciousness and acceptance of your authentic self. The pattern unlocks the keys to your personality traits by providing a breakdown of the ways in which you operate in the world and relate to others. So go ahead and get comfortable. We're doing this in two parts. Download the app so you can play along with it as we're going through it and get ready to maybe meet yourself more deeply or get a mini master class and how to understand how this could potentially be a really useful tool to you on your journey. And I gotta I gotta give you guys a little behind the curtain of this episode. We ran into almost a twenty minute stand still trying to have this conversation, and Lisa was so gracious and so amazing about sticking with us through our technical difficulty. So I am I'm so excited to finally be sharing UM and able to start impacking this conversation. Lisa. Thank you so much, Lisa Donovan, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful to be here. And I feel like we just went through something together. I know, we just bound difficulties, really bonded for life, for life, We bonded in such a deep way and just I mean, I gotta say your level of graciousness and grace through that was so beautiful, UM, And so I am really grateful. Wow, we worked well together. I have been so looking forward to this conversation and I'm like, I don't even know where to start. I live by my chart, and something that I've talked about on this show is, you know, I really, I really experience astrology as a spiritual science, as one of the most profound tools you could invite into your life. And the way that I experienced it it. It really feels like and I don't believe in these terms like life hacks or cheat code, but that's exactly what it feels like. UM. And it's just the way you have designed this. It's it's so profound, like it's so beautiful and the way that you interpret the chart. I'm a big believer that people UM can only use their gifts as deeply as their healing has come through and so work like this, but it's really divine translations. And the way that you translate this divine work is so so not just beautiful, but it become such a profoundly useful tool. UM. You may feel I don't even know what to say. I feel like I'm just gonna walk offs. It's enough, you know, I thank you so much, God, and I and there and there's so many things that we're going to get into about your life. Your life is absolutely fascinating, your path, But first let's start here. How did you first connect to astrology? I just gotta chill everything you're saying, because I agree with you everything you say about astrology. And I was not somebody who grew up maybe in a spiritual home or where UM astrology would have been sort of on the agenda at all. Everything was logic and we can rationalize that and we can think about that. Um. So it came to me a little bit later, you know, it came to me when my life, Um, you know, I was needing some challenges. My life kind of took sort of drastic turns and everything turned upside down. Everything I understood about it, my my ego, my personality, how I thought things were going to be, the people I thought i'd be with, the business I was running, the life I was going to live. Um, it was just gone very quickly, and I was gonna have to kind of start from scratch. And you know that's when these things come to you, right. I just it was just random. Someone was talking about it and I said, oh, I'd like to try that, which I don't think I ever would have in the past. You know, maybe I wouldn't have needed that. I would have been open to it when have hurt it. So it came at the right time, and I probably had preconceived notions about it. Again, it was sort of trapped in the mind about everything and I had this reading and it was a complete sort of psychological breakdown, an emotional breakdown of who I was, all the things I've felt my whole life, certain insecurities, certain fears. It was so specific to and what I was going throughout that time. It was sort of a revelation, what is this? You know? It almost felt like magic or that it's not magic, it's spirit, right, It's being open to the world that I was not connected to. Not that it wasn't knocking out my door all the time, or that now that I look back, it was there always, but but um, this was my entry into it and changing my life completely. This is eight years ago and being more on you know, I hate these terms to the path that were, but being on it and like, wow, okay, well this is a different way to live and be a bit more you know, aware, And it allowed me to go very deeply into what I was going through and to process and understand sort of my pain and my joys and my strengths and my fears and my wounds, and um, it just blew me away. And that was sort of you know, had experienced that's tool at this very challenging time is what gave birth to the pattern. I was like, everyone needs to all about this to people people, because I had the oh, it's cheesy, and how can everybody born in the month of June be the same person and having the same thing, which, of course it's not. It's much more specific when you get into it, and it's really um you know, you're mooning your venus and all these specific things, and it's really dialed into you. And I was like, I gotta figure out a way to like get this to everybody and get rid of what kept me away from it for so many years and bring it down to like two Earth where it can be sort of translated. I say, I want to translate it and make it accessible. And then you know this is going seven eight years ago and then years and years and years what that journey would be, which I thought it'd easy. I was like, I'll just do this. It's like I'm gonna take a long time, and here we are. You know what I would love to to unravel for the audience is like I think when people are starting to hear about using your chart, they're they're thinking of it in the structure of the back of the magazine or like those little scrolls at the front of the grocery aisle where it's like of western astrology, which is really based on your son and it's all about you know, and today girl put on a little extra lipstick or and this is you know, it's like and I was always drawn to astrology, but when I used to read those, I'm like, what does this mean? Like how do I actually apply this to be useful and not just feel like a like a game or like you know, just a little like fun um. But your birth chart, like your chart chart when you're going through your house is and you got your moon and your sun and your rising and your venus. And the way that I experience is it helps you understand the greater story at play about your life. You know, you're able to really zoom out and look at life as a vertical And for me it really represented as I was able to see the the patterns no pun intended, Yeah, but you're able to see the patterns at play so that you can work with them as tools. And I think so many of us we get caught in this psycho. Why does this keep happening to me? Oh I had this happened to me, Then that person did it too. When I was a kid, this happened, It still happens. We look at it as as the system of personalization of all that we're doing wrong or what what is so wrong about us that we're drawing this to us. And that's what I think is so beautiful about the pattern and so beautiful about living with your chart, is that it it really lets you know this is not an against no for you, This is not a judgment for you, this is not a punishment, this is this is what we signed up for. And being able to zoom out, it's like, oh, of course, this is how my life is unfolding. Okay, now that I see that, let me get on the path with intention. Let me get on the path with a co creation, a way of being with it, so that I'm designing my life, in a word, in swift, Because when you design your life in accordance with your chart, it's like you unlock this insanely beautiful flow. I mean, you just spoke about it so beautifully. I can't even imagine adding to this, I really, but you said it is so powerful and how I feel it's really aligned with and that's what it was for me or what it is for me, And I felt like it could be a tool for empowering you. I think the way we think of astrology is sort of predictive. This is what you were saying, is, you know, don't go to the store today, do this, do that, very you know, it's really just to sell newspapers and to sort of you know, here's your sun sign, here's you know you need to know this week. There's something much deeper. This wisdom is ancient, it's you know, it's this universe we're living in. I think the idea of it is to be a tool for empowerment, not dissempowering you. And I think what you said is exactly it by getting very objective, because I think we spend our lives very narrow. All we know is what's year and what's around us. And we started comparing ourselves. Why don't I know this? Why am I not more like this? And we don't sort of own our path and our truth. And I think that's it. That's sort of you know, disconnect from sort of the soul tight and the personality. Right that Gary's you cough. You know, when you align those two things, you're really empowered your soul and your personality. And the idea of this or the pattern or any tool is to sort of reconnect you with that truth, that blueprint in your life because we go off and that's what it was for me. When I had the first reading, I was like, oh, oh my god, I could just stop turning. So all right, yeah, I know, I know everything you're telling you that's true. Why have I been spending you thirty years of my life? I'm trying to do this, and yes, that pattern is true. And then instead of it being about the other person, that was the most empowering. Anytime you're thinking your problem is about somebody else, so they're not giving you something, there's you're so off track. And this was so empowering because I was like, oh, it's me. I bring that person in every time. And then you just sort of free because you're like, I can work with this, you know I can. I can own that. And then you can get really objective about it. You sort of see the myth of your life. You see how you all come together, why you're coming together. You can see the greater story and not take it so literally every day like and I mean, that kind of stuff goes out the window, like oh, she talked to me this way or this, Well, what's her pattern? What's she going through. Okay, she has a wound where you know, you connect with each other this way, that's maybe gonna make her feel really judged, and now you can have compassion for that and you can adjust for that, and you can. So that's what that was. Just it's everything you said, and that was my sort of personal experience. It was this massive liberation. There's nobody to blame, there's nothing to like, and now I'm on this path where I can just keep sort of coming back to that and either it resonates or it doesn't. You read your pattern and there's some truth and you can take something away from it or not, and that's either way. It's fine. You know. It's not we're trying to give into anybody of anything. I'm not. It's just like an offering. Yeah, you know, like if it's helpful, use it, you know, and maybe it'll be helpful at a different time. It wouldn't have been helping me at twenty. I wasn't ready to hear anything. What does all this mean? I talk to people in their twenties that are so conscious and I'm like, oh, man to me a long time, Yeah, well, we we existed, and so that ushered in a new consciousness to the planet that is allowing for that. You know, I think, um, we're some more time time. Yes, you're always on time. So I love that you can get rid of sort of when you understand that too. In your transits and what you're going through, there's no more pomo. You realize there's no other place you're supposed to be or exactly where you're supposed to be. Get off to comparing get off thinking Okay, you're gonna be in a transit where it's gonna you're gonna feel like you can't go do that or go hang out with those people in the same way that's okay, just accept sort of like to accept. Yeah, and that's the word. That's what I really think. The pattern does so beautifully. Um and and this is what really working with your chart does. But the way that you have designed you're offering for the world, it's it's so beautiful because I'm noticing there's so many things that you tie into understanding a chart, like there is deep psychological process. There's also so much um connectedness to like the path of non judgment. And really something in meditation that we speak too often is like coming into the role of being the observer or being the witness of your thoughts. And I think the way that you have written and designed this app it allows people to come into that without even realizing you're coming into that. Like some of the language is so exquisite. And this app, especially as it relates to what you were just talking to, which is like you know, hey, I'm having tension with this person. It's their fault. And then you look at it and you're like, you might have tension with this person because they're bringing this forward in you, and that is no one is doing anything wrong. It's just to be aware of. And it's like, oh the freedom, well, the freedom I don't have to be mad at me. I don't have to be mad at you. This is just what is and like this is it's such a tool for self acceptance. Thank you. That's I mean, that's the goal. That was the goal, and I thank you for that because that was that's that piece. I didn't want anybody to feel judge. So it was a lot of like, it's not you, it's not that, it's just a patternentis can you get outside that? Because it's so much easier to just judge someone or judge yourself, you know, and stay suck in all this sort of pain and all this wounding. That's what you know, where ideally it can be that sort of luck deliberation exactly, the freedom of like, oh okay, I don't like to get stuck in that, you know, and give perspective. And that was part of the the most important part of the writing for me, was out of making sure like, okay, this sounds to judgment, but we had to read that because it sounds just a slightly as your mental or you know, how do we just open it up to the sort of space for you to let somebody have their experience, you have your experience, and let it let it be. Um so I think, I think, thank you, I'm so glad you know that that resonant. That was certainly the attention. Yeah, it's it feels like a powerful tool for awakening because that is the piece that I think keeps so many from the deepest level of themselves. There is always some against us or some belief that this inner seed of worthlessness is going to be validated by your life, right, you know, you bring that in, you validate it by creating your magnetic for those kinds of experiences, So you're going to bring in whatever is. That's why you can own the wound you can get into. I'm gonna change that level. I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm not gonna be magnetic with that anymore because I don't I don't believe that anymore. Whereas you're gonna every experience you're gonna have in life is just gonna bring in what you're feeling to that, and that's the empowerment piece hopefully, or the akening a piece of like get out of that cycle. Could be ten years blaming somebody for your whole life, blaming somebody you know, um, And it's right there for you if you kind of just like you said, if you would sort of work intentionally with this stuff like I chose this. I chose to feel deeply insure about myself because you know what the path is about self love, and I'm gonna have to learn that that's part of my path. How amazing, Okay, how amazing. Now I know my curriculum. Now I know my work, and so I don't have to keep running in this circle with myself. I can really get going and know that I am a creator. I am in the driver's seat of my life. I'm an active participant. Uh so good. The pattern, You guys have a user base of six million people right now. This has been driven completely organically through word of mouth, like no advertisement. That is actually seven and a half I think. Now, Oh my god. Okay, and you know, one of the things that the pattern really stands behind is it guides and empowers you to achieve a higher level of consciousness and acceptance for your authentic self. How how exactly does the app work and how is it possible to assimilate such unique and specific understanding for each person out of seven point five million people? Yeah, I mean, algorithms are complicated to explain clearly. It is a it's a very sort of robust algorithm, i'd say, and it is sort of more complex, I think than what is or what has been out there, because when I started looking for something after I had my experience, I couldn't find anything that sort of synthesize at all and went as deep as I wanted it to go, right. I wanted all the information. I wanted it to be just like my reading and give it, give it all to me as if I was an person with somebody and that was sort of the intention behind it was, Okay, how can we mimic I wanted to mimic experience. I had that a weekening I had, So I will say it took a very long time, and that when you're sort of extracting this information, trying to understand the system something that is an oral tradition and you're trying to put it into an al rhythm and and it was years and years of writing content. So there was quite a bit of stock piling content and testing and I go out and test a lot because you know, we get more and more detailed, because I was like, oh, we're still not hitting this though I know this piece is so important and it's not showing up. It's because we need to add this to it, right. So um, it was a lot of trial and there are a lot of testing. Um, and that was sort of the amazing part of the testing. This a little digression, but everybody I spoke to it didn't matter age, gender, raise, every single person wants to feel scene and understood, right. And so just seeing that was so motivating, you know, because maybe it's it started not that it was symbolo. The intention when it was always to make it that deep. But basically you wanted to hit I wanted to hit everybody's experience, right and I and it just the more I tested and margot into, the more it was compelled to write more and make it more robust and make it more us. You know, this one on for years and years and years. Um, and yeah, I mean I know I'm not giving the exact it's not like there's the but like, because it is a complicated thing to explain, I will see our moon sign. Astrology we do not take into account the sun and archetypally, so when you're reading your pattern, you're never reading about your son unless that sun sign is also you're vings or your Mars, your moon, your senate. It's it's really about the moment of your birth, you know. And so we're the moon is very big and the Venus Mars send in mid heaven complexes. Um that you might have meaning when I satured to Pluto. You're honest. These things are in relation to your personal planets, where they're within a tend degree or by square conjunction opposition. Um. You know. So we we have our own sort of way of looking at things, and that's what's great about Australa. There's all different kinds. People look at it in all different ways. This is the most sort of simplified you know version I found and um yeah, long linded way of explaining. So you know when someone if someone goes today and and goes and adds all the information, downloads the pattern, what is so important about the birth time? And how does that inform? I mean the way you know? And this is all great mystery, right, how does this all work? There's a lot of mystery to all of this. And I remember when I was creating it can be like looking for like well that's a whole digression. But anyway, Um, so the way it works, you put it, you put your information, and ideally you have a birth time. Not everybody does, but we can still tell you a lot of things about you even if you don't have the birth time. But we're really trying to dial it down to that moment in time. You are the creative expression of the universe in that single moment in time as above so below where were the planets and the sky at the time of your birth? You are that expression of that moment, and so we're trying to capture that. So you know, the moon was part of the sky and that's Aquarius. You know, we're going to talk to you about Aquarius and your version of Aquarius. We're gonna talk to you about and even more detailed version of Aquarius that you are. Where was the venus? Where was the ascendant? You know, and the moon changes every two and a half days, so it's much more specific than the sun the ascendant every two hours. That's where we get to the birth time. And um, oftentimes you're in a cusp of something, you're between two rising signs where that that moment is really important, like for us to know that exact moment um. But I don't want people who don't have a birth time. I think they can't use it. You most certainly can get a lot out of it. And from that, but yeah, and from there we say that this is sort of a blueprint, sort of the conscious way for your life, um, and that there's certain intentions. There's curriculum, as you say, the school you're in, you know, it's what you're learning about its lifetime and if you can sort of tune into that, it's I think it's just a more embodied life. You know, it's more enjoyable. I think again, like I said earlier, we're we're oftentimes comparing or living these quiet lives of desperation, trying to be something cultures as we should be. If you can get tuned in to actually what your path is about, it can be quite um liberating, you know, and that we're saying, Look, you're faded to deal with certain energies, you know, this aquarious moment. How you choose to deal with it is your choice, is your destiny, and that is free will, and that's the co creation that you're here, you know, creating this universe. And yeah, wow, my, when I read my chart, it it's so spot on, like so specifically spot on that I'm just like, oh wow, And I think, you know the pieces we speak to, the acceptance and how this is really such a beautiful tool for being an acceptance of yourself and just working with the what is um And whenever we fight the one is, guys, this is when um we really invited more suffering. And I'm a big believer that life comes with enough of it, so I don't add any extra sprinkles of suffering anywhere on myself, right, No, I really relate to that and I think that's there was a certain kind of there's my life before this time period and after. And I think you said it, well, you're suffering because you're portraying yourself all the time. And I was definitely a big self betrayer. It's like, you know, well I can do what you want. I can I can be whatever you mean to be. You know, so you you disconnect, you know, you get further and further away from your truth, your spirit. And the whole idea of this is to like come come back home a little bit, you know, like tune into that and like go of the idea of who you are. You know, You've had a really fascinating life. And I'm so curious because like when I look at my chart, it's the windy road and the time points that things happen, the season I'm in right now. I mean, my god, I'm just like, okay, so the Feds are in my house surveillancing me at every second, Like how is this so accurate? But you know, when I look at when I look at the greater story being told, as I read through some of the things that you've accomplished in some of the ways that you've taken up space in the world. It really fascinating. From being at the forefront of content and oh five to creating Maker Studios, generating like over five hundred million dollars in five years, selling to Disney, and then creating this, this epic masterpiece. That is the pattern. When you look at your chart, How has your chart informed this? You know what what does what does your chart say that can speak to all of this creation? Wow? Yeah? And you know you never do anything alone. So it's all so many wonderful people coming to my life. But a part of the journey. Yeah, I mean my chart, it's it's um that's what's so wonderful. When I had this reading, because I was like, that don't make sense, because it's almost like Carolyn Mace talked about this a lot that certain things animate in your life. Um like, let's say you could spend your maybe that I wanted to be a painter, and somehow it's just never animates, It never comes to life. But somehow this other thing you never wanted to do does. And I feel like, in a certain way, I've just let what's animating happen, if you will, Because I never thought I'd be involved in business, never in a million years. You know, it's just really oh my gosh, no so and I don't know, he keeps animate And I was like, okay, this is just the past. Just just accepted. Of course, I'm doing it in my own way that is not thinking, um, maybe the traditional way of business. It's sort of a non traditional way and um, but yeah, I've got Gemini, i got Virgo, I've got a lot of Neptune, and I've got a lot of satturny and saddurn was a big piece of the puzzle for me because that was a feeling of an adequacy and not being enough and needing to prove yourself. So I think there was a constant drive to prove myself to whether it's family or culture, whatever it is. But it sort of got me on a certain path. And um, that's what was started happening in my life when I found astrology, and um, it took me into the sort of self healing and self love during for many years. And that's what the pattern was, a sort of a catharsis of creating that, um and processing all that and processing that and I guess a creative way. A Gemini is very creative. It's some Leo, that's very creative. And um, I said, if I was a musician, I would have made an album or something. Instead I made the pattern. This is my creative expression. And I think, you know, Gemini is very independent and is not maybe as caught up. I don't know that. I was never caught up and maybe traditional benchmarks. So I think it allowed me to think really outside the box. It's not like, oh I better be married at that age or have they said that, like those things don't playing. I still think I'm twelve, I'm for you, and you know, it just doesn't occur to me that I'm aging. I'm like am I you know? So I I don't those things I think was from the Gemini, which is which is a gift. And and then the Saturn puts you to work because it says it doesn't like Gemini, and it's like you don't get to be for you better work, you better work hard. So I think, um, that combo yeah, and just I guess allowing it to unfold and and animate the way it has. Wow, I would love to see your chart. I'm a double Gemini Leo rising and so much just resonated with what yes, we have similar. We have similar short here and we're yeah, we're both Gemini movements, um and um. We have a past life chromic link. Oh to tell, well, we would know each other in the past. And the way we look at these things, you know, you can look at its literal or you can look at it's just a feeling. It's sort of Yeah. I always look at it as literal. But yeah, yeah, I do too. I get the whole story. I'm like, oh, we did this, yeah, but but yeah, it's you have Gemini. Uh, your moon is Gemini or the cancer version of Gemini, and as do I. We both have a cancer mercury um early arising, the arizing, and you have your venus is and taurists um and um. I think your mars is in cancer. So yeah, we can get into your child. Tell me about my venus. Yes, did you know that your venus was in tours. I didn't know that, but I haven't. It's funny. I haven't really explored that too much. Um, but it's been on my mind lately. Yeah. Yeah, well you're so. The way we look at the moon, we look at it is your lineage, is that it's where you've come from. And so you've lived sort of many lifetimes, is that moon, and you're a Gemini moon. So we said, you're sort of coming into this life with the certain perspective and the way that you look at things, and it's in the Gemini way. The Gemini is that is the you know, the the youth, the it's it's very cerebral, very bright, it's very fun. It never wants to grow up, you know. It's the child is the child at play. It really is um. It's here to bring spirit. It's in service to spirit, but in a way of being sort of irreverent, being independent, thinking, sort of outside the box, turning ideas on their heads, so never taking anything too literally. It's like in throwing in some other new ideas, and it's it sort of lives outside the law in the sense that it's like rules don't apply, you know. It's it's it's it's thinking a little bit broader. It's a free electron. It's a real true free spirit, we'd say. And you're the cancer version. There's twelve versions of it, so you're you Also there's sort of this nurturing quality with how you use your Gemini, and you use it with the people you love. And you bring spirit to them in that way. It's very fun and its usually has a great sense of humor, and but it's very interesting because they don't know anything about emotions and deep feelings, right, So you're coming in not knowing anything about it. But your chart, your journey is going to have a lot of that. So all of that would be new, right, so it's all brand new. You're a beginner, It's like, what are these feelings? Because Gemini is not interested in that. It's like, give me the information. I just want the information. I want to logically process it and sort of move on. It's air, you know. But you're on a journey that's gonna have a lot of depths in richness to it, so it's it would all be very new, you know. It's sort of like, oh gosh, I don't I don't know about these feelings. Um, your your venus isn't tourists, which is the opposite of Gemini. They're next to each other and this already, so anything that's next to each other is usually gonna have a bit of a bit of not understanding each other. It says if there were two people, they literally wouldn't like each other. Gemini's fast fast gass to ours is super slow. It's grounded. It's earth the it's you're do something. It's all air up in the sky and you're trying to ground it right. And tourists is essential. It's about pleasure and it's about relaxing, and it's about enjoying the present moment and being embodied. And Gemina doesn't have a body. It's all air, you know, it's just flying around. So how do these two blend? You know, that's like to the alchemy of your life. It's part of the journey of blending these two things because they're wonderful together. Because of course it's wonderful to have all these things you want to fire you with the water and air, and you're quite balanced. Some charts you have to understand, don't have any water. So they might not know how to merge with another and really understand their experience. Your mercury is a cancer, which is you know, a water sign. It's it's empathetic, it's kind, it's sensitive, it's merging with the other. It's able to be really present um and understand another person's emotional experience. Um, you know, and then you'rely arising, which is a fire in the action and your journey being about um having the courage to make your life up anyway that you desire to love yourself so authentically that it inspires others to love themselves. It's extremely creative. It's ablabing the the queen of your life, you know, the king of your life and and doing it your own way. And you do have. You have a lot of neptune. It's quite a visionary, it's quite um empathetic and merging with everybody. It can make knowing who you are challenging at times, because sometimes it feels like you don't even have a self. Um. And then that tourists, there is a Pluto complex to it. So Pluto is the underworld that their experiences in your life that have been overwhelming or rational, unexplainable and take you beyond what you know, out of your comfort zone, out of your control and forces surrender. Yeah, the enforces deep surrender and especially around security comfort being able to be that tourists, if there's Pluto to it, how to feel truly comfortable in your body, to feel truly comfortable in the world. What it shows me is that you have incredible depth that's the gift. We say, there's a gift. They've done nothing wrong. There's no reason you you're having these experiences except to teach you about the spectrum of emotions in your own depth, you know, and as I tried to do this quickly, possibly good. And then there's a whole relationship aspect, which I imagine is challenging growing up because you have there's a wound to the masculine which is in cancer. So that's a big piece of the charm. I am looking for the other to nurture you, to be the mother to you, to care for you, but there'd be really overwhelming experiences where that would seem like it was just sort of robbed from you a rational experiences. Again, it's a Pluto. Your mars was hidden behind the sun when you were born, so it's the under and so there'd be an experience of wanting the other to love and nurture you and not have not being able to experience that, and you having to be the want to learn to unconditionally love you. And then you can have any relationship you want because you're not magneting somebody who's not going to really give to you, and tourists is about receiving. So it's it's part of your journey to having learned to truly and receive all the love and nourishments that you deserve. Oh my god, that is so gorgeous, and I would love to for all listening right now, frame it and show you the pattern of the work using my chart. It's you know, as Leasa was expressing even the piece about like being born in a darker period for my child period, something I've shared on this show is like recognizing and really devoting the last several years of my life to just the deepest level of inner child work possible. And when I was When I spend time with my chart and I can kind of zoom out and see that pattern, it becomes less of Oh my god, when I was a kid, this is how I felt. This is what happened, and what's wrong with me and it and it's because I'm not deserving or not this And you're able to see, oh, this was my curriculum because I was meant to experience that end of the spectrum of human emotion and coming into the reversal of that by bringing it forward into light and love. And so you know, I think when I was first kind of seeing that in my chart, it gave me so much freedom because I'm like, oh, it all makes sense, and it all always was. It was always supposed to be exactly what was. And now that I've taken that as less of a personal judgment of self or an anger about the experience, it's like, oh, the surrender, and so what's the gift in it? What was I meant to become with that? Why was that my curriculum? And how can it inform the highest life possible for myself? Um? Wow, you s forge about the so well. I mean, it's just beautiful how you explain it? Because that is That's it, and that happened for you because you're supposed to learn to love yourself so powerfully, you know, And how do you get there without the steps? How do you get there in this really rich, inspiring way because you are the Leo Rising and you are I mean, you're so you're you're just you're you're beautiful. Okay, let's hold that thought right here. This has been part one of the Dropping Gems podcast featuring Lisa Donovan, the creator of the pattern. We are talking birth charts. We are talking astrology and we will be continuing this gorgeous expanse of conversation with a special little detail on who I ran a bond with recently that blew my mind coming up in part two of this episode. So if you are finding this episode and part two is already available, just roll right into the next listen and if not, part two will be available soon. Thank you for listening, big love and I must stay Hey. Find me on social Let's connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jack Please and me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

M from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the windows of restored alchimedo cheriots to keep the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer, be every form of Jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is. And the ancestors told me that you would come to give wisdom. Thousands. They said you would come Dropping Dropping Gym. Hey, welcome back. It's the Dropping Jim's podcast. I am Debbie Brown. Thank you so much for joining us again. This week. We are deep diving into astrology today, but specifically our birth charts and even more specifically the absolutely incredible app that seven point five million people are using to get more deeply connected with themselves. Today we are talking to the creator of the pattern. I'm really excited for today's conversation. UM. Something I've shared on this show, something I speak to quite a bit on my Instagram and uh, within my social circles in my life. UM, is the really beautiful gift that is astrology. I think so many of us were used to seeing astrology through one particular lens, through the Western astrology lens, for so long, which is the kind of back of the magazine, you know, the quick little tidbits of today. You'll have them luck, or you might get this, or you might get that. And the thing that is so beautiful about astrology is I really believe it to be such a powerful spiritual teacher and such a tool for awakening and enlightenment. I believe that astrology is a spiritual science. And the way that astrology works, especially in the in the sense of your birth chart, is it is so deeply connected to the location you were born, the time you were born, and the wind that you were born, and all of the ways that that can inform your life path and give you a clear lens within which to view yourself, view your life, and view the curriculum or the patterns that are at play with you. So on today's show, I'll be speaking with Lisa Donovan. Now, Lisa has had such a fascinating and expansive life. Before online face was a thing, and before YouTube was even the megap platform that it is now, there was a small group of digital pioneers, and Lisa Donovan was one of them. She was on the forefront of online content way back in two thousand and five, and she started one of the first and most successful YouTube content channels on the site, which then led to many jobs in mainstream Hollywood. But she decided to go a completely different route. So utilizing so much of that beautiful online experience that she had, Lisa co founded and served as a board member for Maker Studios Next, which was the next generation talent focused technology and media company. She did huge things with that. It sold to Disney, and then she really anchored into a deeper service, a deeper path creating the pattern. So confronted with a really harsh reality that the foundation of much of what she thought she knew was slipping away. Making so many of those pivots and really big transitions, Lisa began a long journey of self discovery that became the impetus for her endeavor. The pattern born from both personal experience. During this challenging time, Lisa focused all of her efforts on creating something that could help others feel seen, understood, and supported, especially in times of perceived struggle or deep challenge, and while living in her childhood bedroom, she passionately wrote every single passage in the app, which was a labor of love that Lisa had spent over six years developing before this type of information was easily accessible to all. This app is rooted in astrology, and it guides and empowers you to achieve a higher level of consciousness and acceptance of your authentic self. The pattern unlocks the keys to your personality traits by providing a breakdown of the ways in which you operate in the world and relate to others. So go ahead and get comfortable. We're doing this in two parts. Download the app so you can play along with it as we're going through it and get ready to maybe meet yourself more deeply or get a mini master class and how to understand how this could potentially be a really useful tool to you on your journey. And I gotta I gotta give you guys a little behind the curtain of this episode. We ran into almost a twenty minute stand still trying to have this conversation, and Lisa was so gracious and so amazing about sticking with us through our technical difficulty. So I am I'm so excited to finally be sharing UM and able to start impacking this conversation. Lisa. Thank you so much, Lisa Donovan, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful to be here. And I feel like we just went through something together. I know, we just bound difficulties, really bonded for life, for life, We bonded in such a deep way and just I mean, I gotta say your level of graciousness and grace through that was so beautiful, UM, And so I am really grateful. Wow, we worked well together. I have been so looking forward to this conversation and I'm like, I don't even know where to start. I live by my chart, and something that I've talked about on this show is, you know, I really, I really experience astrology as a spiritual science, as one of the most profound tools you could invite into your life. And the way that I experienced it it. It really feels like and I don't believe in these terms like life hacks or cheat code, but that's exactly what it feels like. UM. And it's just the way you have designed this. It's it's so profound, like it's so beautiful and the way that you interpret the chart. I'm a big believer that people UM can only use their gifts as deeply as their healing has come through and so work like this, but it's really divine translations. And the way that you translate this divine work is so so not just beautiful, but it become such a profoundly useful tool. UM. You may feel I don't even know what to say. I feel like I'm just gonna walk offs. It's enough, you know, I thank you so much, God, and I and there and there's so many things that we're going to get into about your life. Your life is absolutely fascinating, your path, But first let's start here. How did you first connect to astrology? I just gotta chill everything you're saying, because I agree with you everything you say about astrology. And I was not somebody who grew up maybe in a spiritual home or where UM astrology would have been sort of on the agenda at all. Everything was logic and we can rationalize that and we can think about that. Um. So it came to me a little bit later, you know, it came to me when my life, Um, you know, I was needing some challenges. My life kind of took sort of drastic turns and everything turned upside down. Everything I understood about it, my my ego, my personality, how I thought things were going to be, the people I thought i'd be with, the business I was running, the life I was going to live. Um, it was just gone very quickly, and I was gonna have to kind of start from scratch. And you know that's when these things come to you, right. I just it was just random. Someone was talking about it and I said, oh, I'd like to try that, which I don't think I ever would have in the past. You know, maybe I wouldn't have needed that. I would have been open to it when have hurt it. So it came at the right time, and I probably had preconceived notions about it. Again, it was sort of trapped in the mind about everything and I had this reading and it was a complete sort of psychological breakdown, an emotional breakdown of who I was, all the things I've felt my whole life, certain insecurities, certain fears. It was so specific to and what I was going throughout that time. It was sort of a revelation, what is this? You know? It almost felt like magic or that it's not magic, it's spirit, right, It's being open to the world that I was not connected to. Not that it wasn't knocking out my door all the time, or that now that I look back, it was there always, but but um, this was my entry into it and changing my life completely. This is eight years ago and being more on you know, I hate these terms to the path that were, but being on it and like, wow, okay, well this is a different way to live and be a bit more you know, aware, And it allowed me to go very deeply into what I was going through and to process and understand sort of my pain and my joys and my strengths and my fears and my wounds, and um, it just blew me away. And that was sort of you know, had experienced that's tool at this very challenging time is what gave birth to the pattern. I was like, everyone needs to all about this to people people, because I had the oh, it's cheesy, and how can everybody born in the month of June be the same person and having the same thing, which, of course it's not. It's much more specific when you get into it, and it's really um you know, you're mooning your venus and all these specific things, and it's really dialed into you. And I was like, I gotta figure out a way to like get this to everybody and get rid of what kept me away from it for so many years and bring it down to like two Earth where it can be sort of translated. I say, I want to translate it and make it accessible. And then you know this is going seven eight years ago and then years and years and years what that journey would be, which I thought it'd easy. I was like, I'll just do this. It's like I'm gonna take a long time, and here we are. You know what I would love to to unravel for the audience is like I think when people are starting to hear about using your chart, they're they're thinking of it in the structure of the back of the magazine or like those little scrolls at the front of the grocery aisle where it's like of western astrology, which is really based on your son and it's all about you know, and today girl put on a little extra lipstick or and this is you know, it's like and I was always drawn to astrology, but when I used to read those, I'm like, what does this mean? Like how do I actually apply this to be useful and not just feel like a like a game or like you know, just a little like fun um. But your birth chart, like your chart chart when you're going through your house is and you got your moon and your sun and your rising and your venus. And the way that I experience is it helps you understand the greater story at play about your life. You know, you're able to really zoom out and look at life as a vertical And for me it really represented as I was able to see the the patterns no pun intended, Yeah, but you're able to see the patterns at play so that you can work with them as tools. And I think so many of us we get caught in this psycho. Why does this keep happening to me? Oh I had this happened to me, Then that person did it too. When I was a kid, this happened, It still happens. We look at it as as the system of personalization of all that we're doing wrong or what what is so wrong about us that we're drawing this to us. And that's what I think is so beautiful about the pattern and so beautiful about living with your chart, is that it it really lets you know this is not an against no for you, This is not a judgment for you, this is not a punishment, this is this is what we signed up for. And being able to zoom out, it's like, oh, of course, this is how my life is unfolding. Okay, now that I see that, let me get on the path with intention. Let me get on the path with a co creation, a way of being with it, so that I'm designing my life, in a word, in swift, Because when you design your life in accordance with your chart, it's like you unlock this insanely beautiful flow. I mean, you just spoke about it so beautifully. I can't even imagine adding to this, I really, but you said it is so powerful and how I feel it's really aligned with and that's what it was for me or what it is for me, And I felt like it could be a tool for empowering you. I think the way we think of astrology is sort of predictive. This is what you were saying, is, you know, don't go to the store today, do this, do that, very you know, it's really just to sell newspapers and to sort of you know, here's your sun sign, here's you know you need to know this week. There's something much deeper. This wisdom is ancient, it's you know, it's this universe we're living in. I think the idea of it is to be a tool for empowerment, not dissempowering you. And I think what you said is exactly it by getting very objective, because I think we spend our lives very narrow. All we know is what's year and what's around us. And we started comparing ourselves. Why don't I know this? Why am I not more like this? And we don't sort of own our path and our truth. And I think that's it. That's sort of you know, disconnect from sort of the soul tight and the personality. Right that Gary's you cough. You know, when you align those two things, you're really empowered your soul and your personality. And the idea of this or the pattern or any tool is to sort of reconnect you with that truth, that blueprint in your life because we go off and that's what it was for me. When I had the first reading, I was like, oh, oh my god, I could just stop turning. So all right, yeah, I know, I know everything you're telling you that's true. Why have I been spending you thirty years of my life? I'm trying to do this, and yes, that pattern is true. And then instead of it being about the other person, that was the most empowering. Anytime you're thinking your problem is about somebody else, so they're not giving you something, there's you're so off track. And this was so empowering because I was like, oh, it's me. I bring that person in every time. And then you just sort of free because you're like, I can work with this, you know I can. I can own that. And then you can get really objective about it. You sort of see the myth of your life. You see how you all come together, why you're coming together. You can see the greater story and not take it so literally every day like and I mean, that kind of stuff goes out the window, like oh, she talked to me this way or this, Well, what's her pattern? What's she going through. Okay, she has a wound where you know, you connect with each other this way, that's maybe gonna make her feel really judged, and now you can have compassion for that and you can adjust for that, and you can. So that's what that was. Just it's everything you said, and that was my sort of personal experience. It was this massive liberation. There's nobody to blame, there's nothing to like, and now I'm on this path where I can just keep sort of coming back to that and either it resonates or it doesn't. You read your pattern and there's some truth and you can take something away from it or not, and that's either way. It's fine. You know. It's not we're trying to give into anybody of anything. I'm not. It's just like an offering. Yeah, you know, like if it's helpful, use it, you know, and maybe it'll be helpful at a different time. It wouldn't have been helping me at twenty. I wasn't ready to hear anything. What does all this mean? I talk to people in their twenties that are so conscious and I'm like, oh, man to me a long time, Yeah, well, we we existed, and so that ushered in a new consciousness to the planet that is allowing for that. You know, I think, um, we're some more time time. Yes, you're always on time. So I love that you can get rid of sort of when you understand that too. In your transits and what you're going through, there's no more pomo. You realize there's no other place you're supposed to be or exactly where you're supposed to be. Get off to comparing get off thinking Okay, you're gonna be in a transit where it's gonna you're gonna feel like you can't go do that or go hang out with those people in the same way that's okay, just accept sort of like to accept. Yeah, and that's the word. That's what I really think. The pattern does so beautifully. Um and and this is what really working with your chart does. But the way that you have designed you're offering for the world, it's it's so beautiful because I'm noticing there's so many things that you tie into understanding a chart, like there is deep psychological process. There's also so much um connectedness to like the path of non judgment. And really something in meditation that we speak too often is like coming into the role of being the observer or being the witness of your thoughts. And I think the way that you have written and designed this app it allows people to come into that without even realizing you're coming into that. Like some of the language is so exquisite. And this app, especially as it relates to what you were just talking to, which is like you know, hey, I'm having tension with this person. It's their fault. And then you look at it and you're like, you might have tension with this person because they're bringing this forward in you, and that is no one is doing anything wrong. It's just to be aware of. And it's like, oh the freedom, well, the freedom I don't have to be mad at me. I don't have to be mad at you. This is just what is and like this is it's such a tool for self acceptance. Thank you. That's I mean, that's the goal. That was the goal, and I thank you for that because that was that's that piece. I didn't want anybody to feel judge. So it was a lot of like, it's not you, it's not that, it's just a patternentis can you get outside that? Because it's so much easier to just judge someone or judge yourself, you know, and stay suck in all this sort of pain and all this wounding. That's what you know, where ideally it can be that sort of luck deliberation exactly, the freedom of like, oh okay, I don't like to get stuck in that, you know, and give perspective. And that was part of the the most important part of the writing for me, was out of making sure like, okay, this sounds to judgment, but we had to read that because it sounds just a slightly as your mental or you know, how do we just open it up to the sort of space for you to let somebody have their experience, you have your experience, and let it let it be. Um so I think, I think, thank you, I'm so glad you know that that resonant. That was certainly the attention. Yeah, it's it feels like a powerful tool for awakening because that is the piece that I think keeps so many from the deepest level of themselves. There is always some against us or some belief that this inner seed of worthlessness is going to be validated by your life, right, you know, you bring that in, you validate it by creating your magnetic for those kinds of experiences, So you're going to bring in whatever is. That's why you can own the wound you can get into. I'm gonna change that level. I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm not gonna be magnetic with that anymore because I don't I don't believe that anymore. Whereas you're gonna every experience you're gonna have in life is just gonna bring in what you're feeling to that, and that's the empowerment piece hopefully, or the akening a piece of like get out of that cycle. Could be ten years blaming somebody for your whole life, blaming somebody you know, um, And it's right there for you if you kind of just like you said, if you would sort of work intentionally with this stuff like I chose this. I chose to feel deeply insure about myself because you know what the path is about self love, and I'm gonna have to learn that that's part of my path. How amazing, Okay, how amazing. Now I know my curriculum. Now I know my work, and so I don't have to keep running in this circle with myself. I can really get going and know that I am a creator. I am in the driver's seat of my life. I'm an active participant. Uh so good. The pattern, You guys have a user base of six million people right now. This has been driven completely organically through word of mouth, like no advertisement. That is actually seven and a half I think. Now, Oh my god. Okay, and you know, one of the things that the pattern really stands behind is it guides and empowers you to achieve a higher level of consciousness and acceptance for your authentic self. How how exactly does the app work and how is it possible to assimilate such unique and specific understanding for each person out of seven point five million people? Yeah, I mean, algorithms are complicated to explain clearly. It is a it's a very sort of robust algorithm, i'd say, and it is sort of more complex, I think than what is or what has been out there, because when I started looking for something after I had my experience, I couldn't find anything that sort of synthesize at all and went as deep as I wanted it to go, right. I wanted all the information. I wanted it to be just like my reading and give it, give it all to me as if I was an person with somebody and that was sort of the intention behind it was, Okay, how can we mimic I wanted to mimic experience. I had that a weekening I had, So I will say it took a very long time, and that when you're sort of extracting this information, trying to understand the system something that is an oral tradition and you're trying to put it into an al rhythm and and it was years and years of writing content. So there was quite a bit of stock piling content and testing and I go out and test a lot because you know, we get more and more detailed, because I was like, oh, we're still not hitting this though I know this piece is so important and it's not showing up. It's because we need to add this to it, right. So um, it was a lot of trial and there are a lot of testing. Um, and that was sort of the amazing part of the testing. This a little digression, but everybody I spoke to it didn't matter age, gender, raise, every single person wants to feel scene and understood, right. And so just seeing that was so motivating, you know, because maybe it's it started not that it was symbolo. The intention when it was always to make it that deep. But basically you wanted to hit I wanted to hit everybody's experience, right and I and it just the more I tested and margot into, the more it was compelled to write more and make it more robust and make it more us. You know, this one on for years and years and years. Um, and yeah, I mean I know I'm not giving the exact it's not like there's the but like, because it is a complicated thing to explain, I will see our moon sign. Astrology we do not take into account the sun and archetypally, so when you're reading your pattern, you're never reading about your son unless that sun sign is also you're vings or your Mars, your moon, your senate. It's it's really about the moment of your birth, you know. And so we're the moon is very big and the Venus Mars send in mid heaven complexes. Um that you might have meaning when I satured to Pluto. You're honest. These things are in relation to your personal planets, where they're within a tend degree or by square conjunction opposition. Um. You know. So we we have our own sort of way of looking at things, and that's what's great about Australa. There's all different kinds. People look at it in all different ways. This is the most sort of simplified you know version I found and um yeah, long linded way of explaining. So you know when someone if someone goes today and and goes and adds all the information, downloads the pattern, what is so important about the birth time? And how does that inform? I mean the way you know? And this is all great mystery, right, how does this all work? There's a lot of mystery to all of this. And I remember when I was creating it can be like looking for like well that's a whole digression. But anyway, Um, so the way it works, you put it, you put your information, and ideally you have a birth time. Not everybody does, but we can still tell you a lot of things about you even if you don't have the birth time. But we're really trying to dial it down to that moment in time. You are the creative expression of the universe in that single moment in time as above so below where were the planets and the sky at the time of your birth? You are that expression of that moment, and so we're trying to capture that. So you know, the moon was part of the sky and that's Aquarius. You know, we're going to talk to you about Aquarius and your version of Aquarius. We're gonna talk to you about and even more detailed version of Aquarius that you are. Where was the venus? Where was the ascendant? You know, and the moon changes every two and a half days, so it's much more specific than the sun the ascendant every two hours. That's where we get to the birth time. And um, oftentimes you're in a cusp of something, you're between two rising signs where that that moment is really important, like for us to know that exact moment um. But I don't want people who don't have a birth time. I think they can't use it. You most certainly can get a lot out of it. And from that, but yeah, and from there we say that this is sort of a blueprint, sort of the conscious way for your life, um, and that there's certain intentions. There's curriculum, as you say, the school you're in, you know, it's what you're learning about its lifetime and if you can sort of tune into that, it's I think it's just a more embodied life. You know, it's more enjoyable. I think again, like I said earlier, we're we're oftentimes comparing or living these quiet lives of desperation, trying to be something cultures as we should be. If you can get tuned in to actually what your path is about, it can be quite um liberating, you know, and that we're saying, Look, you're faded to deal with certain energies, you know, this aquarious moment. How you choose to deal with it is your choice, is your destiny, and that is free will, and that's the co creation that you're here, you know, creating this universe. And yeah, wow, my, when I read my chart, it it's so spot on, like so specifically spot on that I'm just like, oh wow, And I think, you know the pieces we speak to, the acceptance and how this is really such a beautiful tool for being an acceptance of yourself and just working with the what is um And whenever we fight the one is, guys, this is when um we really invited more suffering. And I'm a big believer that life comes with enough of it, so I don't add any extra sprinkles of suffering anywhere on myself, right, No, I really relate to that and I think that's there was a certain kind of there's my life before this time period and after. And I think you said it, well, you're suffering because you're portraying yourself all the time. And I was definitely a big self betrayer. It's like, you know, well I can do what you want. I can I can be whatever you mean to be. You know, so you you disconnect, you know, you get further and further away from your truth, your spirit. And the whole idea of this is to like come come back home a little bit, you know, like tune into that and like go of the idea of who you are. You know, You've had a really fascinating life. And I'm so curious because like when I look at my chart, it's the windy road and the time points that things happen, the season I'm in right now. I mean, my god, I'm just like, okay, so the Feds are in my house surveillancing me at every second, Like how is this so accurate? But you know, when I look at when I look at the greater story being told, as I read through some of the things that you've accomplished in some of the ways that you've taken up space in the world. It really fascinating. From being at the forefront of content and oh five to creating Maker Studios, generating like over five hundred million dollars in five years, selling to Disney, and then creating this, this epic masterpiece. That is the pattern. When you look at your chart, How has your chart informed this? You know what what does what does your chart say that can speak to all of this creation? Wow? Yeah? And you know you never do anything alone. So it's all so many wonderful people coming to my life. But a part of the journey. Yeah, I mean my chart, it's it's um that's what's so wonderful. When I had this reading, because I was like, that don't make sense, because it's almost like Carolyn Mace talked about this a lot that certain things animate in your life. Um like, let's say you could spend your maybe that I wanted to be a painter, and somehow it's just never animates, It never comes to life. But somehow this other thing you never wanted to do does. And I feel like, in a certain way, I've just let what's animating happen, if you will, Because I never thought I'd be involved in business, never in a million years. You know, it's just really oh my gosh, no so and I don't know, he keeps animate And I was like, okay, this is just the past. Just just accepted. Of course, I'm doing it in my own way that is not thinking, um, maybe the traditional way of business. It's sort of a non traditional way and um, but yeah, I've got Gemini, i got Virgo, I've got a lot of Neptune, and I've got a lot of satturny and saddurn was a big piece of the puzzle for me because that was a feeling of an adequacy and not being enough and needing to prove yourself. So I think there was a constant drive to prove myself to whether it's family or culture, whatever it is. But it sort of got me on a certain path. And um, that's what was started happening in my life when I found astrology, and um, it took me into the sort of self healing and self love during for many years. And that's what the pattern was, a sort of a catharsis of creating that, um and processing all that and processing that and I guess a creative way. A Gemini is very creative. It's some Leo, that's very creative. And um, I said, if I was a musician, I would have made an album or something. Instead I made the pattern. This is my creative expression. And I think, you know, Gemini is very independent and is not maybe as caught up. I don't know that. I was never caught up and maybe traditional benchmarks. So I think it allowed me to think really outside the box. It's not like, oh I better be married at that age or have they said that, like those things don't playing. I still think I'm twelve, I'm for you, and you know, it just doesn't occur to me that I'm aging. I'm like am I you know? So I I don't those things I think was from the Gemini, which is which is a gift. And and then the Saturn puts you to work because it says it doesn't like Gemini, and it's like you don't get to be for you better work, you better work hard. So I think, um, that combo yeah, and just I guess allowing it to unfold and and animate the way it has. Wow, I would love to see your chart. I'm a double Gemini Leo rising and so much just resonated with what yes, we have similar. We have similar short here and we're yeah, we're both Gemini movements, um and um. We have a past life chromic link. Oh to tell, well, we would know each other in the past. And the way we look at these things, you know, you can look at its literal or you can look at it's just a feeling. It's sort of Yeah. I always look at it as literal. But yeah, yeah, I do too. I get the whole story. I'm like, oh, we did this, yeah, but but yeah, it's you have Gemini. Uh, your moon is Gemini or the cancer version of Gemini, and as do I. We both have a cancer mercury um early arising, the arizing, and you have your venus is and taurists um and um. I think your mars is in cancer. So yeah, we can get into your child. Tell me about my venus. Yes, did you know that your venus was in tours. I didn't know that, but I haven't. It's funny. I haven't really explored that too much. Um, but it's been on my mind lately. Yeah. Yeah, well you're so. The way we look at the moon, we look at it is your lineage, is that it's where you've come from. And so you've lived sort of many lifetimes, is that moon, and you're a Gemini moon. So we said, you're sort of coming into this life with the certain perspective and the way that you look at things, and it's in the Gemini way. The Gemini is that is the you know, the the youth, the it's it's very cerebral, very bright, it's very fun. It never wants to grow up, you know. It's the child is the child at play. It really is um. It's here to bring spirit. It's in service to spirit, but in a way of being sort of irreverent, being independent, thinking, sort of outside the box, turning ideas on their heads, so never taking anything too literally. It's like in throwing in some other new ideas, and it's it sort of lives outside the law in the sense that it's like rules don't apply, you know. It's it's it's it's thinking a little bit broader. It's a free electron. It's a real true free spirit, we'd say. And you're the cancer version. There's twelve versions of it, so you're you Also there's sort of this nurturing quality with how you use your Gemini, and you use it with the people you love. And you bring spirit to them in that way. It's very fun and its usually has a great sense of humor, and but it's very interesting because they don't know anything about emotions and deep feelings, right, So you're coming in not knowing anything about it. But your chart, your journey is going to have a lot of that. So all of that would be new, right, so it's all brand new. You're a beginner, It's like, what are these feelings? Because Gemini is not interested in that. It's like, give me the information. I just want the information. I want to logically process it and sort of move on. It's air, you know. But you're on a journey that's gonna have a lot of depths in richness to it, so it's it would all be very new, you know. It's sort of like, oh gosh, I don't I don't know about these feelings. Um, your your venus isn't tourists, which is the opposite of Gemini. They're next to each other and this already, so anything that's next to each other is usually gonna have a bit of a bit of not understanding each other. It says if there were two people, they literally wouldn't like each other. Gemini's fast fast gass to ours is super slow. It's grounded. It's earth the it's you're do something. It's all air up in the sky and you're trying to ground it right. And tourists is essential. It's about pleasure and it's about relaxing, and it's about enjoying the present moment and being embodied. And Gemina doesn't have a body. It's all air, you know, it's just flying around. So how do these two blend? You know, that's like to the alchemy of your life. It's part of the journey of blending these two things because they're wonderful together. Because of course it's wonderful to have all these things you want to fire you with the water and air, and you're quite balanced. Some charts you have to understand, don't have any water. So they might not know how to merge with another and really understand their experience. Your mercury is a cancer, which is you know, a water sign. It's it's empathetic, it's kind, it's sensitive, it's merging with the other. It's able to be really present um and understand another person's emotional experience. Um, you know, and then you'rely arising, which is a fire in the action and your journey being about um having the courage to make your life up anyway that you desire to love yourself so authentically that it inspires others to love themselves. It's extremely creative. It's ablabing the the queen of your life, you know, the king of your life and and doing it your own way. And you do have. You have a lot of neptune. It's quite a visionary, it's quite um empathetic and merging with everybody. It can make knowing who you are challenging at times, because sometimes it feels like you don't even have a self. Um. And then that tourists, there is a Pluto complex to it. So Pluto is the underworld that their experiences in your life that have been overwhelming or rational, unexplainable and take you beyond what you know, out of your comfort zone, out of your control and forces surrender. Yeah, the enforces deep surrender and especially around security comfort being able to be that tourists, if there's Pluto to it, how to feel truly comfortable in your body, to feel truly comfortable in the world. What it shows me is that you have incredible depth that's the gift. We say, there's a gift. They've done nothing wrong. There's no reason you you're having these experiences except to teach you about the spectrum of emotions in your own depth, you know, and as I tried to do this quickly, possibly good. And then there's a whole relationship aspect, which I imagine is challenging growing up because you have there's a wound to the masculine which is in cancer. So that's a big piece of the charm. I am looking for the other to nurture you, to be the mother to you, to care for you, but there'd be really overwhelming experiences where that would seem like it was just sort of robbed from you a rational experiences. Again, it's a Pluto. Your mars was hidden behind the sun when you were born, so it's the under and so there'd be an experience of wanting the other to love and nurture you and not have not being able to experience that, and you having to be the want to learn to unconditionally love you. And then you can have any relationship you want because you're not magneting somebody who's not going to really give to you, and tourists is about receiving. So it's it's part of your journey to having learned to truly and receive all the love and nourishments that you deserve. Oh my god, that is so gorgeous, and I would love to for all listening right now, frame it and show you the pattern of the work using my chart. It's you know, as Leasa was expressing even the piece about like being born in a darker period for my child period, something I've shared on this show is like recognizing and really devoting the last several years of my life to just the deepest level of inner child work possible. And when I was When I spend time with my chart and I can kind of zoom out and see that pattern, it becomes less of Oh my god, when I was a kid, this is how I felt. This is what happened, and what's wrong with me and it and it's because I'm not deserving or not this And you're able to see, oh, this was my curriculum because I was meant to experience that end of the spectrum of human emotion and coming into the reversal of that by bringing it forward into light and love. And so you know, I think when I was first kind of seeing that in my chart, it gave me so much freedom because I'm like, oh, it all makes sense, and it all always was. It was always supposed to be exactly what was. And now that I've taken that as less of a personal judgment of self or an anger about the experience, it's like, oh, the surrender, and so what's the gift in it? What was I meant to become with that? Why was that my curriculum? And how can it inform the highest life possible for myself? Um? Wow, you s forge about the so well. I mean, it's just beautiful how you explain it? Because that is That's it, and that happened for you because you're supposed to learn to love yourself so powerfully, you know, And how do you get there without the steps? How do you get there in this really rich, inspiring way because you are the Leo Rising and you are I mean, you're so you're you're just you're you're beautiful. Okay, let's hold that thought right here. This has been part one of the Dropping Gems podcast featuring Lisa Donovan, the creator of the pattern. We are talking birth charts. We are talking astrology and we will be continuing this gorgeous expanse of conversation with a special little detail on who I ran a bond with recently that blew my mind coming up in part two of this episode. So if you are finding this episode and part two is already available, just roll right into the next listen and if not, part two will be available soon. Thank you for listening, big love and I must stay Hey. Find me on social Let's connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jack Please and me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.