Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you. Oh well, I'm in Sunny Whistler.

Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you. Oh well, I'm in Sunny Whistler.

It's very sunny, sunny, sunny, sunny up here, a little too sunny. The snow is melting and it's sticky, sticky snow. And I'm officially a daycare runner opener starter. There are children everywhere I go. They are at my house, they live with me, not just my two buddhas, but more children have appeared, and the dogs are attracting more and more people. So my life is just turned into Yesterday, one of my little friends came by to ask for money because she was going to get ice cream and realized she didn't have any, so she said, we know Chelsea has money.

It's very sunny, sunny, sunny, sunny up here, a little too sunny. The snow is melting and it's sticky, sticky snow. And I'm officially a daycare runner opener starter. There are children everywhere I go. They are at my house, they live with me, not just my two buddhas, but more children have appeared, and the dogs are attracting more and more people. So my life is just turned into Yesterday, one of my little friends came by to ask for money because she was going to get ice cream and realized she didn't have any, so she said, we know Chelsea has money.

That's what she said.

That's what she said.

And I said, okay, how much do you need and she said a dollar and all I had was a twenty.

And I said, okay, how much do you need and she said a dollar and all I had was a twenty.

So I mean, hey, what does ice cream cost these days?

So I mean, hey, what does ice cream cost these days?

I know?

I know?

And she's like, do you need the change? And I was like, it's really up to you, I guess. And Doug is with his new dog walker today. We got evicted from his last class because he was getting too confident, and apparently Doug is going through adeless and some puberty as an eleventh month old chow.

And she's like, do you need the change? And I was like, it's really up to you, I guess. And Doug is with his new dog walker today. We got evicted from his last class because he was getting too confident, and apparently Doug is going through adeless and some puberty as an eleventh month old chow.

So he is a fucking nightmare.

So he is a fucking nightmare.

Is there a little marking happening?

Is there a little marking happening?

No, not marking, but he just well, I've had my rugs cleaned steam cleaned here twice, which smells worse than actual diarrhea. So I don't know what the point of that is. And then I take he knows his command. Yesterday I went for a walk to the golf course, which because it was covered in snow. I can only see a golf course if it's covered in snow. Otherwise it just annoys me so much. And we were so good with our commands. Come Come, Come, dog Come, and then all of a sudden, he just fucking forgot, and so I'm just screaming come, and no one's coming. It's so pathetic. And I have my treats and everything. So anyway, I have a new dog walker this week. Hopefully she can whip him into shape. She's got him Tuesday through Friday, I was like, get his ass on track, because I have a whole waiting list of people who want Doug.

No, not marking, but he just well, I've had my rugs cleaned steam cleaned here twice, which smells worse than actual diarrhea. So I don't know what the point of that is. And then I take he knows his command. Yesterday I went for a walk to the golf course, which because it was covered in snow. I can only see a golf course if it's covered in snow. Otherwise it just annoys me so much. And we were so good with our commands. Come Come, Come, dog Come, and then all of a sudden, he just fucking forgot, and so I'm just screaming come, and no one's coming. It's so pathetic. And I have my treats and everything. So anyway, I have a new dog walker this week. Hopefully she can whip him into shape. She's got him Tuesday through Friday, I was like, get his ass on track, because I have a whole waiting list of people who want Doug.

I was gone for seven days before last week on.

I was gone for seven days before last week on.

The road and do it touring, and then I went to the Oscar parties and then I don't know what else I did.

The road and do it touring, and then I went to the Oscar parties and then I don't know what else I did.

Oh, I went to Deer Valley to ski with my friends.

Oh, I went to Deer Valley to ski with my friends.

There, and I came back and and my friends they had passed Doug around like a party treat. And when he went from one house to another house like a little dime store.

There, and I came back and and my friends they had passed Doug around like a party treat. And when he went from one house to another house like a little dime store.

Whose that's a flusy.

Whose that's a flusy.

He is a fluosy, And so it was a Bernice. Quite frankly, the kids either want Doug or Bernice. Yeah, and now I call them Dirk and Dennis. Those are their cameo names or OnlyFans names.

He is a fluosy, And so it was a Bernice. Quite frankly, the kids either want Doug or Bernice. Yeah, and now I call them Dirk and Dennis. Those are their cameo names or OnlyFans names.

I guess, well, you're a true mother, just like calling them all by the wrong names. That's yeah, that's how Yeah.

I guess, well, you're a true mother, just like calling them all by the wrong names. That's yeah, that's how Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So this has been a stressful winter.

Yeah, yeah. So this has been a stressful winter.

I'm not gonna lie between my fucking house and the bullshit that's going on.

I'm not gonna lie between my fucking house and the bullshit that's going on.

It is a disaster.

It is a disaster.

And I just am waiting in Whistler until it calms down so I can go home because I have been so violated and I feel like I have been robbed.

And I just am waiting in Whistler until it calms down so I can go home because I have been so violated and I feel like I have been robbed.

Yeah, it's past the point of like, oh yeah, just a little longer. I mean, when we're going on three years, there's something else.

Yeah, it's past the point of like, oh yeah, just a little longer. I mean, when we're going on three years, there's something else.

It's three years. I've owned this house for three years, and it's still not ready.

It's three years. I've owned this house for three years, and it's still not ready.

Yep. Well, I'm glad you have somewhere else to be that is beautiful and fun. And I'm glad you got to take a break from skiing to go skiing somewhere else.

Yep. Well, I'm glad you have somewhere else to be that is beautiful and fun. And I'm glad you got to take a break from skiing to go skiing somewhere else.

Also, I know that was really fun. I love Dear Valley, I love skiing there, and I just love skiing. I mean, thank god I have skiing in my life. It is just such a gift. It is such a gift to find out what you're passionate about and get it, get after it because it gives me so much joy.

Also, I know that was really fun. I love Dear Valley, I love skiing there, and I just love skiing. I mean, thank god I have skiing in my life. It is just such a gift. It is such a gift to find out what you're passionate about and get it, get after it because it gives me so much joy.

I love that it is. That is kind of half the battle, is finding what you're passionate about, like finding what you really really dig you know.

I love that it is. That is kind of half the battle, is finding what you're passionate about, like finding what you really really dig you know.

Yeah, Like if I can just smoke weed. Oh I can't smoke it all the time because in my throat. But if I could just eat cannabis, mushrooms, whatever drugs come my way, read books, and ski for like three months straight, I mean, I honestly would be the happiest person on the planet.

Yeah, Like if I can just smoke weed. Oh I can't smoke it all the time because in my throat. But if I could just eat cannabis, mushrooms, whatever drugs come my way, read books, and ski for like three months straight, I mean, I honestly would be the happiest person on the planet.

Maybe, especially if there were no children involved.

Maybe, especially if there were no children involved.

Well, the children are a nice addition because they're not mine.

Well, the children are a nice addition because they're not mine.

But it's gotten a little good carried away, Like I found myself at the kiddie table the other night.

But it's gotten a little good carried away, Like I found myself at the kiddie table the other night.

I'm like, what's happening here? I had a thirteen picture?

I'm like, what's happening here? I had a thirteen picture?

You posed it?

You posed it?

I know, and everywhere I go they come with me, and I treat them like little adults. So I think they really like that because I can't explain I'm not being nice to them.

I know, and everywhere I go they come with me, and I treat them like little adults. So I think they really like that because I can't explain I'm not being nice to them.

Yeah, what do they call you? Auntie? Chelsea?

Yeah, what do they call you? Auntie? Chelsea?

No, they call me cheuse auntie. I'm not there, auntie. Even my nieces, Oh, this is funny. I'm taking my nieces and nephews to my York. I said only a kid's trip for this this summer. I said, only a kid's trip, no adults allowed. And so then my brother emails me yesterday and was like, uh, you know, Teddy's fourteen and he needs an adult to travel with him, which means his wife doesn't trust me alone with the children and the children's I want to repeat that the children's, nor should she. And so he's like, so I have to come. I'm like, oh, so you're coming. So then my other brother lays like, well, if Glenn's coming, I'm coming, and I'm like, this.

No, they call me cheuse auntie. I'm not there, auntie. Even my nieces, Oh, this is funny. I'm taking my nieces and nephews to my York. I said only a kid's trip for this this summer. I said, only a kid's trip, no adults allowed. And so then my brother emails me yesterday and was like, uh, you know, Teddy's fourteen and he needs an adult to travel with him, which means his wife doesn't trust me alone with the children and the children's I want to repeat that the children's, nor should she. And so he's like, so I have to come. I'm like, oh, so you're coming. So then my other brother lays like, well, if Glenn's coming, I'm coming, and I'm like, this.

Is exactly the dynamic I was hoping for. No spouses, the kids, my brother.

Is exactly the dynamic I was hoping for. No spouses, the kids, my brother.

There you go, then it's a party.

There you go, then it's a party.

Now, it's going to be so much fun. Yeah.

Now, it's going to be so much fun. Yeah.

I mean, if you only have people who are underage, who's going to take all your drugs this year?

I mean, if you only have people who are underage, who's going to take all your drugs this year?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I'll have to find some new customers.

I'll have to find some new customers.

Oh, you know what we need, We need people to right in.

Oh, you know what we need, We need people to right in.

We don't want to cover the same kinds of topics each episode, so I guess we want to get into different kind of categories of problems or questions that you might want help with.

We don't want to cover the same kinds of topics each episode, so I guess we want to get into different kind of categories of problems or questions that you might want help with.

Yeah, like if you haven't heard it on this show, Like, if you haven't heard your question, this is your sign to write in.

Yeah, like if you haven't heard it on this show, Like, if you haven't heard your question, this is your sign to write in.

All interpersonal affairs are of interest. All interpersonal affairs if you're having an affair, if you are having a problem with a loved one, a partner. I still think we should do a couple's counseling episode. I want couples together to come in sure for an issue or overall counseling. That would be fun. We're going to do a nice counseling session between my three girlfriends who visited us, right Amina and Marie and Sydney.

All interpersonal affairs are of interest. All interpersonal affairs if you're having an affair, if you are having a problem with a loved one, a partner. I still think we should do a couple's counseling episode. I want couples together to come in sure for an issue or overall counseling. That would be fun. We're going to do a nice counseling session between my three girlfriends who visited us, right Amina and Marie and Sydney.

So we'll get our counseling on. Definitely couples right in.

So we'll get our counseling on. Definitely couples right in.

And I also think if you have like a problem with a friend and you guys want to come on together, That's a great, great thing for us to do. If there's any you know, if you want to come on with your mom I'm or your sister or your brother or anything like that and you want to like hash out an issue, I think this is a good place to do that.

And I also think if you have like a problem with a friend and you guys want to come on together, That's a great, great thing for us to do. If there's any you know, if you want to come on with your mom I'm or your sister or your brother or anything like that and you want to like hash out an issue, I think this is a good place to do that.

Yeah. And the more specific the question, the better I think too.

Yeah. And the more specific the question, the better I think too.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, right into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Chelsea, I do have a couple of updates. Brenna wrote in after listening to our episode last year with Katie Couric, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I was listening to that episode the morning it came out, and I was ready for work. As Katie spoke about her cancer diagnosis and the importance of checking yourself for lumps, I thought to myself, Hey, I haven't felt myself for lumps in a pretty long time. While I reached down, and to my horror, I actually did feel a lump in my left breast. My heart stopped. Within a week of listening to that episode, I had gone to the doctor, received an ultrasound on my breast, had two mammograms and a biopsy taken. I'm thirty two years old. I've never had a mammogram in my life, and of course, like forty is kind of when you start getting those, so she wouldn't have otherwise gone. I've never had a mammogram in my life and no history of breast cancer in my family, and I was terrified. Luckily, the biopsy came back benine, but it was larger than they thought it should be, so in June I went back so it could be easily removed. Once it was taken out, they were able to test it and confirmed that the lump and I were both cancer free and I could go back to not having another mammogram until forty. I wanted to thank you for raising awareness about this. I've known my whole life that I'm supposed to check myself regularly, but that is advice I rarely follow. Without listening to your episode, who knows when I would have actually felt the lump. I also want to thank you for giving me that push to start therapy a few years ago and for normalizing it. I look forward to seeing you on tour this year. Brenna.

Yeah, right into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Chelsea, I do have a couple of updates. Brenna wrote in after listening to our episode last year with Katie Couric, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I was listening to that episode the morning it came out, and I was ready for work. As Katie spoke about her cancer diagnosis and the importance of checking yourself for lumps, I thought to myself, Hey, I haven't felt myself for lumps in a pretty long time. While I reached down, and to my horror, I actually did feel a lump in my left breast. My heart stopped. Within a week of listening to that episode, I had gone to the doctor, received an ultrasound on my breast, had two mammograms and a biopsy taken. I'm thirty two years old. I've never had a mammogram in my life, and of course, like forty is kind of when you start getting those, so she wouldn't have otherwise gone. I've never had a mammogram in my life and no history of breast cancer in my family, and I was terrified. Luckily, the biopsy came back benine, but it was larger than they thought it should be, so in June I went back so it could be easily removed. Once it was taken out, they were able to test it and confirmed that the lump and I were both cancer free and I could go back to not having another mammogram until forty. I wanted to thank you for raising awareness about this. I've known my whole life that I'm supposed to check myself regularly, but that is advice I rarely follow. Without listening to your episode, who knows when I would have actually felt the lump. I also want to thank you for giving me that push to start therapy a few years ago and for normalizing it. I look forward to seeing you on tour this year. Brenna.

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful breast. I know I need to do more breast self examinations. Also, now that I'm hearing.

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful breast. I know I need to do more breast self examinations. Also, now that I'm hearing.

That figure supposed to do it the week after year period, I think that's like the key time.

That figure supposed to do it the week after year period, I think that's like the key time.

Yeah, but I got an ablacion, so I don't know when my period. I thought my boobs were getting smaller, and I was like liking them.

Yeah, but I got an ablacion, so I don't know when my period. I thought my boobs were getting smaller, and I was like liking them.

I'm like, oh, they're a.

I'm like, oh, they're a.

Little bit like purchas souayant, less perky, like a little bit like yeah, And I was like, oh, oh, I guess I'm you know, forty nine. Maybe they're just kind of dropping a little bit.

Little bit like purchas souayant, less perky, like a little bit like yeah, And I was like, oh, oh, I guess I'm you know, forty nine. Maybe they're just kind of dropping a little bit.

But then I.

But then I.

Got I don't know what I'm getting my period because of that Ablasian And then they blew up. When I went to the Oscar parties my dress, my boobs were like it was like gargantuan, and I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my god, where did these come from? So I must be on my period, but they still haven't completely deflated. Yeah, so you're supposed to check a week after your period.

Got I don't know what I'm getting my period because of that Ablasian And then they blew up. When I went to the Oscar parties my dress, my boobs were like it was like gargantuan, and I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my god, where did these come from? So I must be on my period, but they still haven't completely deflated. Yeah, so you're supposed to check a week after your period.

Yes, I believe that's correct.

Yes, I believe that's correct.

So big. I don't even know if I would feel a lump.

So big. I don't even know if I would feel a lump.

I think maybe there's less swelling or whatever, so it's easier to find any lumps or bumps.

I think maybe there's less swelling or whatever, so it's easier to find any lumps or bumps.

Yeah, when they get little.

Yeah, when they get little.

Okay, Yeah, I was going to ask your ablasian. You went through with that and everything's been fine. Have you had less period?

Okay, Yeah, I was going to ask your ablasian. You went through with that and everything's been fine. Have you had less period?

I've never had a period since I got Yeah, my uterus scorched. My sister got it done and then told me about it, and I was like, I didn't know you could get that, and so so I went right away and was like, scorch it.

I've never had a period since I got Yeah, my uterus scorched. My sister got it done and then told me about it, and I was like, I didn't know you could get that, and so so I went right away and was like, scorch it.

Let's go.

Let's go.

I don't want any more uterine. I guess it gets rid of your uterine lining. Yeah. Yeah, so that you can't bleed anymore.

I don't want any more uterine. I guess it gets rid of your uterine lining. Yeah. Yeah, so that you can't bleed anymore.

And believe me, I mean it was the best thing.

And believe me, I mean it was the best thing.

I don't get a period, and every once in a while I feel my PMS, but not every month.

I don't get a period, and every once in a while I feel my PMS, but not every month.

It's like every few months.

It's like every few months.

That's incredible.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you can go and like wear address to an Oscar's party and you only have the symptom of having big boobs, like no other period symptoms. No.

And then you can go and like wear address to an Oscar's party and you only have the symptom of having big boobs, like no other period symptoms. No.

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I don't know.

Maybe I'm bitchier, but I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Maybe I'm bitchier, but I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

How were the Oscar parties?

How were the Oscar parties?

Oh? Fun, fun. I went to the Vanity Fair party and then I went to a Gaio series party, and yeah it was good. I was hume By two nothing crazy. And then I went to Deer Valley the next morning.

Oh? Fun, fun. I went to the Vanity Fair party and then I went to a Gaio series party, and yeah it was good. I was hume By two nothing crazy. And then I went to Deer Valley the next morning.

Oh fantastic, just like an easy pop by.

Oh fantastic, just like an easy pop by.

Yeah, saw a lot of friends, saw a lot of people.

Yeah, saw a lot of friends, saw a lot of people.

It was fun, good, good.

It was fun, good, good.

Our guest today is Happiness Expert, six time best selling author and host of the popular Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. Her most recent New York Times bestseller, Life and Five Cents. This comes out in paperback April thirtieth. Please welcome to the podcast, Gretchen Rubin.

Our guest today is Happiness Expert, six time best selling author and host of the popular Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. Her most recent New York Times bestseller, Life and Five Cents. This comes out in paperback April thirtieth. Please welcome to the podcast, Gretchen Rubin.

Hey, Chelsey, I'm so happy to be talking to you.

Hey, Chelsey, I'm so happy to be talking to you.

Oh, nice to be talking to you. So this book was interesting because you discussed the difficulty that you found in forming a meditation practice, and I think that's very common for many of our listeners. A lot of people are struggling with how to meditate.

Oh, nice to be talking to you. So this book was interesting because you discussed the difficulty that you found in forming a meditation practice, and I think that's very common for many of our listeners. A lot of people are struggling with how to meditate.

The thing that I found about the five senses which surprised me, is it's for practically anything you want to do to be happier or healthier, or more productive or more creative, we can use our five senses. It's like the Swiss army knife. If you want to calm down, you can use your five senses. If you want to pump up, you can use your five senses. If you want to connect with the moment, if you want to revisit the past, if you want to connect with other people, if you want to calm down, if you want to be creative, you want to just like you, grind it out. All of these things can be done with the five senses. So it was just this thing. It was kind of a perspective I had never tapped into. And then I found all of these great exercises and approaches that were, you know, right at the you know, the tip of my nose, right at hand.

The thing that I found about the five senses which surprised me, is it's for practically anything you want to do to be happier or healthier, or more productive or more creative, we can use our five senses. It's like the Swiss army knife. If you want to calm down, you can use your five senses. If you want to pump up, you can use your five senses. If you want to connect with the moment, if you want to revisit the past, if you want to connect with other people, if you want to calm down, if you want to be creative, you want to just like you, grind it out. All of these things can be done with the five senses. So it was just this thing. It was kind of a perspective I had never tapped into. And then I found all of these great exercises and approaches that were, you know, right at the you know, the tip of my nose, right at hand.

I did a huge amount of research.

I did a huge amount of research.

I'm just like the kind of person who always runs to the library. The only way I can get out of my head is sort of throw a book, and so so part of the fun of it was finding things to try. For instance, heinz Ketchup, like we've all had heinz ketch up. And then what I learned is heinz ketch up. Probably the reason that is so popular and is like the secret ingredient in so many popular foods is that it's one of the extremely rare flavors that's sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami. It's all five and one. That is hard to do, and so it's just fun to learn something like that and then go taste it and then you're like, heinz, ketchup is amazing.

I'm just like the kind of person who always runs to the library. The only way I can get out of my head is sort of throw a book, and so so part of the fun of it was finding things to try. For instance, heinz Ketchup, like we've all had heinz ketch up. And then what I learned is heinz ketch up. Probably the reason that is so popular and is like the secret ingredient in so many popular foods is that it's one of the extremely rare flavors that's sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami. It's all five and one. That is hard to do, and so it's just fun to learn something like that and then go taste it and then you're like, heinz, ketchup is amazing.

It's so complex, it's so rich, but who knew.

It's so complex, it's so rich, but who knew.

So yeah, So part of the fun for me was discovering all these aspects of the world that I had just I was so stuck up in my head that I didn't pay attention to them.

So yeah, So part of the fun for me was discovering all these aspects of the world that I had just I was so stuck up in my head that I didn't pay attention to them.

Okay, I just want to go on the record and say that I fucking hate ketchup. So what does that say about me? I'm one of the only people I know that does not I don't like the smell, I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture. I don't like any of it.

Okay, I just want to go on the record and say that I fucking hate ketchup. So what does that say about me? I'm one of the only people I know that does not I don't like the smell, I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture. I don't like any of it.

Well, then that's that's a good thing to know about yourself. And that's another thing that really surprised me about the five senses is how we all live in very different sensory worlds. Like a lot of people might say, well, of course ketchup taste good, or of course ketchup enhances flavor, but you're saying that is not my experience.

Well, then that's that's a good thing to know about yourself. And that's another thing that really surprised me about the five senses is how we all live in very different sensory worlds. Like a lot of people might say, well, of course ketchup taste good, or of course ketchup enhances flavor, but you're saying that is not my experience.

I don't like it. Same thing with the textures.

I don't like it. Same thing with the textures.

You know, just I thought that everybody liked sort of silky textures. I thought they were sort of almost like by definition, a good feeling. But turns out a lot of people detest kind of a silky satiny feeling. It almost like gives them the creeps. Where do you weigh in on the silkiness question?

You know, just I thought that everybody liked sort of silky textures. I thought they were sort of almost like by definition, a good feeling. But turns out a lot of people detest kind of a silky satiny feeling. It almost like gives them the creeps. Where do you weigh in on the silkiness question?

Kind of mind?

Kind of mind?

I like silky, I like that you like, yeah, that's fine.

I like silky, I like that you like, yeah, that's fine.

I don't feel about the candy corn. That's another candy corn. Okay.

I don't feel about the candy corn. That's another candy corn. Okay.

Yeah, there's a lot of things that I have a violet reaction to. I wonder do you not like sweet things I like? I like gummy bears and Twizzlers, those are my favorite items. And twig spars those are good.

Yeah, there's a lot of things that I have a violet reaction to. I wonder do you not like sweet things I like? I like gummy bears and Twizzlers, those are my favorite items. And twig spars those are good.

To Okay, okay, so you do like some sweet.

To Okay, okay, so you do like some sweet.

Things, but I'm not a normal Yeah, I don't subscribe to a lot of things that people find like staples. I'm like, I also have an aversion to water. I find that to be very boring and unsatisfying. So and I really am annoyed that people are constantly trying to force me to drink it.

Things, but I'm not a normal Yeah, I don't subscribe to a lot of things that people find like staples. I'm like, I also have an aversion to water. I find that to be very boring and unsatisfying. So and I really am annoyed that people are constantly trying to force me to drink it.

Yeah, okay, so.

Yeah, okay, so.

Let's talk about how the senses though, how focusing on those and harnessing your relationship with your senses actually is an act of mindfulness.

Let's talk about how the senses though, how focusing on those and harnessing your relationship with your senses actually is an act of mindfulness.

Right.

Right.

Well, as you said, like I've tried meditating, I've given it, solitarize.

Well, as you said, like I've tried meditating, I've given it, solitarize.

I even did a silent meditation retreat. Did not work for me.

I even did a silent meditation retreat. Did not work for me.

But the great thing about the sense is is like if what you want is to cultivate mindfulness, like that is the way we experience the senses, Like you're experiencing it right here right now. You can't book market, you can't come back to it later.

But the great thing about the sense is is like if what you want is to cultivate mindfulness, like that is the way we experience the senses, Like you're experiencing it right here right now. You can't book market, you can't come back to it later.

It's always going to be new.

It's always going to be new.

And for a lot of our senses, you can't even keep experiencing it over and over. For instance, smell, right, even if you love a smell, if you keep sniffing and sniffing, it just fades away because that's the way you know, smell is a difference detector. So once something is not changing, we can't smell it anymore. And so turning into your five senses is a great way to cultivate mindfulness. And of course there is a kind of a mindfulness technique called five four three two one.

And for a lot of our senses, you can't even keep experiencing it over and over. For instance, smell, right, even if you love a smell, if you keep sniffing and sniffing, it just fades away because that's the way you know, smell is a difference detector. So once something is not changing, we can't smell it anymore. And so turning into your five senses is a great way to cultivate mindfulness. And of course there is a kind of a mindfulness technique called five four three two one.

Well, let's talk about five four three two one.

Well, let's talk about five four three two one.

Well, I don't really meditate, so I don't use it a lot of people find it very helpful, Like, there are five things that you see, do.

Well, I don't really meditate, so I don't use it a lot of people find it very helpful, Like, there are five things that you see, do.

You do this one? Is this one?

You do this one? Is this one?

No?

No?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know this either, So it's five things you see, four things you hear, et cetera.

I don't know this either, So it's five things you see, four things you hear, et cetera.

So what was it about meditation that was so tricky for you?

So what was it about meditation that was so tricky for you?

Yeah, I mean whatever other benefit people were getting, I was not getting. And one of the things I've really come to believe is that no tool fits every hand, and that whenever somebody says this is the best way or this is the right way to improve your habits or to make yourself happier, it's like, well, maybe that works really well for you, and maybe that works really well for a lot of people. But if it doesn't work for me, let me try something else. And there's no need to just sort of persist in something because everybody tells you it's the right thing to do if it doesn't work for you. So I keep trying it because of all these friends who are like, oh, it's so you know, you have to try it again. And of course people tell me that the very fact that I don't benefit from meditation means that I needed all the more. But I'm like, there's other things that feel more productive and more entasting to me. So let me spend my time and energy on those things. But I'll probably try it again.

Yeah, I mean whatever other benefit people were getting, I was not getting. And one of the things I've really come to believe is that no tool fits every hand, and that whenever somebody says this is the best way or this is the right way to improve your habits or to make yourself happier, it's like, well, maybe that works really well for you, and maybe that works really well for a lot of people. But if it doesn't work for me, let me try something else. And there's no need to just sort of persist in something because everybody tells you it's the right thing to do if it doesn't work for you. So I keep trying it because of all these friends who are like, oh, it's so you know, you have to try it again. And of course people tell me that the very fact that I don't benefit from meditation means that I needed all the more. But I'm like, there's other things that feel more productive and more entasting to me. So let me spend my time and energy on those things. But I'll probably try it again.

Yeah, I do think it's so interesting because meditation quote unquote wasn't a good fit for you, and yet you wound up writing a book about the five senses and like achieving my mindfulness kind of that way. And then also, gratitude journal wasn't something that you really connected with, and yet you have like your happiness journal, the one sentence a day is sort of happiness journal, and that for me it feels very similar and feels like your gets way into those things.

Yeah, I do think it's so interesting because meditation quote unquote wasn't a good fit for you, and yet you wound up writing a book about the five senses and like achieving my mindfulness kind of that way. And then also, gratitude journal wasn't something that you really connected with, and yet you have like your happiness journal, the one sentence a day is sort of happiness journal, and that for me it feels very similar and feels like your gets way into those things.

No exactly, and that's a great point.

No exactly, and that's a great point.

It's that there we can all achieve the same aim, but we might find different ways to achieve it. So I was deeply annoyed by a gratitude journal, but a one sentence journal did the same thing for me, but in a way that felt right for me. For all of us, there's no one right way to go about these things. That's really figuring out what what do I want and what's the right way for me? Because if you don't like candy corns, candy corns aren't going to make you happier, even if somebody else is like the highlight of my ears when the candy corns come out, you know, it's like, Okay, well people are different.

It's that there we can all achieve the same aim, but we might find different ways to achieve it. So I was deeply annoyed by a gratitude journal, but a one sentence journal did the same thing for me, but in a way that felt right for me. For all of us, there's no one right way to go about these things. That's really figuring out what what do I want and what's the right way for me? Because if you don't like candy corns, candy corns aren't going to make you happier, even if somebody else is like the highlight of my ears when the candy corns come out, you know, it's like, Okay, well people are different.

So can you talk a little about what you did discover works for you with regard to your five senses?

So can you talk a little about what you did discover works for you with regard to your five senses?

Oh yeah, so many things.

Oh yeah, so many things.

One thing that I did was that I started I was going to do it for a year and I've done it ever since. Butch As, I go to the Metropolitan Museum every day. I'm so fortunate I live within walking distance of the met and I go every every single day.

One thing that I did was that I started I was going to do it for a year and I've done it ever since. Butch As, I go to the Metropolitan Museum every day. I'm so fortunate I live within walking distance of the met and I go every every single day.

I'm very interested in sort of repetition.

I'm very interested in sort of repetition.

I think a lot of people wouldn't like to do the same thing over and over, but I love it.

I think a lot of people wouldn't like to do the same thing over and over, but I love it.

So that's a big thing that I did.

So that's a big thing that I did.

Another thing that I did, and Chelsea, I'll ask you this, when you really need to focus, what sound environment works for you? Silence, music with words, music without words, same song over and over for eight hours. It's cacophony like a train station or busy coffee shop, like busy home.

Another thing that I did, and Chelsea, I'll ask you this, when you really need to focus, what sound environment works for you? Silence, music with words, music without words, same song over and over for eight hours. It's cacophony like a train station or busy coffee shop, like busy home.

What works for you when you really want to focus?

What works for you when you really want to focus?

I would say I err on the side of complete silence, but I am also able to focus, and this is because of the hours of like I've put into meditation, I've definitely noticed a major uptick in my ability to focus within chaos. So if I am at a coffee shop or if I am on a plane, I can also harness the same kind of focus. My desire is to have quiet, but if there's music on or if there's talking, I can also go in and just and just focus. So that's not something that I was able to do for a very long time. I was very easily distracted. Now the distractions are more you know, your phone, social media. You know, you hear a thing on your phone, You're like, oh, let me go. So I've just I've picked up habits where I leave my phone, you know, in a place where I'm not going to access it. You yes, and but yes, I have been able. I'm able to harness my focus in most environments. Yes, but I would prefer silence, yeah.

I would say I err on the side of complete silence, but I am also able to focus, and this is because of the hours of like I've put into meditation, I've definitely noticed a major uptick in my ability to focus within chaos. So if I am at a coffee shop or if I am on a plane, I can also harness the same kind of focus. My desire is to have quiet, but if there's music on or if there's talking, I can also go in and just and just focus. So that's not something that I was able to do for a very long time. I was very easily distracted. Now the distractions are more you know, your phone, social media. You know, you hear a thing on your phone, You're like, oh, let me go. So I've just I've picked up habits where I leave my phone, you know, in a place where I'm not going to access it. You yes, and but yes, I have been able. I'm able to harness my focus in most environments. Yes, but I would prefer silence, yeah.

Yeah, and the same way.

Yeah, and the same way.

Well, speaking of smartphone, like, one of the things I looked at is how can I use my five senses to help me disengage with my phone when I want to. So one of the things you mentioned, the classic, which is just put it somewhere out of the way so you can't get your hands on it.

Well, speaking of smartphone, like, one of the things I looked at is how can I use my five senses to help me disengage with my phone when I want to. So one of the things you mentioned, the classic, which is just put it somewhere out of the way so you can't get your hands on it.

That works.

That works.

Another one is to turn off notifications because they're so distracting. My phone is on silent all the time and so and I don't understand how people can deal with just like these random beeps. I find it immensely distracting. And here's another thing that a lot of people don't know about, which is you can turn your phone to grayscale, so that it's only in black, white, and gray. It's like your grandparents' TV set instead of in full rich color. And it's much harder to use your phone. It's like, actually more difficult to use it. And of course it's much less interesting when like all the photographs are in black and white and all the beautiful colors are gone, and then your phone isn't engaging in your senses the way it's trying to do. It's of course, it's cleverly engine by the most brilliant people to try to hook you in every second, so we can use.

Another one is to turn off notifications because they're so distracting. My phone is on silent all the time and so and I don't understand how people can deal with just like these random beeps. I find it immensely distracting. And here's another thing that a lot of people don't know about, which is you can turn your phone to grayscale, so that it's only in black, white, and gray. It's like your grandparents' TV set instead of in full rich color. And it's much harder to use your phone. It's like, actually more difficult to use it. And of course it's much less interesting when like all the photographs are in black and white and all the beautiful colors are gone, and then your phone isn't engaging in your senses the way it's trying to do. It's of course, it's cleverly engine by the most brilliant people to try to hook you in every second, so we can use.

Our senses to foil that as well.

Our senses to foil that as well.

Okay, so how do you use your five senses to ground yourself more in the present moment?

Okay, so how do you use your five senses to ground yourself more in the present moment?

Well, of course, the five senses are just a great way to be present in the moment because we have to think about like what am I seeing, what am I hearing? What am I smelling? And one of the things I found is that a lot of us have a neglected sense, like there's there are certain senses that we really we really appreciate, and so we're wanting to have adventures with that sense. We turn to it for comfort and pleasure, We use it to engage with other people, we want to learn about it, we want to you know, we're really appreciating it. But then there are the neglected senses where there are ones where we aren't using it for mindfulness and we aren't paying attention to it. Maybe we're only paying attention to it when we're annoyed or irritated or we want to avoid the downside of it. And so it's great to know you're a neglected sense because that's where we have a lot of low hanging through That's that's something that you can turn into and say, well, how could I have adventures or how could I connect with other people, or how could I get more comfort and pleasure out of it? So I actually created a quiz where you can you know on my website where you can find out what is your neglected sense and then from that figure.

Well, of course, the five senses are just a great way to be present in the moment because we have to think about like what am I seeing, what am I hearing? What am I smelling? And one of the things I found is that a lot of us have a neglected sense, like there's there are certain senses that we really we really appreciate, and so we're wanting to have adventures with that sense. We turn to it for comfort and pleasure, We use it to engage with other people, we want to learn about it, we want to you know, we're really appreciating it. But then there are the neglected senses where there are ones where we aren't using it for mindfulness and we aren't paying attention to it. Maybe we're only paying attention to it when we're annoyed or irritated or we want to avoid the downside of it. And so it's great to know you're a neglected sense because that's where we have a lot of low hanging through That's that's something that you can turn into and say, well, how could I have adventures or how could I connect with other people, or how could I get more comfort and pleasure out of it? So I actually created a quiz where you can you know on my website where you can find out what is your neglected sense and then from that figure.

Out how you could tap into it to be happier.

Out how you could tap into it to be happier.

And what about people who are struggling to maintain a level of happiness or constantly thinking about like the next negative thing that could happen, like they can't sit comfortably in their happiness.

And what about people who are struggling to maintain a level of happiness or constantly thinking about like the next negative thing that could happen, like they can't sit comfortably in their happiness.

Yeah, there's a very persistent belief that if we rehearse disaster or unhappiness will somehow offset it. So I think for some people there's only almost like a feeling of magic that if I think about it a lot, somehow it won't happen, which, of course that doesn't work like that, And so I think for people who face that challenge, it can be very helpful to say, Okay, well let me just take a breath, let me just look around, really look at the sky, really hear what I'm hearing, really smell. I live in New York Cities, so it's very smelly. And I finally just like walking down the street and like, what actually am I smelling? Like maybe I'm walking by a hair salun so I'm smelling that hair salon smell, or I'm walking by a hardware store. The hardware store smell is one of my very favorite smells in the world, and so just taking a moment to dial into your body like that a lot of times can help people manage that anxiety about you know, what's going to unfold in the future.

Yeah, there's a very persistent belief that if we rehearse disaster or unhappiness will somehow offset it. So I think for some people there's only almost like a feeling of magic that if I think about it a lot, somehow it won't happen, which, of course that doesn't work like that, And so I think for people who face that challenge, it can be very helpful to say, Okay, well let me just take a breath, let me just look around, really look at the sky, really hear what I'm hearing, really smell. I live in New York Cities, so it's very smelly. And I finally just like walking down the street and like, what actually am I smelling? Like maybe I'm walking by a hair salun so I'm smelling that hair salon smell, or I'm walking by a hardware store. The hardware store smell is one of my very favorite smells in the world, and so just taking a moment to dial into your body like that a lot of times can help people manage that anxiety about you know, what's going to unfold in the future.

Going back to what you said about going to the mat every day, you talk a little bit about the difference between something that you're experiencing with a lot of repetition and sort of noticing the nuance when you see the same thing all the time. Can you talk a little bit about what you learned about repetition versus novelty and how it affects different people.

Going back to what you said about going to the mat every day, you talk a little bit about the difference between something that you're experiencing with a lot of repetition and sort of noticing the nuance when you see the same thing all the time. Can you talk a little bit about what you learned about repetition versus novelty and how it affects different people.

This is fascinating.

This is fascinating.

What the research shows is that people who do novel things tend to be happier, even things as kind of elemental as going to a new restaurant for dinner, going to a different neighborhood.

What the research shows is that people who do novel things tend to be happier, even things as kind of elemental as going to a new restaurant for dinner, going to a different neighborhood.

So there's definitely a huge role for novelty and happiness.

So there's definitely a huge role for novelty and happiness.

But I also think that you can't overlook the pleasures of repetition, and I think people are really different. I think some people really love repetition and familiarity and other people are There's sort of like, if you could do anything every day, why would you waste it going to the same place over and over.

But I also think that you can't overlook the pleasures of repetition, and I think people are really different. I think some people really love repetition and familiarity and other people are There's sort of like, if you could do anything every day, why would you waste it going to the same place over and over.

It seems like a wasted opportunity.

It seems like a wasted opportunity.

But I've always been really fascinated by how things change very gradually over time and doing something over and over. And I assume that I was very idiosyncratic about that, But ever since the book came out, I've heard from a ton of people where they do exactly the same walk with their dog every day and they enjoy seeing like how this one tree changes over time, or they'll go to a river and take a picture at sunset every night, and like they like doing it over and over and over again. So I think it is something where people are different. But what I found is things change much more.

But I've always been really fascinated by how things change very gradually over time and doing something over and over. And I assume that I was very idiosyncratic about that, But ever since the book came out, I've heard from a ton of people where they do exactly the same walk with their dog every day and they enjoy seeing like how this one tree changes over time, or they'll go to a river and take a picture at sunset every night, and like they like doing it over and over and over again. So I think it is something where people are different. But what I found is things change much more.

Than I thought.

Than I thought.

Like I went into it thinking like, oh, you know, this is basically going to be the same every day, but there's so much change, like when you are able to appreciate the subtleties. And I just think that doing something over and over and over, and especially something like a big experience visiting a museum a lot of times. I don't know about you, but you have this feeling like, well, I have to make the most of my time, right, I have to prioritize I have to be efficient. It's like, if you're doing something every day, it's like you don't have to be efficient, you get all do You could just waste time, it doesn't. No day matters. So for me it was and it was just this chance to just completely get out of my head and into this beautiful space.

Like I went into it thinking like, oh, you know, this is basically going to be the same every day, but there's so much change, like when you are able to appreciate the subtleties. And I just think that doing something over and over and over, and especially something like a big experience visiting a museum a lot of times. I don't know about you, but you have this feeling like, well, I have to make the most of my time, right, I have to prioritize I have to be efficient. It's like, if you're doing something every day, it's like you don't have to be efficient, you get all do You could just waste time, it doesn't. No day matters. So for me it was and it was just this chance to just completely get out of my head and into this beautiful space.

And so I just never stopped because I love doing it so much.

And so I just never stopped because I love doing it so much.

Yeah, and I also wonder you know, you have talked about how focusing on your senses has helped you change your relationship to yourself, but I wonder if it affected your relationships with your kids, your husband, your friends, your interpersonal relationships.

Yeah, and I also wonder you know, you have talked about how focusing on your senses has helped you change your relationship to yourself, but I wonder if it affected your relationships with your kids, your husband, your friends, your interpersonal relationships.

No, one hundred percent. And it's a great way to connect with other people. Now, of course we know this from like what is the classic thing. It's like you go out to dinner with your friends, and that's a great way to connect through a sensory experience. But you can do a lot of things like I went to a sound bath with a friend. I had a flavor party where I had all my friends come over and then we did well. One of the things we did was we tasted ketchup, which would not have been maybe not everybody would have enjoyed it as much as I did, and we did taste comparisons, like three different potato chips and three you.

No, one hundred percent. And it's a great way to connect with other people. Now, of course we know this from like what is the classic thing. It's like you go out to dinner with your friends, and that's a great way to connect through a sensory experience. But you can do a lot of things like I went to a sound bath with a friend. I had a flavor party where I had all my friends come over and then we did well. One of the things we did was we tasted ketchup, which would not have been maybe not everybody would have enjoyed it as much as I did, and we did taste comparisons, like three different potato chips and three you.

Know what it's called when you hate the smell, taste, texture, like reject ketchup. Yes, okay, it's not like one sense like I don't like the taste.

Know what it's called when you hate the smell, taste, texture, like reject ketchup. Yes, okay, it's not like one sense like I don't like the taste.

It's all encompassing.

It's all encompassing.

Do you like the color? I think it's a nice color.

Do you like the color? I think it's a nice color.

No, because I know what that color comes with.

No, because I know what that color comes with.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, you know you know what you don't want? What about ketchup based things like meat loaf, things that have a lot of ketchup?

Okay, okay, okay, okay, you know you know what you don't want? What about ketchup based things like meat loaf, things that have a lot of ketchup?

Yeah, I can.

Yeah, I can.

Have those, but again, not my face, not my.

Have those, but again, not my face, not my.

Face, not your favorite, yea, not your favorite.

Face, not your favorite, yea, not your favorite.

But I mean even that is fun at the taste party where you find out like, oh okay, this friend of mine that I've had for years hates ketchup and I never knew that. Or we were all reminiscing about the candy that we ate as kids, and it was like, but there were all these really regional differences in what kinds of candies like we wanted as children, And it's really dining in the dark work with my family.

But I mean even that is fun at the taste party where you find out like, oh okay, this friend of mine that I've had for years hates ketchup and I never knew that. Or we were all reminiscing about the candy that we ate as kids, and it was like, but there were all these really regional differences in what kinds of candies like we wanted as children, And it's really dining in the dark work with my family.

So we went where they liked you. Oh I went there.

So we went where they liked you. Oh I went there.

Yeah, Yeah, interesting, right, Like it's sort of a memorable adventure to go on. So it is a great way to connect with other people and you can think about, Yeah, we could go for hike outside, we could go to dinner, but maybe we want to do something that's more different, that's going to tap into our senses in a different way.

Yeah, Yeah, interesting, right, Like it's sort of a memorable adventure to go on. So it is a great way to connect with other people and you can think about, Yeah, we could go for hike outside, we could go to dinner, but maybe we want to do something that's more different, that's going to tap into our senses in a different way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My friend and I went, and I wrote about this in one of my books. We went to a restaurant actually called Dining in the Dark don la Noir. It was called in London, and you eat in the dark and you order in the dark, and you're it's supposed to heighten your experience and the taste and all of those things.

My friend and I went, and I wrote about this in one of my books. We went to a restaurant actually called Dining in the Dark don la Noir. It was called in London, and you eat in the dark and you order in the dark, and you're it's supposed to heighten your experience and the taste and all of those things.

Well, okay, when I did it, everybody clearly was very suspicious that we were going to be fed something that we wouldn't otherwise eat, and so I think everybody was very apprehensive. I think I might have enjoyed it more if i'd kind of known what I was getting into.

Well, okay, when I did it, everybody clearly was very suspicious that we were going to be fed something that we wouldn't otherwise eat, and so I think everybody was very apprehensive. I think I might have enjoyed it more if i'd kind of known what I was getting into.

What was your experience? What did you think about that?

What was your experience? What did you think about that?

Yeah, I wasn't that impressed with the food. It was more of like a it was more of a heightened sense of not being able to see where you are, what you're eating, who you're with, who's looking at you?

Yeah, I wasn't that impressed with the food. It was more of like a it was more of a heightened sense of not being able to see where you are, what you're eating, who you're with, who's looking at you?

No, I kept reaching out to touch my other family members because I didn't feel oriented toward them.

No, I kept reaching out to touch my other family members because I didn't feel oriented toward them.

Right, Yes, it's very disorienting.

Right, Yes, it's very disorienting.

So it's interesting, it's very but again it's like it's very memorable. It's so different from what we would usually experience that, like, you know, for both of us, these experience happened years ago, and we have a clear I mean I certainly have a clearer memory of that than a thousand other dinners that I went to.

So it's interesting, it's very but again it's like it's very memorable. It's so different from what we would usually experience that, like, you know, for both of us, these experience happened years ago, and we have a clear I mean I certainly have a clearer memory of that than a thousand other dinners that I went to.

With my family.

With my family.

So yeah, so doing again it's something novel, so that makes it more interesting, and it's dialing into our senses.

So yeah, so doing again it's something novel, so that makes it more interesting, and it's dialing into our senses.

In a way that's really fun.

In a way that's really fun.

And also the thing about the census is every you know, you can do it so that everybody experiences it together.

And also the thing about the census is every you know, you can do it so that everybody experiences it together.

They all have their opinion.

They all have their opinion.

So someone was telling me that at a big family like you know, Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever, they would buy you know, this bizarre ice cream flavors. You're like, who wants rosemary in time ice cream? Like you're you're intrigued, but like who wants to like two more things?

So someone was telling me that at a big family like you know, Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever, they would buy you know, this bizarre ice cream flavors. You're like, who wants rosemary in time ice cream? Like you're you're intrigued, but like who wants to like two more things?

I can't stand roastberry and time.

I can't stand roastberry and time.

So right, so they would get all the bizarre, the cream corn, all the strains, ice cream flavors, and then they would pass it around and everybody would have a spoonful or two, and then they would talk about what they liked or didn't like it, and it was just like a three year old can talk about it, a ninety three year old can talk about it.

So right, so they would get all the bizarre, the cream corn, all the strains, ice cream flavors, and then they would pass it around and everybody would have a spoonful or two, and then they would talk about what they liked or didn't like it, and it was just like a three year old can talk about it, a ninety three year old can talk about it.

Everybody's sharing this experience. It's kind of fun.

Everybody's sharing this experience. It's kind of fun.

It's playful, and it's a way to bring people together through a sensory experience in a way that's unconventional but really fun.

It's playful, and it's a way to bring people together through a sensory experience in a way that's unconventional but really fun.

Great, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're going to be right back to take some callers, and we're back.

Great, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're going to be right back to take some callers, and we're back.

We are back, Sarah, Right, you're Chelsea. My husband and I have spent the last three years learning about life outside of Mormonism. It's scary and amazing and freeing. My husband is preparing to go on a psilocybin journey to learn more about himself and a spirituality. I'm truly excited for him, and while I don't personally feel called to sit with psychedelics, I want to honor him and his journey. So my question for you is this, how can I show my support and help him prepare for his journey, and how can I get past my own concerns and fully embrace whatever may come for him and for us, Sarah, I.

We are back, Sarah, Right, you're Chelsea. My husband and I have spent the last three years learning about life outside of Mormonism. It's scary and amazing and freeing. My husband is preparing to go on a psilocybin journey to learn more about himself and a spirituality. I'm truly excited for him, and while I don't personally feel called to sit with psychedelics, I want to honor him and his journey. So my question for you is this, how can I show my support and help him prepare for his journey, and how can I get past my own concerns and fully embrace whatever may come for him and for us, Sarah, I.

Would say, ask him, ask him how he wants to be supported. It's it sounds like she's not going to do it herself, So what would he what would he want to be supported?

Would say, ask him, ask him how he wants to be supported. It's it sounds like she's not going to do it herself, So what would he what would he want to be supported?

Yeah, and I think, you know, opening a dialogue and keeping that dialogue open about fears or misgivings or things that he's looking forward to, or you know, any sort of I don't know, maybe some negative feelings that he has attached to it. I would just try to diminish those as best I could as a partner, as a loving partner in support of him that this is going to be a positive experience. I think the most important thing you can do when you go into these experiences is to be open and to be ready for whatever, and also to have the confidence and the feeling that it's going to be a great experience, like not to go in scared and not to go in with any sort of kind of negativity around it. So I think learning as much as you can about what he's working on is going to be a helpful tool to balance him and show him like a support and that's pretty much all you can do, you know. I don't think you should be labor it to the point where it's you know, annoying and like, Okay, I need you to talk about everything. Like as much as he's comfortable, I think you make yourself, You make your presence known.

Yeah, and I think, you know, opening a dialogue and keeping that dialogue open about fears or misgivings or things that he's looking forward to, or you know, any sort of I don't know, maybe some negative feelings that he has attached to it. I would just try to diminish those as best I could as a partner, as a loving partner in support of him that this is going to be a positive experience. I think the most important thing you can do when you go into these experiences is to be open and to be ready for whatever, and also to have the confidence and the feeling that it's going to be a great experience, like not to go in scared and not to go in with any sort of kind of negativity around it. So I think learning as much as you can about what he's working on is going to be a helpful tool to balance him and show him like a support and that's pretty much all you can do, you know. I don't think you should be labor it to the point where it's you know, annoying and like, Okay, I need you to talk about everything. Like as much as he's comfortable, I think you make yourself, You make your presence known.

I'm here.

I'm here.

I want to be here with you and for you, and however that takes shape. Let me know what you're comfortable with and let him guide.

I want to be here with you and for you, and however that takes shape. Let me know what you're comfortable with and let him guide.

You and stay curious, as you say, like, be interested and listen about whatever it is that he's discovering.

You and stay curious, as you say, like, be interested and listen about whatever it is that he's discovering.

I think the biggest gift we can give anyone going through anything that is different is to listen. Right, We can listen and listen and listen, and people will usually figure everything out. If they're honest with themselves and they're in a place of learning, they are able to talk through most things, you know. And so anything that can spark a conversation or can ignite a conversation that you may have not had yet, you know, is always good to go into new territories and to talk about things that haven't been unearthed yet, because I think when he comes out of it, there can also be a feeling of like separateness when somebody goes on a journey and they come back, because it's kind of ineffable. You can't even describe what happened to you to the to the next person. And I would say to always try to bridge that gap, like it doesn't matter that you didn't experience it, You're there to enjoy his experience. I would always just move closer to the person who's going through something to make sure that your presence is felt, your presence is known, and they know you're right next to them.

I think the biggest gift we can give anyone going through anything that is different is to listen. Right, We can listen and listen and listen, and people will usually figure everything out. If they're honest with themselves and they're in a place of learning, they are able to talk through most things, you know. And so anything that can spark a conversation or can ignite a conversation that you may have not had yet, you know, is always good to go into new territories and to talk about things that haven't been unearthed yet, because I think when he comes out of it, there can also be a feeling of like separateness when somebody goes on a journey and they come back, because it's kind of ineffable. You can't even describe what happened to you to the to the next person. And I would say to always try to bridge that gap, like it doesn't matter that you didn't experience it, You're there to enjoy his experience. I would always just move closer to the person who's going through something to make sure that your presence is felt, your presence is known, and they know you're right next to them.

It sounded from her question like maybe she's feeling a little bit of apprehension about it.

It sounded from her question like maybe she's feeling a little bit of apprehension about it.

Yeah, it did sound like that.

Yeah, it did sound like that.

What you're saying is don't like sort of don't communicate that to him, because he'll have a better experience if he's not picking up on your concerns. So maybe it's like confide that to someone else because.

What you're saying is don't like sort of don't communicate that to him, because he'll have a better experience if he's not picking up on your concerns. So maybe it's like confide that to someone else because.

It's also not about you, really, it's about him, So make it about him.

It's also not about you, really, it's about him, So make it about him.

Right, Yeah, you both and tell say correct me if I'm wrong. But when you first tried Iohwaska, it was sort of like you didn't really feel much, Is that right? I think you both had sort of like not an experience. Obviously psilocybin's different, but not the experience you expected to have when you tried it, right.

Right, Yeah, you both and tell say correct me if I'm wrong. But when you first tried Iohwaska, it was sort of like you didn't really feel much, Is that right? I think you both had sort of like not an experience. Obviously psilocybin's different, but not the experience you expected to have when you tried it, right.

Yeah, I mean I think I was pulled out of mind because in my friend's reactions to their own experiences. I was with two friends, so that kind of that kind of pulled me away. But when I was alone, yes, I was able to feel it. What about you, Gretchen, Yeah, I.

Yeah, I mean I think I was pulled out of mind because in my friend's reactions to their own experiences. I was with two friends, so that kind of that kind of pulled me away. But when I was alone, yes, I was able to feel it. What about you, Gretchen, Yeah, I.

Didn't really have much of an experience either. I threw up three times. I was like, well did I just sort of clear it? But I was also in a place that was intense. It's interesting that you said that you were sort of pulled pulled out of it by a friend because where I was was intensely, intensely cold, and I almost wonder if my body was like you know what, you can't you can't disengage.