It's Brandon Dawson here. Welcome to another episode of Building Billions. I have some great guys here, and we're going to be talking about all sorts of things. This is an episode you're not going to want to miss. You know, it takes a lot to choose to build a business, let alone be an eight figure, nine figure or ten figure earner. But some things are tougher than building businesses. And one thing I know of my experience in life is people who are tough are tough. I'm going to introduce you to a couple guys here. Actually, I'm going to let them introduce themselves, tell you who they are, what they do for a living. And we're going to jump into this episode of Building Billions with Brandon Dawson. Guys. Introduce yourself.

It's Brandon Dawson here. Welcome to another episode of Building Billions. I have some great guys here, and we're going to be talking about all sorts of things. This is an episode you're not going to want to miss. You know, it takes a lot to choose to build a business, let alone be an eight figure, nine figure or ten figure earner. But some things are tougher than building businesses. And one thing I know of my experience in life is people who are tough are tough. I'm going to introduce you to a couple guys here. Actually, I'm going to let them introduce themselves, tell you who they are, what they do for a living. And we're going to jump into this episode of Building Billions with Brandon Dawson. Guys. Introduce yourself.

Hey, Brandon. Thanks. Uh, so I'm Sean Mattson, um, co-founder and CEO of a company called Mapbox. Uh, we sell gear and technology that we've developed over the years back to the government. Um, and prior to the start of the business, uh, served 13 years as a Navy Seal, a Navy Seal. Here you go.

Hey, Brandon. Thanks. Uh, so I'm Sean Mattson, um, co-founder and CEO of a company called Mapbox. Uh, we sell gear and technology that we've developed over the years back to the government. Um, and prior to the start of the business, uh, served 13 years as a Navy Seal, a Navy Seal. Here you go.

And his buddy Zach.

And his buddy Zach.

Uh, good to be here. Zach Steinbach. Uh, so Sean and I actually went through training together, uh, and then went to seal team four together and Iraq together and everything else. And now we're, uh, running that back together. So.

Uh, good to be here. Zach Steinbach. Uh, so Sean and I actually went through training together, uh, and then went to seal team four together and Iraq together and everything else. And now we're, uh, running that back together. So.

So how long have you guys been business partners?

So how long have you guys been business partners?

So officially it's 13 years. But we we had the initial concept, an idea back from 27 to 22,006. So 2006 time frame. So it's been, you know, uh, was that.

So officially it's 13 years. But we we had the initial concept, an idea back from 27 to 22,006. So 2006 time frame. So it's been, you know, uh, was that.

16 years.

16 years.

16 years or.

16 years or.

So. So were you operating in 2006 or were you conceptualizing?

So. So were you operating in 2006 or were you conceptualizing?

We were conceptualizing what map is now, uh, in 2006 with this idea of this new car bonnet system for the military, we were actually flying from San Diego up to Alaska and sitting on the back of a C-130, screaming at each other about how we could make this system better.

We were conceptualizing what map is now, uh, in 2006 with this idea of this new car bonnet system for the military, we were actually flying from San Diego up to Alaska and sitting on the back of a C-130, screaming at each other about how we could make this system better.

One of my business partners was probably one of the guys flying you. That's really. Yeah, that's.

One of my business partners was probably one of the guys flying you. That's really. Yeah, that's.

What he and he got.

What he and he got.

He got, uh, stationed in, um. Let's see, he was in Iraq and he was in, uh, what was, uh, the first place that Saddam went after and why we went to Kuwait. Yeah. So he was stationed, uh, in Kuwait, did Syria. Uh, so he had multiple missions, but, uh, we didn't even.

He got, uh, stationed in, um. Let's see, he was in Iraq and he was in, uh, what was, uh, the first place that Saddam went after and why we went to Kuwait. Yeah. So he was stationed, uh, in Kuwait, did Syria. Uh, so he had multiple missions, but, uh, we didn't even.

Get a headset.

Get a headset.

Yeah, yeah, we had.

Yeah, yeah, we had.

Earplugs in, and.

Earplugs in, and.

You know, we had softies.

You know, we had softies.

We were literally, like, sitting on the laptop with these pallet systems right in front of us. And just like we just sat here and we have, you know, roughly 30 to 40 guys that we went through training with and we like, failed to make this build this pallet over and over and over again. You know, just putting gear on a pallet, putting a cargo net system together or nets together. And we're like, there's got to be a better way. Like, this is just so stupid that we have, you know, 40 elite operators. And it took us hours to build this thing. And it was like, there's, there's there's got to be a better way. So we sat there for that, uh, eight hour flight up to Alaska and redesign the whole thing on the back of it. And then, uh, then we started training and deploying and, you know, took us years to finally get it to where we made the business start a, uh, inception. The business was, uh, in 2010. And then even at that point, we were still active and serving and deploying. Um, but we knew we needed to protect ourselves as we were going to try to build this, uh, kind of side hustle. And then it wasn't until 2018, 1718, before we left the service and have devoted, you know, 100% of our.

We were literally, like, sitting on the laptop with these pallet systems right in front of us. And just like we just sat here and we have, you know, roughly 30 to 40 guys that we went through training with and we like, failed to make this build this pallet over and over and over again. You know, just putting gear on a pallet, putting a cargo net system together or nets together. And we're like, there's got to be a better way. Like, this is just so stupid that we have, you know, 40 elite operators. And it took us hours to build this thing. And it was like, there's, there's there's got to be a better way. So we sat there for that, uh, eight hour flight up to Alaska and redesign the whole thing on the back of it. And then, uh, then we started training and deploying and, you know, took us years to finally get it to where we made the business start a, uh, inception. The business was, uh, in 2010. And then even at that point, we were still active and serving and deploying. Um, but we knew we needed to protect ourselves as we were going to try to build this, uh, kind of side hustle. And then it wasn't until 2018, 1718, before we left the service and have devoted, you know, 100% of our.

100% of your attention. And, and you guys have built a business now, uh, based on and I think what's amazing is that you guys set around your buddies, you're you're serving together, you're in an intense environment, you know? Um, were you guys deployed together? Uh, we did first war.

100% of your attention. And, and you guys have built a business now, uh, based on and I think what's amazing is that you guys set around your buddies, you're you're serving together, you're in an intense environment, you know? Um, were you guys deployed together? Uh, we did first war.

Yeah, the first deployment was we were actually, uh, co-located for most of it. Um, and, um, actually, before that, I turned over with you on that first. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, so he was out a few months before I was, and then I came in and backfilled him for a few months. Um, and so and then a few months later, we both went to the same location and we were co-located in Baghdad with each other.

Yeah, the first deployment was we were actually, uh, co-located for most of it. Um, and, um, actually, before that, I turned over with you on that first. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, so he was out a few months before I was, and then I came in and backfilled him for a few months. Um, and so and then a few months later, we both went to the same location and we were co-located in Baghdad with each other.

What was that like? Like you guys were buddies before. Did you guys meet in, like, how did you guys become friends? So we were actually.

What was that like? Like you guys were buddies before. Did you guys meet in, like, how did you guys become friends? So we were actually.

Swim buddies and buds. We met at buds. The training for, uh, to become a seal and, uh, became swim buddies and just started.

Swim buddies and buds. We met at buds. The training for, uh, to become a seal and, uh, became swim buddies and just started.

So you met in training? You did? Yeah.

So you met in training? You did? Yeah.

So he went to the Naval Academy. I went to VMI. Uh, so obviously two different schools. He he wrestled. I was a swimmer, so we didn't know each other at all until we got out to out to buds. And I don't even really remember one like the the first like other than obviously being a swim buddy. But I mean, because you start with I think our class started with 140 guys and we graduated 19 of those 140 guys and two of us, these are the two of us.

So he went to the Naval Academy. I went to VMI. Uh, so obviously two different schools. He he wrestled. I was a swimmer, so we didn't know each other at all until we got out to out to buds. And I don't even really remember one like the the first like other than obviously being a swim buddy. But I mean, because you start with I think our class started with 140 guys and we graduated 19 of those 140 guys and two of us, these are the two of us.

So the two crazy guy.

So the two crazy guy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, so I did a tour there, uh, in San Diego, I don't know, six months ago to the whole campus, all the new stuff that they're building. Yeah. Um, and and they were talking about how many guys come in, uh, the resilience and toughness of, of who makes it through. And that at the beginning, when you're looking at 120 guys, if you try to go through and do a lottery of who would or wouldn't make it through, you'd be wrong most of the time. Yeah. And and you think that some guys show up and they're huge and they're strong and they're do you think they're. But they end up being mental giants. Like, they just check out and and and can't make it through. And then you have sometimes little guys show up and you're like, oh man, they're not even able to get through this and you blow through it. So from your experience, what what was that whole experience. Because to come out on the elite side of such a huge stamp, because anybody that can qualify to even show up has to be. Special and summery arts, we agree.

You know, so I did a tour there, uh, in San Diego, I don't know, six months ago to the whole campus, all the new stuff that they're building. Yeah. Um, and and they were talking about how many guys come in, uh, the resilience and toughness of, of who makes it through. And that at the beginning, when you're looking at 120 guys, if you try to go through and do a lottery of who would or wouldn't make it through, you'd be wrong most of the time. Yeah. And and you think that some guys show up and they're huge and they're strong and they're do you think they're. But they end up being mental giants. Like, they just check out and and and can't make it through. And then you have sometimes little guys show up and you're like, oh man, they're not even able to get through this and you blow through it. So from your experience, what what was that whole experience. Because to come out on the elite side of such a huge stamp, because anybody that can qualify to even show up has to be. Special and summery arts, we agree.

Yeah. I mean, I know for me personally, like I never had that. I never had like, oh, I'm gonna quit or like fear of quitting. Like I went into it knowing that my biggest fear was getting hurt or getting injured or, um, not performing and meeting a standard for something. It was never like, oh, what if I quit? Like, I never had that even in my thought, uh, whatsoever. And so, you know, there were times obviously during it and I think most guys that go through it, they always say like they have their like defining moment. And it's like. Where you're really pushed mentally and it's just like, okay, like, I know I can do this, I just don't know how to do it. And then all of a sudden it's like this inner voice that hit you in the head and it was like, oh, yeah, that's so simple. Why wasn't I doing that? And then you just you cruise the rest of the way through, you know, Hell Week or whatever that, like, kind of inner voice, uh, moment was for you.

Yeah. I mean, I know for me personally, like I never had that. I never had like, oh, I'm gonna quit or like fear of quitting. Like I went into it knowing that my biggest fear was getting hurt or getting injured or, um, not performing and meeting a standard for something. It was never like, oh, what if I quit? Like, I never had that even in my thought, uh, whatsoever. And so, you know, there were times obviously during it and I think most guys that go through it, they always say like they have their like defining moment. And it's like. Where you're really pushed mentally and it's just like, okay, like, I know I can do this, I just don't know how to do it. And then all of a sudden it's like this inner voice that hit you in the head and it was like, oh, yeah, that's so simple. Why wasn't I doing that? And then you just you cruise the rest of the way through, you know, Hell Week or whatever that, like, kind of inner voice, uh, moment was for you.

How about you, uh, add.

How about you, uh, add.

To that, uh, people always ask like, oh, what's the secret to buzz? What's the secret to buzz? And I swear to you, it's A.D.D.. And the reason is, is because you can't focus on the pain long enough to quit. It's. Your mind is always just on the next day.

To that, uh, people always ask like, oh, what's the secret to buzz? What's the secret to buzz? And I swear to you, it's A.D.D.. And the reason is, is because you can't focus on the pain long enough to quit. It's. Your mind is always just on the next day.

That's not.

That's not.

Yeah, yeah. Look at. Look at the shiny thing, you know? I mean, so, you know, it sounds ridiculous, but at the same time, it's like, if you're always kind of thinking about what's next or how your buddy is doing or you know, what the next evolution is, or you know how, where's the turnaround point on the run instead of thinking about yourself in the moment? Um, you never stay there present long enough to, you know, think about how bad your knees hurt and how bad your shoulders are. You know, for me, it was my back because I was constantly carrying in.

Yeah, yeah. Look at. Look at the shiny thing, you know? I mean, so, you know, it sounds ridiculous, but at the same time, it's like, if you're always kind of thinking about what's next or how your buddy is doing or you know, what the next evolution is, or you know how, where's the turnaround point on the run instead of thinking about yourself in the moment? Um, you never stay there present long enough to, you know, think about how bad your knees hurt and how bad your shoulders are. You know, for me, it was my back because I was constantly carrying in.

Yeah, I know that.

Yeah, I know that.

He that.

He that.

And this guy carried me around.

And this guy carried me around.

Everywhere. So that's a that's our running. Like whenever we have conference calls and stuff like that, that's the running thing is like who can get that in first and not make it like, you know, like the first thing you see is like, gosh, carrying him like, no, it's like, you know. So you would do this all the time. We always have like, fun games like that where we're just like, oh, you know, like like play like a game or it's like you meet new people and like, like, well, we were travel like, we'd meet like, groups of people and things like that. And they, like, you never tell them what we would do. And so, like, we would just like one person would say what it is and you just have to pick up and play along. So you meet again. Oh yeah, I'm in a game with a lot of places.

Everywhere. So that's a that's our running. Like whenever we have conference calls and stuff like that, that's the running thing is like who can get that in first and not make it like, you know, like the first thing you see is like, gosh, carrying him like, no, it's like, you know. So you would do this all the time. We always have like, fun games like that where we're just like, oh, you know, like like play like a game or it's like you meet new people and like, like, well, we were travel like, we'd meet like, groups of people and things like that. And they, like, you never tell them what we would do. And so, like, we would just like one person would say what it is and you just have to pick up and play along. So you meet again. Oh yeah, I'm in a game with a lot of places.

You were going your your secret.

You were going your your secret.

Right. Well and and more just more just because it just becomes kind of a, um, I don't know, for us it was fun because you are traveling so much like, you know, when you're when you're out and different things. It was more of that, but not necessarily like to like really have like a cover. Um, but also if you did get in trouble, that's, that's not, it's not, you know, they don't look bad on the command or anything like that. So it was easy way to just like, oh, that guy said he was a, you know, a lawyer. It's like, okay. Yeah.

Right. Well and and more just more just because it just becomes kind of a, um, I don't know, for us it was fun because you are traveling so much like, you know, when you're when you're out and different things. It was more of that, but not necessarily like to like really have like a cover. Um, but also if you did get in trouble, that's, that's not, it's not, you know, they don't look bad on the command or anything like that. So it was easy way to just like, oh, that guy said he was a, you know, a lawyer. It's like, okay. Yeah.

So what what's when you think about what it takes to be in that line of work. Right. And that committed and dedicated because you're not just committed, dedicated to yourself. You're on a team. And what you're saying, like you are thinking about, how do I help my team and how do I stay in the game for them? What are some examples? Because when I think of business owners, they don't look at their team members, their employees that way. They look at them like them. And in a lot of cases, oh, me. And then I have my employees, right? And then they get frustrated that they don't have a team. And and I always tell business owners, well, if you don't treat your employees like they're a core component to your team, like you're in the battle of winning in business together. They just don't think that way. And so they get frustrated. Then they talk about their employees. My I can't find good people or it's hard to find anybody who cares like I do. What did you learn in your. Military training and being deployed together and being in the field together, and being in situations where you had to have each other's back. How have you been able to translate that to business?

So what what's when you think about what it takes to be in that line of work. Right. And that committed and dedicated because you're not just committed, dedicated to yourself. You're on a team. And what you're saying, like you are thinking about, how do I help my team and how do I stay in the game for them? What are some examples? Because when I think of business owners, they don't look at their team members, their employees that way. They look at them like them. And in a lot of cases, oh, me. And then I have my employees, right? And then they get frustrated that they don't have a team. And and I always tell business owners, well, if you don't treat your employees like they're a core component to your team, like you're in the battle of winning in business together. They just don't think that way. And so they get frustrated. Then they talk about their employees. My I can't find good people or it's hard to find anybody who cares like I do. What did you learn in your. Military training and being deployed together and being in the field together, and being in situations where you had to have each other's back. How have you been able to translate that to business?

Yeah. You know, so we would always say like you know mission teammates self. Right. Um, and that would apply to everything especially when you get back first up you always take care of, you know, mission essential gear and then help out your teammates and then take care of yourself last. Right. And so the way Sean and I view it is the same way in business. And we always try to take care of our people, you know, and help them. Um, especially when it comes to accomplishing, uh, the goals of the mission of the company. Right. And so we know that if we take care of our people, they're they're going to do the same thing and help us take care of of the company and our goals and everything else. And we also know that a distracted employee is not going to produce the same way as one that knows that we're going to help them through, you know, whatever personal issue or goal they might have, uh, going on in their lives. We help them take care of that, and they're going to put more into the company. So it absolutely translates. Yeah, we.

Yeah. You know, so we would always say like you know mission teammates self. Right. Um, and that would apply to everything especially when you get back first up you always take care of, you know, mission essential gear and then help out your teammates and then take care of yourself last. Right. And so the way Sean and I view it is the same way in business. And we always try to take care of our people, you know, and help them. Um, especially when it comes to accomplishing, uh, the goals of the mission of the company. Right. And so we know that if we take care of our people, they're they're going to do the same thing and help us take care of of the company and our goals and everything else. And we also know that a distracted employee is not going to produce the same way as one that knows that we're going to help them through, you know, whatever personal issue or goal they might have, uh, going on in their lives. We help them take care of that, and they're going to put more into the company. So it absolutely translates. Yeah, we.

Try to we try really hard to.

Try to we try really hard to.

Uh.

Uh.

You know, run it very similar to how we ran our platoons. Right. And it's it's a lot of big boy roles. It's a lot of like, I should not have to sit here and tell you to do certain things, right? Like, I'm expecting you already to do it, because that's why you're hired to do this job. You know, it's like a preacher. Like I don't need to go back and check to make sure every one of his caps are in, in his breach. Like, if it doesn't go off when we're on the mission, like you have an R or after action report, and everyone makes fun of him, and then he puts in a case of beer, and then he's probably going to get beat for something. You know, it's like there's always consequences afterwards there's something that happened. But like they like they're they're constantly wanting to help everybody else grow and everybody else move and and and know that their what they're doing has an impact downrange. So like even you know like our sowers you know, we have we have one of our uh, litters that um, helped rescue a guy in Afghanistan in our warehouse where they. So and it's like it's where they meet around every morning before they start their day to. So they can they're staring right at this ripped, uh, litter. And they know, like, that saved somebody. Like, we get, you know, stuff sent to us. Pretty regularly on stuff was like, that bag was in this mission or hey, this, this was doing on this or this was just on this actually, just recently, one of our, uh, autofocus night vision goggles accessories, uh, we're called the tarsier was just on when, um, Biden was over overseas. Uh, guys were wearing it, you know, people were sending it to us and like, hey, that's your guys's stuff. It's like, yeah, that it is. It's, you know, all these guys are using that stuff.

You know, run it very similar to how we ran our platoons. Right. And it's it's a lot of big boy roles. It's a lot of like, I should not have to sit here and tell you to do certain things, right? Like, I'm expecting you already to do it, because that's why you're hired to do this job. You know, it's like a preacher. Like I don't need to go back and check to make sure every one of his caps are in, in his breach. Like, if it doesn't go off when we're on the mission, like you have an R or after action report, and everyone makes fun of him, and then he puts in a case of beer, and then he's probably going to get beat for something. You know, it's like there's always consequences afterwards there's something that happened. But like they like they're they're constantly wanting to help everybody else grow and everybody else move and and and know that their what they're doing has an impact downrange. So like even you know like our sowers you know, we have we have one of our uh, litters that um, helped rescue a guy in Afghanistan in our warehouse where they. So and it's like it's where they meet around every morning before they start their day to. So they can they're staring right at this ripped, uh, litter. And they know, like, that saved somebody. Like, we get, you know, stuff sent to us. Pretty regularly on stuff was like, that bag was in this mission or hey, this, this was doing on this or this was just on this actually, just recently, one of our, uh, autofocus night vision goggles accessories, uh, we're called the tarsier was just on when, um, Biden was over overseas. Uh, guys were wearing it, you know, people were sending it to us and like, hey, that's your guys's stuff. It's like, yeah, that it is. It's, you know, all these guys are using that stuff.

How good does that feel to be able to innovate technology and solutions that, you know, when you were there, you were like, man, I wish I had something better. I wish I could.

How good does that feel to be able to innovate technology and solutions that, you know, when you were there, you were like, man, I wish I had something better. I wish I could.

You know, that's where all like the stretchers. So we we build the lightest weight stretchers on the market for, for, you know, operators because hiking up 12,000ft in Afghanistan with a £12 stretcher that is only a stretcher and doesn't do anything else, you you very quickly realize you wish you had something else.

You know, that's where all like the stretchers. So we we build the lightest weight stretchers on the market for, for, you know, operators because hiking up 12,000ft in Afghanistan with a £12 stretcher that is only a stretcher and doesn't do anything else, you you very quickly realize you wish you had something else.

And so so you guys fabricated an innovative stretcher, correct?

And so so you guys fabricated an innovative stretcher, correct?

Yeah. Actually, uh, four, four different options. Yeah. For, uh, for the guys to, to choose from, depending on the mission, the requirements, what could possibly go wrong, all those types of things.

Yeah. Actually, uh, four, four different options. Yeah. For, uh, for the guys to, to choose from, depending on the mission, the requirements, what could possibly go wrong, all those types of things.

And then we made it so that it all worked together. Right. So it's not four individual letters. They, they while if you look at it from you know it's for individual products, but if you have the poles the poles can go with everything. There's certain things that go with it. So now the operator can have a 7.5ft ladder. He can have a litter. Got it. So a bunch of things. So it's a Swiss Army knife where you spread load gear or spread load, uh, that gear across the platoon or, you know, troop size or whatever. And then, um, as you need certain parts and pieces, you can almost like build it real quick and then roll out.

And then we made it so that it all worked together. Right. So it's not four individual letters. They, they while if you look at it from you know it's for individual products, but if you have the poles the poles can go with everything. There's certain things that go with it. So now the operator can have a 7.5ft ladder. He can have a litter. Got it. So a bunch of things. So it's a Swiss Army knife where you spread load gear or spread load, uh, that gear across the platoon or, you know, troop size or whatever. And then, um, as you need certain parts and pieces, you can almost like build it real quick and then roll out.

That's that. That's cool. So you can almost like it could be a stretcher or hammock, like you could like you can take things and make it whatever you. Exactly.

That's that. That's cool. So you can almost like it could be a stretcher or hammock, like you could like you can take things and make it whatever you. Exactly.

Uh, the biggest one, the one that, uh, was one of our first ones, is actually a bag that you use for collecting SS census exploitation. So we'd go in on target, grab all the computers, documents and everything else like that. We put it into this big, basically duffel bag, uh, big grocery bag or whatever. And so we made it so that it unzips down on the, the side and bottom, and then it opens up to a soft stretcher, and then you can put the poles in it, and then those poles can be put into a ladder. And so it makes it modular. But then saves.

Uh, the biggest one, the one that, uh, was one of our first ones, is actually a bag that you use for collecting SS census exploitation. So we'd go in on target, grab all the computers, documents and everything else like that. We put it into this big, basically duffel bag, uh, big grocery bag or whatever. And so we made it so that it unzips down on the, the side and bottom, and then it opens up to a soft stretcher, and then you can put the poles in it, and then those poles can be put into a ladder. And so it makes it modular. But then saves.

Weight, and the whole system weighs less than a single structure that we were using before.

Weight, and the whole system weighs less than a single structure that we were using before.

So. So you guys are literally out. Climbing 12,000.

So. So you guys are literally out. Climbing 12,000.

Feet.

Feet.

Mountains. I mean, I can't even fathom the how shitty some of this situational positioning or whatever you call it would be. But you're doing that and you're thinking, God damn, I wish somebody would invent this thing. And then you're like, drawing it up on paper. And that's the thing, is.

Mountains. I mean, I can't even fathom the how shitty some of this situational positioning or whatever you call it would be. But you're doing that and you're thinking, God damn, I wish somebody would invent this thing. And then you're like, drawing it up on paper. And that's the thing, is.

Every piece of equipment we ever got you, you would take it and cut it apart and resell it and, you know, change it in some way. And every guy in the platoon does it, and every guy does it a little bit different just for his needs and requirements. Right. Because the breacher wants something different than the sniper wants something different than the platoon leader. Right. And just because of what their mission requirements are. And so we were like, man, why, why don't we just make this better from the get go?

Every piece of equipment we ever got you, you would take it and cut it apart and resell it and, you know, change it in some way. And every guy in the platoon does it, and every guy does it a little bit different just for his needs and requirements. Right. Because the breacher wants something different than the sniper wants something different than the platoon leader. Right. And just because of what their mission requirements are. And so we were like, man, why, why don't we just make this better from the get go?

Talking about like the that it's called the stealth, the soft lift system. So that bag right there actually was on an op when I was in Iraq. Um, we had to one of our partner force guys got shot and we had to carry him or get him to the medevac helo in a chain link fence and some rugs that we took from another house. And so, like, we took this, picked him up. And because we didn't have a litter, because there was only on this particular OP, there was a very limited number of Americans on it and a higher number of, um, partner force guys. And they weren't carrying our litter for us, so we didn't have the back space to do it. And so we went without it because it's one of those things. It's like, I would much rather have a £20 radio than a litter. At least I could make communications with guys. And, and other guys were carrying breech equipment and other stuff, so there just wasn't space. And um, carried the guy got him to medevac helicopter. And then, uh, on the flight home, I'm sitting here thinking like, all right, we already carry this bag, sx bag. And I was like, wow, how can you make that into a stretcher? And I was like, oh, well, this and this and literally called that like an hour later. And I was like, got on the ground. I was like, I got another idea for us. And I was like, oh, if we propose that we do this, and then it just like snowballed and and that's just, you know, it, one thing leads to another very quickly. It's just like, uh, I think he and I compliment each other very well on a lot of that.

Talking about like the that it's called the stealth, the soft lift system. So that bag right there actually was on an op when I was in Iraq. Um, we had to one of our partner force guys got shot and we had to carry him or get him to the medevac helo in a chain link fence and some rugs that we took from another house. And so, like, we took this, picked him up. And because we didn't have a litter, because there was only on this particular OP, there was a very limited number of Americans on it and a higher number of, um, partner force guys. And they weren't carrying our litter for us, so we didn't have the back space to do it. And so we went without it because it's one of those things. It's like, I would much rather have a £20 radio than a litter. At least I could make communications with guys. And, and other guys were carrying breech equipment and other stuff, so there just wasn't space. And um, carried the guy got him to medevac helicopter. And then, uh, on the flight home, I'm sitting here thinking like, all right, we already carry this bag, sx bag. And I was like, wow, how can you make that into a stretcher? And I was like, oh, well, this and this and literally called that like an hour later. And I was like, got on the ground. I was like, I got another idea for us. And I was like, oh, if we propose that we do this, and then it just like snowballed and and that's just, you know, it, one thing leads to another very quickly. It's just like, uh, I think he and I compliment each other very well on a lot of that.

So what do you think? Uh, with the training of, like, what you just described. So you're you're you're in a situation. You have to make the gear to get your teammate medevac out. So you're grabbing anything you can carry.

So what do you think? Uh, with the training of, like, what you just described. So you're you're you're in a situation. You have to make the gear to get your teammate medevac out. So you're grabbing anything you can carry.

Him on.

Him on.

Self making your stretcher. Right. From what I heard you say, you grabbed a chain link fence, threw some carpets on it, put them on it, carried him to the.

Self making your stretcher. Right. From what I heard you say, you grabbed a chain link fence, threw some carpets on it, put them on it, carried him to the.

Well and that that's I mean that was everybody in the Seal teams. I mean like everyone from the junior guy to the most senior guy in your platoon. And that's what was always like, you'll never you'll never have an organization like that, ever, where it's just like every single person is running on, you know? JPA. You know, gasoline, caffeine and heat. But there are problem solvers and it's like, hey, this sucks. And it's like immediately when someone says that you got 13, 14, you know, 18 guys sitting there immediately saying, here's how we make it better, right? And they immediately like go into like solving how we get out of this up. And it might be a guy eating a cow patty. And all of a sudden now everyone's laughing because this is like, that's funny. Why did you do that? It's like everyone just looked like they were having a horrible time. So I figured eating, you know, cow shit was going to be the thing that make us, you know?

Well and that that's I mean that was everybody in the Seal teams. I mean like everyone from the junior guy to the most senior guy in your platoon. And that's what was always like, you'll never you'll never have an organization like that, ever, where it's just like every single person is running on, you know? JPA. You know, gasoline, caffeine and heat. But there are problem solvers and it's like, hey, this sucks. And it's like immediately when someone says that you got 13, 14, you know, 18 guys sitting there immediately saying, here's how we make it better, right? And they immediately like go into like solving how we get out of this up. And it might be a guy eating a cow patty. And all of a sudden now everyone's laughing because this is like, that's funny. Why did you do that? It's like everyone just looked like they were having a horrible time. So I figured eating, you know, cow shit was going to be the thing that make us, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like. But yeah, I mean, you do. It's just guys, like, everybody feeds off of everybody else's energy in there and constantly. I mean, it's just a like, you know, he was talking earlier when a guy would get a new piece of kit and he's completely disassembling it and doing different things, but that every everybody would be like a second. All right, I got to do this. Yeah, I'm gonna do this too. And then they make their make it their.

Like. But yeah, I mean, you do. It's just guys, like, everybody feeds off of everybody else's energy in there and constantly. I mean, it's just a like, you know, he was talking earlier when a guy would get a new piece of kit and he's completely disassembling it and doing different things, but that every everybody would be like a second. All right, I got to do this. Yeah, I'm gonna do this too. And then they make their make it their.

Companies learning from each other. You know. And you know, it's what's interesting is, is when we sit and talk about how you had these thoughts based on because a mentor told me, uh, when I was like 26 or 27, hey, whenever you use something that you're in love with, because I remember when the Nokia phone came out and I was just, like, blown away. It was like Star Trek and and I can't believe this little phone. And he's like, anytime you fall in love with something, go buy some of the stock of that company, because the best investments are things you personally love using, because then you have a personal user experience. And when you think about where great innovations come from in business, it's from people that are trying to make things that are old better, right? And for you guys to be out there risking your life basically every day for America and for your partners and for your teammates, um, and at the same time, you're having all these entrepreneurial ideas. Like, shot at you. Like, if we had this.

Companies learning from each other. You know. And you know, it's what's interesting is, is when we sit and talk about how you had these thoughts based on because a mentor told me, uh, when I was like 26 or 27, hey, whenever you use something that you're in love with, because I remember when the Nokia phone came out and I was just, like, blown away. It was like Star Trek and and I can't believe this little phone. And he's like, anytime you fall in love with something, go buy some of the stock of that company, because the best investments are things you personally love using, because then you have a personal user experience. And when you think about where great innovations come from in business, it's from people that are trying to make things that are old better, right? And for you guys to be out there risking your life basically every day for America and for your partners and for your teammates, um, and at the same time, you're having all these entrepreneurial ideas. Like, shot at you. Like, if we had this.

Thing.

Thing.

Right and made things a lot easier. And so you come home and you, you start building a business and now you're innovating a lot of those concepts. And I don't know if you want to say how large your business is. Uh, but if you're comfortable saying it, it's tens of millions, right?

Right and made things a lot easier. And so you come home and you, you start building a business and now you're innovating a lot of those concepts. And I don't know if you want to say how large your business is. Uh, but if you're comfortable saying it, it's tens of millions, right?

Yeah. We so last year we did just under 14 million, $14 million, the biggest one. And being Matt Buck, the other operating company that we've got as a supplement company as well. So those two combined did about 14.

Yeah. We so last year we did just under 14 million, $14 million, the biggest one. And being Matt Buck, the other operating company that we've got as a supplement company as well. So those two combined did about 14.

Million, 14 million. So you've taken these ideas, you've converted them to actual workable products. And and now you're selling those products and you have some big, big ones. You've been working on that. If they come to fruition or come out the way you believe they're going to come out in very short order. Could be hundreds of hundreds. Yeah.

Million, 14 million. So you've taken these ideas, you've converted them to actual workable products. And and now you're selling those products and you have some big, big ones. You've been working on that. If they come to fruition or come out the way you believe they're going to come out in very short order. Could be hundreds of hundreds. Yeah.

There's there's a like you know, we're sitting right now, there's close to $200 million between now and, you know, 18 months from now of deals where we know it's us or 1 or 2 other companies.

There's there's a like you know, we're sitting right now, there's close to $200 million between now and, you know, 18 months from now of deals where we know it's us or 1 or 2 other companies.

So this is what I love about this show building billions because it's it's it's it's documenting people that are on the path. Of taking their ideas, taking their concepts, having the resilience to stick with it. It's not been easy. It's not, you know, not enough. That's part of the.

So this is what I love about this show building billions because it's it's it's it's documenting people that are on the path. Of taking their ideas, taking their concepts, having the resilience to stick with it. It's not been easy. It's not, you know, not enough. That's part of the.

Reason why we, you know, get into the the 360.

Reason why we, you know, get into the the 360.

Yeah. So talk about this. So you came to my two day program that helps business owners curate where their strengths are, where their weaknesses are, where there's opportunities in the businesses and where the main threats are to the business. And so you're on the second day of that program, what's what's been some of the, the, the things that you guys have realized.

Yeah. So talk about this. So you came to my two day program that helps business owners curate where their strengths are, where their weaknesses are, where there's opportunities in the businesses and where the main threats are to the business. And so you're on the second day of that program, what's what's been some of the, the, the things that you guys have realized.

I think the biggest thing is, is just how inefficient we have been doing it. Like we knew going into business we could grow to be $1 billion company, right? Like when we know that we can get there, we know it's going to be hard and like we'll figure it out. But after seeing a lot of the things, it's just like, man, we could do this so much easier. And even Texas. And I was like, man, I really wish we would have done this three years ago because it would have saved us a lot of, you know, scraped knees, long nights, you know, just stress and ups and downs and, and having that, that pathway. Right. Like that efficiency part of it which. Like I said, we knew we could get there, but this is going to help it make it go so much more efficient.

I think the biggest thing is, is just how inefficient we have been doing it. Like we knew going into business we could grow to be $1 billion company, right? Like when we know that we can get there, we know it's going to be hard and like we'll figure it out. But after seeing a lot of the things, it's just like, man, we could do this so much easier. And even Texas. And I was like, man, I really wish we would have done this three years ago because it would have saved us a lot of, you know, scraped knees, long nights, you know, just stress and ups and downs and, and having that, that pathway. Right. Like that efficiency part of it which. Like I said, we knew we could get there, but this is going to help it make it go so much more efficient.

And I was talking to Heather last night. I told her, like the program that has been put together is comparable to the Art of War by Sun Tzu, right? If you have read the Art of War, um. It all seems very common sense and easy, um, and gives you a pathway to be successful on the battlefield. Right. And so and that's the way that I look at even just the workbook from the 316 program, is that it's written very simply and easy to understand. It gives you a direct pathway to be successful. All you have to do is implement it. Right. And and it's you know, we always talk about the basics. Um, and that could be from, you know, pistol shooting to rifle shooting to patrolling to whatever. There's a very simple set of rules for all of those things. And you can be extremely proficient and expert level if you just follow those basics. And that's, you know, what I've got out of the last couple of days is understanding what those rules are. And you will get the result. Um, you know, so that's why we're we're pretty excited to get back and start implementing a lot of these things. And, um, you know, just doing very basic things very, very well. And that's what the top, you know, assault teams do in the world. They don't do anything special when you look at like Seal Team six or, you know, uh, the German KSK or anything like that, it's it's the basics. They do the basics right? Every single time without fail. And that's all it is.

And I was talking to Heather last night. I told her, like the program that has been put together is comparable to the Art of War by Sun Tzu, right? If you have read the Art of War, um. It all seems very common sense and easy, um, and gives you a pathway to be successful on the battlefield. Right. And so and that's the way that I look at even just the workbook from the 316 program, is that it's written very simply and easy to understand. It gives you a direct pathway to be successful. All you have to do is implement it. Right. And and it's you know, we always talk about the basics. Um, and that could be from, you know, pistol shooting to rifle shooting to patrolling to whatever. There's a very simple set of rules for all of those things. And you can be extremely proficient and expert level if you just follow those basics. And that's, you know, what I've got out of the last couple of days is understanding what those rules are. And you will get the result. Um, you know, so that's why we're we're pretty excited to get back and start implementing a lot of these things. And, um, you know, just doing very basic things very, very well. And that's what the top, you know, assault teams do in the world. They don't do anything special when you look at like Seal Team six or, you know, uh, the German KSK or anything like that, it's it's the basics. They do the basics right? Every single time without fail. And that's all it is.

They go from being an amateur to a professional because they, they know how to make it. You know, they know how to make that perfect, the basics.

They go from being an amateur to a professional because they, they know how to make it. You know, they know how to make that perfect, the basics.

And none of those organizations that you just mentioned or your teams would be any good if there was, if it was all about the individual only. Right? If they don't function. What makes them remarkable is the teamwork. The teamwork.

And none of those organizations that you just mentioned or your teams would be any good if there was, if it was all about the individual only. Right? If they don't function. What makes them remarkable is the teamwork. The teamwork.

Yeah. It's like, you know, the hardest part for the transition. I know for me and I know, I know Zach, but I'll let him tell his. But like, you know and when you're, when you're on it and you're going and you're just, you're grinding every day with the team and you're, you're, you know, you're on the text threads, you're doing all this stuff. And it's like they always got like, talk about being on the train, right? You're on this train with everybody, you're riding it and it's so much fun. And it's just like every but you're gone, you know, 200, 300 days out of the year and you're, you're out there a lot of places, sometimes working crazy hours. And you know that that brotherhood that gets formed with those guys is like a bond that can never be broken. And then the day you say, hey, I'm, I'm I'm done, I'm getting off the train, it literally stops. Like, there's no more text messages with the guys. There's nothing but that train keeps going. And so initially it's just like, well, this sucks. Like you feel like lonely. You feel a lot of like like not. I wouldn't say betrayal, but like, man, I thought we were buddies. Like, you know what happened? And there are brotherhood and there's, there's the brotherhood in the teams, and then there's a brotherhood out of the teams. And that's where guys have such a hard time finding that there is life after the teams or service or other things like that, but you just have to also plug yourself into that brotherhood. That's, hey, I'm no longer in the team anymore, which is good because that train has to keep going. That train has to keep going after the enemy. Like they don't need to be hearing about how, you know, you're trying to grow a business to $1 billion. So they they don't care, right? Like they're happy for you. They want to help support you in that. But they're.

Yeah. It's like, you know, the hardest part for the transition. I know for me and I know, I know Zach, but I'll let him tell his. But like, you know and when you're, when you're on it and you're going and you're just, you're grinding every day with the team and you're, you're, you know, you're on the text threads, you're doing all this stuff. And it's like they always got like, talk about being on the train, right? You're on this train with everybody, you're riding it and it's so much fun. And it's just like every but you're gone, you know, 200, 300 days out of the year and you're, you're out there a lot of places, sometimes working crazy hours. And you know that that brotherhood that gets formed with those guys is like a bond that can never be broken. And then the day you say, hey, I'm, I'm I'm done, I'm getting off the train, it literally stops. Like, there's no more text messages with the guys. There's nothing but that train keeps going. And so initially it's just like, well, this sucks. Like you feel like lonely. You feel a lot of like like not. I wouldn't say betrayal, but like, man, I thought we were buddies. Like, you know what happened? And there are brotherhood and there's, there's the brotherhood in the teams, and then there's a brotherhood out of the teams. And that's where guys have such a hard time finding that there is life after the teams or service or other things like that, but you just have to also plug yourself into that brotherhood. That's, hey, I'm no longer in the team anymore, which is good because that train has to keep going. That train has to keep going after the enemy. Like they don't need to be hearing about how, you know, you're trying to grow a business to $1 billion. So they they don't care, right? Like they're happy for you. They want to help support you in that. But they're.

Trying to survive.

Trying to survive.

There. Yeah. They're dealing with a whole plethora of other things that they need to be focused on and dealing with because it's their life. Right? Yeah. And so that that is hard for guys I think.

There. Yeah. They're dealing with a whole plethora of other things that they need to be focused on and dealing with because it's their life. Right? Yeah. And so that that is hard for guys I think.

Yeah. That's been the gift of what we do now is being able to plug back in to not only, you know, the Seal teams, but also all the different special operations branches and the conventional units and our international partners or um, and develop these technologies for them, you know, and get to go visit them and understand their problem sets and what they're trying to overcome in the current fight. Right. Because we haven't I haven't been in Iraq since 20. 16. Right. Do you come out of theater for 6 to 8 weeks? You are no longer relevant. You do not have a good operational picture of what's going on over there. Right. And so that fast, that fast.

Yeah. That's been the gift of what we do now is being able to plug back in to not only, you know, the Seal teams, but also all the different special operations branches and the conventional units and our international partners or um, and develop these technologies for them, you know, and get to go visit them and understand their problem sets and what they're trying to overcome in the current fight. Right. Because we haven't I haven't been in Iraq since 20. 16. Right. Do you come out of theater for 6 to 8 weeks? You are no longer relevant. You do not have a good operational picture of what's going on over there. Right. And so that fast, that fast.

Change happens in media.

Change happens in media.

And when you look at the current fight, right, there wasn't a drone in the battlespace besides our own assets. Um, and now that battlespace in Ukraine is completely different, right. And it brings a whole new set of problems and a whole new set of requirements and a whole new set of how you do those, those missions. And so being able to, you know, plug back into these guys and understand what their their needs are, what their issues are. It allows us to go and develop technology that assist them to increase their lethality, increase their survivability, all those things that they need to do.

And when you look at the current fight, right, there wasn't a drone in the battlespace besides our own assets. Um, and now that battlespace in Ukraine is completely different, right. And it brings a whole new set of problems and a whole new set of requirements and a whole new set of how you do those, those missions. And so being able to, you know, plug back into these guys and understand what their their needs are, what their issues are. It allows us to go and develop technology that assist them to increase their lethality, increase their survivability, all those things that they need to do.

When you guys when you guys think about how you were I mean, 2016 doesn't seem like that long ago because I just sold my business in 2016. And you think about how you were fighting the good fight with the resources and assets you you guys had then. And then you see things like what's going on in Ukraine, where, where people were taking in home, making drones and putting grenades on them. And you're just kind of thinking you're fine wherever you're at and without any anybody now can be a drone master assassin. When you think about, like, what those guys have to think about because it's like, how do you predict it?

When you guys when you guys think about how you were I mean, 2016 doesn't seem like that long ago because I just sold my business in 2016. And you think about how you were fighting the good fight with the resources and assets you you guys had then. And then you see things like what's going on in Ukraine, where, where people were taking in home, making drones and putting grenades on them. And you're just kind of thinking you're fine wherever you're at and without any anybody now can be a drone master assassin. When you think about, like, what those guys have to think about because it's like, how do you predict it?

And yeah, I mean, it's very hard until you see it. Right? And, you know, you talk about these big inflection points in war in the history of war, right, tanks in World War One. And then, you know, seeing actually tanks being used with infantry correctly in World War two and the, the introduction of the airplane to combat and, and being used for not only reconnaissance but, you know, offensive operations, um, all of these things just it's hard to even imagine it until you see it. Right. It takes, you know, visionaries to be able to concepts what that next fight is going to look like. Um, but then you have a whole host of opportunities behind that. Right? There's a good friend of mine works for an Australian company called Drone Shield, and they can not only detect but also interrupt those links in the drones, especially the homemade ones and, you know, off the shelf ones. Not really like military. Well, we consider like military grade. Um, but they can, you know, drop those or interrupt the link and that drone goes back to its home. Right. So yeah.

And yeah, I mean, it's very hard until you see it. Right? And, you know, you talk about these big inflection points in war in the history of war, right, tanks in World War One. And then, you know, seeing actually tanks being used with infantry correctly in World War two and the, the introduction of the airplane to combat and, and being used for not only reconnaissance but, you know, offensive operations, um, all of these things just it's hard to even imagine it until you see it. Right. It takes, you know, visionaries to be able to concepts what that next fight is going to look like. Um, but then you have a whole host of opportunities behind that. Right? There's a good friend of mine works for an Australian company called Drone Shield, and they can not only detect but also interrupt those links in the drones, especially the homemade ones and, you know, off the shelf ones. Not really like military. Well, we consider like military grade. Um, but they can, you know, drop those or interrupt the link and that drone goes back to its home. Right. So yeah.

You think you think, you know, how far out are we before a thousand drone micro drones are flying around the size of a hornet that are shooting a laser beam, like, like like anything could come come out. Absolutely. And and that's what you're saying about the innovation of the battle space. Is that it? Like. But I didn't think about the fact that if you if you're in the heat of the battle, say, Iraq, and you leave for eight weeks because when you would come home. And then go back for for either finishing your deployment or redeployment. What was usually that time period that you were out of theater and then back in?

You think you think, you know, how far out are we before a thousand drone micro drones are flying around the size of a hornet that are shooting a laser beam, like, like like anything could come come out. Absolutely. And and that's what you're saying about the innovation of the battle space. Is that it? Like. But I didn't think about the fact that if you if you're in the heat of the battle, say, Iraq, and you leave for eight weeks because when you would come home. And then go back for for either finishing your deployment or redeployment. What was usually that time period that you were out of theater and then back in?

Uh, it depends. And it depends on a view. But generally speaking, it's about a year. So like you're out because you'd go for six months, right? And then you're essentially out for about a year and then you're back into it. Um, and again, depends on what unit and kind of the cycle. Sometimes it could be a year and a half depending on the, the place you're at. Um, but, um, you know, you're constantly you're on obviously set reps, you're on um, like zoom calls essentially with the guys downrange, you're constantly getting updates. But um, you also a lot of times have no idea when you come back where you're going next because they try to rotate platoons around or, uh, platoon gets disassembled for like, leadership has to move out and new guys come in. And so some of that, um, affects where you get deployed to inevitably. And especially when we were in, you know, they were covering down on, you know, everything from South Africa stuff to, uh, you know, stuff in Europe, Africa, you know, Afghanistan, Iraq. So there's a lot of, uh, the pie, all these different areas of interest that, you know, platoons are getting shipped to. And so you have no idea. Sometimes it's like they they, they wouldn't tell you until, you know, three months out where you were going. And even then it changes the last minute.

Uh, it depends. And it depends on a view. But generally speaking, it's about a year. So like you're out because you'd go for six months, right? And then you're essentially out for about a year and then you're back into it. Um, and again, depends on what unit and kind of the cycle. Sometimes it could be a year and a half depending on the, the place you're at. Um, but, um, you know, you're constantly you're on obviously set reps, you're on um, like zoom calls essentially with the guys downrange, you're constantly getting updates. But um, you also a lot of times have no idea when you come back where you're going next because they try to rotate platoons around or, uh, platoon gets disassembled for like, leadership has to move out and new guys come in. And so some of that, um, affects where you get deployed to inevitably. And especially when we were in, you know, they were covering down on, you know, everything from South Africa stuff to, uh, you know, stuff in Europe, Africa, you know, Afghanistan, Iraq. So there's a lot of, uh, the pie, all these different areas of interest that, you know, platoons are getting shipped to. And so you have no idea. Sometimes it's like they they, they wouldn't tell you until, you know, three months out where you were going. And even then it changes the last minute.

So what two questions of all the different deployments, what was your absolute favorite place that you were deployed to?

So what two questions of all the different deployments, what was your absolute favorite place that you were deployed to?

For me, it was Baghdad. Uh, one of my deployments, um, being able to be part of, um, a couple of units that we got to do and we got to travel all south to north, basically hit any Shia, Sunni, anything we had, we had. Free rein. Uh, I say free rein. Everything was approved at prime time. I know the rules. And everything was approved at the Prime Minister level and at, like, the four star. So Prime minister and four star level. I mean, like, we were going after some really bad guys on both Shia and Sunni side. And so that was by far my favorite.

For me, it was Baghdad. Uh, one of my deployments, um, being able to be part of, um, a couple of units that we got to do and we got to travel all south to north, basically hit any Shia, Sunni, anything we had, we had. Free rein. Uh, I say free rein. Everything was approved at prime time. I know the rules. And everything was approved at the Prime Minister level and at, like, the four star. So Prime minister and four star level. I mean, like, we were going after some really bad guys on both Shia and Sunni side. And so that was by far my favorite.

Basically, you guys were how long were you out just exploring and finding.

Basically, you guys were how long were you out just exploring and finding.

And that was that was a deployment for six months.

And that was that was a deployment for six months.

So you literally you and your team, just wherever you went, you went.

So you literally you and your team, just wherever you went, you went.

We we would fly, we would drive. I mean, we got to go. Like I said, everywhere we were hunting, like I said, you know, all the way down from Basra, up to Mosul, out to, you know, uh, Nasiriyah. I mean, we were all over that country getting to go after targets. And it was it was a lot of fun because it was constantly going after the highest level guys. Yeah.

We we would fly, we would drive. I mean, we got to go. Like I said, everywhere we were hunting, like I said, you know, all the way down from Basra, up to Mosul, out to, you know, uh, Nasiriyah. I mean, we were all over that country getting to go after targets. And it was it was a lot of fun because it was constantly going after the highest level guys. Yeah.

No, there's a lot of it was also miserable. And we're not.

No, there's a lot of it was also miserable. And we're not.

You guys aren't doing that.

You guys aren't doing that.

We were we were on sister forces. Yeah. So one night they would go out. The next night we would go out. Yeah. Um, because it was such a high up tempo.

We were we were on sister forces. Yeah. So one night they would go out. The next night we would go out. Yeah. Um, because it was such a high up tempo.

Uh, some nights we would both be out.

Uh, some nights we would both be out.

We both be out. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, we as close as I've ever been. Yeah. Was I, we were somewhere south of Baghdad, just sitting in a ditch waiting for this guy to roll through, and we were going to ambush him, and it was filled with water. Oh, God. January. I just sat there, just. Just shivering all night like.

We both be out. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, we as close as I've ever been. Yeah. Was I, we were somewhere south of Baghdad, just sitting in a ditch waiting for this guy to roll through, and we were going to ambush him, and it was filled with water. Oh, God. January. I just sat there, just. Just shivering all night like.

We got everything through it. God never.

We got everything through it. God never.

Came through. And we just got up and got back on the. We also got the fight with some of our local Iraqi police because we didn't tell them we were coming. It was a mess.

Came through. And we just got up and got back on the. We also got the fight with some of our local Iraqi police because we didn't tell them we were coming. It was a mess.

But, uh, I actually just told this, uh, my this story to my grandmother a couple days ago, uh, actually, before coming up, uh, down here, um, kind of all that same thing that I had with us, we had we were getting on to, uh, uh, mi 17 helicopters. So they're like a Russian looking helicopter, and they have a ramp, and, uh, we're we're like, walking in line by line. And I keep looking over at him because he was the last guy, uh, on on that chalk, and I was the last guy on our chalk. And so, like, I just kept looking back and looking over and then, like, I'm getting close to, you know, getting ready to get on the helicopter. I look over and I don't see him, but I see other guys in front of him. I was like, where did where did he go? And then like, I'm like, still looking over, still looking over. And like 45 seconds later I see this guy coming out of the ground and I was like, oh, that's weird. And then, you know, they get in the helicopter, don't think much of it. We fly back. It was like a like a two hour flight back up to Baghdad. And, um, he gets on the ground and we're all high fiving and everything like that. And I just see this like. Anger in his face because he's jackhammering. He fell into a shithole. Are all the way up to his neck and. And we're all, like, laughing and joking. And he's just like. That was miserable. He flew back.

But, uh, I actually just told this, uh, my this story to my grandmother a couple days ago, uh, actually, before coming up, uh, down here, um, kind of all that same thing that I had with us, we had we were getting on to, uh, uh, mi 17 helicopters. So they're like a Russian looking helicopter, and they have a ramp, and, uh, we're we're like, walking in line by line. And I keep looking over at him because he was the last guy, uh, on on that chalk, and I was the last guy on our chalk. And so, like, I just kept looking back and looking over and then, like, I'm getting close to, you know, getting ready to get on the helicopter. I look over and I don't see him, but I see other guys in front of him. I was like, where did where did he go? And then like, I'm like, still looking over, still looking over. And like 45 seconds later I see this guy coming out of the ground and I was like, oh, that's weird. And then, you know, they get in the helicopter, don't think much of it. We fly back. It was like a like a two hour flight back up to Baghdad. And, um, he gets on the ground and we're all high fiving and everything like that. And I just see this like. Anger in his face because he's jackhammering. He fell into a shithole. Are all the way up to his neck and. And we're all, like, laughing and joking. And he's just like. That was miserable. He flew back.

With.

With.

Just covered in shit and was freezing because he was right by the door because nobody wanted to be around him. And he spent that next morning cleaning every piece of his gear out. And he was just like, like a corpsman was giving him shots. And it was just like, dude, like, I feel so bad. No, it wasn't. It was the year. It was our Jack. It wasn't him. Uh oh. Yeah. But yeah, it was like that. And and everybody was making fun of like, all, all the Americans like. Oh, dude. What? No no no no no. He's like, you're gonna fall into a shit hole tonight. And he's just like, fuck you.

Just covered in shit and was freezing because he was right by the door because nobody wanted to be around him. And he spent that next morning cleaning every piece of his gear out. And he was just like, like a corpsman was giving him shots. And it was just like, dude, like, I feel so bad. No, it wasn't. It was the year. It was our Jack. It wasn't him. Uh oh. Yeah. But yeah, it was like that. And and everybody was making fun of like, all, all the Americans like. Oh, dude. What? No no no no no. He's like, you're gonna fall into a shit hole tonight. And he's just like, fuck you.

Uh oh my gosh, the things that happened. So Iraq, both to you, Iraq and then where else where you guys.

Uh oh my gosh, the things that happened. So Iraq, both to you, Iraq and then where else where you guys.

I did Afghanistan.

I did Afghanistan.

I did, so I did, uh, three to Iraq and then two to Africa. Uh, I was in Chad one time and then Nigeria another time. So.

I did, so I did, uh, three to Iraq and then two to Africa. Uh, I was in Chad one time and then Nigeria another time. So.

And what did you think about Chad and Nigeria, that whole Africa experience?

And what did you think about Chad and Nigeria, that whole Africa experience?

Uh, wow. Uh, completely different, you know, because like, you go from Iraq, where it's very fast tempo, a lot of things going on, you're going out, you know, like we were talking I mean, almost every night, sometimes every other night. Uh, and then you go to, you know, a country like Nigeria and you might go on like one patrol that whole six months. And so trying to keep the guys focused, um, you know, there was potentials for stuff. Um, but honestly, it was sketchier in a lot of ways because you're out there by yourself, there's no support system whatsoever. There's no, like, if we got shot or one of our guys got shot in something or a partner force turns on us like there's no, uh, medical station that's going to come in and fly in and help us or, you know, like the stuff that happened in Sudan or some of the stuff that even happened in a Chad, uh, you know, where, like, the country turns on quick and all of a sudden, like, these guys are leaving, like, that happens pretty quickly. And there was there's, you know, rebels or whatever fighting or, uh, Boko Haram or whoever. And so it was always like, sketchy when you're like. Walking around town because you have freedom to walk around town, to go eat local restaurants in these in these countries. And you're just like, I don't know, for me doing this right now, but it's either that or sit in a hotel and then or go straight to the base and back to the hotel, and you're doing that for six months. So sometimes it's like, I really just need to get out and walk at least.

Uh, wow. Uh, completely different, you know, because like, you go from Iraq, where it's very fast tempo, a lot of things going on, you're going out, you know, like we were talking I mean, almost every night, sometimes every other night. Uh, and then you go to, you know, a country like Nigeria and you might go on like one patrol that whole six months. And so trying to keep the guys focused, um, you know, there was potentials for stuff. Um, but honestly, it was sketchier in a lot of ways because you're out there by yourself, there's no support system whatsoever. There's no, like, if we got shot or one of our guys got shot in something or a partner force turns on us like there's no, uh, medical station that's going to come in and fly in and help us or, you know, like the stuff that happened in Sudan or some of the stuff that even happened in a Chad, uh, you know, where, like, the country turns on quick and all of a sudden, like, these guys are leaving, like, that happens pretty quickly. And there was there's, you know, rebels or whatever fighting or, uh, Boko Haram or whoever. And so it was always like, sketchy when you're like. Walking around town because you have freedom to walk around town, to go eat local restaurants in these in these countries. And you're just like, I don't know, for me doing this right now, but it's either that or sit in a hotel and then or go straight to the base and back to the hotel, and you're doing that for six months. So sometimes it's like, I really just need to get out and walk at least.

So. So at least when you're in Iraq or Afghanistan, you have the thought in your mind that your attention level, because you know that there's threats everywhere, right? Right. Hostile. It's hostile everywhere here. You don't know if some of these hostile or the nicest person right in the world.

So. So at least when you're in Iraq or Afghanistan, you have the thought in your mind that your attention level, because you know that there's threats everywhere, right? Right. Hostile. It's hostile everywhere here. You don't know if some of these hostile or the nicest person right in the world.

Yeah, yeah. So like, we, you know, we had a guy get jumped. It was like he was a, uh, collegiate All-American wrestler. He got he got mugged in, in, in Africa. And it's just like. But he was with three other guys. But it was like, there's nothing you could do because you don't know if those 8 or 10 guys that were around him have, you know, machine guns or anything like that. And he's got a knife and a pistol. Yeah. Or what's going to happen, you know, like all of a sudden that whole town turns on you real quick and, and, you know, game over.