Boxing with Chris MannixBoxing with Chris Mannix - Wilder’s Legacy and the Last Stand of AB
Boxing with Chris Mannix
Chris Mannix will bring fans closer to the sport and its personalities with in-depth conversations with the top names in boxing.
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Bam the Legend Slayer1:14:12
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Ryan, Devin Fallout36:34
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Tank Returns39:35
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Eddie Hearn32:02
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Boxing Boogeymen1:06:30
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Wilder’s Legacy and the Last Stand of AB1:08:34
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Matchroom/Queensbury Winners and Losers18:52
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Matchroom vs. Queensbury1:00:36
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Heavyweight Havoc59:36
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Bad Blood44:09
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Usyk is Undisputed16:13
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Undisputed1:20:17
Boxing with Chris Mannix - What to Make of Mike Tyson?52:32
Joining Mannix is longtime boxing writer Dan Rafael. Mannix and Rafael discuss an intriguing Don King card, Deontay Wilder’s legacy and the future of the Jake Paul-Mike Tyson fight. Later, heavyweight contender Michael Hunter joins the show. #Volume #Herd
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This is boxing with Chris Manning.
There's somebody punch him in the face. Anty Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Wat's this Your Winds is Heavy one hosted by sis Chris Mannix that was my moments.
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And we are back Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast Network on Welcome in everyone that is listening on the podcast speed. If you are not a subscriber, get over the box with Chris Mannox Feed. Hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this pod in your feed. Every single week we are loaded up on the show today. Dan Rayfield, longtime boxing writer, is the author of the fight Freaks Unite. Substack also appears exclusively on the Title Sports Network YouTube channel, which covers boxing, MMA and wrestling. He joins me to run through all the news of the week from a very intriguing Don King card. I never thought I'd say that, but a very intriguing Don King card in South Florida on Friday. You've got Adrian Broner on that card. You've got a heavyweight fight between Michael Hunter and Cashius Cheney on that card. We talk about everything to do with that event, plus we talk about Deontay Wilder and the legacy of Wilder. If it turns out this is the end for him and ask the question, is Deontay Wilder a Hall of Fame boxer talked to Dan about that and much more. We also get into the Mike Tyson Jake Paul fight. When we finished recording, I noticed that Jake Paul went on social media and posted that he would have an announcement on Friday about the rescheduling of that date. As I've noted before, I do believe mid October or mid November, one of those two dates is where Tyson Paul is going to get rescheduled. The question is, will something else come up with the fifty eight year old Tyson soon to be fifty eight year old Tyson over the next couple of months that causes this fight to be derailed again. That remains an open question, but I do believe that fight is going to get officially rescheduled on Friday, and then the clock starts tacking again. Hopefully Taylor Serrano is back on that card. Hopefully some of the other fights that were scheduled are back on that card, because beyond the Tyson Paul air Quotes fight, there were some really good boxing matches scheduled beyond that card, So I expect to get some news about that on Friday. A little bit later in the show, Michael Hunter, the former US Olympian heavyweight contender. He has been someone that has been largely forgotten on the boxing landscape over the last few years. He has one loss on his resume and that was a competitive fight against alexand Usik. He has got two draws on his resume Alexander Pavekin and Jerry Forrest, but for whatever reason, he has not been able to gain the interest of a major promoter. He is back this weekend working with Don King fighting cashus Cheney, and what I'm telling you is a really good heavyweight fight. Cash is Chaney, another guy with just one loss on his resume and the winner of this fight, I think he's gonna take a big step forward in the heavyweight division. I talked to Mike about his kind of journey the last few years. He had like two full years out of the ring while he was trying to secure a significant fight. Now he is back and hoping that this fight and a win in it can springboard him into bigger fights down the latch. Stick around great conversation with former US Olympian Michael Hunter. As always, subscribe rate review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and when we come back, my conversation with Dan Rayfield. All Right, Dan Rayfield, a lot I want to get into with you this week, but I'm actually interested in starting with a Don King promoted card. Like I never thought i'd say that that I want to talk about a Don King promoted card in twenty twenty four, but here we are with Don King promoting a show in South Florida that I find really interesting. Like I'm intrigued by Michael Hunter against Cassius Cheney. I don't care about the belt, but I'm intrigued by Hunter against Cheney. I am equally intrigued by Adrian Broner against Blair Cobbs, two guys that are pretty familiar to the boxing crowd. Broner multi division world champion, Cobbs a big mouth who's been in some interesting fights last couple of years. I was interested Dan right up until I saw the press conference for where Adrian Broner had some pretty wild things to say. He effectively said, and I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but in fact said that he had he and some of his friends have committed murders in the past and had gotten away with it. And if Blair Cobbs didn't watch himself, his friends would smoke Blair Cobbs. Let's start there. What did you make of the press conference for Broner against Cobbs.
I mean, it's Adrian Broner, Chris. What do you expect. I mean, I expect nonsense. Hopefully in the ring it's not nonsense. You know, he says a lot of crazy things. I guess, but I guess I there's very little that surprises me in boxing. That's just been the case for a long time. I guess i'd have to admit that if they killed the opponent, I'd be surprised. I mean, not to make light of that, so I don't put a lot of stock on that. Hopefully they'll go in the in the ring and I'll have a good fight. I mean, at least it's at least it seems on paper anyway, like a sort of an even fight, like I don't know who's gonna win. I can see reasons why Broner, even at this point in his career, could win that fight, and the same with Cobbs. I mean, it isn't evenly match fight, and no guy has a particular, you know, big advantage in terms of the weight class fighting in both guys have you know, been somewhat inactive. But Broner did fight in his first fight with Don King, you know, I mean, at one time Berner was one of the biggest stars in boxing. It just to me when I look at the fight, I'm not I'm not uninterested in the fight, but at a certain level when Broner was having major fights in big arenas and main events on major TV, et cetera, you know, it was a little bit more of a big deal. But this, you know, again, Donn has made himself what I think, like you said, for where Don King is in in his promotional career at ninety two years old, you know, doing it in some respects as an expensive hobby. He has put together, I mean, a pretty solid car. You mentioned the main event, you know, it's it's an even up match. In my mind, good fight there. I'll be watching. I mean, it's a pay per view on Triller TV PPV, but you know, I'm gonna watch it. And then, like you mentioned, as far as there's so much action in the heavyweight division, and you know, you just spend all that time in Saudi Arabia watching the heavyweights up close, and you know, just a month ago was the speeded fight Michael Hunter and Casha Shaney may not be like the top top contenders, but they fit in that group of guys that are trying to get into that level, who have some accomplishment, who are evenly matched, and that that should be a good fight. I mean, Cheney's coming off a spectacular knockout win in his last fight, which is also one of Don's South Florida cards. Hunter, you know, he's had his ups and downs, but he's always been a solid pro. So as a co feature, that's pretty good. And remember, unfortunately they were supposed to have the WBC Cruiserweight Champion Noel mckellian in his first defense on this card, but that definitely was postponed because of an injury. And you know, he looked very good in winning that title on another one again on a recent Don King card in South Florida, and he was going to perform. He's from Armenia, but he lives in that area, so he was excited to have a hometown crowd. That obviously won't be the case, but again, I think Down's put together a pretty decent card. I can't. I can't. I gotta be honest.
Yeah, And I want to say this about Adrian Browner. This is winner go Home for him. It is. He's thirty four years old, and if you can't beat Blair Cobbs, you have no shot at competing at a high level at one forty seven or you know, theoretically if you could make one forty like Blair Cobbs, I think is the exact right opponent Fradrian Broner because he's got credibility. He beat Mary Sucker in his last fight. I thought it look pretty good in that fight. Granted it was a couple of years ago now, but I thought it looked pretty good in that fight. He also fights with his chin way up in the air, like this is what what happened to him against Alexis Roacha Like he just exposed that chin, and you know he allowed roach to just to tee off and knock him out. This is a fight that Adrian Broner I think can not only win, but he can look good winning. At the same time, he could lose, because I do think Blair Cobbs is gonna like all broner opponents throw more punches than him, and I think there's a decent chance that Cobbs wins a wide decision. But to me, at thirty four, this is it Fradrian Broner. If you can't get up and win a fight like this, I don't know what what your pathway to a one is.
So Broner's coming off the like literally one year layoff almost to the day, Cobbs is coming off a twenty two month layoff. You explain the way it could go, I think perfectly. I don't have to argue or quibble you with you about that. I'll just say that in terms of Broner, like winner go home, the reality is, yeah, he needs to win to keep his career going in any kind of get back into one in kind of a bigger fight. Fair enough, But you honestly believe that if Broner loses that he's going to retire. He's thirty four, that's fine, but he's gonna still fight. It's not like he's going back to college, not like he's going to get a degree and you know, become a dentist or something like that. He's a boxer and that's what he's gonna do, and he'll still because of his name and the polarizing nature of his personality. He may not be for big money, but he certainly will be able to get himself some fights even if he loses this fight, just because that's what he does. He's going to have to make some money. May not be the big money that he used to make, but people will still book him on fights. It may not be the biggest shows in the world, but I would be willing to bet you just about anything whatever happens in their fight on Friday Night, Adrian Browner is not retiring from their inn.
I think on the flip side, if he wins, there are big fights out there, for money, fights out there for him. I think Colin ben is a good fight for him. That's one that's been talked about a lot over the last year.
I mean, Connor still got his licensing issues. Obviously, that's doing the U.
I mean I'm sort of like, assuming you do in the US.
Well, here's the thing about that, Chris, because now he's officially lost his kings in the UK, I'm still not clear whether the ABC will put him back on the national suspension list. I think there's a pretty good chance. They Well, the reason they removed him from the national suspension list in the first place was because, from what the ABC folks say, they did not get any assistance or clarity when they requested it from the British regulators to help them with the decision, and so their perspective was, we're not going to just hold them up if they're If his Home Commission is not going to give us any guidance, there's no reason for us not to have him, you know, off the suspension list. Now that he's formally back on a suspension in the UK, I'm going to assume if he tries to come to the States that he's going to be act on that ABC suspension list. But you know, remains to be seen. But in theory, yeah, you're right, that's not a bad matchup.
Well, I like you, Dan will be one of the pay per view buyers. So here you go to the Danny Berner, Cobbs, Hunter Cheney card. And I never thought i'd say that about a don King kars. I haven't bought many of them over the years. Okay, So last weekend we saw Deontay Wilder get knocked out by Jaylee Jeong and you and I have covered Deontay for all of his career, going back to the amateur days at the Olympics, turning pro heavyweight championship, run the fights with Tyson Fury. It's been a ride with Deontay Wilder. Do you think we've seen the end of that ride with Wilder?
I mean, I never say never, especially when it comes to heavyweights, but I have to believe that this has got to be the end for Deontay. And I don't say that with any glee whatsoever. I mean, Deontay's been one of my favorite fighters to watch and cover for a long time. You mentioned Mat covered his whole career. I mean I was actually when the fight happened. I was looking back on his record. I looked down his list of fights Chris. I was at his professional debut. I covered a number of his fights on the way up. I was at the fight when he won the WBC title against Bermain Stavara in the first place. I covered eight of his ten title defenses in person. I was at all three of the Tyson Fury fights, and I was there for the comeback against Helenius. And you know, over that long period of time, you know, you get to know these guys, you know their team, you know, you meet the family, and you know, I like Deontay. We have a good rapport. I had a very great interview with him a few days before the fight. He was already in Saudi Arabia. We did about twenty five minutes. That was, you know, a really good interview. So I wish nothing but the best for Deontay Wilder. But at this stage, you know, it's very clear that he cannot get the job done like he once did. And we even had a conversation in that interview. I mentioned one of the things that you know, I asked him about what went wrong when he fought the fight where he lost against Joseph Parker, and he talked about, well, you know, I don't I couldn't pull the trigger. I could see the openings, I couldn't pull the trigger. And I said to him, very politely, I'm not trying to like rile him up. I said, Deontae, when you hear boxers talk about they see the opening, but they can't pull the trigger, that's literally the exact verbiage that's used to describe a shot fighter. And he thought about that, and I said, so do you think that you're getting to that position in your career, you know, and he's like, no, you know, me and my team we talked about that I'm not a shot fighter. But it was the same thing against the and against Zilly Zang that he the openings were there, Jang's not exactly miss their defense, and you know, he could not get the shots off properly and do damage. So I think if he has an honest conversation with his team and with his family as people and in his own mind, it's going to have to realize that that that that's the end of the road. No one wants to see this man get hurt in the ring. He's had a tremendous career I view. You know, there's he's kind of got a polarizing career because on the one and people say, well, you never beat anybody, never, you know, did any real big, big win, which I don't think is entirely fair. And by the same token, it's hard to look at a guy and say you had a you know, your career was not notworthy because the guy won an Olympic medal, the guy had a long rain as a WBC heavyweight champion five years ten title defenses. He actually made more title defenses than Mike Tyson did when he was in his heyday. Had one of the great trilogies in the history of boxing against Tyson Fury. Yeah, he came up short, you know, two to one. I know people want to say the draw was not worthy. I thought he won the first fight on the minority. But I've watched that five twenty times. There's absolutely ways that you can see while they're winning that fight because of the first four or five rounds that were very close. Anyway, the point I'm making is that if he calls it a day, he's had a heck of a career once in big fights. It brought a lot of excitement, rejuvenated the American heavyweight boxing scene in many respects, brought in a lot of fans, had a big personality, and for his sake, made tens and tens of probably made one hundred million dollars in his career. I would say, if you know all in that the Tyson Fury trilogy alone is probably worth over sixty million dollars then maybe more. Not to mention what he was making on these cards in Saudi Arabia plus other fights. You know, numerous showtime type fights where he was making seven figure money. You know, they built a freaking statute for him in his hometown. So he's had a good career, and so I do I do hope. I'm never one to say like he should retire and shake my finger at them, but I hope. I like Deantay, I want to see him with a fruitful life. I want him to enjoy it. Look, he got into this, Chris as you know, to help pay medical bills for his daughter, after working as a as a as a lion cook at fast food restaurants and delivering you know, soda products and this and that. You know, the guy made it. He's a success story. So I wish him good luck.
Yeah, I do hope that it's over. He's lost what now like four of his last six or four of his last five, four of his last five. Two of his last three have been brutal knockouts, like the third loss to Tyson Fury was a bad knockout. This lost Jeong was a bad knockout. I do hope that he calls it a day. And to your point, he has made a pile of money. He's still living in Alabama. I'm guessing that money goes a long way down in Alabama.
So here's the question, where does the money go a longer way in Tuscaloose to Alabama or Omaha, Nebraska or Bud Crawford list.
I think they're very comparable. I would say that. So I hope he moves on to another phase of his life. He does lead behind a complicated legacy. In every possible way, he is a winner for all the reasons that you articulated there. This was a football player who got into boxing, to your point, to take care of his disabled daughter and did that at the highest possible level, got to the Olympics, won a medal, won a world championship, defended a bunch of times. But and maybe this won't come up for a few years when you know Deontay is eligible for the Hall of Fame. But there is going to be scrutiny obviously on his resume. And if you look at his resume, his quality wins have come against one guy, and that's Louis Ortiz. Two wins over Louis artis the rest of them.
I'll quip with you a little bit. And the reason I say that is because when he won the World title in the first place. Bermain Severne was a reigning title holder who was a highly regarded fighter, who was a top ten, top five heavyweight across the board at that time, and he won every single round. I mean it was the only time actually up to that point where he hadn't scored a knock got. Granted, he stopped a much more diminished Tavern in the rematch, but again, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you been brain. Savern is a Hall of Famer, but it's I believe unfair to examine the record of Deontay Wilder and not give him credit for the first victory against the Verne as being a very solid wine remember going into that fight, and I was there. I remember, and I'm not going to Monday Morning quarterback. There was a lot of people that thought Staverne, with his power, and with the fact that Deontay was not tested at that point because he did not fight anybody until he got to the world title fight, how was he gonna fair against an experienced title holder who had good power, who was an amateur that was solid, you know, who had one loss. But years and years earlier that there was a lot of questions could he even go past a few rounds because Deontey had scored so many early knockouts. So there was a million questions surrounding Deontay Wilder going into that fight. He passed them with flying colors. He went to distance, didn't seem in any kind of rough shape because of it, won easily. So again, I'm not gonna take away that victory. Yes it's not beaten Muhammad Ali or anybody like that, but it's still a quality win. I'm gonna give him win. I'm gonna give him credit for the Arthur Spilka victory, who only had one defeat going at that fight, who was known as a pretty solid contender at that time. You know, again, Gerald Washington was an undefeated fighter at that time. I'm just saying, you gotta look at it. What was the the conventional wisdom at the moment to fight happen. Yeah, we can look back and say, now, okay, Gerald never really panned out, tremendous athlete, big, big, strong guy. Again, it's a decent win, but it's you know, you say, Luis Ortiz, that was obviously a huge win because Rtiz was like across the board, you know, top what three or four heavyweight at that time. They had a tremendous first fight, and he stopped them. He did have a very close fight with Fury in the first fight, no doubt about it. You know, Brazil just had the one loss to Joshua before they fought. I'm just saying, like, it's not fair to just look at the resume and say, like, Yo, he just sucks. No, I definitely don't think he sucks. I think I think we're talking.
I'm more using like the Hall of Fame as the barometer, right like that is the rarefied era of where great fighters ultimately go. And I think the question for a Wilder is if he had fought the best of the best between twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen and used that list of you know, Vladimir Klitschko still on top at that time, Tyson Fury was going through his stuff around that time, didn't fight, you know for a couple of years.
Well, the fight that should have happened was him and Joshua when they were both undefeated, nineteen, had all the belts together, Joshua three he had won. There was conversations and legit discussions about it multiple occasions, and that's the fight that should have happened, and if he had won that fight, which at that time a lot of people favored him, a lot of people favored Joshua, that would have been the defining fight. Obviously they probably would have had a rematch, I guess, and unfortunately it'll go into, as I say, the dust bin of history because we never see that matchup as it should have been, even when they tried to make it last year, you know, with the Day of Reckoning card and then Deontay got the loss against Parker. You know, there was even still discussion if he beats a Zilly Zang, we might see the fight.
We would have that would have been on, that would have been headline the Wembley Stadium card in September.
But now we're not going to see it. And like you said, it's a complicated legacy because he's got the longevity as a heavyweight champion, and there's not if you look at the Hall of Fame, there's not a lot of guys who had a heavyweight title for five years and made ten You know what, I vote in Hall of Fame. I've been voting in Hall of Fame for over twenty years, and that's one. I'm going to have to give some really difficult, hard thought too.
This is what I'm saying.
It's right now. And I say this with all the respect to Dante at the moment, because you know, you got to look back sometimes. I don't like to make that decision like the in the heat of the moment, when you look back. I mean, there's reasons to say yes and reasons to say no. If you put a gun to my head right now today, I'd have to say no that. So what I you know, I don't say that with Lee now. He does part of the the legacy, part of the resume, part of the reasons to give him the yes vote. If you're going to argue that point of view is he did win an Olympic medal. I count that as part of the overall package when I decide on who I'm going to vote for in the Hall of Fame. He was a part of one of the greatest trilogies in the history of the sport. And unlike basketball or football or baseball, what you did for the sport, in my opinion, is part of your legacy. It's an important factor when I vote that if you're in meaningful fights even if you don't win every one of them, it's important. He does have a draw against Fury. Let us not forget the draw is not a loss. Was a draw? I mean that does count for something. And there is the aspect of the ten defenses, more defenses, as I will say again than Mike Tyson. So there's there is some meat on that bone. However you decide to examine it.
Yeah, there's meat on it, and it's gonna be a talked about issue when his time comes for the Hall of Fame. I lean towards no at the moment, Like I understand what we were saying. The record of Jeral Washington was good, the record of Dominic Brazil was good. But even in those moments, and I agree with you on Steverne, like Steverne that was a fifty to fifty fight the first one. But even in those moments with Brazil and Washington and Spilka, even like I never thought while there was going to lose, And I would argue, if you go back, he was probably a considerable favorite going into each one of them. So I him not having those coin flip type of fights until the very end when he lost them. The Fury fights the Parker fight, the Jong fight, not having the fights with ag he might have beaten back then, like both those guy We thought of both those guys very differently back in twenty nineteen, right, Like that was pre aj getting stopped by Andy Ruweiz, That was before Wilder got stopped by Tyson Fury.
No, it's funny. What's funny when you say that, though, Chris, And this is the thing that is that you know, we talked about how the Joshua fight did not happen, like I don't really hold the Jang and the Parker fights against him because he's already you know, beyond his best in my mind. But I think back and I.
Was at am so Jeong is forty one so but not.
Nearly as much mileage, I guess. But nonetheless I think back to the Gerald Washington fight. Now he lost to Parker, you know, got routed in the in the in the fight before the Gen fight. But when in twenty seventeen when he fought Gerald Washington. I covered that fight in Birmingham, Alabama, and on that card was one of Joseph Parker's buddies from Australia or that he trained with in Australia or New Zealand where they were training at the point is there was a lot of discussion in that build up at that fight that week in Birmingham that if Deontay defeated Gerald Washington, that they were going to make a fight between him and Joseph Parker, which would have been a big deal at that time. And it didn't happen. And you know, it's unfortunate, but those are the fights that he didn't get a chance to have. I'm not blaming it. And it's not like he like there was an offer Mayane, he turned it down, but if he had fought, there was for ja. But it's the shoes on both feet though, you know what I mean.
True, But you know Deata said in the past like he took less money to fight Fury the second time that he was offered to fight Anthony Joshua.
And the reason he did that, as he says, you got to finish the sentence. He did that, he says, because he gave him his word that he would give him the rematch. So are we going to penalize a guy for keeping to his word. I mean, I don't know about you, but I like people that keep to their word.
Generally, I do yes, Generally, I do like people. I do like great fights, though, so look, I mean, we see fights bounce in and out all the time. You know he put off a fight, you go back to circle back to it later. I don't know, I like again, just to put a button on it. The big what if to me is like what would have happened between twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen, if he had fought Joseph Parker, if he had fought Flatier mclitchko, if he had fought Anthony Joshua, if he had fought any of the top tier guys that were out there. We never saw that, so I guess we'll never know.
If that's a fair point. It's disappointing.
I want to ask you about the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight, but we have a card this weekend in New York. Some of the top rank prospects are on that, car Xander Zias one hundred and fifty four pound prospects, Shushu Carrington smaller weight prospect. I want to ask you about the ceilings for both these guys, because these are two guys that top rank is pretty high on and they're both approaching that contender stage. I think Xander probably a little bit more advanced at this point than than Shooshu. But Xandersias, who's headlined the show, what do you think his ceiling is as a fighter.
World champion, a guy that fills up Madison's reguards main arena, not just the theater, A popular fighter within the Puerto Rican community. I think a fighter that is going to be well liked by the fans as they get to know him even better, already well liked by the media because of his the way, you know, he he's very mature for his age, very accommodating to the media. Got to remember, this kid's twenty one years old. And if you ever, I don't know if you've interviewed him before, I've interviewed him a few times and been to some of his fights. You know, he may only be twenty one, but he's an old he's an old head, so to speak like he's you know, he comes off as much much more mature than that than that age would indicate. I mean, it struck me one time, I think I I think it was before his last fight, when he fought in December, and I had interviewed him, and we talked about, like, you know, the age that he's only twenty one years old. He's been a professional since he's seventeen, and that he missed out on, you know, things that normal teenagers would do about, you know, going to the movies on the Friday night, or going to your prom, or going going to college or those types of things. And he's like, you know, I didn't miss any of that because I didn't know what it was. And you know, eventually I can do that later with my friends and family when I you know, do the accomplishments that I'm hoping to do in the sport of boxing. In other words, he takes it really seriously, Like this is not a kid that messes around. He doesn't run around it, you know, and you have bad habits by all, Like he trains hard. So if you put that together with the mentality that he seems to have, with the work ethic that he seems to have, with the talent, that seems pretty obvious. You know, I think he's got a chance to go a long way. I mean, there's a reason why he was signed to such a young agent, why he's been brought along exactly the perfect way by Top Rank and his management team. They're putting him in with Patrick Decida on the fight this weekend. He's a former WBO one hundred and fifty four pound champion. Is maybe not it's a very good fight for him. I think, yeah, Patrick maybe not at his absolute best anymore, and that's that's a fair statement. But he's leaps and bounds better on paper anyway, by a lot than anybody that Xander has ever fought. But I think he's up for the challenge. I mean, this is a kid that is it's time to make them move at twenty one. He's strong. You can see it in when you look at him. His body has filled out. He's got the mental part of it, I think handled. And you know, I think he's got a chance to I don't know if he's gonna be like talent for pound necessarily, but I think can he win a world title? Can he make people care about him because he's going to put on entertaining fights and has a personality that's going to attract fans, particularly among the Puerto Ricans, No doubt about it. That's that's my thought about it. I Mean I've had him no at the end of the year, Chris. You know, I do my prospects at the end of the year. I've had him highly ranked in the top five or so for the last couple of years, two three years. And this is the breakout here the patrick to share a fight that he's gonna have on Saturday. That's the fight where with a solid win where he in my mind anyway, you know, he goes from prospect to contender.
Yeah, I think this is a good stepping stone type of fight to share. Outside of that fight where he got absolutely starched by Curtis Stevens, has been pretty durable even in some of his losses, So I think that's a good test for Zayder's eyes. You kind of forget, and I kind of forgot he's only twenty one years old, Like it's crazy, like he's eighteen and oh and twenty one years old. I thought he was a little bit more advanced than that.
But it's also not that it's not that long ago that that to Shira had the victory over Carlo Sadam, who now has the w BBC title at Middleway. Yeah, you know, and he gave a tough fight even though he lost to Kastano. Yeah, it was wide, but it wasn't like he embarrassed himself. My point is he's he's a very reputable opponent for this fight for Xander.
Yeah, and I think you're going to get a chance to see Xander go some rounds in a fight like this against a guy that's you know, won a world title against the guy's face world class opposition. I think this is the perfect test for him at the stage of his career. As you well know, Dan top rank also very high on Bruce Carrington, Shushoe Carrington, and to the point where I'm now seeing some stuff on social media about Shoeshoe Carrington being the in a way stopper, like he is going to be the fighter that derails the in a way trained definitely a little bit too early for that, just eleven and zero for Shoeshoe Carrington. But he is twenty seven years old, so you know, chronologically he's advanced. What do you think the ceiling is for Shoshoe and given his age, are we a little bit closer to seeing him in a bigger fight.
Well, I think they're both in. They're both on that verge because, as you mentioned, like they've taken their time with Xander who was only twenty one. But the handcuffs are going to be off soon, so to speak in terms of the opponents, because they're only gonna be able to hold him back for so long. Obviously, you don't make a match with the Shira and then bring him backwards from that if he wins on Saturday. So you know that the age may be separated by the six years. But don't forget that Shushu has a big amateur background. You know, he just a guy that was still fighting the amateurs in twenty twenty. He's only been a professional since twenty tw end of twenty twenty one, so he's moved pretty quickly, and they like what he's what they've seen from He's showing power, He's shown ring intelligence, poise, you know, the things that you want to see from a young prospect. He's, you know, twenty seven for a featherweight is you know a lot of guys have already you know, been champion, lost championships by that time as a featherweight, but you know, everybody develops at their own pace. You know, he's in the co feature on the on the show. You know, he scored a spectacular knockout against a reputable opponent and only had the one loss, and that was the fight that they had in Worry. So you say, what's the ceiling on him? I think that it's similar to what what we talked about. The ceiling would be maybe for for Xander's eyes, which is can he become a fatherweight world champion? Absolutely?
Uh?
Can he bring in fans? Absolutely? With that kind of style he's got, It's different than Xanders. Xander's more reserved, more more, but but more smiley and pound your chests like the way that uh uh you know that he that the way the appeals have gone with like a Trinidad towards the Puerto Rican fans, shoes Show, Carrington is a little bit more. He'll talk a little more smack, so to speak, like Xander's not like that in his conversation, but when Shoesho has done it, he does it in an endearing kind of way. So I think he definitely can make a lot of fans, whether the the New York fans or otherwise. Tremendous talent. I mean, I've been watching him from day one. I would think I was at his pretty's term pro if I'm not mistaken on one of the uh when when the Fury Fury Wilder had their rematch and Top Rank was very high on him at that point. So they're bringing him along too, and now they're turning them loose. Also, this is definitely uh a fight where where they're going to look. Actually, it was the third fight that he had against the Fury wild There are threes where Sho should turned pro Anyway, I'm just making the point here that he is a top notch prospect, but he's the same kind of guy where I'm thinking, maybe one or two more fights, you're gonna have to call him a contender. He'll already call himself a contender. That's what That's what Top Rank and them think. But they love what they've seen and that's why they're moving him aggressively. Unfortunately, they had to switch opponents at the last minute because Vivas had a visa problem. But to the credit of Top Rank, what they did was they had Brian Degrassia, who's going to be the new opponent. They've had him on standby for like six weeks, training and making sure he's on wait and prepared and ready to go in case they needed him. So they they they're getting their insurance policy to cash in because he's not going to come into the ring against Shushu as a guy that's just you know, getting off the couch. I mean, he's been training for the last six weeks, so that's a good thing for everybody. So we'll see. I mean, I think he's got a chance to shine again.
Top Rank has, as usual, they have some really good prospects. I mean, I was in when I was in Saudi, I was in a car for while with Ben Davison, and the one guy Ben kept talking about was Abdullah Mason, who is another Top Rank prospect who was fighting on the July sixth card that Top Rank has in Newark. That kid could fight. That's another like and way Ben was talking, he looks at him as a future pound for pound type of talent. So they have got a deep stable of goodness talent.
Top Rank the guys on And this is not a knock on any of the promotion companies out there, because every promoter has their share of like blue ship type guys, but Top Rank, to me, the depth of their prospect stable is unparalleled. It is the deepest by far you could take the prospect stables of other promoters. And combine them together, and top rank still has more legitimate, top level prospects who had big amateur careers or that were diamonds in the rough that are on their way, you know, to big time things. And you mentioned Mason, he's one of them. And then then there's the guys that are more well known like Xander and Keishan. Davis Carrington is one of these guys. He didn't come into the pros with like crazy amounts of attention. There was no crazy bidding war to sign him or anything like that. But they did their homework and they'd seen what he's been able to do in recent you know, in not just recent but throughout his you know, eleven fight career so far, and he's looked, you know, looked the part. So it's the continued development. As Shoe Shoe says, as he fights in New York City once again, it's not New York City, it's Show York City.
Let me ask you this, and this is a little off topic, but we saw Bob Aram over in the UK a couple of weeks ago going ballistic on the mic. Still Bob Aram, even at ninety three years old, it's crazy just watching how he's ninety three, sorry, ninety two, ninety three in December. Do you ever wonder what happens with top rank after Bob Aram dies? Like we hope, we both hope he lives forever, but does anything change? Like Bob Aram is top rank like the company. You know, he doesn't do the day to day anymore. We both know that like he is, And he's even said, like I think last time I interviewed him, he said, they kind of old me out for interviews every so often. So that's kind of who he is at this point a little more than a figurehead, but not the day to day guy he used to be. What do you think happens the top rank when we finally, hopefully years from now, lose mob area no sing listen.
First of all, it's like you said, I mean, he's earned the point in his life in terms of his sixty something years or so. As a promoter, he's been promoting boxing since nineteen sixty six. His first fight in you know that he ever did as a promoter was Muhammad Ali George Shavalo nineteen sixty six. That's a long freaking time of doing boxing. The notion he's still involved in it is amazing to me. And even that last trip you mentioned, I mean, yeah, he may not be doing every single thing in terms of the day to day, but at ninety two years old, this man went from the United States to Japan for the inn Away fight. From Japan, he went to Perth, Australia, which is the end of the earth, to be at the George Cambosis Lomachenko fight. Then he went from there again with some of his with his wife Lovey, and with some of his staff. They went from Perth to read for Ousick against Tyson Fury. Then they went from there to Leeds, England for the Catterall fight that you just mentioned in terms of him going off about the judging. Remember he was supposed to go from Leeds back to Saudi Arabia because originally he was supposed to be his fighter, Arthur Better Bam fighting people fro Um disputed. Obviously, that fight was postponed, so we didn't go back. So we went from Leeds back to Los Angeles to his home there and now flew back cross country. Was about the fly cross country to be at the Xanders Ayas fight on Saturday, and also to be with Noya in a way, who he co promotes, who's going to attend from the Boxing Writer's dinner this weekend or on Thursday night, I guess to collect his two thousand and twenty three Fighter of the Year award. So he still has that passion for it. So you say, what's gonna happen when he's no longer with us? As you mentioned, I hope it's decades and decades from now. Obviously, you know, I've enjoyed most of my time of being around Bob and covering Bob, not all times. We've had some rough moments, like I'm sure you have that also, But because he's not doing the day to day business and they have a group of people that do that stuff, whether you know Todd the buff, you know his step son who is the president of the company, and the rest of the team. You know their attorney Jeremy Kogel that does their business. They've got Carl Moretti in the matchmaking team of Bruce Trampler and Brad Goodman. Like they could just be business as usual. Uh, you know Todd will have to step up and take a i think a more public role. You know that spot where you always have Aaron doing the interviews and stuff. But Tod's capable of doing that. He just has to do it if he wants to do it. But I think that because of the legacy they have the TV contract that they have. Will see what happens when that comes up for renewal. The library they interesting, the TV contract could be interesting, very interesting.
ESPN spending a lot of money on NBA and most likely UFC. I do wonder Dan, how much is left for boxing after that.
Well that's listen, that's not just a top rank thing. That's every promoter out there that you are your TV deal is. I mean, we've seen what happened, you know, to not to get too off the rails here, but you know, look at the struggles that that PBC is endeavoring to deal with at the moment. I mean, they've got tremendous stable of fighters, but they've had you know what, three cards so far in twenty twenty four, all on pay per view, and nothing scheduled to my knowledge past June fifteenth, when they do the Tank Davis pay per view, which I guess what will that be there? That'll be there? What third card of the year they did? They just did what they've done so far. They did at Canelo fight, and they did the March thirtieth, Yeah, with Tim Zoo and Fondora, So you know, you're only as good as that TV deal. But Top Rank they have unparalleled history in the sport. They have a library that is second to none. That may not be worth gazillions in terms of if they were to sell it, but there's lots of opportunities to license it throughout the world that will bring money in on a regular basis. And they've got that great history, So I think they're going to go on as long as they have a reasonable broadcast outlet.
All right, So from Top Rank to Mike Tyson and and what a segue that is.
Hold on Tyson a lot of those early fights on Top Rank Boston shows back in the.
Day, so a perfect segue then. So this past week we learned that the Mike Tyson Jake Paul fight that was scheduled for July twentieth has been postponed. This is because Mike Tyson has been dealing with an ulcer issue that apparently flared up either before or during a recent flight. My understanding, Dan is that they are talking to the folks at Cowboy Stadium about rescheduling this fight for some time in the fall. Now, once you get into the fall, obviously you're dealing with Cowboy games and there's only a limited number of dates that they can go to. But I was told that there are two dates, one in mid October and one in mid November, that they are considering. But I was also told by people involved with some of the other fighters that they're not so sure that this specific fight is going to get rescheduled. And you've already seen Floyd Schofield announced on social media he was supposed to take on Ashton Silv on the undercart of Tyson Paul. He says he is fighting on July sixth, the card Golden Boy has headlined by Williams Ofpada, and he's not gonna be fighting Ashton Silva on that card. I do think there's probably some people inside the camps of Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano that are wondering is this fight going to get rescheduled. If it's not, do we have to look for other options, either against each other or against somebody else. So what do you make of this official postponement of Mike Tyson and.
J Paul listen. I wasn't sure why it was going to be postponed, but in the back of my mind from the moment it was announced, I always wondered if it would actually come off. As a matter of fact, you know, I've been making my travel plans where I'm going to be going to in the coming weeks and months for my boxing coverage, and you know, I've already I'm going to be in Las Vegas for the Tank Davis cart I already booked my flight for August third for the big card in Los Angeles with Crawford and the read season stuff. But I had like flights on hold for the Texas show and I just never booked it. I figured I could wait. There was lots of availability, and I just didn't want to like book it. So even though I can get you know, credit or whatever, I was like, let me just wait and see what happens and I'll make my arrangements closer to the fight. So it didn't totally shock me that the fight was postponed. Now, when they announced the postponement, they claimed that they would have a new date announced. I believe it's this coming Friday, So I'm not sure when this podcast is going to go up, but we may already know by that point when they're claiming it's going to be You mentioned about Cowboys Stadium. Nikisa Bedari and obviously Jake's business partner with MVP Promotions, had said to me when I asked them about this, that yeah, we want to keep the fight at Cowboys Stadium. That's that's important to everybody involved. The Cowboys still wanted the hosts this big event, and it make no mistake if it does happen as a big event, but they become much more It becomes much more complicated when you're dealing with the Dallas Cowboys football schedule, not to mention other activities that go on there, whether it's college football or other things that are taking place in the non summertime. So you know, I think they might be able to reschedule it, but I think there's a lot of questions that are going to have to be asked and answered in terms of the commission. About the notion that you already had a fifty six year old or no, I take them back a Entyson, a guy who was going to be fifty eight on fight month, even if even if it took place on July twentieth, so he'll be fifty eight if it gets rescheduled. That you were already licensing a fifty year old guy to be in a professional boxing match, even with certain accommodations such as shorter rounds, only an eight round or the bigger gloves, those types of things. Now you're dealing with a guy that's that same scenario. But also how to have you know, being a wheelchair coming off an airplane because of an ulcer, Like I mean, you know, I'm not a doctor. Fine, and you know, hopefully Mike is okay and you can get a clearance, but you know that's you got to ask questions about that. This is not This is not a joke, This is not This is a real like really guys hitting each other and Jake, you know all the people that say, you know, Tyson is Tysons, This Tyson is that he's the baddest man on the planet, and all that all I know is this. I spent the early years of my boxing writing career covering the last days of the of Mike Tyson as a professional fighter, when he was getting knocked out and losing and and he's not going to be better twenty years later, which is literally what it will be. So I questioned it big time. I'm not a hater of the event. You know, I was going to make plans to go and cover it, but you know, they got to The Commission's job is to make sure that the combatants are not in any additional danger than a normal boxing match. So I think you got to you gotta give Tyson the tests and check it out. Because all I know is this dude, Jake Paul. Whatever you think about is boxing. He's a young man in his physical prime at twenty seven. He definitely has big power in the right hand.
There's a part of me that really want to see this fight get rescheduled because the interest on a mainstream level has been tremendous. Did every interview I do for basketball reasons? Somehow the host finds a way to weave Tyson Paul into it because they know some of my boxing background. This is a fight that has captivated a mainstream audience in the way that very few, if any boxing matches over the last twenty twenty five years, have been able to do.
They make joke about it on the late night talk shows. I saw a reference on like Weekend Update on Saturday Night Live, you know, not that long ago. Friends of mine who obviously know what I do for a living, but really aren't boxing fans. You know, they're sports fans. I've had several of them in the last couple of months since his fight was an now has asked me about Tyson and Jake Pawie. Are you going to go to that fight? You know what? He is? That a real fight? What do you think about Tyson? Can he fight? He's old, isn't he What about Jake Paul? Can he is any good? Is he gonna you know, knock out Mike Tyson and others like I hope Tyson, Knox and Mountain. I mean, I've had that from everybody, and you say the same thing of different interviews I've done, obviously minor not related to the NBA, they're boxing related, But anytime I'm asked, I've been asked about that fight often. You mentioned about the rescheduling of some of those fights that were announced for that card just because Scofield is going to go and fight on the Williams of Paida card. The Tyson fight is obviously not going to take place in the month of July, so well, even if they reschedule for say, you know, September, October, November. I don't think there's anything that would preclude them from reschedulingu Spowfield against ashtonmself. They just there's no reason for for a young fighter like Scholfield to sit out and not fight for months and months not knowing. So yeah, I think they're doing I.
Can't tell you, though, Dan, I do know there has been some anxiety within the Taylor Serato camps because they want this fight to happen. The paydays that both were getting are significant, so they either want to see this fight happen or get rescheduled officially, or you know, they they want to fight on another date, Like they want to find a way to do this fight one way or the other. So yeah, you know, they did say, you know, end of this week there would be some kind of announcement about a rescheduling for their sake. I hope. I do like the part of me that that is okay with like this postponement slash whatever is to what we just talked about there, Like this should not be an official fight. It should not. I think the state of Texas is the only state that would license it as an official fight. I don't believe California would do it. I don't believe Nevada would do it. I don't believe New York would do it. I just don't believe it.
But if they were doing the fight in like Tennessee or West Virginia.
Or but I mean, I guess traditional boxing state r right, Texas a traditional boxing state they like. I hope this in some ways is a wake up call to the state commission down there, say, look, you want to go ahead with the fight and do it under the same sort of auspices of the Tyson Roy Jones fight. Great, do it that way, call it an exhibition, have some fun with it, whatever. But calling it a sanctioned event, even if you're using fourteen ounce gloves, it's not right. It's not right Tyson.
To me, it's not the thing about the fourteen ounds cloves. To me, the bigger thing is that a men's fight that's supposed to be an actual fight that's two minute rounds. I mean a lot of times we spend time talking about how the women want to fight three minute rounds, and in a lot of places they're limited to the two minute rounds. We've talked plenty about Serrano's campaign and crusade to only fight three minute round fights, so when she was champion, and she would kind of force that hand with those commissions. Obviously, in this case, Katie's the champion, so she wanted the two and they're willing to do it. My point is that to me, that's the bigger thing is I've never known in my mind anyway, a sanction nail fight that was a two minute round fight. That to me is wild.
Yeah. You know what I said to people though, too, like is you know, the people that are excited about seeing these guys get into the ring, one thing I've told them is don't be shocked. Don't just don't be shocked if you're disappointed after thinks, just like if you're expecting nineteen ninety two Mike Tyson, like you know, the or the early early to late eighties or mid to late eighties, Mike, if.
You're expecting for two thousand and four, Mike Tyson, you're on drugs like you.
Are going to be. I mean two minute rounds. Two minutes goes by fast. And what I saw from the Roy Jones exhibition was a whole lot of grabbing and a whole lot of hugging. And I gotta believe if Tyson Paul get in the ring, you'll see a whole lot of grabbing and a whole lot of hugging.
I just but probably more from Tyson, not from Jake.
Probably probably all. I think Jake will have some anxiety early on about it.
You know. The thing about is they kept pointing to, you know, these amazing videos that were on mike social media, you know, explosive on the midd seconds. Well, thank you. I mean the point is, it's one thing to watch a twenty second clip on Instagram. It's a totally different ballgame when it's two minutes and another guy is punching you back. I mean, you can, you know, you can make things look in a certain way. So again, I've always had in the back of my mind watching and being there and covering the end of Mike's actual career and watch him just get pummeled and quit and destroyed against you know, obviously against lenningx SLEW was at a high level, but at a far, far, far lower level than a Kevin McBride or a Danny Williams. Those types of fights. You know, it just you don't get better when you're fifty eight years old after having not box for nineteen years.
I'm sorry, Yeah, I agree with that. Check Out Dan's newsletter Fight Freaks Unite to terrific read every single day. Fall him on social media at Twitter at Dan Rayfield One. Dan always appreciate your time, man, good stuff.
Chris, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
And when we come back, my conversation with Michael Hunter. All right. Michael Hunter is a former US Olympian. He is a once beaten heavyweight title contender on Friday who get a chance to take a step closer towards becoming a full heavyweight champion when he takes on Cassius Cheney in South Florida for the WA interim version of their heavyweight title. To fight you can watch live on pay per view. And I'm Mike, I was saying earlier in the show, like sometimes from being honest, some of these Don King cards are hit or miss for me. But this one I'm pretty excited about. Like you've got you against casshust who I've liked for a while back when he was with Main Events and I watched him closely. And of course you've got Adrian Broner and Blair Cobbs on that card as well. And I actually want to ask you because I was watching the press conference and I'm watching you sit there while Broner is kind of going off on his tangent. You're you're just looking down your phone, man, like you're just trying to stay the hell out of whatever is going on there? What was going through your mind while Adrian was going on And.
Well, one thing was, uh, you know, he was trying to say that he wasn't, you know, upset about it, but he looked really upset to me, and he looked like he did look like he was on wait. So his excuse was seemed to be, you know, on par what he was saying. But you know, it's really no excuse for being late. But I just think, you know, it was a little bit treacherous, a little bit harsh for the words he was using. You know, I think that Blair was is just trying to have fun and sell the fight, and Adrian Bronner was was a little upset about what was going on. I'm still, you know, selling the fight and bringing eyes to the obviously he's Adrian Browner. He brings his eyes to it. But I just think he was It seemed like he got under his skin about a little bit, you know, just the words that he used and choose the words that he choose to, you know, say on camera. So yeah, I kind of was like it was a little harsh. You know, I wouldn't really speak like that in front of the camera like that. Nobody could really get me that angry, you know what I'm saying.
So yeah, I can't remember hearing someone have their life threatened at a press conference. That was a new one for me in the sport of boxing. That's that's saying something if it's a new one.
Yeah, exactly. But I think he's, you know, I think he's gonna be ready. He you know, he had a great camp camp, you know, he he's he was with some people who really cared about him, you know what I'm saying in the circle, and you know, he definitely seems like he you know, uh, this is really a do or die situation. So I think that you know, he's gonna step up for sure.
So you're getting a great opportunity here, an opportunity you've earned over the last couple of years. But going back to the Jerry Forest fight, when you have that draw, it was really hard for you to get a fight. And you and I have talked to times over the years. It always kind of perplexed me why it was so difficult for you and American olympian with only one loss on his resume to get a fight. What have these last kind of couple of years been like in the aftermath of that forest fight.
Yeah, man, it's been hard. You know, it hasn't been easy. You know, my faith has been tested, and you know, my resilience has been tested. But you know, I've always seen to pull through. I've always tried to do my best and anything and everything that I do. But yeah, it hasn't been easy, you know. You know I competed, you know, I was trying to to compete with you know, Martin Bucoli and it was Huey fury on Sky, and uh, they just weren't able to, you know, make it happen. I think they really seen how hard it was for me to also get a fight, because you know, and any promotion that I've been through, been to it's been very difficult. They've always had to do extra things, and I think that that was why I was let go originally from a match room. You know that it was it was hard to make these deals. It was hard to uh get these fights and let them actually line up. They don't really want to get in the ring with me, So I've always needed somebody to push me and put you know, put the money and put put the energy behind me, you know, and you know I've been I fell short. I've been falling short uh with that in my career. So you know, it really has nothing to do with the boxing, but just the boxing business, you know, and which is majority of the boxing now on days.
Yeah, because because you're not you're not boring fighter, like your fights are entertaining, like from cruiser weight to heavyweight. It just always surprised, like could you put your finger on why you know these promoters were not looking to do business with you.
I just think that it has a lot to do with not wanting to do anything different from their farming system on how they collect and how they make money. You know, when I jump in there, unless unless they're totally all in, and you know, they couldn't be Mattroom couldn't be all in with me because they already had a great superstar gold medalist and you know, so these guys like that, you know, Al Hayman, you know, had tons of different fighters and chose, you know, choose who they choose, and you know, so I just think that you know, they see me as you know, a hard person to do business.
You know.
They always try to say that I'm difficult when it comes to business, but really it's difficult to find me fights and difficult to make the fights. I've always you know, obviously I want you know, I want to get paid righteously, but I've always even said it's really not about the money. You know, I'd rather perform and you know, have I would more negotiate on fireworks or laser show or you know, more time on the interest before I argue about money. You know. So I've always tried to make it very easy for the promoters. But I think that is just very difficult unless they're all in with Michael Hunter, and I think they just kind of tiptoe their way in. You know, everything is about social media now, so you know, I'm not the biggest social media star, so that might be another add on to it. So I just think that they think it's a gamble in a sense.
Was there ever a point in the last few years where you just thought it wasn't gonna happen, that that you weren't going to get this kind of opportunity.
Uh No, No, you know, I as a as a young person, I just knew that I always thought I had to just be the best, you know, and that if I could just be the best fighter, then everything else would fall in place. Now I feel like I was a little bit wrong about that, but I never thought that I would not get a chance.
You know.
I just felt like at some point, as long as I stay uh stay to the right and stay perseverance, that my shot will come, you know, as long as I'm ready for it. And uh, you know, I feel like you know, you know, I've always had the hardest battles. You know, anytime I'm in a fight, I'm always I always have to do the most, you know, Like the Prevactive fight, it wasn't it wasn't good enough for me to uh get the draw obviously, you know, I had to get the you know, I had to win and were by knockout pretty much, you know, and manytime, I even with the Pacoli fight, I went in there knowing that even though I beat him on every round from post to post. Uh. I knew if I didn't stop him, that I was gonna get a nail that night, and I wouldn't have been upset, you know. And so anytime that you've ever seen me, you know, have some hard situations, uh Usik fight, I never was. I never was upset about about the outcome because it is what it is. You know, I know that I have those are my opportunities. You know what I'm saying. I have to outclass totally outclass and master class and my my, my learning curve has been a little different from being on that B side and not having so much support. So uh, then somebody like an Usik, you know, you know he's had he hasn't had the easiest route, but you know, he definitely has a lot of people behind him, you know, you know, his mentor a lot mere and vitally you know, right right out the gate, and you know they had people that were there to guide them. You know what I'm saying, I've been kind of a fall by the wayside on the since and you know, try to stay active and continue and you know, I just it's really unfortunate that I haven't had those great opportunities to keep forward.
Which again has always confused me because in America you want heavyweights, you want successful heavyweights. We're watching Jared Anderson to get the backing of top rank right now, as he's being kind of led up the ranks. It always befuddled me that you were getting that kind of interest. You know, people kind of snickered, I think a little bit when you came back at the end of last year. The level of competition you came back again early this year, the level of competition. I remember thinking Mike that it was really smart, in part because I remember I watched Joseph Parker beat Deontay Wilder last year, and Joseph Parker fought a whole bunch of low level fights before he took on, you know, some of the bigger names that eventually Deontay Wilder, and he used those fights to sharpen his edge, to get better, to get you know, to get his rhythm back. Have these last two fights for you helped you get some of that rhythm back.
Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, like I said, we were training for, you know, the huge Fury fight and it fell through a few times. So yeah, definitely, me just getting back in the ring and actually having that live experience definitely gave me an edge, you know, getting these fights and stuff like that. I've always tried to do the best I can to stay busy no matter who manages, what promoter or whatever. I've always tried to stay and try to get the fights. You know, it doesn't matter really who it is, but those were the best fights I could get at the time. And I'm a fighter by nature, so that's you know, that's what I do. You know what I'm saying. I've been doing this since I was a young kid, and you know, when my dad was boxing, so I started very early. And I've been in this game for a long time. And you know, it's like I said, it's really unfortunate. I'm the baddest man on the planet and can compete with anybody, and that's bar none. You know, there's no questions asked about it. And you know, come Friday, we'll see it again.
You know, You've you've got a good fight again coming in front of you with Cash as Cheney, who I've liked a lot over the years. What kind of fight are you expecting here? We've seen Cash show some power in the past. I was at the fight when he knocked that guy out of the ring a few years ago. What kind of fight are you expecting this weekend.
Well, he's a big boy. You know, he's much bigger than me, which is nothing new. He's big and strong. He has a fairly good technique, you know, he's very big. Basic, but being very basic doesn't mean you do the basics super well, you know, So I think that is going to be slightly technical. But with me, obviously, with my tenacity, I think that he's going to have a little problem with that and I think that I get him out of there at some point.
It feels like a lifetime ago that you fought alexand Uzik. In a way, it was you're both cruiserweights at that time, different fighters at that time. But I'm wondering, kind of what were you thinking when you watched a guy that you were competitive with back in twenty seventeen go on and beat Tyson Fury for the undisputed championship.
Well, I was proud of him. You know, it's not easy to get all these things done, and I know he's had to still be disciplined into with all the gypsy tactics that he used postponing these fights and you know, letting making them. Being camped for a long time, sometimes you can overtrained. And I think that it was he. You know, he's just a very disciplined and due diligent guy. So I have to take my hat off to Usik. And you know, I called the fight. I knew that was happened. Tyson Fury's you know, been spotty over the years, and you know, uh, when you have these type of uh you know, backing, they tend to have easier fights and all that. And you know a lot of these fighters, you know, they're losing now, getting knocked out, stopped over here or stopped over there. And I just kind of sucks because I've been watching these and I know, you know what what I'm capable of, so uh it kind of it kind of irks me a little bit because I know I could be in there with any of those guys and and stop them and and you know, make something happen up with myself. So uh, like I said, I have to take my hat off to Usik. It does suck, I guess competitively. That's the only fight I really want, you know, is the Usik fight. And you know I think that, you know, the fight, the fans would would love to see it and need to see it to actually see what Usik really has. You know, he hasn't really been totally tested. I think that Tyson Furry, you know, obviously, being who he is, and you know, having the being the A side and having all the clout and stuff like that, that's also a hard task to get rid of. But if this was something like the UFC and we all had to compete with each other very early, I don't think you would see Usik. I mean, I don't think you would see Tyson Feary much. And you know, all these other guys, Deontay Wilder and all these other guys would have fell off a long time ago. So me, I just have to continue to stay due, diligent, and hopefully I can get these fights, because most of this boxting is business and not really about fighting. So once I get in the ring with these guys, you know, you you'll see my You see me Rain, you.
Know you've got Usik tied up with theory. They're going to fight again in December. AJ is gonna fight probably Daniel Deboat in September. But do you believe that this fight and a win in it will springboard you into those types of fights in either late this year or early next year, I.
Hope, so, you know, you know, it's it's such a business, such a business, you know, we really never know, but definitely will put me in a good position to be talked about and you know, for for my hand to be up there, you know what I'm saying. Obviously it has been like that in the future, but only from inactivity. You know. You know that I've been gone and people have stopped talking about me, but the skills still remain. So you know, I'm I'm hoping for a springboard for sure. I think that DK is going to do his job and to get me where I need to be. I think he wants the belts, especially that wv VA belt, just as bad as I do. And I think he's gonna work hard for me to get it. You know, as long as he keeps putting those guys in front of me, I'm gonna knock them down.
You touched on this briefly, but a rematch with Lusik, how bad do you want it? And how confident are you that a rematch would be different?
Oh, definitely would be different. You know, I've always said this. If you look at the tail of the tape, you could see the difference. You know, I didn't rehydrate, I was I was lower in the night of the fight than the way it ends. So just that alone, it would be much different. You know, we're heavyweights now, we don't have to make a weight. You know, we're both mature and experienced. So I think that it would be a great fight and a great way to test each other's skills.
Well, I'm excited for this fight, Mike. I think you and Cashier Chanin is gonna be a great fight on Friday in South Florida, live on pay per view. Man, good luck, and it's good to have you back, and I hope to see you in bigger fights after this one.
Likewise, thank you Chris Manis for having me. I really appreciate it.
That's it for this week's episode. By thanks to Dan Rayfield for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I'll see you next week.
