Boxing with Chris MannixBoxing with Chris Mannix - Bam the Legend Slayer
Joining Mannix this week is former junior middleweight champion Sergio Mora. Mannix and Mora discuss the latest between Ryan Garcia and Devin Haney, a dangerous fight for Anthony Joshua, a huge showdown between Jesse Rodriguez and Juan Francisco Estrada and more. Later, Rodriguez joins to talk about training as a new father, why the Estrada fight has become personal, a “fantasy fight” with Naoya Inoue, more. #Volume
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This is boxing with Chris Manning o's Somebody Punch Him in the face. Anty Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this dear wise. This a heavy wading posted by Sis Chris MANNINGX.
That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing.
When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris and we are back Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast Network. Want to welcome in everyone that is listening on the podcast feed. If you are not a subscriber, get over the box with Chris Mannix Feed hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this pod in your feed every single week. So I am in Phoenix, Arizona this week, the site of the Juan Francisco Estrada Bam Rodriguez one hundred and fifteen pound title fight. I'll be calling that fight for de own. The man who calls fights with me. Good friend of the podcast, Sergio Mora. He will join me and Sergio and I cover a lot of ground on this show, from the latest fallout with Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia, the recently announced Anthony Joshua Daniel Dubois fight. What is Sergio think of that? Plus bam Astrada, which I think is going to be a fantastic fight. Teofe Malpez fighting this weekend as well. A lot of ground to cover with Sergio Moore a little bit later on Bam Rodriguez two division world champion, the former unified champion at one twelve. He is back at one hundred and fifteen pounds and he's looking to slay another legend. Yes, after beating Carlos Quadras and Srisakats, who are running beside, Bam Rodriguez will take on Gayo Estrada for the WBC belt at one fifteen. I mean, Bam, you know he's all about big fights, and this is strata fight is I think, as big as it gets in the one hundred and fifteen pound weight class. So I talked to Bam about his preparation for this fight, how he's had to prepare as a new father. That's a new wrinkle in the life of Bam Rodriguez. Plus Ikeasha missed it. He sparred with Chocolatito for this fight. What was that like? What did he learn from Chocolatito? Great conversation with Bam Rodriguez. So, as most of you know, this podcast has been part of Colin Cowhard's Volume Sports Family for the last three years. Uh that relationship will end after this. It has been a fantastic partnership and I am incredibly grateful to Colin, to Logan everyone at the Volume who have really helped me grow the show over the last few years. There's no hard feelings here. The Volume is consolidating, putting more emphasis on some of its more mainstream shows, and there are things that I quite frankly want to do with this show, new things, specifically in the video space. But look, working with Colin has been an unequivocally fantastic experience. He is as good as it gets in audio, and it has been a real thrill to be working with him over the last few years. I remember starting the show back in twenty thirteen basically by myself. My first episode generated right around three hundred downloads. Last month we did nearly three hundred thousand. Many months we have cleared five hundred thousand. And you've heard me say this before. This audience is the most loyal in the podcast. I know the boxing audience isn't as big as the NFL the NBA, but I'm sure there are no audiences that are more passionate than this one. So what does this all mean. Well, for you, it means basically nothing. I have one hundred percent ownership of the show, so the show will continue. If you are a subscriber, you will still get the show in your feed, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all the usual pod feeds. I have been talking some other companies over the last few weeks and the interest really has been incredible. I'm hopeful to finalize something possibly in the next few days. We'll see some things to figure out. While I'm figuring that out, in what the next long term home for the show is. I'll continue to produce episodes myself. We may take a week off next week, the fourth of July week while we make the transition, but after that it will be business as usual. So that's it. That's the big announcement again, no changes for you the listener, no need for you to subscribe to a new feed or look for the show somewhere else. I can honestly say, I have more fun doing this show than pretty much anything else that I do, and I'm excited to keep doing it with you guys for many, many years to come. So that's my speech on that, and when we come back my conversation with Sergio Mora. You know, I've never seen someone so upset about leaving a toothbrush at home, but that's what I just experienced.
It's not just a toothbrush. It's a toiletry bag, and it's a boogie toiletry bag as it has my skin products, has my my my teeth, hygiene stuff in VISI line. You don't do it well all of the above. It has it has my regimen in there. I must follow my daily regimen. Not to mention my vitamins. Man, it's something you know nothing about healthy one day, one a day, doesn't I have my full Monday through Friday vitamins, And yeah, I just feel lost without them. I'm kind of OCD with that, so I miss my toll're.
You're OCD in a lot of ways when you travel what I've experienced over the last six years, because to let people know you, you don't let them clean your hotel room in between days and you bring a package of dude wipes to use.
Everyone needs a clean But.
But why don't you let them in the room to clean.
Because I make my own bed, I take out my own trash, and I keep my room clean. I'm a clean I'm a clean man. Like I said, I'm OCD. I'm clean. I like my teeth clean, I like my face clean, I like my clothes iron all that. I do it myself. I wasn't born privileged like you wasn't.
Born privileged, and you're paying for And by the way, it's a bougie guy. You take advantage of other amenities. The hotel cleaning is just another amenity you can take advantage of. Okay, Sergio Mora is here, the former junior middleweight champion to his own broadcaster. We are in Phoenix, Arizona, the site of the d and fifteen pound world title fight Bam Rodriguez going up against Geyo Estrada. It is kind of the old guard against the new guard. We're going to talk about that, but first, Sergio. Last week I kind of broke down the developments in the Ryan Garcia Devin Haney case, with Ryan Garcia being suspended for one year, Devin Haney getting the loss scrubbed office record, So I covered that. But in the last couple of days there's been a lot of talk about the punishment right, and does the punishment for Ryan Garcia fit the crime since, of course Stevenson among others say hey, that's not enough. Before I came here, I was watching an Instagram live with Bill Haney and Ryan Garcia kind of going at it about the testing, the punishment, all that stuff. So you're a former fighter. Is a one year suspension and the forfeiture of a little over a million dollars a acceptable punishment for Ryan Garcia?
Correction former champion, Please don't do that.
I introduced you as former You're in the middlewaight champion all the time.
Don't don't lower my rank.
Uh No.
I think I think the New York Commission actually did the right thing. They got it right. The outcome is exactly what they should have done. It was one year suspension, minimum one year suspension. I mean, I don't care how much money you made one what was it one point three million dollar fine that Ryan Garcia got. That's big money. I don't care how much money you're making. You still have to shell that out. So the fact that you can't fight for a year, all that bad press. The money, I mean, I think I think they got it right. I mean, it couldn't have been more than that. I mean, this is a kid in his prime who won that fight. He won that fight. I mean, he's innocent and true proven guilty two tests. Two tests prove guilty to me. But he's gonna continue saying that he's innocent. So you know he's gonna he's gonna die on that hill. I think the worst thing here Man's aside from the money and the suspension, is the negative publicity that he's getting, the fact that he can never climb back up and get the respect from boxing fans. That's gonna be the main thing That's the thing about cheating in peds because once you decide to cross that line, whether you did it admittedly or not, you're always gonna be branded as a cheater. And if you won that fight like he did against Haney, he punished Haney. Hani's not gonna be the same because of that punishment. So I think a lot of things went wrong for team Haney, for boxing and a lot of fans. I believed in Haney, and I mean Garcia and a lot of Garcia fans. But the reputation, he's never gonna get back. He's never gonna get back that squeaky clean, you know hooks, with the looks, you know, boyish charm, that we got a customer, Ryan Garcia, He's gonna be tainted.
I do think the Devin Haney's never gonna recover stuff is a little bit overblown. It was one tough fight. No, it was one tough fight. Like go back to the nineteen nineties, like guys are in tough fights. Oscar all the time, Oscar de la Hoya was in tough fights. Shane Moseley wasn't tough fights. You were in some tough fights, you know in your day, Like but tough fights happened.
But they all won.
Haney almost won though.
No.
See, look, you get deflated, you get dispirited as a champion. When you're on that big stage. You're the defending champion. You're undefeated. You've never been hurt like that, You've never been you've never been down, you've never been even close to being uh on the losing side. Then all of a sudden, all that happens. You're down multiple times. You do it on the big stage in your home crowd. Was it his hometown, now York. He fought in New York, Okay, on the big stage in front of everybody, in a mega fight, and then he gets beaten, down, embarrassed, and then afterwards, yes, afterwards, he has to face the trauma of social media. He's still getting beaten that ship.
That shit drives me crazy, like the fact that Devin Haney is somehow the villain and all this is ridiculous, Like why are so many people jumping up and down on Devin Haney. People like Devin Haney got his ass kicked, And you're right, he did get his ass kick. But I thought Devin Haney showed more in that loss than he's shown in most of his wins. I mean, he got up what three times? He ate what five big left hooks? Showed me another guy in boxing that's eating a Ryan Garcia left hook and walked away from it. There's not one I thought. Devon showed, showed heart, showed balls, showed a lot of stuff in that fight. I don't get why he has become the villain and there is a faction of people out there just defending Ryan Garcia when he says stuff like there's only a billionth of a gram and you know the supplements I was taking were tainted when you know it was kind of a ham handed approach to getting that stuff, you know, attested. I don't know why Devin is taking the kind of public beating that he is.
Because we're living in crazy times. We're living in you know, who has more followers, That's who's gonna get more respect. Ryan Garcia is more known, he's more you know, you know, celebrated as a as a you know, public figure and celebrity. Devin Haney is respected in boxing. Outside of that, you know, Haini's pretty much you know, you can't compare himself to the popularity of of Ryan Garcia. But I hate the fact that followers creates a following, this colt like following for cheaters or for anyone that's doing wrong. It's kind of like that that Trump effect, like that Donald Trump effect. You know, no matter how many times he gets indicted, how many wives he had, how many baby mama is, how many times he's caught lying in court, people.
Still love him. People still love.
Him because he's charismatic. He's you know, he's Donald Trump, for God's sake, you know. And and and people want to look up to somebody like that, whether whether they have dirt on him or not, they're always going to be able to a massive following. Ryan Garcia has that, he has that following. He has the looks and and it, and it appears to me that the crazier shit that he says.
The more he liked.
I don't like it. I don't like this new generation. You know. I don't want to be that old man, you know, throwing throwing h rocks across the across the pond, or get off my lawn type stuff. But that's me, now, that is me. Get off my lawn man. All these kids that support cheaters, get off my lawn man. Because this is not what we're a customed in sports, not alone, but not just boxing. In sports, Man, it's hard to have heroes nowadays. It's hard to have heroes because anytime we have someone that we invest our time, in our effort, and our money into, they let us down, whether it's with PDS, whether it's with their public personal life or public life, or something goes wrong and they just let us down. Man, it's hard to have heroes nowadays, and social media has a big part of that.
All right, Revered a little bit off track here. The initial question was is the punishment appropriate? Does the punishment fit the crime. One thing that's been exposed in all this is that the lack of continuity, the lack of one commission in place to adjudicate these types of things, is a problem in boxing. Ryan Garcia got a one year suspension back in twenty eighteen. When Canelo Alvarez to positive, he got a six month suspension. Oscar Valdez a few years later got no suspension. You've had fighters like Alicia Baumgardner test positive, nothing happened. Connor Ben spent two years since connor Ben tested positive, nothing has happened up until this point. A major problem in boxing is the lack of oversight from one governing body here because the New York sty Athletic Commission, which is one of the most respected commissions out there and one of the oldest, most experienced. A lot of people involved in that commission that are serious boxing people. I think they did the right thing. I think one year for a first offense is fine. The problem is, if Ryan Garcia had tested positive in Texas, he probably would not be facing this type of punishment. That, to me, Sergio, is a big problem.
That's politics for you. That's a that's you know, different states that you decide to break the law, bend the law, break whatever it is, it's gonna have different different consequences. And uh that's just you know, part of part of living in the United good old United States of America. No matter where you go, you know, rules are going to be different. And in New York they don't mess around. So New York did the right thing. But like you said, if it was any other any other state, it would have been a slap on the hand, and it would have been it would have been even more of a slap in the face for fans. So I'm glad that you know, it happened in New York, and I think the right the right punishment fit here. You know, because Ryan Garcia's taken a lot of shit from the fans, his reputation's ever going to be the same. He took a big seven figure hit in the pocket and he's always gonna be branded.
As shouldn't that money be going to Devin Haney? I mean, do you see Goldenwook I took that money back. As far as I know, Devin has not seen a nickel of it. I mean, Devon is one that took the beating at the hands of Ryan Garcia. I think he should see at least half of that money.
Yeah, that's another thing that's always broken. It doesn't go to the fighter. It goes to the commission, and it goes to the promoters. It's sad man like sometimes. I mean, it's happened to me before coming overweight, taking ten percent of my purse I didn't get you know, it goes to my opponent and promoter.
Oh, the opponent should go to though, Like if you come in and you are a different weight than you're supposed to be, the opponent should get it.
Here's the thing. I made the weight. I made the weight. It is just in California you're not allowed to be over two and a half pounds. It's an automatically twenty percent out of your purse, which is ridiculous. So then why do I have to make the weight anyway? I just come in two and a half our pounds overweight. But then I can whatever. It's not about me. Yeah, different rules, different strokes for different folks.
Well, there should be one commission that decides all these types of punishments. I don't believe it's gonna happen because it's boxing, and I don't seem to give a damn, but the fact that one person can get punished differently in one state as you would be in another is insane. It is absolutely insane. No other major sport has that type of supervision. It's all the NBA, the NFL, the NHL, major League Baseball. They all have a uniform system in place, one governing body, that being the commissioner of that sport. And the fact that box doesn't have it, I think is a big problem Devin has talked about sooner. Ryan Garcia, I understand the frustration Devin Haney has because look, his reputation has taken a hit. He came into that fight as one of the top pound for pound fighters in all the boxing. You exited that fight not one of the top pound for pound fighters in boxing, regardless of what the official outcome of that fight now is. But suing him, Sergio, how do you feel about that?
I think Devon should tread lightly here, because we're still dealing in a macho sport where where if you go chasing you know, hazard pay, you go doing things legally and going behind you know, lawyers and having attorneys talk for you in courts. First of all, it's a big run around. You're gonna waste a lot of time, but you're gonna waste a lot of effort, and you might lose some respectability and fans. I think there's more honor in Devin Haney's saying, you know what, I demand a rematch. Am I gonna demand Hazard pay? I'm not going to demand you pay me for my injuries and my time lost and my my unblemish record that's now gone. I think there's more respect and a lot more money in those big pay per view fights. I mean, that's still a big fight. You gotta respect the fact that Ryan Garcia is still the A side in a rematch. He's still the A side. He's still gonna be the guy that puts butts in seats. It'll be a huge fight on pay per view. Devin Haney should concentrate more on fighting him and demanding a rematch, making sure that everything that he wants on that contract is set. There's a lot of finds that he comes in overweight. Everything should be hedged on his favor in the rematch. But that's what he should be focusing on, not trying to get, you know, a couple of one hundred thousand more out of Ryan Garcia in court. I think that's just a bad look for him. He should be chasing greatness like he was initially before this setback.
The rematch is going to be huge. I don't know what the official pay per view number was for the fight, but yeah, you heard ask de Laoya say it didn't sell very well. You've seen some reports out there under four and two thousand. Whatever the number may be, it is going to be at least double the next time around, and probably close to triple. I think the rematch between Haney and Garcia can do close to a million pay per view buys, because even though the fight itself was exciting the fact that people didn't believe that the fight was going to be exciting is one of the reasons that doesn't sell very well. It doesn't matter how good the fight is in the ring, It matters what people think the fight's going to be in the ring. Now, you go into a rematch in like May or June of twenty twenty five, and you get all this hostility built up between Ryan and Devon. You had an incredible fight that saw Devin get up from three knockdowns, fight his way back in some of these rounds. So much drama, so much suspense, so much bad blood, would be an incredible press tour for that fight. This is a no brainer for Devin Haney to take that fight. And by the way, that's a fight that I think at the right weight and can win. Like, you know, people killed me from my scorecard in that fight. I get it, Like I probably would have scored it rewatching it one round more for Ryan Garcia.
But it was a tough fight to score, man, I would score I will give you ship too. It was a tough fight to score because Hany was winning more rounds. He was, but then those ten eight rounds kind of throw everything in yet and then the deduction, and then you know how bad I am in math. I lost track. All I know is if you count round by round, Hani won more rounds.
I thought he won every round or almost every round. He wasn't hurting right like, and he was hurt in the first round, dropped in three others, so I thought he was he he you.
Know, you know, we give you a lot of ship. But that was a tough, tough fight to score. Yeah, I don't think you got it totally wrong. I don't think you should beat yourself up for it. That was a crazy, crazy fight. That was a crazy fight to score because I gave way more rounds. But then when you have to deduct ten a rounds and deductions, it's a it's a yeah, it's a hendache.
Bottom line, I think Devon should forget about any legal process suing Ryan Garcia and focus on getting back. I don't think Devon lost much of his marketability, at least when it came to his next fight. Like one of the narratives is that he would make more or would have made more for his next fight if he had won the Ryan fight clean, but the next fight's always gonna be Sandro Martin, right, Like, nobody's paying for that. Nobody wants to see Devin Haney against Sandra Martin, at least not someone willing to pay real money. There was one bidder for that fight, and even the guys that bid top rank they knew Devon wasn't going to take the fight like they knew. If they knew he wasn't gonna take a million and a half bucks to take a fight against Sandra Martin, he probably should because I think that's the right right fight for him, and I think a million and a half is not. It's not an embarrassing number, that's for sure, but it was never gonna be a big number Surgery to fight Santa Martin. I think he's doing the right thing in saying I'm gonna move up and wait he wants to fight Mario Barrios. I don't know how makeable that fight is, but it makes some sense to move up to one forty seven, try to get a belt in that weight class. All of a sudden, the Ryan fight might get even bigger because of the title at stake you put yourself in the mix to fight Boots Boots Ennis some point in twenty twenty five as well, I say, Devin forgets one forty up to one forty seven and and make a go of it there.
He wasn't a puncher at one forty.
He's definitely never gonna a punch that wasn't one one thirty five either.
Let me finish. He couldn't take a punch at one forty. He's definitely not gonna be able to take a punch out.
He took region, like you know, we just think Touchdom, well, yeah, because he's really good, like Ryan is one of the biggest pound for pound punchers in boxing.
I think moving up and waits a bad, bad call for it doesn't he doesn't have he doesn't have the size of the chin or or the punch resistance. No, he doesn't have it. Man, he's not he's not a big guy. He's not a big puncher, and he can't take a punch. So no, I think moving up and waits the wrong thing to do.
You don't you don't believe he loses to Mario Barrios. You don't believe that we called Mario Barison.
Mario Barrios was beating tank until tank knocked them out.
Well, anybody beats tank until tank knocks them out. Like, look at the guys he's fought. Everybody has success against tank before they get knocked out.
Look, I think out boxes Ma Mario. But I think Bor's is gonna be a tough fight from Sando Martin is gonna be a tough fight for for Ainy. I think I think all roads leave to to to a disappointment for Devin Aney. So he needs to go straight to a big fight because once you get accustomed to those big paydays, you want the big names. You know, they they're the ones that motivates you. So as as fast as he can probably possibly get to another big name. Yeah, so he's not gonna wait for Garcia, so you get another big name. Barrios is somewhat of a you know name, But.
Yeah, I would fight.
It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough, tough decision.
For him, by the way, Santa Martin Alberta pueilo. That is that's the theatrical equivalent of a straight to DVD fight. That's what it is, like who who wants to see that fight?
Either?
That's that's been a tough fight to sell, regardless of who winds up ultimately putting it on. All right, let's move on, Uh. It was announced this week that Anthony Joshua and Danie Dubois will face off on September twenty first. That was pretty well known in the aftermath of Dui uh knocking out Philip Perkovich, the finest performance of dubois career. Now he moves on and gets a crack at Anthony Joshua. The IBF title is going to be on the line in that fight. Alexander Usik electing to vacate that belt, setting a nice message to AJ Dubois saying happy whatever it's this is my gift to you. You can fight for the IBF title. AJ's on a bit of a hot streak right now, coming off that knockout win over France and Ganho. He's got some good things going with Ben Davison. But Dave Dubois Sergio's got a little bit of momentum here. He beat Jerrel Miller, knocked him out, then he knocks out Philip Perkovic, who at the time kind of a boogeyman in the heavyweight division. How tough a fight is this for Anthony Joshua.
I think er, I'm sorry, I think the Dubois actually had a better run and better momentum in his favor than Anthony Joshua. Joshua's been, you know, kind of carefully maneuvered around some big heavyweights, but they weren't big names. You got to give credit where credit is due. With Triple D, Dubois has been facing the big guys, the guys that are still relevant, you know, the Boogeyman, one of the boogeymen at evyweight that no one wanted to mention an Ergovic, and he's knocking them out. So I just think if he fights it, if he faces when he faces Anthony Joshua, it's gonna be another one of these fights where you're biting your nails with Joshua. You can never be comfortable whenever you're with Anthony Joshua fight. Because we've seen him get broken down with Andrew Luiz, we seen him get out box twice against Usik. He's frail, you know, you gotta, you gotta that's the word. I think he's frail at a lot of people call him, you know, weak minded, that he quit. I don't think he's that. I just think he's been broken down. He's a big man that was accustomed to breaking down fighters, and then he got broken down and he needed to reinvent himself. And this new Joshua is not a killer anymore. He's not a beast unless he gets calculated risks in his you know, as opponents, And I just think Dubois is not a calculator risk. It's it's one that he has to It's a mandatory and Dubois has all the momentum in his favor. I think it's gonna be a very dangerous fight for Anthony Joshua. Big fight. I think it does amazing numbers at Willy. It's gonna be a great fight. But man, I would probably favor Dua in that fight.
I love the resiliency of Dandy Dubois. He gets knocked out by Joe Joyce. People accused him of being a quitter in that fight. He comes back, wins four fights in a row, puts himself in contention for Will Tidle. He faces as in Usk. You know, some people believe there was some controversy there. I don't. But he gets beat pretty badly, eventually knocked out by Usik. He comes back, stops Drell Miller, stops Philip Perkovich, and now he's back on top again. I just love his kind of never say die attitude. I think it's great and I'm happy for.
Him, and it's refreshing minutes. Because he's only twenty six years old.
It's amazing.
He has lots of career. He has a lot of career left, so there's more money to be made with Dubois. He has a longer future, a brighter future, and he's a big, big fighter, so he's gonna make Joshua, who's a monster, actually be the smaller fighter wise, is this new era of gigantic heavyweights. He's just towers of big men, and he fits right in there. And I think that that loss that he had, you know, it's gonna it's only gonna do him better. It's only gonna do him better.
Experience matters.
Joe Joyce was another killer. You know, Joe Joseph is one of these guys that was gonna be next. You know, he's more of an athletic heavyweight, you know, someone that could do a backflip six foot six. You know, you have the Olympic pedigree and Dubois was able to you know, beat him down. So uh, I'm sorry the ball was able to hang with him. So I just think I think was the future right now. And aj had his run, he had a great run.
Well, I don't think his run is over. I mean you watch that fight on the top level. Yeah, it's not over come on. You watch that fight against Fergovic, and he has.
A popularity to still have the big fights. I think he's but to win the big fights. Man, I just think he look, man, I love the age. I think he's great for the sports. He's promotable, he's amazing. Yeah, I even like him when he's a bad guy. So whether he's a good guy saying all the right things are the bad guy. You know. You know I'm always gonna watch Anthony Joshua, But on the big fights, I can never make him the favorite. Just keeping a real I won't make him a favorite against Wilder. I won't make him a favorite against the Bois.
The Wilder that you I'm telling you right now, No, the Wilder you saw the last two fights, you wouldn't make Anthony Joshua a favor against that guy.
It'll probably be a fifty to fifty. That's how vulnerable I see aj Man. I just think he can't take a big punch and wilder. He didn't let his hands go out of all the embarrassment he took from his last fight and his last two fights. Actually, I think he has nothing to lose now, so he's will he has to let them hands go.
But he does let his hands go last time too. He did him on he didn't do it. He threw any of those right hands like the end of the fight through one and why would he throw right hands against aj the same kind of powers coming back at him like he's gun shy. At this point, he's probably done, but that's not the point. I think aj still has something left. I think the partnership with Ben Davison has been really good for him. They obviously click on a mental level. Bend's one of the smarter, you know, young guys in boxing. And I'll tell you this watching the Dubois Herkovic fight back, look credit to Dubois for kind of rallying and being just tireless in that fight. But that first round he ate a lot of right hands. Sergio and right hands from Philip Parkovic are tough right hands from Anthony Joshua are a lot tougher. He's got one of the best straight right hands and all of boxing and put a lot of guys down with those shots. So if Dubois fights the same way against aj, I think he's gonna get knocked out. I do, and I just look, it's a competitive fight. I think it's a fantastic fight. I think the atmosphere in Wembley is gonna be off the hook. But he put a gun to my head. I'm gonna favor Anthony Joshua in this one because I don't think Dubois avoids the right hand as well as he needs to.
It'll be a yeah, it'll be a close fight. I think it'll be a mixed mixed opinions and mix choices that I think it's one of these fights where you have to break down and study how did you react to getting punched. I just think du Wa who is the younger, fresher, bigger, stronger in my opinion, and he can take the better punch. I would favor slightly favored Dubois, but hey, look, come fight night, I might change my mind. It's one of those great fights that you want to watch and that's the reason it's going to do record numbers at WHIMEN. It's an amazing, amazing, incredible matchup and if you promote it, well, yeah, it's one of these fights that everyone's gonna be you know.
Aroin Plus, we've now reached what I think is the official breaking points of AJ against Fury. If AJ gets the win against Dubois, he'll have done this part. If Fury can find a way to beat Usk in December, then spring of twenty twenty five, we will finally get one of the biggest fights in recent heavyweight boxing history in Fury versus AJ. But if either one of them lose Sergio, we might be talking about that fight in the same way right now we're talking about AJ against Wilder, but we're never never going to get it.
We're dealing with heavyweights, man, where one punch can end it. I mean, look it back to the heydays of heavyweight championship boxing, where where Muhammed Ali you wanted to fight Joe Fraser. Joe Fraser gets knocked out by George Foreman, and then you know it's a big round robbin, you know, so you have to fight whoever beats the man, and right now the man is uh sick, but I don't see no one beating him. So popularity still, it is important in boxing. You know, Fury has a big name, Joshua has a big name, Wilder has a big name. But yeah, you're right, the last two fights have been very dispiriting as a fan. He needs to come back and knock someone out.
He's not coming back. I don't think he's coming back.
And then we still got Fury and Joshua and du Bois to hold hold rains in the heavyweight division, hold past the torch.
Yeah, a couple of things. I want to run by you before we get out of here, cha. Cour Stevenson is fighting on July sixth. Afterwards he is going to be a free agency as well known. Top Rank has acknowledged this. The record truitment of Schakor Stevenson, though, is in full swing. When Eddie Hearn was over in the UK, he made some comments about Mattroom's interest in Chikor, pointed out they just signed Bootsennis and took some shots a Top Rank and said that Chakor had not been promoted properly up until this point. I would disagree with that. I think Top Rank's done a pretty good job. They pay him well, and look, you fight the guys that are willing to fight you. Chikor has chased big fights for the last couple of years, whether it's get against Lomachenko, Devin Haney, those have not come to fruition just yet. But if you were advising Chaquor Stevenson in what is going to be a pretty big decision with his career after this July sixth fight, If you were advising him, what would you tell him to do? What path would you tell him to take?
Well, it only has two paths. I mean Golden Boy, which is a West Coast, a West Coast predominantly Latino promotional company. I mean even though Shechakur is half Latino, I believe black and Latino. I think he's gonna he has to earn hern. I think you know what Eddie Hearn has done rolling out the red carpet for a Boots Ennis and rolls out red carpets and big events, and you know, like he did for Canelo and all the stars, he puts them up in big venues, He takes them to their hometown crowd, he sells out arenas, and he does the right promotion as far as like social media. He's always doing the social media. You know, he's a young promoter. You know, Eddie Hearn, he gets it. Eddie Hearn gets it. He pays as well extremely fighters, extremely well, and he puts them wherever the fight is gonna sell it its best. So I just think, you know, it makes it makes perfect sense for Shaquur Stevenson to actually, you know, earn with Hern. I think Mattroom is the way to go.
I think she cor should sign nothing longer than a two fight deal with whomever he signs with. And I don't look I think Mattroom has some options for him at one five, and but I think he looks around and asks what promoter can give him the big fights, and I think it's more than just Golden Boy and Matchroom. Like my first call if I was advising Schaquorr Stevenson, these calls have probably already been made, but my first call would be to Al Hayman and PBC and say, what would it take. What kind of deal can you offer to make Chaquure Stephenson against Tank Davis, Because that is the biggest fight that you can make at one thirty five two towers at that weight class. Shaqour one of the great defensive fighters of this generation, Tank Davis one of the great offensive fighters of this generation. Meeting in the middle of the ring for one hundred and thirty five pounds supremacy, Well, that would be the first call I would make. The second call would be back to Bob Aarum And that's top rank. Look, we've had a long relationship. You have got Lesay Lomachenko. He has got a world title. We've talked about me versus Loma all the time. Loma one of the most decorated amateurs in boxing history, a former Olympics.
Here match. Let me just let me just cut you off there. Hear what you're saying, and and and I'm happy that you're on the shore Court train because he's a total.
Box I've been on the train since the great there.
But you're thinking as a fan and and and someone that's been on that train, and you respect them for for his sniper lead to boxing abilities. But he's not a fan friendly fighter. And I already told you in the last podcast that he's not gonna put butts in seats. I think top rank he ran his course at a top rank. I don't think even if he goes back over there and tries to barter with him, I don't think they're gonna they don't have anything for him anymore.
Yes they do. They've got to toney wise.
Money wise, they're not gonna pay. They're not gonna Yeah, they're not gonna put up the pay per view or the money to put up those fights. So I think top rank, that's that's not gonna happen. And and with a match room, I think the money will be there, the dates will be there, but I don't think the opponents will be there. So Shakua's a choice to make becaues he want to fight for titles which he's had already in two divisions, or does he want to make the big money and try to get the most eyeballs on him at this point of his career. And I think's then choose the letter. I think he choose the money thing busy and uh, who can put me on the on the on the right TV date where where people are going to be watching? I think that's a it's an old brainer for me. If I'm if I'm sure Corte Stephenson an he hearns a way to go.
Oh, look, you signed with Mattrum and at one thirty five you could have a fight against Williams of Paida, which is a big fight. Uh, it would only be one title on the line for coor he may not be all that interested in that. I mean once that fight, he you know, he's got Liam Paro now one hundred and forty pounds sch core could become what is it, the three division world title holders, so he have some options there as well. I just think you gotta chase Tank and you gotta chase Loma. To me, those are the two biggest fights you can make if you're Schaquare Stevenson. Legacy defining fights, title unification fights.
Don't waste time chasing a fight that signed a pan at different spots. I think Loman Chink is gonna end the fighting Tank. You know, maybe there's been some chat and I told you that our last podcast too, and you said, no, I believe, And then all of a sudden, it's like people who listen to your podcast and listen to what I say, and then that's when they run off because I called that fight. I said Tank should be fighting Loma, and you try to say how know it wasn't gonna happen. Now everyone has that fight in their mind because it's in their mind, but it's so intriguing, you know, to South Pauls boxer versus an a lethal puncher. You know, we need Jervonte to finally face a champion, you know, a legitimate champion, and we got a legend. Forget a champion, we got a Hall of Fame legend that he could put on his resume. So he wasted so much time. You know, he's almost thirty years old, if not thirty already November. He's finally gonna face a champion, a legitimate, well known Hall of famer, and it's going to be high tech loman Chenko. I'm buying. I'm so that's against it, Surge you.
I think it's a very difficult fight to make, though with top rank involved. I don't think it's as easy as hey. We can do. Look, I've been on record, I think that Tank fights is Sak Cruz. If Cruz wins on August third, I think to do a rematch is been talk of that. You know, he can move up to one forty fight for the title. A whole bunch of possibilities there, and I think Shakurt Loma wind up meeting each other. I think that's the fight that's probably gonna happen before the end of the year. But look either way, Sergio, I don't sign a long term deal. If I'm skor like, long term deals are not for a guy of his qualifications.
Well, that's gonna be a problem with the matchroom because we already heard Eddie Hearn say on records longer than three fights. Yeah, but least at least one year though a one year deal, because yeah, look at what Devin Haney was doing. You know, he was bouncing from promoter promoting. That's right, successfull, He made a lot of money. He did what he had to do. But now that he lost, and and and Eddie Hearn is like, hey, listen, we're not going to bid on this because you're not my fighter. That's when it turns against you. That's when not having a promoter turns against you. Is the fact that you know, when these first bits happen, you have no one that's gonna bid. In your face, you're not gonna make that real money.
Because a one fight, nobody's gonna do a one fight. Sander Martiz Devin Hainey.
So being a free agent has worked great for someone like Devin Haney, but now that he needs a promoter, he doesn't really have one. So I think so course, Stevens Stevenson, it'll be right if he can actually, you know, sign a one year deal with a two fight minimum and go from there. Yeah.
Well, we're kind of on the same wavelength there. I mean, Matt Treu might ask for three, but two would be fine. You do one fight and then you look for another big fight, and then you see where you all land. All right, Speaking of top rank, they have a show this weekend down in Miami headlined by Tafimo Lopez, one hundred and forty pound champion. He is fighting Steve Colaguett, who our pal Corey Erdman, who's calling the fight with us that I'm sure is very familiar with one of the best boxers in all of Canada, Sergio. But he is a massive underdog in this fight. It's not a great fight, it's not a great card, but ta Fimo was kind of a man without a ton of options. Right now, he's one hundred and forty pound champion, but if you look at round at the other world, champions. You've got Liam Paro over at Matchroom, is sak Cruz fighting with PBC. We're gonna have a new champion with the WBC when Alberta Puelo and Sandra Martin ultimately fight Shaquor. Not looking to fight him right now. At one forty, Dave Femo has come out and said, I just want to be active now, and I think that's the right attitude. I think if you're not getting the big fights right away at this stage of his career, inactivity is the killer. I think being active is the right thing to do. So if he beats Steve Klagett in the same way that most people believe he's gonna beat him, he should come back in like September and maybe again in December, like get three fights in this year and build some momentum towards a big fight in twenty twenty five.
No, look, I give a lot of credit to uh to Teo Femo for this, because look, he got accustom to the big fights with Vasilly, Loan Chainko and Josh Taylor. But you know, whenever you're getting those big fights, they're not They're not gonna be that often those paydays, so they're gonna, they're gonna they're gonna get be two big fights for two big paydays that you get accustomed to. And he's winning these fights. I mean, he's undisputed in two weight classes. This dude's a Hall of Famer already.
The undisputed in two weight classes, says you, he isn't he beat Josh Taylor with Taylor at one belt. This is a fact.
I think his resume is incredible for a twenty six it is incredible. I mean the fact that he's okay, a Hall of Fame resume okay already. I mean, it's it's incredible what he's doing. Anyway, whenever you're doing that, you demand big money and you demand the big fights, and you're not always gonna get that. You're not gonna stay active, so you're gonna have to risk activity for the big fights, the big purses. I love it when a big name that's accustomed to having those those those big nights, those big purses, actually take it back a notch and be like, nah, man, I just want to say, sharp, I want to stay active. I want to be in the limelight because in the long run, and there is a long run for TiO femo. Like I said, he's in his mid twenties. He just needs to be knocking out guy on television. People watching him. His name says, his name stays red hot, and then he when and then when that opportunity comes with the big names and the stars aligned, that's when he's gonna be read hot and ready. Activity is key in this sport, and I just think whenever you're dealing with a big name that stays active, like Oscar de la Hoya says of his fighters, you know, activity matters, and Oscar de Laoya is proof of that. You stay sharp, you stay a star, and he's stay in people's minds. That is excellent news from TiO Femal Lopez.
Hey, and Oscar fought what Wants five times in one year as a world champion. Look, the click fight is not going to be good. I'm looking down at Cligates box.
Wreck, who cares Femal is gonna be good?
I don't look I agree with you on that one. He has a loss to Chris finn Heerd and that was back in twenty sixteen. Then my man Danny O'Connor Pride of Boston, he lost to him in twenty eighteen, lost to Ulysses Junior lost to Matthew Jermain Like this, this is not gonna go well.
People will forget Steve Kleggett.
Right, but this will be the second fight of twenty twenty four for Taffimo. Fought Jamain or Tees and look, Jermaine. That kind of style is always gonna frustrate Taffimo. We saw it with Sander Martin, we saw it with Jamaine Ortez. But he gets a win there. If he gets another one, that's two wins in twenty twenty four, with the opportunity to get two more this year. I think that's a great year for Ta Femo Lopez. Not a fulfilling one probably for him, but he can make a little bit of money, he can stay active, and all of a sudden he is set up for a big year in twenty twenty five. I think the idea of staying active is the absolute right one for Ta Femo.
Yes it is, and I think he's you know, you got to applaud the young man for doing that, you know. So yeah, I'm on the same boat right now, and you know, a big twenty twenty five it's there for him. He's in a loaded division, So just stay active while these other guys are waiting for the for the big name in the big fights, You're gonna be at the top of that list because I still think at one forty he's the man to beat.
All right, speaking of inactivity and speaking of big fights, we are calling a big one this weekend at the Footprint Center right across the street from where we are right now. Bam Rodriguez moving back up to one hundred and fifteen pounds to challenge Gio Estrada for the belt that Bam vacated and Gio kind of won back. It's a little bit convoluted because Guyo at one point was the franchise champion with the WBC shout out Mauricio Suliman for the franchise championship, but he is now the one hundred and fifteen pound champion after beating Chuck Latito Gonzalez back in December of twenty twenty two. That was Estrada's last fight. Sergio he has not fought in what is it about a year and a half right now. Meanwhile, Bam Rodriguez, he has been active. His last win came in December against Sunny Edwards, one of the best performances of his career. I love everything about this fight. It is the old guard in jan Francisco Estrada against the new guard in Bam Rodriguez. A chance for one of the great legends in the flyway super flyweight weight classes to pick up one more win, or a chance for Bam Rodriguez to knock off another legend. Like look at the guys BAM has knocked off over the last few years, Carlos Quadras, Srisa, Katzow Wrung beside. Now he gets one Francisco Strada. What's interesting to me, Sergio, is that BAM is a huge favorite in this fight. Look at some of the odds, like BAM is a big favorite coming into this fight. Do you think Vegas knows something that we don't. Do you think he should be this big a favorite against Estrada?
No way, Jose on this uh in this case, no way, Juan front No, No, he should not. I think Gaio should be. I mean, yes, BAM should be a slight favorite, but it should be sort of a pick 'em type fight, you know, like a one you know, minus one ten, minus one twenty at most. Yeah, Vegas, I don't know what they know, but they don't know. Gayo Estrada, this is a man who's never been knocked out. I mean, this is a man that's been lineal. He's a naturally bigger fighter. You know, he started his career, you know, at one twelve. Bam started his career at one oh five. You know, so naturally the size is gonna be bigger with Estrata. He's fought the you know, the legends. He's been in front of the goats, you know, the harder punchers. He's being the bigger punchers, and he's avenged every loss on his resume. This is a man that's resilient, stronger, bigger, and watching both their fights, he has a better job. You know, this is a type of fight where it comes down to jab. It's not you know, we know that both these guys can actually get down and fight if they have to. But but Bam is more of a boxer, and he pauses jab when the southball stands. He doesn't really try to sting you with it or set up you know, big power jabs or break you down with the jab. Estrada tries to really you know, set big shots up with a big jab, and he's an excellent body puncher, so is Bam. So this is gonna be a fight where you know who has a better job. I think that's gonna be a guy a Strata, but the body punch is gonna be with Bam Rodriguez. Now Bam is known for his angles, you know, and you can't catch those angles. You can't flank your opponent unless you're flat footed or staying in front of you. Guyostrada doesn't stand in front of opponents. He's good off the back foot, so he's good with the jab, good off the backfoot. He has the experience. Now those are all the good things you mentioned the bad things, of course, mister pessimistic. Yes, he's thirty four years old. Yes, he's been out of the ring for a year and a half. I think he's thirty four.
Thirty, Keep going off.
Okay, Look he's in his mid thirties. He's been out of the ring a year and a half. And you cannot be doing that in a in a weight division where you're you're already past your prime at thirty three. So he's already passed his prime. These little guys that you know, they don't age well. So yes, all the cons are against him. All the negativity is against Guio Estrada. But he's never been knocked out.
Thirty four, got it right, he's thirty five.
So look, he's never been knocked out, and he's avenged every loss, so he can carry himself like an unbeaten fighter. And the fact that he's a champion at one fit, he's walking into the ring as a champion. He has the confidence of the champion, and the fact that he can't he can say that he has a better resume than Bam Rodriguez, even though Bam had an amazing twenty twenty three. I think he should have been Fighter of the Year. That's another thing. And he has a chance to knock off another of another king of the four Kings. It's incredible, man, It's it's an incredible matchup. And every great fighter has one great fight left. Have you seen the last great fight of of Estrada. I don't think we have. I don't think we have because that Troko Latito was in his great fight. Because this is such a close fights. The decision a lot of people thought one. So he hasn't had that last great moment, the last hurrah of every great fighter's career. I think we're gonna we might see it on Saturday.
He I agree with everything you said there. He has the better resume than Bam. I mean, look, Bam has a win over Quadrius, but Estrada's win came when Quadrius was at his prime, right.
And one more thing before I forget it. Okaya has a better chin because Bam had his chin broken, you know, but he still went the But you can never rely on on something that's been broken. Now's now, it's there. Gyo has the better chin, so I just want to throw it on there.
But I also don't think Gayo has the punching power of Chocolat Tito or like So rung Visaies two of the guys that were his peers at that time, does have the better resume. You know, you mentioned he avenged every defeat quadrus soor rung Visaill somebody beats him, he beat him back two of you know, whatever you think of the scoring in those fights, he has two wins over Gonzales. And they weren't robberies, right like, they were competitive fights that could have gone either way. They went Astrata's way over the last couple of times. I just worry about his age and the fact that he hasn't looked great in some of his recent fights. He is going to be off for a year and a half. The two fights he had against Chocolatito, he started off great. He won those early rounds, and the reason Chocolatito made a fight out of it at the end is because he got back into it over the final five or six rounds and made it ultra competitive. And that's against an older version of Chocolatito. I don't think Estrada is going to have the same success in the early rounds against Bam Rodrigaez. I think Bam Rodriguez, just like he did with sor Rungvisai, is going to be there and cracking them. And look, I think sir Rungbasi, even though they're different fighters, it's a decent comparison. Both these guys, Sirungbasai and Estrada were in their mid thirties when they faced Bam Rodriguez. Both these guys were coming off long layoffs. Both these guys were lesser versions of themselves. I don't know, Sergio. I think this is a great opportunity for Bam to have another Streets of Cats sor rungviside type performance.
Great opportunity, terrible comparison. You're dealing with. Sirungbas I was a heavy handed, flat footed salpau you know, against a fleet footed, you know, counterpuncher, great fighter in Guyoastrada. So the example, No, stylistically, no, you're wrong, because there's more speed coming from Estrada. There's more you know, precision, you know he has ah. He punches at a higher accuracy.
I think speeds what it used to be.
It doesn't matter. Still, it's still the timings there, the timing that that Estrada brings to the table. So when you lose a little bit of speed because of age, you gain it an experience and and in timing you know, and needs an excellent counterpuncher. So you know, the job, the counter punching, the experience. That's Look, all this, all this involved. But I'm still not going to favor Guystrata. I mean, I favor Bam in this fight because I'm always gonna favor the better boxer. But is he really the better counterpuncher? The better you know, he might be more more of the slick boxer, especially from the southball stands, but overall for twelve rounds. I would say Estrada is probably the more experienced, you know boxer in this fight against the bigger name.
Experience it's going to be. It's such a great bam Is gets cooking in these later rounds, like it knocks out to rung beside. What was the ninth round of that fight, beat up on quadris all throughout the later rounds of that fight, fought through a broken jog. It's Christian goan Zales and won that fight like he's his motor keeps running. That's what happens when you're twenty three years old and you can do it. His motor runs like Estratas did you know eleven years earlier. Uh, the body's gonna be key, and I'm gonna talk about this on his own on Saturday.
Body's gonna be key for Bam. Jab is gonna be.
I think Gyo, You're right. Gyo is excellent on the move, can fight up the back foot, but when Chocolatito got to him, it's when he made him stationary. A lot of that was the body work of Chocolate Tito in that fight. I was think Bam being a southpaw matters here like guy who's fought a lot, faced a lot of South Pau's his career, but not a lot in like last seven eight years.
We're gonna find out, Manx. But you know, I'm gonna tell you why I don't think this is that that's gonna be an issue is because Bam doesn't use a Southpaw from the south paw, I mean a Southpaw jab. He pauses jab. If he had a if he had a sniper type jab, or a pecking jab, or a or a Whittaker type jet. Well, maybe not Whitaker because Whittger had one of the great greatest jabs as a softball, But if he had a jab where like a Loman Chankle jab, I mean you see Loman Chankle and Bam have. Bam has similarities to Loman Chinkle with the full work the angles of softball, but neither of them really use their jab. They paw it to land straight left hands and then hooks, get an angle and then body where they really the job because of the smaller normally the smaller, shorter guys punching up, So a jab's gonna work in their favor against them, uh, in their favor. So yeah, That's the reason I think Estrata can actually give him issues because he's not gonna let him get those angles because he could fight on the back foot and the jab's gonna be an issue for Bam to to flank him from the side.
I think if Strada loses some of those early rounds though, like we could see a stoppage similar like we saw with so Runsaga Soarun fight was on his feet at the end, the referee to stepped in because Bam, you know, just teed off on him against the ropes. I could see something similar because we did see against Jouk Latito Estrada kind of lay on the ropes at the end there. He couldn't move as well as he did in the first few rounds. You do that against Bam. He's too young, too strong. I don't think the size is a big issue here. Like, yeah, Bam was fighting at lower weight classes early in his career, but he's a young guy who's growing fast, right, Like he is growing really fast. I think they're gonna be equal in terms of size when they get in the ring. One last thing for you on this fight, Like the biggest fight to me in the lower weight classes is Bam Rodriguez Noe in a way, the bad is the biggest fight to me, without question in your mind. If Bam can beat Astrata, which is not a sure thing, this is going to be a good fight and a tough fight. But if he gets past Estrata, how far away do you think he is from taking on the monster.
Bam is a monster and he is a monster chaser. He goes for the big name, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's maybe one or two fights at most, and he will travel all the way to the monster's backyard to get that fight. Makes you will get paid, No, not only get paid, but it's a makeable fight. He's with Tychan, you know, he's co promoted with a Jabanese promoter, So yes, I think he's willing to They're willing to do a team Bam Rodriguez and Robert Garcia. They're willing to go all the way to Japan to fight the Monster in the monsters backyards because that's the type of champion they are. Mega fight, huge fight, and I really would love to see it happen. But first things first, don't bite off more than you can chew. You got a guy in front.
Of you, No, and understand this. I believe this is a two fight deal for Bam and Estrada. My understanding is they fight now and they're scheduled to fight again in November December.
Yes, so they're expecting a rematch.
They're expecting a rematch. Wow, Like I think both guys have kind of a rematch clause like this is gonna happen, I think again in December of this year. So you give Bam two fights at one point fifteen, and if he gets through both of them, then maybe you move up to one eighteen. Three of the four champions surgery at one eighteen are Japanese, so you could go over there and bring one of them over here do a fight at one eighteen. All of a sudden, you're only separated by one weight class from in a way and in a way, people talk about him at one twenty six. What the hell is he gonna do? Rafael Espinoza, Like, is there.
Any money fight?
What's it like that one twenty six is not a sexy weight class right now? I think in a way should and will stay at one twenty two for a while, wait for Bam Rodriguez to progress middle of next year, summer twenty twenty five, if BAM is successful, we're gonna be talking about BAM against in a way I promise you that.
No I know, I know we are in at I can imagine that fight in the Tokyo Dome, you know where there's history over there, you know, with with Tyson and Douglas and the fans out there, you know they're getting more rabid with boxing. And we got a huge star in Ohiya. In a way, not only in Japan, around the world, this man is if you're a boxing fan around the world, he is the goods and pound for pound top material.
I will say this though, Sergio, I think I think it's probably in Japan. It has to be, maybe doesn't have to have to be. There's a lot of money in Japan.
If you're in Vegas, right, je je Japan.
Vegas would put up a lot of money and be a low lot of Japanese wealth coming over to gamble in Vegas, and a lot there'd be a lot of interest from Vegas in putting on that type of fight. That might be the one fight that could lure in a way back Stateside. We know much money he makes over there, but there's a lot of money being made here too.
Yeah, but I really want to go to Japan.
Get out of here and when we come back. My conversation with Bam Rodriguez. All right, Bam Rodriguez is here, one hundred and twelve pound champion, one hundred and fifteen pound champion, and most importantly, new father. Now how's that feel, Bam?
It's amazing, man. I mean, I accomplished a lot in boxing, but having my daughter nothing toughs that, to be honest. That's that's the bigger accomplishment I've ever had my whole life. I just I love being around her, I love holding her. I never imagine fatherhood being this great, but it was the greatest thing giver, Like my dad. My dad used to tell me, like having a kid changes you, and it honestly did. So I just I'm trying to become a better person overall for her to have a good role model to look up to. So I'm just happy overall. And I'm just I mean, I love life right now. So I'm blessed.
So it's it's one thing to have a kid, which is an event in and of itself. You or your girl had a baby, while you're preparing for a fight basically, right, Like, how has the balance been of training versus being a dad?
It hasn't been as hard as I thought it would be. My daughter, she was born in April fifth. I had like two weeks to spend with her and then I had to start training.
That was that was a bit hard.
But my girlfriend, she she stepped up to the play and took over, so I'm very thankful for her as well. But then I left her for a week. I went to camp to Riverside. I spent a week alone and it was hard being away from her. Facetiming her wasn't the same. So I flew them out for three weeks. And the only reason they went back was because my daughter had a check up, too much check up, so she went back. But if it wasn't for that, she would have stayed the whole camp, and I had no problem with it. I would at the gym, I would finish up, and I would have something to look forward to. So it was great. If I could have had her there the whole camp, I would have. But she had a check up.
So some people, so you kind of answer this, but some people like having family around, think it's motivating for them. Some people don't. Some people like I just want to be alone. You seem like you're more the former than the latter.
Yeah, I mean, I've seen people talk about they don't like having their kids around. But maybe it's just because she's a baby right now, I don't have to do as much for her. She don't run around or anything yet, so I mean I can't really speak on the age like four or five or even three. She's still a baby, so it's not as hard. But I mean, if I mean, I guess, well, I'll find out one day when she's that age, but as of right now, I just love having her around.
Does it give you a little extra juice knowing you're fighting not just for you, but fighting for somebody else in your family.
Definitely. This is the most motivated I've ever been with the Sunny fight. I thought I was motivated with the baby on the way, but to actually hold her and have her around and just know that I have to provide for her, this is the kind of fight that I want to win, and you know, work my way up. Winning this fight would only bring bigger fights, and that's just better for her. So that's what it's all about at the end of.
The day, the Sunny fight I thought was the best performance of your career against a highly skilled fellow champion, and not only did you out box him, you stopped him towards the end. Like, did you feel like from the outside looked like the best from your perspective? Was that the best performance of your career to date? Uh?
Definitely, it was the best performance of my career. Like Roberts said earlier, my coach, the better the fighter, the better I perform. So as far as the best I can give, I don't believe that was the best. But in that moment, that was the best Estrata. I feel like he's gonna bring out just a whole different animal, a whole different Berardiz and I'm be in. Ever since that Sunny fight, I've had a lot more confidence in the gym and sparring. I've just I feel like I've become a whole better fighter since then. So I'm excited to go out there and show people what I've been working on Saturday Night.
You know, you are now fighting the third great from a previous era. You beat Carlos Quadris, you knocked out Teresa Catsel, rung beside. Now you get want Francisco Estrada. Is it at all like I'm guessing you watch these guys like fight each other when you were growing up, Like, is it at all surreal? Like just strange to kind of be in the ring, you know, with another guy of that era.
Yeah, definitely. When I fought Quadras, since it was such a short notice the first round, I was like, oh shit, like I'm really fighting Quadras right now. Because I mean, like you said, I grew up, I wasn't even I was still an amateur at the time. So I was like down, like this is crazy. But I had to come. I had to overcome that and just take it as any other fight. But after that, when I said inside the ring we rung with say and even sparring talk about people, I just it was I feel like it was just part of the plan, part of the you know, part of my career for it too. It was just a matter of time, I believe.
When did this the idea of this fight kind of pop on your radar because you were at one fifteen you elected to drop down to one twelve, in part because your brother was campaigning. Yeah, at one fifteen, when did you start thinking about, all right, I want one Francisco Estrada.
There was a few comments he had made my wins against Quads and Runga side. He kind of discredited him a bit. So ever since then, I kind of wanted to fight. But then I got the opportunity to fight for the title at one twelve, and then Sunny started talking, so I was like, all right, well, I'm gonna just take care of this at one tweve because the original plan was just to get the belt and then go back up. I mean, I let Sunny say all that and not fight him. So we stayed at want to for a bit. But even then, I mean, y'all, y'all heard it in the corner. Even for the fight when I fought Sunny, Robert was in the corner like guy was here. You know, we're gonna call him out after. So it's been on the radar for a bit.
Now you know this, this you know, sort of dynamic with Estrata has become feels like a little bit personal for you in that you believe n Estrada would probably admit this that he's diminished some of your performances in the past, saying well, he beat Quadrus, but Quadris wasn't what he was when I beat him. Well, he beat sor Rung Beside, but that was a different version of So Rung Beside, why have you taken that as personally as you have, just because.
I mean that's not the truth. Really, there are still great fighters, there are fighters that I was put up. I mean I fought Quadras on five days notice. Yeah, so I mean I'm not going to pass that opportunity up. And I performed well, So I don't know why he would discredit that on a five day notice. And then when I thought Rung beside, Rung Viside is still the last thing. They's like they say, the last thing to go is a power. So for me to go out there and I'll box them the way I did says a lot about me. And for him to discredit that, mmm, like a little chip on my shoulder. But it is what it is. Saturday night, he'll find out.
Yeah, I thought Rung Beside was going to retire after you beat him. He's then he spent. He just got back out there was like, screw it, I'm gonna go back home and fight like.
He's been winning too.
It's crazy. It's It's kind of how boxing goes. I guess when you think of the challenge the quadrus was and the challenge to Rung beside was, is this an even bigger one for you fighting Estrata?
Definitely? I feel like Estrada has been the best I won fifteen for a while, but chocolat Tito was definitely up there as well. I mean I didn't watch the second fight between Chocolatito and Estrada, but many said that Chacolito won that fight.
I thought it went his way. Yeah, and then in.
The last fight, I believe Estrada won, but Charlola Tito he picked it up, you know, towards the end. But I mean, as far as the challenge is for this fight, I feel like this is the biggest challenge in my career. Like I said, he's one of the best that won fifteen, if not the best. He's been on the pound for pound before. So I mean this is just a huge fight overall. Stepping inside the ring with a legend, it's a it's a blessing and it's a it's an honor.
You know, you mentioned Chocolatito and you turned a lot of heads, you know, last couple of months with that footage that was out there of you sparring with Chocolatito. Was that the first time you've ever sparred with him?
Yeah, it was the first time.
How did it kind of happen? Tell me how it sort of came about? Because he's obviously training for his fight coming up in July.
To be honest, I don't know. I was in the gym one day and Robert told me that I was in a spark, right. I didn't think anything of it. I didn't really think it was gonna, you know, actually come through. But the day came and I saw him warming up, and I was like, all right, like this as far as oh, I believe he's fighting a guy that likes to switch stanches. So I guess Paul work or if Robert hit them up for some work. I'm not sure, but I mean, I'm just it was a honor to share.
What was it?
Like?
I mean, do you when you share the ring with him, and I think you said you did three times eight minut eight rounds each time, like you get a good number of rounds with him, do you you able to kind of see what makes him special when you're sparring with him like that.
Yeah, first baring, I was on the inside with him, trying to hit him, and these shots I usually like land on anybody else, but he was either out the way or blocking countering me. Saw Like damn. Like his inside game, it's one of the best.
His defense I've always thought is one of the more underrated parts of his game because he catches a lot of those punches. You might be throwing some at him, but he's knocking them away. It's not get into his head at the time.
Yeah, I mean I found that out on like the first round. I was like, damn, Like it's the real deal. His inside game is one of the best.
Does that make you feel like you're as prepared as you possibly can be? I know you said to me earlier that you didn't talk to him much about Estrada and like Stratchy and you're very different fighters anyway, Yeah, fight differently regardless, But does does does that give you kind of an extra extra boost? Like does this make you feel like you're the most prepared you possibly can be for a fight?
Yeah, not only with that sparing, but with the spar and I got in Roberts Jim as well. I sparred he's opening the oone broadcast. He's a very great fighter. He his style is very similar to Estrada. So just overall was a great camp. Like I said, I had my baby girl with me for three weeks, so that was even more motivating than ever I have. This is a huge opportunity, a huge fight, So I mean I just I gave it all. I gave it more than ever and than any other training camp, and I'm just ready to go.
You know you you looked like you were not struggling. Guess the right word. Cutting to one twelve was tough. Getting down to one twelve? How different is it with these extra three pounds prepairing?
It was more comforting when I was in camp. I didn't have to I mean, I have I ass snacks here and there at one twelve, I couldn't do that, but snacks as in like peanuts and like that. Nothing crazy, not like no chips. But it was more comforting, more relaxing on my mind. I didn't have to stress as much about the weight. And even now cutting weight, I'm like a pound aweigh two pounds a weigh, so it's very easy. Well, I mean it's not.
It's not easy. It's still a little hard, never easy.
Yeah, it's never cutting weight, but it's not as it's not as hard as one twelve. So I feel great.
So you cleared the path for your brother to fight at one fifteen. He retired after that loss. Toyoka is now are you now looking at one fifteen saying I want to clean out this division? Is this that's sort of your priority?
Now?
Yeah, I do want to go undisputed, but I don't want to. I don't want to be at one fifteen, you know, for a long time either. If the fights present themselves and okay, that's fine, I'll take them. But I do have a rematch close with Destrata, so that's afire already right there, and then hopefully get the winner of Aoka Martinez. But like I've been saying, one hundred percent focused on this fight. This is the fight that's presented to me right now. Saturday night is all that it's on my mind. So I'm just looking to get south away.
The rematch clause. Interesting was whose idea was that to to make this kind of a two fight deal between you and Estrata.
Oh, I'm not sure. I think it's just on his end to be honest, it's it's just a rematch for him.
Yeah, you know, you and I kind of talked to this already during the week, but like, if you're getting the job done in the ring, you're not gonna be able to shut me up about you and it away, Like I'm I'm not going to stop talking about because it's the biggest fight at these lower weight classes. You are becoming a big star. At one fifteen I was we were talking about sha cour Stevenson is now mentioning like how great you were, how strong you were from sparring like a decade ago, So like you're you're starting to make a pretty big name for yourself in a way. Of course, is arguably number one pound for pound, huge star over in Japan. You're focused on the Strada. I'm not saying anything, but in the last like year or so, as you've kind of built a name and built a resume, is he you kind of looked at him kind of in the distance, being like, you know, maybe maybe down the line.
Yeah, definitely. I Mean we've talked about it plenty of times, me and Robert. We know it's just right now a fantasy fight, but I feel like I'm not gonna be at one fifteen for like a very long time, so move up to one eighteen. I know there's a business to handle up there as well, but as of right now, it's just a fantasy fight. It is a fight that I would love down the line years from now in Japan that would be huge. So that's something that would, you know, interest me.
You could become a massive star in Japan in the next year with all the title holders at one eighteen, and of course in a way at one two, you know, you're already kind of becoming sort of a legend slayer over in the US, Like go to Japan, start beating their top guys all of a sudden, that's a whole different continent that you're a big star.
I mean, I love Japan. I love going over there and visiting. So for me to fight out there and become a star, that would just it would mean lots of me, just to have those Japanese fans, you know, support me. It would mean a lot.
But you'll never fight Chocoltito. You've made that clear too friendly to his co promotional issue as well. But what's like the biggest reason why it's not gonna happen.
I mean, there's just too much respect. I feel like we wouldn't agree to it. I mean, maybe we could do an exhibition for fun. I know a lot of people wanted to pay for the sparring, so they wanted to pay. Yeah, so there's there's comments like, oh that they'll pay for the footage, but I mean an exhibition of friendly exhibition would and make some money off of it, you know, support our family. He's a bit why not?
Hey, you both got the right promoter to get a little out of it. On that one last thing for you, you seem to have fought with more fire and you know, maybe move going for those knockouts little bit more against guys that have gotten under you skin a little bit Sonny did, and you were having fun from the very beginning. You were taunting him a little bit in the ring, and then eventually you land a monster shop that that puts him out. Did you have that same mindset now, given that what you said about what a Strata said about you and kind of how you feel like he's disrespected you in the past.
This one's a little different, just because I know Strata he's more of a dangerous puncher than Sonny. So I gotta go in there and be a lot more, a lot more smarter I was. There is points in the in the Sunny fight that I was just walking through his bunches with the start. I can't do that, So I feel like I'm gonna be more defensive. We've been working on that as well, working on my job. So I feel like I'm gonna be a smarter fighter. But if I see that I can take him out or just you know, box him the way I did Sonny, then why not?
No tune ups? Right, it is no interesting.
I'm just here to fight big fights in and go go about my business outside the ring exactly.
Bam, congrats on all your success. Man, it's a major. But you're gonna be this is I mean, this is kind of enemy territory. Like you're like ten thousand fans, the Mexican soccer team is here. I'm guessing most of them are gonna be for him going into this fight. If you had that kind of atmosphere before, I don't think Quadras was quite like that.
Yeah, now the Quadrants since it was like such a short notice, Yeah, there wasn't many people. But I know I've been envisioning in my mind me walking out, and if I get booed, I'm already expecting that, so it's really not a big deal. I'll have my people there, I'll have my baby go there, So that's all that matters. The booze whatever, it don't really play. No factor inside the ring is at the end of the day, it's just me and him fighting. So I mean, I'm just ready. I'm excited overall. I'm ready to go.
You and everyone else. Man, it's gonna be a great event Saturday at Footprints. That man, I'm good to catch up. Man.
Thanks for your time, Yes, sir, thank you, man, appreciate it.
That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergeio Mora and Bam Rodriguez for joined the show. As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I'll see you next week.
Thank you so much. I go sleep.
