Boxing with Chris MannixMannix and Eddie Hearn discuss Subriel Matias’s homecoming title defense, Saudi Arabia’s interest in forming a boxing league, Canelo-Berlanga talks and more. #Volume
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All right, if you know that song, you could probably guess who my guest is this week. Eddie Hearn, the chairman of Mattroom Boxing, promoter of the likes of Anthony, Joshua, Boots, Ennis and Super Abbatias. For this weekend, we'll take on Leam Paroll in one hundred and forty pound title defense, and if you watched the five v five earlier this month, he is the biggest loser.
Eddie hearn Edie.
I mean it's now been two weeks. It hasn't been mentioned for a few days. Chris, I don't see why you've got to stare it back up. But you know, I actually I always try and put a positive spin on things, and I've sort of convinced myself that because we got smashed so badly, it was better than losing by a point, you.
Think, So.
That was my spin. Yeah, I don't know, there's just something I do to myself. Don't worry about it.
But yeah, it was an incredible event, but something like a fifty to one accumulator for all of those fights to go and go the other way.
But there you go.
How much of that really bothered you?
Because it was a great event and your guys did get good fights and they got paid for those fils. But how much of it really bothered you to take the l to Frank Warren?
I mean, certainly if things were like they used to be like, it would have really really badly hurt. And I think the lack of goading from Frank Warren was quite interesting. He definitely golded me a little bit, but he could have really gone in hard. But I think we're all kind of driven and focused to this bigger plan. So I was gutted to lose. I can't can't lie, you know, But all the things that you said, great event, great concept, Our fighters got great opportunities, everyone got paid very well, so you know, there was a lot of a lot of pluses amongst some heavy minuses. But you know, we look forward to doing it again. And I think it's interesting because people are like saying to me on social media, why didn't you put in boots and why didn't you put in the teas and what, because that's not really the plan. Like the plan is that we look at every fight on paper to be fifty fifty five. But there's no value in me putting in boots against one of their British welterweights or something like that. So unfortunately, you know, some can go against you. It's just basically five coin flips back to back, and I lost every one of them.
But pretty well though, I would imagine there's got to be a thought if you do it again, Like in the US, when USA basketball struggles at the Olympics every twenty years, they assemble like the new dream team. Right like this year they're doing it again. Lebron James is back playing for USA basketball. There's got to be a thought in your mind of saying it again.
Yeah, and adventures making the matchups. You know, I'll be saying to them, guys, come on, you won five nil last time. Let's this is a good fight. So but obviously they don't want to to be honest with you. You could see by the odds of those fights that we've got it right, really, but you know afterwards, I mean, there's very few people picked the five nil, so a no question.
All right, there are a few things I want to get to with you. I want to start with the reporting this week about Saudi Arabia's interest in a larger boxing league. There was some reporting in Reuter's and The New York Times about the Saudis creating a boxing league and either partnering with or buying up some major promotional companies. Under this Saudi proposal, about two hundred of the top men's box of the world would be signed and then divided into twelve weight classes and what would effectively become a global boxing league. What do you know about this plan from Saudi Arabia.
Yeah, you know.
First is interesting because obviously a lot of these types of conversations have confidentiality around them, and it was quite interesting to see, you know, various bits of information leak across media, some of which true, some of which not true. I think, you know, the the corporate position for me would be that his excellency and Saudi Arabia looking at a lot of opportunities within school. He has a great mind and a great vision around where he thinks boxing should be. Some of that can be realistic, some of that can be unrealistic without the financial backing and elements needed to make things happen. We obviously know they can make those things happen, you know, and I think a lot of the plans that they have are incredibly excited. A lot of the stuff that was discussed, which I can't go too deeply into, you know, involves a lot of work, a lot of work, But if anybody could make it happen, it's probably Turkilla Shake and Saudi Arabia so this is a you know, although the concept might be new, the rolling up of the industry has been discussed for many years, you know, and I think the problem in the past was there's been no middle guy. There's been no orchestrator. It's always been maybe me or maybe another promotional company. And then when you go and you know, talk to Bob Arom about rolling up top rank of matrim and joining forces and like, you know, sometimes that doesn't go down very well. And everybody's got their own individual position as a business. You know, some people are in trouble, some people are thriving, some people are corporately owned, some people are family owned. So you know, I think again a lot of what you saw was incorrect, but you know, they definitely have a vision to do exciting things in the sport.
One of the challenges I would imagine is how do you balance, you know, putting on these great cards with big name in their prime fighters with developmental developmenting fighters Before Anthony Joshua was Anthony Joshua, he was, you know, fighting lower level guys. To get to that point, you can say the same. You know, you've got young guys, You've got Raye Ford from the ground to the floor up.
No, that would definitely have to you know, I don't think any concept like this wouldn't just be that is now boxing. You know, boxing would still exist on many different levels. But that could be the coup de grass, you know, that could be the Olympics, the Champions League, whatever it is.
But you have to keep building those stars.
You can't just find fighters for a concept and forget about bringing them through.
So no, absolutely, you.
Know this is this would not be the just the only focus of any promotional company, you know. I believe shows would definitely still exist under those banners and bring talent through.
It's very important.
So I mentioned Anthony Joshua, who is set to return in September, and you've had a couple of weeks now to process who is out there for opponents. Daniel Dubois look like the front runner to face AJ after that big win over Philipergovich. Do you see Dubois still as the front runner to land that fight.
Yeah, I mean the press ponds is on June twenty sixth, and we're tying everything up now with his excellency and those guys. I think that, you know, particularly if the IBF title is on the line, then the Daniel Dubois fight becomes a very big fight. You know, it's two Brits fighting for the world heavyweight title at Wembley. It's a dangerous fight for both men, two huge punches, two guys that are on good form. You know. AJ's what four wins now in after the Oustic defeat, and Dubois now two wins in and a great win against Hergovic last time.
So there are options.
But certainly if the IBF title was on the line, I think Dubois, I said before, would be the front runner.
One of the guys that's not an option now or probably ever is Deontay Wilder, who lost that fight to jay Lee Jong. We didn't hear from Deontay after that loss. Have you spoken to him at all in the aftermath of that Young defeat.
No, briefly in the ring.
You know, It's difficult because obviously I don't have the relationship with him to try and comfort him at that time. You know, I think when I went into the ring after the fight, he was very angry, angry because I think he felt that there was a little trip before and you know, but ultimately probably angry with his performance and frustrated.
You know. You saw you know, in the AJ defeat to Usick as well.
These guys they trained very hard, you know, they and they trained to win, but they trained to perform. And if they underperform or they can't quite deliver what they think that, you know, or how they how they've looked in training, they get incredibly frustrated. And I felt a bit of that from wild you know, And when I spoke to Malig Scott the next morning, there was a little bit of like, can we you know, we really believed, you know, we really felt good in training, you know, we felt like we were back, and we really weren't, you know. And I think he's got you know, people keep saying to me, you know, do you think he should retire?
Now?
I mean that's such an individually specific question that no one should really answer me. I know, we're already to give our opinion. But it all really depends on what level you want to box at. Like deonce, Wilder could carry on for another three years, but not at elite level at the moment, you know, so and people wrote off AJ after the U Sick defeat, and like, you know, even when he boxed Franklin oh, he's not the same fighter anymore. Well, then all of a sudden he finds his groove again, he finds the right trainer, and apparently now he's more dangerous than ever. You know, So who knows if that's possible to even get back as deonta worlder, But certainly the performances against Parker, and particularly the performance against Zang would say that, you know, he's not the fighter that he once was.
The Aja fight certainly looks like it's it's never going to happen. If if it doesn't happen, would that rank atop the list of biggest disappointments in your promotional career? We've had fights not happen in the past, but two guys in the heavyweight division who would have put together such a great fight it not happen.
How disappointing would that be?
Yeah, I don't really look back like that, to be honest, because there's so much going on and now when I look at AJ's career, he's done so much. So, you know, from the Klitschko fight to you know, the two Wembley Stadium fights, the two Millennium Stadium fights, and even the loss to Ruiz, you know, and then going out and defeating him again and then coming back like even again the losses to Usik, and then coming back and being on this incredible run.
But our story is ongoing.
So if AJ goes out and you know, beats Dubois to become a three time world heavyweight champion and then fights the winner of Fury Usick and becomes undisputed, we would never look back and say.
Ah, damn, it's you know, we didn't.
Get the world a fight. But yeah, of course, like it would have been an incredible fight. And you know, we signed for that fight a couple of times, particularly a year you know, or nearly a year ago, but unfortunately got beat.
But yeah, I think that bad timing. You know.
I think if his excellency was around maybe three years ago, I think that fight would have one hundred percent got made. But what he's doing very well at the moment is he's kind of, you know, as I said, being that middleman, that orchestrator to do individual deals with both parties so that you don't have to deal with the other party, you know, and it's so much simpler that way.
When the relationship's not great. In all honesty, I.
Gotta ask you about Canelo Alvarez. You represent edgar Berlanga, who has been billed as the front runner to face Canelo this fall. There's also the matter of William Skull, who I refer to as twenty twenty four.
As Avne Yilderum.
There was a purse bid ordered by the IBF recently has been pushed backed a couple of times. Now, what do you know about Canelo's plans for the fall?
Not a great deal.
I mean, I think his excellency definitely has an appetite. You know, he's made it clear to Crawford against Canelo, but I think that would involve another fight obviously before then, So whether that's in Saudi Arabia, whether that's back in the US. He's got a bit of an issue at the moment because he's got the Skull mandatory, he's got the Balanga mandatory, and although really if he lost belts at this stage, he does it really matter. Well, it matters to some people, and I think it might matter to his excellency in terms of making Canelo against Crawford, because that would be Crawford attempting to become a three time three division undisputed world champion. Which would add a large commercial interest to the fight. So you've got a couple of options in this situation. You go to williams Skull and you say, listen, mate, with no due respect, I can't get anyone to pay for our fight.
So he is a few quid.
Why don't you go and have a nice fight somewhere, enjoy yourself and probably around the spring of next year it might become vacant, or I might fight you by them and William Skull can take that, or William Skull can say no, I want to be a world champion. Now, get Canelo Alvarez to vacate, and then William Skull fight's somebody for nothing and could become suit middleweight world champion. So I believe he's with the PBC Skull so a lot now will depend on how involved the PBC are in Canello's next move. You know, Chris, this is a game of chess. So you know, if you're part of that plan, you want to help and you find a solution.
If you're not, you.
Put the pressure on Canelo Alvarez to take the Skull fight. But again, like the Skull fight, I mean, you know, and look, Canelo is a big favorite against Berlang Girl noted, but that's a big fight. You know, it's Mexico against Puerto Rico. Everyone knows Edgar can fight. Turns up, he looks the part. It's going to give you a war. So I think that Edgar is probably the front runner for September, wherever that may be. But you know, I guess there's a lot of conversations going on right now. Does the Crawford Canelo fight even get made? And you know, with all due respect to Crawford, he does it have to get past Israel Madromov. And I know Madromov is an underdog, but he's very heavy handed and those guys are extremely confident going into that fight.
So do you think there's any timeline for a Canelo decision here, because we're in mid June, and usually if you're going to make a Berlanga fight, you'd probably like to make it early next month.
You can even before.
Yeah, I think no end of this month, you know, I think, you know, we we have not We've spoken to his excellency about the potential of Edgar Blanga being available, which of course the answer is yes, but we've had no deep negotiations on that so if it is going to be berlangor I guess we'll hear in the next week or two.
You think it's more likely that Canelo Berlanga fight lands in Saudi Arabia or in the US.
I don't know, you know, I think all depends on the fight after, you know.
I mean, if you look at the Saudi plan of events, obviously you've got the read Season event August third in Los Angeles, the Read Season event September twenty first at Wembley. Then you've got October twelve, which is a bit old, better bit, you know, and then you've got December twenty one, which is furistic. So yeah, I think that never say never right now.
You have been trying to drag Canelo to Wembley at some point, Yeah, although Mexico versus Puerto Rico Wembley.
Doesn't quite be a bit of a waste.
Yeah. A couple of things for you. You have been dealing with the Connor Benz situation for two years now, and he has been provisionally suspended again by the British Boxing Board of Control, which I would imagine does not allow him to fight pretty much anywhere. I don't I would imagine the US would not allow him to fight the way they did last year.
What are the next steps here? Because this has.
Gone on forever and it doesn't seem like Eddie there's there needs to be some kind of hearing, right, There needs to be some kind of that's what judgment at.
The moment, that's what's happening in the moment. I think that in all honesty, like Connor Ben and I know this because I've been involved in the whole thing, he refuses to you know, probably a while ago he could have accepted a band, but when you believe you're innocent, it's very difficult to accept a band because you're actually accepting guilt really, and he's so adamant that he doesn't want to.
Accept that that.
You know, he's been to all these hearings and he's definitely elongated the situation. So right now he's in discussions with Kad. You know that You're right, there does need to be a hearing, and I think that the strategy has changed a.
Little bit to the point of we just need to deal with this now.
We're not thinking about five in July, August, September, or whatever. We're dealing with this situation but we also acknowledge that having been two years since the test, it will only be a matter of time till we can say that is a date that you can definitely fight. And the great thing about it will be that is a date that you can definitely fight in the UK, do you know what I mean? And I think that's been one of the problems is because of the board situation, we've been having.
To fight in America, etc. And you're right in what you say.
I mean, he could definitely fight in some jurisdictions right now, but we're not looking to because I've always said that if he suspended, he will not fight, and when he was cleared and the suspension was lifted, he was then able to fight, and that's what we did. Now, we're not looking to be clever. We're not looking to go to this place that place. We're dealing with the situation. We're finalizing our date for the return, and I think it's lifted his spirits a little bit to know that or later in the next I don't know, hopefully months, we will actually know a date where he can fight in the UK and that will be a massive fight and it'll go straight in.
The adjudication process for these is maddening because look, I think we'd both agreed that if you test positive for something, regardless of whether or not you intentionally put it into your body, you're responsible for it. But like the Ryan Garcia situation, could be months before that's resolved.
Like the State of Michigan had.
Caller ID for reporters that were calling about Alicia Bombgardner, like just not they still haven't responded to that positive test. Now you've got the Connor Bent situation, which was again almost two years ago, Like why why are these processes? And maybe you don't know the answer to this, but why are these processes that it takes so long to adjudication.
Yeah, So the problem is, in my opinion, there's too many independent bodies. So you've got the commission ultimately the commissions of the ones that are going to rule in all disciplinary scenarios. Right, the problem is that the commissions aren't actually doing the testing, and there's no structured ban or procedure really in relation to an adverse finding. So if you think about it, we are we the promoters are employing the testing agencies to test, and then that goes when there's an adverse finding that goes to the commission.
The commissioner had nothing to do with it.
They didn't they didn't employ it, or they didn't instruct Varda to test on their behalf. So then all of a sudden, all this information lands on their desk and they're like, oh my god, we've got to deal with this now. We weren't even involved in this process, do you know what I mean? But the only way around that is if they want to instruct it, but they don't want to do that because they don't want to pay for it because it's incredibly expensive.
So you get to a situation.
And then in Connor Ben's case, throughout that whole fight, UKad, which are the British Boxing Border Controls sort of licensed testing agency and acknowledged agency, tested Conna Bend I know, four or five times, and so did Varda. He had an adverse finding on his VARDA, but all around that day he was negative in his UKad. So and remember the situation with Billy Joe Saunders where he failed at VARDA and the board turned around and said, well, we don't acknowledge Varda. He passed all his YUKAD ones. So that's what we're going with they didn't do that with a connaband situation, and I think they're right not to. I don't think you should just ignore more a VARDA test, but there's just no structure to any rulings. That's the problem. And now the Ryan Garcia thing, it's going to be really interesting. I keep saying, you know, I hope that Ryan Garcia didn't intentionally cheat, but he still had performance in ancwing drugs, not in the build up to the fight in the ring in his system against Devin Haney, and Devin Haney's took a lot of punishment that night, you know, So that's got to be dealt with him, you know.
On the Ryan.
Situation, I just I just feel like I just cannot believe someone's not grabbing old of him m from his team, from his promotional company, from his family. Like it's just a wild world that we live in that you can just pretend that the way he's behaving is absolutely fine, you know. And the madness of the Devin Haney fighter is is.
I was around him for that Devin Haney fighter.
I told everybody, and everybody that was around him, you sat next to it, like he was not behaving normally, and then after the fight said that it's all a complete front, it's all a joke, and everyone went wow, like, how did he do that?
This guy? What what a mastermind? And six weeks later he's behaving exactly the same way.
Yeah, I mean, you know, if that was if he was my friend, Oh, go straight, I'll drive straight round his house, I'll take his phone off him and I'll drive somewhere for a couple of weeks and just chill out, you know what I mean, Try and find some peace, try and get some help, try and because it ain't gonna end well, you know, and this is an accident waiting's happened, in my opinion.
Yeah, there there has been some acknowledgement finally from his team about what Ryan's going through in the aftermath of that arrest. But he's still kind of out there on social media sounding but he's.
Not really the after math of the arrest. It's been going on for four months.
Yeah, well I agree, I agree.
So what does it take for someone to actually do something rather than just say yes, yes, when's the next Viking?
In my commission, I completely agree with that. So, while the Ryan situation is being dealt with, Devin's got this mandatory out there with Sando Martine. Are you involved in that at all?
I spoke to him last night actually because obviously I think he probably wants to find out if we did it next week.
You know, I think he's of course he does.
Yeah, I think I think I.
Think he's in a He's in a good spot, but he's in a little bit of a tricky spot. And this is where you've got to be really clever, and this is where you need the right strategy and the right advice, you know. I mean, my advice to Devin Haney is to definitely fight at Sandal Martin. I feel like he wasn't he wasn't lucky to keep his WBC belt because of everything that happened. But you know, if Ryan made way and you know, everything else, he would no longer be WBC World Champion.
So he is.
That has a value to it. That can open up big unification fights as well, and sand Or Martin. You know, I think the perception of it, that's a tricky fight to come back to, yes, but it's not a dangerous fight to come back to, you know. I mean, if if Devin wanted, he could fight suberal Matias. If he wins this weekend, now that's not a fight. In my opinion, you want to come back to having had a real tough physical fight against Ryan Garcia. But I think he beats your mind and I think he's technically too good for him and you know so. But he's used to making a lot of money.
I know, you know.
I'm sure both were disappointed with their numbers for you know that their check for the last one. Because people just bluff people and get in their head about how much money they're going to make in a fight. So this one is going to bring you back down to reality. But that's okay. It's a job and sometimes you've got to deal with the job and get the job done. So my advice is to actually take the fight. But you've got to be careful. There's a lot of sharks out there.
So when he asked you if you were going to bid, you said what.
I actually said, yeah, might do. That was my refler.
The first bid is next week?
Is that Thursday? Is it Tuesday or Thursday?
You know exactly what it is. You know exactly what it is thing for you.
We are in Puerto Rico and I didn't get a notification Eddie about your fight day five K Was it a was it a walk in one hundred degree Puerto Rican?
Yeah, I played this soccer tournament last week, which is the worst idea I ever had, and I'm still struggling to walk from it, to be honest with you. But it's hot out here, and it's going to be hot in there in Minati on Saturday night. You know, we're gonna have ten thousand in there. And I like the fight, you know, I really do. I mean, don't get me wrong. Look Soubrio is. You know, I think the perception of him is he's the boogey man. He's a danger man, you know, but Liam can really fight, and I like I like Liam's style in this fight quite like his composure. You know, I don't think he's going to go in there and like lose his shape and lose his mind, but he's going to have to take a lot of punishment, Like there's no two ways about it. Yeah, the pace that Mattias fights at is frightening, and he's going to come out and he's going to start trading from the first round and he you know, he just makes you fight. And Liam has to find a way to get through those, you know, to battle it out in the trenches, and you know, can he stop him?
I don't know. I mean the pace, He's going to be red hot, and there is the pressure.
I know that Matthias has boxed ten times in Porto Rico, etcetera, but never like this, never as world champion, never with ten thousand people, never with the eyes of the world watching.
So it's going to be interesting. But I'm looking forward to seeing Matias up close.
You know, I've watched him on TV for a long time fan, and you know, if he comes through in devastating style, it gives us the opportunity to stand up and call out too.
Pitbull cruise, I.
Mean, imagine Pitbull Cruise against super Real Matias, you know, or even Tafemo against super He's a huge fight.
So there's a lot to play for.
On set today, when you signed Boots Senners, you talked about his pound for pound type talent, generational talent, the next big thing. Mattias is not that guy.
I mean.
I was talking to Jupanda, his trainer, who works with a lot of great fighters, Williams among others, and what things he was telling me was like he makes a lot of mistakes in there. This footwork isn't great, his technique isn't great, but he's just relentless. Like his pressure like what is a ceiling for a guy like that?
He's just you know, it's going to take someone very, very good and skilled to beat him. And you've got to be able to punch as well, you know, like Ti Femo is a tough fight for Subrial my tears because Teo has got great feet, he's got great movement.
You know, he's a sharp puncher.
So you I think at the elite level of the sport, you can't just be relentless like it's not you're going to get beat by a well scored, well seasoned fighter. And I think Sabrill has more than than just that. But you know, he's he might not be as skilled as a te O or certainly a Jaron Ennis or those kind of guys, but he will attempt to break you, and you've got to come through. I said, you know, with you and Sergio yesterday, you've got to be tough enough to take the hammer from Subrille Like you can't. You're just you're just not going to out box him off the back foot for twelve rounds. You're going to get hurt and you're going to have to ride the storm. But it's the ones that are tough enough, who have the skill that you know, they're the guys. And with Liam, if Liam can take the hammer, it's going to be a very very competitive fight on Saturday. But because of all those things that you said, he does get here, and you know, every fight's excited, like even this fight on Saturday. It's not going to be like one round two. Liam's going to have success in this fight, but it's just whether he gets overrun and he's just he's just so exciting to watch. You know, We've got two guys here in June and July, and our two most recent spig sign is really a Matias and Jeron Ennis. No, we have nearly ten thousand in Minati and we've already done with Throe eleven. Now in Philadelphia, we'll have fifteen thousand in Delphia. You know, there's there's a thing about bringing fighters to their hometown. I mean, I'd love to call myself a genius, but let's be honest. It's not rocket sci answers it. Wow, man, how does it take so long, Boots Tennis. He's from Philadelphia, great fight city. Let's take him to la I mean, what planet do these people live on?
And see what we did there.
We went from the start calling you a loser to the end of genius.
Look at that full turn.
It's just a moment. It just it just depends how long it takes for me to spin it.
Just you just spot it right.
This Saturday night in Menite, Puerto Rico, superal Matias, Liam Pire one hundred and forty pound title on the line, Must see TV, No question about Eddie.
I appreciate the time man. Thanks for joining me.
Chris say the way.
That's it for this week's episode. By thanks to Eddie Hearn for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see you next week.
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